Great overview, been waiting for a full/true 4K option from Epson for a while now to upgrade my old trusty 5030, plus the laser source and super low input lag for gaming is just even more icing on top!
the lack of 3d kills it for me. might as well throw out 50 blurays, really for epson this was a low blow. sure its not popular but at the price of these it shouldnt be excluded
The black levels may not be that big of a difference between the two. Epson is not really known to give you deep black levels like JVC. The black levels on my 6050ub was good at best, but not great like the JVC DLA-790r to be honest. Epson is more focused on keeping its cost competitive with the competition, and its bright vivid colors and how well this new projector can display HDR to even compete with Sony and JVC.
I've got the Epson 5050UB and I've loved it. Even with its pixel shifting sub 4k output, people constantly comment on the quality of the image (120" screen with negative gain). However, the initial brightness of the lamp seemed to fade after about 6 months and I now am cranking up levels to there max settings to get suitable brightness. So, I'm going to upgrade to this or the LS 11000 and get away from lamps. Do you think the 200 lumens and contrast difference will really make a big difference?
Hi. How many lamp hours did you have after those 6 months? I'm at 818 after three years, but I watch mostly in ECO and am happy with nighttime projection on a grey screen to improve the blacks (in a light controlled room, but with white walls). Can't say I have noticed any dimming. Trying to increase brightness can be a self-defeating endeavour, since you can make the blacks more washed out and the percieved contrast will get worse. But of course it all depends on your room setup.
Having had JVC dominate my mindshare and home theater use for the last years, I'm really eager to try this projector out and see what's what versus my JVC NX7. Wish it was native 4k though and waiting to see full confirmations on what exact level of auto tone mapping it does.
@@dionysilive1679 native 4k panels are a pain in the butt for engineers to make them work without a significant lose in contrast and light output. The projector would have been much more expensive.
The LCOS chips have the electronics behind the reflective panel, so they don't cause the screen door effect. I bet it's tough to make an LCD 4k without losing brightness with that much more circuitry to pass through. I'd love an NX7, but hope that this works well. Ordered the 12000 - should arrive in April.
@@georgepopescu1327 Believe this as well. Add to that the newer HDR formats, and extending that max contrast and light output becomes hugely important. You know what would be nice is if they could include some sort of rudamentary light output sensor that can read your screen and report its own output, to take away Dolby's excuse not to do Dolby Vision for projectors due to variables in setup.
I bought the ls12000 to replace the 5050ub. I really don't see how there is any way the pixel shifting degrades resolution. It is so clear with so much detail that it almost losses the cinematic effect on some movies. At times I miss the 5050ub's lack of detail. In my humble opinion the two things that would make me think of dropping more for the jvc are dolby vision and little bit better black levels. There is no way I'm gonna do that now, though. I'm pretty happy.
Using pixel shifting is what makes this affordable. My first one was the 4040 and I loved it and did not see any difference from my friends Sony Native 4K. I now have a 5050 and am in no need to upgrade but if this comes in under 5K with 120hz, HDR10 and Anamorphic modes, laser light source and tone mapping and it's black (I hate that the 5050 is white) I willl most likely upgrade. I run a 133" 2:35:1 screen which I think comes out to about 102" 16:9. I think if I had a 200 or higher 16:9 screen I might be inclined to get one of the native 4K projectors but at my screen size I do not see any disadvantage to Epsons pixel shifting which keeps improving.
@@harrytej I know but not all projectors have support for anamorphic lenses the ls12000 does so IMHO it is feature. I use the lens memory on my 5050 to do it now and it works well but I am told unsing a lens is better in most cases.
@@harrytej It's a projection mode where ultra-wide presentations are stretched over the entire chip for projection, rather than just the narrow band of actual movie where some significant portion of the chip's pixel elements send black for the duration of the film. Basically, you're leveraging all of the projector's chip to render the image, allowing you to squeeze out more detail from the e-shifted picture. It's beamed out of the projector stretched, then you put an expensive lens in front of it on a motor to squash it back down. It also has the advantage of using all the light output of the projector, rather than the lcd basically fighting the light engine to display black bars that remain black all the time, anyway. So you gain some light output, then you lose some when you bolt the squishy lens to it to squish the image back down again. This is NOT the same as anamorphic on DVD, where the encoding itself is stretched and then squished back down again by the display to allow more widescreen detail to be stored on a disc format specific to 4:3. I don't believe there's any such thing as an anamorphic encoded 4k disc, I believe they simply let the bars be black (they compress REALLY well), this is the projector doing some lens magic to leverage its own capabilities more fully.
Love from india man. Great thanks from indian home theatre fans who were looking for an english review being tired of deciphering European languages review. Thanks once again. Please tell how are the black levels compared to epson hc3800 and 6050ub
Thank you for the awesome review! Did you get a chance to try gaming on it? Would have love to see how it would have performed with the 120Hz input source.
I own the EPSON 4010 . PIXEL SHIFTING isn't a issue when using the correct applications or streaming devices. also if you have a good receiver it will process the image and upload to 4k via the streaming device. im using the apple tv 4k , out of all the devices i gotta say this ones the clearest and cleanest . you get nice bright vivid images and the frame rate matching is amazing . i use youtube to test out the 4k 60FPS and stat sheet is accurate. the 4010 is very budget friendly coming in at around 3k or lower . im interested in seeing this new laser LS12000 for gaming, ill keep my eye out for that review. hopefully this helps anyone that might have doubts or questions about epson projectors, they are perfect budget friendly with outstanding performance.
nice overview. I have questions. How you compare this to Sony 295ES. Right now I am using Sony 295ES. but i am not really happy about the black level and especially lack of features on 295ES. I am thinking to change to this Epson eventhough pixel shift. this epson have Laser light, Memory lens and support 48Gb/s hdmi bandwith. But again, what do you think the overall picture quality between Ls120000 and 295ES? is it wise I change my 295ES to this epson?
@@mateuszkaflowski3827 Black levels only really matter if you have a room with no white walls or white ceiling and the room is completely light controlled. Especially if you use a white positive gain screen. The white screen will reflect ANY ambient light off light-colored walls/ceilings, and cause the milky blacks no matter how good the projector is.
Great review! Very happy with how you described the differences. We had the 6050 on hold but now we will be upgrading to the LS12000. The throw will be 5.4 meters so hoping to install a 4 meter Cin screen that needs to be accustic as the speakers are in-wall and behind the screen. Do you think this will suit? Also, what size screen is behind you? Thanks again for your time, infor and great review! Matt
Ordered mine through Dream Media comes Wednesday can’t wait!! I’m coming from a 75” Sony 900e and going to a 110” screen seats are roughly 10 feet away so screen should feel gigantic. Super excited I feel like this was the sweet spot price to performance for my budget
id get this one over the nx5. More bright. more pop. Not native 4k so you get a bump in sharpness but i think the choice is clear. It would be a tougher comparison to the new bulb JVC. Id go JVC then
The new epson looks good but it seem like they left out the 3D and which the jvc all there's new models have 3D. Next 3 months im going to hit up audio advice for the nx7 or the nz7
I have been a huge fan of Epson projectors as my theatre room is not totally light controlled and used commonly for sports gatherings. I currently have the Epson 4010 and have really enjoyed it minus watching HDR content on it. I am not super versed in all the tone mapping stuff but I think the 4010 must have horrible tone mapping or some other issues with trying to display HDR content. I have to crank up the brightness setting just to make it watchable and this kills the black level and overall color of the image. I have had the 4010 for about 3 1/2 years and I am wondering if you guys think HDR content would display a lot better on the LS12000? I also really like the 120HZ gaming option and low lag for my PS5 but before I upgrade again I would really like better HDR options and I am hoping the LS12000 can deliver that. I don't really have the budget to go any higher than this so maybe good HDR is just out of the realm of possibility at this price point. Thoughts...
The 4010 is overall dim anyways. I wouldn’t use that in an ambient light situation. This one is much brighter and hdr is much improved over previous models.
I've been waiting as I know you're a big fan of the Epson bulb projectors. You didn't say anything about the black levels. How do they fair vs the bulb? I am thinking of buying the JVC rs2100 8ke-shift. What do you think of the JVC vs the Epson? I don't know what screen to go with either. Do I use a Stewart CIMA with 1.0 gain or what? Thanks for the quick review? Nick
with pretty much anything under 3000 lumens i would stick with a 1.2 or more screen. white screen would be best in a dark room. You need more lumens if you have to light an ALR screen too.
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude So, I can use a white 1.2 or 3 gain screen with either the JVC or Epson? Thanks so much for getting back to me and thanks for getting a quick review up All I care about are the black levels with these 2 laser projectors and how they compare to yours.. God bless,. Nick The wheelchair rolling dude
@@nhernan156 I actually have the Epson but I am not biased. I am well aware of it's limitations. Do you have a batcave? If the answer is yes, go with 1.2 white screen
Maybe a dumb question, but is there an audio output? If I had a roku stick plugged into one of the hdmi ports how would I get the audio to a stereo system? On my pc I can obviously use a separate audio output and run it to whatever I want but what about sources that are basically just hdmi out? In order to use the arc/earc channel you basically have to have a sound system that at least has HDMI in and out? Is that correct? And does that sound system have to be arc/earc compatible as well? I'm a stereo (2.0, 2.1, 2.2 channel) sound purist and my stereo integrated amplifier doesn't have any hdmi ports. I'm guessing I'd need some sort of HDMI switcher with audio outputs. Anyone have any suggestions quality built versions of those that are HDMI 2.1 compatible?
I'm a serious gamer and love brightness and deep dark blacks which projector should I get of these 3 Epson ls1200 $5000 MSRP Optoma's UHZ50 $2700 JVC DLA-NP5 $7000
@@peterwood2633 Thanks , yeah you are right it’s hardware. I can’t believe Epson dropped the ball on the 3D arena. I bought the 6050ub instead. Hopefully I chose right plus I can replace the bulb unlike the LS12000
@@carlosmercado8221 I have avatar, titanic, mad Max and the jungle book in 3D. Titanic and avatar the best. Others too shallow to appreciate. The apparent FPS drop annoys me but you do get a nice increase with 3D in contrast. I think I'll live without it or keep my hw40es for 3D only and just keep a new bulb in it for max brightness. Been wanting an upgrade for ages and has to be the ls12000 IMO
That was going to be my choice a few years ago over the epson but I setup a 2.35:1 screen so I got the epson. The UHZ65 is a good unit. What did they upgrade?
@Gary Pranzo they call it theo upgrade basically its a cinema filter which greatly increases the black levels the color gamut contrast among other things it was a HUGE upgrade from what it looked like when I first got it when I got it back from them I was blown away just look up optoma theo version on UA-cam they have several videos about it
I don't think the pixel shift carries well through high-motion scenes. I don't have as much problem with it when the image is still, and my LS10k's image is nicely detailed for my setup. It's not native4k, but I didn't want to pay 2016 prices for native 4k. Looking at this for the all-around bump in 4k capability, the full 10 (or 12) bit processing vice my 8bit+dither all over + crap through a lens filter to where it is unusable on any but the most boutique of source material and of no use whatever to HDR-10 or true wide-gamut color repro. Best I can do is buy an hdmi cheat of some kind and try to fool the source into sending wcg, then laugh as my projector processes it at 8-bit anyway, and I throw precision in the garbage for the sake of gamut
I may have missed it but where did you talk about blacks? I hear mostly about color pop and saturation etc on the various movies. Its always nice to hear about blacks.
Early reviews are showing around 3,500-4,000 contrast ratio, and 25,000 with dynamic. Perceptually, against the JVCs, the blacks won’t be as good on the Epson but quite respectable.
Not true 4k and no lamp replacement is what I heard? I currently have a qn85qn900 but it's "anti glare" is horrible and I have to darken the room to enjoy the perfect blacks, but since I'm having to darken the room (something that kept me out of projectors) I'm considering just making the jump. This was recommended but I'm not impressed and I doubt without a high end screen (another 2-3k) and a absolute dark room I will get blacks anywhere near my qn85qn900 which I'll probably just stick with..... **sigh** first world problems huh?
I've got an big library of 3D movies which I enjoy also have my HTPC hooked up for 3D gaming with the TriDef3D software which converts any PC game to "NATIVE 3D" not converted. Emulation with Dolphin for GameCube and Wii has a 3D stereoscopic option that also converts to "NATIVE 3D" as well as Citra for 3DS emulation...works great!
@@VanDammage87 Oh, I see. Wow that sucks. I myself have a few 3D movies in my collection (about 10 or so). I always enjoyed watching Tron legacy, especially the motorcycle fight in the grid. That's one of the best looking 3D movies I've ever seen. I was reading somewhere that eventually they will fade out 3D on all the tvs too. I am not sure If any new TVs come with 3D. The technology is changing rapidly. 3D will eventually become a niche category, Just like vinyl records. That's how life is you know, things come and they do their time and they eventually they fade out. Right now the war between the Tv and projector manufacturers are amping up exponentially. With the projectors, they're moving away from bulbs and focusing more on laser technology. Because laser last a lot longer and runs more efficiently. On the Tv side, the Tv manufacturers are battling over which technology will give you the best overall performance, whether its QLED, OLED, MINI-LED, ULED, ect..
@@kman9387 I haven't seen a measured native contrast ratio for the 810 that puts it anywhere near Epson's previous projectors. (5050 for example.) This new Epson is still just now being released, but reviews are trickling in anywhere from 3,500:1 up to 6 or 7,000:1. Dynamic contrast for the Epson 12000 is coming in around 25,000:1. The 810's dynamic contrast is an abysmal 2,500:1. My experience with the 810 was an exercise in frustration with nothing but either decent blacks and a dim picture, or a punchy bright picture with grey looking blacks. I really hope LG can keep everything else about that projector but get better blacks out of it in it's next iteration. (Not likely if they keep native 4k and that .47" TI chip in it.)
@@ryankramer 👍 very true. For the price and what I've been able to squeeze out of the LG has been phenomenal, for the price. But yes this could have been greatly mitigated if they had opted for the better DLP chip 🤦
Thank you so much for this brief review. Wow, this thing really looks awesome. I currently have the 6050ub, so I am really going back and forth in my mind to see if it's worth the $1000 upgrade. from what I am seeing here it looks awesome. I am curious to see how it handles tone mapping and HDR on most 4k HDR movies. I'll wait to see what this new technology can do, compared to JVC and Sony.
Price to performance there is not a SINGLE projector that comes close this is the only projector that should be sold until other manufacturers make comparable decently priced projectors.
He said “Beating off” 😂 Great review as always!! So, you mentioned the sweet spot for screen size is about 130”.. so how is fan db noise at max (100%) light output? How do black levels and shadow detail compare to other projectors you’ve reviewed? Example: JVCs and Sonys? Thanks bruh!!
yeah 130 is where i would say this would look best. on a positive gain screen and dedicated environment this will be aces. Realistically people are putting epsons in their living room, media room, or game room. None of which are light controlled. Fan noise was QUIET!!! To me it was less than the bulb version at high lamp. You get a rocking enough system you wont care. Heat was minimal. I dont compare epsons to sony or JVCs because they are made to fit a specific purpose. They are affordable and a great bang for buck
@@sonicchill1 6050 has an iris which helps much more with contrast and black levels compared to laser dimming which only cuts light. With iris you actually increase contrast. Unfortunately this LS doesn't have an iris. If you calibrate both in a batcave, 6050 will have better contrast and better black levels but in a normal living room the laser will be a better choice.
@@georgepopescu1327 Don’t think that’s going to be the case. The lasers fast response and machine’s enhanced 4K processing along with its wide dynamic range will definitely contribute to a superior black floor which should easily outperform the 6050ub.
@@sonicchill1 this is not the case. The projector was extensively reviewed by European calibrators like Gregory and I am telling you, the 6050 has better native contrast. Sure overall they look pretty similar to the eye in terms of black levels but strictly on paper the lamp version is a bit better. So expect to see the same black levels as you see on lamp model.
They're moving away from 3D. Maybe they think 3D isn't that popular anymore. Its all about 4kHDR 10 plus, 120hz refresh rates, tone mapping, etc.. I think Optoma is doing the same thing too. Technology is changing very rapidly you know. So eventually something has to be faded out. Remember curved TVs, look what happened to that? Lol..
Fake. 3D is still produced and available, hundreds of blurays especially in EU, only US has scarcity in the last years, and 3D switched on almost all home cinema projectors simply because TVs screens were just too small, puppet effect, but is still available on the best TV models. We watch with 2 eyes and UHD HDR improvements are meaningless if FLAT!
@@car103d I understand that. But there must be a reason why Epson didn't see a need to put 3D in this new projector. 3D can be tricky to implement on certain projectors and sometimes problematic for certain people. I read a lot of tech news and reviews, and I just don't hear that many people talk about 3D anymore. All most people are talking about today is HDR, high contrast, excellent black levels, refresh rates, tone mapping etc.. This is what people are talking about. Me and you love 3D. But I don't have to watch 3D if the projector performs well in all areas. Maybe you should contact Epson and speak to a customer rep. I might contact them myself.
@@ricardoharris4604 Ya from a business point of few 3D is all but dead. It’s only still available in projection like Sony and JVC and just a leftover feature it seems. It’s a shame too cause all this brightness for HDR could make for fantastic 3D on this Epson.
@@jarodreddig63 Yes sir, I totally agree. I think Epson was looking at the market and saw that most people don't use 3D that much anymore. maybe a few people will want 3D, but not all. What's important to them is HDR, Tone mapping, high contrast, and of course 120hz refresh rate for the gaming industry. They have to try to keep up with the competition to stay in the business. for example, that's why Panasonic left the Home theater market because Epson, Optoma, BenQ, Sony, and JVC were just killing them. That AE-8000u was a fantastic projector back in 2012. if they only kept up with the competition and made some upgrades like adding a 4k chipset to that 3 LCD pannel it would've been a different story today. They certainly have the technology to come back in the home theater market because they've been using 4k HDR laser technology on some of their high-end projectors for some years now. Panasonic makes some great projectors and even commercial projectors that cost $50k and up. If they had a home theater projector that was available today to be coupled with their 4k UHD blue ray player that they have, I believe it would've been a game-changer today in this competitive projector market.
Weeellll, in actuality you may get close to 2160p on a still image, but once you introduce motion, that's where a native 4k panel will help over an e-shifter, even a 2x shifter. I've seen the latest JVC native 4k models as well as my own 4k eshift model. The native 4k chips just add that much more dimensionality to the image.
@@blakewillson18 sure it does, the 5050 is way cheaper , has the same native contrast/black levels, it has an iris which helps a lot for calibration, it has 3D support
@@georgepopescu1327 you can’t buy a 5050 anymore. They have been sold out for some time. You’ll be thinking about the laser once you have to replace your bulb a few times.
OMY double the contrast ratio??? That is the biggest point of contention on my 6050. Send it over my bud.... /rubs hands together. OK! Ready to trade up now.
So it doesn't concern you that in 2022 Epson is still using that old pixel shifting technolagy to achieve Faux k, instead of finally going "native 4k? all they're doing is revamping and upgrading the same old technology they've been using for many years. But they haven't leaped forward in the "native" 4k market as yet. and I don't think they will anytime soon.
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude *laser* sorry for not using proper terms but some of us use this as a primary TV and have ambient light that I can block out but don't always want to go through the trouble. I'd like to have all these features but still have a friendly user interface and settings. Lg has a 5 and 6k lumen projector but it's targeted for business use.
@@gjmarks1873 it’s not the projectors fault you have ambient light. Maybe get a quality ambient light rejecting screen if that’s your main complaint. I wouldn’t recommend elite or silver ticket.
It's not the projectors fault obviously. My frustration is with the company's lack of market awareness. Projectors would be way more mainstream if they quit holding back the brightness. Maybe people would be more inclined if they didn't have to 100% blackout their family room.
Great review, ive been happy with epson 5050, but wow 4k 120hz... got to ask, im in the Dallas, TX area would you have any recommendations on calibrators?
@@arielsolorzano1149 calibration will usually run you 500+ bucks. Most people don’t do them for projectors in this price range. You’ll be fine without it. How many TVs do you have calibrated at your home?
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude honestly none but i do to get some "cali. Setting" from websites, just as a starting point . Thanks for reply, you put out great content man 👍👍
Great overview, been waiting for a full/true 4K option from Epson for a while now to upgrade my old trusty 5030, plus the laser source and super low input lag for gaming is just even more icing on top!
the lack of 3d kills it for me. might as well throw out 50 blurays, really for epson this was a low blow. sure its not popular but at the price of these it shouldnt be excluded
How is the black level compared to the 6050 that's what everyone wants to know ?
LOL :)
Exactly what I was thinking, where is the Black level rating??? The omission was obvious and out of character.
The black levels may not be that big of a difference between the two. Epson is not really known to give you deep black levels like JVC. The black levels on my 6050ub was good at best, but not great like the JVC DLA-790r to be honest. Epson is more focused on keeping its cost competitive with the competition, and its bright vivid colors and how well this new projector can display HDR to even compete with Sony and JVC.
Yes could we get an answer on the black level in comparison to the 9400
better than 6050 real black
I've got the Epson 5050UB and I've loved it. Even with its pixel shifting sub 4k output, people constantly comment on the quality of the image (120" screen with negative gain). However, the initial brightness of the lamp seemed to fade after about 6 months and I now am cranking up levels to there max settings to get suitable brightness. So, I'm going to upgrade to this or the LS 11000 and get away from lamps. Do you think the 200 lumens and contrast difference will really make a big difference?
Huge difference my friend.
Hi. How many lamp hours did you have after those 6 months? I'm at 818 after three years, but I watch mostly in ECO and am happy with nighttime projection on a grey screen to improve the blacks (in a light controlled room, but with white walls). Can't say I have noticed any dimming. Trying to increase brightness can be a self-defeating endeavour, since you can make the blacks more washed out and the percieved contrast will get worse. But of course it all depends on your room setup.
Great, are you streaming the movies through android devices, Netflix or google?
Hi thanks for the review how does it compair to your 5060 picture wise
Having had JVC dominate my mindshare and home theater use for the last years, I'm really eager to try this projector out and see what's what versus my JVC NX7. Wish it was native 4k though and waiting to see full confirmations on what exact level of auto tone mapping it does.
From what I heard, will not be native 4k… instead will be pixel shift.
@@dionysilive1679 native 4k panels are a pain in the butt for engineers to make them work without a significant lose in contrast and light output.
The projector would have been much more expensive.
The LCOS chips have the electronics behind the reflective panel, so they don't cause the screen door effect. I bet it's tough to make an LCD 4k without losing brightness with that much more circuitry to pass through. I'd love an NX7, but hope that this works well. Ordered the 12000 - should arrive in April.
@@georgepopescu1327 Believe this as well. Add to that the newer HDR formats, and extending that max contrast and light output becomes hugely important. You know what would be nice is if they could include some sort of rudamentary light output sensor that can read your screen and report its own output, to take away Dolby's excuse not to do Dolby Vision for projectors due to variables in setup.
I bought the ls12000 to replace the 5050ub. I really don't see how there is any way the pixel shifting degrades resolution. It is so clear with so much detail that it almost losses the cinematic effect on some movies. At times I miss the 5050ub's lack of detail. In my humble opinion the two things that would make me think of dropping more for the jvc are dolby vision and little bit better black levels. There is no way I'm gonna do that now, though. I'm pretty happy.
Question everyone is asking is how do the black levels and shadow detail compare to the 5050 and 3800?? Thanks, great review!
YES, compare blacks!
@@stodrac If you don't have black ceilings and walls and complete light control, there won't be much difference.
Hey, which one you recommend ls12000 or nx7?
Using pixel shifting is what makes this affordable. My first one was the 4040 and I loved it and did not see any difference from my friends Sony Native 4K. I now have a 5050 and am in no need to upgrade but if this comes in under 5K with 120hz, HDR10 and Anamorphic modes, laser light source and tone mapping and it's black (I hate that the 5050 is white) I willl most likely upgrade. I run a 133" 2:35:1 screen which I think comes out to about 102" 16:9. I think if I had a 200 or higher 16:9 screen I might be inclined to get one of the native 4K projectors but at my screen size I do not see any disadvantage to Epsons pixel shifting which keeps improving.
Whats anamorphic mode? There is no known projector which does just 2.35:1 out of the box without a lens
@@harrytej I know but not all projectors have support for anamorphic lenses the ls12000 does so IMHO it is feature. I use the lens memory on my 5050 to do it now and it works well but I am told unsing a lens is better in most cases.
@@harrytej It's a projection mode where ultra-wide presentations are stretched over the entire chip for projection, rather than just the narrow band of actual movie where some significant portion of the chip's pixel elements send black for the duration of the film. Basically, you're leveraging all of the projector's chip to render the image, allowing you to squeeze out more detail from the e-shifted picture. It's beamed out of the projector stretched, then you put an expensive lens in front of it on a motor to squash it back down. It also has the advantage of using all the light output of the projector, rather than the lcd basically fighting the light engine to display black bars that remain black all the time, anyway. So you gain some light output, then you lose some when you bolt the squishy lens to it to squish the image back down again.
This is NOT the same as anamorphic on DVD, where the encoding itself is stretched and then squished back down again by the display to allow more widescreen detail to be stored on a disc format specific to 4:3. I don't believe there's any such thing as an anamorphic encoded 4k disc, I believe they simply let the bars be black (they compress REALLY well), this is the projector doing some lens magic to leverage its own capabilities more fully.
@@TheMustachioedJames - Nice explanation. Thanks.
@@garypranzo9334 Some of those anamorphic lenses cost more than the projector.
Love from india man. Great thanks from indian home theatre fans who were looking for an english review being tired of deciphering European languages review. Thanks once again. Please tell how are the black levels compared to epson hc3800 and 6050ub
Thank you for the awesome review! Did you get a chance to try gaming on it? Would have love to see how it would have performed with the 120Hz input source.
I own the EPSON 4010 . PIXEL SHIFTING isn't a issue when using the correct applications or streaming devices. also if you have a good receiver it will process the image and upload to 4k via the streaming device. im using the apple tv 4k , out of all the devices i gotta say this ones the clearest and cleanest . you get nice bright vivid images and the frame rate matching is amazing . i use youtube to test out the 4k 60FPS and stat sheet is accurate. the 4010 is very budget friendly coming in at around 3k or lower . im interested in seeing this new laser LS12000 for gaming, ill keep my eye out for that review. hopefully this helps anyone that might have doubts or questions about epson projectors, they are perfect budget friendly with outstanding performance.
Would love to see you compare the LS12000 to the Sony XW5000es since those are head to head right now, great review
How is this compare to the AWOL 3500? Which do you prefer? TY
Thanks for the English edition, I was trying to figure out Italian & German reviews the last 2 months.
im a man of the people like vincent teoh
LOL...facts!
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude No, you're a guy who does not answer black level questions!
55
@@stodracIf you don't have black ceilings and walls and complete light control, there won't be much difference.
nice overview. I have questions. How you compare this to Sony 295ES. Right now I am using Sony 295ES. but i am not really happy about the black level and especially lack of features on 295ES. I am thinking to change to this Epson eventhough pixel shift. this epson have Laser light, Memory lens and support 48Gb/s hdmi bandwith. But again, what do you think the overall picture quality between Ls120000 and 295ES? is it wise I change my 295ES to this epson?
I am curious too. Could you do some comparison: brightness and black levels.
@@mateuszkaflowski3827 Black levels only really matter if you have a room with no white walls or white ceiling and the room is completely light controlled. Especially if you use a white positive gain screen. The white screen will reflect ANY ambient light off light-colored walls/ceilings, and cause the milky blacks no matter how good the projector is.
Thank u for the review finally! Been waiting
Great review! Very happy with how you described the differences. We had the 6050 on hold but now we will be upgrading to the LS12000. The throw will be 5.4 meters so hoping to install a 4 meter Cin screen that needs to be accustic as the speakers are in-wall and behind the screen. Do you think this will suit? Also, what size screen is behind you? Thanks again for your time, infor and great review! Matt
id say the max is a 150 inch diagonal 16x9 for this. thats how far my recommendation would go. i woudnt do any bigger with 4k hdr
What movie streaming service are you using?
Hey this projector vs the Sony Es325? Which do you like better... picture wise?
Ordered mine through Dream Media comes Wednesday can’t wait!! I’m coming from a 75” Sony 900e and going to a 110” screen seats are roughly 10 feet away so screen should feel gigantic. Super excited I feel like this was the sweet spot price to performance for my budget
ugh, good luck with all of that man. wooo
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude lol not quite sure what you mean by that?
Hey man, how would you say the ls12000 would compare against the NX5? NX5 worth the extra grand?
id get this one over the nx5. More bright. more pop. Not native 4k so you get a bump in sharpness but i think the choice is clear. It would be a tougher comparison to the new bulb JVC. Id go JVC then
The new epson looks good but it seem like they left out the 3D and which the jvc all there's new models have 3D. Next 3 months im going to hit up audio advice for the nx7 or the nz7
They are still on backorder and are not projected to arrive until the end of summer or even fall.
whats the price on these and do you know when the plan to release them
Around the $5,000 range
Fan noise compared to 5050 on full power ?
I have been a huge fan of Epson projectors as my theatre room is not totally light controlled and used commonly for sports gatherings. I currently have the Epson 4010 and have really enjoyed it minus watching HDR content on it. I am not super versed in all the tone mapping stuff but I think the 4010 must have horrible tone mapping or some other issues with trying to display HDR content. I have to crank up the brightness setting just to make it watchable and this kills the black level and overall color of the image. I have had the 4010 for about 3 1/2 years and I am wondering if you guys think HDR content would display a lot better on the LS12000? I also really like the 120HZ gaming option and low lag for my PS5 but before I upgrade again I would really like better HDR options and I am hoping the LS12000 can deliver that. I don't really have the budget to go any higher than this so maybe good HDR is just out of the realm of possibility at this price point. Thoughts...
The 4010 is overall dim anyways. I wouldn’t use that in an ambient light situation. This one is much brighter and hdr is much improved over previous models.
Wish we could see a closeup of the resolution compared to the old 4K-Pro UHD method.
Great review. The picture looks darker and bluer than the 5050/6050. Can that be fixed or is it due to the use of a laser instead of a bulb?
It was probably a shift from the camera used with its chosen white balance. I’m sure if I redid white balance in camera you wouldn’t see the tint.
Is it worth it to upgrade if you already have a 6050?
How does this compare to the Sony 325SE?
I've been waiting as I know you're a big fan of the Epson bulb projectors. You didn't say anything about the black levels. How do they fair vs the bulb?
I am thinking of buying the JVC rs2100 8ke-shift.
What do you think of the JVC vs the Epson?
I don't know what screen to go with either.
Do I use a Stewart CIMA with 1.0 gain or what?
Thanks for the quick review?
Nick
with pretty much anything under 3000 lumens i would stick with a 1.2 or more screen. white screen would be best in a dark room. You need more lumens if you have to light an ALR screen too.
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude So, I can use a white 1.2 or 3 gain screen with either the JVC or Epson? Thanks so much for getting back to me and thanks for getting a quick review up
All I care about are the black levels with these 2 laser projectors and how they compare to yours..
God bless,. Nick
The wheelchair rolling dude
If you can afford a JVC, don't look back.
Epson is a compromise, not a JVC replacement but this is to be expected given the price difference.
@@georgepopescu1327 I'm assuming you have the JVC? Do you need an ALR screen or can I just get one with a 1.0 to 1.2 gain?
@@nhernan156 I actually have the Epson but I am not biased. I am well aware of it's limitations.
Do you have a batcave? If the answer is yes, go with 1.2 white screen
What are you using to stream the movies??
kaleidescape
Is that blue-ish tint something that just the camera does ? The colors look so cold compared to like 5050ub.
white balance and picture profile may have something to do with it in camera vs from the projector
Sir what about the optical zoom option.... does it reduces the image quality on 2.1x zoom
zoom refers to the image size. you dont really zoom in on the image. its the overall screen size.
Hate to say it but the 3D is a deal breaker. I'll stick with the 5050UB.
It’s a deal breaker for me too.
Same here unless all it needs is a firmware update…
Ditto, 3D firmware or shelf life…
How much does this retail for ?
Maybe a dumb question, but is there an audio output? If I had a roku stick plugged into one of the hdmi ports how would I get the audio to a stereo system? On my pc I can obviously use a separate audio output and run it to whatever I want but what about sources that are basically just hdmi out? In order to use the arc/earc channel you basically have to have a sound system that at least has HDMI in and out? Is that correct? And does that sound system have to be arc/earc compatible as well? I'm a stereo (2.0, 2.1, 2.2 channel) sound purist and my stereo integrated amplifier doesn't have any hdmi ports. I'm guessing I'd need some sort of HDMI switcher with audio outputs. Anyone have any suggestions quality built versions of those that are HDMI 2.1 compatible?
That’s not how projectors work. Signal coming in is from an avr our other audio source.
What's the price point ?.
I'm a serious gamer and love brightness and deep dark blacks which projector should I get of these 3
Epson ls1200 $5000 MSRP
Optoma's UHZ50 $2700
JVC DLA-NP5 $7000
You get brightness with epson. You get blacks with jvc. I only have experience with the uhz65. I wasn’t impressed with it.
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude so it's safe to say the JVC is the OLED of these 3?
Is 3D hardware or software? Can it be added to this model through an update?
It will never do 3D , due in part with the way it shifts I believe
@@peterwood2633 Thanks , yeah you are right it’s hardware. I can’t believe Epson dropped the ball on the 3D arena. I bought the 6050ub instead. Hopefully I chose right plus I can replace the bulb unlike the LS12000
@@carlosmercado8221 I have avatar, titanic, mad Max and the jungle book in 3D. Titanic and avatar the best. Others too shallow to appreciate. The apparent FPS drop annoys me but you do get a nice increase with 3D in contrast. I think I'll live without it or keep my hw40es for 3D only and just keep a new bulb in it for max brightness. Been wanting an upgrade for ages and has to be the ls12000 IMO
Are you still with Dream Media?
I have the optoma uhz65 had it upgraded to the theo by tvs pro I love it but I can't help but to wonder about this projector and the laser jvc
That was going to be my choice a few years ago over the epson but I setup a 2.35:1 screen so I got the epson. The UHZ65 is a good unit. What did they upgrade?
@Gary Pranzo they call it theo upgrade basically its a cinema filter which greatly increases the black levels the color gamut contrast among other things it was a HUGE upgrade from what it looked like when I first got it when I got it back from them I was blown away just look up optoma theo version on UA-cam they have several videos about it
Is it just me or does Epson always have a choppy image whenever it pans? Seems to blur until it stops panning and than looks good again?
I don't think the pixel shift carries well through high-motion scenes. I don't have as much problem with it when the image is still, and my LS10k's image is nicely detailed for my setup. It's not native4k, but I didn't want to pay 2016 prices for native 4k. Looking at this for the all-around bump in 4k capability, the full 10 (or 12) bit processing vice my 8bit+dither all over + crap through a lens filter to where it is unusable on any but the most boutique of source material and of no use whatever to HDR-10 or true wide-gamut color repro. Best I can do is buy an hdmi cheat of some kind and try to fool the source into sending wcg, then laugh as my projector processes it at 8-bit anyway, and I throw precision in the garbage for the sake of gamut
Is not having 4k an issue? I mostly stream Netlfix …
nope. Its a great projector
What media server is he using?
I may have missed it but where did you talk about blacks? I hear mostly about color pop and saturation etc on the various movies. Its always nice to hear about blacks.
Much improved over previous models.
English edition! My man!
You inspired it my guy :)
Pixel shiftting or native 4k?
It's still a shifter. If they were to go actual native 4k the price would double.
is this better than the jvc NZ3?
yes. the nz3 doent do dynamic tone mapping to this level. Also, this doesnt dim on 4kHDR like the nz3
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude what does that mean the colors and black level are better?
Black levels compared to jvc nx5 and nz7??
nice joke
Compares very favorably.
Let's just say you get what you pay for.
Early reviews are showing around 3,500-4,000 contrast ratio, and 25,000 with dynamic. Perceptually, against the JVCs, the blacks won’t be as good on the Epson but quite respectable.
Not true 4k and no lamp replacement is what I heard? I currently have a qn85qn900 but it's "anti glare" is horrible and I have to darken the room to enjoy the perfect blacks, but since I'm having to darken the room (something that kept me out of projectors) I'm considering just making the jump. This was recommended but I'm not impressed and I doubt without a high end screen (another 2-3k) and a absolute dark room I will get blacks anywhere near my qn85qn900 which I'll probably just stick with..... **sigh** first world problems huh?
Thought it's 11 point white balance?
Specs say 14 up from 8
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude maybe 9400 was 11
The picture looked nice and sharp
No 3D = Deal breaker. What were they thinking?
Does anybody even watch 3D? Is it even a thing anymore?
I've got an big library of 3D movies which I enjoy also have my HTPC hooked up for 3D gaming with the TriDef3D software which converts any PC game to "NATIVE 3D" not converted. Emulation with Dolphin for GameCube and Wii has a 3D stereoscopic option that also converts to "NATIVE 3D" as well as Citra for 3DS emulation...works great!
@@VanDammage87 What OS do you run? also, what Application? KODi? Plex/Emby/Jellyfin?
@@VanDammage87 Oh, I see. Wow that sucks. I myself have a few 3D movies in my collection (about 10 or so). I always enjoyed watching Tron legacy, especially the motorcycle fight in the grid. That's one of the best looking 3D movies I've ever seen. I was reading somewhere that eventually they will fade out 3D on all the tvs too. I am not sure If any new TVs come with 3D. The technology is changing rapidly. 3D will eventually become a niche category, Just like vinyl records. That's how life is you know, things come and they do their time and they eventually they fade out. Right now the war between the Tv and projector manufacturers are amping up exponentially. With the projectors, they're moving away from bulbs and focusing more on laser technology. Because laser last a lot longer and runs more efficiently. On the Tv side, the Tv manufacturers are battling over which technology will give you the best overall performance, whether its QLED, OLED, MINI-LED, ULED, ect..
@@ricardoharris4604 i will never buy a projector without 3D so yes there are still people into this technology
This might get me to upgrade my trusty 5040
I was thinking the same thing 🙂
do it!
Is this worth the upgrade vs the LG HU810P?
Probably not.
The 810 has a fairly poor contrast ratio. The biggest difference would be the quality of blacks.
@@ryankramer with proper adjustment and screen type this gap closes.
@@kman9387 I haven't seen a measured native contrast ratio for the 810 that puts it anywhere near Epson's previous projectors. (5050 for example.) This new Epson is still just now being released, but reviews are trickling in anywhere from 3,500:1 up to 6 or 7,000:1. Dynamic contrast for the Epson 12000 is coming in around 25,000:1. The 810's dynamic contrast is an abysmal 2,500:1. My experience with the 810 was an exercise in frustration with nothing but either decent blacks and a dim picture, or a punchy bright picture with grey looking blacks. I really hope LG can keep everything else about that projector but get better blacks out of it in it's next iteration. (Not likely if they keep native 4k and that .47" TI chip in it.)
@@ryankramer 👍 very true. For the price and what I've been able to squeeze out of the LG has been phenomenal, for the price.
But yes this could have been greatly mitigated if they had opted for the better DLP chip 🤦
Thank you so much for this brief review. Wow, this thing really looks awesome. I currently have the 6050ub, so I am really going back and forth in my mind to see if it's worth the $1000 upgrade. from what I am seeing here it looks awesome. I am curious to see how it handles tone mapping and HDR on most 4k HDR movies. I'll wait to see what this new technology can do, compared to JVC and Sony.
Only 1000$? Okay.
Great device for the $! Dream media have them in yet?
call those fellas. I wouldnt know
Price to performance there is not a SINGLE projector that comes close this is the only projector that should be sold until other manufacturers make comparable decently priced projectors.
He said “Beating off” 😂 Great review as always!!
So, you mentioned the sweet spot for screen size is about 130”.. so how is fan db noise at max (100%) light output?
How do black levels and shadow detail compare to other projectors you’ve reviewed? Example: JVCs and Sonys?
Thanks bruh!!
yeah 130 is where i would say this would look best. on a positive gain screen and dedicated environment this will be aces. Realistically people are putting epsons in their living room, media room, or game room. None of which are light controlled. Fan noise was QUIET!!! To me it was less than the bulb version at high lamp. You get a rocking enough system you wont care. Heat was minimal. I dont compare epsons to sony or JVCs because they are made to fit a specific purpose. They are affordable and a great bang for buck
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude
Thanks for the reply!!
Would you say there is a significant improvement in black levels from the 6050ub?
@@sonicchill1 6050 has an iris which helps much more with contrast and black levels compared to laser dimming which only cuts light. With iris you actually increase contrast. Unfortunately this LS doesn't have an iris.
If you calibrate both in a batcave, 6050 will have better contrast and better black levels but in a normal living room the laser will be a better choice.
@@georgepopescu1327
Don’t think that’s going to be the case. The lasers fast response and machine’s enhanced 4K processing along with its wide dynamic range will definitely contribute to a superior black floor which should easily outperform the 6050ub.
@@sonicchill1 this is not the case. The projector was extensively reviewed by European calibrators like Gregory and I am telling you, the 6050 has better native contrast. Sure overall they look pretty similar to the eye in terms of black levels but strictly on paper the lamp version is a bit better.
So expect to see the same black levels as you see on lamp model.
Breaks my heart this doesn’t do 3D.
They're moving away from 3D. Maybe they think 3D isn't that popular anymore. Its all about 4kHDR 10 plus, 120hz refresh rates, tone mapping, etc.. I think Optoma is doing the same thing too. Technology is changing very rapidly you know. So eventually something has to be faded out. Remember curved TVs, look what happened to that? Lol..
Fake. 3D is still produced and available, hundreds of blurays especially in EU, only US has scarcity in the last years, and 3D switched on almost all home cinema projectors simply because TVs screens were just too small, puppet effect, but is still available on the best TV models. We watch with 2 eyes and UHD HDR improvements are meaningless if FLAT!
@@car103d I understand that. But there must be a reason why Epson didn't see a need to put 3D in this new projector. 3D can be tricky to implement on certain projectors and sometimes problematic for certain people. I read a lot of tech news and reviews, and I just don't hear that many people talk about 3D anymore. All most people are talking about today is HDR, high contrast, excellent black levels, refresh rates, tone mapping etc.. This is what people are talking about. Me and you love 3D. But I don't have to watch 3D if the projector performs well in all areas. Maybe you should contact Epson and speak to a customer rep. I might contact them myself.
@@ricardoharris4604 Ya from a business point of few 3D is all but dead. It’s only still available in projection like Sony and JVC and just a leftover feature it seems. It’s a shame too cause all this brightness for HDR could make for fantastic 3D on this Epson.
@@jarodreddig63 Yes sir, I totally agree. I think Epson was looking at the market and saw that most people don't use 3D that much anymore. maybe a few people will want 3D, but not all. What's important to them is HDR, Tone mapping, high contrast, and of course 120hz refresh rate for the gaming industry. They have to try to keep up with the competition to stay in the business. for example, that's why Panasonic left the Home theater market because Epson, Optoma, BenQ, Sony, and JVC were just killing them. That AE-8000u was a fantastic projector back in 2012. if they only kept up with the competition and made some upgrades like adding a 4k chipset to that 3 LCD pannel it would've been a different story today. They certainly have the technology to come back in the home theater market because they've been using 4k HDR laser technology on some of their high-end projectors for some years now. Panasonic makes some great projectors and even commercial projectors that cost $50k and up. If they had a home theater projector that was available today to be coupled with their 4k UHD blue ray player that they have, I believe it would've been a game-changer today in this competitive projector market.
This does 1080x4 pixel shifting, not 1080x2, so you should see all 8.3 million pixels.
Weeellll, in actuality you may get close to 2160p on a still image, but once you introduce motion, that's where a native 4k panel will help over an e-shifter, even a 2x shifter. I've seen the latest JVC native 4k models as well as my own 4k eshift model. The native 4k chips just add that much more dimensionality to the image.
good catch.
@@dan_hitchman007 Yes a native 4K is best, no doubt, but the new LS12000 is an improvement over the previous 1080x2 models.
@@2Timothy2.15 Cool. Hope to demo it some day.
@@2Timothy2.15 actually the 5050/6050 got an upgrade to 3x shift so it's able to display 6million pixels
Price to performance the LS12000 will be hard to beat.
Nothing will remotely touch it.
@@blakewillson18 sure it does, the 5050 is way cheaper , has the same native contrast/black levels, it has an iris which helps a lot for calibration, it has 3D support
@@georgepopescu1327 you can’t buy a 5050 anymore. They have been sold out for some time. You’ll be thinking about the laser once you have to replace your bulb a few times.
@@georgepopescu1327 I guarantee you the LS12000 is much sharper and has better back levels than the 5050ub.
@@blakewillson18 it really doesn't have, measurements don't lie. They both have around 5000:1 native contrast
Did you call chaff, chafe?
heh?
I like that is a lazer but no 3d i dont know i have 2 many 3d movies to not have that
OMY double the contrast ratio??? That is the biggest point of contention on my 6050. Send it over my bud.... /rubs hands together. OK! Ready to trade up now.
So it doesn't concern you that in 2022 Epson is still using that old pixel shifting technolagy to achieve Faux k, instead of finally going "native 4k? all they're doing is revamping and upgrading the same old technology they've been using for many years. But they haven't leaped forward in the "native" 4k market as yet. and I don't think they will anytime soon.
Pay no attention to manufacturers spec. Native contrast is actually a little worse than the 6050. It’s under 4000:1.
I am so tired of waiting for new projectors just to see them only have 2700 lumens. Put a brighter bulb in the damn things!
Ugh …. No bulb here. It’s laser. Also why do you think you need more lumens?
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude *laser* sorry for not using proper terms but some of us use this as a primary TV and have ambient light that I can block out but don't always want to go through the trouble. I'd like to have all these features but still have a friendly user interface and settings. Lg has a 5 and 6k lumen projector but it's targeted for business use.
@@gjmarks1873 it’s not the projectors fault you have ambient light. Maybe get a quality ambient light rejecting screen if that’s your main complaint. I wouldn’t recommend elite or silver ticket.
It's not the projectors fault obviously. My frustration is with the company's lack of market awareness. Projectors would be way more mainstream if they quit holding back the brightness. Maybe people would be more inclined if they didn't have to 100% blackout their family room.
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude What do you recommend that isn't crazy expensive? Thanks!!
❤️❤️❤️
1st
Great review, ive been happy with epson 5050, but wow 4k 120hz... got to ask, im in the Dallas, TX area would you have any recommendations on calibrators?
@@arielsolorzano1149 calibration will usually run you 500+ bucks. Most people don’t do them for projectors in this price range. You’ll be fine without it. How many TVs do you have calibrated at your home?
@@ThatHomeTheaterDude honestly none but i do to get some "cali. Setting" from websites, just as a starting point . Thanks for reply, you put out great content man 👍👍