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This isn't sarcasm. They genuinely are saying that. But it's BECAUSE they are saying that you know your JP is noticeably bizarre. If you were 100% fluent, they would say, "How long have you lived here for?" or something. But it's only a sarcastic compliment coming from one JP foreigner to another, really.
@@aw2031zap No, 会話が少しでも気まずくなったら、ハーフやペラペラな人に対しても「それにしても日本語が上手ですね」とか皮肉めいた言い方をする日本人よく見かけます。 言語能力は関係ないw Nah, if you ever get into some sort of awkward conversation because of social anxiety and are half or fluent, you’ll get “well anyhow, you’re Japanese is good” as they run away from you or try to change the subject. Doesn’t matter how fluent you are. Yes, sometimes you will get asked how long have you lived here for, but if you aren’t Asian some people will take a while to process that you’re speaking Japanese, they judge on appearance way more than most people think. Only more open minded Japanese people would ask how long you’ve been in Japan. A lot are xenophobic still.
I hadn't really thought about it before, but looking at your examples of Japanese sarcasm here, one of the other things I notice is that a lot of Japanese sarcasm is in some ways more subtle, because in English, sarcasm is quite often someone simply saying the direct opposite of what they mean, but in Japanese I think is is much less common for someone to say the opposite of what they mean, but instead sarcasm more commonly takes the form of exaggerating something or saying something in a different manner than would be expected (such as talking about a bad thing using words that are usually only used for good things, etc).
imo they're just them same, they just feel different because the intonation cannot be translated. The feel, tone of the dialogue, how it is spoken cannot be directly conveyed because the audio is in another language. The only thing that translation can provide is text (subtitles). And from there the audience can understand the message but cannot deduct the nuance of the feel.
@@furiifouru Except that sarcasm (in both English and Japanese) is quite often not spoken, but only written, and everybody still understands that it's sarcasm, even when reading it in a book, etc, and not listening to it, so intonation obviously can't be the only factor involved. And really, the whole point of this video is that there are many phrases or constructions which English speakers would consider to be obviously sarcastic, which Japanese speakers would not view that way at all, no matter what the intonation was (there is just no way to say them which would reliably be interpreted that way by most people).
I'd say it is the opposite: in English (or any European language) it's more HOW you say something that makes it sarcastic, while in japanese there are more trigger words, let's say.
Thanks for this, I've always been curious about this, and found it difficult to believe there's really no sarcasm when I encounted sarcastic remarks in, say, localized Japanese video games, all the time. And one thing I always heard as a reason, was the standard "Japanese people are polite" thing, and so would just see English-style sarcasm as mean-spirited. But there are lots of times sarcasm isn't really directed at anyone. Such as the Back to the Future example provided, or to say "lovely weather" on a cold, wet day. So it's interesting that you seem to be saying that these kinds of "aimless" sarcasm don't really work in Japanese, but that the more pointed, mocking kind actually do :P
Yeah, that's what I'm struggling to understand. Like if he just said "かんぺきな天気だね！" why wouldn't that be obvious sarcasm? Maybe it'd just read as confusing, but I'd almost argue in that case for preserving it and expecting the audience to realize "oh, this is an English thing" and to develop an appreciation for it, kind of like including honorifics like "-san" in the English translations of anime. Probably a contentious point, but as an English-speaker with a habit of undirected sarcasm, I feel removing it would detract from the intended experience. I also feel that the Japanese method is actually meaner, whereas I go out of my way to avoid hurting people's feelings with my sarcasm. (I would despise anyone who made comments like the Kyoto stereotypes Yuta mentioned.)
@@ficklebar from my understanding, the Japanese form of sarcasm is much more like trash talk is in English. For example, I've heard that online gaming has lots of sarcastic quips being thrown back and forth in Japanese, rather than just swearing and direct roasts like in English. Still, it's confusing to me that sarcasm is exclusive to that kind of negative context and doesn't work in a more neutral/undirected way.
The main problem with translations from English to Japanese isn’t that they directly translate, it’s that they don’t translate the sarcasm of that moment, preferring neutral translations instead. It’s why, if you watch an American movie as an English speaker in Japan, no one will laugh when you do. In the car scenario, your translation is an example, but it would have to involve the English labels since they’re in English, not Japanese. Something like “those English labels…always looking out for the non-English speakers!” Or “Even the car manufacturers are giving out free English lessons with these buttons.”
That’s not at all what it means. 穴場 has a positive meaning. A good place that is not excessively popular, which makes it even better. It doesn’t mean it’s hidden or impossible to find, and it’s very commonly used in touristic recommendations. It has the connotation of a nice place to go.
@@mattiamele3015 Yeah, that's kind of what "hole in the wall" means, though, I thought. Wiktionary says "Used to refer to an inconspicuous establishment, the term has a connotation that the quality of the food or rendered services deserves recognition."
Your English level is so high, I hope I can be half as good at Japanese. You have mastered English sarcasm and it makes your videos a joy to watch! I have been studying for 3 years now and one of the things I have really come to love is the banter style of Japanese comedy. I will literally be crying over the exquisite verbal jabbing. Sorry to write this in English, but I really have to get back to my studies for the day and I just wanted to write this quickly. Japanese style comedy and sarcasm really appeals to me. I love how wittily and beautifully people will toss out an underhanded comment or compliment. Before I began studying Japanese, I didn't really like to watch English captioned Japanese comedies in either anime or live action form. I don't care for too much slapstick in my comedy, so the dubbed shows imported to the USA definitely didn't appeal to me. I've always been more of a Scifi, Action, Horror type fan. A lot of my favorite stuff is still over my head a bit, because of the complicated and dense themes and ideas in those shows, but I'm working it out everyday bit by bit. I'm currently mining economics and governmental vocab from Log Horizon 💜 But once I could understand some Japanese, I started gravitating toward comedy. And now that's how how I relax when I'm not intensely mining and practicing my output. It was one of the first things I really caught on to because mry own brand of sarcasm has always been a little Japanese even before I knew it. And I love sharpening my listening skills with the fast pace. Now anytime I hear someone say that Japanese people don't get sarcasm and don't use it, I can't help but roll my eyes a bit and argue that Japanese people are actually the supreme masters of sarcasm, but it's not like English sarcasm and doesn't translate well. It's so slick and deadpan. You need a skilled translator to get the same type of feeling across. I hope to be that translator someday by giving it my all. Thank you for your fantastic content! 先生ありがとうございます！
I love how you use anime to show examples. It really helps me to understand, I already watch them and then I have most of the context and it's fun to watch.
One thing I think people tend to forget when learning a foreign language is that sarcasm is actually extremely difficult to convey effectively in a foreign language. Below a certain fluency level, people will tend to "correct" things they perceive as unintentional when listening to a non-native speaker, and often this results in the listener destroying a joke or irony that you meant to convey. In addition to the things you mentioned, I can't help but feel like there is some aspect of this to the perception here.
Thanks for making a second video on this. (not sarcasm) The first time i ever heard someone say Japanese don't understand sarcasm was from Joey(The Anime Man)'s video. Then a week after watching his video, i saw Asta(the MC) of Black Clover obviously being sarcastic while saying すみません to his senpai.
sarcasm Irony employed in the service of mocking or attacking someone is sarcasm. Saying "Oh, you're soooo clever!" with sarcasm means the target is really just a dunderhead, for instance So saying "Icons are only written in Japanese... this is really an international company" sounds more sarcastic than the original comment in English, since the Japanese translation is directly making fun of the company while the English one just created a gap between reality and expectations (of course the entire world doesn't speak English)
I find that the ways people use the words "sarcasm" and "irony" are not always the same with dictionaries' definitions. A lot of "sarcasm" would be "verbal irony" by the dictionary definitions. But that doesn't mean dictionaries are right and people are wrong.
The internet have misused the word irony for so long that people don't know what it is anymore... Irony is more a outhand phenomenon than something people does by choice.
Great videos!! Been following and learning for a while. I was hoping that you could make a comparative video of one conversation between different hierarchy in society. For example if you were invited as a guest to meet the emperor of Japan. I assume that would be the most polite one could be. Then a conversation with the CEO of the company. Then with coworkers. Then with subordinates. Then with family elders Then with close childhood friends. Keep up the great work. 👏
Ok, that lesson is a bit harder to understand, but thanks for clarifying! Those sarcastic scenes from Anime should translate perfectly well into English, but the "President" thing is more than just sarcasm as it requires you to understand the background, similarly to an inside joke. I am used to detecting sarcasm from the tone of voice, so I'm not used to distinguishing between types of sarcasm. If you say "everyone in the world speaks English" or "we're such an international company" I have difficulties understanding why Japanese people understand only the latter as sarcasm if you use a sarcastic tone of voice for both lines. I mean, in all of those Anime scenes the sarcasm was clearly audible from the tone of voice as well.
When Reiner from Attack on Titan was describing what he experienced in Paradise Island to his family back in Marley, that was pretty Japanese sarcasm understood by most of us. 😂
@@danielantony1882 Oh hey it's YOU the guy on the LearnJapanese subreddit who keeps fucking using old english characters. Unless there's more of you guys out there... Which is TERRIFYING if so...
Using one of the best anime (in my opinion , my youth romantic comedy is wrong , as expected ) to illustrate that sarcastic comment exist in japan , that well played. Even if i've seen this one , i've never thought about it . I glad to be able to use sarcasm in japanese , because it's something i like to do . Of course it will need to be ajusted , as expected , but i was just thinking that it was not possible at all (and i wasn't alone as you suggested in the introduction )
I noticed that the examples in this video are extremely subtle in sarcasm. They sound like compliments and easily mixed up if you're not following the conversation. So the victim ends up looking like an idiot. Brilliant.
This was genuinely interesting, with great examples, kept me hooked through out the video until the end even though I was not planning on watching it just yet hah
Keigo can be sarcastic most of the time , 「慇懃無礼」って表現もあるし。 I feel like Japanese people are sarcastic without noticing it sometimes too (it’s deeply ingrained in the hierarchy system). And 「日本語が上手ですね」is sarcastic af!(If said when ignoring what you're actually saying or at times of awkward conversation, even if you're fluent and they want to just change the subject or not talk to you!) 「すごい！」も時として皮肉めいた言い方に聞こえます。 In Japanese, being sarcastic is like being overly polite on purpose.
English relies heavily on changes in tone to emphasize sarcasm, Japanese seemingly does not. I suspect that's where people get the idea that Japanese don't use sarcasm.
2nd comment: Great series of how anime characters speak Japanese. Please do Itsuki Nakano from the quintessential quintuplets or any or all the 7 main characters in TQQ. How they speak Japanese I believe is very important to understanding the plot eg the honorifics, the lost in translation stuff (eg when they say things like zurui, hatsukoi, uso, tachi, fukuzatsu Vs taihen, mote etc that are removed from the dub). I compiled a lot of the lost in translation stuff in r/gotoubun Something to consider about Itsuki: The Quintessential Quintuplets' character types are: Ichika - Onee-san / ara ara, Nino - tsundere, miku - kuudere / dandere, Yotsuba - genki Itsuki - ?? - Tsundere like Nino? - Eat-suki? - Imouto? - Someone who speaks keigo to their siblings, to Fuutarou and to Raiha and to everyone basically? Actually, the main thing I learned from Yuta's videos that keigo is basically just desu, masu & their variations. I swear when I learned elementary Japanese in bachelor's (foreign language classes are required in universities in the Philippines) we were never even taught the word keigo. All this time I had no idea Itsuki was the only quint and actually only main character who was talking keigo to EVERYONE. Anyway, I have a theory as to what Itsuki's type is, but you're not gonna like it... ACTUALLY In The Quintessential Quintuplets S01E01: Fuutarou Uesugi uses sarcasm vs Itsuki Nakano. Then Raiha hits Fuutarou. In the manga, Raiha says more than just 'mou'. I think the word for sarcasm is 嫌味. Google translate says: そういう嫌味なところ直した方がいいよ - You better fix that nasty thing そういうsarcasmなところ直した方がいいよ - You should fix that kind of sarcasm My English manga translation says: 'You really need to work on the sarcastic streak, bro.' For more japanese stuff re TQQ, see r/gotoubun r/itsuesugi r/raitsuki etc
keigo (敬語) can be a lot more than just です and ます, but those are specifically teineigo (丁寧語) which mostly comprise of です and ます along with a few other things which make a sentence "polite language" 敬語 includes 尊敬語 and kenjougo (謙譲語) which are much more complicated than just 丁寧語, which is why so many younger Japanese people don't even know it that well
@@UzumakiHarutoJP uhuh thanks so keigo except teineigo and kenjougo is just desu & masu? anyway what's your opinion of my r/itsuesugi theory? it's itsuki x uesugi but a different uesugi
@@nicbentulan Not quite. 丁寧語 is mostly -です and -ます form, but it also includes おー and ごー prefixes. Then there's 尊敬語 which is honorific language designed to show respect to the subject of the sentence. For example, 教える is the dictionary form of the verb 'to teach/to tell'. In 尊敬語 form it's お教えになる. Or the dictionary form of the verb 'to read', 読む, becomes お読みになる. More to the point, the sentence structure is reformed so that the listener is the subject of the sentence rather than the speaker, because it confers more respect to the person listening. It's also pretty rare to see it in plain form like that because it would kind of defeat the purpose of using 尊敬語, so you'd actually see it written more often as something like 「お読みになりますか。」 for example. Then there's also 謙譲語, which is used to confer respect to the grammatical object of the sentence. I couldn't really think of an excellent example on short notice, here's what I came up with: Plain form: 助けられることがあれば、教えてね 丁寧語 form: 助けられることがあれば、教えてください 謙譲語 form: お手伝いできることがございましたら、どうかお申し付けくださいませ As you can see, the verb for 'to tell' has changed from 「教える」to 「申しつける」because it's more polite and humble that way. All of that to say that there are several levels of polite speech depending on your situation, but for a newer learner, it's probably safe to memorize the rules around 丁寧語 at a minimum because most Japanese people won't expect you to have too much deeper a grasp on the Japanese language than that. Oh, and as a disclaimer, I'm not Japanese and I'm not confident in my explanation (or even really my understanding) of these concepts, so please don't use this as learning material. If you're interested in getting more familiar with 敬語 I'd try to find lessons from someone who REALLY knows what they're talking about. EDIT: Oh, and to address your supposition: 嫌味 is a word that means disagreeableness, unpleasantness, nastiness, offensiveness, tastelessness, etc. It can mean a sarcastic comment, but I think it's carries a more negative connotation than that, personally. I think the closest words to 'sarcasm' are 風刺, meaning 'satire, irony, sarcasm' or 皮肉, meaning 'cynicism, satire, irony, sarcasm'. I recommend checking Jisho when you're curious about specific words and their translations, it's generally a pretty good tool.
yuta I'll learn japanese from you and progress my level in English because I'm not English speaker hhhhhhh my goal in the summer holidays is to memorise the holy Qu'ran (Our islamic book) and learning frensh and japanese luv u from Algeria ✨🥹🫀
When I watched any anime and heard "Sasuga" especially when it's subbed, there's something grating about it being used literally as a compliment (though it's a cultural thing I understand, as an Asian-American myself) because you're expecting someone to be something and immense pressure yada yada but there's something hilarious about that subtlety/sarcasm that makes it translatable universally, expecting the dumbness to bloom out of someone in a backhanded way - and also without the backhanded aspect lol.
The thing is that Japanese don't say these honestly. They say it because their tatemae dictates them to keep the polite facade and play dog in front of the opponent. It's just a type of aizuchi, a signal to tell the opponent that you're still listening to his boring ass story. Its the same exaggeration like when you see a somewhat funny meme and respond with OMG LOL but in reality you've just slightly blown some air out of your nose instead of laughing out loud. They tell you sugoi but in their head it's like "yeah yeah, whatever". If you watch any Japanese show on TV the audience will react with "HEEEEEEEEEH???!" at any time someone opens their mouth, as if they've just had their minds blown by realizing all the secrets of the universe. It's one of the many side effects of living under a constant peer pressure in a collectivistic society with vertical hierarchy. They're are basically pressured into reacting with these different phrases otherwise it will make the opponent uncomfortable (iwakan). Japanese people are so used to thinking "come one, praise me! praise me more because I'm so incredible!" every time they start telling something. The baby opened it's mouth to receive food? - "SUGOOOIII! JOUZU!" Picked up a sushi with chopsticks? "HEEEEEEEEEH???!" at 80dB, "OHASHI JOUZU!". Talento on TV is shown walking the streets and stumbles upon a regular drug store on their way - "HEEEEEAeeeee, sugoi.." So take any praise from a Japanese person with a huge truck of salt. They're just playing along on auto-pilot and there's no weight to their responses. Treat it like "the weather is nice today" filler.
That's different, Japanese has the concept of public face and honest thoughts, it's typically rude to be honest unless specifically asked for a direct and honest answer. Their form of politeness relies on indirect speech, and as far as I know, they don't have anyway to be direct yet polite like with English.
I think sarcasm works just as well in Japanese as in English, maybe even more so. Sarcasm is contextual, and Japanese is contextual; so if the truth of something is obvious but you say the opposite of the obvious fact, it should be clear that its sarcasm. Not sure about Japanese but in written English, people are more likely to assume ignorance than sarcasm
It's important to understand this. I am a very sarcastic person. When I was younger, colleagues at work thought I was racist lol, because I would frequently use sarcasm + stereotypes in conjunction. They would completely get my meaning backwards. (My colleagues were non-native English speakers or were from India and even though they were quite fluent/Americanized, not entirely). Sarcasm is really dangerous. We use it very flippantly in English sometimes. I think it's incredibly bad as a communication style outside of amusing people that are very fluent. You're just inviting serious misunderstanding. Japanese sarcasm seems really passive aggressive and less playful than English sarcasm, at least to me. My take away is to...just not use sarcasm ever, lol. And also, I feel like it's dangerous in general to use language you don't 100% understand. I'm glad I've been cautious since I started leaning JP, because when I was last in Japan, I was tempted to use "jyama" (邪魔）but it can be really rude to use this word unless you're using it humbly to refer to yourself? So I'm glad I never tried to ever use it while I was there. There's enough bad gaijin stereotypes out there.
@@aw2031zap even as english natives i don't think we'll ever 100% fully understand our language but it's the mistakes we made in the past that got us to our level now so might as well make mistakes to learn in japanese too if you wanna be fluent
@@aw2031zap "My take away is to...just not use sarcasm ever, lol." As a British person sarcasm is our way of life and you can drag it from our cold dead hands. Sarcasm is everything.
Yep, Britain without sarcasm is too unthinkable, as a lot of our humour comes from sarcasm and it has the ability to put people in their place. You just have to know when and how to use it. Sarcasm mixed with racial stereotypes is a very bold move and I would only ever use that amongst really close friends, as they would know I was joking.
It seems that German sarcasm and Japanese sarcasm are very similar. The use of irony and/or oxymorons is one part, but the „secret sauce” is the dry delivery. If you tune out for one second, you will miss it.
It appears Japanese people only use sarcasm if they really have ill intentions or are upset? Like this Kyoto stereotype you mentioned. I always thought people from Kyoto would actually be pissed when they hide their anger behind sarcasm, whereas English speakers usually just want to make a funny remark when they are sarcastic. Also from my experience "English" sarcasm still works with Japanese if you get to know each other better. If you're a stranger Japanese will often try not to think ill of you and are polite because they don't know if your remark was (positively) sarcastic or you just couldn't express yourself correctly.
Yes, and that underlying criticism basically is the original function of sarcasm, whose ancient Greek origins go back to a "cutting" or "slicing" remark, which is supposed to hurt/smart. In many Asian societies, people *can* be sarcastic, but there's much more of a negative import whenever sarcasm is intended - you fucked up somehow, so the use of sarcasm is to target you so that you won't make that very mistake next time.
This video just reminds me of two minor characters from Initial D games, an older and younger brother who would heckle the players car selections or performance. The older brother was always outright rude, the younger brother always used pseudo sympathetic sarcasm in his remarks. Older Brother: "You're really driving THAT!?" Younger Brother "Hey, go easy on him, he really seems to like it" It could work in English but only with exaggeration on how it's said, and the younger brother in question, never delivers his sarcastic remarks in a sarcastic tone.
Some other examples of sarcasm I personally found: from an anime, 「知るか」 which is apparently a simple rhetorical question form that can mean "like I know" or "as if I know", and I think it could be translated literally as "so I know..." or "I know, huh" I texted a long paragraph in Japanese and one of my friends replied to it with: 「とりあえず縦読みでOK？」 which was probably a sarcastic and slightly rude way of saying my paragraph was so long it could be read vertically instead of horizontally... 4:46 I made up a word once when one of my friends woke up late 「遅よう御座います」 and to my surprise, it was already a 造語 that is often used in a similar way to the sentence you mentioned
@@JustPeasu it can also be translated that way too depending on the context, but in the anime I saw it in, I think the more important meaning was that the character obviously didn't know about something that he was asked, of course, with the nuance of not caring
Japanese: Your joke isn't funny. English: My joke isn't funny because Japanese people don't know what sarcasm is. Yuta: Here, I’ll introduce some examples of Japanese sarcasm. English: Japanese jokes aren't funny.
From what little I saw of traditional manzai comedy, I found it loaded with sarcasm. And, of course, Oregairu. The MC is a top-shelf cynic. And they all have sass to spare. Who said Japanese didn't do sarcasm? They must be quite the linguistic authorities!
maybe you dont understand what they mean. but sarcasm in US is very confusing. people are expecting for the other to understand that confusing way of talking. you cant apply that to japanese because japanese is already confusing from the start because one sentence mostly can be used for more than one meaning. if you add US way of sarcasm in japan, japanese is going to be broken lol
From this video, I understand that directly translating English sarcasm into Japanese does not work. My question now is what the fundamental change you need to make is? Are there any specific rules of thumb?
I never thought of japanese people as people who dont use sarcasm... on the contrary, it's not uncommon that I come across clear sarcasm/pointing out the irony. I would say people who think there is no sarcasm that fits with native japanese speech are absolute beginners. Hell, I'd argue there are more tools, or at least more effective ones, in Japanese than in English to express sarcasm.
I was listening to a (Japanese) kinda punk song and it took me YEARS to understand that they were being kinda sarcastic and snotty. I mean of course! Punk is punk! Duh lol. The Kyoto sarcasm is what I would call a "backhanded compliment" Southern ladies in the US do that and it's how I learned to be mean but feminine too.
I was always confused when people warn me "DON'T USE SARCASM IN JAPAN! THEY DON'T GET IT!" because there are so many shows, manga, and light novels like OreGairu, KONOSUBA, 治癒魔法の間違った使い方, 生徒会役員共, 月が導く異世界道中, 乙女ゲー世界はモブに厳しい世界です, クラスで2番目に可愛い女の子と友だちになった, 月刊少女野崎くん, 転生して田舎でスローライフをおくりたい , ヲタクに恋は難しい, and so many more that seem to be completely based around a very sarcastic sense of humor (and they are hilarious for it) but if what they really mean is "Thinking in English and making jokes in Japanese doesn't often work" then... yes... that makes a lot more sense...
@@furiifouru It's really useful for studying too. Innuendos are notoriously hard to find information on but notoriously easy to say by accident when learning a new language, so it's helpful to know in advance "Maybe... don't word it that way" :P
Sarcasm obviously exists in EVERY language. However, I think it'd be silly to deny that Japanese people use it waaaay less than... well, anyone that nativetely speaks a European language. PS: after many interactions with Japanese people IN SPAIN, I came to accept that most people in Japan do in fact believe everyone (but then, of course) speaks English.
English sarcasm is unique to English. You shouldn’t feel inferior because Japanese doesn’t have it. All the examples you show are just characters being more or less malicious on a very basic level. It’s different from what people mean by sarcasm in English, which can be brilliant if used properly and in the right context. “Erai” is not even an instance of praising.to-say-the opposite because it doesn’t always have the meaning of “great” but it can be used disparagingly and it’s a fixed use of this adjective; and “erasou” is used when describing someone who is overconfident. Not even other European languages can always convey English sarcasm, because they have their own ways, a different humor etc. So why is Japanese even supposed to have something like that? I don’t understand this kind of defensive, passive-aggressive stance as in “do you think we’re stupid that we don’t have sarcasm?” (Provides a series of anime examples).
Learn Japanese with Yuta: bit.ly/41x1x3t
Challenge: Take a shot every time Yuta says: "I will teach you the kind of Japanese that real life Japanese people today actually speak"
Even a Slav like me wouldn't stand a chance.
Well, it's his salesman tagline.
日本語上手ですね is probably still one of the classics
LMAO
I don't think that is sarcasm though, rather encouragment, at least most of the time.
Yeah the problem is many times it isn't since Japanese people love it when you say good stuff about Japan or go out of your way to make a effort.
This isn't sarcasm. They genuinely are saying that. But it's BECAUSE they are saying that you know your JP is noticeably bizarre. If you were 100% fluent, they would say, "How long have you lived here for?" or something. But it's only a sarcastic compliment coming from one JP foreigner to another, really.
@@aw2031zap No, 会話が少しでも気まずくなったら、ハーフやペラペラな人に対しても「それにしても日本語が上手ですね」とか皮肉めいた言い方をする日本人よく見かけます。
言語能力は関係ないw
Nah, if you ever get into some sort of awkward conversation because of social anxiety and are half or fluent, you’ll get “well anyhow, you’re Japanese is good” as they run away from you or try to change the subject. Doesn’t matter how fluent you are. Yes, sometimes you will get asked how long have you lived here for, but if you aren’t Asian some people will take a while to process that you’re speaking Japanese, they judge on appearance way more than most people think.
Only more open minded Japanese people would ask how long you’ve been in Japan.
A lot are xenophobic still.
I've been roasted by japanese people in comments more often than i'd like to admit🤣😭💀
I hadn't really thought about it before, but looking at your examples of Japanese sarcasm here, one of the other things I notice is that a lot of Japanese sarcasm is in some ways more subtle, because in English, sarcasm is quite often someone simply saying the direct opposite of what they mean, but in Japanese I think is is much less common for someone to say the opposite of what they mean, but instead sarcasm more commonly takes the form of exaggerating something or saying something in a different manner than would be expected (such as talking about a bad thing using words that are usually only used for good things, etc).
You explained it very well! And I swear I'm not sarcastic haha
imo they're just them same, they just feel different because the intonation cannot be translated. The feel, tone of the dialogue, how it is spoken cannot be directly conveyed because the audio is in another language. The only thing that translation can provide is text (subtitles). And from there the audience can understand the message but cannot deduct the nuance of the feel.
@@furiifouru Except that sarcasm (in both English and Japanese) is quite often not spoken, but only written, and everybody still understands that it's sarcasm, even when reading it in a book, etc, and not listening to it, so intonation obviously can't be the only factor involved.
And really, the whole point of this video is that there are many phrases or constructions which English speakers would consider to be obviously sarcastic, which Japanese speakers would not view that way at all, no matter what the intonation was (there is just no way to say them which would reliably be interpreted that way by most people).
I'd say it is the opposite: in English (or any European language) it's more HOW you say something that makes it sarcastic, while in japanese there are more trigger words, let's say.
so, the direct opposite? Just like in English. You're overthinking it
Thanks for this, I've always been curious about this, and found it difficult to believe there's really no sarcasm when I encounted sarcastic remarks in, say, localized Japanese video games, all the time.
And one thing I always heard as a reason, was the standard "Japanese people are polite" thing, and so would just see English-style sarcasm as mean-spirited. But there are lots of times sarcasm isn't really directed at anyone. Such as the Back to the Future example provided, or to say "lovely weather" on a cold, wet day. So it's interesting that you seem to be saying that these kinds of "aimless" sarcasm don't really work in Japanese, but that the more pointed, mocking kind actually do :P
Yeah, that's what I'm struggling to understand. Like if he just said "かんぺきな天気だね！" why wouldn't that be obvious sarcasm? Maybe it'd just read as confusing, but I'd almost argue in that case for preserving it and expecting the audience to realize "oh, this is an English thing" and to develop an appreciation for it, kind of like including honorifics like "-san" in the English translations of anime.
Probably a contentious point, but as an English-speaker with a habit of undirected sarcasm, I feel removing it would detract from the intended experience. I also feel that the Japanese method is actually meaner, whereas I go out of my way to avoid hurting people's feelings with my sarcasm. (I would despise anyone who made comments like the Kyoto stereotypes Yuta mentioned.)
@@ficklebar from my understanding, the Japanese form of sarcasm is much more like trash talk is in English. For example, I've heard that online gaming has lots of sarcastic quips being thrown back and forth in Japanese, rather than just swearing and direct roasts like in English. Still, it's confusing to me that sarcasm is exclusive to that kind of negative context and doesn't work in a more neutral/undirected way.
you can tell someone is 日本語上手 when they say there is no sarcasm in japanese
Usually, I identify sarcasm by the tone. It's very interesting to have it explained to me.
The main problem with translations from English to Japanese isn’t that they directly translate, it’s that they don’t translate the sarcasm of that moment, preferring neutral translations instead. It’s why, if you watch an American movie as an English speaker in Japan, no one will laugh when you do.
In the car scenario, your translation is an example, but it would have to involve the English labels since they’re in English, not Japanese. Something like “those English labels…always looking out for the non-English speakers!” Or “Even the car manufacturers are giving out free English lessons with these buttons.”
I don't think you know how3 subversion works. He used the comment well.
That’s more of a “back handed” compliment though, but yeah I guess.
0:54 Actually, there's an English expression that I feel translates more directly to 穴場; in English, we will call a place "a hole in the wall."
That’s not at all what it means. 穴場 has a positive meaning. A good place that is not excessively popular, which makes it even better. It doesn’t mean it’s hidden or impossible to find, and it’s very commonly used in touristic recommendations. It has the connotation of a nice place to go.
@@mattiamele3015 Yeah, that's kind of what "hole in the wall" means, though, I thought. Wiktionary says "Used to refer to an inconspicuous establishment, the term has a connotation that the quality of the food or rendered services deserves recognition."
Your English level is so high, I hope I can be half as good at Japanese. You have mastered English sarcasm and it makes your videos a joy to watch!
I have been studying for 3 years now and one of the things I have really come to love is the banter style of Japanese comedy. I will literally be crying over the exquisite verbal jabbing.
Sorry to write this in English, but I really have to get back to my studies for the day and I just wanted to write this quickly.
Japanese style comedy and sarcasm really appeals to me. I love how wittily and beautifully people will toss out an underhanded comment or compliment. Before I began studying Japanese, I didn't really like to watch English captioned Japanese comedies in either anime or live action form. I don't care for too much slapstick in my comedy, so the dubbed shows imported to the USA definitely didn't appeal to me. I've always been more of a Scifi, Action, Horror type fan. A lot of my favorite stuff is still over my head a bit, because of the complicated and dense themes and ideas in those shows, but I'm working it out everyday bit by bit. I'm currently mining economics and governmental vocab from Log Horizon 💜
But once I could understand some Japanese, I started gravitating toward comedy. And now that's how how I relax when I'm not intensely mining and practicing my output. It was one of the first things I really caught on to because mry own brand of sarcasm has always been a little Japanese even before I knew it. And I love sharpening my listening skills with the fast pace.
Now anytime I hear someone say that Japanese people don't get sarcasm and don't use it, I can't help but roll my eyes a bit and argue that Japanese people are actually the supreme masters of sarcasm, but it's not like English sarcasm and doesn't translate well. It's so slick and deadpan. You need a skilled translator to get the same type of feeling across. I hope to be that translator someday by giving it my all.
Thank you for your fantastic content!
先生ありがとうございます！
I love how you use anime to show examples. It really helps me to understand, I already watch them and then I have most of the context and it's fun to watch.
One thing I think people tend to forget when learning a foreign language is that sarcasm is actually extremely difficult to convey effectively in a foreign language. Below a certain fluency level, people will tend to "correct" things they perceive as unintentional when listening to a non-native speaker, and often this results in the listener destroying a joke or irony that you meant to convey.
In addition to the things you mentioned, I can't help but feel like there is some aspect of this to the perception here.
Thanks for making a second video on this. (not sarcasm)
The first time i ever heard someone say Japanese don't understand sarcasm was from Joey(The Anime Man)'s video. Then a week after watching his video, i saw Asta(the MC) of Black Clover obviously being sarcastic while saying すみません to his senpai.
Anyone who has watched KonoSuba knows that the Japanese are very much capable of sarcasm.
I get the impression then that the Japanese are more _ironic_ than _sarcastic_, from what you're telling us in the video.
sarcasm
Irony employed in the service of mocking or attacking someone is sarcasm. Saying "Oh, you're soooo clever!" with sarcasm means the target is really just a dunderhead, for instance
So saying "Icons are only written in Japanese... this is really an international company" sounds more sarcastic than the original comment in English, since the Japanese translation is directly making fun of the company while the English one just created a gap between reality and expectations (of course the entire world doesn't speak English)
I find that the ways people use the words "sarcasm" and "irony" are not always the same with dictionaries' definitions. A lot of "sarcasm" would be "verbal irony" by the dictionary definitions. But that doesn't mean dictionaries are right and people are wrong.
@@ThatJapaneseManYuta I was taught that sarcasm *is* verbal irony in my English class
The internet have misused the word irony for so long that people don't know what it is anymore... Irony is more a outhand phenomenon than something people does by choice.
@@arielshatz6876 your teacher and you need to read a diccionary...
Your example of "8" being impressive, was too funny for me, to be pure sarcasm. I'm still laughing. Excellent subject, and presentation!
Cheers Yuta!
Thanks as always ❤❤❤
Great videos!! Been following and learning for a while. I was hoping that you could make a comparative video of one conversation between different hierarchy in society. For example if you were invited as a guest to meet the emperor of Japan. I assume that would be the most polite one could be. Then a conversation with the CEO of the company. Then with coworkers. Then with subordinates. Then with family elders Then with close childhood friends. Keep up the great work. 👏
A famous hidden spot - 😁
Awesome as usual Yuta! Sasuga hitto na video ga dekita!
I never thought I’d see a Jeremy Clarkson clip on Yuta’s channel. Non-overlapping magisteria right there.
Good guide. I'm gonna need this, haha.
Ok, that lesson is a bit harder to understand, but thanks for clarifying!
Those sarcastic scenes from Anime should translate perfectly well into English, but the "President" thing is more than just sarcasm as it requires you to understand the background, similarly to an inside joke.
I am used to detecting sarcasm from the tone of voice, so I'm not used to distinguishing between types of sarcasm. If you say "everyone in the world speaks English" or "we're such an international company" I have difficulties understanding why Japanese people understand only the latter as sarcasm if you use a sarcastic tone of voice for both lines. I mean, in all of those Anime scenes the sarcasm was clearly audible from the tone of voice as well.
Kinda funny how Yuta said "botans" instead of "buttons" at 6:05 because in Japanese, "button" is ボタン "botan".
Thanks man, helps a lot
/s
@@wreagfe lmfao
The title was interesting, so I enjoyed watching it~
Your videos are the most helpful.
When Reiner from Attack on Titan was describing what he experienced in Paradise Island to his family back in Marley, that was pretty Japanese sarcasm understood by most of us. 😂
This was more irony than sarcasm. Sarcasm is made as a joke.
@@edamix3184 In the manga he covered his mouth using his hand to hide the laugh.
@@edamix3184 Sounds like someþing someone would say when ðey don't understand Japanese jokes.
@@danielantony1882 Oh hey it's YOU the guy on the LearnJapanese subreddit who keeps fucking using old english characters. Unless there's more of you guys out there... Which is TERRIFYING if so...
@@danielantony1882 Nah he's right that's irony not sarcasm
As expected of Yuta, another extremely informative and helpful video
Using one of the best anime (in my opinion , my youth romantic comedy is wrong , as expected ) to illustrate that sarcastic comment exist in japan , that well played.
Even if i've seen this one , i've never thought about it . I glad to be able to use sarcasm in japanese , because it's something i like to do . Of course it will need to be ajusted , as expected , but i was just thinking that it was not possible at all (and i wasn't alone as you suggested in the introduction )
I have heard of "warukatta" when making a sarcastic sorry.
I noticed that the examples in this video are extremely subtle in sarcasm.
They sound like compliments and easily mixed up if you're not following the conversation.
So the victim ends up looking like an idiot. Brilliant.
This was genuinely interesting, with great examples, kept me hooked through out the video until the end even though I was not planning on watching it just yet hah
😎 thank you
good video
Thanks Yuta!
Keigo can be sarcastic most of the time , 「慇懃無礼」って表現もあるし。
I feel like Japanese people are sarcastic without noticing it sometimes too (it’s deeply ingrained in the hierarchy system).
And 「日本語が上手ですね」is sarcastic af!(If said when ignoring what you're actually saying or at times of awkward conversation, even if you're fluent and they want to just change the subject or not talk to you!)
「すごい！」も時として皮肉めいた言い方に聞こえます。
In Japanese, being sarcastic is like being overly polite on purpose.
Languages are amazing, and so is this Japanese channel :D
Patalliro mastered sarcasm and puns in a way even British would envy.
English relies heavily on changes in tone to emphasize sarcasm, Japanese seemingly does not. I suspect that's where people get the idea that Japanese don't use sarcasm.
2nd comment: Great series of how anime characters speak Japanese. Please do Itsuki Nakano from the quintessential quintuplets or any or all the 7 main characters in TQQ. How they speak Japanese I believe is very important to understanding the plot eg the honorifics, the lost in translation stuff (eg when they say things like zurui, hatsukoi, uso, tachi, fukuzatsu Vs taihen, mote etc that are removed from the dub). I compiled a lot of the lost in translation stuff in r/gotoubun
Something to consider about Itsuki:
The Quintessential Quintuplets' character types are:
Ichika - Onee-san / ara ara,
Nino - tsundere,
miku - kuudere / dandere,
Yotsuba - genki
Itsuki - ??
- Tsundere like Nino?
- Eat-suki?
- Imouto?
- Someone who speaks keigo to their siblings, to Fuutarou and to Raiha and to everyone basically?
Actually, the main thing I learned from Yuta's videos that keigo is basically just desu, masu & their variations.
I swear when I learned elementary Japanese in bachelor's (foreign language classes are required in universities in the Philippines) we were never even taught the word keigo.
All this time I had no idea Itsuki was the only quint and actually only main character who was talking keigo to EVERYONE.
Anyway, I have a theory as to what Itsuki's type is, but you're not gonna like it...
ACTUALLY
In The Quintessential Quintuplets S01E01: Fuutarou Uesugi uses sarcasm vs Itsuki Nakano. Then Raiha hits Fuutarou. In the manga, Raiha says more than just 'mou'. I think the word for sarcasm is 嫌味. Google translate says:
そういう嫌味なところ直した方がいいよ - You better fix that nasty thing
そういうsarcasmなところ直した方がいいよ - You should fix that kind of sarcasm
My English manga translation says: 'You really need to work on the sarcastic streak, bro.'
For more japanese stuff re TQQ, see r/gotoubun r/itsuesugi r/raitsuki etc
keigo (敬語) can be a lot more than just です and ます, but those are specifically teineigo (丁寧語) which mostly comprise of です and ます along with a few other things which make a sentence "polite language"
敬語 includes 尊敬語 and kenjougo (謙譲語) which are much more complicated than just 丁寧語, which is why so many younger Japanese people don't even know it that well
@@UzumakiHarutoJP uhuh thanks so keigo except teineigo and kenjougo is just desu & masu?
anyway what's your opinion of my r/itsuesugi theory? it's itsuki x uesugi but a different uesugi
@@UzumakiHarutoJP
anyway what's your opinion of my r/itsuesugi theory? it's itsuki x uesugi but a different uesugi
@@nicbentulan Not quite. 丁寧語 is mostly -です and -ます form, but it also includes おー and ごー prefixes. Then there's 尊敬語 which is honorific language designed to show respect to the subject of the sentence. For example, 教える is the dictionary form of the verb 'to teach/to tell'. In 尊敬語 form it's お教えになる. Or the dictionary form of the verb 'to read', 読む, becomes お読みになる. More to the point, the sentence structure is reformed so that the listener is the subject of the sentence rather than the speaker, because it confers more respect to the person listening. It's also pretty rare to see it in plain form like that because it would kind of defeat the purpose of using 尊敬語, so you'd actually see it written more often as something like 「お読みになりますか。」 for example.
Then there's also 謙譲語, which is used to confer respect to the grammatical object of the sentence. I couldn't really think of an excellent example on short notice, here's what I came up with:
Plain form: 助けられることがあれば、教えてね
丁寧語 form: 助けられることがあれば、教えてください
謙譲語 form: お手伝いできることがございましたら、どうかお申し付けくださいませ
As you can see, the verb for 'to tell' has changed from 「教える」to 「申しつける」because it's more polite and humble that way.
All of that to say that there are several levels of polite speech depending on your situation, but for a newer learner, it's probably safe to memorize the rules around 丁寧語 at a minimum because most Japanese people won't expect you to have too much deeper a grasp on the Japanese language than that.
Oh, and as a disclaimer, I'm not Japanese and I'm not confident in my explanation (or even really my understanding) of these concepts, so please don't use this as learning material. If you're interested in getting more familiar with 敬語 I'd try to find lessons from someone who REALLY knows what they're talking about.
EDIT: Oh, and to address your supposition: 嫌味 is a word that means disagreeableness, unpleasantness, nastiness, offensiveness, tastelessness, etc. It can mean a sarcastic comment, but I think it's carries a more negative connotation than that, personally. I think the closest words to 'sarcasm' are 風刺, meaning 'satire, irony, sarcasm' or 皮肉, meaning 'cynicism, satire, irony, sarcasm'. I recommend checking Jisho when you're curious about specific words and their translations, it's generally a pretty good tool.
@@kyuurijo ok thanks re the keigo & re the 嫌味
have you seen TQQ? or at least heard of TQQ?
I think the Kyoto examples are more "left handed compliments" than sarcasm
I guess people don't know that Saiki K exists.
yuta I'll learn japanese from you and progress my level in English because I'm not English speaker hhhhhhh my goal in the summer holidays is to memorise the holy Qu'ran (Our islamic book) and learning frensh and japanese luv u from Algeria ✨🥹🫀
Lesson learned: send someone to Kyoto if they think Japanese people can't be sarcastic.
I think the scene with Michael J Fox saying "perfect" in that situation would have the Japanese translation of 「最悪」.
saekano is a really good anime with lots of sarcastic moments.
Kazuma is a shining example of sarcasm in anime.
Wasn't expecting the Top Gear references, lol.
Lmao me neither, I love this
When I watched any anime and heard "Sasuga" especially when it's subbed, there's something grating about it being used literally as a compliment (though it's a cultural thing I understand, as an Asian-American myself) because you're expecting someone to be something and immense pressure yada yada but there's something hilarious about that subtlety/sarcasm that makes it translatable universally, expecting the dumbness to bloom out of someone in a backhanded way - and also without the backhanded aspect lol.
The thing is that Japanese don't say these honestly. They say it because their tatemae dictates them to keep the polite facade and play dog in front of the opponent. It's just a type of aizuchi, a signal to tell the opponent that you're still listening to his boring ass story. Its the same exaggeration like when you see a somewhat funny meme and respond with OMG LOL but in reality you've just slightly blown some air out of your nose instead of laughing out loud. They tell you sugoi but in their head it's like "yeah yeah, whatever". If you watch any Japanese show on TV the audience will react with "HEEEEEEEEEH???!" at any time someone opens their mouth, as if they've just had their minds blown by realizing all the secrets of the universe. It's one of the many side effects of living under a constant peer pressure in a collectivistic society with vertical hierarchy. They're are basically pressured into reacting with these different phrases otherwise it will make the opponent uncomfortable (iwakan). Japanese people are so used to thinking "come one, praise me! praise me more because I'm so incredible!" every time they start telling something.
The baby opened it's mouth to receive food? - "SUGOOOIII! JOUZU!"
Picked up a sushi with chopsticks?
"HEEEEEEEEEH???!" at 80dB, "OHASHI JOUZU!".
Talento on TV is shown walking the streets and stumbles upon a regular drug store on their way - "HEEEEEAeeeee, sugoi.."
So take any praise from a Japanese person with a huge truck of salt. They're just playing along on auto-pilot and there's no weight to their responses. Treat it like "the weather is nice today" filler.
I knew those examples... as I do use dthe somehow pretty often XD
"Or is she"
DAMMNNNN YUTA
the Top Gear clip made me fly
Japanese sarcasm=underhanded insults? Yeah, I can see that.
Best japanese sarcasm I use when I hear I am „jouzu” is いいえ、挨拶ぐらい話せるよ
Tldr: in order to talk sacrastic in jjapanse; make sarcastic remarks at other's expense. Got it.
I know I’m biased, but from what I’m seeing, English sarcasm is way more fun lol
Yes, it’s the IDEA that needs translation. In any language. Word for word just does not work.
Japanese people are sarcastic every time they tell me my Japanese is good.
That's not sarcasm, that's a compliment smh
That's different, Japanese has the concept of public face and honest thoughts, it's typically rude to be honest unless specifically asked for a direct and honest answer. Their form of politeness relies on indirect speech, and as far as I know, they don't have anyway to be direct yet polite like with English.
it feels very much like southern passive aggressive comments lmao
I think sarcasm works just as well in Japanese as in English, maybe even more so.
Sarcasm is contextual, and Japanese is contextual; so if the truth of something is obvious but you say the opposite of the obvious fact, it should be clear that its sarcasm.
Not sure about Japanese but in written English, people are more likely to assume ignorance than sarcasm
It's important to understand this. I am a very sarcastic person. When I was younger, colleagues at work thought I was racist lol, because I would frequently use sarcasm + stereotypes in conjunction. They would completely get my meaning backwards. (My colleagues were non-native English speakers or were from India and even though they were quite fluent/Americanized, not entirely).
Sarcasm is really dangerous. We use it very flippantly in English sometimes. I think it's incredibly bad as a communication style outside of amusing people that are very fluent. You're just inviting serious misunderstanding.
Japanese sarcasm seems really passive aggressive and less playful than English sarcasm, at least to me.
My take away is to...just not use sarcasm ever, lol.
And also, I feel like it's dangerous in general to use language you don't 100% understand. I'm glad I've been cautious since I started leaning JP, because when I was last in Japan, I was tempted to use "jyama" (邪魔）but it can be really rude to use this word unless you're using it humbly to refer to yourself? So I'm glad I never tried to ever use it while I was there. There's enough bad gaijin stereotypes out there.
@@aw2031zap even as english natives i don't think we'll ever 100% fully understand our language but it's the mistakes we made in the past that got us to our level now so might as well make mistakes to learn in japanese too if you wanna be fluent
@@aw2031zap "My take away is to...just not use sarcasm ever, lol." As a British person sarcasm is our way of life and you can drag it from our cold dead hands. Sarcasm is everything.
Yep, Britain without sarcasm is too unthinkable, as a lot of our humour comes from sarcasm and it has the ability to put people in their place. You just have to know when and how to use it. Sarcasm mixed with racial stereotypes is a very bold move and I would only ever use that amongst really close friends, as they would know I was joking.
I'm in despair!
Foreigners not knowing that sarcasm exists in Japan left me in despair!
03:24 Oregairu! Sasuga Yuta-san!
Just the lesson I need before contronting my arch nemesis in one final mortal battle.
Thank god japanese does have sarcasm. I can't survive if I'm not being sarcastic 24/7.
It seems that German sarcasm and Japanese sarcasm are very similar. The use of irony and/or oxymorons is one part, but the „secret sauce” is the dry delivery. If you tune out for one second, you will miss it.
It appears Japanese people only use sarcasm if they really have ill intentions or are upset? Like this Kyoto stereotype you mentioned. I always thought people from Kyoto would actually be pissed when they hide their anger behind sarcasm, whereas English speakers usually just want to make a funny remark when they are sarcastic.
Also from my experience "English" sarcasm still works with Japanese if you get to know each other better. If you're a stranger Japanese will often try not to think ill of you and are polite because they don't know if your remark was (positively) sarcastic or you just couldn't express yourself correctly.
Yes, and that underlying criticism basically is the original function of sarcasm, whose ancient Greek origins go back to a "cutting" or "slicing" remark, which is supposed to hurt/smart. In many Asian societies, people *can* be sarcastic, but there's much more of a negative import whenever sarcasm is intended - you fucked up somehow, so the use of sarcasm is to target you so that you won't make that very mistake next time.
Me when Oregairu is mentioned: 😯💀☺🙂😆😍🥰
Coming from an american, I think the US is culturally bolder/ruder than others and its hard to convey that familiarity
I wonder if saying something like “you have a good reason” would work as sarcasm in Japanese because I’m making fun of someone’s reasoning
This video just reminds me of two minor characters from Initial D games, an older and younger brother who would heckle the players car selections or performance. The older brother was always outright rude, the younger brother always used pseudo sympathetic sarcasm in his remarks.
Older Brother: "You're really driving THAT!?"
Younger Brother "Hey, go easy on him, he really seems to like it"
It could work in English but only with exaggeration on how it's said, and the younger brother in question, never delivers his sarcastic remarks in a sarcastic tone.
Man people are gonna think I'm messing with them just because I give complements easy lol
No wonder people couldn't tell my intentions when I said people singing with a heavy accent is cute...
1:14
Jeremy: "sometimes my genius... it generates gravity" 😎
You are a Japanese Chad
Some other examples of sarcasm I personally found:
from an anime, 「知るか」 which is apparently a simple rhetorical question form that can mean "like I know" or "as if I know", and I think it could be translated literally as "so I know..." or "I know, huh"
I texted a long paragraph in Japanese and one of my friends replied to it with: 「とりあえず縦読みでOK？」 which was probably a sarcastic and slightly rude way of saying my paragraph was so long it could be read vertically instead of horizontally...
4:46 I made up a word once when one of my friends woke up late 「遅よう御座います」 and to my surprise, it was already a 造語 that is often used in a similar way to the sentence you mentioned
From your description, i think知るか is better translated as "As if I'd know"
In this case you describe, it would be more like: "As if I care/Like I care/Whatever".
@@JustPeasu it can also be translated that way too depending on the context, but in the anime I saw it in, I think the more important meaning was that the character obviously didn't know about something that he was asked, of course, with the nuance of not caring
@@cubing7276 I basically said the same thing
"as if I know" and "as if I'd know" is almost the exact same meaning
Is it more effective to learn without Romaji? I wanted to try and force myself to read without Romaji but my eyes just gravitate to it.
Hey Yuta, from which city are you from?
Japanese: Your joke isn't funny.
English: My joke isn't funny because Japanese people don't know what sarcasm is.
Yuta: Here, I’ll introduce some examples of Japanese sarcasm.
English: Japanese jokes aren't funny.
This is gonna make spotting sarcasm in anime much more interesting.
what is the difference between :
" sasuga Yuta kun da ! "
and :
" mattaku Yuta kun da ! "
?
From what little I saw of traditional manzai comedy, I found it loaded with sarcasm. And, of course, Oregairu. The MC is a top-shelf cynic. And they all have sass to spare. Who said Japanese didn't do sarcasm? They must be quite the linguistic authorities!
You forget the greatest most common sarcasm Japanese people give:
日本語上手！
maybe you dont understand what they mean. but sarcasm in US is very confusing. people are expecting for the other to understand that confusing way of talking. you cant apply that to japanese because japanese is already confusing from the start because one sentence mostly can be used for more than one meaning. if you add US way of sarcasm in japan, japanese is going to be broken lol
From this video, I understand that directly translating English sarcasm into Japanese does not work. My question now is what the fundamental change you need to make is? Are there any specific rules of thumb?
「有名な穴場だ」は皮肉として伝わりにくいねえ。でも逆説的な表現を用いた皮肉自体はある。「小物界の大物」みたいな。「みんな英語話すからな」みたいな皮肉は日本人でもよく使う。
皮肉の内容と表現によるんじゃないかな。文化によって皮肉になりやすい内容・表現とそうでないものがあるってこと。
ただ日本人の場合は皮肉をマイナスに捉える傾向があって仲良くなると皮肉を多用するようになる人は少ないと思う。皮肉をあまり言わない人は素晴らしく、皮肉を沢山言う人は性格が悪いと言う人もいる。
加えて、馴染みの無い皮肉が皮肉だと気付くと拒絶する傾向もあるように見える。京都の人は皮肉を多用するという偏見もそれに関連していて、日本のネットを見てると京都人は性格が悪いと言いふらすテンプレが出回ってますよ。テレビですら流されるありさま。
京言葉に定型的な皮肉の言い回しが多いのは確かだけど京都人の大半は京言葉なんて使えないからね。だけど日本人の多くは京都に観光でしか行ったことがないのでそれが分からない。笑い。観光というのはステレオタイプの発生源ですよ。笑い。
English de ok シ
Almost decided to drop this language if sarcasm doesn't exist in it😢
Nice use of sarcasm at 0:23 ;)
I feel like if you think that there isn't sarcasm in Japanese, then you don't actually understand sarcasm.
or you don't understand japanese
@@UzumakiHarutoJP Yes, this one spot on. It's like puns, you can't translate them
I never thought of japanese people as people who dont use sarcasm... on the contrary, it's not uncommon that I come across clear sarcasm/pointing out the irony. I would say people who think there is no sarcasm that fits with native japanese speech are absolute beginners.
Hell, I'd argue there are more tools, or at least more effective ones, in Japanese than in English to express sarcasm.
I was listening to a (Japanese) kinda punk song and it took me YEARS to understand that they were being kinda sarcastic and snotty. I mean of course! Punk is punk! Duh lol. The Kyoto sarcasm is what I would call a "backhanded compliment" Southern ladies in the US do that and it's how I learned to be mean but feminine too.
I was always confused when people warn me "DON'T USE SARCASM IN JAPAN! THEY DON'T GET IT!" because there are so many shows, manga, and light novels like OreGairu, KONOSUBA, 治癒魔法の間違った使い方, 生徒会役員共, 月が導く異世界道中, 乙女ゲー世界はモブに厳しい世界です, クラスで2番目に可愛い女の子と友だちになった, 月刊少女野崎くん, 転生して田舎でスローライフをおくりたい , ヲタクに恋は難しい, and so many more that seem to be completely based around a very sarcastic sense of humor (and they are hilarious for it) but if what they really mean is "Thinking in English and making jokes in Japanese doesn't often work" then... yes... that makes a lot more sense...
Oh I fucking love 生徒会役員共, that is good comedy
@@furiifouru It's really useful for studying too. Innuendos are notoriously hard to find information on but notoriously easy to say by accident when learning a new language, so it's helpful to know in advance "Maybe... don't word it that way" :P
"Your kids are very energetic" sounds backhanded, not sarcastic 4:10
So Japanese is different from English? へー驚いたぁ
No shit sherlock, 以外だな
Sarcasm obviously exists in EVERY language. However, I think it'd be silly to deny that Japanese people use it waaaay less than... well, anyone that nativetely speaks a European language.
PS: after many interactions with Japanese people IN SPAIN, I came to accept that most people in Japan do in fact believe everyone (but then, of course) speaks English.
Wait.... So when everyone says "your(u) japanese is so good(u)" THEY'RE BEING SARCASTIC? Ooooof
I know if they ask you if you want more tea in Kyoto, it is the sign to GTFO.
So what Im getting is japanese sarcasm revovles around disingenuous complements
English sarcasm is unique to English. You shouldn’t feel inferior because Japanese doesn’t have it. All the examples you show are just characters being more or less malicious on a very basic level. It’s different from what people mean by sarcasm in English, which can be brilliant if used properly and in the right context. “Erai” is not even an instance of praising.to-say-the opposite because it doesn’t always have the meaning of “great” but it can be used disparagingly and it’s a fixed use of this adjective; and “erasou” is used when describing someone who is overconfident. Not even other European languages can always convey English sarcasm, because they have their own ways, a different humor etc. So why is Japanese even supposed to have something like that? I don’t understand this kind of defensive, passive-aggressive stance as in “do you think we’re stupid that we don’t have sarcasm?” (Provides a series of anime examples).
日本語の専門家のかたですか? 貴重なご意見ありがとうございます😊