But she crossed her own timeline already at the start of the season (maybe even twice depending if or not Amy had already been swapped for her doppelganger at that point)
@@adamlevine6700 Like the Star Trek episode where Guinan was there with Picard in the 1800s Earth era, and on the Enterprise "at the same time". When Riker went to her and complained that she was there and could tell him what to do, she told him that she couldn't because 'history has to fulfill itself'.
It's not that she couldn't cross her own timeline-- she did that in The Impossible Astronaut. But she couldn't go there to help the Doctor save herself from being taken because otherwise she wouldn't be able to go save herself in the first place. Melody had to be taken in order for River to become River. Older River faked her surprise and grief in The Impossible Astronaut because she already knew what the Doctor had done, and her younger self had witnessed her older self just stand there on the beach and watch. It was safe for her to go there and just do nothing, but in this case, she'd have had to work really hard to pretend to save herself. Also, the fact that she *knew* the Doctor would find out who she was that day suggests that he or her parents had already told her that she didn't show up until the end and revealed it all.
If you remember back to the episode "The Doctor's' Wife", where the TARDIS is inside a person. At the end Rory says that the TARDIS told him "the only water in the forest is the river" and that he should remember it because it's important.
I miss Matt's amazing acting, like in this scene where he's angry and at the same time crying without tears when he asks "Where the hell were you today?"
I know. I loved Eccleston anf Tennant as much as Smith because of what they brought to the table. Even tho Matt looked young, he never seemed that way. He was always able to convey a lifetime of emotion. I especially loved how quiet his rage was. It was lowly spoken, but built, and was no less powerful than if he shouted
The only thing that hurt more than this was when Amy screamed for Rory after realizing that melody was a flesh avatar. That moment killed me for weeks.
I mean, yea, in a way he 'met' her when she died, except he has already met her many times before that. River has visited and been with each of the Doctor's incarnations to spend time with them and get to know each of his different faces personally, on which she forms varying opinions and learns what makes them tick (for example, she learned never to mention the Time War around the Ninth Doctor because it makes him explode in anger and guilt). She erased herself from each of those incarnations memories to keep their timestream more intact and to avoid the Doctor remembering things about his future that he shouldn't know yet. The first time she allows the Doctor to remember her is when she meets Ten in the Library.
For a moment there we get a glimpse of the real Doctor..and it's a bit scary. "well soldier how goes the day?" an old saying from one Roman centurion to another in greeting. Matt Smith was brilliant, the anger, arrogance, violence.. then he buries it.
It's the peril of all Time Lords, from Rassilon to Omega to the last Barussa - with power comes arrogance, pride and dominion. Followed by utter devastation. In Big Finish, we see it in AU Romana in the Zagreus arc. The Doctor faces this test in 10,000 BC (Ian admonishes him), catches himself in the Armageddon Factor, examines the issue in Warrior's Gate, then faces it again as the Seventh Doctor (did we do right? time will tell... It usually does), then again as the ninth in multiple stories, the tenth in Waters of Mars. The Doctor will eventually become the Valeyard, we know that. The question is how many times can The Doctor avoid that fate?
@@jonathanday6692 No , the Doctor defeated teh Valyard in his 6th incarnation . The Valyard is all the Darkness in a Timelord . The War Doctor takes that role instead , doing things that were far in excess of her normal ethics . The Valeyard is dead .
@@laurenceroberts5239 Time travel means that the Valeyard may have died a thousand years into the future and a thousand years into the past, depending on your perspective. Time isn't a linear progression from cause to effect, but is more of a ball of timey-wimey stuff. The Valeyard might be anything. We know of a parallel universe where everyone has opposite personalities, so it could be The Doctor from the Inferno universe. It can't be anything from inside The Doctor, as the Valeyard can't then be the thirteenth regeneration of anything or survive The Doctor's death. The Doctor was given a brand new cycle of regenerations, just as a gigantic time rift was blasting itself apart. Something may have split off there, or when he dived into the time stream, or when he rebooted the universe. The Valeyard could be almost anything. And most of those anythings have twelve regenerations prior to the meeting on Gallifrey.
Greatest midseason cliffhanger ever. The music and the action work so amazingly well, and the last note just drops the floor right out from under the audience.
this, the "good men don't need rules. today is not the day to find out why i have so many" and the "don't play games with me. don't ever, ever think you are capable of that" are my matt's favorites. those are the moments you freaking know that the doctor is actually a really dangerous man. matt smith was the scariest from new who. he was amazing.
I like how angry River sounds at the beginning of her speech to the Doctor, as though on some level she does blame him a bit for what happened to her and now she's getting it off her chest. 0:36
B it’s still not as good. As a character who has gotten such depth and love. It makes no sense that she doesn’t get anything. Sarah Jane got a spin off and even Martha got a starring and recurring role. River was always a “guest appearance”
"And on my life she will be saved" that wording when in Silence in the library: "who say "Saved" you say "Safe", it saved them the only way a computer can"
First time I saw this it literally blew my mind. I was sitting in front of the TV for a whole hour after the episode until I could think clearly again.
This era of Doctor Who was PEAK. This is one of my favorite scenes of all time. I remember seeing it for the first time and crying out of happy shock. The music, the cinematography, the hype, the foreshadowing, the acting, a plot twist that was actually satisfying and made complete sense - everything is working 10/10 here.
I love Amy’s face at 4:03 😂 when rivers like ‘you have to concentrate on the word’ and then goes ‘oh and btw it doesn’t actually translate’. Amy’s face is just like ‘then why the hell would you tell me to concentrate on it , I am done with your bullcrap’ 😭😂
No he doesn't, they break up, he's too chicken to live with her because he's afraid they'll end up on darillium, he hooks up with Clara, and she's left legit thinking after all this crap she went through that he doesn't love her. And really, not telling her about her death and giving her the chance to circumvent it is incredibly shitty.
KGotschall He couldn’t. Remember in the Silence of the Library. Tenth Doctor says “time can be rewritten” and as river’s dying wish. She tells him not to, and to watch them run. The doctor wanted save River. Every time he’s met her, he’s wanted to save her, but he remembers River’s words. He’s going to watch it run.
No, because saved and safe will mean different things, of course. The Doctor does not know if River will be rescued, saved (at least, he doesn't know if this will happen before she's old enough to look after herself); but he does know she will be safe, that whatever she's put through, she'll be ok in the end, as River is there and she's an amanzing person. He knows she'll be at least safe with whoever took her away.
Oh my God Rory trying to get the gun away from Amy!!! Think of all the horrible things The Last Centurion probably had to do to keep the pandorica safe for all those years. He's not trying to save River he's trying to save Amy from living with shooting somebody. That just hit me now!
@@zenitramorange8632 not really. The above suggests Rory wants to shoot River himself - he doesn't. He doesn't want anyone to shoot River. No point looking deeper than that, with his roman past he can't remember, he just doesn't want Amy to shoot River.
@@seandabest4329 It dosn't matter about the Roman part, what the guy said was Rory is stopping Amy from shooting(no kill) a person because even if it doesn't kill River, Amy in anger will have shot someone.......I just reread that and I can see how you might be led to believe that and I'm not gonna delete any of this
@@zenitramorange8632 don't delete any of it. No point really, just confuses people later down the line when they see half or none of a conversation. My point is, I don't think there's a need to overcomplicate Rory telling Amy not to shoot River. I don't think it's because he was the last centurion protecting the Pandorica, or because he didn't want Amy to tarnish her soul. I believe the simple answer is best: Amy was pointing a gun at a friend, and Rory was trying to calm her down because he doesn't want anyone dead.
2:08 Freaking ninjas cutting onions in here... When I first saw this I thought he saw the names of his children with River and realized her to be his wife...the first moment of true recognition of who she really was, and the utter joy at the upcoming future. It was, of course, the first moment of recognition, but in a slightly different way. But still, I can't help but picture that moment of thinking the Time Lords would be reborn with the Doctor and River. The music really elevates the moment in a way that words could never do. Get out of my eyes, damn tears.
Everything about this scene is perfect. From 11’s anger at river in the beginning and river putting him in his place to amy’s rage and confusion building up to 11’s realization of who river is and then eventually to Amy and rory figuring it out with the music swelling in the background uGH it’s all so perfect
1:45 the intensity and danger in Matt's face. It makes me think, if the rumors are true that he'll be playing a baddie in Star Wars IX, that he'll be a spectacular one.
i wish he'd play more baddies, he's so good at it. he was so sleazy and frightening in lost river. i imagine if he was in star wars he'd probably be covered in cgi. he's a perfect character actor.
You know what. I don't blame the doctor for what happened. In the grand scheme of things it was all the time lords fault. And even outside of that, he only fought people who tried to hurt other people.
Moffat Doctor is addicted to conflict, to fighting evil, he's making peace with what Tennant was so he can get to Capaldi. Not a warrior, not a boyfriend, just the Doctor
@@rafaelmonteirocdj Exactly, he can't resist fighting - and fighting is a mainline to zeal & anger, and those 2 aspects build momentum indefinitely unless something intervenes. Considering the fact that the Doctor has a lot of pent-up feelings of righteous indignation, grief, hatred, and classic Time Lord pride re: war (thanks _to_ the Time War), having him engage in warfare is tempting all of those things to come spilling out again. Not to mention, he's _very_ good at what he does. You apply that to a tireless negative spiral, and you get a lot of things burning - including himself.
@@philiptom2799 it's like your a monster if you have to kill people to stop them from hurting other people. also you're a monster if you're effective enough in the that, that all you need to do is remind them (intimidation) to get them stop them. that's exactly where you want to get it, where you no longer have to hurt people, people respect that you wont let shit go done on your watch. she must have been just winding him up lol doctors cure plagues, that's what he does. it's either that or he gives up and goes home. i dont know what river wants from him. i thought fighting the good fight was good, suddenly it's bad because it will lead to bad consequences and feelings that aren't pretty? that's something a dictator would say, best to stay at home and not make waves lest you and your family will suffer consequences.
But then it turned out that it wasn't just "in fear of him". They didn't do all this because of a general fear of the Doctor, it was because of a very specific thing happening on Trenzalore.
It's not like that would stop the Time Lords returning. In order for the Time Lords to have existed, they must return. It's an interesting property of a Matrix prediction in classic Who, but also a requirement of the Guardians. There can be neither order nor chaos if time itself becomes unstable, say by fixed points collapsing. The enemies of the Doctor would have united to eliminate him ("enemy of my enemy" theory) before eliminating each other. They didn't, so the word isn't the whole story. The question "who is The Doctor" also has no meaning, per se. Gallifrey has The Matrix to examine possible timelines and The Doctor is changeable with each regeneration. Gallifrey has a brain download for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh Doctors. They know who he is. Therefore the question is incidental and The Silence knew that as did the Shadow Proclamation. No, I'm inclined to think that The Silence is the product of another Time Lord, say the Meddling Monk, who wanted to be the "hero".
I love how excited the Doctor becomes when he finally realises River is his wife and How he rubs his hands in childish delight when she hints that they have sex. So sweet.
There is a theory that I like, about the Gallafreian words in the Cot: "This cot belongs to ____ , daughter of The Doctor and River Song" There is no follow-up in the show that indicates what those words are, so there's no way to know with certainty, but I like this possibility and it explains a lot of The Doctor's reaction.
The cot is the Doctor's cot from his original (Harnell) incarnation's infancy. This was alluded to several times in the "Demon's Run" episode ("The Doctor's first stars"), and more. The common theory is that the Gallifreyan on the outside of the cot is the Doctor's actual real name. I mean really, the Doctor and Patience had 13 kids, one of which gave life to Susan who traveled with her Grandfather. It's not out of the ordinary that he would keep such a family keepsake and precious item safe on the TARDIS after losing everyone and everything (or so he thought) during the Time War.
Actually he was stating, quite literally, that they had recently kissed. Which her parents did not know about. Theirs is a beautiful love story. You know River speaks of a wife in the episode “The Husbands of River Song.” Which fills me with hope that she may cameo during Jodie Whittakers time. She’s such a great character.
I know most people have mixed feelings on river and her story, But I think the way this scene was directed and written is brilliant. The moment her name appeared on the cloth, is still today one of my favourite moments in this show. And the music for this scene is really underrated.
Everyone has "their" Who, and it's always better than everyone else's. I love the Fourth and many stories of the First. That doesn't invalidate your love of the Tennant and Smith eras. There were excellent stories in those years and that doesn't make audio stories like Paradise of Death or Zagreus any less. Everyone has their own criteria. Miss the days you enjoy, they were YOUR era. Toast them with the drink of your choice. Write fanfic - I do. Relive your favourite characters in whole new adventures. Some of the better writers go on to professionally write spin-off books. That could be you. At the same time, don't stop yourself enjoying episodes from classic, the BBV spinoffs or from Doctors later than your era. The Auton trilogy is probably not to your taste, the characters are more 3rd Doctor style. But you might want to try Summoned By Shadows. In the audio series, Storm Warning and Chimes Of Midnight have elements of humour you might like.
Absolutely love every detail of this scene and did anyone mention the way Amy bends her knee when she picks up the gun? Same way how a pregnant woman bends over....omg the details they put in the acting....
@Moonfall777 I never understood the hate for Moffat. Yes his last season was a little weak but at least it FELT like Doctor who. This current season is crap.
@Moonfall777 ikr, man I miss this the era of matt smith. Best season next to david's and Baker's. (Still need to see baker's era but I heard great things about that season, sorry)
@Moonfall777 yeah, even though Moffat's last season upset a lot of people. It was still doctor who until now where the show is really bad and this season not having a Christmas special made me laugh as I said before rip doctor who 1963-2017. Rip my favorite bbc show ever.
I think River’s speech in this episode is one of the most powerful moments of all time! Reminding him of the past, and warning of the potential future!
reminding him to throw in the towel on fighting against people/aliens who hurt others. ikr. he should absolutely not be a warrior. always blame the person who's fighting against the injustices instead of the the instigator who's committing the injustices. never help anyone because you could cause terrible terrible things to happen and that will be on you so just go, find a cure for the common cold, like a doctor should. what he's doing is good but its too good so that makes it bad.
Incrediable episode/one of (many) favorites of DOCTOR WHO when our River Song/Alexandra Kingston: tells her parents "who she is"....."what a big "wonderful" surprise that was!! River Song is the daughter of Amy Pond and Rory: that's oh so cool & clever writing. We, hope, that actor Alexandra Kingston will be in the 60th Doctor Who Anniversary special Event..."she's totally amazing as River Song. Alex & Matt (the 11th Doctor) have great chemistry!!!
It took me so long to realize she couldn’t be there till the end because that would mean crossing her own timeline
Omg i just realized it with your comment
But she crossed her own timeline already at the start of the season (maybe even twice depending if or not Amy had already been swapped for her doppelganger at that point)
@@adamlevine6700 Like the Star Trek episode where Guinan was there with Picard in the 1800s Earth era, and on the Enterprise "at the same time". When Riker went to her and complained that she was there and could tell him what to do, she told him that she couldn't because 'history has to fulfill itself'.
It's not that she couldn't cross her own timeline-- she did that in The Impossible Astronaut. But she couldn't go there to help the Doctor save herself from being taken because otherwise she wouldn't be able to go save herself in the first place. Melody had to be taken in order for River to become River. Older River faked her surprise and grief in The Impossible Astronaut because she already knew what the Doctor had done, and her younger self had witnessed her older self just stand there on the beach and watch. It was safe for her to go there and just do nothing, but in this case, she'd have had to work really hard to pretend to save herself. Also, the fact that she *knew* the Doctor would find out who she was that day suggests that he or her parents had already told her that she didn't show up until the end and revealed it all.
@@IzzyKawaiichi but whenever they cross their own timeline the younger one never remembers it because it creates a type of paradox?
"the only water in the forest is the river" sounds so simple but ends up being so profound........
William Olson I’m going to meet Alex Kingston at emcon in Nottingham this year
Anneka Lunn your so lucky! Tell me how it is!
If you remember back to the episode "The Doctor's' Wife", where the TARDIS is inside a person. At the end Rory says that the TARDIS told him "the only water in the forest is the river" and that he should remember it because it's important.
This WAS by far the most shocking moment IN the entire Matt Smith tenure as the Doctor!!!!!!! Shocking meaning good!!!!!!!!!
@@annekalunn99 did you meet her?
I miss Matt's amazing acting, like in this scene where he's angry and at the same time crying without tears when he asks "Where the hell were you today?"
I know. I loved Eccleston anf Tennant as much as Smith because of what they brought to the table.
Even tho Matt looked young, he never seemed that way. He was always able to convey a lifetime of emotion.
I especially loved how quiet his rage was. It was lowly spoken, but built, and was no less powerful than if he shouted
Avoiding a paradox sweetie
The doctors little giggles after he figures it out are just freaking adorable
The only thing that hurt more than this was when Amy screamed for Rory after realizing that melody was a flesh avatar. That moment killed me for weeks.
That was heartbreaking!
Don't you forget that scene on the beach with Rose and the Doctor...
I wonder if Amy realized right away after Melody "melted" that she was a flesh avatar, or if she really thought her child had somehow been killed :-(
Oh my God, that helpless little giggle.
I don’t think the Doctor has ever, in all his life before, made a noise like that.
Ten did. A lot, actually.
@@brandihunter7302 I know it's quite funny
Any episode with River Song is my favorite one.
The episode which I began to like River Song.
I have been in love with Alex Kingston ever since ER in the 90's... :D She is a fantastic actress!
I prefer Rose.
Big high five, Alexandra Kingston our RIVER SONG is "awesome" talent from head to toe.
I have a gay friend who says that River Song is the only woman who ever got him even a little bit excited.
"Amy you have to stay calm"
*Amy picks up gun*
Ethan Dalton yep that’s pretty CALM if you ask me 😂
no....the other kind of calm
She's *SO* Scottish
Her inner Nebula jumped out
@@cunningsmile4166 lol I was gonna say that's calm for a Scot
She met him the day she was born. He met her the say she died. Just another adventure for the doctor
I mean, yea, in a way he 'met' her when she died, except he has already met her many times before that. River has visited and been with each of the Doctor's incarnations to spend time with them and get to know each of his different faces personally, on which she forms varying opinions and learns what makes them tick (for example, she learned never to mention the Time War around the Ninth Doctor because it makes him explode in anger and guilt). She erased herself from each of those incarnations memories to keep their timestream more intact and to avoid the Doctor remembering things about his future that he shouldn't know yet. The first time she allows the Doctor to remember her is when she meets Ten in the Library.
I think that is part of one of those mini series things. I'd love to see it, but I don't really know where to look.
Xylarxcode - makes sense, where did you get that info from?
Really good):
@@Hoodoo123 There have been Audio-Dramas about River. I know at least one had her and 4. That's probably where he got it from
@@nachtwaya8721 The Diaries always have her making the Doctor forget her (but I suspect he remembers ;-))
For a moment there we get a glimpse of the real Doctor..and it's a bit scary. "well soldier how goes the day?" an old saying from one Roman centurion to another in greeting. Matt Smith was brilliant, the anger, arrogance, violence.. then he buries it.
well this IS the guy who can make roughly 500 million people start to commit genocide without them being aware of it...
It's the peril of all Time Lords, from Rassilon to Omega to the last Barussa - with power comes arrogance, pride and dominion. Followed by utter devastation. In Big Finish, we see it in AU Romana in the Zagreus arc.
The Doctor faces this test in 10,000 BC (Ian admonishes him), catches himself in the Armageddon Factor, examines the issue in Warrior's Gate, then faces it again as the Seventh Doctor (did we do right? time will tell... It usually does), then again as the ninth in multiple stories, the tenth in Waters of Mars.
The Doctor will eventually become the Valeyard, we know that. The question is how many times can The Doctor avoid that fate?
Matt smith played the emotions VERY well
@@jonathanday6692 No , the Doctor defeated teh Valyard in his 6th incarnation . The Valyard is all the Darkness in a Timelord . The War Doctor takes that role instead , doing things that were far in excess of her normal ethics . The Valeyard is dead .
@@laurenceroberts5239 Time travel means that the Valeyard may have died a thousand years into the future and a thousand years into the past, depending on your perspective. Time isn't a linear progression from cause to effect, but is more of a ball of timey-wimey stuff.
The Valeyard might be anything. We know of a parallel universe where everyone has opposite personalities, so it could be The Doctor from the Inferno universe. It can't be anything from inside The Doctor, as the Valeyard can't then be the thirteenth regeneration of anything or survive The Doctor's death.
The Doctor was given a brand new cycle of regenerations, just as a gigantic time rift was blasting itself apart. Something may have split off there, or when he dived into the time stream, or when he rebooted the universe.
The Valeyard could be almost anything. And most of those anythings have twelve regenerations prior to the meeting on Gallifrey.
One of the best moments in the 50-year history of Doctor Who. And that's saying a lot. This is truly a beautiful and brilliant scene.
You know what's worse this was better than the 50th anniversary episode
Greatest midseason cliffhanger ever. The music and the action work so amazingly well, and the last note just drops the floor right out from under the audience.
no matter how often i see that i still get the chills
chris feltner Took the words right out of my mouth.
Exactly me too!! Now Jody Whittaker is about to do her thing!!:)
Loulou Willis well, her season was a bit shite let's be honest.
The two best Matt Smith scenes: 'Hello.. I'm the Doctor.... Basically... Run....', And this one...
this, the "good men don't need rules. today is not the day to find out why i have so many" and the "don't play games with me. don't ever, ever think you are capable of that" are my matt's favorites. those are the moments you freaking know that the doctor is actually a really dangerous man. matt smith was the scariest from new who. he was amazing.
You left out "the speech" from Rings of Akhaten...
Late chime in but what about his speech to a dying dalek where he said "and you looked up and saw the face of the devil himself, hello dalek"
Thom Clark definitely
one of the best moments on this show ever, seconded only in my opinion by van gogh seeing his own exhibit
MrBigbenny23 I agree 100%. I love Vincent and The Doctor
I like how angry River sounds at the beginning of her speech to the Doctor, as though on some level she does blame him a bit for what happened to her and now she's getting it off her chest. 0:36
Huh
I'm pretty sure that actually is true, but she's doing it for his sake, not her's
No idea how this got so many thumbs up, nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way
Riversong should have gotten her own spinoff. People would have actually watched that.
she did get her own audiotape series
@@user-rc1my2xc3s Thanks, didn't know that.
B it’s still not as good. As a character who has gotten such depth and love. It makes no sense that she doesn’t get anything. Sarah Jane got a spin off and even Martha got a starring and recurring role. River was always a “guest appearance”
Well she would've, but the views would've been higher than that of Chinball's run.
If they wanted to do a female Doctor.. they already had one.
So many years later... and this scene still pulls all the heart strings
"And on my life she will be saved" that wording when in Silence in the library: "who say "Saved" you say "Safe", it saved them the only way a computer can"
I'm pretty sure he says safe here
If you go back (or is it forward) to the David Tenant doctor she was saved.
Andreas Arnøy he says ‘Safe’ in this scene
First time I saw this it literally blew my mind. I was sitting in front of the TV for a whole hour after the episode until I could think clearly again.
Umm that’s a lie
@@ApexGorilla1 And how do you know that?
Iiduli because nobody sits in front of the tv for an hour in total silence. It’s the most over exaggerated statement I’ve ever heard
It took me the rest of the day to get over the post-Inception headache.
@@obiwankenobi687 Oh don't be such a spoil sport :)
The look on his face when river gets there, he looks like he doesn't know if he wants to go hug her or scream at her
This era of Doctor Who was PEAK. This is one of my favorite scenes of all time. I remember seeing it for the first time and crying out of happy shock. The music, the cinematography, the hype, the foreshadowing, the acting, a plot twist that was actually satisfying and made complete sense - everything is working 10/10 here.
almost as good as "The face of Boe they called me"
Kellsey Dawn Beaver Starr Jack Harkness!!!!
It'll never beat YANA, though.
Kellsey Dawn Beaver Starr Oh yeah, that was the best.
The hybrid will be the product of two great warrior races.
Agreed. This was one of the greatest reveals, and his face is just priceless when he looks at Rory and Amy.
This is one of the greatest moments in all of doctor who. It was breath taking.
“We get that word from you”
Fun fact. That was originally a fan theory written by the man who would one day write this episode
it's a bootstrap paraox. he created the meaning but he chose it because of what it meant.
Whether or not you could predict the twist-revelation, this is indeed one of Doctor Who's best. 👍🏻
Love this episode. Matt Smith’s giggle, and reaction when he figures it out is so cute. Poor Amy and Rory, though. Broke my heart.
Matt Smith. Best doctor ever, and I've watched it for 35 years
I love Amy’s face at 4:03 😂 when rivers like ‘you have to concentrate on the word’ and then goes ‘oh and btw it doesn’t actually translate’. Amy’s face is just like ‘then why the hell would you tell me to concentrate on it , I am done with your bullcrap’ 😭😂
It was to calm her down and give orry time to make sure she doesn't kill her
The mother of plot twists. I wish I could watch this episode for the first time again and feel the amazement once again.
I have seen this scene a million times and it still brings tears
One of my older coworkers today said “how goes the day” and I immediately thought of this scene.
I love how his attitude flips around a second once he realizes who she is
The way none of anything she was saying was registering with me until she literally said “I’m your daughter.”
I dont know if I already said this, but...this is one of the best twists I've seen in Doctor Who so far.
One of my favourite moments ever on Dr Who. Alex Kingston and Matt Smith are totally brilliant. Really miss 11 and River Song.
The way she says, “Hello”.
3:37
River: "Amy you have to stay calm."
Amy: *pulls a gun on River*
NEVER TELL A GRIEVING MOTHER TO STAY CALM.
Well, Amy’s not really grieving, her daughters right in front of her
I think I heard somewhere that BBC didn’t tell Karen and Arthur who River was, so their reactions were real in that scene.
They were filming the scene and they still didn't know because they couldn't hear Alex because the building had fans blowing really loud.
CeNedra L For real or is it just a joke? Sorry I can’t detect sarcasm 😅
I mean it was literally easy to put together. River. Pond.
@@Veela666 Melody.Song
"And he will care for her whatever it takes."
No he doesn't, they break up, he's too chicken to live with her because he's afraid they'll end up on darillium, he hooks up with Clara, and she's left legit thinking after all this crap she went through that he doesn't love her. And really, not telling her about her death and giving her the chance to circumvent it is incredibly shitty.
@@GeronimoKennel what? Haha when did you stop watching DW?
@@jessbelen1492 when moffat stopped writing it. He was so good. The guy now is terrible.
KGotschall He couldn’t. Remember in the Silence of the Library. Tenth Doctor says “time can be rewritten” and as river’s dying wish. She tells him not to, and to watch them run. The doctor wanted save River. Every time he’s met her, he’s wanted to save her, but he remembers River’s words. He’s going to watch it run.
Meeting your adult child, even more mature than yourself?!
Hell, at that point she might be a few hundred years old.
and about ten times the age of yourself.
It's a time travel show. That kind of story is inevitable.
The fact I know this off by heart since this episode came out, goes to show how this definitely is one of the best moments of Doctor Who.
best. reveal. ever. xx
I like how river says yes you better be almost as if nervous her boyfriend meeting her parents truly for first time
3:05
The doctor: “Amy and Rory i know where to find your daughter and on my life she will be safe”
Don’t you mean “saved”
Don't break my heart like this
........
Goddammit
No, because saved and safe will mean different things, of course. The Doctor does not know if River will be rescued, saved (at least, he doesn't know if this will happen before she's old enough to look after herself); but he does know she will be safe, that whatever she's put through, she'll be ok in the end, as River is there and she's an amanzing person. He knows she'll be at least safe with whoever took her away.
Guto Knust Dude, he is making a reference to Silence in the Libary when River dies and the doctor *saved* all her memories
Wow, that went right over my head, mate! I got really depressed now...
Just hearing River say"Hello" melts me a little.
Oh my God Rory trying to get the gun away from Amy!!! Think of all the horrible things The Last Centurion probably had to do to keep the pandorica safe for all those years. He's not trying to save River he's trying to save Amy from living with shooting somebody. That just hit me now!
No, it's very much him not wanting Amy to shoot River
@@seandabest4329 that's the same thing
@@zenitramorange8632 not really. The above suggests Rory wants to shoot River himself - he doesn't. He doesn't want anyone to shoot River. No point looking deeper than that, with his roman past he can't remember, he just doesn't want Amy to shoot River.
@@seandabest4329 It dosn't matter about the Roman part, what the guy said was Rory is stopping Amy from shooting(no kill) a person because even if it doesn't kill River, Amy in anger will have shot someone.......I just reread that and I can see how you might be led to believe that and I'm not gonna delete any of this
@@zenitramorange8632 don't delete any of it. No point really, just confuses people later down the line when they see half or none of a conversation. My point is, I don't think there's a need to overcomplicate Rory telling Amy not to shoot River. I don't think it's because he was the last centurion protecting the Pandorica, or because he didn't want Amy to tarnish her soul. I believe the simple answer is best: Amy was pointing a gun at a friend, and Rory was trying to calm her down because he doesn't want anyone dead.
2:08 Freaking ninjas cutting onions in here... When I first saw this I thought he saw the names of his children with River and realized her to be his wife...the first moment of true recognition of who she really was, and the utter joy at the upcoming future. It was, of course, the first moment of recognition, but in a slightly different way. But still, I can't help but picture that moment of thinking the Time Lords would be reborn with the Doctor and River. The music really elevates the moment in a way that words could never do. Get out of my eyes, damn tears.
This is the scene where Smith became my favorite Doctor and River won a place in my heart.
Love the point at 1:41 where he's walking forward and they have him half in light and shadow.
This ALWAYS brings me to tears. And I can't help but think of the Library and all they've been through...
The river song arc was just a stroke of pure genius.
Everything about this scene is perfect. From 11’s anger at river in the beginning and river putting him in his place to amy’s rage and confusion building up to 11’s realization of who river is and then eventually to Amy and rory figuring it out with the music swelling in the background uGH it’s all so perfect
Still gives chills whenever I watch this scene. Some of the best storytelling in TV history.
1:48 "Who are you?"
"Oh you know who I am, I'm River Song. Couldn't very well keep calling myself Melody Pond now, could I?"
Nick Mitchell well, spoilers...
@@dbrown7241 oh fuck off it been out since 2011
@@jackzter04 not that twist. Missy's. That's the one that could potentially get spoiled, though your point stands, been out 6 years now
yaaasss!! Best 5 minutes of Television ever!
1:45 the intensity and danger in Matt's face. It makes me think, if the rumors are true that he'll be playing a baddie in Star Wars IX, that he'll be a spectacular one.
Donald Watson, that’s the face of a man who was NOT walking away without the truth this time!
i wish he'd play more baddies, he's so good at it. he was so sleazy and frightening in lost river. i imagine if he was in star wars he'd probably be covered in cgi. he's a perfect character actor.
You know what. I don't blame the doctor for what happened. In the grand scheme of things it was all the time lords fault. And even outside of that, he only fought people who tried to hurt other people.
Yeah and im pretty sure River knows that, too. SHe was trying to piss him off haha
Moffat Doctor is addicted to conflict, to fighting evil, he's making peace with what Tennant was so he can get to Capaldi. Not a warrior, not a boyfriend, just the Doctor
@@rafaelmonteirocdj
Exactly, he can't resist fighting - and fighting is a mainline to zeal & anger, and those 2 aspects build momentum indefinitely unless something intervenes. Considering the fact that the Doctor has a lot of pent-up feelings of righteous indignation, grief, hatred, and classic Time Lord pride re: war (thanks _to_ the Time War), having him engage in warfare is tempting all of those things to come spilling out again.
Not to mention, he's _very_ good at what he does. You apply that to a tireless negative spiral, and you get a lot of things burning - including himself.
I think River was saying that intimidation and fear were becoming his primary weapons.
@@philiptom2799 it's like your a monster if you have to kill people to stop them from hurting other people. also you're a monster if you're effective enough in the that, that all you need to do is remind them (intimidation) to get them stop them. that's exactly where you want to get it, where you no longer have to hurt people, people respect that you wont let shit go done on your watch. she must have been just winding him up lol doctors cure plagues, that's what he does. it's either that or he gives up and goes home. i dont know what river wants from him. i thought fighting the good fight was good, suddenly it's bad because it will lead to bad consequences and feelings that aren't pretty? that's something a dictator would say, best to stay at home and not make waves lest you and your family will suffer consequences.
I still remember the extent to which this reveal blew my freakin mind.
Such a great episode! Watching this makes me wish for a return to greatness as it was once in writing and fantastic storytelling.
But then it turned out that it wasn't just "in fear of him". They didn't do all this because of a general fear of the Doctor, it was because of a very specific thing happening on Trenzalore.
Antony D'Andrea that was in fear of him saying his name and bringing back the timelords
The Silence was an entire religious order devoted entirely to the Doctors silence on that Day, Even creating a Whole new time lord to stop him.
It's not like that would stop the Time Lords returning. In order for the Time Lords to have existed, they must return. It's an interesting property of a Matrix prediction in classic Who, but also a requirement of the Guardians. There can be neither order nor chaos if time itself becomes unstable, say by fixed points collapsing.
The enemies of the Doctor would have united to eliminate him ("enemy of my enemy" theory) before eliminating each other. They didn't, so the word isn't the whole story.
The question "who is The Doctor" also has no meaning, per se. Gallifrey has The Matrix to examine possible timelines and The Doctor is changeable with each regeneration. Gallifrey has a brain download for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh Doctors. They know who he is.
Therefore the question is incidental and The Silence knew that as did the Shadow Proclamation.
No, I'm inclined to think that The Silence is the product of another Time Lord, say the Meddling Monk, who wanted to be the "hero".
I love how excited the Doctor becomes when he finally realises River is his wife and How he rubs his hands in childish delight when she hints that they have sex. So sweet.
There is a theory that I like, about the Gallafreian words in the Cot: "This cot belongs to ____ , daughter of The Doctor and River Song" There is no follow-up in the show that indicates what those words are, so there's no way to know with certainty, but I like this possibility and it explains a lot of The Doctor's reaction.
The cot is the Doctor's cot from his original (Harnell) incarnation's infancy. This was alluded to several times in the "Demon's Run" episode ("The Doctor's first stars"), and more. The common theory is that the Gallifreyan on the outside of the cot is the Doctor's actual real name. I mean really, the Doctor and Patience had 13 kids, one of which gave life to Susan who traveled with her Grandfather. It's not out of the ordinary that he would keep such a family keepsake and precious item safe on the TARDIS after losing everyone and everything (or so he thought) during the Time War.
Actually he was stating, quite literally, that they had recently kissed. Which her parents did not know about. Theirs is a beautiful love story.
You know River speaks of a wife in the episode “The Husbands of River Song.” Which fills me with hope that she may cameo during Jodie Whittakers time. She’s such a great character.
Anthony Tyger 💯! I believe it’s his name on the cot. I also believe he flat out tells Amy that it was his cot.
erm no, the whole point is that it is Rivers name on the cot because the doctor finds her as a baby and helps her. She uses his cot.
This scene always gives me goosebumps
I remember the first time I watched the episode. As soon as she said "the only water in the forest is the river", the penny dropped and so did my jaw.
still get chills from this one...such an amazing episode
The Melody Pond - River Song thing was so damn clever!
I did not put it together until she and the Doctor stoff at the crib together
And now the Dr says “Fam” all the time. Oh how times change
I love the score in this scene!!
One of he few scenes where I’ll still cry no matter how many times I see this
This jack being the face of boe Donna turning into dr. Donna and missy being the master!!! My favorite reveals
It still gives me goosebumps. I am Melody, I am your daughter. I remember watching this a second time with my friend's son and he was so shocked 😂
In tears watching this beautiful wonderful. I want my show back
The Doctor realising who River is would be me meeting Alex Kingston. :D
"You are...!"
"Yes...."
+hopps around and claps hands like a todler+
"And on my life, she will be safe"
And then I became obsessed with this ship forever
he´s playing soooooo goooood, soooo sweet, i love this moment with River`s outing
Matt Smith and River Sing are the ultimate combination. So perfect.
One of my all time favorite parts
I was sad when the doctor lost the last centurion, and let her go with him.
I'm pretty sure that Amy's next words were "You are so grounded young lady!"
I know most people have mixed feelings on river and her story, But I think the way this scene was directed and written is brilliant. The moment her name appeared on the cloth, is still today one of my favourite moments in this show. And the music for this scene is really underrated.
have seen this a dozen times. Still gives me goosebumps and makes me cry.
I love how this series wasn't shmaltzy. He left & left River to sort it.
I miss the good ol' days of Doctor Who- The BEST episodes are with Matt Smith and David Tennant. OH,how I miss those days.
Everyone has "their" Who, and it's always better than everyone else's. I love the Fourth and many stories of the First. That doesn't invalidate your love of the Tennant and Smith eras. There were excellent stories in those years and that doesn't make audio stories like Paradise of Death or Zagreus any less.
Everyone has their own criteria.
Miss the days you enjoy, they were YOUR era. Toast them with the drink of your choice. Write fanfic - I do. Relive your favourite characters in whole new adventures. Some of the better writers go on to professionally write spin-off books. That could be you.
At the same time, don't stop yourself enjoying episodes from classic, the BBV spinoffs or from Doctors later than your era. The Auton trilogy is probably not to your taste, the characters are more 3rd Doctor style. But you might want to try Summoned By Shadows.
In the audio series, Storm Warning and Chimes Of Midnight have elements of humour you might like.
That was so amazing!! thank you so much for uploading this!!!
Ooohh still get chills, brilliant!
River: Amy, you have to stay calm.
Amy: *Immediately pulls a gun on River*
That was one of those “well... I wasn’t expecting that!” moments
“Amy you have to stay calm” *immediately pick up a gun*
This reveal fuckstarted my head. The whole going the other way in time business for this show is genius
Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is how you write a plot twist.
Absolutely love every detail of this scene and did anyone mention the way Amy bends her knee when she picks up the gun? Same way how a pregnant woman bends over....omg the details they put in the acting....
This is my all time favourite episode
It can't be 11 years ago since this was posted.
This was an incredible scene. Alex’s (River) acting in this scene was great.
I hope the writers are this good for the next doctor
They're not.
@Moonfall777 I never understood the hate for Moffat. Yes his last season was a little weak but at least it FELT like Doctor who. This current season is crap.
@Moonfall777 ikr, man I miss this the era of matt smith. Best season next to david's and Baker's. (Still need to see baker's era but I heard great things about that season, sorry)
@Moonfall777 yep and now unfortunately we have writers who can't write for dw at all. :(
@Moonfall777 yeah, even though Moffat's last season upset a lot of people. It was still doctor who until now where the show is really bad and this season not having a Christmas special made me laugh as I said before rip doctor who 1963-2017. Rip my favorite bbc show ever.
Definitely one of my favorite Dr Who scenes, his anger, his sadness and his joy. Matt Smith was epic in this scene!
I think River’s speech in this episode is one of the most powerful moments of all time! Reminding him of the past, and warning of the potential future!
reminding him to throw in the towel on fighting against people/aliens who hurt others. ikr. he should absolutely not be a warrior. always blame the person who's fighting against the injustices instead of the the instigator who's committing the injustices. never help anyone because you could cause terrible terrible things to happen and that will be on you so just go, find a cure for the common cold, like a doctor should. what he's doing is good but its too good so that makes it bad.
Incrediable episode/one of (many) favorites of DOCTOR WHO when our River Song/Alexandra Kingston: tells her parents "who she is"....."what a big "wonderful" surprise that was!! River Song is the daughter of Amy Pond and Rory: that's oh so cool & clever writing.
We, hope, that actor Alexandra Kingston will be in the 60th Doctor Who Anniversary special Event..."she's totally amazing as River Song. Alex & Matt (the 11th Doctor) have great chemistry!!!
My favorite moment: The Doctor's anger at River at 0:11
If only Doctor Who was still this good in 2019.
completelyrandomtask give 13 a chance, it was her debut season, 12 didn’t have a good first season till the end
@@deadpooldan9862 thank you! She's good in the twelfth season
@@thebakalord Uh, no. Just. No.