Pfitzner Performance Gearbox - How to drive a dog box
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- The creator of these world class gear sets Simon Pfitzner, takes you through a few ways to drive a dog engagement gearset in a street application.
Applications Include:
Nissan R32 GT-R
Subaru WRX
Holden Commodore T56
Its quite a simple process, once you know how, you should get years of faithfull service out of your new gear set.
Dog boxes sound to me like a great idea for a street car. Shifts fast when you want it to, you can use the clutch if you'd like, and you don't have to worry about synchros dying.
Don’t they have to be serviced a lot sooner than traditional gear box?
@@neilranson4185 Not sure. I think the oil change interval is shorter though if that's what you mean.
Amazing gearbox, turned a Skyline into a WRX then back into a Skyline!
He did say they were going to drive three different cars....
@@ukracer7593 omg you've won a master in "mister obvious"
For referance, i paid about $6000 (AUS) for the straight cut WRX synchro set. The dogbox set would be around the $8500-$9000 mark. Then add ~$1000 for installation, and a little extra for shipping costs. Made in Adelaide, South Australia. Extremely happy with mine, Pfitzner was always going to be first choice. Good work Simon!
It has a clutch, but if you're driving fast (high in the revs) you can easily shift without clutch, just do a small lift while you're shifting to unload the gearbox.
they are very strong. When you start building your engine to high Hp and making all the parts strong enough to hold that HP in the engine... the transmission becomes the part that will break under hard pulls with HP/Torque.
many race cars use dog box straight cut gears to with stand the punishment they get during a race with a race motor attached.
Tripped out for a second, went from a 32 to Holden hahaha
I'm so happy they make these for nissan gtir. Out of all the little aftermarket support that car has, it actually has dog box options lol. The case is unique to that car I think, and there weren't many made and of the owners out there few are buying dogboxes. So I'm glad ya'll put in the R&D for the few of us who like baby zilla.
First time I heard the clunk, I was thinking, "wow, that must be annoying." By the end of the video I enjoyed the sound! If the tranny in my WRX ever goes and the mileage isn't too high, I think I'll get one of these!
PPG website shows $15,000 dollars for a straight cut gear set?!?!? Really?.....
MrLegacy36 You're looking at the sequential gear set. Their straight cut sets (for the wrx) are $2500 each for 1/2 and 3/4 sets ($5k for 1-4 straight cuts).
like a semi they do not have syncros, you do have to learn what gear the car wants for what speed and rpm. first time I shifted a big rig it wasn't just like jumping in and shifting a 5speed you get a feel for it. some people don't pickup on it so quickly. if you can shift a semi ten speed to 18 speed it's similar. if you lose what gear your in its not always easy to jump right back into a gear.
Straight and helical are the way the gear's teeth are cut. Dog refers to the way the gear engages. Instead of using synchros, the gear just has big, straight 'teeth' that are much easier to engage at high rpm's. Sequential transmissions use dog engagement as well...They just, obviously, shift differently than a standard h-pattern box(think motorcycle)
I want it just for the clunk!
We thought that was the point 😎 cause 🏎
drain your gearbox oil, you'll get the same noises for less money....thank me later
@@laughsandwich3842 less money? Yeah sure lol
@@satyajeetk.r2923 lmao yeah ofc...he will get the noises for free.....FIXING THE NOISES however will be quite expensive...lmao
exactly. one thing I would say is that it is good to hold a bit of pressure on the stick before you lift off the pedal that way you will get good engagement. same as on a bike.
You only use the clutch for taking off, or coming to a complete stop.
You can still use the clutch if you want a more "quieter" shift
Weight is not the only reason that then use straight cuts. Straight cut gears themselves are no stronger or weaker than helicals, the shafts and casing can be lighter because they do not need to be as strong, as you said, there's no thrust loading on straight gears.
@187maker A change in gear set, be it dog, synchro or any other type of engagement shouldn't hold any type of bearing on clutch life... it is the driver and his/her driving style/technique that determines the life of a clutch.
In most cases the most damage to a clutch is when people ride the clutch or dump the clutch at high revs.
helical gears are generally stronger an they increase the contact area of the gears, in straight cuts all the force from the engine when you engage the gearbox is put from the tip if the straight tooth to an area of equal size on the output gear. helical gears twist on so when they make contact its the whole face of the gear touching the whole face of the other gear increasing contact area and distributing the load therebye reducing the chance of breaking teeth.
@marek0086- Nah, straight cut gears only have one tooth touching at a time, helical have 2-3, making helical stronger, the reason people use straight cut is less rolling resistance = less drag through the gearbox, Then the straight cut are made stronger to then be also stronger than helical gears
Most beneficial for turbocharged applications of course.this trans + big turbo= see ya later :)
Blow a few factory built trannys, and you exceed the cost of a ppg gear set. Only way ppg fails is if the case breaks or incorrectly assembled, or poor maintenance. I have never heard of the gears failing for any product defect. DCT are expensive, not available on all cars, and not an option for older cars. Just like 600 hp cars can be comfortable on the street, so are these gears if you understand how they work.
@nicbarrow okay, i'll be nice enough to tell you. A dog box is a gearbox where there are no synchros to synchronise the gear speeds, so you have to match them by yourself. They're much stronger but are usually harder to drive.
This answered so many questions i had for this type of transmission. Do the dogs bark or grind if you shift when you go over bumps?
does PPG mean... powerpuff girls?
Pfitzner Performance Gearbox....
illuminati confirmed
I like how this video sounds like it was all one shot but like every other shot was different there was a guy in the passenger seat for one shot and right in the middle of the talking during the next shot he was gone... wtf that was pretty good.
dog boxes can have helical cut gears, its just theres no synchronizing of any kind which is good for racing because you lift, and shift without the clutch, apparently from this vid you can use it on the street aswell, personally i dont race, the syncros can keep up with my shifting
So what's the supposed "advantage" of these: just that you can fast-shift them like that? And then what would the downfall be? How do they work so fast like that even without using the clutch? What are their synchros like?
The only advantage I can see is a faster gear shift for performance driving or racing and perhaps a more robust/durable gearset when compared to stock. These gearboxes don't have synchros at all; they use dog engagement like a race car. Part of what allows fast shifting in a race car is an engine with low inertia so the revs drop quickly when releasing the throttle when not attached to the engine such as the moment during a shift. This reduces torque spikes during upshifts. As you can see in the video, there are noticeable shudders in the car during shfits; road cars don't normally have a low inertia engine. This can't be good for the other drivetrain components in the long term.
+MaxxFordham A dog-box can fit wider gears since dog rings take less space compared to synchronisers, so these gear themselves are stronger. Plus the faster clutchless shifting as shown. :)
Take out the H pattern and put a fore and aft shift like motorcycles would be awesome.
Craig Buckingham most Box's are like that. Pull back to shift up, and forward to shift down.
You have a 10k Sequential? I'll buy it right now haha $25k US is more like it.
@marek0086 Yea i ment like tooth density equal to helical gears, but then its increased to make spur gears stronger
Do you need to double clutch when blocking shifting? say from 6th to 2nd. Of course with Heel toe or normal rev matching
the clunks are bloody fine.
would love a dog box in my volvo!
@maersklandro
Almost all race cars using sequential manual boxes or newer faster paddle shift, sequential automatic boxes. These g-boxes are not primary developed for daily driving. Also every reverse gear in all street cars are straight cut.
...and cost. Straight cut gears will be cheaper to cut and dog boxes have no synchroniser rings so there's a lower part count and no angled faces to machine. A lot of bike gearboxes also use some of the gears themselves as the shift rings.
Fuck me hahaha, the two story house across the street is across from me. Crazy how you find this shit.
Ive had the pleasure of driving a 240sx with a dog box. Other than a dull thud when shifting normally, wich the normal trans in my car dose anyway, it's just like stock and seems durable to me, 46k and didn't act any different than the day it was put in.
Helicals are stronger than straight cut, because at the same pitch (which measured at along the helical angle) they have thicker cross section (measured along the force direction) than straight cut. Why they aren't used in motorsports is, besides the axial loading issue, the slightly lower efficiency than straight cut gears. The chevron gears were developed to obtain the benefits of the stronger structure without the axial load problem.
"Straight-cut" gears are A.K.A. spur gears. Why do so many people forget that the real name for straight-cut (
MaxxFordham because whenever someone goes on about how much stronger spur gears are compared to helical, you need to use very basic vocabulary and simple sentences. Try saying involute gear and receive a barrage about how much stronger straight cuts are. So you start avoiding terms that actually require any knowledge on the matter.
Okay, well then why don't you say "curve-toothed gears" instead of the big technical term "helical gears"? Same simplification, but on the other side, right?
Because we still talk about things with their real names. "Spur gear" is an industry short hand, jargon, for a straight-cut gear, not the official name; indeed an AKA. Both straight and helical have the same descriptiveness, while a curved tooth gear would evoke spiral bevel or hypoid gears.
If "spur gear" is supposedly an "industry short-hand," then why isn't "helical gear" the short-hand for that one?
And if "curved-cut gear" isn't the technical term for helical gears and "helical gear" isn't the shorthand for that one, then why is "straight-cut gear" the supposed "technical term" and "spur gear" the supposed "shorthand" for that one?
Oh dude, you installed the steering wheel on the wrong side.
lol
+Thomas R aus B It's on the right side.
Thomas R aus B r32 gtr never made a factory lhd ..they are all rhd
Thomas R aus B
It's on the right side... which is also the correct side.
Oh man, the average youtube ignorant expecting a skyline to be lhd.
Best part at 2:55 "slick as"
Why do you have to select the highest gear before downshifting?
@@technicalthug "Why"
Do you do one for an VW 6 speed 02M?
have a PPG dogbox in my 99 WRX, freaking awesome!
I'm sure you've heard the whine when you reverse a car right? that is because reverse is a straight cut gear. except with a dog box the forward gears are straight cut, this allows a gearbox to be able to reliably take the loads of a high performance engine through the driveline. of course in a nutshell...
Lenco's are for drag racing.
Dog boxes are track oriented.
Ssodemann001, apparently not, because that's what the Simon just demonstrated in his video here (except for shifting into your take-off gear, of course).
@marek0086 Nope, not a type of bread.
I've not heard about helical gears wearing out faster though I'm fairly sure helical gears have a higher surface contact area. This would explain why one of the other advantages of straight cut is lower power loss through the transmission - less gear contact swipe area (in addition to lower rotating mass that allows quicker rotational speed change). With proper lube neither should wear gears faster than the other.
wow my ppg just arrived cant wait to drive it
PPG Gearsets
the best for sure
Simon Fister
Wet Towelette tehe
so you only need the clutch when you're starting in first gear?
Yes
How come its so quiet? Is it helical gears?
It's because his car still has sound inuslation unlike a race car that has all the interior stripped out.
@@F0X_H0UND No its because they are helical gears
@@brentlewis8537 You can still hear a bit of whine though, so maybe they're an aggressive cut like 15 degrees.
Wow dog boxes look like fun!
helical gears are 33% stronger because there is a larger friction surface in between the teeth maintaining contact
why do ppl say these are so hard to drive? this video suggests no more effort goes into shifting a ppg than a regular synchro box .... gear slips in no problem whether he goes up or down doing so at whatever speed. has this myth developed from ppl that have never sat in a car with a dog box let alone driven one?
+Daniel Laiman Or just people who outright suck at driving and their ego was too big to admit it so they blamed it on the car.
@@buca9696 I think like a semi they do not have syncros, you do have to learn what gear the car wants for what speed and rpm first time I shifted a big rig it wasn't just like jumping in and shifting a 5speed you get a feel for it. some people don't pickup on it so quickly.
I drove one yesterday and is not that easy at first. All gears where like...arrggg...arrggg... Not easy at first.
@@sepupr21 How long did it take to get used to it? What difference in technique did you use to adapt? Double clutching? Rev-matching?
@@curiousobserver8778 took like 5 drives to get good at it. Still downshifting is not that perfect for some reason.
It seems it likes low RPMs or really high RPMs, nothing on the middle. At least my HKS does.
Wish they showed his foot on the clutch because it's hard to see if and how he's using it.
FWIW, the gearset for a Honda K-series, is about US$4000 installed.
What's with the unnecessary quote marks around "NOT" up there? Ya mean they sort-of can be recommended, but so many people say they're not that you're just following what those people say even if you don't really believe them?
This is all sorts of satisfying.
Julian G, a "helical's"... *what*... are not stronger...? (What thing or things belonging to a helical [gear] did you mean to be referring to?)
this is the same principle as a roadranger gearbox in a truck....they have sliding clutches...tough as 'box too.......some guys think 5 or 6 gears is a lot....try driving something with 18 and not using the clutch to change up AND down!!!!!
cheers
for the Subaru Sti 6 speed can handle much more power granted its a bit heavier, but a lot cheaper and more stronger with less complication
well no. but youd have to shift forcefully and rev match every downshift all the time. theoretically you could do it but there would be no more slow shifting or downshifting without using your heel on the gas.
what makes a transmission a 'dogbox' trans?
The Engagement of gears is done with "Dogs' instead of conventional gearboxes.
Please use google.. look for motorcycle gearboxes if you wish
zwebx Please don't fucking comment if you're going to bitch and be useless.
Pretty sure thats what you are doing fella.
Not at all. Learn the difference between the two.
learn to keep your mouth shut.
It said "Short/Speed shifter" is not recommended for the street with one of these boxes. Hell, i'd never recommend a typical "short' shifter anyway. That's literally all it is, a shorter stick for the shifter. A very few actually shorten the throw itself, and are usually the same/close height as stock, but are quite pricey. Theres nothing wrong installing one in a daily, It may need a rebuild sooner than a stock trans on the street, but if you beat the stock one anyway, it'll live shorter too.
This looks very streetable
In the video they show how you can use it for everyday driving, but they have a caption saying its not recommended...... is there anything wrong with installing it in a car that you use as your everyday car but might occasionally take to the track?
but dog boxes are forged i believe? or made from stronger alloys, so the can handle the same if not more abuse than helical gears
hi what gearbox oil do you recommend ?
@nisantiskyline he showed 3, a holden, skyline and suubby
I am from germany and do not understand his slang clearly...now can anyone say me, do i need the clutch for up and downshifting or not? When I hear right i can do what i want, upshift and downshift only with a little lifting the rev-foot with the same shifting on the lever...is this right? Have buy a PPG Dogbox and not want to damage it!
@Gonthor1000 the sequential box is actually first called in the racing area as a dog box,,here i dont know why is called a dog box,if i can see the normal movement
whats the difference whats the gain? whats the improvement? you dont pedal clutch?
@marek0086 The straight gears result in a stronger transmission, but the gears are not any stronger - the difference is that straight gears only result in radial stresses, where helical gears develop axial stresses as well which require bearings to handle "thrust" loading. Helical cut gears would be stronger than straight cut gears of the same width as more than just one tooth will be transferring the torque.
Get out of the way, guy crossing the street!
Chris Sautter lol I thought he was about to get run the fuck over
Zero shits given 😂
So when you shift using a dog box do you need to use the clutch every gear change or just taking off?
Boosted Integra you can just use clutch for when u start to move, just know if your going to clutchless shift, it’s wearing the trans more than using the clutch
@@TechFeedMe If you drive it right it won't wear that fast.
this look like so much fun driving this!!!
@serchmarc I think your talking about a "sequential" gearbox
Any plans on gears for the TR6070?
That's a very good video, well done.
I put a PPG T56 iin my circuit race car and it is AWESOME!
Thats awesome! Love your GTR. Great tutorial
@serchmarc incorrect a dog box was originally used in trucks where they didnt have clutches... due to the fact that if you fucked up it woudl drive like a dog xD
Very informative, thank you
so how much nm are reliable for a dog Trans for a 2.0? already destroyed 3 m32 Vauxhall gearboxes
i saw someone in a vid with an evo 9, who didnt use the clutch with a dog box??? why is that?
You have no idea how much I wanted this GTR. Saw it for sale on carsales about 20
Mins from my place. SO annoyed I didn't have a spare 20k :( Wanted a clean black one with white rims and a dogbox.... Yeah... -/3
do these come in H-pattern and do you have to ingage the clutch in order to shift im completely new to this
My PPG trans don’t shift that smooth:/
if in slow driving mode...is it still clutchless? very interested in this... in your video u change ur gear like normal,i saw in another video to up shift is just pull and down shift just push upward....i believe it's straight cut...is it?
Is it possible to have a custom made one from the cie? Love them but they need a tweak or 2 for me for the Subaru!
@whoadudeification you are incorrect. Helical gears are weaker because there is less surface area in "mesh at any point in time. This is because the helical - cut gearset is designed to roll each tooth in, then out, which is what makes them quiet. Dogboxes have the entire surface area of the tooth in "mesh" at any point in time, making the gears themselves, much much stronger. After 3 smashed mazda gearboxes with broken teeth, I know that helical gearsets aren't as strong as a dogbox :)
Awesome Vlog/Video!
What if you hit the wrong gear? Like in a syncho first will just force you back out
That's called a money shift.
it would be easy to learn this if you put a little video on the bottom corner of your video showing your feet on the acceralation
@marek0086 umm..its just what a Mechanical teacher that rebuilds gearboxs that told me & a whole class that, & has been a mechanic for over like 30 years...
made in 2009 but video and sound quality is like from 2013
The sound is good but the video looks like 1995
how do you get your steering wheel on the right side? does pfitzner also sell that?
it's just how the gears engage
Can you make a dog ring set for a T56M in the standard ratios? 2.97, 2.1, 1.XX, 1.0, .8, .6X?
Guns Cars and Digits G-force transmissions makes a dog ring kit for the T56
Sold! I want one
So is he using the clutch or not? Lmao because sometimes it looks like he is using it... i relaize that he does need to use it at the start...
Only in first gear. When upshift just lift off the throttle. No clutch neaded.
so, you upshift with no clutch? and rev match the downs?
How much did you pay? I went to their website and you have to enquire about pricing, which I don't want to do unless I'm serious. Did you get the 5 speed group N rally set?
@maersklandro maybe dogboxes aren't in OEM cars cause there really noisy?
think about want your saying first bro.
are there straight cut gears with synchromesh? to get the great sound and strength but to be able to use it for street driving all of the time?
Yes