@@soroland1agreed. I wouldn’t have known if you didn’t tell me. You made more eye contact and looked at the camera/prompter. Video still felt natural, but not off the cuff. It was good I liked it. Seems like a normal you video.
The only way they could have been worse is if they had accepted sponsorship. The BetFred Line. The McDonalds Line. The Every Little Helps Line. The Good Things Come To Those Who Wait Line.
Always been called the Goblin since the Silverlink days, wish it carried on through the North London line though... but there's a parliamentary train that goes all the way to Willesden Junction...
I'm not sure I get your point? The Goblin has never been anything other than an unofficial name for the line. The police will not be called if we continue to call it that.
11:25, if you prefer to call it the Goblin Line, then call it the Goblin Line. If enough people ignore the names imposed for the names organically created, then maybe they will eventually fix the official name to be the name that most people use.
People of London should really create a petition about this... The "loss" of East London Line already hurt enough, but removing Goblin is basically a heresy
At least Liberty Line opens up the possibility for Carry-On style humour: "I just taken the Liberty" - "I'll say you have, missus!" Such hilarity on the streets of the capital.
I'm a fan of British railway YT, and I think I join everyone in saying "Bruh, the GoBlin was right there." "bUt iT's tOo nIcKnAmeY" - Yeah, so was "Bakerloo" until it became official since it's what everyone called it anyway. Also, if you are a Geoff Marshall subscriber, you may also call the Lizzie Line *sings* Purple Train, Purple Train.
I feel like he has done. Evan mentions Jay Foreman by name all the time in videos. They're colleagues if you will. And I know they have collaborated once or twice. At least, I think they have? Go dig through Evan's stuff. Evan definitely mentions Jay though in quite a number of videos.
"Oh but woman's rights". Sheesh, whoever OK'd these likely never even met a woman. Since when did people start caring about racial/sexual inclusivity for train lines of all things?! I guess some people are REALLY mad about King's Cross.
Havering had historical autonomy. It was known as the Royal Liberty of Havering and a lot of names locally have that connotation. The Liberty shopping centre, Royal Liberty school etc. Its understandable someone not from Havering wouldn't know this, especially with how poorly the line's name origin was described by the media and Tfl. Frankly I would even say a lot of, if not most Havering residents wouldn't know either unless they connected the dots with the name "Liberty" being used now and then around here. The Liberty Line is more of a shuttle than a line anyway lol its kind of pathetic
Another Havering-ite here, agree it has historical lineage what with the other uses of liberty in Romford and North Havering. It's also the motto of the borough Council. As you acknowledge though, barely anyone in Havering knows the origin story of that and the 'Liberty' name is not used to identify anything I can think of in Upminster. Local Tory politicians love it though. I think we can both agree that naming it after one of the least visited stations on the entire TfL network, Emerson Park, when most people use the "push and pull" to go between Romford and Upminster would have been stupid. Frankly, I think they should have used an initialism and a number e.g. M for Metro, U for Untergrundbahn, S Bahn etc. and maybe called it the OG1, OG2 etc. We don't need a billion new names to add to that map, but individual names would be helpful to some degree and particularly to visitors who may not know that the Overground lines do not connect. OG would avoid the existence of the O2 line 😉 but also lend itself to some sort of terrible advertising campaign with Gemma Collins that I totally want to see.
@@MarkWhileyI've always called it the Upminster line or overground and probably Upminster residents call it the Romford line but the new name isnt that bad if you link it to the shops but what i find ironic is that for the tfl 'Liberty Line' posters they put up Havering Village where their only public transport is the Monday to Saturday every 90mins 375...
I lived a bus ride away from Romford (247) for all my childhood. I used to go shopping in the Liberty Centre. If the line hadn't been named Liberty I don't think I would ever have found out all the history.
To hear you keep saying underground and overground, the Wombles theme tune is stuck in my head now! Underground, overground Wombling free. The Wombles of Wimbledon Common are we....
The Lioness Line is generally known as the Watford DC Line. The other line that runs parallel to it is known as the Watford AC Line. The Mildmay Line is generally known as the North London Line. The problem with it is, if you want to go to the Mildmay Hospital which it is named after, you need to take the Windrush Line, not that one. The Windrush Line actually used to be an underground line, and was called the East London Line. At Whitechapel, you have the situation where the Overground is underground and the Underground is overground. It was also orange on the Tube Map, and brought its colour to the Overground. I think it should have kept the colour orange. The Weaver Line is known as the Lea Valley Lines. I think they should have been given two or three separate line names, much like the Northern Line should be split in two. Most of the £6m is for changing all the signs everywhere to point to the new line names, and say when they are experiencing disruption. My proposals for the Northern Line are: The City and South London Line for the Morden branch, and the Hampstead Line for the other branch. The Northern Line is not the most northerly Line, that is the Metropolitan Line, but it is the most southerly. Every single new line opened by London Transport and Transport for London has been named after a Queen - Victoria, Jubilee, and Elizabeth. The original proposal for the Victoria Line was the Viking line, because it goes between Victoria and Kings Cross, in much the same way that the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway became known first unofficially and later officially as the Bakerloo Line.
The Watford AC Line is also better known as the West Coast Main Line. It makes logical sense, but I've never heard that name used. As for splitting the Northern Line, I'm afraid there's not a hope of doing that until you unscramble the mess that is Camden Town station. The junction just to the north of the station is easily one of the busiest and most critical pieces of infrastructure on the entire TfL network, so you need to segregate that junction, and massively increase the passenger capacity of the station for it to be a suitable interchange station before you can consider splitting the Northern in two.
@MasterTramsUA-cam The Northern does get operated as two separate lins during rush hour (at least as far as Camden Town junction is concerned, so it's certainly not impossible to separate the line in 2.
I'm most aggrieved with the goblin line name change. Regarding the Liberty line I don't really like it because of the Americans and what they've done to the word but it does make sense for the area as it mainly runs within what used to be referred to as the Royal Liberty of Havering. Which is why there is also Liberty within the names of lots of local things in the area such as the Liberty Shopping Centre
When Gospel Oak to Barking was electrified recently it was nearly called the eGoblin line. I mocked up some very bad images of a goblin with a paternoster cable antennaes
lioness line = cat line, mildmay line = may line, windrush line = fart line, weaver line = wee line, suffragette line = goblin line, liberty line = free line (to confuse tourists)
The irony of spending money naming lines after historically oppressed, impoverished and ignored groups, while simultaneously letting that public transport system remain so bad and unreliable that the impoverished and often ignored people cannot effectively use or afford it. What good is naming a line after the suffragettes when just recently I saw a women in a wheelchair unable to get to the platform because none of the lifts were in operation?
And of course, 6 million quid is really going to fix all those problems isn't it? It'd probably cost more to replace just those lifts at that station. Blame the government for not funding TfL properly.
The Liberty Line is named after the area which used to be a Royal Liberty, something that existed centuries before the US. It's actually the most accurately named line in the list. Also Camden Town is the reason the Northern Line isn't two lines. It needs to be entirely rebuilt. I'm pretty sure the Fleet became part of the sewage system.
I wrote a similar comment on jago hazzards video of this but I wanted to write it here as well. My grandparents were windrush. We really don't need or want a line named after us. I find it cringe and it brings more unnecessary attention to us. We also live in west London so we'll never touch this line. Also, in these stupid culture war times. It's just going to stir up jealousy and angst with people critical of the windrush people and I don't want that in my life. And like how you funnily showed, in context it can actually provide a lot of chances for those critical of us to have a dig at us when the windrush line is going bad. As a result, I'm going to be disassociating with this name windrush as much as possible. I have to. We didn't even know we were fricken called "windrush" until that's what they started calling us. I also believe all this is the mayor playing politics to garner points and I don't like it and too add most of the names are too cringely and hard on the nose anyways.
You got off the Windrush in Tilbury (on the LTS Line) , and later Lambeth council created Windrush Square (on the site of the Orange Luxury Coaches Coach Station.)
I don't get the point of being this level of politics for line names either. We EXPECT lines to be named after monarchy or important places in the area, but not this. Why name a line after the inability for women to vote if no-one but the Mayor (who's a MAN) had the power to give the line a name anyway??? Same goes for Lioness line, since at least more people have HEARD of Wembley over some sports victory a few years ago.
@@YujiUedaFanThe point of the line not being named after monarchy is because the last three lines have been named after the former Queen. Ordinary people make up London and that's what the lines are to commemorate. It also means that tourists will look up and find out information about ordinary Londoners. I knew the history behind some of the line names but didn't know about the connection between Havering and Liberty.
@MasalaMan the culture wars are part of this declining government's history. The name of the line will outlast this horrid government. My parents, some of my other family and friends were part of Windrush generation. They settled around Clapham Junction. Lambeth council fought to have a line named in their honour.
I'd guess the Suffragette Line has a better-than-average likelihood of being shortened to the "jet line" in actual practice, if "goblin line" doesn't end up sticking.
The lionesses line I like, although I am a women’s football fan, the Lionesses are pioneers in women’s football and the growth of women’s sport (having pushed for increased sports participation for girls in schools etc), and their win is the first major trophy since 1966. They have done incredible things and I think it’s a fine enough way to commemorate it. Also, the fact that it’s not a men’s reference to the three lions have pissed people off in a very funny way.
Came to say exactly this. Maybe it's lack of sports knowledge, but the lionesses did a lot more than win one game in terms of significance to english football. My interpretation is the line is more honouring the legacy of the achievement and the changes we've seen in womems football since, rather than just the win itself.
@@sophiagunner4984I personally just have misgivings not about the attachment to their actual substantive achievements, but about them probably having a line named after them only because they won the women’s Euros and that’s the only thing that got people’s attention. It seems so superficial because if they hadn’t won the women’s Euros no one in the public or media would probably give a toss. The name is essentially a monument to our short attention span and revisionism.
Windrush should be Brunel, and the suffergete line called Windrush. Mainly because I can spell suffergete so no chance me texting anyone where I'm stuck if I'm on it
9:00 That is a fantastic name and it honours one of the greatest Engineers/engineering family. Windrush is a nice gesture... but being in the complete opposite side of town to where most "Windrush" people settled it feels ridiculous.
As someone who lives in the Lea Valley, I would like to make you aware that it is pronounced Lee not Le-ah. It's also and absolutely lovely place to explore nature and has some really great nature reserves on it, well worth the visit. I actually found it quite interesting that they decided to call it the weaver line, as Hertfordshire textiles was something me and a group of people did a project on for a local museum back when I was in secondary school. It was an area of local history that I was completely ignorant of up until that point, so it will probably help with the general awareness of the history. That being said I would have preferred it to be called the Lea Valley Line.
The renaming is all about forward planning. The Windrush Line will eventually be extended to Oxfordshire, The Lioness Line to Longleat, The Liberty Line will be free to ride, The Suffragette Line will be playing Paul McCartney songs, The Weaver Line will be realigned to have more curves along its length and the Mildmay line will eventually be sponsored by the Met Office with name changes made to reflect the time of year such as The Phew-what-a-scorcher-August Line or The Blisteringly-Cold-February Line.
Back in the mists of time when I lived in Acton, the North London Line was the actual name for this section of line.....no idea why this name should have been turned down by Government, as it was a pre-existing name, and literally describes what it is....weird! River Lea - pronounced and even sometimes officially spelt 'Lee'.
"Tea Run" is actually a nickname for very short branches from how with old stovetop kettles that took several minutes to boil, crews could put the kettle on, operate the shuttle & it would be boiled when they got back.
"The Windrush isn't rushing" will fit quite well for whenever that line has delays. And for the Liberty Line, it's not named for the American usage but because of Middle Ages form of proto-Local government. The big shopping centre in that region is called the Liberty Centre, so it is a name with some local significance.
It was difficult to decide on which half of the advert was being read from a teleprompter, but I would say it was the second half being read from one based on the speed of talking.
(Technically, only 45% of the Underground network is actually below ground) Most Overground services run at least every 15 minutes, and on some lines there are 2 services combined to give a train every 7/8 minutes or better (Stratford to Willesden Junction on the Mildmay Line, Highbury & Islington to Sydenham on the Windrush Line (and every 4 minutes between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays)). The only routes that don't run every 15 minutes are between Romford and Upminster on the Liberty Line, and the outer branches of the Weaver Line beyond Edmonton to Enfield Town or Cheshunt. Although the Mildmay Line doesn't run near the Mildmay Hospital that it is apparently named after, it does run through the council ward of Mildmay (including Canonbury station) and there's a former station called Mildmay Park on the line as well. Agree the Brunel Line would have been a much better name. Liberty Line is named after the historic region of the Liberty of Havering (also commemorated by the Liberty Shopping Centre in Romford) - so it does have a genuine historic and local connection, albeit not one that anyone outside Romford knows about.
I had almost the same reaction to the line renaming, especially with the goblin line. That broke my heart. However, there is deeper meaning to the name Liberty line. Havering (the borough it runs through) used to be a very politically independent local authority called the 'Liberty of Havering' which made it somewhat independent from central government. I"m not sure how it worked but the line name is a nod to that. I used to live up there, Emerson Park was my local station, so the line and area has a special place in my heart.
Thing is with these lines, most of them are pr stunts where as most of the underground lines were names of the original names of the railways that built them
The things you are referring as 2015 proposals have actually been the names given to these lines for much longer time than that. In some cases it's the official name from many decades or even hundreds of years (ex: the Lea Valley Lines, the East London Line - you can easily google them up). In other cases it's an unofficial name more recently adopted by locals and/or train enthusiasts but that has still been around way before 2015 (ex: Goblin). A pedantic exception might be the Watford Local Line, which is better known as the Watford DC Line due to the usage of DC power. Milday is not just the name of an hospital, it is the name of an area in London where the hospital is situated. The Mildmay line actually goes through that area, so not that far from the hospital, but the nearest station to the hospital is in a different train line. So, indeed you wouldn't use a Mildmay line station to get to Mildmay hospital, but the line does go through Mildmay. Not supporting it though, I don't like the name.
Brits (and Aussies) love abbreviating words, and especially names. In no time these will become: the Windy, The Lion (which nullifies the original intention), the Suffer Line (or Suffering), Mildly, Weavers, and travellers will either say Libline, or they'll take a Liberty.
The reason the overground isn’t as frequent (except the soon to be windrush line) is because they share tracks with freight. I also think the meanings of the line names will be lost sooner rather than later and in the end they’re just names…
5:44 What was wrong with just calling it the "Watford line"?! It makes the most sense... considering its other side is Euston station... and naming it "Euston line" could potentially confuse some and anger some who want it for their line.
I really can't agree that Jubilee, Victoria and Elizabeth are any less political than any of the new line names. The notion that tributes to the monarchy are apolitical is, itself, political.
You joke about Harrow and Wealdstone sounding like a Harrow Potter shop, but you do have to go through it to get to the studio where the films were made and you can still see the sets.
Also, for what its worth, the "originally proposed names" were the original names when the lines were built and even the generally used names in most of the paperwork under TFL. Although the £6 million included the rebranding of all the signs and maps.
As much as I understand, and to some extent agree with, the grievances about the new names. I find it irritating people keep saying things like "£6mln for *this*!?" like the cost of it has anything to do with the actual naming of it, most of the money will have gone to the commissioning of new signage and announcements for the entirety of london's enormous transport network.
The extra annoying thing about the name of the Lioness Line is that they named it that because it stops at North Wembley, the one Wembley station that’s nowhere near the stadium.
2:10 Actually, I believe parts of the Harry Potter movies were shot at Harrow school! (The private school!) Also, that same Overground line goes on to Watford... where the Harry Potter Warner Bro. Studio Tour is! So, it is quite likely a tourist would wander there! 🤓
I rather like The North London Line, a name which existed for decades way back to steam trains. For a while it was Silverlink which was stupid, especially as the trains were blue and the District Line, with which it shared track between Richmond and Gunnersbury, had silver trains. Plenty of tourists at Kew Gardens got that one wrong
One of the arguments I've heard for not using this name is to avoid confusion with the Northern Line. Which... actually makes a lot of sense. Especially for non-locals.
Tbh I don't care what the lines are called. For someone that uses the Overground a lot, I find it very convenient to get from South London to the rest of London across the Thames. There's a lack of Underground in the South so the Overground makes up for it.
I worked at a school in brixton that has the effra river under it. School used to be closed when it rained really hard because the river overflowed and would flood the ground floor . Couldn't tell in the ad which part was read or not as you were faced directly to camera. Whereas during thw vid i did note a point a 2 but i was like you're just reading your notes. Basically it wasn't distracting or anythung, it flowed naturally
Evan, yes, yes, yes! Agree with everything you said. In my view they should have gone with:- East London Line, Goblin Line, Emerson Park Line, North London Line and Harlequin Line (a portmanteau from Harrow, London Euston)
As an American who lived in France and visited England and am back in the USA and follow British politics I find your channel quite delightful. Bravo, sir! Carry on, lad! 🇬🇧
The Liberty Line holds a connection to Havering’s history. The region once served as a royal manor and ancient liberty. The manor's long-standing possession by the Crown from the 11th to the 19th centuries, along with its role as the site of Havering Palace during the 13th to the late 17th century, underscores the area's deep-rooted ties to regal heritage. This is equally reflected in other local names, e.g. The Liberty Shopping Centre in Romford town, or The Royal Liberty School. Still a rubbish name for a train line tbh. Although I do like the idea of hopping off the Libby, onto the Lizzy.
This somehow makes me glad that in Germany they just number the lines. Doesn't matter if subway or bus or tram. They are simply numbered xD Btw: Love the colour of your brown shirt :3
The “north London line” was always called that from long before they came up with the idea of the “overground.” It’s at least 60 years old by my recollection.
Hi. First, I wanted to say that I truly enjoy your videos. Thanks for all that you do. I hope to visit England for the first time next year. I'm from Chicago, and I'm so glad that they changed the "L" train and subway lines from names to colors back in 1993. Makes it so much easier to navigate.
Locals will probably continue to call it the Goblin line. Here the Franklin Mills Mall was renamed to the Philadelphia Mills Mall like 10 years ago... and I and everyone else I know still call it Franklin Mills.
If only you knew the awfulness of public transport in some places in England that are not London (or Manchester, Birmingham or any of the large cities) you'd care less about the names and be thankful for a terrific public transport service that works... I'd be happy if our half hourly bus turned up on time and didn't break down.. what's worse, the two buses follow slightly different routes so actually there is often an hour between the bus that takes you directly where you want to go.😢
As a tourist from the US, I ended up in Stoke Newington on the “Weaver” line (Lea Valley lines Enfield Town / Cheshunt branches) of the Overground for the best dosas and parathas of my life, so there’s that.
As the world-renowned internet sensation Jago Hazzard said, the suffragette will just be called the suffering line whenever there’s a delay. This is inevitable and you cannot prevent it. Also “I’m riding the suffragette” sounds a bit strange…
To your question at the end, your glances down to your right would suggest to me that it was the first half of the advert you were reading. That could of course be a tic you have, and it was the second half when you had to concentrate on looking ahead at the teleprompter to read it. (Clever way to get us to stick around for the ad though, I hope they appreciate it!)
Unpopular opinion, I like the names. As someone living near Brockley (on the new Windrush Line) I much prefer "Windrush" to "Brunel" or "Old East London" (which I've never heard anyone call it)
As a non Londoner, it makes me chuckle people care so much about the names, I thought most of them were pretty neat! But, I also say them or see them absolutely never
The difference I find with the Jubilee and Elizabeth line names are those two aspects of the country distinctly stem from British roots and culture. We shouldn't be opposed to politics, but only politics that doesn't represent our overall culture. The same can't be said for most of these new line names, most of which stem from events that are either virtuous hot topics among politicans or celebrated artifically but not naturally by the British public. There was more thought behind the Goblin line than all of these lines put together.
Big thanks to NordVPN for sponsoring this video! Sign up to get a huuuuge discount on a 2 year plan 😎 nordvpn.com/evan
6 million? That's less than sunaks last yrs tax evasion amount
Second half you were reading. But that's because I was really concentrating. I had no idea during the main video you were reading off a teleprompter.
@@soroland1agreed. I wouldn’t have known if you didn’t tell me. You made more eye contact and looked at the camera/prompter.
Video still felt natural, but not off the cuff. It was good I liked it. Seems like a normal you video.
I've already heard Weavers Line referred to as 'the Clothes Line' - which I prefer.
BRILLIANT
"I took the washing line to work today. It was a breeze"
Shouldn't that be (Fe)breeze? 🙂@@owennoad-watson2820
It was Fabreeze@@owennoad-watson2820
@@owennoad-watson2820 hahahaha funny
The only way they could have been worse is if they had accepted sponsorship. The BetFred Line. The McDonalds Line. The Every Little Helps Line. The Good Things Come To Those Who Wait Line.
Good things the Tories aren't in charge.
Tbf at least that would've been funny
I can't believe it's not Butter! Line
The washing Line...
The Emirates Air Line 🫢
“Sorry that I’m late, I’m still suffering on the suffragette line!” Does have a nice ring to it
Remember, WE can't vote for better train line names! That name really rubs it in. >:(
In summer it will become the suffer line
@@nicktrains2234 or in true london fashion, the suffy g line#
Or the Suff RAGE tte line
If they wanted the most British name imaginable, they should have called one of them the Liney McLineface Line.
Democracy at its finest
The lines are named like someone starting a dissertation the night before the deadline.
Too bad they missed out on the freeing of slaves, since they could have called a line "The Underground Railroad Line" for an above ground line.
Or in the run up to a mayoral election
@@YujiUedaFan 💀💀💀
Bruh @@YujiUedaFan
Loss of Goblin is the worst thing...
They were trolling you
Always been called the Goblin since the Silverlink days, wish it carried on through the North London line though... but there's a parliamentary train that goes all the way to Willesden Junction...
I'm not sure I get your point? The Goblin has never been anything other than an unofficial name for the line. The police will not be called if we continue to call it that.
@@philwoodward5069The Police will be called, as it is seen as offensive to little people.
@@quantisedspace7047 Goblins are not particularly small tho...
I used to commute through West Croydon and you're absolutely right when you called it an early death
11:25, if you prefer to call it the Goblin Line, then call it the Goblin Line. If enough people ignore the names imposed for the names organically created, then maybe they will eventually fix the official name to be the name that most people use.
People of London should really create a petition about this... The "loss" of East London Line already hurt enough, but removing Goblin is basically a heresy
they wont rename them, its just labour trying to pander to their voter base
regrettably, most people simply do not care enough for this to ever happen. But I agree about the sacrilege incurred by rejecting the name Goblin
I will be calling the Liberty line the Libby Line. The Lizzy Line’s long lost sister
I’d call it the Bert Line - Liberty without the Liy…
Or the Bertie after QE2’s father
At least Liberty Line opens up the possibility for Carry-On style humour: "I just taken the Liberty" - "I'll say you have, missus!" Such hilarity on the streets of the capital.
100% its going to be the Libby line. The goblin. The windy and the Wembley
I feel like Libby and Lizzy are too similar.
@@LiqdPT Just "LIb"... "the Lib line"... no relation to any libs or liberals or liberal democrats etc.
And, of course, the Suffer Line.
Also I suspect Mildmay will become Mildew because London.
@@ib9rtsuffy G line 😂
I'm a fan of British railway YT, and I think I join everyone in saying "Bruh, the GoBlin was right there."
"bUt iT's tOo nIcKnAmeY" - Yeah, so was "Bakerloo" until it became official since it's what everyone called it anyway.
Also, if you are a Geoff Marshall subscriber, you may also call the Lizzie Line *sings* Purple Train, Purple Train.
You need to talk to Map Men
Collaboration time
Map men map men map map MAP men men men men men... Men men.
I feel like he actually has done. They do communicate. They have definitely had some interaction.
I feel like he has done. Evan mentions Jay Foreman by name all the time in videos. They're colleagues if you will. And I know they have collaborated once or twice. At least, I think they have? Go dig through Evan's stuff. Evan definitely mentions Jay though in quite a number of videos.
@@vladekvik2228 you missed map off the end you slackerjack
I like the idea of using river names for the lines. Or other historical context. Neutral and interesting at the same time.
Like... ThamesLink 😜
"Oh but woman's rights". Sheesh, whoever OK'd these likely never even met a woman. Since when did people start caring about racial/sexual inclusivity for train lines of all things?! I guess some people are REALLY mad about King's Cross.
or the fleet line
Brent Line for the proposed West London Orbital, joining start and end of the River Brent via Brent Cross Town and Brentford
Havering had historical autonomy. It was known as the Royal Liberty of Havering and a lot of names locally have that connotation. The Liberty shopping centre, Royal Liberty school etc.
Its understandable someone not from Havering wouldn't know this, especially with how poorly the line's name origin was described by the media and Tfl. Frankly I would even say a lot of, if not most Havering residents wouldn't know either unless they connected the dots with the name "Liberty" being used now and then around here.
The Liberty Line is more of a shuttle than a line anyway lol its kind of pathetic
UpRom perhaps?
Another Havering-ite here, agree it has historical lineage what with the other uses of liberty in Romford and North Havering. It's also the motto of the borough Council. As you acknowledge though, barely anyone in Havering knows the origin story of that and the 'Liberty' name is not used to identify anything I can think of in Upminster. Local Tory politicians love it though.
I think we can both agree that naming it after one of the least visited stations on the entire TfL network, Emerson Park, when most people use the "push and pull" to go between Romford and Upminster would have been stupid.
Frankly, I think they should have used an initialism and a number e.g. M for Metro, U for Untergrundbahn, S Bahn etc. and maybe called it the OG1, OG2 etc. We don't need a billion new names to add to that map, but individual names would be helpful to some degree and particularly to visitors who may not know that the Overground lines do not connect.
OG would avoid the existence of the O2 line 😉 but also lend itself to some sort of terrible advertising campaign with Gemma Collins that I totally want to see.
@@MarkWhileyI've always called it the Upminster line or overground and probably Upminster residents call it the Romford line but the new name isnt that bad if you link it to the shops but what i find ironic is that for the tfl 'Liberty Line' posters they put up Havering Village where their only public transport is the Monday to Saturday every 90mins 375...
I lived a bus ride away from Romford (247) for all my childhood. I used to go shopping in the Liberty Centre. If the line hadn't been named Liberty I don't think I would ever have found out all the history.
I've always called the "Liberty Line" the Halt, but I lived at the in between station.
To hear you keep saying underground and overground, the Wombles theme tune is stuck in my head now! Underground, overground Wombling free. The Wombles of Wimbledon Common are we....
Made worse by the fact that at Whitechapel the Overground is underground and the Underground is overground.
I'm having this exact problem watching this video😂 it's stuck in my head now!
The Lioness Line is generally known as the Watford DC Line. The other line that runs parallel to it is known as the Watford AC Line.
The Mildmay Line is generally known as the North London Line. The problem with it is, if you want to go to the Mildmay Hospital which it is named after, you need to take the Windrush Line, not that one.
The Windrush Line actually used to be an underground line, and was called the East London Line. At Whitechapel, you have the situation where the Overground is underground and the Underground is overground. It was also orange on the Tube Map, and brought its colour to the Overground. I think it should have kept the colour orange.
The Weaver Line is known as the Lea Valley Lines. I think they should have been given two or three separate line names, much like the Northern Line should be split in two.
Most of the £6m is for changing all the signs everywhere to point to the new line names, and say when they are experiencing disruption.
My proposals for the Northern Line are: The City and South London Line for the Morden branch, and the Hampstead Line for the other branch. The Northern Line is not the most northerly Line, that is the Metropolitan Line, but it is the most southerly.
Every single new line opened by London Transport and Transport for London has been named after a Queen - Victoria, Jubilee, and Elizabeth. The original proposal for the Victoria Line was the Viking line, because it goes between Victoria and Kings Cross, in much the same way that the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway became known first unofficially and later officially as the Bakerloo Line.
The Watford AC Line is also better known as the West Coast Main Line. It makes logical sense, but I've never heard that name used.
As for splitting the Northern Line, I'm afraid there's not a hope of doing that until you unscramble the mess that is Camden Town station. The junction just to the north of the station is easily one of the busiest and most critical pieces of infrastructure on the entire TfL network, so you need to segregate that junction, and massively increase the passenger capacity of the station for it to be a suitable interchange station before you can consider splitting the Northern in two.
@MasterTramsUA-cam The Northern does get operated as two separate lins during rush hour (at least as far as Camden Town junction is concerned, so it's certainly not impossible to separate the line in 2.
I'm most aggrieved with the goblin line name change. Regarding the Liberty line I don't really like it because of the Americans and what they've done to the word but it does make sense for the area as it mainly runs within what used to be referred to as the Royal Liberty of Havering. Which is why there is also Liberty within the names of lots of local things in the area such as the Liberty Shopping Centre
I shopped at Liberty in the 90s and didn’t realise that.
When Gospel Oak to Barking was electrified recently it was nearly called the eGoblin line. I mocked up some very bad images of a goblin with a paternoster cable antennaes
lioness line = cat line,
mildmay line = may line,
windrush line = fart line,
weaver line = wee line,
suffragette line = goblin line,
liberty line = free line (to confuse tourists)
How about a pun for a station name? Liber-Tea. Can't believe you missed that option!
FYI, knowing it's the River Lea or Lee (alternative spelling) will clue you in to its pronunciation.
I mean we can't trust the public not to name it "liney mcline face", but this isn't much better
"Highbury & Islington to an early death"
As someone who grew up in Croydon and can relate, that made me laugh
*stares in one train an hour*
It use to be one every 30mins...
*cries in Northern*
The irony of spending money naming lines after historically oppressed, impoverished and ignored groups, while simultaneously letting that public transport system remain so bad and unreliable that the impoverished and often ignored people cannot effectively use or afford it. What good is naming a line after the suffragettes when just recently I saw a women in a wheelchair unable to get to the platform because none of the lifts were in operation?
And of course, 6 million quid is really going to fix all those problems isn't it? It'd probably cost more to replace just those lifts at that station. Blame the government for not funding TfL properly.
@@TalesOfWar What is your point?
@@InsoIenceI think they meant that renaming the lines cost 6 million.
@@YujiUedaFan most of that cost will be to update the signage and posters. I don't think the bureaucrat that came up the new names got 6million quid.
@@jezp1976Yeah that's what I meant. I know they won't get the money, just the overall cost.
The Liberty Line is named after the area which used to be a Royal Liberty, something that existed centuries before the US. It's actually the most accurately named line in the list.
Also Camden Town is the reason the Northern Line isn't two lines. It needs to be entirely rebuilt.
I'm pretty sure the Fleet became part of the sewage system.
Re the Fleet, Not sure it became part of the sewer system, I think it always was, they just paved over it.
yeah but nobody cares about the liberty of havering
not even the people living within the borough of havering care it's such a nothingburger imo
I wrote a similar comment on jago hazzards video of this but I wanted to write it here as well. My grandparents were windrush. We really don't need or want a line named after us. I find it cringe and it brings more unnecessary attention to us. We also live in west London so we'll never touch this line. Also, in these stupid culture war times. It's just going to stir up jealousy and angst with people critical of the windrush people and I don't want that in my life. And like how you funnily showed, in context it can actually provide a lot of chances for those critical of us to have a dig at us when the windrush line is going bad. As a result, I'm going to be disassociating with this name windrush as much as possible. I have to. We didn't even know we were fricken called "windrush" until that's what they started calling us. I also believe all this is the mayor playing politics to garner points and I don't like it and too add most of the names are too cringely and hard on the nose anyways.
You got off the Windrush in Tilbury (on the LTS Line) , and later Lambeth council created Windrush Square (on the site of the Orange Luxury Coaches Coach Station.)
I don't get the point of being this level of politics for line names either. We EXPECT lines to be named after monarchy or important places in the area, but not this. Why name a line after the inability for women to vote if no-one but the Mayor (who's a MAN) had the power to give the line a name anyway??? Same goes for Lioness line, since at least more people have HEARD of Wembley over some sports victory a few years ago.
@@YujiUedaFanThe point of the line not being named after monarchy is because the last three lines have been named after the former Queen. Ordinary people make up London and that's what the lines are to commemorate. It also means that tourists will look up and find out information about ordinary Londoners. I knew the history behind some of the line names but didn't know about the connection between Havering and Liberty.
@MasalaMan the culture wars are part of this declining government's history. The name of the line will outlast this horrid government. My parents, some of my other family and friends were part of Windrush generation. They settled around Clapham Junction. Lambeth council fought to have a line named in their honour.
@@MsPeabody1231Except a lot of the new lines names will age horribly like Lioness Line.
I'd guess the Suffragette Line has a better-than-average likelihood of being shortened to the "jet line" in actual practice, if "goblin line" doesn't end up sticking.
The lionesses line I like, although I am a women’s football fan, the Lionesses are pioneers in women’s football and the growth of women’s sport (having pushed for increased sports participation for girls in schools etc), and their win is the first major trophy since 1966. They have done incredible things and I think it’s a fine enough way to commemorate it. Also, the fact that it’s not a men’s reference to the three lions have pissed people off in a very funny way.
Came to say exactly this. Maybe it's lack of sports knowledge, but the lionesses did a lot more than win one game in terms of significance to english football. My interpretation is the line is more honouring the legacy of the achievement and the changes we've seen in womems football since, rather than just the win itself.
Agreed re the funny it's pissed people off
@@sophiagunner4984I personally just have misgivings not about the attachment to their actual substantive achievements, but about them probably having a line named after them only because they won the women’s Euros and that’s the only thing that got people’s attention. It seems so superficial because if they hadn’t won the women’s Euros no one in the public or media would probably give a toss. The name is essentially a monument to our short attention span and revisionism.
Windrush should be Brunel, and the suffergete line called Windrush.
Mainly because I can spell suffergete so no chance me texting anyone where I'm stuck if I'm on it
River Lea is pronounced Lee - Adele has a song about it
That's what I thought!
@@YujiUedaFanyep. Never heard it called the lee-ah (except by Evan (it is also known as the River Lee anyway)
9:00 That is a fantastic name and it honours one of the greatest Engineers/engineering family. Windrush is a nice gesture... but being in the complete opposite side of town to where most "Windrush" people settled it feels ridiculous.
As someone who lives in the Lea Valley, I would like to make you aware that it is pronounced Lee not Le-ah. It's also and absolutely lovely place to explore nature and has some really great nature reserves on it, well worth the visit. I actually found it quite interesting that they decided to call it the weaver line, as Hertfordshire textiles was something me and a group of people did a project on for a local museum back when I was in secondary school. It was an area of local history that I was completely ignorant of up until that point, so it will probably help with the general awareness of the history. That being said I would have preferred it to be called the Lea Valley Line.
Now I know of the goblin line, I will now be referring to it as the goblin line.
7:53 The windrush line also goes to battersea park if you didn't know
The renaming is all about forward planning. The Windrush Line will eventually be extended to Oxfordshire, The Lioness Line to Longleat, The Liberty Line will be free to ride, The Suffragette Line will be playing Paul McCartney songs, The Weaver Line will be realigned to have more curves along its length and the Mildmay line will eventually be sponsored by the Met Office with name changes made to reflect the time of year such as The Phew-what-a-scorcher-August Line or The Blisteringly-Cold-February Line.
Back in the mists of time when I lived in Acton, the North London Line was the actual name for this section of line.....no idea why this name should have been turned down by Government, as it was a pre-existing name, and literally describes what it is....weird!
River Lea - pronounced and even sometimes officially spelt 'Lee'.
The only line that historically deserves the moniker "Windrush" is the Tilbury Loop of my local LTS - after all Tilbury is where the story started.
"Tea Run" is actually a nickname for very short branches from how with old stovetop kettles that took several minutes to boil, crews could put the kettle on, operate the shuttle & it would be boiled when they got back.
I would much prefer 'Goblin' , for my local line! (Gospel Oak to Barking)
I've literally never heard anyone call it that and I used to live around it for most of my life... always been called the Barking line or Walthamstow.
@@ahuman9143 both of those names would be more preferable than the ' new' hard to-pronounce-quickly name!
1:46 West Croydon is the early death... so Croydon is the death. I agree. Makes sense. 🤣
"The Windrush isn't rushing" will fit quite well for whenever that line has delays.
And for the Liberty Line, it's not named for the American usage but because of Middle Ages form of proto-Local government. The big shopping centre in that region is called the Liberty Centre, so it is a name with some local significance.
I hadn’t even considered calling it the Lizzy line… I actually do tend to say the full “Elizabeth line” and I get it about once a week.
Yep first Ive heard of it too.
Saying that Im going to use it going fwd.
0:36 fun fact, the overground is mostly overground, and fun fuct pt 2, there are parts where the overground goes under the underground
"An early death" the way I laughed out loud.
It was difficult to decide on which half of the advert was being read from a teleprompter, but I would say it was the second half being read from one based on the speed of talking.
I agree, it was probably the second half, but I really couldn't tell
I would also say second half as his eye movement looked more like someone who was reading but it may simply be confirmation bias on my part
As I have previously commented elsewhere, Suffragettes shall now be known as Goblins in the London Consciousness.
Goblinettes or Goblettes if you will.
(Technically, only 45% of the Underground network is actually below ground)
Most Overground services run at least every 15 minutes, and on some lines there are 2 services combined to give a train every 7/8 minutes or better (Stratford to Willesden Junction on the Mildmay Line, Highbury & Islington to Sydenham on the Windrush Line (and every 4 minutes between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays)). The only routes that don't run every 15 minutes are between Romford and Upminster on the Liberty Line, and the outer branches of the Weaver Line beyond Edmonton to Enfield Town or Cheshunt.
Although the Mildmay Line doesn't run near the Mildmay Hospital that it is apparently named after, it does run through the council ward of Mildmay (including Canonbury station) and there's a former station called Mildmay Park on the line as well.
Agree the Brunel Line would have been a much better name.
Liberty Line is named after the historic region of the Liberty of Havering (also commemorated by the Liberty Shopping Centre in Romford) - so it does have a genuine historic and local connection, albeit not one that anyone outside Romford knows about.
Thank you! Yes the underground is overground
I had almost the same reaction to the line renaming, especially with the goblin line. That broke my heart. However, there is deeper meaning to the name Liberty line. Havering (the borough it runs through) used to be a very politically independent local authority called the 'Liberty of Havering' which made it somewhat independent from central government. I"m not sure how it worked but the line name is a nod to that. I used to live up there, Emerson Park was my local station, so the line and area has a special place in my heart.
How about “The Goblin Tea” line named after the “teasmade” - an important, almost forgotten, British appliance.
The Mildmay Mission actually covered a large "parish" of east london and has a long history forming pre NHS cheap hospital and medical care
Thing is with these lines, most of them are pr stunts where as most of the underground lines were names of the original names of the railways that built them
The things you are referring as 2015 proposals have actually been the names given to these lines for much longer time than that. In some cases it's the official name from many decades or even hundreds of years (ex: the Lea Valley Lines, the East London Line - you can easily google them up). In other cases it's an unofficial name more recently adopted by locals and/or train enthusiasts but that has still been around way before 2015 (ex: Goblin). A pedantic exception might be the Watford Local Line, which is better known as the Watford DC Line due to the usage of DC power.
Milday is not just the name of an hospital, it is the name of an area in London where the hospital is situated. The Mildmay line actually goes through that area, so not that far from the hospital, but the nearest station to the hospital is in a different train line. So, indeed you wouldn't use a Mildmay line station to get to Mildmay hospital, but the line does go through Mildmay. Not supporting it though, I don't like the name.
I naively thought the "liberty" line was to do with the "liberty of london..." department store 😂
Ditto
Seems like it should be, given the line does not go there, Similar to Mild May. 😊😊
Brits (and Aussies) love abbreviating words, and especially names. In no time these will become: the Windy, The Lion (which nullifies the original intention), the Suffer Line (or Suffering), Mildly, Weavers, and travellers will either say Libline, or they'll take a Liberty.
Great video and I laughed a lot, even more than I usually do at your videos. Greetings from an American living in Stockholm.
The reason the overground isn’t as frequent (except the soon to be windrush line) is because they share tracks with freight. I also think the meanings of the line names will be lost sooner rather than later and in the end they’re just names…
5:44 What was wrong with just calling it the "Watford line"?! It makes the most sense... considering its other side is Euston station... and naming it "Euston line" could potentially confuse some and anger some who want it for their line.
I really can't agree that Jubilee, Victoria and Elizabeth are any less political than any of the new line names.
The notion that tributes to the monarchy are apolitical is, itself, political.
You joke about Harrow and Wealdstone sounding like a Harrow Potter shop, but you do have to go through it to get to the studio where the films were made and you can still see the sets.
Also, for what its worth, the "originally proposed names" were the original names when the lines were built and even the generally used names in most of the paperwork under TFL.
Although the £6 million included the rebranding of all the signs and maps.
As much as I understand, and to some extent agree with, the grievances about the new names. I find it irritating people keep saying things like "£6mln for *this*!?" like the cost of it has anything to do with the actual naming of it, most of the money will have gone to the commissioning of new signage and announcements for the entirety of london's enormous transport network.
The extra annoying thing about the name of the Lioness Line is that they named it that because it stops at North Wembley, the one Wembley station that’s nowhere near the stadium.
I know I’m 9 months late, but Wembley Central is also on the Lioness line.
2:10 Actually, I believe parts of the Harry Potter movies were shot at Harrow school! (The private school!) Also, that same Overground line goes on to Watford... where the Harry Potter Warner Bro. Studio Tour is! So, it is quite likely a tourist would wander there! 🤓
I want a meme template that has a picture of Evan saying “Gotta hit that quota!”
I rather like The North London Line, a name which existed for decades way back to steam trains. For a while it was Silverlink which was stupid, especially as the trains were blue and the District Line, with which it shared track between Richmond and Gunnersbury, had silver trains. Plenty of tourists at Kew Gardens got that one wrong
One of the arguments I've heard for not using this name is to avoid confusion with the Northern Line. Which... actually makes a lot of sense. Especially for non-locals.
I predict many a joke about “Riding the Suffragette all the way”
Tbh I don't care what the lines are called.
For someone that uses the Overground a lot, I find it very convenient to get from South London to the rest of London across the Thames.
There's a lack of Underground in the South so the Overground makes up for it.
I worked at a school in brixton that has the effra river under it. School used to be closed when it rained really hard because the river overflowed and would flood the ground floor .
Couldn't tell in the ad which part was read or not as you were faced directly to camera. Whereas during thw vid i did note a point a 2 but i was like you're just reading your notes. Basically it wasn't distracting or anythung, it flowed naturally
Evan, yes, yes, yes! Agree with everything you said. In my view they should have gone with:- East London Line, Goblin Line, Emerson Park Line, North London Line and Harlequin Line (a portmanteau from Harrow, London Euston)
The suffragette line had me going "I'm gonna be on the sufferin' today" haha
As an American who lived in France and visited England and am back in the USA and follow British politics I find your channel quite delightful. Bravo, sir! Carry on, lad! 🇬🇧
Saw the thumbnail and was about to come in bout to defend my local liberty line but to say it’s not the worst is so true😂😂
It's called the Liberty line, because the shopping centre in Romford is called The Liberty.
At one point during the video I figured out that you were using a teleprompter, for the most part it wasn't noticeable though
Great video as always!
My favourite is the Pickled Willy Line (Piccadilly)
The Liberty Line holds a connection to Havering’s history. The region once served as a royal manor and ancient liberty. The manor's long-standing possession by the Crown from the 11th to the 19th centuries, along with its role as the site of Havering Palace during the 13th to the late 17th century, underscores the area's deep-rooted ties to regal heritage. This is equally reflected in other local names, e.g. The Liberty Shopping Centre in Romford town, or The Royal Liberty School.
Still a rubbish name for a train line tbh. Although I do like the idea of hopping off the Libby, onto the Lizzy.
Just as a reminder that you forgot to add the Timestamp chapter for the Suffragette Line here at: 11:06
That particular woman wasn't a Suffragette. She was a Suffragist. Totally different.
Liberty... Liber Tea... Libre Tea... maybe more appropriate for a train line in Boston, MA? 😁
Most of the London Underground is on the surface. 🤔
This somehow makes me glad that in Germany they just number the lines. Doesn't matter if subway or bus or tram. They are simply numbered xD
Btw: Love the colour of your brown shirt :3
The “north London line” was always called that from long before they came up with the idea of the “overground.” It’s at least 60 years old by my recollection.
Hi. First, I wanted to say that I truly enjoy your videos. Thanks for all that you do. I hope to visit England for the first time next year.
I'm from Chicago, and I'm so glad that they changed the "L" train and subway lines from names to colors back in 1993. Makes it so much easier to navigate.
Locals will probably continue to call it the Goblin line. Here the Franklin Mills Mall was renamed to the Philadelphia Mills Mall like 10 years ago... and I and everyone else I know still call it Franklin Mills.
For some reason this line from Pink Floyd came to mind when watching this. - "Hanging on in quiet desperation
Is the English way".
I love every usage in context is "sorry, I'm late...is running late" 😄
9:10 His name was "Isambard Kingdom Brunel", not Mark, btw...
Should have named one of the other station "Maid" then we would have had a Goblin Teas Maid!
I feel like a random name generator could come up with a better name than most of the names they used
If only you knew the awfulness of public transport in some places in England that are not London (or Manchester, Birmingham or any of the large cities) you'd care less about the names and be thankful for a terrific public transport service that works... I'd be happy if our half hourly bus turned up on time and didn't break down.. what's worse, the two buses follow slightly different routes so actually there is often an hour between the bus that takes you directly where you want to go.😢
As a tourist from the US, I ended up in Stoke Newington on the “Weaver” line (Lea Valley lines Enfield Town / Cheshunt branches) of the Overground for the best dosas and parathas of my life, so there’s that.
As the world-renowned internet sensation Jago Hazzard said, the suffragette will just be called the suffering line whenever there’s a delay. This is inevitable and you cannot prevent it.
Also “I’m riding the suffragette” sounds a bit strange…
To your question at the end, your glances down to your right would suggest to me that it was the first half of the advert you were reading. That could of course be a tic you have, and it was the second half when you had to concentrate on looking ahead at the teleprompter to read it. (Clever way to get us to stick around for the ad though, I hope they appreciate it!)
Unpopular opinion, I like the names. As someone living near Brockley (on the new Windrush Line) I much prefer "Windrush" to "Brunel" or "Old East London" (which I've never heard anyone call it)
2:40 ‘Gospel Oak to Barking line’ line would be a worse crime than ‘Battersea Power Station’ station!
They missed a mark with the Suffragette Line... it would have sounded so much better as the Emmeline Line
As a non Londoner, it makes me chuckle people care so much about the names, I thought most of them were pretty neat! But, I also say them or see them absolutely never
The difference I find with the Jubilee and Elizabeth line names are those two aspects of the country distinctly stem from British roots and culture. We shouldn't be opposed to politics, but only politics that doesn't represent our overall culture.
The same can't be said for most of these new line names, most of which stem from events that are either virtuous hot topics among politicans or celebrated artifically but not naturally by the British public.
There was more thought behind the Goblin line than all of these lines put together.
0:35 more of the underground is actualy above ground, the actual number is about 58% depending on what u count as undegroudn