The main problem with VGT is that games have gotten so overcompetitive that not even the brands themselves are allowed to have fun anymore. It's suposed to be a casual addition for fun rather than another point for competition, i get that it could have been incorporated in a better way, but more content should always be seen as better as long as it doesn't break the game. Gran Turismo used to be the simulator for everyone, now it's been taken over by the competitive scene and it's no longer what it once was. VGT made sense until GT Sport came out, just like Jay Leno's tank car being in game
@@sehhmie5483 The tipping point was GT4. But if someone made an updated GT1 and GT2 with maybe a few little extras I'd probably completely ignore and forget the rest of the series.
@@vycanismelodisThat brings money... big companies are ran by more and more money! EA games, PD, 2K... every game is really focused on esports and competition, so forget the good old single player sit-in-the-house-after-school days
@@theportugueselegend The problem is that esports does not make money, they are losses to the company for the fun of the players. The esports are there to maintain playerbase attention, once the game's playerbase dipped because the developer did enough controversial things, no amount of esports event will bring those disillusioned players back.
It has become pretty apparent that Kaz at least as he's getting older (ie the last 10-ish years) has begun seeing cars more as beautiful things to be looked at and appreciated, as art even. And much like more modern games that try hard to be art rather than games, the "game" part of the videogame for Kaz and Polyphony is almost a vestigial part or their product, an ancient relic that they perceive to be an annoying obstacle they have to include in their product in order to market and sell said art product as a video game. I like me some car pr0n, don't get me wrong but just making something that is visually impressive and beautiful does not equate to making a good game.
Surely the best way to appreciate a car would be to give it its own missions not trapping it in a white room. I don’t think anyone would complain about a Jazz championship if it meant everything else also got one.
@@MuscleCarLoversome people aren't going to like your comparison but you're right, that game was a great screenshot simulator but the actual gameplay was crap
Excellent points in the video. Just to add a few small points of my own: Vision GT cars often look comical, almost like a caricature of what a car should look like, and it very much clashes with the ultra realistic look and feel of the game. The Merc VGT for example, has tyres so low profile, they look painted on. The Volkswagen Supersport has no fuel inlet anywhere. Many don't even come with reverse lights or turn signals. Most are set to scrape on their own shadow even on a textureless, mirror smooth racetrack, and with non adjustable suspension, they just spark like crazy and are a bumbling mess on laser scanned real tracks. Oh, and some of these shadow scraping cars can even fit dirt tyres, which should tell you everything you need to know about how much thought goes into these things. Which brings me to my second point: most of them drive so God awful that it's completely inconceivable to me that anyone test drove these monstrosities before greenlighting them. Back in GT Sport, the Subaru VIZIV will wheelspin in 3rd despite having AWD, and its torque vectoring just instantly spun the car upon turning the steering wheel. Same with the INFINITI VGT. I mean, hell, the Jag VGT gave us the first (and only, if I'm not mistaken) red flag in Gran Turismo history, to give some context on how awful these things are to drive. In a series that has traditionally included many duplicate cars and highlighted the minute differences between them, Gran Turismo has really made me appreciate the small, mechanical improvements that go into a car as it ages. Now imagine Dodge coming along and claiming they can make more than 2,500HP from a 7 Litre V10. Chevy saying they can propel a car with lasers. It just feels like a playground fight between children to see who can exaggerate the best. Now imagine those playground kids being given the power to materialise their fantasies. It instantly invalidates any and all of the hard work that real engineers do to satisfy safety, emissions, and reliability standards to bring a car to market. It feels like a direct slap across the face to race these outlandish and improbable VGT cars with real cars. Back in the earlier GT games, the fictional cars weren't so egregious. The Dodge Copperhead looks like it could be produced and rub shoulders with an NSX, sure. The del sol LM looked hilarious, but it could run with the other LM racecars no problem. The RX-7 LM is actually based on an obscure 15th anniversary body kit Mazdaspeed offered. Even though they were fictional, they had roots in reality, and didn't feel out of place to look at or to drive. That I feel is the main difference between fictional cars in earlier GT games versus the stupid VGTs we have now. Even if VGT cars materalise, they often don't share much with the original VGT. The McLaren Ultimate VGT uses a familiar sounding V8 engine, features a novel prone driving position, and has my favourite cockpit view in the entire game. The McLaren Solus has none of that. The only link to the VGT program it can claim is just in styling. That just feels incredibly skin deep to me. As you said in the video, VGT cars aren't for the players. They feel like cheap, marketing ploys at best and being forced to watch Kaz and car manufacturers circle jerk one another at worst.
My problem with the VGT cars is their styling. Some of them do look cool like the BMW VGT and the Lexus VGT while others are just absurd like the Chevrolet Chaparral 2X or the Italdesign VGT. Other than that, I completely agree with you; VGT feels like a marketing gimmick.
@@Zhawn7 If they looked like actual things that might actually be actually drivable they'd be alright but too many of them look like absolute trash made by people who mashed buttons in blender.
Great post. I played Gran Turismo from the first game, and I also loved learning the small changes and improvements over a brand or a model's lifetime. The new games lack that opportunity, and they're worse for it.
Seemed cool in GT6. Was very annoyed to not see it really pan out, and most of the cars were half assed. Was very annoyed to see that it's still in the game in gt7, I don't care about these hideous concept cars anymore.
We have been asking for more actual product cars since GT5, but Kaz only cares about what he only wants to put into the game He is the Elon Musk of video games lol
I feel as though the issue largely comes down to, like it always does, time and development. The amount of patience and effort to not only wait for manufacturers to design these cars and put them in the game, but also to balance them performance-wise and price them in relation to their utility and PP while also making sure they perform uniquely from one another (which given how much of dickthroats car manufacturers are, they'd probably raise hell if their car was treated as lesser than others), would take an agonizing amount of time and work, even more work then I would presume the Gran Turismo games usually have go into them. The creation of Vision GT without planning ahead was a giant fuckup for Polyphony.
Personally I like seeing what designers do with VGT cars. I agree with your points that their should be more use for them in the game other than something to look at, but there's definitely a part of Gran Turismo that isn't for players, but more for the people who are interested in things like design and history.
28:39 Forza player perspective - yes. It's honestly pretty cool that GT gets this status and recognition, something Forza doesn't seem to have as well (though they did help in designing the Ford GT). The Tomohawk had me watching hours of VGT content and it's always looked pretty cool to me.
I don't like Vision GT cars. I don't like the mixing of real and fake and I cannot appreciate the engineering of something that doesn't exist. Would rather have more everyday cars. Toyota Tercel fifth gen rust bucket edition when?
I grew up with the Gran Turismo series. I've owned every title released in the U.S., starting with the original game. Sport was a huge disappointment. Gran Turismo 7 is the first of their games I've decided not to buy, and I don't feel like I'm missing out. It's not the same series I loved. Oh, well...
30:58 The Hyundai N 2025 Vision GT was also featured in the Roblox game "Hyundai Mobility Adventure", but it's a manufacturer racing game, so I digress.
among all the VGT, there's 4 that is unforgettable. Bugatti Chiron VGT, Nike 2020, SRT Tomahawk and Red Bull 2010. One become a reality which is Bugatti Chiron. All thoe, The Bugatti VGT is a modified Pre Production of a Bugatti Chiron.
@@D_LGND True. Maybe manufacturers shouldn't put a specific year on the VGT cars. The Nike ONE was supposed to come out in 2022, it didn't, the Nissan GT-R VGT was supposed to come out in 2020, it didn't. How much you wanna bet that the Tomahawk VGT doesn't come out in 2035?
I’m just sick of g7’s grinding so I can enjoy driving different cars…at least with the old system from gt sport, I would get a car for driving 25miles even if it’s the same same every 3rd time. The rillettes game in gt7 feels rigged to always give the minimum prise and I unlock a bew car once a week instead of daily since I normally play online with one or two friends. Then gt7 really messed up the realistic driving characteristics making them feel more arcady on the g29 wheel. I’ve owned actual corvettes and driven cars from the 488, hurricane (on track), gt4 Porsche, nsx, 720s (best car to drive for the rental money), c7 z06 with power-sliding it…meanwhile in g7… if I do a burnout off the line, my vette wips around almost immediately in an unpredictable manner which doesn’t exist in the real world nor in gt sport or gt5 which i used to learn how to drift before comparing drifting in the real world and those older games felt more realistic and more worthwhile teaching me actually throttle, braking, and wheel soeed skills….currently gt7 is unpredictable with any car in any turn with any type of slight understeer and have been really frustrating bc it disconnects me from real sim driving when comparing to real world practice
Hi Roflwaffle, love your work, I wanted to ask whether you had any thoughts on or would consider doing a video on what I call the "Unnecessary Realism Tax", since I haven't seen you tackle this angle yet. Essentially what this boils down to is the excuse/tax that apparently everything in GT7 takes so long to develop which is why the gameplay and us as players get taxed because of it. For example, cars take 270 days to make, city/street tracks are missing because they take too long to model realistically (I believe Kaz said this at some point), weather and day/night cannot be added to each track because it is too hard, cost of cars in game is ridiculous because that's how much they cost irl... I'm sure you can think of more examples :) You touched on this in your track design video where you mentioned original tracks being "updated" to be more realistic at the expense of being fun. Ultimately I think a balance should be met between how much time is allocated to making a game "realistic" vs actually making it fun. I feel this is one of the reasons why GT7 players are returning to older GT titles because gameplay for them is more important than seeing a high res aircon dial in cockpit view. Your thoughts on this?
Yep, completely agree. I've actually had a video like that on the back burner for a while now, not just about GT7 but racing games as a whole (GT7 is of course the best example), so I do plan on tackling that at some point
That is just a continuation how GT always was. The old GT games all feature a lot of race cars which don't have specific events for their specific racing category, like the GT1, D1GP, Super Taikyu, etc class cars. Oftentimes only a few or even just a single car out of a whole category is featured. This was balanced through PP only, basically fixing the problem rudimentary. The new, more actual class-based hybrid system is just not harmonizing well with the car selection. Project Cars 2 is a better example of how to select a car list for competitive racing, all while featuring more than a few categories, like Assetto Corsa Competizione or GTR2 do. Interestingly, the FIA is basically going the performance points way in real life, with their new performance factor regulations in hillclimb racing. Although I'd argue that this system is a bit more fleshed out than GT's performance points, where sometimes downforce isn't even a factor.
What my view is VGT is not practical in game at all. The high prize and unable to upgradge makes them useless. It's more like car designers' fashion show products, just to tell you what is the design language they are going to put on their furture products. For a game to promote car culture, this is not a bad idea, but game designers just forget to make them practical to make players remember them
I think I'll gladly take car companies trying genuine interaction with gaming community and legitimization of racing games rather than a couple of random cars that would arguably see even less use, not that VGTs compete for spots with actual cars or anything.
When it came to gt cars mixing with normal- I said make 3 categories. Real, mix, and visions. Make the vision special but allow players to learn their type and compete with the other to see if the visions are better or just the same!
31:07 I've heard of GT removing cars like Lotus' offerings before... it's baffling and I can't think of anything except Real Racing 3's first NASCAR mode dying that's like it.
Imo if they'd allow tuning, add interiors and to enter events (or make cups/exclusive events with several pp categories for vision gts) like normal cars I'd be totally content with them. Edit: that srt tomahawk looks more like a McLaren than a Dodge 😂
Sometimes it feels like Kaz is like Steve Jobs. Both are visionary, smart, and have made something that impacted the world. But they are equally stubborn lol
I just use Ferrari VGT for hypercar parade races and Infiniti VGT for USA make races. I got those both for free lol. They cost so much so I would never pay 1m for each.
Now you told me about the Vision Gran Turismo, i have to sell it in Sport! But what about the racer cars? From now on, I'm just gonna use Normal cars! Besides collecting cars is like catching a Pokémon but with Cars! Let me tell you this, in GT Sport, i tried using Vision GT Toyota in Professional mode! I thought that car will surpass the other or same cars, but I've been held back at 20 position and i didn't win the race! So that's why I sold it! When i get GT7, I'll just drive normal cars from now on! Edit: Actually, I don't care anymore, I can still use VGT car!
I remember I got really bored with GT Sport so I decided to spend an hour or two grinding out a very lucrative event to afford every Vision GT car in the game. After an hour or two of toying around with them, I got bored again and quit the game entirely. Looking at what 7 does with its game mechanics, I will probably get bored with it before I even get through the title screen. It’s sad, because racing games should ideally be an endless thrill, not a boring slog full of pointless gimmicks.
I have to be honest with you, I love Forza, it feels like such a complete experience that tries so hard to deliver us, the players the best they can. And then there's Gran Turismo which I really, really like but I don't love. It feels like a product for me to consume. Forza is like an Android Phone and Gran Turismo is like an iPhone. Both have their ups and downs but GT/Apple feel like they don't think about you, they only think about ripping you off while making you think you are paying for a luxury.
Personally, the game shifted its directions, this can be seen by Kaz's influences. You can see the split of competition vs the essence about automotive culture and history. Both can be blended well, but some dont. vGT lies in the experimental part of Kaz trying to echo automotive's brand art direction for a platform. It was a good it earlier year of 2010s but compare the theme now vs gt7 and gtS its complete different direction. Personally it helped to give automotive designers a free headspace to come up their shiny sports cars they dreamt off, but thats only it. A brand's dna direction for mkt purposes. Just my 2 cents.
I do like a mixture of real and fake stuff, like Driver SF, where all the main cars were real, but it had fake utility vehicles and a few others like that one car they had purely to explode it. Overall though, VGT is just a case of great idea, terrible execution, and its a shame.
This is just my personal opinion: VGT cars are supposed to be previews for their future design of cars and the manufacturers can tune it way too high or way too low to their liking. In most cases as you mentioned, it's for their benefit, not the players. The players themselves wanted "REAL LIFE RACING SIMULATORS" and found themselves in IRacing or Asetto Corsa, and I can't blame them. But as what we have seen from the numerous iterations of GT, they are actually more used with in-house data input rather than data input FROM PLAYERS when it comes to being a DRIVING simulator. Also, remember GT being the standard in pushing PS hardware to absolutes? Other games are doing it, even better than GT even. Fun part for me is that the latest GT Sport lets me move at a snail's pace. If I can't defeat the cup now, I can try it at a later time. Sport mode for me is running lap times and that's it. PSN accounts are free anyway and there's no need for subscription.
Exactly. Maybe these should be rewarded for completing certain events in B-Spec mode. Speaking of which, why didn't B-Spec mode make a comeback in GT7 yet? (I'm willing to bet Roflwaffle will probably make a video about that as well)
@@IvanovIvanAKrutoi Because it is online only game and to have that and have the internet go down or server’s to go down for maintenance or general downage will cut out the b spec. Unless you could theoretically save between race would work but that is something that needs to be thought of first
@@evandaymon8303 That's my point, they shouldn't have made GT7 online-only in the first place! If (and when) Polyphony decides to end support for the game and shut down the servers for good, I hope they'll at least be generous enough to launch an "offline" version of GT7 to compensate, like what Capcom did with Mega Man X DiVE when its servers will inevitably shut down.
Vgt was a wonderful idea on paper, but… well… A lot of the cars don’t behave, since they were never developed in the real world. Those that stick closest to real cars are the best, but then you might as well get the real thing. I’d love it if they used real life concept cars again, I miss the Furai. Which for a very obvious reason we can’t ever get back. Unless Mazda can be persuaded to build a replica. Please do. How about the gr3 roadcars? I used the Mustang as a rwd rallycar in gts and loved it. In gt7 it’s stuck at 1500kg, and for all the power it’s sooo sloooow…
I respect your opinion but I have a different one, I see the VGT as a project where the brands not only show what they can do, but literally change the technology in car industry. That's why I love the concept of the Chaparral 2X, Tomahawk X, McLaren and even Italdesign. Laser propulsion is something really interesting that it could be used in space exploration first but who knows if a car could use as an engine, the wings of the tomahawk X are incredible but is overshadowed by the overpowered engine that it's completely non-realistic, the way you "sit" in the McLaren it drops the gravity point, and the brake from the italdesign outside from the wheel, cooling the brakes faster than if they were inside
@@MrGuiagui I didn’t refer to the means of propulsion, although I wouldn’t like to sit behind a laser propelled car at the traffic lights :) I used one of the Jags for the vgt races, and the way it handled… I was so annoyed with that setup, but we’re denied the opportunity to do a better job ourselves. That’s what I meant: the setup should be done for real, or we should get the means to adjust it at least
Especially on GT7 every time I looked at Vision Gran Turismo cars I couldn't help but think "cool looking, but why focus on these instead of bringing in the game other cars that are infinitely more popular than what these will ever be?" Especially in a game that had no focused events for around half the cars available ingame. "Vision" program should have stayed as a fun concept work of a handful of a vehicle years ago, not turning GT into a grind version of Ridge racer.
I think Gran Turismo hasn't been necessarily strictly about realism, but rather car CULTURE, and concept cars are a part of that. They certainly need to be implemented better, but they have their place in the game
Indeed. I've always seen Gran Turismo less as a sim racer and more as a weird RPG-like, where you choose your cars, upgrade them, win championships, etc. A game about enjoying cars in a (horse)power fantasy fuelled by stage 4 turbos. Concept cars in this context are like race cars, more of trophies / curiosities than something core to my playstyle, and I prefer to have them to break up the monotony of stock cars. Plus, without these odd cars we wouldn't have fun stuff like bringing a Suzuki Escudo to the sunday cup lol
@@migueeeelet Your comparing it to an RPG does kinda make sense. And I mean, how many RPGs don't have cool weapons and equipment that look awesome but are practically useless? That's just a part of the experience in those games, and to a lesser extent the same can be true in GT
Car culture goes completely beyond these concept cars, they compose less than 1% of it. This is like making a soccer game but focusing mainly and only on how the ball looks like.
You want "car culture"? Play NFS Underground. Even in Japan, those who wanted to modify their cars a bit put weird cosmetic shit in and on their cars - 'look at my flashy new spinning hubs' (FFS). The ones with sense, modified whatever they could in relation to performance. The ones with proper money added or replaced components - intercoolers, turbos, flywheels, the suspension, entire frigging engines... If you want to get serious about cars, and more exclusively - what GT originally focussed on over a quarter of a century ago - the actual effects of modifying and adjusting actual bits on the car that actually make differences, no matter how obvious or subtle, now you're playing the game as I imagine Kazunori Yamauchi initially intended Gran Turismo to be. The fact that money has hit his head and Gran Turismo is no longer focussed on adjusting components on your car and then racing with simulated acceleration, deceleration, cornering, et cetera, means that GT is a cash cow for the sheer sake of it being a cash cow. People play GT (I assume) expecting to get the best car in the game, and racing it as if adjustments to the camber or the damper or the ride height are auxiliary (or worse, 'superfluous'). The ones complaining about the state of GT today are the ones who have undoubtedly been playing GT since GT4 at the absolute latest. The ones who aren't complaining are the ones that GT has decided to target the game towards - boneheads who just 'pick up' a car, 'add a thousand horses' to it, and then 'blitz the competition', with sweet frigg all in terms of technique. 'Just go slow around the corners, and pass them on the straights'. 🤦 So much for "culture".
I love the idea of the project and some of the results are absolutely fantastic in terms of design, as you say we even see some of the ideas from VGT having an impact. Concept Cars have always been one of my favourite categories of the Automotive world as you can see what Engineers and Designers are capable of when they're given loose parameters with no expectation of having to produce the car. If used properly the VGT program could be such a strength for the franchise as even normal concept cars tend to be very rare in other racing games. Having any concept cars be drivable in games is so fantastic as they can basically live a new life they'd never have otherwise, if they're built in a driving form irl then they tend to just end up in storage or collections if they're not dismantled at some point. VGT is just the cherry on top for me as you can see what some manufacturers have on their mind if they were unshackled in the current times and in the coming years. The implementation though leaves so much to be desired, as you say PD definitely needs to massively rethink what the hell to do with them. At the moment they're just interesting showpieces for the most part unfortunately.
This is why modding is so important in gaming, if the game allows mods I'm pretty sure someone will make these VGT cars able to race against each other! And possibility are endless!
Easy fix for the inclusion of concept cars debate: After doing a full integration of concept cars into events with production/racing cars, give the players an option to toggle concept cars in races as opponents. Gives the player the choice of how they play.
I gonna create my VGT car: A Hybrid Toyota Sprinter Trueno AE86 retrolike style, using a combined engine with 1143 HP engine and a giant spoiler who magically change the downforce using AI real time calculations. Resume: VGT is a great bs.
TBH, I love the VGT cars. Even before I even got Gran Turismo since I first saw them in a video called "150 Rare Cars in Video Games". From then on, even if I think Real Cars should also be added, I still have a heart for VGT Cars. Heck, I even wanted some car brands to join the VGT game like Koenigsegg, Pagani and Acura (even if Honda joined in). But then again GT Brats gonna be GT Brats (GT Brats are just GT players who complain or even btch and moan) that will still complain even if the most requested cars like the LFA, 992 GT3 and Dodge Demon are in the game and demand for real cars or call the most requested cars "boring". Besides those people are just the human versions of the slang word, "killjoy". They ruin people's fun when those said people say they like VGTs. (TBH, I always remember that before I bought my first GT Game. I would usually screenshot some VGTs and keep them since all of them, excluding the DP100 and Italdesign, are good looking imo. Even if they're all useless, aside from the Gr.1 and Gr.3 variants, or even I might never use any of them or might sell them when I don't feel like keeping them, I can still look at those VGTs and understand that VGT cars shows that creative freedom still exist.)
I remember Vision GT actually didn’t bother me in GT6 because I was already pretty entertained with 1000+ cars in the game. It started to feel like bad additions in GT Sport and 7 since the car choices felt so limited.
Re the 499P: there is almost definitely a licensing issue with the upcoming Le Mans game because it's good ol Motorsport Games. Who simulatenously locked in NASCAR, INDYCAR, and Le Mans in one swoop, has so far only delivered NASCAR games that are a complete buggy tragedy.
Forza pulled off the fictional cars card way better, as that franchise had fictional cars from videogames like Fallout, Final Fantasy or Cyberpunk that are fully modeled and fully useable.
@@sabersz Yeah, specially when you can have a trophy truck version of that car. That, the Quadra V-Tec and the Chryslus Rocket 69, really amazing looking cars.
9:49 The biggest mistake that was in Vision GT is actually not having insane race tracks for the insane cars. Take the NFS2SE as an example; the insane track options where designed about the insanely diverse concept cars. Now, it's insane cars designed for sane tracks.
it's all about the brand's prestige in my opinion, GT always envision itself as a mature, elegant, a racing game for the cultured. Vision GT is an extension of that, "look at us, even Bugatti and Ferrari designed cars for us!" i don't think Polyphony or Kaz ever think about what to do with these cars, they just want a collection of cool cars designed by real companies in the automotive industry to show how important their game is.
One area they need to improve is hybrid. They need a option to put it in charge mode and overtake mode. After the first lap you run completely out of energy. And it barely recharges under braking.
I think VGT is kinda cool, it's just that for whatever reason, the usage for them is insanely limited.... (which is crazy considering how far apart many are in performance)
I am a great fan of VGT simply because I love car design, especially outrageous car design like the Alpine and Dodge VGT. However I completely agree that they make no sense to exist in GT, they just don't feel like they belong because of the things you have explained in this video.
VGT cars are all ugly, except maybe the Bugatti, i would rather have real cars present in the game, regardless if those VGT were strictly placed or not, i don't want them, i don't need them, & don't use them
@@xXVibrantSnowXxsurely you must make an exception for the Ferrari which was closely designed with their new LMH in mind , that and it's considered a road car so you can blast many events haha
To be fair, the developers never promised any sort of proper usability for the VGT cars in the game - the project's main goal was to inspire manufacturers to get involved with the game, thus strengthening a positive relationship between them and the franchise. By the looks of it, this goal is achieved and there's more to come I guess. That being said, there's a win-win scenario as manufacturers get exposure and players get free cars. Sure, some of these cars are definitely not worth of general attention if any at all (like Daihatsu, Mini, ItalDesign or Zagato), some are meh but OK overall (like Infinity and BMW) and some are just epic (like Mazda, Toyota, Lexus). There's definitely some room for appreciation. To each of his own.
Design and create? Really? No, it's to create a ridiculous body, then pull obscene performance numbers out of their butts. It's never been anything more than crass branding and it was a detriment to the game when on many occasions the best cars for particular tracks are cars that COULD NEVER EXIST. Why not just add the 'cars' from Wipeout as well?
@@euphoriaggaminghdlook at how many cars younger than 2020 are in the game and compare it with the rest of the car list. Now look at how many interesting cars got released after 2020 that we still don't have. GT is still living in the 2000s with a feet in the early 2010s, with a gameplay design that is still in the late 90s...Taking out the atrocious microtransactions and FOMO aside because those are certainly stuff they took from modern gaming, much to our chagrin.
To add to the VGT cars in other games, the Citroën ended up in Asphalt 9 Also semi related fun fact, I believe Asphalt 9 was the first game to have an official licenced "Hypercar" (LMH/LMDh) with the SCG.
GT7 is the biggest disappoinment in the series. To make it worse they don't communicate at all. We didn't get an update this month and no explanation why
I couldn't agree more with the video. Congrats. The only Vision car I feel attached to is the turbocharged Audi version of the E-tron. So much fun to drive. The E-Tron itself is just a curiosity...
after 20+ years, the most famous racing franchise could not integrate its vision gt cars into the game?! My question is, have they even tried to play it or do the developers exist in their own separate world where players spend all their time in a photo editor? It feels like the 2d...
Gt7 plays less like a game and more like one giant ad for various manufacturers. At least they kept the spirit of gran turismo alive by adding 10 variants of the same japanese car per manufacturer while other countries recieve less in total in their showroom, some are almost a joke with how much alike they are. Like the imtegra type r. Same color, same body, same PP rating. But one is a 95 and one is a 98. Like why??
My issue with the VGT cars is that they are created with no constraints. In real life, you have to worry about chassis dynamics, packaging, designing a powerplant, and all other sorts of genuine issues that your design has to accommodate. With VGT, you end up with a bunch of cars that the manufacturer doesn't have the engineering capability to deliver (looking at you, SRT Tomahawks). You can make a car model that looks and handles like a spaceship and then decide that it would have 16000hp, but you don't have to deal with waste heat, material stresses, etc...there's no art without constraints.
Art can be anything. I liked the tomahawk and the vision that the creators saw. But, it had no competition thus, making it OP. It became as "ughghg really? My opponent chose this car? As expected."
VGT cars absolutely should be isolated due to how unrealistic they are. They're physics defying paper sheets. There's nothing stopping dodge from saying the tomahawk has ten billion horsepower from its 70 liter v30 and has zero doors or interior space.
I guess I'm one of those few who love Vision Gran Turismo cars. And opposite to you view I especially love those futuristic ones. At the end of the video you mentioned that "we're not going to be driving these things in real life anytime soon". That's right, but what the difference does it make if most of us are not going to be driving all the real Bugattis and Ferraris neither? That is my main point. For most of us the real hypercars are just as much a fantasy cars as VGT's, so a Tomahawk S or even Tomahawk X isn't seem to be much more unrealistic than a Bugatti Chiron for example. Again, I get that my view is quite unique.
Something that pull me off, is racing classic Le Mans cars such as 787B or R92CP against VGTs, it just ruins the immersion. Even tho I know, the game lacks classics LMPs cars in the first place to fill an entire race. And in fact, I miss that; I prefer the old cars, I miss those Pescarolo, Bentley Speed 8, Minolta 88c-v, 350z LM, GTR Falken LM etc...
True cause back then in GT6 in 750PP races, I was always racing against LMPs but in GT7 Gr. 1 Proto series was hard for me to complete due to all VGTs being so OP and me using the 787b to complete it, however the GT-R LM Nismo for some reason worked fine on some of the races and I would like more Group C and LM cars to return too
I'm not sure it matters that much in the context of the video, but as a young automotive designer starting my career in an OEM, I can say that developing a concept like that is an incredibly fun and rewarding experience, and watching some of the development of these cars in the gt6 presentations was very impactful for me as a young teen. I think this program was partly responsible for inspiring a generation of young automotive designers. And from the professional perspective, it's not often that we get the chance to work on a car with so little restriction, being able to prioritize the design vision and proportions without needing to worry about feasibility (especially inside the OEM studios, where we are always very bound by tight packaging parameters when working with production cars), which leads to a lot of creative exploration that can be end up being impactful in developing some actual production cars further down the line. These are the cars that we dream of making in our perfect car design utopia lol.
its actually pretty genius to add VR and a car with no windshield in the same update that way people who dont own VR can still get the same experience if they just put a blindfold on
'Players are not the primary focus.' GT has just been seemingly distancing itself from what players enjoy. Since GT5 the game has been dumbed down with each title, and with GT7 their attempt to claw their way back is more like making camp in the hole they dug themselves into. I actually like some of the VGT cars, but I don't want to see them exist in 'The Real Driving Simulator'. I don't see how a game with an FIA partnership can also use cars that do not and some that cannot exist in the real world. The racing varients should not exist, regulations exist for real cars... The whole point of a concept car is for designers to explore limitless ideas. If the car is built in real life then sure, but irl GT classes are for cars you can buy road versions of. I feel like some exceptions could exist, a gr.3 BMW VGT would probably be cool, but again I'm somebody who'd want this effort going into a fake version of a real car like GT already has. The racing version cars from GT5/6 were exactly this and they were somewhat real designs. I can't think of an ideal way to use VGT in game because you would annoy all groups eventually. If they are added like any road car then you get people like me saying they are not real and shouldn't be used by the player or opponents. But if they are completly useless as they pretty much are now, then what's the point of them existing... I think GT6's implentation was the best since you never really saw them but the choice to use them was there. But I honestly can't trust Polyphony making a good decision with the scarce event updates. If they were only able to be used by players then I would say that's a strong option. If you want to have fun, go research what GT HD was meant to be, I did this a few years ago and found some very interesting info. Bikes from TT on the same course as cars and features that were only added in GTS. I saved links and pics if you are interested since tcrf doesn't have any.
So basically Vision Gran Turismo in a nutshell: Good for car designers and car manufactures to express their car designs, but very useless for the players who played the game. I still like Vision Gran Turismo cars though despite all of that.
VGT cars are cool, but not good. Whenever I see a VGT car, then I feel like "ok, whatever" and forget about them. Its a nice idea, but not done very well. Because I would find a returning car from the PS1/PS2 titles more interesting than yet another VGT car. They aren't bad in any sense, just underused. Maybe even make the prices more understanding than 1,000,000 cr.
I love how they advertised all these cars that never got released in GT6. Odd considering Sony had lost a lawsuit for taking away Linux support for the PS3, prior to the game, because it was an advertised feature. i actually liked the idea of Vision GT. The aspect i liked most about the game was collecting real cars and being able to experience them. GT always had cars other games didn't especially concept cars. Adding these concept cars made it as if they actually put them into production. And it's quite interesting to see what manufacturers can design without all these (necessary) regulations. I was excited every time the game was uptaded with a new VGT, however i have only played up to GT6. That Italdesign can just fuck right off though.
I got a suspicion that the BMW VGT is the basis for the design of the BMW 3.0 CSL HOMMAGE, which is a car you earn in the early stages of a playthrough of ASPHALT 9: Legends. Yet another example of car companies using a VGT as a basis for something else.
I really believe that many car companies would rather put their concepts in a game like this rather than create a rolling chassis. These virtual vehicles arent for the gamers, they're for the manufacturers who make this game possible to tinker with ideas. A virtual vehicle is far less expensive than a tangible vehicle. Large scale auto shows started to decline in popularity in the late 00's and they took a steep nose dive during/after Covid.
Overall, I feel like I paid $110 for a game that makes me grind more than a free game like war thunder to unlock cars and the real workd pricing just frusted me mostly bc now I never have enough money to get the cars I want to drive in a virtual world mimicking the wrong part of the real world which reminds me I can never afford the real car or virtual cars… thanks GT
The only VGT I've ever gave a crap about was the Bugatti Vision GT, and now I guess the McLaren Vision GT can come into that because its being produced irl as the Solus GT. And the Bugatti has one real example of their VGT. Other than that, they're all fancy fictional cars you'd expect to see in ROBLOX.
Something curious about the GTC cars in GT6 if you enter in photo mode these cars actually have an modeled interior and I don't get why they decided to not making them visible in the cockpit view out of photo mode
As someone who's been a huge Gran Turismo fan since 2, I'm definitely one of those players who enjoyed having funky, quirky concept cars in the games before but has grown sick and tired of the VGT cars. And I wonder if it's not nessecerily the VGT cars themselves, but what they represent in terms of the franchise, that has garnered such a negative response. Their introduction in GT6 coincided with the beginning of the decline of the GT franchise as a whole, with the lazy recycled content and stripped-back career modes only being exacerbated by the constant VGT add-ons as mentioned. GT Sport being so esports focused and not even having a career mode altogether on launch only magnified how pointless and redundant the VGT cars were, and then the attempts to fix it by shoving VGT cars into races against real-life LMP1 cars in Group 1 was so annoying - I'd love to be able to race REAL amazing Le Mans cars, in the REAL driving simulator, against other REAL cars, and not glamorised Hot Wheels toys with broken BOP. And now GT7, with such a pathetic excuse for a career mode with no event variety and an emphasis on grinding the same events OVER AND OVER AGAIN for stupidly overpriced rare cars (or paying real money for them, ew) just trashed the whole series for me. And all along, the VGT cars have basically become a mascot for GT's downfall. They aren't the source of these problems, but have become emblematic of them.
When vision gt was announced, my understanding was that it was to celebrate 15 years of gran turismo. So these cars would all be released & featured for GT6. Not go on for another 2 games over 10 years later...
I think the idea of VGT is very cool. Some stunning cars, but almost ZERO purpose, besides talking to yourself and say, "Ohh how pretty these cars are..." While it appears to be a little bit better in GT7 with some of the cars modified to Gr.1 etc. and therefore making it more useful, I find it hard to support the idea. I mean, Polyphony really didn't think through with the pricing, performance and whatever, and one clear thing to prove this is the Mercedes AMG VGT *Racing series*. It has matching PP for Gr.3 if you adjust the downforce correspondingly to the other racecars (400 Front, 650 Rear), it is a racecar (all be it a concept one) and performs pretty well when you race alongside the Gr. 3 cars in a custom race. IT DOESN'T HAVE A GR. 3 CLASSIFICATION?!
Nike still hasn't given us our cool shoe car, come on nike, whip it up
Da meme car… the good days 😢
Spongebob: Hey, this mf got them fake J̶o̶r̶d̶a̶n̶s̶ Nike ONEs!
Squidward: *running for his life* I gotta get outta here!
But mario kart did better
JUST DO IT.
Ford and GM design as well
The main problem with VGT is that games have gotten so overcompetitive that not even the brands themselves are allowed to have fun anymore. It's suposed to be a casual addition for fun rather than another point for competition, i get that it could have been incorporated in a better way, but more content should always be seen as better as long as it doesn't break the game. Gran Turismo used to be the simulator for everyone, now it's been taken over by the competitive scene and it's no longer what it once was. VGT made sense until GT Sport came out, just like Jay Leno's tank car being in game
so bored of everything having an esports focus nowadays
The way pd began to focus on esport is the day when we realized the fall of gran turismo
@@sehhmie5483 The tipping point was GT4. But if someone made an updated GT1 and GT2 with maybe a few little extras I'd probably completely ignore and forget the rest of the series.
@@vycanismelodisThat brings money... big companies are ran by more and more money! EA games, PD, 2K... every game is really focused on esports and competition, so forget the good old single player sit-in-the-house-after-school days
@@theportugueselegend The problem is that esports does not make money, they are losses to the company for the fun of the players. The esports are there to maintain playerbase attention, once the game's playerbase dipped because the developer did enough controversial things, no amount of esports event will bring those disillusioned players back.
It has become pretty apparent that Kaz at least as he's getting older (ie the last 10-ish years) has begun seeing cars more as beautiful things to be looked at and appreciated, as art even. And much like more modern games that try hard to be art rather than games, the "game" part of the videogame for Kaz and Polyphony is almost a vestigial part or their product, an ancient relic that they perceive to be an annoying obstacle they have to include in their product in order to market and sell said art product as a video game.
I like me some car pr0n, don't get me wrong but just making something that is visually impressive and beautiful does not equate to making a good game.
If you put all your focus into "Oooh pretty", then the game you end up making is in a similar vein to the Need For Speed reboot in 2015
Surely the best way to appreciate a car would be to give it its own missions not trapping it in a white room. I don’t think anyone would complain about a Jazz championship if it meant everything else also got one.
@@MuscleCarLoversome people aren't going to like your comparison but you're right, that game was a great screenshot simulator but the actual gameplay was crap
@@effrumtheretardo the photomode is pretty bad in that game ironically enough.
Gt7 is The Order 1886 of video games
Excellent points in the video. Just to add a few small points of my own:
Vision GT cars often look comical, almost like a caricature of what a car should look like, and it very much clashes with the ultra realistic look and feel of the game. The Merc VGT for example, has tyres so low profile, they look painted on. The Volkswagen Supersport has no fuel inlet anywhere. Many don't even come with reverse lights or turn signals. Most are set to scrape on their own shadow even on a textureless, mirror smooth racetrack, and with non adjustable suspension, they just spark like crazy and are a bumbling mess on laser scanned real tracks. Oh, and some of these shadow scraping cars can even fit dirt tyres, which should tell you everything you need to know about how much thought goes into these things.
Which brings me to my second point: most of them drive so God awful that it's completely inconceivable to me that anyone test drove these monstrosities before greenlighting them. Back in GT Sport, the Subaru VIZIV will wheelspin in 3rd despite having AWD, and its torque vectoring just instantly spun the car upon turning the steering wheel. Same with the INFINITI VGT. I mean, hell, the Jag VGT gave us the first (and only, if I'm not mistaken) red flag in Gran Turismo history, to give some context on how awful these things are to drive.
In a series that has traditionally included many duplicate cars and highlighted the minute differences between them, Gran Turismo has really made me appreciate the small, mechanical improvements that go into a car as it ages. Now imagine Dodge coming along and claiming they can make more than 2,500HP from a 7 Litre V10. Chevy saying they can propel a car with lasers. It just feels like a playground fight between children to see who can exaggerate the best. Now imagine those playground kids being given the power to materialise their fantasies. It instantly invalidates any and all of the hard work that real engineers do to satisfy safety, emissions, and reliability standards to bring a car to market. It feels like a direct slap across the face to race these outlandish and improbable VGT cars with real cars.
Back in the earlier GT games, the fictional cars weren't so egregious. The Dodge Copperhead looks like it could be produced and rub shoulders with an NSX, sure. The del sol LM looked hilarious, but it could run with the other LM racecars no problem. The RX-7 LM is actually based on an obscure 15th anniversary body kit Mazdaspeed offered. Even though they were fictional, they had roots in reality, and didn't feel out of place to look at or to drive. That I feel is the main difference between fictional cars in earlier GT games versus the stupid VGTs we have now.
Even if VGT cars materalise, they often don't share much with the original VGT. The McLaren Ultimate VGT uses a familiar sounding V8 engine, features a novel prone driving position, and has my favourite cockpit view in the entire game. The McLaren Solus has none of that. The only link to the VGT program it can claim is just in styling. That just feels incredibly skin deep to me.
As you said in the video, VGT cars aren't for the players. They feel like cheap, marketing ploys at best and being forced to watch Kaz and car manufacturers circle jerk one another at worst.
My problem with the VGT cars is their styling.
Some of them do look cool like the BMW VGT and the Lexus VGT while others are just absurd like the Chevrolet Chaparral 2X or the Italdesign VGT.
Other than that, I completely agree with you; VGT feels like a marketing gimmick.
@@Zhawn7 If they looked like actual things that might actually be actually drivable they'd be alright but too many of them look like absolute trash made by people who mashed buttons in blender.
@@demomanchaos Bro I just realised that the Italdesign VGT looks like it hasn't even loaded its textures 💀
Great post. I played Gran Turismo from the first game, and I also loved learning the small changes and improvements over a brand or a model's lifetime. The new games lack that opportunity, and they're worse for it.
My biggest mistake was taking the Volkswagen IDR on a night race....if you've ever tried you know the pain
the intro part of the video makes me wish that in custom races we can race against 40+ cars in a gt7 update
Seemed cool in GT6. Was very annoyed to not see it really pan out, and most of the cars were half assed. Was very annoyed to see that it's still in the game in gt7, I don't care about these hideous concept cars anymore.
We have been asking for more actual product cars since GT5, but Kaz only cares about what he only wants to put into the game
He is the Elon Musk of video games lol
@@xXVibrantSnowXx Yep, even has an army of idiots who cosign every random thing he does too. Just like Elon
I feel as though the issue largely comes down to, like it always does, time and development. The amount of patience and effort to not only wait for manufacturers to design these cars and put them in the game, but also to balance them performance-wise and price them in relation to their utility and PP while also making sure they perform uniquely from one another (which given how much of dickthroats car manufacturers are, they'd probably raise hell if their car was treated as lesser than others), would take an agonizing amount of time and work, even more work then I would presume the Gran Turismo games usually have go into them.
The creation of Vision GT without planning ahead was a giant fuckup for Polyphony.
Personally I like seeing what designers do with VGT cars. I agree with your points that their should be more use for them in the game other than something to look at, but there's definitely a part of Gran Turismo that isn't for players, but more for the people who are interested in things like design and history.
I heard Ridge Racer PSP music, very underrated soundtrack 👀
Made for GT7 but not made useful for GT7, the fine margin xd
28:39 Forza player perspective - yes. It's honestly pretty cool that GT gets this status and recognition, something Forza doesn't seem to have as well (though they did help in designing the Ford GT).
The Tomohawk had me watching hours of VGT content and it's always looked pretty cool to me.
i was literally about to start work
but that can wait since roflwaffle dropped a new vid
Work can wait
Imagine we did get that Bugatti VGT
I don't like Vision GT cars. I don't like the mixing of real and fake and I cannot appreciate the engineering of something that doesn't exist. Would rather have more everyday cars. Toyota Tercel fifth gen rust bucket edition when?
Exactly
"Give us something mid-engined and supercharged."
What Polyphony thinks we want: Koenigsegg CCX
What we actually want: Toyota Previa
I was so happy when I found the clapped out Honda civic livery lol
I grew up with the Gran Turismo series. I've owned every title released in the U.S., starting with the original game. Sport was a huge disappointment. Gran Turismo 7 is the first of their games I've decided not to buy, and I don't feel like I'm missing out. It's not the same series I loved. Oh, well...
30:58
The Hyundai N 2025 Vision GT was also featured in the Roblox game "Hyundai Mobility Adventure", but it's a manufacturer racing game, so I digress.
I kinda wish that they can make that same magic when they make "LM Editions" in the past, but who am I to speak? (given the state of the game)
among all the VGT, there's 4 that is unforgettable.
Bugatti Chiron VGT, Nike 2020, SRT Tomahawk and Red Bull 2010.
One become a reality which is Bugatti Chiron.
All thoe, The Bugatti VGT is a modified Pre Production of a Bugatti Chiron.
the nissan gtr vision still haunts me to this day
Why? I looks cool to me.
Now in 2023, we still got the same GT-R
@@D_LGND True. Maybe manufacturers shouldn't put a specific year on the VGT cars. The Nike ONE was supposed to come out in 2022, it didn't, the Nissan GT-R VGT was supposed to come out in 2020, it didn't. How much you wanna bet that the Tomahawk VGT doesn't come out in 2035?
@@JustGenius2001 Idk I don’t bet
@@D_LGND I guess we'll have to wait and see for 12 years...
I’m just sick of g7’s grinding so I can enjoy driving different cars…at least with the old system from gt sport, I would get a car for driving 25miles even if it’s the same same every 3rd time.
The rillettes game in gt7 feels rigged to always give the minimum prise and I unlock a bew car once a week instead of daily since I normally play online with one or two friends.
Then gt7 really messed up the realistic driving characteristics making them feel more arcady on the g29 wheel.
I’ve owned actual corvettes and driven cars from the 488, hurricane (on track), gt4 Porsche, nsx, 720s (best car to drive for the rental money), c7 z06 with power-sliding it…meanwhile in g7… if I do a burnout off the line, my vette wips around almost immediately in an unpredictable manner which doesn’t exist in the real world nor in gt sport or gt5 which i used to learn how to drift before comparing drifting in the real world and those older games felt more realistic and more worthwhile teaching me actually throttle, braking, and wheel soeed skills….currently gt7 is unpredictable with any car in any turn with any type of slight understeer and have been really frustrating bc it disconnects me from real sim driving when comparing to real world practice
Hi Roflwaffle, love your work, I wanted to ask whether you had any thoughts on or would consider doing a video on what I call the "Unnecessary Realism Tax", since I haven't seen you tackle this angle yet. Essentially what this boils down to is the excuse/tax that apparently everything in GT7 takes so long to develop which is why the gameplay and us as players get taxed because of it. For example, cars take 270 days to make, city/street tracks are missing because they take too long to model realistically (I believe Kaz said this at some point), weather and day/night cannot be added to each track because it is too hard, cost of cars in game is ridiculous because that's how much they cost irl... I'm sure you can think of more examples :)
You touched on this in your track design video where you mentioned original tracks being "updated" to be more realistic at the expense of being fun. Ultimately I think a balance should be met between how much time is allocated to making a game "realistic" vs actually making it fun. I feel this is one of the reasons why GT7 players are returning to older GT titles because gameplay for them is more important than seeing a high res aircon dial in cockpit view. Your thoughts on this?
Yep, completely agree. I've actually had a video like that on the back burner for a while now, not just about GT7 but racing games as a whole (GT7 is of course the best example), so I do plan on tackling that at some point
@@Roflwaffle16 Awesome, look forward to it. In the meantime keep doing what you're doing 👍
That is just a continuation how GT always was. The old GT games all feature a lot of race cars which don't have specific events for their specific racing category, like the GT1, D1GP, Super Taikyu, etc class cars. Oftentimes only a few or even just a single car out of a whole category is featured. This was balanced through PP only, basically fixing the problem rudimentary. The new, more actual class-based hybrid system is just not harmonizing well with the car selection. Project Cars 2 is a better example of how to select a car list for competitive racing, all while featuring more than a few categories, like Assetto Corsa Competizione or GTR2 do.
Interestingly, the FIA is basically going the performance points way in real life, with their new performance factor regulations in hillclimb racing. Although I'd argue that this system is a bit more fleshed out than GT's performance points, where sometimes downforce isn't even a factor.
Wait, could the r35 concept be the mystery car for in one gt trailer 3:35
If we are thinking of the same white car, it turns out it's just some random 3d model from online. Not an actual car
What my view is VGT is not practical in game at all. The high prize and unable to upgradge makes them useless. It's more like car designers' fashion show products, just to tell you what is the design language they are going to put on their furture products. For a game to promote car culture, this is not a bad idea, but game designers just forget to make them practical to make players remember them
Jesus Christ what the hell happened to Gran Turismo, the fun racing simulatorish game with big heart
I guess they should've never touch e-sport
I think I'll gladly take car companies trying genuine interaction with gaming community and legitimization of racing games rather than a couple of random cars that would arguably see even less use, not that VGTs compete for spots with actual cars or anything.
When it came to gt cars mixing with normal- I said make 3 categories. Real, mix, and visions. Make the vision special but allow players to learn their type and compete with the other to see if the visions are better or just the same!
31:07 I've heard of GT removing cars like Lotus' offerings before... it's baffling and I can't think of anything except Real Racing 3's first NASCAR mode dying that's like it.
the BMW one is really cool though!
Imo if they'd allow tuning, add interiors and to enter events (or make cups/exclusive events with several pp categories for vision gts) like normal cars I'd be totally content with them.
Edit: that srt tomahawk looks more like a McLaren than a Dodge 😂
Sometimes it feels like Kaz is like Steve Jobs. Both are visionary, smart, and have made something that impacted the world. But they are equally stubborn lol
I just use Ferrari VGT for hypercar parade races and Infiniti VGT for USA make races. I got those both for free lol. They cost so much so I would never pay 1m for each.
Now you told me about the Vision Gran Turismo, i have to sell it in Sport! But what about the racer cars? From now on, I'm just gonna use Normal cars! Besides collecting cars is like catching a Pokémon but with Cars! Let me tell you this, in GT Sport, i tried using Vision GT Toyota in Professional mode! I thought that car will surpass the other or same cars, but I've been held back at 20 position and i didn't win the race! So that's why I sold it! When i get GT7, I'll just drive normal cars from now on!
Edit: Actually, I don't care anymore, I can still use VGT car!
The fact they even make the car in real life is so cool and test it in the game not a fail at all its a win
I remember I got really bored with GT Sport so I decided to spend an hour or two grinding out a very lucrative event to afford every Vision GT car in the game. After an hour or two of toying around with them, I got bored again and quit the game entirely.
Looking at what 7 does with its game mechanics, I will probably get bored with it before I even get through the title screen. It’s sad, because racing games should ideally be an endless thrill, not a boring slog full of pointless gimmicks.
VGT: "Oh no! Anyway..."
I have to be honest with you, I love Forza, it feels like such a complete experience that tries so hard to deliver us, the players the best they can.
And then there's Gran Turismo which I really, really like but I don't love. It feels like a product for me to consume.
Forza is like an Android Phone and Gran Turismo is like an iPhone. Both have their ups and downs but GT/Apple feel like they don't think about you, they only think about ripping you off while making you think you are paying for a luxury.
Personally, the game shifted its directions, this can be seen by Kaz's influences.
You can see the split of competition vs the essence about automotive culture and history.
Both can be blended well, but some dont. vGT lies in the experimental part of Kaz trying to echo automotive's brand art direction for a platform. It was a good it earlier year of 2010s but compare the theme now vs gt7 and gtS its complete different direction.
Personally it helped to give automotive designers a free headspace to come up their shiny sports cars they dreamt off, but thats only it. A brand's dna direction for mkt purposes.
Just my 2 cents.
i herd gt6 had a lot of the same car just a repaint like team colors ect idk i never noticed it but maybe there was
I do like a mixture of real and fake stuff, like Driver SF, where all the main cars were real, but it had fake utility vehicles and a few others like that one car they had purely to explode it. Overall though, VGT is just a case of great idea, terrible execution, and its a shame.
This is just my personal opinion:
VGT cars are supposed to be previews for their future design of cars and the manufacturers can tune it way too high or way too low to their liking. In most cases as you mentioned, it's for their benefit, not the players.
The players themselves wanted "REAL LIFE RACING SIMULATORS" and found themselves in IRacing or Asetto Corsa, and I can't blame them. But as what we have seen from the numerous iterations of GT, they are actually more used with in-house data input rather than data input FROM PLAYERS when it comes to being a DRIVING simulator.
Also, remember GT being the standard in pushing PS hardware to absolutes? Other games are doing it, even better than GT even.
Fun part for me is that the latest GT Sport lets me move at a snail's pace. If I can't defeat the cup now, I can try it at a later time. Sport mode for me is running lap times and that's it. PSN accounts are free anyway and there's no need for subscription.
He really never reused footage of the all yellow race. Went through all that work for 10 seconds, you absolute legend.
Yep. This one is absolute MEGA.
Vision GT cars shouldn’t cost anything but time because they’re just promotional. These should be prize rides for events and that’s all.
Getting the prize of a certain car brand VGT after completing certain car brand events sounds really rewarding, game design wise.
Exactly. Maybe these should be rewarded for completing certain events in B-Spec mode.
Speaking of which, why didn't B-Spec mode make a comeback in GT7 yet? (I'm willing to bet Roflwaffle will probably make a video about that as well)
@@IvanovIvanAKrutoi Because it is online only game and to have that and have the internet go down or server’s to go down for maintenance or general downage will cut out the b spec. Unless you could theoretically save between race would work but that is something that needs to be thought of first
@@evandaymon8303 That's my point, they shouldn't have made GT7 online-only in the first place!
If (and when) Polyphony decides to end support for the game and shut down the servers for good, I hope they'll at least be generous enough to launch an "offline" version of GT7 to compensate, like what Capcom did with Mega Man X DiVE when its servers will inevitably shut down.
@@IvanovIvanAKrutoi not against your idea just that it can’t happen right now while game still gets update and still online only.
"GT by Citroen" sounds like a perfume brand.
"GT... by Citroën... The new fragrance... for men"
Eau du car... lacome, ou lala bagette oui 😂😂😂😂
@@FurryestX XDDD
You're giving them ideas. Hilarious ideas.
I released a fragrance once. Had to blame the dog.
Dang, I read that in ad man's deep voice...
Vgt was a wonderful idea on paper, but… well… A lot of the cars don’t behave, since they were never developed in the real world. Those that stick closest to real cars are the best, but then you might as well get the real thing.
I’d love it if they used real life concept cars again, I miss the Furai. Which for a very obvious reason we can’t ever get back. Unless Mazda can be persuaded to build a replica. Please do.
How about the gr3 roadcars? I used the Mustang as a rwd rallycar in gts and loved it. In gt7 it’s stuck at 1500kg, and for all the power it’s sooo sloooow…
I respect your opinion but I have a different one, I see the VGT as a project where the brands not only show what they can do, but literally change the technology in car industry.
That's why I love the concept of the Chaparral 2X, Tomahawk X, McLaren and even Italdesign. Laser propulsion is something really interesting that it could be used in space exploration first but who knows if a car could use as an engine, the wings of the tomahawk X are incredible but is overshadowed by the overpowered engine that it's completely non-realistic, the way you "sit" in the McLaren it drops the gravity point, and the brake from the italdesign outside from the wheel, cooling the brakes faster than if they were inside
@@MrGuiagui I didn’t refer to the means of propulsion, although I wouldn’t like to sit behind a laser propelled car at the traffic lights :)
I used one of the Jags for the vgt races, and the way it handled… I was so annoyed with that setup, but we’re denied the opportunity to do a better job ourselves. That’s what I meant: the setup should be done for real, or we should get the means to adjust it at least
Especially on GT7 every time I looked at Vision Gran Turismo cars I couldn't help but think "cool looking, but why focus on these instead of bringing in the game other cars that are infinitely more popular than what these will ever be?" Especially in a game that had no focused events for around half the cars available ingame.
"Vision" program should have stayed as a fun concept work of a handful of a vehicle years ago, not turning GT into a grind version of Ridge racer.
It should have been GT6 exclusive, But they haven´t finished half of the cars during GT6 when they were actually wanted.
I play forza, and I hate how there isn't a Vision GT equivalent in forza
@@falcongamer58 lol forza has enough cartoon cars already.
I miss Ridge Racer.
@@hitpeppens2932you can still play it in ps4
I think Gran Turismo hasn't been necessarily strictly about realism, but rather car CULTURE, and concept cars are a part of that. They certainly need to be implemented better, but they have their place in the game
Indeed. I've always seen Gran Turismo less as a sim racer and more as a weird RPG-like, where you choose your cars, upgrade them, win championships, etc. A game about enjoying cars in a (horse)power fantasy fuelled by stage 4 turbos.
Concept cars in this context are like race cars, more of trophies / curiosities than something core to my playstyle, and I prefer to have them to break up the monotony of stock cars.
Plus, without these odd cars we wouldn't have fun stuff like bringing a Suzuki Escudo to the sunday cup lol
@@migueeeelet Your comparing it to an RPG does kinda make sense. And I mean, how many RPGs don't have cool weapons and equipment that look awesome but are practically useless? That's just a part of the experience in those games, and to a lesser extent the same can be true in GT
@@migueeeeletplus, for it to be a sim racer, it'd need to have actual realism in its physics and feel
Car culture goes completely beyond these concept cars, they compose less than 1% of it.
This is like making a soccer game but focusing mainly and only on how the ball looks like.
You want "car culture"? Play NFS Underground. Even in Japan, those who wanted to modify their cars a bit put weird cosmetic shit in and on their cars - 'look at my flashy new spinning hubs' (FFS). The ones with sense, modified whatever they could in relation to performance. The ones with proper money added or replaced components - intercoolers, turbos, flywheels, the suspension, entire frigging engines...
If you want to get serious about cars, and more exclusively - what GT originally focussed on over a quarter of a century ago - the actual effects of modifying and adjusting actual bits on the car that actually make differences, no matter how obvious or subtle, now you're playing the game as I imagine Kazunori Yamauchi initially intended Gran Turismo to be. The fact that money has hit his head and Gran Turismo is no longer focussed on adjusting components on your car and then racing with simulated acceleration, deceleration, cornering, et cetera, means that GT is a cash cow for the sheer sake of it being a cash cow. People play GT (I assume) expecting to get the best car in the game, and racing it as if adjustments to the camber or the damper or the ride height are auxiliary (or worse, 'superfluous'). The ones complaining about the state of GT today are the ones who have undoubtedly been playing GT since GT4 at the absolute latest. The ones who aren't complaining are the ones that GT has decided to target the game towards - boneheads who just 'pick up' a car, 'add a thousand horses' to it, and then 'blitz the competition', with sweet frigg all in terms of technique. 'Just go slow around the corners, and pass them on the straights'. 🤦 So much for "culture".
That bit for the race of yellow cars was simply hilarious, I'd love to see that snippet in its own short video
I love the idea of the project and some of the results are absolutely fantastic in terms of design, as you say we even see some of the ideas from VGT having an impact.
Concept Cars have always been one of my favourite categories of the Automotive world as you can see what Engineers and Designers are capable of when they're given loose parameters with no expectation of having to produce the car.
If used properly the VGT program could be such a strength for the franchise as even normal concept cars tend to be very rare in other racing games. Having any concept cars be drivable in games is so fantastic as they can basically live a new life they'd never have otherwise, if they're built in a driving form irl then they tend to just end up in storage or collections if they're not dismantled at some point. VGT is just the cherry on top for me as you can see what some manufacturers have on their mind if they were unshackled in the current times and in the coming years.
The implementation though leaves so much to be desired, as you say PD definitely needs to massively rethink what the hell to do with them. At the moment they're just interesting showpieces for the most part unfortunately.
Absolutely right…
Cant believe its already been a year since the nike car released🤯
or was planned to be..
I’m still waiting for Nissan to make their VGT but now we got the same GT-R with little tweaks
This is why modding is so important in gaming, if the game allows mods I'm pretty sure someone will make these VGT cars able to race against each other! And possibility are endless!
Easy fix for the inclusion of concept cars debate: After doing a full integration of concept cars into events with production/racing cars, give the players an option to toggle concept cars in races as opponents. Gives the player the choice of how they play.
I gonna create my VGT car: A Hybrid Toyota Sprinter Trueno AE86 retrolike style, using a combined engine with 1143 HP engine and a giant spoiler who magically change the downforce using AI real time calculations. Resume: VGT is a great bs.
TBH, I love the VGT cars. Even before I even got Gran Turismo since I first saw them in a video called "150 Rare Cars in Video Games". From then on, even if I think Real Cars should also be added, I still have a heart for VGT Cars. Heck, I even wanted some car brands to join the VGT game like Koenigsegg, Pagani and Acura (even if Honda joined in). But then again GT Brats gonna be GT Brats (GT Brats are just GT players who complain or even btch and moan) that will still complain even if the most requested cars like the LFA, 992 GT3 and Dodge Demon are in the game and demand for real cars or call the most requested cars "boring". Besides those people are just the human versions of the slang word, "killjoy". They ruin people's fun when those said people say they like VGTs.
(TBH, I always remember that before I bought my first GT Game. I would usually screenshot some VGTs and keep them since all of them, excluding the DP100 and Italdesign, are good looking imo. Even if they're all useless, aside from the Gr.1 and Gr.3 variants, or even I might never use any of them or might sell them when I don't feel like keeping them, I can still look at those VGTs and understand that VGT cars shows that creative freedom still exist.)
I remember Vision GT actually didn’t bother me in GT6 because I was already pretty entertained with 1000+ cars in the game. It started to feel like bad additions in GT Sport and 7 since the car choices felt so limited.
Re the 499P: there is almost definitely a licensing issue with the upcoming Le Mans game because it's good ol Motorsport Games.
Who simulatenously locked in NASCAR, INDYCAR, and Le Mans in one swoop, has so far only delivered NASCAR games that are a complete buggy tragedy.
Forza pulled off the fictional cars card way better, as that franchise had fictional cars from videogames like Fallout, Final Fantasy or Cyberpunk that are fully modeled and fully useable.
I still think the Quartz Regalia is one of the coolest cars that they added way back in Horizon 3.
@@sabersz Yeah, specially when you can have a trophy truck version of that car.
That, the Quadra V-Tec and the Chryslus Rocket 69, really amazing looking cars.
You really comparing cheap, out of place fanservice to actual interaction between car companies and gaming/racing studio and its community?
@@sabersz It's in FH3 and FH4
9:49 The biggest mistake that was in Vision GT is actually not having insane race tracks for the insane cars.
Take the NFS2SE as an example; the insane track options where designed about the insanely diverse concept cars. Now, it's insane cars designed for sane tracks.
You should see the alternative layout for Special Stage Route X
@@D_LGNDI've heard that was for physics testing, not to be actually playable
it's all about the brand's prestige in my opinion, GT always envision itself as a mature, elegant, a racing game for the cultured. Vision GT is an extension of that, "look at us, even Bugatti and Ferrari designed cars for us!" i don't think Polyphony or Kaz ever think about what to do with these cars, they just want a collection of cool cars designed by real companies in the automotive industry to show how important their game is.
One area they need to improve is hybrid. They need a option to put it in charge mode and overtake mode. After the first lap you run completely out of energy. And it barely recharges under braking.
hybrids and EVs
Yea, seeing people ran out of electricity in lmp1 since first lap is kinda annoying
Get outta here with that. Hybrid is the reason these VGT cars hardly make a noise!
"Not going to build an attachment"
*mourns for the death of Tomahawk X grind at Tokyo Expressway*
I think VGT is kinda cool, it's just that for whatever reason, the usage for them is insanely limited.... (which is crazy considering how far apart many are in performance)
I am a great fan of VGT simply because I love car design, especially outrageous car design like the Alpine and Dodge VGT. However I completely agree that they make no sense to exist in GT, they just don't feel like they belong because of the things you have explained in this video.
VGT cars are all ugly, except maybe the Bugatti, i would rather have real cars present in the game, regardless if those VGT were strictly placed or not, i don't want them, i don't need them, & don't use them
@@xXVibrantSnowXx So?
@@xXVibrantSnowXxsurely you must make an exception for the Ferrari which was closely designed with their new LMH in mind , that and it's considered a road car so you can blast many events haha
@@Mikauo_Xblade "sO" 🤓
@@xXVibrantSnowXxThe world revolves around your needs and wants?
I don't think VGT cars are all that bad, most VGT fans are "quiet" about while the haters are "loud" about it
To be fair, the developers never promised any sort of proper usability for the VGT cars in the game - the project's main goal was to inspire manufacturers to get involved with the game, thus strengthening a positive relationship between them and the franchise. By the looks of it, this goal is achieved and there's more to come I guess.
That being said, there's a win-win scenario as manufacturers get exposure and players get free cars. Sure, some of these cars are definitely not worth of general attention if any at all (like Daihatsu, Mini, ItalDesign or Zagato), some are meh but OK overall (like Infinity and BMW) and some are just epic (like Mazda, Toyota, Lexus). There's definitely some room for appreciation.
To each of his own.
Design and create? Really?
No, it's to create a ridiculous body, then pull obscene performance numbers out of their butts. It's never been anything more than crass branding and it was a detriment to the game when on many occasions the best cars for particular tracks are cars that COULD NEVER EXIST.
Why not just add the 'cars' from Wipeout as well?
Fuck yeah, Wipeout LETS GOOOOO
Those 'cars' are called ships
I hate the fact that gran turismo gives us that many concepts but not more modern cars
Exactly. Useless updates with repetitive old model cars
@@markthegamedriverwe literally just got the Valkyrie
@@euphoriaggaminghdlook at how many cars younger than 2020 are in the game and compare it with the rest of the car list. Now look at how many interesting cars got released after 2020 that we still don't have.
GT is still living in the 2000s with a feet in the early 2010s, with a gameplay design that is still in the late 90s...Taking out the atrocious microtransactions and FOMO aside because those are certainly stuff they took from modern gaming, much to our chagrin.
@@euphoriaggaminghdAnd the C8 Corvette, Chiron (which I wanted in Sport a while ago)
@@euphoriaggaminghdDon't forget the Last update, that gave us the GR Corolla and MC20 ☝️
I think the coolest thing about Vision was seeing the design cues trickle down into production vehicles.
To add to the VGT cars in other games, the Citroën ended up in Asphalt 9
Also semi related fun fact, I believe Asphalt 9 was the first game to have an official licenced "Hypercar" (LMH/LMDh) with the SCG.
Did you mean a Glickenhaus? Yes, is it.
anotha roflwaffle certified hood classic gran turismo rant 🔥🔥🔥
GT7 is the biggest disappoinment in the series. To make it worse they don't communicate at all. We didn't get an update this month and no explanation why
I couldn't agree more with the video. Congrats. The only Vision car I feel attached to is the turbocharged Audi version of the E-tron. So much fun to drive. The E-Tron itself is just a curiosity...
after 20+ years, the most famous racing franchise could not integrate its vision gt cars into the game?! My question is, have they even tried to play it or do the developers exist in their own separate world where players spend all their time in a photo editor? It feels like the 2d...
The Mercedes-Benz AMG VGT (VeGeTable) you'd get for free in Gran Turismo 6 was a good way to grind Like The Wind B-Spec for easy money.
I remember in GT6, that was the only VGT I had purely because it was free
Tomahawk S is the most OP VGT in GT6 cause they can be used for 650PP, 750PP, and Road Car races
The only Vision Gran Turismo car I've ever bought was the SRT one in GT6 because it's easy to farm credits in a few advanced races.
It also works for 650PP races and Road Car races if you adjust it right, I bought the same car in GT7 but it’s less OP than it used to be
Gt7 plays less like a game and more like one giant ad for various manufacturers. At least they kept the spirit of gran turismo alive by adding 10 variants of the same japanese car per manufacturer while other countries recieve less in total in their showroom, some are almost a joke with how much alike they are. Like the imtegra type r. Same color, same body, same PP rating. But one is a 95 and one is a 98. Like why??
My issue with the VGT cars is that they are created with no constraints. In real life, you have to worry about chassis dynamics, packaging, designing a powerplant, and all other sorts of genuine issues that your design has to accommodate. With VGT, you end up with a bunch of cars that the manufacturer doesn't have the engineering capability to deliver (looking at you, SRT Tomahawks). You can make a car model that looks and handles like a spaceship and then decide that it would have 16000hp, but you don't have to deal with waste heat, material stresses, etc...there's no art without constraints.
I disagree. Tomahawk go brrrrrrr.
It’s art without engineering
literally a car oc, like some shit you would insert on a novel
Art can be anything. I liked the tomahawk and the vision that the creators saw. But, it had no competition thus, making it OP. It became as "ughghg really? My opponent chose this car? As expected."
VGT cars absolutely should be isolated due to how unrealistic they are. They're physics defying paper sheets. There's nothing stopping dodge from saying the tomahawk has ten billion horsepower from its 70 liter v30 and has zero doors or interior space.
I guess I'm one of those few who love Vision Gran Turismo cars. And opposite to you view I especially love those futuristic ones. At the end of the video you mentioned that "we're not going to be driving these things in real life anytime soon". That's right, but what the difference does it make if most of us are not going to be driving all the real Bugattis and Ferraris neither?
That is my main point. For most of us the real hypercars are just as much a fantasy cars as VGT's, so a Tomahawk S or even Tomahawk X isn't seem to be much more unrealistic than a Bugatti Chiron for example. Again, I get that my view is quite unique.
Yep, vgts are pure art, creativity and the passion of freedom that is truly part of being lovers of cars
Video title should be VGT=KICK
lol I remember that from the GT6 multiplayer days
Something that pull me off, is racing classic Le Mans cars such as 787B or R92CP against VGTs, it just ruins the immersion. Even tho I know, the game lacks classics LMPs cars in the first place to fill an entire race. And in fact, I miss that; I prefer the old cars, I miss those Pescarolo, Bentley Speed 8, Minolta 88c-v, 350z LM, GTR Falken LM etc...
Me either, I hate doing the le mans 30 minuted and racing agaisnt slow ass shit nowadays cars that dont compare to the amazing classics.
True cause back then in GT6 in 750PP races, I was always racing against LMPs but in GT7 Gr. 1 Proto series was hard for me to complete due to all VGTs being so OP and me using the 787b to complete it, however the GT-R LM Nismo for some reason worked fine on some of the races
and I would like more Group C and LM cars to return too
Always saw it as Ridge Racer X Gran Turismo.
I was thinking the same thing
I preffer Wipeout x Gran Turismo
Looks more cooler
@@FurryestX same
I'm not sure it matters that much in the context of the video, but as a young automotive designer starting my career in an OEM, I can say that developing a concept like that is an incredibly fun and rewarding experience, and watching some of the development of these cars in the gt6 presentations was very impactful for me as a young teen. I think this program was partly responsible for inspiring a generation of young automotive designers. And from the professional perspective, it's not often that we get the chance to work on a car with so little restriction, being able to prioritize the design vision and proportions without needing to worry about feasibility (especially inside the OEM studios, where we are always very bound by tight packaging parameters when working with production cars), which leads to a lot of creative exploration that can be end up being impactful in developing some actual production cars further down the line. These are the cars that we dream of making in our perfect car design utopia lol.
its actually pretty genius to add VR and a car with no windshield in the same update
that way people who dont own VR can still get the same experience if they just put a blindfold on
I miss the Fittipaldi, and my dad has been waiting for something with the Ford VGT since 6.
'Players are not the primary focus.'
GT has just been seemingly distancing itself from what players enjoy. Since GT5 the game has been dumbed down with each title, and with GT7 their attempt to claw their way back is more like making camp in the hole they dug themselves into.
I actually like some of the VGT cars, but I don't want to see them exist in 'The Real Driving Simulator'. I don't see how a game with an FIA partnership can also use cars that do not and some that cannot exist in the real world.
The racing varients should not exist, regulations exist for real cars... The whole point of a concept car is for designers to explore limitless ideas.
If the car is built in real life then sure, but irl GT classes are for cars you can buy road versions of. I feel like some exceptions could exist, a gr.3 BMW VGT would probably be cool, but again I'm somebody who'd want this effort going into a fake version of a real car like GT already has. The racing version cars from GT5/6 were exactly this and they were somewhat real designs.
I can't think of an ideal way to use VGT in game because you would annoy all groups eventually. If they are added like any road car then you get people like me saying they are not real and shouldn't be used by the player or opponents. But if they are completly useless as they pretty much are now, then what's the point of them existing... I think GT6's implentation was the best since you never really saw them but the choice to use them was there. But I honestly can't trust Polyphony making a good decision with the scarce event updates. If they were only able to be used by players then I would say that's a strong option.
If you want to have fun, go research what GT HD was meant to be, I did this a few years ago and found some very interesting info. Bikes from TT on the same course as cars and features that were only added in GTS. I saved links and pics if you are interested since tcrf doesn't have any.
So basically Vision Gran Turismo in a nutshell: Good for car designers and car manufactures to express their car designs, but very useless for the players who played the game.
I still like Vision Gran Turismo cars though despite all of that.
I understand the motoring industry needs concept cars but these days I completely ignore them in the game.
I forgot about the Fittipaldi. That was my favourite of all VGT cars because it was useable and realistic! Can't believe they got rid of it.
VGT cars are cool, but not good. Whenever I see a VGT car, then I feel like "ok, whatever" and forget about them. Its a nice idea, but not done very well. Because I would find a returning car from the PS1/PS2 titles more interesting than yet another VGT car. They aren't bad in any sense, just underused. Maybe even make the prices more understanding than 1,000,000 cr.
I love how they advertised all these cars that never got released in GT6. Odd considering Sony had lost a lawsuit for taking away Linux support for the PS3, prior to the game, because it was an advertised feature.
i actually liked the idea of Vision GT. The aspect i liked most about the game was collecting real cars and being able to experience them. GT always had cars other games didn't especially concept cars. Adding these concept cars made it as if they actually put them into production. And it's quite interesting to see what manufacturers can design without all these (necessary) regulations. I was excited every time the game was uptaded with a new VGT, however i have only played up to GT6.
That Italdesign can just fuck right off though.
I got a suspicion that the BMW VGT is the basis for the design of the BMW 3.0 CSL HOMMAGE, which is a car you earn in the early stages of a playthrough of ASPHALT 9: Legends. Yet another example of car companies using a VGT as a basis for something else.
I really believe that many car companies would rather put their concepts in a game like this rather than create a rolling chassis. These virtual vehicles arent for the gamers, they're for the manufacturers who make this game possible to tinker with ideas. A virtual vehicle is far less expensive than a tangible vehicle.
Large scale auto shows started to decline in popularity in the late 00's and they took a steep nose dive during/after Covid.
Overall, I feel like I paid $110 for a game that makes me grind more than a free game like war thunder to unlock cars and the real workd pricing just frusted me mostly bc now I never have enough money to get the cars I want to drive in a virtual world mimicking the wrong part of the real world which reminds me I can never afford the real car or virtual cars… thanks GT
The only VGT I've ever gave a crap about was the Bugatti Vision GT, and now I guess the McLaren Vision GT can come into that because its being produced irl as the Solus GT. And the Bugatti has one real example of their VGT.
Other than that, they're all fancy fictional cars you'd expect to see in ROBLOX.
It is nice to see other views of GT7 , yours is a critical view but done in a good positive way, is not a negative rant but informative and well done
Something curious about the GTC cars in GT6 if you enter in photo mode these cars actually have an modeled interior and I don't get why they decided to not making them visible in the cockpit view out of photo mode
As someone who's been a huge Gran Turismo fan since 2, I'm definitely one of those players who enjoyed having funky, quirky concept cars in the games before but has grown sick and tired of the VGT cars. And I wonder if it's not nessecerily the VGT cars themselves, but what they represent in terms of the franchise, that has garnered such a negative response.
Their introduction in GT6 coincided with the beginning of the decline of the GT franchise as a whole, with the lazy recycled content and stripped-back career modes only being exacerbated by the constant VGT add-ons as mentioned. GT Sport being so esports focused and not even having a career mode altogether on launch only magnified how pointless and redundant the VGT cars were, and then the attempts to fix it by shoving VGT cars into races against real-life LMP1 cars in Group 1 was so annoying - I'd love to be able to race REAL amazing Le Mans cars, in the REAL driving simulator, against other REAL cars, and not glamorised Hot Wheels toys with broken BOP. And now GT7, with such a pathetic excuse for a career mode with no event variety and an emphasis on grinding the same events OVER AND OVER AGAIN for stupidly overpriced rare cars (or paying real money for them, ew) just trashed the whole series for me.
And all along, the VGT cars have basically become a mascot for GT's downfall. They aren't the source of these problems, but have become emblematic of them.
When vision gt was announced, my understanding was that it was to celebrate 15 years of gran turismo. So these cars would all be released & featured for GT6. Not go on for another 2 games over 10 years later...
I think the idea of VGT is very cool. Some stunning cars, but almost ZERO purpose, besides talking to yourself and say, "Ohh how pretty these cars are..." While it appears to be a little bit better in GT7 with some of the cars modified to Gr.1 etc. and therefore making it more useful, I find it hard to support the idea. I mean, Polyphony really didn't think through with the pricing, performance and whatever, and one clear thing to prove this is the Mercedes AMG VGT *Racing series*. It has matching PP for Gr.3 if you adjust the downforce correspondingly to the other racecars (400 Front, 650 Rear), it is a racecar (all be it a concept one) and performs pretty well when you race alongside the Gr. 3 cars in a custom race. IT DOESN'T HAVE A GR. 3 CLASSIFICATION?!