JVC RS2100 (NZ7) vs Epson LS12000 - Motion Comparison Test - 60FPS Full Quality
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2023
- Make sure and change this video to 60FPS under the gear icon to best see the motion. And my apologies in advance, I filmed this at 4K 60HZ on my iPhone 13, and so neither looks particularly smooth, in playback on youtube. In person the Epson LS12000 RTINGS scroll for instance is perfectly smooth and no shadows or outlines. The JVC is a little jerky. The video makes both look jerky. You can try to pause and freeze frame to get some idea of motion clarity, but obviously it's not portraying nearly as clearly as it is to see the delta in person. Hopefully it still gives you some idea.
I recently held an informal comparison between the JVC RS2100 (NZ7) and Epson LS12000 for eight HT enthusiast in the KC area, and this video comparison series will document some of what we saw. The projector comparison was made with each projector in the mode how I use them individually (generally reflective of how the respective owners threads recommend setting each projector up optimally), and splitting a 144” cinema scope Seymour XD screen left and right. More information on that comparison with a summary of all the attendees thoughts can be found here:
www.avsforum.com/threads/an-i...
Also, the specific settings I am using on the Epson LS12000 for dynamic mode are listed in that first post of the link above.
Great comparison Jonathan. The time you spent putting this together is highly appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I personally thought my ls12000 looked better than what I was seeing on the last m wave on youtube. Though I find it hard to match what I see with the camera on my phone. Thanks also for taking the time to post and share your settings via the thread. I'll give them a spin at the weekend.
How are the black levels and shadow details. Specially in netflix hdr shows?
How are the black levels and shadow details in dark scenes like netflix hdr movies. Im at Epson hc3800. Want to upgrade
@@anmolkapoor9595 if you have seen any of the other Epson UB projectors. 5040UB, 5050UB etc. it’s very similar- except the new laser series can fade to full black if there is no content on the screen.
This is exactly the kind of video I was looking for!I really want a projector that smoothes out the motion because that is my number one pet peeve of lower cost projectors, they look great on static and slow moving scenes but completely fall apart in panning and fast movement.
This video sealed the deal for me I wanted laser PJ but was willing to consider the JVC NP5… coming from a Sony 900e motion was one of the reasons I loved that TV. I was considering a Sony Projector but the features and pricing on the LS12000 really made it the top option for me, brightness as well. I pulled the trigger and while some the black levels in some ways might not be as good as the JVC they are still really good regardless. It’s an amazing projector. Thanks for the upload, I notice not enough people mention motion when it comes to these projectors! Thanks for the content love your channel!
Make sure and try some of the custom settings people have developed. For instance. Here are mine:
Post 2890 on the avsforum Epson LS12000 owners thread: www.avsforum.com/threads/official-epson-eh-ls12000-eh-ls11000-owners-thread.3240042/page-145#post-61908563
@@jvonengeln thanks so much for the tip! I had my Sony 900e dialed in nicely but haven’t gotten around to too much in terms of calibration with the LS12000 since the install but out of the box it looks awesome. I will give this a try I went with a gray screen from silver ticket screens, here’s a little video of my current space. I’m in the process of blacking out the room, I’ve gotten a bit further since this post but the next thing I need to do is the ceiling. I went with a gray screen mainly cause sometimes I do have some lights on while listening to music etc… do you think you would change these setting much for a gray screen? I know that might be impossible to answer, just wanted to hear your thoughts! Thanks again for the info!
ua-cam.com/video/O7KDaO8LVGE/v-deo.htmlsi=xPlSphczu67Ghq3b
This was very helpful. Thanks!
need a little more volume in audio recording. Thanks for putting this together. I am on the fence on if i should get LS12000 or pony up for Nz7 for my dedicated space
Very nice helpful video. I have a dedicated theater room but I am games before movies so I will add the Epson to my list.
Spot on. 100% agree. JVC really need to work on their software/processing, the hardware seems great (contrast especially) but they are way behind on processing. I own an NZ8.
I agree the processor on the JCV seems to be a little to be desired on a native projector I could not see buying the JVC. For me its between the Epson and more expensive Sony.
ty for vid
What is the Motion Enhance setting supposed to do on the JVC? I could never tell any difference with it. Also, doesn't the MPC setting affect motion clarity too?
You and me both. The motion enhance doesn't seem to do much to my eyes either. I like frame interpolation off on the JVC.
Most of the time when I see a laser projector, they seem to have weak reds when compared to a lamp based one. I'm still using an old Epson HC3700, and I'm wondering how the LS11000/LS12000 would compare when it comes to producing warmer colors. I mainly watch animation and sci-fi, and I can't stand green/blue push. So far I like the look of the LS12000 here. Though I'm also curious how long the laser and phosphor reflector will really last. What would really be awesome is a 3-LCD setup with independent dimmable R, G and B lasers for each color.
Red does not seem at all a problem in my casual viewing but I do know what you are talking about from seeing cheaper laser and LED and LCD units. The red on something like the Netflix or UA-cam logo looks deep and saturated and accurate.
As to longevity. Epson has released laser home theater units before in the LS10000 and LS10500. Plus they have laser projectors on the commercial side. I expect them to last as long as they say (or more). Which is 20,000 hours to half brightness. With the past experience, they probably have a decent bead on longevity. AND. They aren’t the only game in town doing lasers. As you are aware there are a lot of other laser models in the industry and so the longevity isn’t just a shot in the dark at this point.
I have a Sony XW 6000 projector with a Mad VR Envy Extreme. The picture quality is absolutely amazing. The motion handling on the Sony is perfect. My Envy Extreme is coming out with AI frame interpellation. I think this combination of projector and processor is unbeatable.
True, but you're talking an Epson 12000 at $5000 vs Sony XW 6000 & MVR = $29,000. For 6 times the cost... I'm not sure they're in the same categories anymore. It would make more sense to compare to the JVC NZ9 at that point. You've got a great setup though!
Cool test. I also have the RS2100. Was the AppleTV set to match framerate on? and output 4K24fps or set to match range and framerate off, with the output settings set at 4k60? I had to turn match framerate on with my AppleTV as it had some issues playing 24fps content at 4k60 output, get strange jitter.
Match frame rate was on with Apple TV 4K. That’s the way I use it because it looks the best.
@@jvonengeln I wanted to test this out unfortunately motion control is disabled when I play HDR10+ content from my AppleTV.
Do you have the JVC calibrated correctly for this test? The blacks should appear way darker than the epson, but they look lighter...
Yes. The JVC is setup as shown in it’s filmmaker mode. The Epson actually has objectively higher ANSI contrast with high APL content. The JVC has better contrast with low APL content. So if something is both bright and black on screen at the same time Epson wins. If the overall screen is dim, with overall dark content the JVC black floor wins. I have a video coming up to showcase black floor and contrast. The JVC is Autocal calibrated with a colorchecker display plus. The Epson LS12000 is manually gamma calibrated with the same meter.
What’s your take on the 6050 Epson I got it for a great deal refurbished for 2800. Some people say they’re good. Some people say naw.
excellent choice in projectors - no shame in that unit! enjoy!
I bought the np5 jvc I’m pretty happy with it especially after calibrating it but this comparison is making me think I made the wrong choice. Here in Australia they are around the same price so I figured the jvc being so supreme usually was the way to go.
Hdmi 2.1 was a big seller along with 120hz for future proofing. As well ad the contrast and the black levels.
Did I make the wrong choice? This video really makes the ls1200 look better
You got a great projector. Don’t sweat it. To my eyes, since you asked. The black levels are better on the JVC and it’s noticeable. And JVC has what most seem to say is better HDR tonemapping. I’m not sure I think JVCs tone mapping is as much better as people think. I’ll have a video on that later. Also HDMI lock times are faster on JVC. Everything else is better on the Epson LS12000 to my eyes. (Motion, gaming, sharpness, brightness, pop, laser dimming, GUI, remote, lens memory, lens cover, noise.)
you got a great projector & you're not missing out on anything. Not everyone can afford one I tell you. Enjoy your cool gear Sir! Thank you!
Hi jonathan,
Which one is better in the picture quality between long throw epson ls12000 & ust formovie theater? And which one have better black level and brightness
Thank you
I’m sorry. I have not seen the formovie. But I’m not aware of any ultra short throw projector that beats the big three consumer brands too level long throw from my reading of hands on comparisons and reviews. (JVC Epson Sony). So my strong guess is the Epson LS12000 in a dedicated, light controlled, dark themed, movie theater environment.
I dont have dedicated room.
I planing to installing it in the living room with white walls but controlled lights. Is that enough for Epson LS12000.
Thanks for your advice i really appreciated
hello, i am willing to buy a ls12000b,and i dont know what hdmi cable brand is good,what's the hdmi cable you're using in this video?
I have good luck with a certified ruipro fiber cable for HDMI 2.1 from Amazon.
@@jvonengeln thank you！
Hi, thanks for the video.
Im about to get the ls12000 and also ordered GrandView 130' ALR with 0.6 gain, anyone has a similar screen? Wanted to know if it's a good match 😁
I’m unfamiliar with that screen. I’m sorry. My screen is Seymour XD. It is a higher gain, but not over 1.0. Real world it measures about .85 or .9
whats the Epson LS12000 like with 24fps content I couldn't get on with the amount stutter Oleds had with movies coming from my Sony HW40ES that is butter smooth but sucks for gaming and zero HDR.
24FPS content with Frame Interpolation looks great to me on the Epson. I prefer frame interpolation off on the JVC. If you hate frame interpolation and turn it off on the Epson the. it’ll look like standard 24FPS and the Epson and JVC look very similar with frame interpolation off.
@@jvonengeln Cheers I do dislike interpolation but I've only had a problem with stutter on OLEDS, any idea what FPS the low setting is interpolating to?
@@coopson028 I'm sorry I don't know that answer.
@@jvonengeln No worry's I got the projector and I don't know the FPS is ether I just know i don't like it lucky motion without interpolation is fine for me, too much SOE even on low for me tho.
Good Afternoon Jonathon , I had a JVC NZ7 installed yesterday. would you be willing to anserw some questions about settings ?
Sure
@@jvonengeln thank You , what form of communication woild you prefer ?
@@surshot9292 reach out to me on avsforum. I post as Archaea there.
Hi 🫡 i have a question…. With the Epson it doesn’t matter to play a 4K disc or an HD disc of the same movie, there will be no différence… or…. the picture is nevertheless different for a same title in 4K and HD? Because of his 4K emulation …that’s not clear😩
THANK you.
The Epson will look better on the native 4K disk than a 1080P disk. It has a true 4K pixel display with the 1080p panels pixels just not all at once. There is a 4x 120Hz shift (480Hz) (think circular rotation) One 120Hz frame per pixels in each cycle times 4 cycles per frame as I understand it. So all pixels will show on a 4K disk, just not at the exact same time. Watch one of my other videos showing the Epson LS12000 to show in slow motion what the pixel grid looks like.
@@jvonengeln Thank you very much Jonathan for that answer . I was about to go for the jvc N7...what do you think? You said in a video with youthman that the jvc would be better for dark pictures ...
@@olivier4019 correct. NZ7 has the black floor advantage. So if that is most important to you then it’s the best choice. However many other qualities the Epson does better. So you just have to decide what’s right for you. I prefer the motion on the Epson, I prefer the intrascene contrast on the Epson, I prefer the laser light adjustment on the Epson, I prefer the Epson remote. I won’t comment on color because with calibration they can both be calibrated to a similar point. If they are both calibrated they are also similar brightness. You have to decide if the black floor and dark content watching is important enough to you to spend $6 k more retail. ($5K vs $11K retails)
@@jvonengeln what's most important for me is to watch my Blu Rays 4k collection at their its potential. If you can assure me that i won't be able to guess if it's a native 4k picture or an emulate 4k picture then i would go for the Epson.... But for me the most important thing is to get a 4k definition and experience the gap between the HD and 4k like in a native uhd PJ.
Anyway... thanks a lot for your precious advices.
Olivier
@@olivier4019 the difference in 4K native and 1080p 4x for media is completely inconsequential. If you are comparing PC text at native 4K the native panel with 8K e-shift off on the JVC is a little tiny bit sharper, but it actually messes up on the JVC more with single pixel patterns than it does on the Epson. Having them side by side for months I call resolution and sharpness a draw. I’ll make my next video on this. Stay tuned.
Hey Jonathan, I've been talking to Ryan about picking up either the LS12000 or the JVC NP5 and I'm really struggling to decide on which one... The Epson is obviously brighter and considerably cheaper, but coming from a 7 year old Sony with terrible black levels, I would like to get a nice improvement in that department, and I'm not sure of the Epson will be much better than what I have now.
If black floor for sci fi with overall dark content is the most important thing for you, then the JVC can’t be beat. The Epson’s contrast is somewhere around 4000:1 or 4500:1 real world. The JVC is nearly 4x that. Your 7 year old Sony “probably” has panel degradation and might be as poor as 1000:1 or 2000:1 based on that degradation over time and use (from examples on AVSForum). This has been a problem for Sony. The Epson’s black levels haven’t changed much year to year with the previous UB models. It is, I suspect, at the limit of the LCD technology. The Epson does something better than the JVC though as you have noted and overall I really like both for different reasons!
@@jvonengeln Just going by your off screen footage both images look really good, other than the over saturated colors on the Epson, so I know either way I'll have a huge upgrade. BTW, my Sony is the HW40ES and still has a really good image to my eyes, but I am building a shelf mount in the back of my room to set the projector on, and having manual zoom/lens shift/focus is going to be a real pain to reach everytime if go from 16:9 to Scope ratio.
@@jvonengeln This is a walk around video of my room that I did awhile ago, if you're interested... I've since have added 2 subs to the front wall to improve the bass!
ua-cam.com/video/8O9iomryg6M/v-deo.html
@@TerminatorJuice both the JVC NP5 and above and Epson LS1200 will have automatic lens memory save and recall - with remote controlled lens control settings. The laser Sony 5000 does not. The slightly oversaturated colors on the Epson look great (I’m in my custom dynamic model can be dialed back simply by turning the color slider down. neither of my units are professionally “calibrated” in the video. They are just using popular forum recommended settings.
@@TerminatorJuice your room looks real good. Looks also like full light control. You know, if you are interested in JVC, you might look at the used market for a JVC NX5. Knowing what I know know a $3500 used JVC NX5 is still the sweet spot for JVC. The difference between the NX series and NZ series picture quality is very very small. A friend of mine bought the JVC NZ8, but actually preferred his golden sample NX5. He’s a video calibrator and resold his NZ8 - said he couldn’t make rationale to justify the extra spend - especially since he personally liked his perfect NX5 better. To some degree, the differences in JVC model increases is so small it’s almost like sample variation. (Until you get to NZ9, because it is much much brighter)
Wish the Epson was 4K and had 3D............true 4K that is.
What is the device you’re using to drive these projectors and what is the output: Nvidia shield pro?? 4k60 4:2:2 hdr??
Does it change significantly if you use frame matching mode and 24 fps?
I am using Apple HD TV 4K (2021). Match frame and source is enabled. Epson has better motion than JVC at 24FPS, 30FPS, 60FPS, and 120FPS. Epson LS12000 has its shortcomings but motion is a particular strong attribute.
@@jvonengeln per chance, does Apple 4k 2021+ support 120hz? Never saw anything on the internet that implies that it does, but I also have Ls12000 (you’re Archaea, right? I use your dynamic settings) which I can’t force Nvidia shield pro to 120hz. The ls12000 oddly doesn’t support 1080p120 input signal for whatever reason. I assume you use a gaming pc or ps5/xbox to test 120hz?
@@kabalcage no 120Hz on Apple TV. Just my gaming PC and my Xbox Series X. Yes I’m Archaea on avsforum.
IMO, the NV shield pro output is very poor. E.g. when using the Netflix app, even with their max "AI enhance" it's blurry, especially the text on the controls. Switching to an XBox Series X and it's all nice and crisp (JVC NZ8). NV work to do. Unfortunately there isn't a simple way to have the Xbox become a media player (media app aggregator like shield/GoogleTV (also crisper than shield but slower). And the media remote for XBox is IR only. 🤦♂ Everything is a compromise, a lot of the time due to "lazy" programming or devs that aren't familiar with AV stuff it seems. /rant
@@kabalcage Is the idea to have the player do 120Hz frame insertion or something? Otherwise, given there is probably no video content (mainstream) outputting 120Hz it's probably a moot point. I also don't see 120Hz appearing for quite some time, is it even needed for video?
Maybe it's my monitor, but the Epson seems to have a bit of a red push. That could be a setting.
In my preferred settings it does have a alight red push. The espon is not professionally calibrated in this video, it’s just the dynamic mode catered to my personal tastes. (Dynamic because that’s the only picture mode that allows full fade to black with the laser dimming.)
Good video. Im surprised you havent been attacked by all the JVC fanboys!! 😉
Hard to fight actual testing video proof side by side.
I know JVC is supposed to be known for their great black levels, but during this side-by-side showed the Epson had deeper blacks than the JVC. What you get, for the value, I don't know how you can go wrong with the new Epson.
Keep in mind that a low APL, (overall dim scenes) that's where the JVC will get the trophy! I will be doing a black floor comparison video coming up.
6:02 and you will see the difference that @jvonengeln is talking about. In most of the case, contrast full on/of is always better that ansi contrast.
The jvc has far deeper black levels and higher contrast. Is not even close
I have seen thos amd find it very hard to offer the JVC over the Epson. The JVC will excell when there is less to see!! A bit crazy.
So I mostly watch movies which one is best?
Depends on your preferences. Do you prefer better motion, better gaming, a little bit brighter, and better intrascene contrast? Get the Epson. Do you prefer best black floor with dim dark content and faster HDMI lock times? Get the JVC. Then there is the price, beyond those characteristics. Sharpness differences/resolution differences are of little consequence because they are both great in real world use.
I purchased an RS2100 recently to replace my JVC RS540 that was failing. I'm extremely disappointed in the motion. The 540 was far better. I'm going to have to get used to it because I can't afford another one. I'm not a fan of CMD even on low
Me either. That’s one of the primary reasons I prefer the Epson. The JVC motion interpolation is bad. And I don’t like 24FPS native. I watch dungeons and dragons just last night and there were tons of camera panning sequences and they were so buttery smooth on the Epson LS12000 I just smiled. If Epson can get their dim screen performance to the next level like JVC, JVC would be out of favor.
@@jvonengeln What is frustrating to me is according to comments on AVS, I'm wrong in thinking that an older model was better. I can't easily do an A/B comparison as I only have one HDMI to my projector location, but I never noticed my RS540 have jerky motion. I don't think I had any motion smoothing turned on, and if I did, I never once noticed any soap opera effects. Your comparison proved to me that I'm not crazy and that I don't have any settings wrong as some have alluded to. This is a disappointing expensive purchase. I think I even came across this video when I was researching and felt I could live with this short coming not realizing that it is worse than where I came from.
@@mikestankovich7406 can you return it?
@@jvonengeln Probably not. I got it late June. July slipped by quick with all the events we had going on. A lot of the content I watched early on didn't bother me too much.
Well.. Epson indeed looks better here: Stronger contrast,blacks defined and saturated colours... For half the price.. But LS12000 just like ub6050 have mediocre blacks in reality (got ub6050 myself)
Dynamic mode on the Epson LS12000 is the cats meow. See this comparison here I did with a buddy on avsforum. www.avsforum.com/threads/jvc-rs2100-nz7-autocal-calibrated-vs-epson-ls12000-gamma-calibrated-a-comparison-in-pictures-and-videos.3285715/#nested_reply_top_post
@@jvonengelnah, yeah.. i' ve Read that post 😊
I guess the jvc cost more because less people will buy it
They are riding their reputation I think. Price to performance the JVC is not competitive. I'd say the Epson LS12000 does 80-110% of the JVC RS2100 performance depending on which aspect you are talking about -- and it's 50% the cost.
JVC is way overpriced. Also, they are way overrated by JVC fanboys on UA-cam.
Hi Jonathan, would you say the JVC NZ8 is overall a MUCH better projector than the Epson LS12000?
To the contrary. I’d say the NZ8 and the NZ7 are very close in performance. When I participated in a blind test between them I wouldn’t have been able to tell you which was which if I left the room and came back. I also had a several hour sighted comparison with them, with full use of the remote and open play time with a small group. I personally went home very pleased I hasn’t spent the extra on the NZ8. Here is that comparison linked at avs.
Post 2269. www.avsforum.com/threads/archaeas-multi-purpose-home-theater-room.1525397/page-114#post-61278235
And the page before it has some pictures of the comparison.