High Elves TIER LIST - CAMPAIGN (Total Warhammer 2)
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Final Tier List for Campaign for the High Elves. This is applicable to Vortex and Mortal Empires. Your reliance on lineholders and your economy will determine your use of melee infantry but these rankings are per my own experience and subsequent playtesting, all on legendary difficulty.
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High Elves Tier List - Total War: Warhammer 2
00:00 Intro
00:24 Rankings by Tier (Campaign Progression)
00:56 Rankings DEFINED (important!)
01:30 Legendary vs Normal Difficulty
02:00 Tier 1: Archer
02:12 High Elf Racial Strengths
03:00 Spearmen
03:30 Martial Prowess & Defensive Infantry
04:30 Rangers
06:22 Archer in Light Armour
07:12 Tier 2: Nobles
08:23 Lothern Seaguard Without Shields
09:48 Ellyrian Reaver Archers
10:56 Great Eagle
12:10 Ellyrian Reavers
12:43 Tier 3: Mage (Fire)
14:22 Lothern Seaguard with Shields
16:45 Silverin Guard
19:10 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
20:59 Tyranoc Charriot
21:40 Shadow Warriors
22:47 White Lions of Chrace
24:12 War Lions of Chrace
24:51 Silverhelms
25:34 Tier 4: Sisters of Avelorn
27:56 Handmaidens
28:40 Loremaster of Hoeth
30:38 Sun Dragon and Moon Dragon
32:28 Flamespire Phoenix and Frostheart Phoenix
34:13 Swordmasters of Hoeth
35:47 Ithilmar and Lion Chariots of Chrace
12:43 Tier 3: Mage (Fire)
14:22 Lothern Seaguard with Shields
16:45 Silverin Guard
19:10 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
20:59 Tyranoc Charriot
21:40 Shadow Warriors
22:47 White Lions of Chrace
24:12 War Lions of Chrace
24:51 Silverhelms
25:34 Tier 4: Sisters of Avelorn
27:56 Handmaidens
28:40 Loremaster of Hoeth
30:38 Sun Dragon and Moon Dragon
32:28 Flamespire Phoenix and Frostheart Phoenix
34:13 Swordmasters of Hoeth
35:47 Ithilmar and Lion Chariots of Chrace
36:36 Tier 5: Arcane Phoenix
37:22 Star Dragon
39:06 Phoenix Guard
42:24 Dragon Princes
43:35 Yvresse - Mistwalker Units
45:12 Naggarythe - Shadow Units
46:01 Knights of Caledor - Dragon Encounter Units
46:34 Avelorn - Tree Spirit Units
47:52 My Play Style vs This List
For more context on the strategies discussed here, please see my High Elves Race Guide and if you have any additions or disagreements we'd love to discuss them in the comments and even have you join our Dischord to discuss upcoming guides!
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Thanks Champions!
#Highelves #Totalwar #tierlist #ranked #totalwarhammer #warhammer #Tyrion #Imrik #Alarielle #teclis # eltharion #Alithanar
Please note this is an unofficial video and is not endorsed by SEGA or the Creative Assembly in any way. For more information on Total War, please visit www.totalwar.com. - Ігри
The work you've done putting this list together is very impressive! Thinking to my games as high elves, the units you list as C or below I've only really used when they come in the starting armies - at least until they get inevitably get replaced! I loved nomming greenskins with Eltharions war lions :D
One of the best things about starting armies is it gives you a taste of different units from T1 and beyond. Some units are "tier appropriate" but on higher levels of play, the desire to favor effective buildings means missing out on some options. Tyrion starting with horse units is a nice touch for this reason!
EDIT: Also, thanks heaps for sharing and supporting the channel. Appreciate it mate!
For someone just about to start their first high elf campaign, your videos have been amazing help. Thank you so much for you contributions!
Hearing it's helped out is a great reward. Thanks for the comment and sub mate!
best tier list video. I like that you added the Tier columns, it makes the progression of getting the units make a lot more sense when compared to just going sequentially by type (eg. melee, archer, monstrous, etc.)
Thanks mate. Means a lot to hear that. I genuinely put a tonne of work into the placings and presentation as a well designed tier list can really add some campaign context... I also can't stand poorly made ones, thrown together quickly, full of rushed conclusions and errors - so hypocrisy holds me accountable haha.
A lot of these c - tier units just feel like they are designed specifically for multiplyers.
Couldn't agree more with you there mate. Quite a different game. One you need to find the best spend toward an army to win any battle, just a single time. The other you want to spend a single time to win several battles in the long term. Also, sometimes alternatives simply 'exist'. High elves don't do offensive melee as well as the dark elves, but at least we get the choice :)
Or lower difficulties as melee infantry really suffers from the AI bonuses from increased difficulty while ranged units don't since those bonuses only apply to melee attack and defense values thus no change in terms of taking missile damage. But yeah even in lower difficulties in order for the melee infantry units to actually be good they need to be able to outperform the archers, which I can't say any of them actually do, especially not the Sisters of Avalon.
Pinpoint accuracy on this list! Swordmasters and Dragon Princes are also among my favorite units. But the only reason to bring them is to park them somewhere in the battlefield with good lighting and admire them lovingly while the Sisters of Avelorn do the actual work.
The High Elves just have good options that focus on their strengths, eliminating the need for using their units which expose their frailty.
Interesting choices, but all argued very well. Silverin Guard gang unite!
Haha, they're definitely a divisive unit. Some players can have so much economy and good micro to avoid needing them, but that doesn't prevent a unit having great utility. Especially in terms of extending the life of a basic army, for any player using a lineholder style, they are the best in this roster.
Bro your channel is so underrated and undersubscribed.
All I can do is to increment that number by 1.
Stoked to have you on board. Cheers for the kind words and support mate!
the way you have structured this is amazing thank you
Appreciate the support mate. Many thanks!
like you have invented a way to make tier lists better I salute you sir
The biggest issue with the High Elf monster units as a whole is that they're basically replaced by your lords and heroes using them as mounts. Fire Mages on Sun Dragons, Nobles on Eagles, Princes and Princesses on Sun and Moon Dragons, most of the legendary lords with their own monstrous mounts, etc. The tier 5 monsters are still fine and all, but the power difference between a Fire Mage on a Sun Dragon and a Star Dragon(disregarding the magic, just talking about the unit itself) just isn't large enough Imho to warrant recruiting them. Also lets not forget they're all still competing with Sisters of Avalon, so you only really want like 2-3 monster units at most in your army, 1 of which is typically your lord(barring a few exceptions like say Tyrion) and another typically your Fire Mage. So the question is do you really need an Arcane Phoenix/Star Dragon on top of the 2 monsters you already have from your lord and hero? Especially if you aren't cheesing the High Elf economy by spamming entrepreneur mages you will have even more mages available to use in your armies and less armies overall(due to a significantly less insane economy without the cheese) so you can bring 2 Fire Mages instead of 1 if you want another monster in your army.
This is pretty on point. I'd argue the Phoenix Units bring more to the table that complements the rest of the roster, compounded by the fact the Dragons make better mounts than standard units, particularly in WH3. The Arcane Phoenix is now their best monster if in the hands of advanced play.
@@ElvenPlotArmour For me it depends on the composition of the rest of the army(Lords, Heroes, Magic) and the synergy found there. I usually go for either a Archmage of Life or Light as my generic lord choices.
If I have a Life Archmage then I forgo the Lore Masters and take three to four Arcane Phoenix. These combine with my Fire Mage will be my highly mobile flying goon squad dropping down on the enemy, tying them up and using the Fire mage's spells to do serious damage to infantry blobs. I like the Phoenix for this setup due to their high fire resistance and small size making it easier to escape.
If I have a Light Archmage to spam Net of Amyntok then I'll use two star dragons with two Lore Masters and a more range heavy army. The net allows me to lock down an enemy and if it's a single entity unit I can use the star dragon's breath attack to delete it completely.
Both a tier list and a quite clear guide to the HE. Thanks for the work put here, I learned quite a few useful things.
Thanks mate. The High Elves Race Guide I have for WH2 is virtually the same for WH3. I think there's a few handy things in there if you're interested.
Cheers!
Fantastic overview of the units! Can't wait to try them all out :D
Have a blast, Immortal Empires closed the gap on most of the tiers too :)
This is THE best High Elves Tier List I’ve seen. Pretty much all placements line up with my experience.
Now a year into this game, and those Elleryan Mounted Archers are really good to have 2 in my army, specifically for their Vangard ability and hiding them off to the side. So good!
Love it, adds some serious flavor and dynamic into those early/mid fights too!
Great video, wasn't sure what to make as my front line so this helps
Thanks mate. If you're newer to TW Battles I recommend my latest video breaking down battlefield roles. Has some handy tips on how to quick read stats that might help inform your decisions! Either way, cheers for watching!
Very useful and very clear - thanks m8!
A lot of work went into this one so stoked to hear.
Cheers for the support mate!
Amazing video! Thank you for the content!
Appreciate the comment mate!
great video, i enjoyed it. Gonna binge watch other tier lists :D
Cheers, thanks mate!
This is a good and informative video. I’d love to see one of the Dark Elves, they are my next campaign and I’m going into them blind!
Thanks mate. Recommend my Dark Elf Playlist, the race mastery guide is among my most proud vids.
Also, here's the Dark Elf Tier List
ua-cam.com/video/zUo6stR_ELg/v-deo.html
Cheers for the comment and sub!
I really like putting my nobles on horseback. They sacrifice some line holding/blob potential but they can intercept and pin down enemy cav so well. Plus, they keep their anti large so they can throw down against chariot mounted enemy heros and monsters
In WH2 I was very anti-horses but in WH3 I actually prefer my nobles on horseback in many cases and think it's a pretty safe bet to have them on horseback as a default. Good comment btw.
I think it would have been cool to hear a bit more about your opinions on mistwalkers, and what are the best mirror abilities for them.
For example today when playing as Yvresse I discovered a neat thing you can do with three or four Skyhawks. When fight starts have them some way in front of your lines. Once enemy gets on their fire range move them to one side, and once lines clash and enemy has thrown their cavalry, have them flank to kill or distrupt enemy ranged units. Since they have 360 firing arch they can do ok ranged damage at the beginning and while moving to flank.
brilliant video!!
Thanks mate, appreciate the support!
Dude !!! You need to keep doing this ! Please, make the same video about another faction (lizardmen ?..), the quality of your work is impressive
Appreciate the comment mate. Thanks for the support!
Love your content bro 🤙🏽
Thanks mate, appreciate it!
Excellent video. I’m just finishing a Nagarythe playthrough
Cheers mate, I put a fair bit of time and testing so my own playstyle doesn't distort it too much. Nagarythe is devastating late game. Enjoy cleaning up ;)
@@ElvenPlotArmour I’ve only ever used shadow walkers and shadow warriors LOL they’re all super high experience so they wreck armies on normal (I’m too much of a dunce for hard or higher, I just graduated from easy)
I wish we could shove our unwanted units into a garrison that already has that type of unit because I get a bit attached to my units that have been leveled up, but I guess that would be too overpowered? I mean it does not increase the number of units in a garrison just replaces the non leveled one with the leveled unit. Some of those archer units still been around a long time in a lot of fights at full strength.
I think your idea has merit, but perhaps have a fixed garrison but instead of a T2 upgrade, you can choose whether it's ranged, cavalry, etc. That'd be a fun way to taylor to the opponent it's guarding!
Great job man
Thanks mate!
Awesome list
Thanks mate, worked long and hard to try and do it justice. Glad you enjoyed!
Your videos are fantastic.
Thanks mate, appreciate the comment and sub!
Great guide
Thanks mate! Cheers for the comment and sub!
Great video
Thanks!
Hey boss love the video will you do an updated Tier List for my bois in Warhammer 3 please?
Pretty much everything is exactly where it was, except I'd move dragon princes up to C Tier. When they get new units I'll release an update :)
at this point i aint surprised iam here again
Glad to have you each time brother haha
Great, amazing, friendly content.
Appreciate you champion!
I totally hope you do the dark elves as well. I definitely need better tips on how to play them
You might be interested to know I'm currently working on my next confed guide?
Hint: cruel, bbq, mommy's boy
@@ElvenPlotArmour that's going to be awesome. My favorite is always gonna be my edge lord malus, but I admit his mechanics really really are underwhelming sometimes
@@Darien_England He's been reworked in the past few months to have less negatives modifiers on his Possession Level to make it easier to play. He's much stronger now (not as top tier as some claim) but it's made his campaign far less painful and more enjoyable. You may have already played it and not been impressed, but I found the rework to be one of my favorite campaigns!
@@ElvenPlotArmour I admit I haven't taken the time to try the campaign again yet as I was practicing other races. I should give it another shot, I admit I dislike how weak the monstrous cav are when in the books those things are so cool.
@@Darien_England I agree, I'd like them to have some "jink" like ability (dmg resist) to help them live longer and/or increase their foot speed. Riding on a giant raptor should 'never' be a bad thing! lol
❤
Cheers for watching.
Any advice on the best late game army composition for Imrik? Currently I have all the legendary dragons in his army and the purple named units (the expensive ones you can recruit instantly, not sure what they are called.). Love your videos man!
Honestly, I come from the camp of either fun or effective. Doomstacking is fun, but is typically inefficient. Your army only needs to be as strong as it needs to "Win". Why crush an army 3-1 when you could expand/defend 3 areas with 3 separate armies? With this philosophy, I find myself running Imrik's with 5 dragons and his fire mage. You can keep the legendary dragons in reserve to drop down and immmediately fix any issue you're in or ride them with Imrik and benefit from his buff/discount. Throw in 1 Loremaster to heal them all with earthblood, 1-2 noble for replenishment (on foot to defend archers), 1-2 silverin guard and the rest archers. I actually keep my original rank 9 archers through to the late game but you may need to trade them out for Sisters of Avelorn if there's too much armour in your way.
A full dragon stack is a good laugh but even with Imrik is expensive, takes ages to win battles and is more clunky to use than many give credence. The above build provides 7 dragons in total (including mounts) and a defensive firebase to fall back to and heal via earthblood. Remembering your fire mage should always deal the most damage and this army should be able to handle everything, is flexible and balances fun and efficiency very well in my eyes ;)
@@ElvenPlotArmour Awesome, thanks a lot man! I eventually got my dragons up to like 80 upkeep each, but the early game damage from being broke af was done haha. About to start a new run with your strat.
I'm sad Dragon Princes are in D. They're gorgeous models.
I know! Sadly cosplay horses as dragons can't compete with dragons!
What do you think about these two purposes for the Eagle Claw Boltthrower?
1) Force the foe to come to your position? It may be that if you have the longest range in a battle, this forces the foe to march on your position? If true, you can choose the best defensive position instead of having to march on theirs.
2) Fire into the infantry-blob your lord creates just in front of your lines?
At first I thought the Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower was sub-par and considered ditching it. But seeing its kill numbers on a lord-blob and reading about "forcing the foe to come to you" I think I want one in each army. :)
Good strat in WH2, especially as it's easy to bait the AI. In WH3 the AI is much smarter. However, this is why I recommend getting mages on horses ASAP. Deal your damage and retreat.
While personally I go through campaigns without hiring one, they are a definitely a solid unit. They answer enemies with shields which shut down elves 'hard'!.
They fit the defensive HE playstyle, but they struggle for glory because basic archers with research + Lord buffs can perform above Tier 3... Sisters of Avelorn take over after here and deal AP with decent melee support to a degree which shows the Bolt Thrower really is a mid tier artillery piece. Good unit, great for Tier 3. It starts losing serious steam against Tier 5 threats.
i use archmage of life, two fire mages on sun dragon mounts, one hand maiden, two star dragons and the rest are sisters of avelorn
Honestly, not much is going to be able to handle that haha
Great video! Hey I'm a bit of a hack player and was wondering if there's any benefit keeping growth buildings once you've maxed out (tier 5/ tier 3) in all the settlements in the region, or should you just destroy them at that stage and build something else?
Thanks mate, no problem. Growth buildings are useless after you get to Tier 5, so yes, when upgrading that main building, trash the other building for either more economy or Hero Capacity :)
Any intetest in doing a tier list including Radious units?
I wonder would it be not OP to buff Sea Guard and shadow warriors a bit in Campaign? Like maybe reduce Sea Guards price a bit, make it so you can get shielded ones just from having a port? And just give a bit more AP, not a lot and not even half of what sisters get. Also maybe just give shadow warriors/walkers a little bit more AP in campaign only, and reduce their melee attack a tad but increase the melee defense a bit? Maybe put the AP for Sea Guards and shadow warriors in a tech tree so it does not effect multiplayer and maybe have it only effect seaguards and shadow warriors? This way, walkers/warriors do not outshine sisters in pure AP dps, but bring enough AP dps with their other things to make you want to bring a couple or more and not just sisters only, like bump them up to solid A tier, And sea guards, they are not going to hold the line near as well as silverin guard so do not overly threaten their role, nor come close to out range dpsing sisters but can still be worth having? I kind of just get bored with having several armies the same exact build.
Another question I have is for Averlorn could one use for some of the tree kin, especially the treemen and less numerous types be as monster lineholder tanks, because they are low entity they might be easier to heal up during and after a battle if you are short of heroes maybe? I mean HE got tons of DPS monsters but maybe only one kind of tanky one, the frostfire phoenix?
Also do you think you have time or would ever cover Regiments of Renown for HE and Maybe DE? Thanks for your replies and I hope your channel gets more attention it really is great.
A lot to unpack here, so apologies if I miss something, please let me know if I fail to address anything. Firstly, High Elves have very clear strengths (missiles) and weaknesses (offensive melee). The meta of WH2 is missiles so this places them strong and they don't need support buildings to build their high tier units like other factions, so this makes me hesitant to buff them them in any way. Honestly, I think they need one nerf: Sisters of Avelorn upkeep increase. Immediately this would force HE players to look to the cheaper options for efficiency. As a legendary player (contrary to popular belief) doomstacks are horribly inefficient - your supply lines mean you only want your armies to be as good as they "need to be". You can conquer twice as much with 2 balanced armies rather than 1 dragon stack.
So, shadow warriors? They're honestly fine where they are imo. One of their lords makes them front and centre and very good so I'm ok with them, they're also a flexible support unit if you so wish. Again, it's Sisters being so cheap is why you don't use them at high levels of play.
LSG with shields are still an incredibly strong and forgiving unit. The reason why I don't recommend them is because of the way the campaign plays out. If Sisters were a T5 unit then you'd get enough use out of LSG to consider them, but T4 being right around the corner, I've never been let down by upgrading my spears with Silverin to support the (excellent) basic archers before moving onto Sisters with future armies.
The truth is, magic does so much damage you could finish a campaign just fine with armies of LSG or Shadow Warriors because Magic should do your heavy lifting and the rest is more support, but Sisters are honestly just OP, and can become broken if you stack the correct traits (making them dominant at both casual and high levels of play). That said, even Legend will say "you can't just hire a stack of sisters and expect it to win everything" because you need to stack 'Resistant' on them, so you have more flexibility than you think. I always try to bring semi-balanced armies and have no trouble on legendary, the need to spam/doomstack is a myth that needs review, but you should always have as elves 9-12 /20 units archers, only 4 melee infantry and the rest heroes/cav/monster support.
This build applies to Avelorn who you absolutely can have those Tree units in your ranks. Just as I mentioned, these units simply aren't as efficient but are perfectly usable (which I again, stress is not a dirty word). High Elf basic spears and archers are simply very effective against other elves (which is what she faces early on). I'd recommend trying this (see my formations video):
x11 archers (in 3 groups as per the vid)
x2 spearmen (up front on each flank)
x2-4 Tree units (behind spears)
x1-4 heroes
Appreciate the comment and sub - hope that helped? haha
@@ElvenPlotArmour I feel really bad about this comment a year later, its so noob, yeah shadow warriors and LSG do have strengths to make up for their lack of AP, I underestimated the strength of vanguard, and fire whilst moving at 180 range, shadowwalkers add poison, and you can get away with mixing an army of all three and just keeping some sisters of avelorn to only shoot at the high armor or units with physical resistance. Shadow Warriors always seem to get good value at the end of my battles because they can keep shooting nearly all the time, you just got to look at what units the enemy has and tailor how you are goign to use them in the upcoming battle. And bolt throwers are good early on for sieges, and to put the hurt on any shield/high armor units and to focus things like Hydras down so they are already weakened a bit when they come into range.
@@MusMasi Nothing to feel bad for brother. You were sharing you experience at the time and that's how we collaborate and learn. Comments are a great way to learn new things and see the general sentiment. Cheers for taking the time!
Great video! I just want to point out that until you get to Sisters, upgrading to archers with light armor *IS* beneficial with so many races having summons that plop right on top of ranged units. As Eltharion I already had TK, Scarbrand and Skaven do it to me in almost every battle.
Hey that's actually a really good point with Eltharion. In Ulthuan there isn't much benefit but in the badlands there are a tonne of enemy summoners and that could help. Summons are such a good tool against defensive gunlines!
I'm new to this game and some of these units only take 1 turn to recruit for me when I first get their building. Is that because of research or skills? eg: Sisters of Avalorn only take 1 turn to recruit
All units have a "base" number of turns, Spearmen is 1, Sisters are 2 turns to recruit. Some faction or Lord traits have means of reducing this recruitment time but it is uncommon. The most common method isn't well known. If you have 10 of the same building, it reduces the Global recruitment by 1 turn (note that is global), but late game this can stack up to easily get 1 turn Sisters of Avelorn, as you will have multiples of this structure to get more handmaidens. Hope that helps, cheers for the comment and sub!
@@ElvenPlotArmour I hadn't subbed yet, but now I have. I always sub when a channel owner replies or takes the time to read my comment - seems fair. I'm enjoying your content so far as it helps newer players. Other channels are for veterans who play on legendary :)
hello its me again hahaha, im eating your videos to learn how to play the darn thing, i played with cheats far too much but i decided to try it for real, your formation op, but the fiog of war cheats that makes the nemesis of each other, greenpigs v dwarves, BGSM elves v elves, morathi just invaded ulthuan and kick everyone until i interviened, and had to win by autoresolve as she had her trinkets and all her spells she obliterated meself to skyhigh without me even moving an unit, dunno how to start the game and had a chance against my nemesis rather than being defensive
One of the best things I can recommend is to not explore out further than you need and to try to have wars on only 1 front if possible. Don't sign alliances unless you're willing to get roped into conflicts and you can typically stay as friendly trade partners unless you plan to confed eventually. This is why defensive alliances usually help. I'm fairly certain removing fog of war does wacky thins to the AI (many mods do). In WH2, Morathi is very aggressive but if you can break 1 or 2 of her armies she'll run out of steam. Don't be affraid to give some small gifts to Alith if he's hurting! Regarding autoresolve ... it can be a strange beast haha. Sounds like it's coming together though!
On normal battle difficulty I found swordmasters to be insanely good. I never used them in wh2 since sisters did so well. But it I.E my swordmasters are tying kills with my sisters in every fight and barely taking damage its nuts
They perform much better now. Martial prowess got buffed to stay active until 25% remaining health (was 50% prior) so HE are now better in melee now, but that also means so are Silverin Guard and their cheaper units. What stops Swordmasters jumping up to B is Sisters also got buffed by virtue of magic damage now bypassing all physical resist. But would I now hire 1, maybe 2 in my balanced armies? It now can form part of a sound strategy and more flexible builds can now be played which is a win for everyone :) Cheers for sharing!
this is a great video but in my opinion shadow walkers dont deserve B tier vs lothern sea guard. they have great range and the poison attacks you didnt mention. good in melee where they hit with poison too. the poison + 360 shooting makes them by far the best kiting unit in the game, beating out waywatchers thanks to the arrow effect. they have similar decent melee stats like sisters as well. also, treemen in alarielle's army deserve B at the very least. having easy access to heal spells makes them extremely good and tanky even without giving them a lot of buffs. other than those two, i agree with most of it and i enjoyed the vid.
Hi, new player here. Does this tier list still apply to WH3? As far as I can tell from your more recent videos, the meta shifted away from ranged dominance and allows for melees
This list applies 100% to WH3. I wouldn't change anything, what was strong before is still strong.
Sorry for the late reply!
@@ElvenPlotArmour No worries, most tubers just don't respond on old videos like this, you're the best :D
@@1001airstrikes I try haha hope it's useful!
I think you over estimate the loremaster a bit too much since the lack of mount especially in an Imrik's dragon spam army where it basically needs to avoid fights at all cost and to be your anchor.
I'd say the Loremaster is one of the most underrated units in the entire game. You'll have a tonne of these and it gives Earthblood to your armies. This alone is enough to make something A Tier when you put it on a good offensive infantry unit (something the HE are notoriously bad at). Even playing as Imrik, a stack of dragons is fun, but it's not efficient even with half stacks you'll be at the point you can autoresolve all your battles. having 1-2 Loremaster to even just hiding to heal them is arguably more utility than another 2 dragons. Plus, you need some land units so you don't lose ;)
@@ElvenPlotArmour i still feel like I prefer to have a life mage being the ground unit and put them on a horse so they can run away if discovered
My White Lions sadge ;___;
If you want to throw a unit in your army it won't hurt you ;)
What about the 20% physical resistance on the Phoenix guard?
20% is epic, but it comes at a time where you are in the campaign. Much of your combat will be sieges which melee infantry won't contribute to as much as sisters or monsters. Phoenix Guard can be situationally very strong, but by Tier 5 (remember you get the Arc Phoenix from this buiding...) you'll have several instances of T3 and T4 buildings so you'll be able to globally recruit several alternatives better and have the heroes to gain the traits you need. Also, as much as I love halberds, the H.E. are obsessed with spears and most buffs go to them. 20% physical resist is boss but your economy will be so strong by this point you will have outgrown a heavy lineholder approach. But if you want to have these guys in your armies because you're a fan, they are still usable. 4 of these to guard your sisters isn't going to be a min/max strategy, but if someone said it's a stupid idea I'd disagree. Just because there are better choices doesn't mean all sub-optimal is bad. Like all things in C Tier, if you love it and want to make it work, you can still win on legendary without exploits, you just need to know what you're doing and the ways to make that unit work.
@@ElvenPlotArmour yea hamstrung by being close ranged even with this bonus. I think one Phoenix guard and one sword master together with two silverin guard is good fun for semi roleplaying. Feels like it's what should be put in a balanced army led by someone like Tyrion.
Thank you for the detailed breakdown.
@@jellydamgood Mate, that's honestly perfectly workable around the moment you just reach Tier 5. Tyrion's 1/2 price Silverin makes this even more affordable. Remember, you'll be facing garrisons against troops of mixed levels so there's plenty to carve up. As long as infantry are there to protect and not spearhead you still have an effective HE army. Until very late, the core concept of 4 infantry 11 archers with characters/flanking units is a roleplaying setup that serves me well on Legendary every time, much later than many would expect.
@@ElvenPlotArmour hohoh I shall have to try this setup then.
With tech, skills and a diamond guardian phoenix you can get 45 or 50% physical resist on Phoenix Guard. Takes abit of work, but worth in imo.
I would have put Rangers at a higher tier and investigated why. It looks as if the game may have been patched recently (?) or perhaps one of my utility mods behave very strange (?) because Rangers in a brand new Tyrion-campaign (EDIT used just for reference) have different stats than your video at 4:50
- Have 120 units and the same Hp as the Spearmen stack
- Have 10 less armour than Spearmen and no shields but instead 20% dodge (that affects both non-magic missiles and melee as I understand)
- Melee attack 28 (instead of 20)
- Melee defence 20 (instead of 24)
- Speed 40 (instead of 33)
- Weapon strength 28 (base 21 and 7 AP) plus 8 extra damage versus infantry
- Charge bonus 18
- Plus they are the cheapest unit to maintain
Early game I really like to have 1-2 Rangers to flank foes attacking my spearmen. They act as my cheap "cavalry" and also damage dealers to foe infantry.
Appreciate the level of effort into your insight. Rangers are honestly lucky to hold onto a C Tier and can only be considered B Tier against certain matchups, and are D Tier against even more.
The way you're using them by counter charging into the enemy flanks is excellent and this can give good results... but seeing as your Tyrion, you're fighting other elves which aren't great in melee. Try this against orcs, dwarves, etc and they'll deal damage, but that 20 melee defence and low HP will see them drop like flies and the spearmen will last far longer here. This offensive infantry role is much better performed by the excellent HE characters (Nobles, Loremasters, etc) who deal meaningful damage and can also hold the line. Whatever damage your Rangers are dealing, master you archers who can multiply it several times and are good against ALL early threats, not just the soft ones. Also, once your enemy reaches Tier 3, those rangers are going to be useless, while your spearmen will still be excellent in doing what elven infantry should be doing: defending your archers. I hope this didn't come across as dismissive! 1-2 Rangers in an early army to counter charge can keep the cost down, but they won't deliver anything the famed archer+staunch spearline can't.
Rangers are still usable for 2 reasons: large blob and cheap.
@@ElvenPlotArmour Thank you and I largely agree on all. :)
I changed my view to; Rangers are less-good after higher tier units are introduced but it's fair to compare them mostly by their role very early game. So IMHO 1-2 Rangers still contribute well during the important initial expansion "fighting other elves" and conquering Saphery asap.
I play Eltharion (the Tyrion reference above was only to get their stats at campaign start) and use 1-2 as flankers, glass cannon DPS or chasers. I like their upkeep of 100 gold (meaning they are your cheapest way to improve your power-balance for better diplomacy), large unit size and weapon strength of 36 vs infantry (nearly DOUBLE the archer's damage). Eltharion recruits them at +3 ranks (which is not the case for archers). In a crisis they can also help spread out the damage your spearmen take (something the archers have problem with) - which otherwise can slow you down when a couple of spearmen units are beaten so badly you need to combine them or rehire new (to keep up the initial speedy map-expansion).
On a personal note I find they make battles more varied and fun at start (when you can only recruit three unit types; archers, spearmen and rangers). :)
@@littlegreen6355 Really enjoyed this response. You hit the nail on the head. If you want to use them for fun and variety? Well they're cheaper so go nuts, it won't hurt you. Just be aware against the wrong enemy or later on this won't work.
You're talking to a guy who deliberately plays varied armies that don't min/max to prove you can have fun on legendary. Sounds like some enjoyable battles!
I prefer using the archer lord type to the mage. They have so much versatility, and some really good archer boosting traits.
Definitely stronger than the Prince, the biggest issue of the Princess isn't that she's bad, it's the H.E. Arch-Mages are insanely overpowered and get Arcane Conduit Level 1 (which is crazy). Combine this with strong mount options and the terrible combat stats are largely negated. Princesses have some great Upkeep reduction traits which certainly have utility on the higher difficulties and they are also just cool. They're just competing against one of the best non-LL's in the game when they are coupled with Light/Fire/High Magic. Thanks for the feedback btw, I'm inspired to raise an Ardent Princess in the next stream ;)
Love the content, but it seems to me you overrate things in a lot of your vids. Sea Guard with shields, Reavers for example here (both should be down a tier), but also in other vids where you give factions super high ratings when they seemed undeserved. Such as Malekith getting a high diplo score when all non-DE essentially hate him, making his diplo very difficult outside of confederations. His diplo should prob be closer 3 stars, not 4 or 5.
Anyway, just my 2 cents. Thanks for the great content :)
Thanks mate. Discussion round these things is great and important, so cheers for the input. I'll share my own thoughts on the points you shared.
Regarding LSG w/shields, I agree I never use them but this is only due to Sisters being nearly available while spears/archers are still dominant. In a game where every shielded unit is good LSG are a great unit, but I do say here that "with DLC they're only a solid unit" but without DLC they prove they can still hang well for a T3 unit. Reavers w/bows can perform very well if you have the patients to micro and cycle charge. Even a single unit vangard deployed vs any enemy with artillery can have value, particularly since the HE may not have any artillery in the early game. Cycle charges and missiles in the rear are good for leadership shock rather than damage.
Regarding Diplomacy Rating, I try to keep videos quick and to the point, so I maybe don't make it clear enough. The diplomacy rating is more a measurement of the faction's ability to control its engagements rather than their use of the diplomacy screen. You're right, other dark elves do hate Malekith, but even on legendary, unless you don't have enough military they'll never declare war on you. Dark Elves tend not to attack other Dark Elves. On the flip side, other races are very keen to at least 'join' wars with Dark Elves. This allows the Dark Elves to be very effective at divide and conquer and can usually score non-aggression and trade under the right circumstances. Lastly, confederations are a factor here and Malekith has very strong confederation opportunities with Morathi and some minor factions being the only obstacle. Malekith's geopolitical position simply allows him to dictate his wars and has many options to control his fronts and can confederate any underdogs (Crone, Rakarth, Lokhir) at will.
Please feel free to counter any points, this can all make us better players :) thanks again mate!
blob inf up and heal them? it cant restore entities so it doesnt do anything for your losses in campaign, after u won the battle.
Heal them during combat instead
Group Hug is a term I use for characters, typically, to heal them up post battle. The main point I'm trying to push here is Loremasters are incredibly overlooked when they make Life Mages nearly redundant and free you up to take different lores of magic. Agree healing infantry isn't going to help much haha
@@ElvenPlotArmour
Yes they seem awesome. Just dont focus on healing inf after the battle...
Btw im really strugging with imrik economy after i got caledor. Not sure how best to build the economy and which buildings i should put where...(wh2)
Im used to playing only vampire counts...
@@cobrazax Imrik's economy is notoriously bad in WH2. In short, Entertainment building in each capital, tradable or trinket makers where possible in minor settlements. Taking ports will give good wealth. I recommend my HE Mastery Guide. I might be biased but it's excellent ;)
ua-cam.com/video/ZjYCLy8wgm4/v-deo.html
@@ElvenPlotArmour
Thanks.
I do these as u said as that seems to be a smart way...but not sure about how to deal with the high cost of having an army in caledor when u got low relations with high elves, when u barely get any money from there.
Also not sure about embassies. Thought of putting one in every minor settlement that has no resource or port...
Should i keep units like sea guard? Got several at caledor...
Even got a princess with upkeep discount for all archer unit types. Still not nearly enough.
Also i dont see how i can build the inf and cav buildings...if they are even needed.
Not sure if i need the Phoenix building too except to recruit them or vs corruption. Same with the blacksmith building as it doesnt seem useful at all.
Hi does this need a redo for WH3?
Nope. Everything operates the same in WH3 for the High Elves. Keep yourself centred around S, A and B Tier and you'll have a strong campaign!
@@ElvenPlotArmour Thanks for responding and agree
Why you hate eagle claw bolt thrower 😢
Haha I don't hate it, I just consider it mid and consider it among the HE less flexible options. Having, say, a phoenix affords you the ability to harass and disablle their artillery and backline while moving your archers up to deal you heavy damage. Sitting back and shooting will work in many cases, but many factions dominate high elf artillery, meaning phoenix and heroes on mounts provide a counter. If they don't have artillery arrows and magic should win the day.
TLDR: HE Artillery can work but in the grand scheme it doesn't solve any problems that can't be solved by units that contribute more flexibility.
A mage on a sun dragon takes a bit to level but is a sure way to get siege attacker on those secondary armies, along with sacrifice to vaul until you get those levels.
The way you pronounce “melee”, I was genuinely wondering who the fuck is “M’lay” for at least first 5 minutes of your video 😁