Sony does make compact primes. They have the line of f2.5 G lenses, i think they come in 24mm, 40mm, 50mm. And then sigma also have the I line which is their compact primes for FF emount.
I agree. I'm getting just because I prefer rangefinder over slr. As annoying as everyone claims the evf is, the one on the original a7c was preferable to the one on the A7iv to me. The form factor trumps everything, it's more comfortable to not have to smash my face into the camera body and also maintain environmental awareness by having my other eye open and looking around.
Totally agree that Sony needs to roll out high-end f1.8 or f2 lenses. The 20mm sets the bar. Would love to see a 28mm f1.8 G, made as compact as possible. Would turn the a7c into a Q3. 35mm and 50mm f1.8 G would be great too, but 28 would be my vote.
Absolutely! The 28 f/2 is sensibly small but just meh with the proliferation of 1.8/1.4 primes from Sony and the newer Chinese companies. I gather that it's not a popular focal length for manufacture because 24 is pretty close and has more appeal as a standalone prime since many zooms cover 28 and 24 conveniently becomes 35 on APS-C.
Your comment about the A7C’s shutter noise, turns out there’s a speaker that adds noise. If you cover the speaker holes on the top logo side of the camera it’s way quieter and sounds much better.
Thank you for an unbiased review . I would have bought the A7CR without hesitation IF the viewfinder was better . This kills it for me as a glasses user. I totally agree with you that these cameras or at least the A7CR should be more “pro” with an outstanding viewfinder
The EVF is in actual fact considerably better than the previous A7C so I would suggest you check out the camera in person before deciding to write off because of the viewfinder
I purchased the A7CR, and I was so excited about its size and capabilities...BUT...the EVF was HORRIBLE, horrible, horrible. I just could not stand it, and ended up selling it. There's no excuse in 2023/2024 that Sony couldn't have put in a better EVF.
I disagree about the modular EVF, I had them for several m4/3 cameras and ended up never using them. I would definitely appreciate an upgrade on the a7cii but I want it right where it is now. Additionally it would place it in the center of the camera, which would negate the form factor, I love the a7c precisely because it's a "rangefinder" style body. My right eye is super weak, and I don't like mashing my face into my thumb with a SLR style one. That's one upgrade I was really hoping for, so I'm a bit bummed it didn't arrive, but otherwise I am very excited about the step up the mark ii is over my a7c. As an aside it looks so good with that little voigtlander on there. Can't wait to do that with the silver version.
I thought they do have smaller lenses. Firstly you have the 35mm F1.8 (Which is an amazing lens), and then you have the G lenses (24mm, 40mm and 50mm). You also have the 50mm F1.8 and the 85mm F1.8 which are also pretty light. I am looking at these and thinking they are a great option as a backup/second body. I do wish they had the new tilt and flip screen though.
IMO your spot on about size. Personally I am looking for something compact that can also be versatile. One day I might want to be stealthy for street photography and the next have a long lens for portraits.
I wouldn't buy these cameras because of the lower price, but because of the form factor and the compact size. I currently use two Panasonic GX8 bodies. Same form factor, although they are actually somewhat larger. However, the GX8, in spite of being 7 years old, has a viewfinder with the same resolution as these new Sonys but higher magnification (0.77x vs. 0.7x). I do like the button layout of the Panasonic better, but could probably get used to the Sony in that area. But that viewfinder is a deal breaker for me. If I buy a new camera, I would expect the viewfinder to be better, not worse.
Sony have the f/2.5 G series compact prime lenses which are pretty great. They would pair great with these new bodies. That 40mm f/2.5 G lens is one of my favorites lenses, even over my G Masters.
i have the sony 50mm f2.5, its like the perfect match! my goodness, not sure if other people have this combo. so small. i usually don't need wide open as everything is just too soft and mushy for normal photos. f2.5 is actually the sweetspot! you can still get separation.
While I agree with you in "the C series should also be top-range", I think at least some of the models should be more affordable than the full-sized-original and the full-featured-C models. Currently, I'm happy the C models are significantly cheaper than the full-sized ones they're derived from. And the sacrifices (EVF, single SD card, lack of 8k) aren't that big an issue - at least for me.
If you want tactile F2 primes, Sigma has some incredible lenses for sale. The challenge with an optional EVF instead of built-in is that it handicaps flash use.
Literally the one feature I use the most on the a7C original is moving the focal point, then dialing it in with the manual rings on my lens. A joystick for this work would be awesome. ngl, I'm kinda a fanboy of the form factor, so I hope to own both very soon. That being said, I think the II will be my first grab. Thanks for the info and your thoughts!
LOL - I'm guessing that I'll eventually get both myself. Seems crazy to even consider. I have the original A7C too, so I may sell it to help with that. The original was less than magical - certainly felt the compromise from the A7III but the form factor is the kill app - especially as I age. I don't even want to bring my heavy good glass with me - preferring the travel-friendly "good enough" compact lenses.
@theartofphotography I am in love with the idea of the A7CR for an amateur, do-it-all, high res camera. I actually recently pre-ordered it. I do have a question though! I am very interested in both travel photography, documentary/family, and nighttime landscapes. Do I lose anything (A7CR vs. A7RV) besides the beautiful LCD for nighttime / astro landscapes? I know people will say the CII and RIV will have better lowlight at the expense of mpg but it doesn't sound like that big of a compromise. The A7RV can be purchased new for just a couple hundred more than the A7CR from some vendors. Given the price difference is so narrow, should I be looking at the A7RV for my needs? I love the small size and really think it is a great 2-1 camera. Take the grip off, throw on a compact G prime and walk around with friends/family. Put a 24mm 1.4 or the new 16-35mm on it and it becomes a pro-level landscape camera. Appreciate any and all feedback!
The perfect lenses for these a7c's are the a Sigma i- series primes which are Small but very high quality and at lower coat. I think the EVF is very important especially when shooting street in bright sunlight. I use my EVF to check images after shoot when the back of the LCD gets washed out. EVF is key. Sad they didn't make it better than the a6xxx line but less than the full sized a7 line so as to not hurt sales of the bigger full frame cameras. Work out a deal with the evf mfg to get a better price. Don't skimp on the stuff that is used all the time. Yes you can use the lid like a phone but if you just want an lcd experience then you'll just use a cell phone not a real camera to take pix. If you paid $ to take pix with a real camera then an evf is a vital important thing for sure.
My biggest gripes are :no tilting rear panel (not a video guy), no joystick, the materials could be better as touch points, and the EVF…. I like the concept of this line, but Sony neglects their photo customers by not going all out with the ergo ice and aesthetics of the more photo centric bodies. If you’re a video guy they put more effort in. I just feel that with the prospect of more people migrating from film bodies, they could’ve capitalized by not making this just a leftover parts bin line, but something made with intention. They make amazing featured cameras, but they don’t approach camera design with the user in mind first. This really shouldn’t be a “budget” option. It should just be a different form factor.
I completely agree. A compact camera makes the most sense, if you can use matching compact (fast) lenses. For budget reasons, I'm using a Panasonic Lumix GX8, and I'm not about to change that, because the micro 4/3 lens lineup, I have access to, is both compact, fast and simply too good for the money to get rid of. If Panasonic ever came out with a GX9 II, I'd upgrade to that - unless it turned out to be dud, but for me the Sony A7C series of cameras will remain a camera lineup to watch UA-cam videos about, but not own myself.
They actually have come out with a GX-9, also called a GX7mk3 in Japan market... but their product line is a bit confusing, I think the GX-9 is more like a GX850 followup than a GX8 followup. For me ... I want to love the GX8/9 but it can't compete with the full frame sensor in the same form factor. It was a night and day difference stepping up to A7C from my m43 bodies (G85, EM5ii, GF2, Air A01)
Oops - I missed that you actually said GX-9 "ii". I think a hypothetical GX9mk2 would have to be very affordable or come with a massive pixel density increase for me to consider it.
Disagree about the EVF. If you want a big center mount EVF go with the A7RV. Add on EVF would essentially be the same... I do like your take on the smaller f2 lenses... Intrested on your take on the 35/2 Loxia. Thanks again!
I could not agree more. What astonishes me is that Sony provides the technology required for not just most of the DSLR market but also most medium format cameras and yet they could dominate this market if they so wished - but instead produce humdrm middle of the road cameras which are not built terribly well.
You could be waiting a while because last we heard from zeiss (full frame lenses) was in 2018. The rx1r camera was always about the sonnar 35 f2. Just like the q3 around the summilux 1.7.
I loved the rx1r ii- except that x battery was absolutely horrendous. I had to keep at least 3/4 of them with me if I wanted to do a modest days travel.
It’s great to see the Loxia lens in use on this. Really curious to know your experience with it on the CR. I’m with you in that this is the most intriguing of the two for my uses. Regarding other lenses I do think the Sony G-lenses, the 24mm, 40mm and 50mm would be a natural fit. I have owned the 50G and found it incredibly competent both in utility and resolution on the a7riii and a7riv. Maybe Sony will produce 28mm and 85mm versions of this family?! Like you the lack of EVF magnification really hurts for me personally - I wear glasses all of time, so that small and narrow EVF pushes my eye way back, and I just prefer to frame that way but can’t say it’s a complete dealbreaker. Thank you for the thoroughness and thoughtfulness as always!
The cameras we have today are a hundred times better than the ones top photographers had to work with in the last century. That's why I don't understand all those people whining about that view finder. Ridiculous. Stop crying and just start taking pictures.
So glad to see a creator that cares about the elements of photography that matter to us. These companies have all the money in the world. We should be forcing them to meet our needs tbh. I would have an A7CR if the EVF was solid
The EVF’s with higher( and larger ) pixels are also heavier. If you look at not only Sony this is what I see from Fujifilm as well. One item that does help is to select the large icon option on Fuji, this makes reading your settings much easier. I do not have a large icon option on my existing Sony and not sure if the Sony a7cr has the feature. I like to keep my eye in the viewfinder and any enhancement is welcomed. But the issue with the Sony “ C “ is to keep it compact and light, keeping the body weight around 1.1 lbs. in the A7cr. that is pretty light relative to mailer mirrorless aps-c cameras. We will see how the smaller compact cameras evolve because the full frame lenses are HEAVIER AND LARGER. The other issue in favor of full frame is resolution and that is a question for the owner to decide what is acceptable in terms of image quality. I like the a7cr but not sure about the ergonomics when loaded with a zoom lens. Seems counterintuitive to add a grip to a compact camera…it rather defeats the whole “compact” strategy. Personally I need auto focus because my eyes cannot do manual focus. To your point I too would pay more for a .5” EVF with better resolution.
I'm with you on the joystick. No matter how good a company's AF system is, I still want to precisely place an AF point, and not use a touch screen to do it. The A7R III(a) is getting a bit long in the tooth, but I still think it's a bit of a sweet spot in the lineup in terms of features, resolution, etc. I intend to hold on to mine for a while.
Still using the original A7R3, as well. The only reasons I'd see to get a newer body would be AF improvements, better IBIS and focus stacking, but I don't actually need any of these features, and the A7R3 still has the best battery life (I think?) and better high ISO and dynamic range.
@@SuperTonda1 Mine is set to control a bunch of other stuff. I like having the joystick, it's useful and gives extra manual control. Using the control wheel for focus would give me less options. To each their own, but I find it helps the camera get less in the way.
@@wandererstraining okay I get that~ I also use that for extra functions. But isn’t there a way to program to press button in the middle and then move the focus area and keeping the other functions that way?
I agree. If SONY ever came out with a compact premium line, it would be an instant success. That said, the 'new' sub-standard EVF and LCD at the current price point in 2023/24 is inexcusable.
Coming from the RX1RMk2 to the A7C, I had not the biggest issue with the viewfinder. everything a tad better than in the original A7C will do for me :) I think its time to say goodbye to my A7C and my Sigma FPL with all Lenses to get the A7Cr. Will be. a great companion to my Q3 I guess :)
Great review, thanks! Agree with the smaller footprint should not always equal smaller price point argument. The ACRII is such a compelling platform for hiking/landscape… BUT, like yourself, the EVF & LCD factor in greatly to my personal happy factor when using the A7iv. Coming from a Z6ii, I still enjoyed the user experience more because of how thinks looked while shooting (though I’d never trade the AF, glass, or customization :D). Thanks again!
Not related to the A7C line but to Z6 II and A7IV: So you liked the EVF and LCD on the Z6 II more but prefer AF, glass and customization of the Sony? Would love to hear from your experience with those two cameras!
@@CopyRightOC Yes… I originally bought the Z6ii because it ticked off enough boxes and the screen/experience of the A7III at that time was miserable. I rented the A7iii, EOS RP, and a couple others, in the end I loved the image quality and user interface of the Z6ii better. After using the Z6ii for a year, though the CAF/Eye AF got quite a bit better (FW 2.0), the reliability was still not where I needed it and I was having a hard time finding the glass I wanted at a cost-effective price for me personally. We have 6 kids that all do photography so I need a more affordable eco-system than others.. came down to Canon RF bodies and EF Glass, or Sony. When the A7iv dropped I still was not overly impressed with the LCD/EVF resolutions but they were better than the A7iii and good enough, though not amazing like the Z6ii (which isn’t close to the X-H2, A1, etc.). The Tamron/Sigma glass for the E-Mount has been fantastic. The Sony ergonomics are still not my favorite, but there is little the A7iv has not been able to do for me… just a great all-rounder with exceptionally reliable AF, customization, and lens eco-system. Hope that helps some! The A7iv colors are also very close now to a blend of Canon/Nikon. Nikon and Fuji still produce my favorite colors and I’m seriously looking into the Fuji Eco-System as well… it’s just their ISO / Low-light performance that keeps me Sony at the moment. Edit: Concerning Customization, there is almost zero barriers to customizing the A7IV’s buttons/dials etc. I love the unmarked dial on top (normally exp comp), I have it slaved to Aperature… I almost never need to look at the menus. Speaking of which, the menu structure is now every bit as refined as Nikon… I still prefer Canons, but Sony is 2nd. With the My Menus (6 pages) you can store every setting you quickly want to find in any order, it’s a great and very user-friendly eco-system now (even if the verbiage is still a bit head-scratching). The camera ergs are not as good as Nikon or Canon… just doesn’t feel as “right” in the hand, but it gets better every day with muscle memory.
No one ever mentions the drawbacks of the flash sync speed and that hss is basically unusable due to the lack of a fully mechanical front curtain. The a7c has a max sync speed of 160 😢 I wish it would hit at least 250 like the a7iv. I am a wedding photographer and I use the a7c ii as my family/personal camera but I do like to play with flash for some nice family portraits. Wish I had a higher sync speed but hey, other than that the image quality is exceptional and the button layout is very well designed. The camera is almost perfect for me…
I am not in the market for this camera, but I like its size. Especially, because I already own 2 Zeiss Batis lenses. That said, I do want Nikon to really deliver with their coming Zf. I want something really retro, with F3 build quality and durability. That is what I want and would buy.
Me to. ZF is rumored to have 1/8000s mechanical shutter, 3,96mln dots EVF with 0.80x magn.!, better and bigger LCD, probably 1/250s flash, high res mode, WR, and it will be cheaper... the only question is sensor - 24mp or 45mp? there are some reports ZF is are tested in these two versions...
From the comments here and elsewhere, I see an unmet market need for EVF improvements. Not just bigger and brighter, but also more flexible. Not all photographs are taken while the photographer looks straight through the EVF. An unshielded tilty-flippy rear screen might be great for low-viewpoint shots but the screen image is tiny and can be washed out by ambient light. Using a tripod raises a whole new range of issues. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I have a gut feeling that we are getting closer to a great rethink of how EVF images are presented to the camera user. I took notice when you mentioned, in passing, that a modular viewfinder might be nice. This might make it easier for camera manufacturers to try out new customizations for a more diverse market. In the 1960's, I remember (but couldn't even remotely afford) high-end cameras where you looked down from the top at a ground-glass screen. I remember complex mechanical arrangements where you could tilt all the way between inline and straight down. A big enabling technology for modular tiltable EVFs would be to use a flexible electronic connection to replace all those mirrors and prisms in the old design. I don't expect to see any of this soon, but I keep hoping.
Yep I completely agree, if the EVF was just a little bigger and we had a joystick on this body, It would be my next purchase. And would probably replace my X-Pro2. It's so close to being the perfect FF rangefinder style camera.
Great unbiased review as I am looking for a travel camera in a rangefinder style body. Unfortunately, I agree with the comment that Sony has missed the mark on the most glaring flaw of the A7c which is the viewfinder on both these camera bodies. Now let's see what Fujifilm releases at their next A-Summit on September 12th in Stockholm (X-Pro 4 ? ).
Thank you for your review! I got my Sony A7c for two years ago and use on a daily basis. Using Voigtländer Nokton classic 35 mm for stills, done exhibitions with it. Done a few documentaries using Sony lenses, a great camera for being unnoticed. I really have it´s place in my workflow. Have been looking forward for an upgrade!
Hi @mikaelsilkeberg9734, I too use manual Voigltänder lenses on Sony, and I have been wondering about these c series, but have been sceptical both because of supposedly subpar EVF (particularly relevant for manual focus, in my view) and because of lack of fully mechanical shutter (and artefacts related to electronic ones). I currently use 7siii for both video and photography, doing documentary work, and love both EVF and shutter of that camera; but always wonder whether I would be just fine with a7c (or a7cii now) to leave the very expensive a7siii home when around in the field. Have you ever felt limited by the EFC shutter in your a7c? If I may ask, thanks.
Hi@@lovicios, I have to say I feel the opposite. The camera get zero attention and have all the features I need, great battery life. I have never experience any artifacts with the mechanical shutter shooting stills. Its a little bit load shooting wedding in church. A7c has 8 bit in clog and for better grading A7c2 have 10 bit and some more features for video. The problem I had in the past with Sony is that they can take the daily use. The get wrecked. The Sony A7c on the other hand still looks great after using hard for two years.
I'll have to actually handle the camera, mainly so I can see if the slight improvement in the EVF makes it a camera I can live with. I had the A7C and sold it after a few months because I just could not live with that EVF.
Yes I agree! I wanted the FORM FACTOR not the cheaper price when I bought my two A7C cameras. I totally would have paid more to get better EVF and higher resolution! I upgraded from a Sony APSC camera that had a HIGHER magnification EVF than my A7C! 🤨
I think on first look that Sony has a great camera in the A7C-II. That said, I would add to the wish list a second card slot, and a better EVF. I'm not a hybrid shooter so video specs don't excite me. If I can get 1080 at 120 I'm happy. I am confused why Sony hasn't made any changes to their fps rate of 10 or less. They've made so many advances in autofocus and subject tracking that it seems as though raising the fps to something closer to 15 would have been made a reality by now. I currently shoot Canon, but Sony has been peaking my interest for some time. Just a few key features and I'll be switching!
1/4000 max shutter speed is a big letdown. Also, I hate that these cameras don’t have a joystick for focusing. I love the form factor and had the A7C, but got rid of it because of these two issues.
What you are asking is present in the A7R line up. If you want the same in a smaller form factor, you'll canibalize the A7R's. To the contrary, I wish they would go the opposite side and drop down the prices, by that I mean drop the video completely and simplify the AF and the menus, but as you said give a true viewfinder and a fuji XT-5 style ergonomic and back screen .
I’m in the same camp as many other commenters here. I sold my A7C and three great Sony lenses to spend more than twice as much on a used Q2. I want compact form factor and good design without compromising features.
Great points. I wish manufacturers would make more models without the center EVF placement, but with great quality EVFs. I've about had it with smashing my nose against my cameras with my head at an odd tilt and angle, as if the lens needed a direct path through some vestigial prism.
I've been saying how much I would love an external EVF option for the ZV-E1, I love my A1 but at times, I prefer the ZV-E1, yes... even for photography, that thing is amazing in low light! But NOT having an EVF makes it hard to use at times, so yeah... external EVF for selected bodies would be great!
$2,200 and $3k are not low price point - they should have the features you mentioned at those prices, especially a better EVF and back LCD. Also not a huge fan of the fully articulating screen on this model - they should have used the design and screen from the A7R iv. If you want a fully articulating screen, get an A7IV or ZV-E1 - keep the A7C for the mostly stills crowd.
Great review as always. I wear glasses so the EVF's of any camera would make me jump for joy. I got the A7cr to be a little brother to my A7r5. So i know it doesn't have all the bell and whistles of it's big brother but the thing they share are amazing. Thing like, flawless auto focusing, the 60 mp sensor, pixel shifting to give you 240 mp. I love the A7cr, it live upto what it was made for.
An excellent thought-provoking video about the Sony A7C II. Sony seem to be somewhat conflicted about what the compact range of the A7 series is supposed to be about. Is it a budget variant of the A7 range or is it a distinct and smaller range finder style full frame camera from Sony. It’s clear that this camera in its second generation is not a budget camera and it seems churlish to force in some relatively inferior elements in order to give the impression that it is, when they could as you stated look to actually make this more premium. I have been strongly considering the C range of cameras, But recently invested in a third party eyecup to attach to the EVF of my A7R3 and I’ve started using the EVF for photography again with great results and a far more immersive experience. The low resolution and small EVF in the compact range is diminishing the appeal of the compact range of cameras. If Sony could address this then the compact form of the A7C would once again be an highly attractive proposition to me in the future. If Sony want to release a budget version of the ordinary A7 range of camera then they can do that by significantly stripping down features in the standard A7 in order to allow a lower price point and call it an A700 range (or whatever they want to call it.) In its current form the A7C range neither appeals to budget buyers nor professionals nor luxury buyers. There is some food for thought for Sony about what direction they should elect to take with the version three of this camera and your thoughts are exactly what Sony should be listening to and thinking about. Excellent video. 👍🏾👍🏾
Very good thoughts Ted. I concur...perhaps they could create an a7C-Pro that incorporates the articulated screen of the a7RV, a quieter shutter, the joy stick, better thermals, and the EVF of the a7RV. I would not like to see them add an external EVF unless it could be cross purposed for the FX3/FX30....Solid review Ted.
Everything you said except for me the viewfinder is fine in maintaining the compact size of the C Series, the LCD backscreen though doesn't make sense it isn't at the level (resolution) of the A7RV having such a Highres sensor and a poor viewfinder (a acceptable tradeof for some because of bodysize) in a $3000usd camera. ++ ADD THE JOYSTICK or a even better clickable mini one (A7CRII)
One of the things about the A7CR that's eyebrow-raising to me is that in super 35 crop mode it's still 24ish MP, theoretically opening up the option to use APS-C glass and get similar performance to their 6000-series. That brings smaller lenses while still leaving the option to hook up the big GM/ Art series FF primes as needed. Sigma has a new-ish split line of lenses (the "I" series) that are also much along the lines you described - one branch of compact-as-possible (but slower) and one of still-compact but fully-featured and fast-ish. They only get down to f/2, so maybe the adapted glass or the dedicated manual E-mount (voigtlanders et al) will still be superior.
@@MikeMarrah It's close forsure, but the a7RV read out speed in ASPC mode is still slower than the a6700 sensor. The a6700 sensor is around 15ms, and the a7rv is still at like 28 - 30 ms.
Also interesting is the fact that in M RAW on this sensor (saw this on 61Mpix A7RV tests compared to A1/A7IV/A7sIII) you get 26Mpix RAW photos (I assume extremely well downsampled internally from full 61 Mpix width sensor) with better definition (to my eye) than Sony A7IV 33Mpix RAW photos. So to me this makes this new A7CR (and A7RV) a very interesting option coming from a A7III in my case, gaining better quality file/definition with barely 2 more final Mpix so file size will be very similar but with better quality than going to a 33Mpix A7IV (of corse that camera is a different body and has it's pro's for other users/use cases and is cheaper). This to me is the ideal case, smaller file size less bloat for everyday use but as good or better definition than other alternatives (A7IV / A7CII) and when needed using full L RAW / 61Mpix ( obviously assuming quality is the same as A7RV sensor.)
Hi Ted, you are right: I like the small form factor and the rangefinder style of the 7c mark II, but I would prefer a better EVF and also a better display. Even if this would cause a higher price point. Thanks for your video and your honest opinion. Kind regards, Sven
I think they should make that EVF larger. But they probably don't want to compete with Leica's Q3, (another of their big customer of sensors), creating something with big EVF and with interchangeable lens will beat that $6k product.. and could also reduce sales for A7R V.
The Sony A7C II is very compelling for anyone that was looking at the A7IV and is willing to give up the extra card slot - so more of a hobby/travel oriented version of that A7IV and it has better AI tracking (AI chip). To me, that is extremely compelling as long as the grip is comfortable for your hands (for me, it is). There are a few other things you give up too compared to the full body, but that's expected in a compact design. The C in the A7C II mostly stands for compact since it isn't _that_ much less expensive (depending on timing and sales). The A7CR is another animal. The huge 61 MP sensor mades it less than ideal for video (same as the A7RV). The A7CR is basically a compact _and_ cheaper version of the A7RV - being somewhere between $500 and $900 cheaper than the full body. Since the A7RV has the latest Sony tech, the A7CR is mostly a downgrade (features removed) vs the full body trading that for the lower cost, but still keeping the main killer-feature - that sensor. Again, probably oriented towards the serious hobbyist/traveler vs a pro that would strongly favor dual card slots. Both are travel/hobby cameras. Today, even dSLR/mirrorless cameras are competing with smartphones, so there needs to be something _very_ compelling to make taking a camera setup with you. For example, I took a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Italy - I used my smartphone all of the time and really could have left my big camera at home. There were only a _few_ times I wish I had a real camera (indoors) - and most of the time, even those locations prohibited cameras (churches). As I get older, I really do value a lightweight setup - especially on hikes or long days of walking.
61MP is quite overkill I think, especially for street photography or travel which the compact size lends itself to. At least you can lower the RAW resolution to 26MP and can use the full resolution to crop when using image ratios like 1:1 square format or in aps-c mode. That is a (expensive) bonus over the A7C II imo.
@@joetrent4753 Anytime someone says X is enough or Y is overkill - I think of the "640K should be enough for anyone" quote. But really, it depends what you need a camera for. If I could only have one - the A7C II is a more well rounded hybrid camera, but A7CR is very compelling for landscape/photo-centric travel. You do give up some sensitivity and video options for all the megapixels.
Goodness you have alot of comments. but as a beginner. I am looking at the a7c II. I Was wondering if you were beginning and had to choose between the a7cii or the a6700, would would you?
I understand your perspective but as I own an a7rv, I want a second full frame less expensive travel camera. The a7cii fits the bill but at that price I need a better evf. I think it should’ve been leas than 2k. It’s too close to the a7iv in price. We forget the a7iv was 22-2399 when it first came out.
Thanks for the review. I find the evf on the CR to be a decent improvement over the original A7C, which I sold because it was really unusable. The compactness of the CR compensates for the lower quality vf in my opinion. I love using it with my 50mm f/1.4 lens for street shooting. Also, I didn’t feel the shutter was too loud, but I’m usually shooting in noisy environments.
Maybe one day we'll see full feature a1c or a9c with good evf, better screen, dual card slots and one of this awesome sensor - professional, small and beautiful (chrome) body.
A good review. For the people using third party manual lenses. Still get meter readings & focus peaking in EVF/ rear screen? Thank you for any replies.
Agreed. Dumbing these down is bad. I would pay for better (larger) EVF and Joystick. And i think it’s time Sony puts design templates into photographers hands before making UI choices.
From what I have heard so far, the view find has a bit higher magnification in the A7c. It sounds like it is a "modest" improvement which you would only notice if you tested it together with some of the other similar bodies (old A7c and a6600 and a6700), but it seems they are listening. Then again, they _are_ making more money on some of their other bodies, so . . . . :-)
Agree with the optional evf option. I wish sony would offer that instead of the dinky little evf on these. I had the detachable evf for canon m6 camera and it was awesome, I could have a tiny discreet camera, and if I needed to see better I could pop it on and it only got slightly larger. Do it sony!!!!
The EVF on the 2 new models have been improved from 0.59x to 0.70x same as the a6700. But yes if you think it’s still not big enough no external option now.
I already own an A1 and A7rV, I preordered the A7CR as a possible replacement for my RX1RII, I was hopping the viewfinder was at least better than that camera, still on the fence as to see when it comes in or cancel.
Hi Ted, Thank you for a great review! I am in the market for a new camera and had zeroed in on A7III, but with these 2 new releases, I'll have to re-evaluate my thinking a bit. Any suggestions? Also, I cant help but notice your watch :) Can you share the make and brand. Thanks again
Very good presentation indeed. To me evf is useful and important to use outdoor under strong tropical daylight. Sony's invention is never up to consumers ' expectation. That means we have to change gear every few years.
Also Sony made a near perfect compact full frame camera in the RX1RII which is my favorite camera. They very easily could’ve expounded on that design and built a proper rival to the Leica M for users that want the flexibility and predictability of an EVF and af lenses, but the smaller form factor and interchangeable lenses. This feels like a half measure that I’m sure they’re banking on people getting over its faults. I just don’t see this being a camera made with photographers in mind. It feels more like a crumb trail from the ZV and A6000 line to their A7 line. I don’t hate this line up, I just feel like they keep coming up short and not paying attention to what’s missing in their lineup. The CR body easily could’ve had a much better feature set to distinguish it more from the CII.
I think it'd be nifty if more camera makers made not just these lower profile grip extensions (I know canon has one for the RP/R8, not sure if anyone else does), but a sort of "extended" battery that made use of the extra 1.5 centimeters of height that's otherwise wasted with these existing grips
Small EVFs are difficult for those of us who wear glasses. When outdoors in daylight I manually focus my a7Rv using its wonderful EVF. This enable me to enjoy my Loxias and CV primes, and same when manually focusing Sony zooms. In contrast when shooting my Fuji x100v its tiny EVF forces me to rely on AF. Rather than a hot shoe EVF I'd suggest the design should have included a small bulge in the top plate to accommodate a larger EVF.
A7cr is the only camera out there with the specs and compact form at the moment. As a canon r5 shooter I would to see a canon equivalent withe the rf 16,28,35 lenses on it. But until then Sony only option. Maybe I will change the EOs r5 to a75 if Sony impresses me enough. They come along way with there ergonomics,tilting touch screens and usability. 24g and the 40g lens will be my go to the a7cr.
Sony 35 1.4 is somewhat compact. The 55 1.8 matches well. The Samyang 75 completes the set and is smaller than the 55. Not tiny but all faster than f2.
First, let say that I've ordered an A7CR. But, I have the same concerns as you. Particularly the evf. But, if Sony included all of the features found in the A7R5 in the smaller lighter cheaper A7CR, why buy the A7R5?
The @7C was on my radar but when I got one in my hand, I instantly said no! The EVF was far too small and was unusable… and the price! It’s £3,100 here… that’s not‘cheap’! Why didn’t they just build the extension grip into the body? I hope these are better… sold my @7 III and gone back to Fujifilm as I’ve bought the X-T5.
Two things would really make me take a serious look at these two camera is one a better EVF and two a new line of F2 lenses. Everything else I could live with.
How is the A7C R priced at 3k with 61 megapixels full frame sensor and excellent auto focus a low price point customer centric camera? I do like the suggestion for a modular EVF though instead of compromising the user experience by putting in a sloppy EVF. The EVF is not a big deal for me as I mainly use it for night photography and long exposure stuff. Even for other occasional use cases, I only bother with the EVF if its super bright. But I defnitely, 100% would have a loved a better quality LCD display at the back. They should not have compromised on that! But I love this camera for the price and the image quality, the 2 things which are the most critical. And it looks pretty modern too!
Re your desire for Sony to make smaller prime lenses to go with the 'C'ompact line - Is there something different you're looking for than the 3 prime lenses Sony released in early 2021 ? Those were the 24mm f2.8, and a 40mm & 50mm f2.5s - you did a video on them and really liked them. Just curious if I missed something...
Ted, “It’s Sony Release Day”. That would be a great segment in the revamp of your channel. Sony actually release enough gear for this to be “a thing” on tour chanel😊. Thank you, Peter.
Why don't Sony have an open conversation (literally live on UA-cam) about camera development with their user base? Ask the question, "tell us what you want" and then give reasons why they can and can't include specs and arrive at a camera that people are genuinely excited about and feel like they've had a hand in creating. Imagine the sense of community and loyalty that would bring. The viewfinder is a recipe for resent. Size isn't an issue, plenty of smaller cameras have superior viewfinders and it isn't price, the A7RC costs the same as a GFX50sII, nor are they having to recoup additional R&D costs because the components are inherited. Sony needs to kill and consolidate IMO. Bring coherence by offering fewer cameras that are as good as they can be. These cameras will just make it easier for me to stick with my A7IV and not lust after the shiny new thing.
Sony does make compact primes. They have the line of f2.5 G lenses, i think they come in 24mm, 40mm, 50mm. And then sigma also have the I line which is their compact primes for FF emount.
I agree. I'm getting just because I prefer rangefinder over slr. As annoying as everyone claims the evf is, the one on the original a7c was preferable to the one on the A7iv to me. The form factor trumps everything, it's more comfortable to not have to smash my face into the camera body and also maintain environmental awareness by having my other eye open and looking around.
Totally agree that Sony needs to roll out high-end f1.8 or f2 lenses. The 20mm sets the bar. Would love to see a 28mm f1.8 G, made as compact as possible. Would turn the a7c into a Q3. 35mm and 50mm f1.8 G would be great too, but 28 would be my vote.
Absolutely! The 28 f/2 is sensibly small but just meh with the proliferation of 1.8/1.4 primes from Sony and the newer Chinese companies. I gather that it's not a popular focal length for manufacture because 24 is pretty close and has more appeal as a standalone prime since many zooms cover 28 and 24 conveniently becomes 35 on APS-C.
totally. As a street photography enthusiast I want affordable but small Sony systems.
They already make fantastic slower primes in the 35/1.8, 55/1.8, 85/1.8.
35 is a must
@@BenHowlandPhoto yeah those are great lenses. would like to see them updated with the modern "G" design. Aperture rings, superior build quality, etc.
Your comment about the A7C’s shutter noise, turns out there’s a speaker that adds noise. If you cover the speaker holes on the top logo side of the camera it’s way quieter and sounds much better.
Thank you for an unbiased review . I would have bought the A7CR without hesitation IF the viewfinder was better . This kills it for me as a glasses user. I totally agree with you that these cameras or at least the A7CR should be more “pro” with an outstanding viewfinder
*All* reviews are biased. It is unavoidable.
The EVF is in actual fact considerably better than the previous A7C so I would suggest you check out the camera in person before deciding to write off because of the viewfinder
I purchased the A7CR, and I was so excited about its size and capabilities...BUT...the EVF was HORRIBLE, horrible, horrible. I just could not stand it, and ended up selling it. There's no excuse in 2023/2024 that Sony couldn't have put in a better EVF.
I disagree about the modular EVF, I had them for several m4/3 cameras and ended up never using them. I would definitely appreciate an upgrade on the a7cii but I want it right where it is now. Additionally it would place it in the center of the camera, which would negate the form factor, I love the a7c precisely because it's a "rangefinder" style body. My right eye is super weak, and I don't like mashing my face into my thumb with a SLR style one.
That's one upgrade I was really hoping for, so I'm a bit bummed it didn't arrive, but otherwise I am very excited about the step up the mark ii is over my a7c.
As an aside it looks so good with that little voigtlander on there. Can't wait to do that with the silver version.
I thought they do have smaller lenses. Firstly you have the 35mm F1.8 (Which is an amazing lens), and then you have the G lenses (24mm, 40mm and 50mm). You also have the 50mm F1.8 and the 85mm F1.8 which are also pretty light. I am looking at these and thinking they are a great option as a backup/second body. I do wish they had the new tilt and flip screen though.
Those lenses could be smaller or faster.
@@samireivinenthe 35 1.8, 55 1.8, and 85 1.8 are all already pretty small...
IMO your spot on about size. Personally I am looking for something compact that can also be versatile. One day I might want to be stealthy for street photography and the next have a long lens for portraits.
my gripes:
lack of joystick
should shoot 1/8000 instead of 1/4000
flash sync should be 1/250 not 1/160
should shoot 4k 60 without crop
better evf
Absolutely correct on all gripes.
I wouldn't buy these cameras because of the lower price, but because of the form factor and the compact size. I currently use two Panasonic GX8 bodies. Same form factor, although they are actually somewhat larger. However, the GX8, in spite of being 7 years old, has a viewfinder with the same resolution as these new Sonys but higher magnification (0.77x vs. 0.7x). I do like the button layout of the Panasonic better, but could probably get used to the Sony in that area. But that viewfinder is a deal breaker for me. If I buy a new camera, I would expect the viewfinder to be better, not worse.
micro 4/3rds to full frame is a big jump
not it isn't if you know how to use your camera@@careerdwithtomhannigan
Sony have the f/2.5 G series compact prime lenses which are pretty great. They would pair great with these new bodies. That 40mm f/2.5 G lens is one of my favorites lenses, even over my G Masters.
Yes, I love my Sony 40mm F 2.5 too, I use it often on my A7R III. In some way also my favourite lens and I also have several GM-lenses.
i have the sony 50mm f2.5, its like the perfect match! my goodness, not sure if other people have this combo. so small. i usually don't need wide open as everything is just too soft and mushy for normal photos. f2.5 is actually the sweetspot! you can still get separation.
While I agree with you in "the C series should also be top-range", I think at least some of the models should be more affordable than the full-sized-original and the full-featured-C models. Currently, I'm happy the C models are significantly cheaper than the full-sized ones they're derived from. And the sacrifices (EVF, single SD card, lack of 8k) aren't that big an issue - at least for me.
Agree with this about small lenses...
If you want tactile F2 primes, Sigma has some incredible lenses for sale. The challenge with an optional EVF instead of built-in is that it handicaps flash use.
Literally the one feature I use the most on the a7C original is moving the focal point, then dialing it in with the manual rings on my lens. A joystick for this work would be awesome.
ngl, I'm kinda a fanboy of the form factor, so I hope to own both very soon. That being said, I think the II will be my first grab. Thanks for the info and your thoughts!
LOL - I'm guessing that I'll eventually get both myself. Seems crazy to even consider. I have the original A7C too, so I may sell it to help with that. The original was less than magical - certainly felt the compromise from the A7III but the form factor is the kill app - especially as I age. I don't even want to bring my heavy good glass with me - preferring the travel-friendly "good enough" compact lenses.
@theartofphotography I am in love with the idea of the A7CR for an amateur, do-it-all, high res camera. I actually recently pre-ordered it. I do have a question though! I am very interested in both travel photography, documentary/family, and nighttime landscapes. Do I lose anything (A7CR vs. A7RV) besides the beautiful LCD for nighttime / astro landscapes? I know people will say the CII and RIV will have better lowlight at the expense of mpg but it doesn't sound like that big of a compromise. The A7RV can be purchased new for just a couple hundred more than the A7CR from some vendors. Given the price difference is so narrow, should I be looking at the A7RV for my needs? I love the small size and really think it is a great 2-1 camera. Take the grip off, throw on a compact G prime and walk around with friends/family. Put a 24mm 1.4 or the new 16-35mm on it and it becomes a pro-level landscape camera. Appreciate any and all feedback!
I really like the grip.
First you make a compact version of the camera and then you make a grip so the camera is less compact 😅
The perfect lenses for these a7c's are the a Sigma i- series primes which are Small but very high quality and at lower coat. I think the EVF is very important especially when shooting street in bright sunlight. I use my EVF to check images after shoot when the back of the LCD gets washed out. EVF is key. Sad they didn't make it better than the a6xxx line but less than the full sized a7 line so as to not hurt sales of the bigger full frame cameras. Work out a deal with the evf mfg to get a better price. Don't skimp on the stuff that is used all the time. Yes you can use the lid like a phone but if you just want an lcd experience then you'll just use a cell phone not a real camera to take pix. If you paid $ to take pix with a real camera then an evf is a vital important thing for sure.
My biggest gripes are :no tilting rear panel (not a video guy), no joystick, the materials could be better as touch points, and the EVF…. I like the concept of this line, but Sony neglects their photo customers by not going all out with the ergo ice and aesthetics of the more photo centric bodies. If you’re a video guy they put more effort in. I just feel that with the prospect of more people migrating from film bodies, they could’ve capitalized by not making this just a leftover parts bin line, but something made with intention. They make amazing featured cameras, but they don’t approach camera design with the user in mind first.
This really shouldn’t be a “budget” option. It should just be a different form factor.
I completely agree. A compact camera makes the most sense, if you can use matching compact (fast) lenses.
For budget reasons, I'm using a Panasonic Lumix GX8, and I'm not about to change that, because the micro 4/3 lens lineup, I have access to, is both compact, fast and simply too good for the money to get rid of. If Panasonic ever came out with a GX9 II, I'd upgrade to that - unless it turned out to be dud, but for me the Sony A7C series of cameras will remain a camera lineup to watch UA-cam videos about, but not own myself.
They actually have come out with a GX-9, also called a GX7mk3 in Japan market... but their product line is a bit confusing, I think the GX-9 is more like a GX850 followup than a GX8 followup. For me ... I want to love the GX8/9 but it can't compete with the full frame sensor in the same form factor. It was a night and day difference stepping up to A7C from my m43 bodies (G85, EM5ii, GF2, Air A01)
Oops - I missed that you actually said GX-9 "ii". I think a hypothetical GX9mk2 would have to be very affordable or come with a massive pixel density increase for me to consider it.
Disagree about the EVF. If you want a big center mount EVF go with the A7RV. Add on EVF would essentially be the same... I do like your take on the smaller f2 lenses... Intrested on your take on the 35/2 Loxia. Thanks again!
I could not agree more. What astonishes me is that Sony provides the technology required for not just most of the DSLR market but also most medium format cameras and yet they could dominate this market if they so wished - but instead produce humdrm middle of the road cameras which are not built terribly well.
Thank you for the first impressions. Still holding out for the RX1R mark ii.
You coulda had that in 2015… III?
@@MrFL08Calm down Capt. Correction
You could be waiting a while because last we heard from zeiss (full frame lenses) was in 2018. The rx1r camera was always about the sonnar 35 f2. Just like the q3 around the summilux 1.7.
I loved the rx1r ii- except that x battery was absolutely horrendous. I had to keep at least 3/4 of them with me if I wanted to do a modest days travel.
You mean RX1R3?
It’s great to see the Loxia lens in use on this. Really curious to know your experience with it on the CR. I’m with you in that this is the most intriguing of the two for my uses.
Regarding other lenses I do think the Sony G-lenses, the 24mm, 40mm and 50mm would be a natural fit. I have owned the 50G and found it incredibly competent both in utility and resolution on the a7riii and a7riv. Maybe Sony will produce 28mm and 85mm versions of this family?!
Like you the lack of EVF magnification really hurts for me personally - I wear glasses all of time, so that small and narrow EVF pushes my eye way back, and I just prefer to frame that way but can’t say it’s a complete dealbreaker.
Thank you for the thoroughness and thoughtfulness as always!
The cameras we have today are a hundred times better than the ones top photographers had to work with in the last century. That's why I don't understand all those people whining about that view finder. Ridiculous.
Stop crying and just start taking pictures.
So glad to see a creator that cares about the elements of photography that matter to us. These companies have all the money in the world. We should be forcing them to meet our needs tbh. I would have an A7CR if the EVF was solid
The EVF’s with higher( and larger ) pixels are also heavier. If you look at not only Sony this is what I see from Fujifilm as well. One item that does help is to select the large icon option on Fuji, this makes reading your settings much easier. I do not have a large icon option on my existing Sony and not sure if the Sony a7cr has the feature. I like to keep my eye in the viewfinder and any enhancement is welcomed.
But the issue with the Sony “ C “ is to keep it compact and light, keeping the body weight around 1.1 lbs. in the A7cr. that is pretty light relative to mailer mirrorless aps-c cameras. We will see how the smaller compact cameras evolve because the full frame lenses are HEAVIER AND LARGER. The other issue in favor of full frame is resolution and that is a question for the owner to decide what is acceptable in terms of image quality. I like the a7cr but not sure about the ergonomics when loaded with a zoom lens. Seems counterintuitive to add a grip to a compact camera…it rather defeats the whole “compact” strategy. Personally I need auto focus because my eyes cannot do manual focus. To your point I too would pay more for a .5” EVF with better resolution.
I'm with you on the joystick. No matter how good a company's AF system is, I still want to precisely place an AF point, and not use a touch screen to do it. The A7R III(a) is getting a bit long in the tooth, but I still think it's a bit of a sweet spot in the lineup in terms of features, resolution, etc. I intend to hold on to mine for a while.
Still using the original A7R3, as well. The only reasons I'd see to get a newer body would be AF improvements, better IBIS and focus stacking, but I don't actually need any of these features, and the A7R3 still has the best battery life (I think?) and better high ISO and dynamic range.
What’s the issue ussing the control wheel to shift focus area? I never understand what should be advangage of joystick. You want to play videogame?
@@SuperTonda1 Mine is set to control a bunch of other stuff. I like having the joystick, it's useful and gives extra manual control. Using the control wheel for focus would give me less options. To each their own, but I find it helps the camera get less in the way.
@@wandererstraining okay I get that~ I also use that for extra functions. But isn’t there a way to program to press button in the middle and then move the focus area and keeping the other functions that way?
@@SuperTonda1 Yeah, but I also programmed it for something else, lol. Plus, it's an extra click every time, where the joystick is more instinctive.
this seems to be one of the more honest and from an actual photographer that shoots a lot reviews
I agree. If SONY ever came out with a compact premium line, it would be an instant success. That said, the 'new' sub-standard EVF and LCD at the current price point in 2023/24 is inexcusable.
half way there, they got the PREMIUM $3000usd price tag on A7CR ;)
Coming from the RX1RMk2 to the A7C, I had not the biggest issue with the viewfinder. everything a tad better than in the original A7C will do for me :) I think its time to say goodbye to my A7C and my Sigma FPL with all Lenses to get the A7Cr. Will be. a great companion to my Q3 I guess :)
@arminhirmer how was the move from RX1 to A7c? Did you find any lenses that gave you results close enough to the Zeiss Sonnar on the RX?
Tough one :) I used many different lenses, often the 40 2.5 which is great but also Voigtländer 35 and 50. But Sigma 65 f2 is outstanding
Great review, thanks! Agree with the smaller footprint should not always equal smaller price point argument. The ACRII is such a compelling platform for hiking/landscape… BUT, like yourself, the EVF & LCD factor in greatly to my personal happy factor when using the A7iv. Coming from a Z6ii, I still enjoyed the user experience more because of how thinks looked while shooting (though I’d never trade the AF, glass, or customization :D). Thanks again!
Not related to the A7C line but to Z6 II and A7IV: So you liked the EVF and LCD on the Z6 II more but prefer AF, glass and customization of the Sony? Would love to hear from your experience with those two cameras!
@@CopyRightOC Yes… I originally bought the Z6ii because it ticked off enough boxes and the screen/experience of the A7III at that time was miserable. I rented the A7iii, EOS RP, and a couple others, in the end I loved the image quality and user interface of the Z6ii better. After using the Z6ii for a year, though the CAF/Eye AF got quite a bit better (FW 2.0), the reliability was still not where I needed it and I was having a hard time finding the glass I wanted at a cost-effective price for me personally. We have 6 kids that all do photography so I need a more affordable eco-system than others.. came down to Canon RF bodies and EF Glass, or Sony. When the A7iv dropped I still was not overly impressed with the LCD/EVF resolutions but they were better than the A7iii and good enough, though not amazing like the Z6ii (which isn’t close to the X-H2, A1, etc.). The Tamron/Sigma glass for the E-Mount has been fantastic. The Sony ergonomics are still not my favorite, but there is little the A7iv has not been able to do for me… just a great all-rounder with exceptionally reliable AF, customization, and lens eco-system. Hope that helps some! The A7iv colors are also very close now to a blend of Canon/Nikon. Nikon and Fuji still produce my favorite colors and I’m seriously looking into the Fuji Eco-System as well… it’s just their ISO / Low-light performance that keeps me Sony at the moment.
Edit: Concerning Customization, there is almost zero barriers to customizing the A7IV’s buttons/dials etc. I love the unmarked dial on top (normally exp comp), I have it slaved to Aperature… I almost never need to look at the menus. Speaking of which, the menu structure is now every bit as refined as Nikon… I still prefer Canons, but Sony is 2nd. With the My Menus (6 pages) you can store every setting you quickly want to find in any order, it’s a great and very user-friendly eco-system now (even if the verbiage is still a bit head-scratching). The camera ergs are not as good as Nikon or Canon… just doesn’t feel as “right” in the hand, but it gets better every day with muscle memory.
No one ever mentions the drawbacks of the flash sync speed and that hss is basically unusable due to the lack of a fully mechanical front curtain. The a7c has a max sync speed of 160 😢 I wish it would hit at least 250 like the a7iv. I am a wedding photographer and I use the a7c ii as my family/personal camera but I do like to play with flash for some nice family portraits. Wish I had a higher sync speed but hey, other than that the image quality is exceptional and the button layout is very well designed. The camera is almost perfect for me…
I am not in the market for this camera, but I like its size. Especially, because I already own 2 Zeiss Batis lenses.
That said, I do want Nikon to really deliver with their coming Zf. I want something really retro, with F3 build quality and durability. That is what I want and would buy.
Me to. ZF is rumored to have 1/8000s mechanical shutter, 3,96mln dots EVF with 0.80x magn.!, better and bigger LCD, probably 1/250s flash, high res mode, WR, and it will be cheaper... the only question is sensor - 24mp or 45mp? there are some reports ZF is are tested in these two versions...
@@Piotr_Waldo Let's hope Renessda, let us hope.
Agreed, especially since E mount lenses could be adapted to Z with very little trade off
They have 3 compact lenses that released with the original A7C.
From the comments here and elsewhere, I see an unmet market need for EVF improvements. Not just bigger and brighter, but also more flexible. Not all photographs are taken while the photographer looks straight through the EVF. An unshielded tilty-flippy rear screen might be great for low-viewpoint shots but the screen image is tiny and can be washed out by ambient light. Using a tripod raises a whole new range of issues.
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I have a gut feeling that we are getting closer to a great rethink of how EVF images are presented to the camera user. I took notice when you mentioned, in passing, that a modular viewfinder might be nice. This might make it easier for camera manufacturers to try out new customizations for a more diverse market.
In the 1960's, I remember (but couldn't even remotely afford) high-end cameras where you looked down from the top at a ground-glass screen. I remember complex mechanical arrangements where you could tilt all the way between inline and straight down. A big enabling technology for modular tiltable EVFs would be to use a flexible electronic connection to replace all those mirrors and prisms in the old design.
I don't expect to see any of this soon, but I keep hoping.
Yep I completely agree, if the EVF was just a little bigger and we had a joystick on this body, It would be my next purchase. And would probably replace my X-Pro2. It's so close to being the perfect FF rangefinder style camera.
totally love the tried and tested sonnar 55/1.8 for exactly what you describe: a high quality lens, reasonably fast, in a small and light package.
Great unbiased review as I am looking for a travel camera in a rangefinder style body. Unfortunately, I agree with the comment that Sony has missed the mark on the most glaring flaw of the A7c which is the viewfinder on both these camera bodies. Now let's see what Fujifilm releases at their next A-Summit on September 12th in Stockholm (X-Pro 4 ? ).
Thank you for your review! I got my Sony A7c for two years ago and use on a daily basis. Using Voigtländer Nokton classic 35 mm for stills, done exhibitions with it. Done a few documentaries using Sony lenses, a great camera for being unnoticed. I really have it´s place in my workflow. Have been looking forward for an upgrade!
Hi @mikaelsilkeberg9734, I too use manual Voigltänder lenses on Sony, and I have been wondering about these c series, but have been sceptical both because of supposedly subpar EVF (particularly relevant for manual focus, in my view) and because of lack of fully mechanical shutter (and artefacts related to electronic ones). I currently use 7siii for both video and photography, doing documentary work, and love both EVF and shutter of that camera; but always wonder whether I would be just fine with a7c (or a7cii now) to leave the very expensive a7siii home when around in the field. Have you ever felt limited by the EFC shutter in your a7c? If I may ask, thanks.
Hi@@lovicios, I have to say I feel the opposite. The camera get zero attention and have all the features I need, great battery life. I have never experience any artifacts with the mechanical shutter shooting stills. Its a little bit load shooting wedding in church. A7c has 8 bit in clog and for better grading A7c2 have 10 bit and some more features for video. The problem I had in the past with Sony is that they can take the daily use. The get wrecked. The Sony A7c on the other hand still looks great after using hard for two years.
have you tried the additional eye cup ? , it really makes a difference
I'll have to actually handle the camera, mainly so I can see if the slight improvement in the EVF makes it a camera I can live with. I had the A7C and sold it after a few months because I just could not live with that EVF.
You are the only person throughout the UA-cam reviews of this camera that has complained about the “new” evf
Yes I agree! I wanted the FORM FACTOR not the cheaper price when I bought my two A7C cameras. I totally would have paid more to get better EVF and higher resolution!
I upgraded from a Sony APSC camera that had a HIGHER magnification EVF than my A7C! 🤨
I think on first look that Sony has a great camera in the A7C-II. That said, I would add to the wish list a second card slot, and a better EVF. I'm not a hybrid shooter so video specs don't excite me. If I can get 1080 at 120 I'm happy. I am confused why Sony hasn't made any changes to their fps rate of 10 or less. They've made so many advances in autofocus and subject tracking that it seems as though raising the fps to something closer to 15 would have been made a reality by now. I currently shoot Canon, but Sony has been peaking my interest for some time. Just a few key features and I'll be switching!
SONY wants you to buy their upcoming a9III - it might be the fasted camera ever made!
1/4000 max shutter speed is a big letdown. Also, I hate that these cameras don’t have a joystick for focusing. I love the form factor and had the A7C, but got rid of it because of these two issues.
What you are asking is present in the A7R line up. If you want the same in a smaller form factor, you'll canibalize the A7R's. To the contrary, I wish they would go the opposite side and drop down the prices, by that I mean drop the video completely and simplify the AF and the menus, but as you said give a true viewfinder and a fuji XT-5 style ergonomic and back screen .
I’m in the same camp as many other commenters here. I sold my A7C and three great Sony lenses to spend more than twice as much on a used Q2. I want compact form factor and good design without compromising features.
Thank you for pointing out the small details with the mechanical shutter and evf.
Great points. I wish manufacturers would make more models without the center EVF placement, but with great quality EVFs. I've about had it with smashing my nose against my cameras with my head at an odd tilt and angle, as if the lens needed a direct path through some vestigial prism.
I've been saying how much I would love an external EVF option for the ZV-E1, I love my A1 but at times, I prefer the ZV-E1, yes... even for photography, that thing is amazing in low light! But NOT having an EVF makes it hard to use at times, so yeah... external EVF for selected bodies would be great!
$2,200 and $3k are not low price point - they should have the features you mentioned at those prices, especially a better EVF and back LCD. Also not a huge fan of the fully articulating screen on this model - they should have used the design and screen from the A7R iv. If you want a fully articulating screen, get an A7IV or ZV-E1 - keep the A7C for the mostly stills crowd.
Great review as always. I wear glasses so the EVF's of any camera would make me jump for joy. I got the A7cr to be a little brother to my A7r5. So i know it doesn't have all the bell and whistles of it's big brother but the thing they share are amazing. Thing like, flawless auto focusing, the 60 mp sensor, pixel shifting to give you 240 mp. I love the A7cr, it live upto what it was made for.
An excellent thought-provoking video about the Sony A7C II. Sony seem to be somewhat conflicted about what the compact range of the A7 series is supposed to be about. Is it a budget variant of the A7 range or is it a distinct and smaller range finder style full frame camera from Sony. It’s clear that this camera in its second generation is not a budget camera and it seems churlish to force in some relatively inferior elements in order to give the impression that it is, when they could as you stated look to actually make this more premium.
I have been strongly considering the C range of cameras, But recently invested in a third party eyecup to attach to the EVF of my A7R3 and I’ve started using the EVF for photography again with great results and a far more immersive experience. The low resolution and small EVF in the compact range is diminishing the appeal of the compact range of cameras. If Sony could address this then the compact form of the A7C would once again be an highly attractive proposition to me in the future.
If Sony want to release a budget version of the ordinary A7 range of camera then they can do that by significantly stripping down features in the standard A7 in order to allow a lower price point and call it an A700 range (or whatever they want to call it.) In its current form the A7C range neither appeals to budget buyers nor professionals nor luxury buyers.
There is some food for thought for Sony about what direction they should elect to take with the version three of this camera and your thoughts are exactly what Sony should be listening to and thinking about. Excellent video. 👍🏾👍🏾
Very good thoughts Ted. I concur...perhaps they could create an a7C-Pro that incorporates the articulated screen of the a7RV, a quieter shutter, the joy stick, better thermals, and the EVF of the a7RV. I would not like to see them add an external EVF unless it could be cross purposed for the FX3/FX30....Solid review Ted.
You're not going to fit that magnification EVF into this body
@@mrmonday42 a guy can dream right! 😉
Everything you said except for me the viewfinder is fine in maintaining the compact size of the C Series, the LCD backscreen though doesn't make sense it isn't at the level (resolution) of the A7RV having such a Highres sensor and a poor viewfinder (a acceptable tradeof for some because of bodysize) in a $3000usd camera. ++ ADD THE JOYSTICK or a even better clickable mini one (A7CRII)
One of the things about the A7CR that's eyebrow-raising to me is that in super 35 crop mode it's still 24ish MP, theoretically opening up the option to use APS-C glass and get similar performance to their 6000-series. That brings smaller lenses while still leaving the option to hook up the big GM/ Art series FF primes as needed. Sigma has a new-ish split line of lenses (the "I" series) that are also much along the lines you described - one branch of compact-as-possible (but slower) and one of still-compact but fully-featured and fast-ish. They only get down to f/2, so maybe the adapted glass or the dedicated manual E-mount (voigtlanders et al) will still be superior.
The a6700 sensor has the same dynamic range as the a7rv sensor in crop mode. But the big issue is that the a7rv sensor is still super slow for video.
Yeah. The a6700 and fx30 is literally just the apsc cut from the a7rv sensor.
@@MikeMarrah It's close forsure, but the a7RV read out speed in ASPC mode is still slower than the a6700 sensor. The a6700 sensor is around 15ms, and the a7rv is still at like 28 - 30 ms.
How stupid to spend $3000 on a camera to make it into a $1000 APS-C camera
Also interesting is the fact that in M RAW on this sensor (saw this on 61Mpix A7RV tests compared to A1/A7IV/A7sIII) you get 26Mpix RAW photos (I assume extremely well downsampled internally from full 61 Mpix width sensor) with better definition (to my eye) than Sony A7IV 33Mpix RAW photos. So to me this makes this new A7CR (and A7RV) a very interesting option coming from a A7III in my case, gaining better quality file/definition with barely 2 more final Mpix so file size will be very similar but with better quality than going to a 33Mpix A7IV (of corse that camera is a different body and has it's pro's for other users/use cases and is cheaper). This to me is the ideal case, smaller file size less bloat for everyday use but as good or better definition than other alternatives (A7IV / A7CII) and when needed using full L RAW / 61Mpix ( obviously assuming quality is the same as A7RV sensor.)
I'd rather to keep the camera compact than have a better but bigger EVF. In my opinion, if you really need EVF in general size, you can go with A7M4.
Well Fuji X100V has a higher res EVF so it's possible...
In the super small size RX1R2 they put in a 0.78x pop up EVF. It’s more about cost I guess.
Hi Ted,
you are right: I like the small form factor and the rangefinder style of the 7c mark II, but I would prefer a better EVF and also a better display.
Even if this would cause a higher price point.
Thanks for your video and your honest opinion.
Kind regards,
Sven
I think they should make that EVF larger. But they probably don't want to compete with Leica's Q3, (another of their big customer of sensors), creating something with big EVF and with interchangeable lens will beat that $6k product.. and could also reduce sales for A7R V.
If I am only interested filming video, and I want the AI features, does the A7CR have any significant advantages over the A7C II?
The Sony A7C II is very compelling for anyone that was looking at the A7IV and is willing to give up the extra card slot - so more of a hobby/travel oriented version of that A7IV and it has better AI tracking (AI chip). To me, that is extremely compelling as long as the grip is comfortable for your hands (for me, it is). There are a few other things you give up too compared to the full body, but that's expected in a compact design. The C in the A7C II mostly stands for compact since it isn't _that_ much less expensive (depending on timing and sales).
The A7CR is another animal. The huge 61 MP sensor mades it less than ideal for video (same as the A7RV). The A7CR is basically a compact _and_ cheaper version of the A7RV - being somewhere between $500 and $900 cheaper than the full body. Since the A7RV has the latest Sony tech, the A7CR is mostly a downgrade (features removed) vs the full body trading that for the lower cost, but still keeping the main killer-feature - that sensor. Again, probably oriented towards the serious hobbyist/traveler vs a pro that would strongly favor dual card slots.
Both are travel/hobby cameras. Today, even dSLR/mirrorless cameras are competing with smartphones, so there needs to be something _very_ compelling to make taking a camera setup with you. For example, I took a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Italy - I used my smartphone all of the time and really could have left my big camera at home. There were only a _few_ times I wish I had a real camera (indoors) - and most of the time, even those locations prohibited cameras (churches). As I get older, I really do value a lightweight setup - especially on hikes or long days of walking.
61MP is quite overkill I think, especially for street photography or travel which the compact size lends itself to. At least you can lower the RAW resolution to 26MP and can use the full resolution to crop when using image ratios like 1:1 square format or in aps-c mode. That is a (expensive) bonus over the A7C II imo.
@@joetrent4753 Anytime someone says X is enough or Y is overkill - I think of the "640K should be enough for anyone" quote. But really, it depends what you need a camera for. If I could only have one - the A7C II is a more well rounded hybrid camera, but A7CR is very compelling for landscape/photo-centric travel. You do give up some sensitivity and video options for all the megapixels.
The left side viewfinder is a tad problematic for left-eye shooters.
Goodness you have alot of comments. but as a beginner. I am looking at the a7c II. I Was wondering if you were beginning and had to choose between the a7cii or the a6700, would would you?
I understand your perspective but as I own an a7rv, I want a second full frame less expensive travel camera. The a7cii fits the bill but at that price I need a better evf. I think it should’ve been leas than 2k. It’s too close to the a7iv in price. We forget the a7iv was 22-2399 when it first came out.
Thanks for the review. I find the evf on the CR to be a decent improvement over the original A7C, which I sold because it was really unusable. The compactness of the CR compensates for the lower quality vf in my opinion. I love using it with my 50mm f/1.4 lens for street shooting. Also, I didn’t feel the shutter was too loud, but I’m usually shooting in noisy environments.
Maybe one day we'll see full feature a1c or a9c with good evf, better screen, dual card slots and one of this awesome sensor - professional, small and beautiful (chrome) body.
The EVF is at the top of my priority list so it will be a no for me.
A good review. For the people using third party manual lenses. Still get meter readings & focus peaking in EVF/ rear screen? Thank you for any replies.
Agreed. Dumbing these down is bad. I would pay for better (larger) EVF and Joystick. And i think it’s time Sony puts design templates into photographers hands before making UI choices.
I also want that small but hi spec camera and small f2 lenses. That would be a killer combo. Maybe a1c?
That’s a neat watch! Would you mind sharing which it is?
Horage Lensman 2
From what I have heard so far, the view find has a bit higher magnification in the A7c. It sounds like it is a "modest" improvement which you would only notice if you tested it together with some of the other similar bodies (old A7c and a6600 and a6700), but it seems they are listening. Then again, they _are_ making more money on some of their other bodies, so . . . . :-)
Agree with the optional evf option. I wish sony would offer that instead of the dinky little evf on these. I had the detachable evf for canon m6 camera and it was awesome, I could have a tiny discreet camera, and if I needed to see better I could pop it on and it only got slightly larger. Do it sony!!!!
The EVF on the 2 new models have been improved from 0.59x to 0.70x same as the a6700. But yes if you think it’s still not big enough no external option now.
I already own an A1 and A7rV, I preordered the A7CR as a possible replacement for my RX1RII, I was hopping the viewfinder was at least better than that camera, still on the fence as to see when it comes in or cancel.
@bobdamico1099 how did the A7cr fare as an RX1 replacement? Which lens are you using as a replacement for the Zeiss on the RX?
Hi Ted, Thank you for a great review! I am in the market for a new camera and had zeroed in on A7III, but with these 2 new releases, I'll have to re-evaluate my thinking a bit. Any suggestions? Also, I cant help but notice your watch :) Can you share the make and brand. Thanks again
Very good presentation indeed. To me evf is useful and important to use outdoor under strong tropical daylight. Sony's invention is never up to consumers ' expectation. That means we have to change gear every few years.
Also Sony made a near perfect compact full frame camera in the RX1RII which is my favorite camera. They very easily could’ve expounded on that design and built a proper rival to the Leica M for users that want the flexibility and predictability of an EVF and af lenses, but the smaller form factor and interchangeable lenses. This feels like a half measure that I’m sure they’re banking on people getting over its faults. I just don’t see this being a camera made with photographers in mind. It feels more like a crumb trail from the ZV and A6000 line to their A7 line.
I don’t hate this line up, I just feel like they keep coming up short and not paying attention to what’s missing in their lineup. The CR body easily could’ve had a much better feature set to distinguish it more from the CII.
I need a full frame camera. Looks like the first model a7c is going down in price.
Forget the C. Go for used A73
@@Ezrabastian I need the small package. Im already in the fuji ecosystem. So I don’t want anything heavy
difference is miniscule. a73 is a superb camera@@djxcel23
Agree, if only the eVF of my Sony RX1R can be used on ZV-E1, I'd pick it up so fast.
I might swap my A7C for an A7C ll, looks very good.
Looking to upgrade my smartphone and as a hobbyist, I can’t justify these price points. Used Panasonic g9 still on my radar.
I think it'd be nifty if more camera makers made not just these lower profile grip extensions (I know canon has one for the RP/R8, not sure if anyone else does), but a sort of "extended" battery that made use of the extra 1.5 centimeters of height that's otherwise wasted with these existing grips
Completely agree about the EVF - Leica Q3 can do it why cant Sony
The Leica Q3 costs a lot more.
Small EVFs are difficult for those of us who wear glasses. When outdoors in daylight I manually focus my a7Rv using its wonderful EVF. This enable me to enjoy my Loxias and CV primes, and same when manually focusing Sony zooms. In contrast when shooting my Fuji x100v its tiny EVF forces me to rely on AF.
Rather than a hot shoe EVF I'd suggest the design should have included a small bulge in the top plate to accommodate a larger EVF.
I wish Sony had a smaller range of cameras. It feels like they are spread too thinly.
Well today on Amazon the a7cII is 2199 and the a7iv is 2299. I think I would go with the a7iv at this price point over the other.
very honest and balanced review, thank you. I would love an interchangeable lens Q3 but its not going to happen😕
A7cr is the only camera out there with the specs and compact form at the moment. As a canon r5 shooter I would to see a canon equivalent withe the rf 16,28,35 lenses on it. But until then Sony only option. Maybe I will change the EOs r5 to a75 if Sony impresses me enough. They come along way with there ergonomics,tilting touch screens and usability. 24g and the 40g lens will be my go to the a7cr.
Sony 35 1.4 is somewhat compact. The 55 1.8 matches well. The Samyang 75 completes the set and is smaller than the 55. Not tiny but all faster than f2.
Agree! Not worth the price difference over a used like new a7c from KEH or MPB for $1500.
I agree. I would like to see the a6700 features in a 40 megapixel sensor low light camera for around 3 grand
First, let say that I've ordered an A7CR. But, I have the same concerns as you. Particularly the evf. But, if Sony included all of the features found in the A7R5 in the smaller lighter cheaper A7CR, why buy the A7R5?
The @7C was on my radar but when I got one in my hand, I instantly said no! The EVF was far too small and was unusable… and the price! It’s £3,100 here… that’s not‘cheap’!
Why didn’t they just build the extension grip into the body?
I hope these are better… sold my @7 III and gone back to Fujifilm as I’ve bought the X-T5.
Two things would really make me take a serious look at these two camera is one a better EVF and two a new line of F2 lenses. Everything else I could live with.
How is the A7C R priced at 3k with 61 megapixels full frame sensor and excellent auto focus a low price point customer centric camera? I do like the suggestion for a modular EVF though instead of compromising the user experience by putting in a sloppy EVF. The EVF is not a big deal for me as I mainly use it for night photography and long exposure stuff. Even for other occasional use cases, I only bother with the EVF if its super bright. But I defnitely, 100% would have a loved a better quality LCD display at the back. They should not have compromised on that! But I love this camera for the price and the image quality, the 2 things which are the most critical. And it looks pretty modern too!
Re your desire for Sony to make smaller prime lenses to go with the 'C'ompact line - Is there something different you're looking for than the 3 prime lenses Sony released in early 2021 ? Those were the 24mm f2.8, and a 40mm & 50mm f2.5s - you did a video on them and really liked them. Just curious if I missed something...
Hi Sir compare between the two camera A7Cll and A7CR overall which I the best choice. Tks
Ted, “It’s Sony Release Day”. That would be a great segment in the revamp of your channel. Sony actually release enough gear for this to be “a thing” on tour chanel😊. Thank you, Peter.
Why don't Sony have an open conversation (literally live on UA-cam) about camera development with their user base? Ask the question, "tell us what you want" and then give reasons why they can and can't include specs and arrive at a camera that people are genuinely excited about and feel like they've had a hand in creating. Imagine the sense of community and loyalty that would bring. The viewfinder is a recipe for resent. Size isn't an issue, plenty of smaller cameras have superior viewfinders and it isn't price, the A7RC costs the same as a GFX50sII, nor are they having to recoup additional R&D costs because the components are inherited. Sony needs to kill and consolidate IMO. Bring coherence by offering fewer cameras that are as good as they can be. These cameras will just make it easier for me to stick with my A7IV and not lust after the shiny new thing.
Agreed
Great review man! I’ll be shopping for a Sony Camera real soon and this vid will help me decide. Thank you!