it probably would have been brilliant if they used it for an off-putting and psychological horror animation since it's so disturbing, but other than that it's just weird and out of place
Pausing in between frames and saying it's bad animation is like pausing a video of someone talking in a frame where he is in the middle of changing his face expression and saying he is physically deformed
You yourself are guilty of everything Ajay pointed out fans are doing in this video. You fucking hypocrite. Need examples? Okay vegeta's 2 left hands: in-between animation goku and beerus funny expressions: exaduration Need I go on?
When people say that pain vs Naruto “looks like loony tunes” they are complimenting the animation because loony tunes is animated better than 90% of today’s animated shows
You know why people unfairly criticize animation for being bad? It's because they're obsessed with finding anything that could be precieved as a flaw so they can be negative about it. And humans in general seem to find amusement in negativity.
The notion "omg people just wanna be negative" is absolutely absurd. And it almost always applies to (big shock) series or things you want to defend. But you never see the things people are generally positive about. "They just wanna be negative" is a cop out to criticism I see very often in the anime community and it needs to stop. Its not because of Plasma's characterization of his ideological opponents as he presents it. It's because these guys just don't get animation.
As an amateur animator who has gotten migraines from how rampant this crap this in the community i just got to say Bless you for taking the time to straighten this topic out. Keep up the good work Ajay.
You are right. But the transition from the regular artstyle to the battle was poorly done and you can see the drastic change In art style and animation.
NANI! Yeah. I remember someone said "what good animation" at a frame (in a kinda sarcastic way cuz Goku's face looked hideous) and Im like "THAS NOT ANIMATION WTF"
MiffMiff if by any chance youve watched one piece would you call the newer episodes animation not as good as the old ones or the art style. Cause i just feel like somethings missing from the newer one piece episodes
Oh my gooood THANK YOU! That wasn't at all what I was expecting, but I'm glad that was the case. As a professionally trained animator, it drives me insane to see people pass around screenshots of smears and call them "mistakes," or people saying the animation is bad because they don't like the show or style. Thank you for speaking out against this, it makes animators like me VERY happy.
Fuzzy Samurai People are being educated a lot more on animation now, I remember just a few years ago anime would be criticized for bad animation when it’s just an image..
I never understood the logic of posting a *single frame* as evidence of bad animation. Do these people not know what an animated gif is? Also, there's a huge difference between deforming a character, through the means of stretch/squash and not being able to stay on model.
When squash and stretch gets too exaggerated though, it can detract from the viewer experience. The scene where Pain gets decked in the face? That was good. The face and head shape warp, but it's not an overwhelming and bizarre amount. The line where he yells "My pain is greater than yours?" That one was off imo. Even with the use of squash and stretch, most anime will try to keep facial structure recognizable. The fact that each frame is a new drawing is impressive to say the least, but there is such a large difference between many of them that it starts to feel like a completely different genre. One Punch Man s1 has some incredible combat choreography with squash and stretch but they cleverly hide the more noticeable imperfections by pulling away from closeups (easier to see warped body the closer they are to the viewer perspective) and combining it with brighter colors (like lights from attacks, you can cover a stretching body part by overlaying some fancy light over it). Demon Slayer also has a ton of squash and stretch (particularly with Zenitsu) but ufotable also does a good job animating it in such a way that your eyes barely register it. The most likely explanation is that the animation techniques have just drastically improved, the Pain arc in the anime was some 10 years ago or so. A lot of modern anime implement squash and stretch really well.
i'm an animation student, i approve of this video especially the in between part. ive tried using realistic concept of motion in my animation and the result is meh. never underestimate in betweens, if used wisely it would boost the expression, motion and power of an animation.
One thing is to animate sticks and circles, but it is really beautiful when you can pull off realistic art with fluid animation, it can be done, like the Battle Angel Alita Ovas
Bad art sets the foundation for the animation though.. Even if the animation is adequate, if the character models and independent frames look bad then the whole thing is just going to look bad in general
+Flamegirl I always say this: Theres 95% bad anime and 5% good anime. Same for many other things. Its your work to find the golden examples, and these will give you an amazing experience. Namely, Berserk, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Hellsing, or Attack on Titan.
"... a bizarre hatred that their cartoons *dare* to look like cartoons." INB4 someone whines, "AnImE iS nOt CaRtOoNs" Anime *are* cartoons, they're just not *western* cartoons. "Cartoons", in this context, refers to "animation". Hell, "anime" is even taking from the word "animation".
@@tingispingis Many anime fans already know this and rarely see someone who is unaware of this. And you seem to be looking for trouble by saying "Don't tell them they will get angry" in order to get an angry person to attack you in the comments.
@@ahmedpro_gamer520 he said "weebs" , a "weeb" is like an anime fan who is so into it that he/she thinks he/she is japanese and that the only culture in Japan is anime :P
They didn't have to deform his face to the point of not knowing if he was really a human or some type of alien bizarre creature, good animation can go along with well drawn anatomically drawings which in fact would have made that scene much better, anyone can animate deformed figures
@@cardosutoro9 I think it was a way to show the audience how neither of these fighters was anything close to human. remember pein is piloting a corpse and much like how naruto's skin melts off from how much power he wields. pein is moving so fast that the flesh is actually creating drag
In all honesty, it just looks retarded, but in the best way possible. To play Devil's advocate towards myself though, a very large portion of the fight from that point onward was slightly exaggerated, slightly maybe being an understatement until the fight slowed down a short while later, and while I wholeheartedly think that face is the most stupid funny shit I've ever seen, it still took skill to animate, like, a lot of it, same goes for the rest of the fight, the stretching of the face and other extremities does an amazing job of portraying motion despite or maybe because of the absurdity, and in all honesty, that fight is still probably my second favorite fight in the entirety of Shippuden's disastrous life cycle. Hope this was insightful in some way, and have a fantastic day.
Just try to explain them how it works, I was an idiot who commented that kind of stuff because I didn't know how the anime industry works. Now I have an idea thanks to Ajay and I cringe with my old comments, but the point is I learned.
Actually though! I'm no student, but I try my best to use all these principals in my animation. I never upload it because I'm actual trash, but still. I get animation and the principals. But everyone criticizes it bc they don't get it. It's actually kinda sad
+Mr. X What do you mean you wish Americans would push for this kind of standard? I've seen plenty of amazing current American animation. Also, when you say old animation, how far back are you going? 30s? 50s? 80s? Also, in animation, a bad drawing is not a bad drawing if the bad drawing was intentionally added in skillfully to add to the movement.
As a person learning how to animate. Naruto vs Pain's fight is VERY VERYYYY well done. Yes they took the stretch and squash (I hope I said that right) to the extreme, but anyone can agree that the battle's choreography and dynamics is very difficult to do for an animator. You can clearly see the professionalism of the animators by making it flashy but not too difficult for the eye to follow.
As another animator in training (Got a few videos up, not much, but it's honest work) I agree with your point of view, but Pain's face still haunts me to this day ever since I saw it. Seriously, the animation looked smooth, fast as hell but easy to understand. 3 Great feats, each hard to achieve, together almost impossible. But holy shit his face.
Indeed. A lot of the shown examples are really just design and/or other style choices. If anyone wants to see _actual bad_ animation, just pop over for one of my ridiculously pre-beginner-level animation exercises on my channel. I guarantee it'll help make every other "bad" animation you've ever seen look like a masterpiece.
"i didn't hear it that means you haven't either and are lying" fuck you U562 I also saw people say Mob Psycho 100 has horrible animation. It totaly doesn't, it's one of the best animated anime i'd ever seen
As someone with animation-related career experience and education, this video rings 99% true to my ears. (And the only reason it's not 100% is just precaution -- I didn't actually _disagree_ with anything at all.) I've learned time and time again that looking at individual frames barely tells you anything about the animation itself -- as an inherently time-based medium, it _cannot_ be judged meaningfully without time factored in. Heck, animation in general is all about the illusion of *motion* ... how can anyone honestly think disregarding the *motion* across frames (or, at least, conveyed in a single frame) will yield good critique? Here's how I think of squash & stretch (often shorted to "squetch") and smears: it's motion blur. That's all. Well, squetch also significantly conveys weight and impulse, like the video said, but when we talk about the "fluidity" of motion then squetch basically contributes like motion blur does. Motion blur is usually described in terms of why it _happens_ in cameras, but I consider that completely beside the point (albeit technically useful). See, you can't really describe human vision in terms of frames. Visual perception is a hell of a lot more complicated than camera tech, even if there are lots of similarities. One of these complexities is that your eyes "compress" what they see _before_ sending it to your brain. after photons trigger photoreceptor cells in your retina, they pass information to _two_ layers of other cells before it actually leaves your eye. That's a lot of lost information, but that's okay--your brain only really cares about motion speeds that we can physically react to. Most anything faster looks kinda blurry. _Blurry._ Due to _motion._ *_Motion blur._* Basically, I'm saying that motion blur isn't _just_ a consequence of camera shutter speed, as is often explained. As a visual phenomenon, _it's part of how we see._ Don't believe me? Just wave your hand around quickly. If you don't follow your hand with your eyes, you'll see a blurry smear as its motion path. If you _do_ keep your eyes on your hand, everything _behind_ will smear as your vision moves instead -- and maybe the hand too still, if you're moving it quickly enough. If you wave your hand regularly back and forth, you'll see the end positions fairly clearly but only a blur in between. There you go: motion blur in normal human vision. (Though, just like how we don't see in individual "frames per second," our perceptual motion blur isn't quite as straightforward as camera motion blur, but it's at least pretty heavily analogous) But here's the thing: we see the blur because our eyes _did_ see something moving between the "key" positions (e.g. we _do_ see the hand between the "endpoints" of a rapid wave). So our perceptual motion blur depends on something _actually_ moving, not just... teleporting. But animation isn't actually motion -- it's the _illusion_ of motion. You're using still images to trick our brains into perceiving smooth motion. So compared to reality, animated things _are_ teleporting... somewhere between 20 and 60 times per second. The information that our eyes and brains "compress" into a blur _isn't there._ So to _really_ achieve the smooth motion we perceive every day, animators must _add_ the "motion" information to frames where our eyes would normally see a blurred motion. Hence smears and squetch: they mimic the way we perceive moving objects, and are strongly analogous to motion blur. If you have a problem with non-emphasized smears, squetch, etc. (i.e. those that only last a frame) you probably haven't actually seen animation _without_ those things. Things look _incredibly_ stiff without _some_ kind of substitute for motion blur to give our eyes that motion information.
My god. This video was SO cathartic I couldn't help but smile. I'm not going to lie: I expected it to be a defense piece on pure animation while sidelining common complaints from viewers. It wasn't. You broke down each step of the debate elegantly, from the definition of bad animation, to tweening and in-betweens, to exaggeration, to stiffness, to how absolutely jarring good art and horrendous animation can look. The fact that you didn't shy away from discussing why some fantastic animation styles might come across as jarring to viewers if not presented well enough, or how sharp transitions between styles can take someone out of the experience, sold this video completely. This was a masterpiece in my book.
Thanks for this video, dude! I've been animating for nearly 12 years, and these kinds of useless complaints always irritate me lol. I've been wanting to make a similar video for some time... now I don't have to! :D
Josue Lugo i would say rather this about you than op, who has written something quite good, esp. when compared to your...comment I suggest that next time that you be more careful and pay attention to yourself firstly before writing a comment.
didn't realize people were critical of that moment of pain vs naruto. the distortion of his face is unsettling and surreal and makes it feel more visceral and impactful.
It was the exact opposite of that. If you want that feeling watch Sasuke vs Orochimaru in Part 1. Similar animation, Better choreography, atmosphere. everything that fight has; Naruto vs Pain the Looney toons doesn't. The animation for Naruto 6 tails vs Pain was Amazing. some of the smoothest I've seen from Naruto but it had the worst direction and Choreography. It's why we never got it again. They essentially said "fuck the tone of the scenes, the character choices and weight of the fight. Let's just do stuff. "
Were they even animating humans? Its like they asked a 6 year old kid to draw the characters and then they put them as models to create the animation, good animation can go along with well drawn characters, it doesnt have to be like that
@@Lewtable This is the comment I'm glad I found. I personally like it, but what you stated was definitely a set back. The way Pain's arms flail like Tobi's just takes the seriousness out of the fight (mostly becuase Tobi was not serious), alot of their movements were reminiscent of drunk Lee's and Tobi's both of which were "goofy" characters. Besides that I love the fight.
The Pain vs Naruto fight scene is actually one of the best in the entire series. I remember when I first watched it and although the style is completely different to usual it really enhances the sense that Naruto has lost all control of his power.
yes I think that was the point of it. I watched it when it first came out and my friend and I would always watch the episode the day of release and discuss it afterwards. I remember thinking how amazing it was and then I talked to him and he was like "yeah it was a cool fight but the animation was shit" and I was thinking "what?"
Although the episode was impactful for the series and story, the animation was off because the structure of the anatomy wasn’t successful therefore it fell apart.
Best scenes??? Seriously? Kakashi vs kakuzu... itachi vs sasuke.... naruto vs sasuke 1.... naruto vs sasuke 2... Orochimaru vs 3rd... jiraya vs pain....hell even lee vs gaara looked better than that... the pain fight was soooo over the top for no reason. It was more over the top than the tailed beast fight during the war. It was just such a drastic change from everything else in the series, even the fighting leading up to it was full of bad cuts which took away from a lot of the great moments people were looking forward to from the manga... I mean the scene where 6 tails grabs a boulder and hammers pain like a nail into the ground 3-4 times?!? Seriously? Naruto just went rage mode, this is supposed to be an intense fight, and it was cheapened by terrible art and “funny” fight scenes... I looked forward to that fight for a long time and we got something that looked like it came from another anime entirely
Den mark thats fucking stupid there are millions of peaces of art that display movement or are at least meant to be depictions of action, but to say that the differentiation between animation and art whould be a lack of movement whould be an incorrect one P.s. there is no difference art is art no matter what
*pieces, no one stated what you are saying, I simply meant that the op of this comment meant something, how many times do you see a piece of art like painting speak? animation is an art but different to those, it follows different principle. If you find it hard to find the difference maybe take time to do a research.
Animation: basically, the rapid succession of images (also known as frames) to create the illusion of movements. Art: how the animators drew the frames It'd be nice if people actually knew the difference between the two before screaming bad animation.
Personally, I feel what makes an animated sequence great is "What is their intent? And was it well executed?" For example, the intent of a fight scene is to give a feeling akin to a rush of adrenaline to the viewer. If that is the intent, and the scene falls short of having the viewer vicariously feel the blows being exchanged, then it has failed. As for an example of well executed intent, Mob Psycho 100. When Mob and Reigen confront their client's stalker, the intent was to create a feeling of discomfort in the viewer. In order to do so, we are given a close-up shot of the stalker. As a result, it gives the same effect as someone who is too close in your personal bubble. Therefore, recreating the same feelings that the victim would experience. Furthermore, they emphasize that feeling by somewhat going outside of the show's style and used rotoscope animation. (All while still looking like it belongs in the same show.) By going in a more realistic direction, in terms of style, it becomes uncanny. Because it so closely resembles an actual person, it becomes inseparable from reality and further immerses the viewer in that moment. Whereas, had they stuck closely to the show's normal art style, the viewer could easily detach themselves. Therefore, making scene less unnerving to them
Do people seriously think Sasuke vs Oro in part 1 was an example of bad animation in Naruto? That shit was beautiful. Pulling one frame of animation out of that scene and using that to call it bad is disrespectful. Especially when it comes from idiots that don't know anything about animation.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for making this video. When the Pokemon Sun and Moon anime trailer was released, people took inbetweens of the show and said it looked lazy and had bad animation, which is just flat out wrong.
I love that you mentioned the Naruto v Pain arc. So much misconception with that episode. Btw since you did a video on what is BAD animation. Do one for GOOD?
I ,as a naruto fan myself, dislike the animation style of this episode because it looks so out of place. This kind of animation would maybe fit in a comedic scene or anime but not in a serious fightong scene. Also they just changed the animation from one episode to the other in a important part of the story. I think most people dislike the animation because of this reasons, but its just my opinion and I dont say that the animation is bad in general, its just that it doesnt fit in.
Konosuba is a great example of a show that has good animation that people who don't know what they're talking about saying it has bad animation due to its high use of squash and stretch. What people said was "bad" I saw as one of the most expressive animes out there.
Maybe it has quite a great animation, but the show is quite shit, I know it is a parody of anime in another world+RPG or something... but for a long time even when i watched some clips i found funny on the internet i couldn't help but feel stupid while watching full episodes. To watch it i felt like i had to get rid of my logic, even then many times i wanted to punch a character for being such an asshole. T-T
the pain fight is one of my all time favorite anime fights of all time. you really feel the momentum and action of the environment. it feels like its on an entirely different level than anything up to that point.
Pain Arc is literally the best arc in the series and one of the best in shounen animes. In this arc the plot and emotions really evolved from dull ninja life to a god like enemy who seems untouchable, the topics evolved from just beeing hokage to pain, war and how to finally achieve true peace, Jiraiyas Background story, the prophecy, the plottwist behind the pseudonym Pain, Narutos first acknowledged loss of the only real family he ever had in his lonely life and how Naruto, Nagato and Jiraiya all are linked by destiny. Naruto vs Pain was one of the best fights hands down. Naruto as funny and kind character loaded with hatred and revenge that is challenged by Nagatos philosopy about Pain and peace that makes Naruto speechless. I really loved the exaggeration because it perfectly fit the final shit is going down mood. It visualised how much raw strength, speed and emotion on both side were involved in that fight contrary to what we have seen in Naruto to this point.
the only scene of that fight i didn't like was when Pain yells "my pain is still far greater than yours." i respect how much work they put into it. every single frame is a new drawing. but i think they went too hard with drawing the face. it contorts so drastically between each frame. the bit where he gets punched in the face by naruto was done way better because his head shape didn't warp nearly as hard. the punch makes it look way more brutal
It’s too easy to confuse style and quality, I guess. A good spongebob scene will never fit inside a Dragon Ball story (ok...challenge accepted), but that doesn’t mean the Spongebob scene is badly animated.
hes not wrong. i finally learned what tweens are and understand animation better. i already knew that stills weren't bad animation but i still had a bit of trouble puting what bad animation is to words
The first thing that came into my head was all the people who talked bad about Psycho 100's animation when they knew that was the artist's style. Very well done in saying what had to be said, most of those who criticize most probably can't even draw
HammerBroGH see that's where I disagree. The odd art style just makes everything feel more sureal. Not to mention can you even begin to watch the op or the Ed without acknowledging that it has incredible animation? How everything flows from scene to scene in that vibrant op with all of its references. And the Ed! The guy who made that was hired out of college for a reason. Its done in a style I've never even seen animated before or since and its absolutely breathtaking. Yes the anime is ugly but when slapped with these crazy colors and damn good storytelling, it easily makes my top 10 fave animes of all time. In fact I'm looking forward to season two of Mob more than One's other famous anime series One Punch Man. I have zero problem with trading a slightly ugly style for the characters and heart One brings into his stories.
Your right. Mob Psycho's animation isn't bad. Making the animation and art style look stupid fits Mob Psycho's story and it makes the jokes more funny. Plus if you watch Mob's fight scenes, the stupid art style and animation fits really well. Especialy Mob's battle against Koyama.
I've been arguing for Pain vs Naruto being one of the most well animated fights for a while now. Thank you so much for making a video about this stuff!
The animation isn't bad but most people still think it looks like trash regardless of the issue or lack their of. They shouldn't have gone with that style imo
I don't understand people who comment "the Pain vs Naruto fight was horribly animated" because, wow, when you actually LOOK at the way it was animated, it blows me away with how much intensity and speed they could portray through animation! I mean, it was incredibly fluid, and if you take your mind off of "why do they look weird" to "holy crap how fast and strong are they to be looking this way," it really sucks you into that scene. Everything was so impactful and the raw power really shines through. Really, though, I had rewatched it for nostalgia on UA-cam and was greatly disappointed of the comments. You go on some video with a million views that is the Pain vs Naruto fight clipped, you'll scroll down and see people criticizing it. I haven't checked back since, it was too annoying.
jellojyles It's funny how I need to change my mindset so that I would be able like that scene. Granted, faces being distorted on fights with such intensity makes sense and I do like it, it makes the action feel real. But this one is just plain ugly. Sorry, good or bad animation, Pain vs Naruto is just too diificult to look at and not laugh at the goofiness while at it.
people have uniornically commented that it "either looks like Looney Toons* (Tunes) or like it was done in a few minutes overnight." That's like calling something "either a Ferarri to a mini wooden car made in some dude's basement overnight"
Xuân Duy Phan Trịnh you can have personal preference eating rocks but it aint food. Fact is you cant change styles abruptly. Kakadhi obito fight was similar style to pain naruto but less over thrme top. It more animated but not necessarely better
[GD] Annoe well it's inevitable that people would notice these frames, they're supposed to show motion , but for the regular simpleton pausing in some frames , they see them as animators being lazy.
@Gustavo Vieira There's a fucking difference between saying the art is garbage and stupidly saying the animation is garbage when its as fluid as ever you fucking fucktard
never really understood why people said the Naruto vs Pain fight was badly animated. I think it's one of the best anime fights in anime history (personal opinion of course) The way it was drawn just makes it seem so much more impactful and makes you realise that those guys that are moving at extreme speeds are still human.
I would say its because the in-between frames look bad to people, this fight especially because compared to most other animation its very exaggerated. I don't see why people think that though, you don't really notice in-between frames and in the end it actually improves the animation because it adds that nice impact feel.
SpeedrunsTeddy Naruto y N.shippuden your fight are ugly,bad and mediocres in my opinión. Your Art is trash,ugly. Naruto Art>>>>>>>>> Naruto shippuden . Naruto art,animation was decente,but shippuden is shit,trash
SpeedrunsTeddy The entire fight isn't bad, it's just that the squash and stretch wasn't executed very well and broke the immersion of viewers. Tldr: the one scene involving pain looks weird, lmao.
It's really jarring actually, because the first hour or so of that fight was drawn/animated differently. After the nine tails comes out is when the characters are suddenly made out of rubber.
It seems like all of these baseless criticisms made about the animation were made by people who knew anything about animation to begin with. For that I can give them the benefit of the doubt but then again, one should avoid talking about stuff they dont know, so confidently.
Another thing to mention is, animation is pretty hard. I mean they are professionals, and there are dozens of professional eyes staring at this stuff over and over for a living, but they are still human. They also have a time table to keep up with because people can't wait for the next episode. I think they are allowed to take small shortcuts and f*ck up every once in a while, as long as the animation stays at a more or less consistent level. The animation needs to be able to hold up as a perfessional product made by *HUMAN BEINGS!* Humans are not capable of making everything perfect. Also, we the internet, are full of people who have a larger ammount of time to spend on searching every pixel of every frame for imperfections. Also it could be a deliberate choice for legitamite reasons. Though still, call out acctually bad animation. Like Dynamic Chord. That is shameful. I hope that that they did not hire a professional animator. That had to be on purpose. That is bad. Also if you want your cartoons to look realistic the whole time, why do you watch cartoons? Especially ones with supernatural powers? Do you hate fun too? It's a cartoon, let it have a little bit of leeway. I hate writing, *WHY DO I ALWAYS MAKE SUCH WORDY COMMENTS?!?!?!* I need a life...
Philip Hockenbury To be fair, there's a difference where a company is having a hard time, to where it's just lazy. Toei is an example, before they were just lazy as hell, but they're keeping it back up due to all the complaints.
How? A condescending artist making excuses for bad animation under the guise of "I'M AN ARTIST SO MY OPINION IS SUPERIOR TO YOURS" is in no way a proper rebuttal of someone thinking that animation is awful. Disregarding the fact that I think all of Gurren Lagann is awful, episode 4 had so much fucking awful animation that I was stunned by how bad it was. No amount of condescending artist lawyering will convince me it wasn't garbage. It looked bad, I don't care for your excuses, they won't make it look any better.
the naruto community completely baffled me, i was told multiple times that pain vs naruto is a terribly animated fight, and when i finally started watching i embraced for the worst, only to be met with one of the most fun, exaggerated and dynamic fights. After that i stopped listening to what they say.
Regarding the Pain fight, I've always conceded that the animation itself is fantastic. I *do*, however, find it to be a bit overboard. Multiple instances are almost nothing but smears that linger on the screen for too long.
Totally agree. Heck, if an entire show was made with that animation style, it would be incredible. But this is not a stand alone show: it is an adaptation of a manga. It ought to faithfully capture the original medium where and when it can, while adding what animation as a medium can and should. What was done in that scene completely ignores the style of the manga and goes for something much more experimental looking. It's not like this is some freelance artist doing an interpretation of another work of a different medium in his or her own style. This is THE anime adaptation of the manga: it should look like it.
Gokou Blacc I found it distracting and dissapointing. There have been better fights in the past so amazingly animated, that this new style of animating it didnt fit for me and distracted me from the point of it.
I agree, Botamo vs Goku had next to no motion, despite people criticizing episode 5, I think the main problem with that episode is that it was over ambitious in terms of what it was trying to accomplish, with a bit more time it could have been something a little more fleshed out, the blueray edition proved that, most of the problems were attributed to the characters being off-model and not in a good way, sometimes off-model is good because it allows more freedom in animating, Goku, Trunks and Vegeta vs Goku Black is a great example of this.
it's still hurts me that goku chopped beerus for the chop he received while there was no chop but beerus just pressed his arm... it's so sad...why DBS sucks in term of writing [there's more than that, a lot of shitty writing is visible at TOP, for me this is the worst arc in db history, zamasu arc was fucking awful but TOP outclassed it completely]
In reference to the comment of 4:30. I'm starting off working in tv. And a long time director told us that we should not listen to criticism of the viewers. Because what do they know about doing televishon? We make them think they know what's going on by showing what on person is hiding from the other etc
I personally think that the animation style of episode 4 of Gurren Lagann has no place in the series. Had that art style showed up in a comedy show, it would have been acceptable, but not for a show that has such breathtaking fight scenes and is known for it's amazing animation. Regardless of how you feel about the art style of episode 4, it still feels much less fluid as other episodes in the show, and making that episode look bad comparatively.
Bad fight animation in season 2 of One Punch Man. Intense moments are 3 frames of “attacks” and use those with shaky cam. Still frames moving slowly across the screen. Etc
This is a great way to make a video about a devisive subject and discuss it in a manner that I think leaves you safe from haters since you clearly state these are just your opinions. It's almost a shame that the famous episode 5 even happened because I don't remember animation even being something that was regularly discussed in anime or at least the Dragon Ball community until this point.
Son Rayzer Even though it was done by Yuya (I think) it wasn't actually even that good. Not only that but one episode being halfway decent doesn't redeem the entire show itself.
This is why I don't really like "Fairy Tail" because the animation is very limited with some exceptions. The I often question if the characters are really moving. Scenes look like they have no weight to it and over is very bad to watch.
XD I tried explaining it to a fanboy and they just kept getting triggered after I said "Fairy Tail has good animation for once" this scene near the beginning here (*NOT SPONSORING*) ua-cam.com/video/TwmNyitYVLs/v-deo.html
I agree that the first half of Fairy Tail looks horrible. The art style is bad, animation isn't great. However, once they stopped and switched studios for Fairy Tail 2014 it gets a MILLION times better and is quite lovely. Looks like a completely different show. Fairy Tail 2018 will be amazing too. ua-cam.com/video/GPS4sqa1Tu0/v-deo.html
Pain vs Naruto is unironically my favorite anime fight of all time. It's simultaneously beautiful, powerful, and absolutely hilarious. Every frame flows into the next perfectly, you really feel the impact from every action, and exaggeration is pushed to its absolute limit to produce some of the most memeworthy expressions I've seen in anime. Plus some straightforward slapstick comedy is thrown in for good measure (pain getting driven face first into that cliff face for one). It literally has everything you could want from an anime, and will be hard pressed to ever be topped.
I think Pikachu vs Mega Gyarados from Pokémon Sun and Moon looks amazing. In fact, most of the battles in Pokémon look amazing these days, especially the Grand Trials.
I think its got to a point where people have been following cartoons/anime for so many years that they feel they understand everything, and therefore can critique any little thing like some sort of big time yelp reviewer..
you dont know shit about the actual reason they animated the scene so how would you know what youre getting as a product, stop watching anime like a pretentious douche
Fact 1: the first 7 minutes of naruto vs pain ep, contained 5500 frames . Fact 2 : a normal ep of an anime contains between 3000&4000 frames(24 minutes btw)
![Smoother animation ≠ Better animation [read description]](/img/n.gif)
People like to confuse 'Artstyle' with 'Animation' and it's annoying.
Visual aesthetics, fidelity, and art-style.
Yeh thats what i think when i see this video
Just like the old saying. "Don't pause in Disney movies" then don't pause in Animes either. Lol.
Wow, thanks for clearing that up, really thanks!😉
@@ChaosSwissroIl I see what you mean now, thanks for the insight! 🙌
Bad animation is failing to communicate motion not individual frames
It's freakin anime not manga damn it
Agree That Manga Is has A Bad Quality And No Shadow Only the Animation Is the best But Anime Is best Quality
You're so right, art is its own uniqueness
I mean manga has some smear frames but they’re aren’t too extreme.
Edit: not sure if they are smear frames or something else idk
@@Derpity search up "7 page muda manga" on google
Sype Artz I know this comment is old but have you seen the Berserk mangas? The details and art is quality of which anime can’t even pull off.
The animation for that band anime you showed...holy shit, who thought that was a good idea
It's so crazy. Sakugablog did a great article on it - blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/11/27/dynamic-chord-this-is-how-anime-breaks/
It looks more like a highly stylized motion comic than a real television show.
It was really creepy, I can't unsee it.
It looks like a poorly made Flash animation.
it probably would have been brilliant if they used it for an off-putting and psychological horror animation since it's so disturbing, but other than that it's just weird and out of place
Pausing in between frames and saying it's bad animation is like pausing a video of someone talking in a frame where he is in the middle of changing his face expression and saying he is physically deformed
Great comment
Are you assuming his gender?
@@ZeroDividedByZero What? What are you even trying to say?
@@EpiKerCovers It’s a dumb unfunny joke, don’t get your panties in a twist.
@@EpiKerCovers he's trying to be funny but lets just forgive the boy for his jokes ain't funny
This man gets it. Thumbs up!
Totally Not Mark You also just made a video about Super's animation
Hey Mark
Oh hi Mark
You're right thank you for making this
You yourself are guilty of everything Ajay pointed out fans are doing in this video. You fucking hypocrite. Need examples? Okay
vegeta's 2 left hands: in-between animation
goku and beerus funny expressions: exaduration
Need I go on?
When people say that pain vs Naruto “looks like loony tunes” they are complimenting the animation because loony tunes is animated better than 90% of today’s animated shows
Fr and let's be honest who doesn't like loony tunes' animation or even just loony tunes as a whole
That's true. Even Disney princess movie looks way more smooth than nowadays anime
Fitz Hugh um no
DeathX Animation • 24 years ago no to what? How well looney tunes is animated?
No they are saying that it’s animation is as crazy as looney tunes.
Not saying it’s bad
Naruto vs pain he hit him so hard the animation style changed
Skeeball D'Slanted 😂😂
But it was an amazing fight and the animation was 🔥
Good? It was a masterpiece of a animation
@Baked yeah, I would have liked a little bit less exaggeration. But otherwise, it was normal naruto.
this one got me lmao
You know why people unfairly criticize animation for being bad? It's because they're obsessed with finding anything that could be precieved as a flaw so they can be negative about it. And humans in general seem to find amusement in negativity.
Fucking straight facts💯
And that's how we end up with the monuments and mountains of bland completely inoffensive media.
"So they can be negative" you sound like a first grader.
People do it, because they just don't get animation. Period.
@@Ruldolphmaker aaand... u jus proved his point. Lmaooo
The notion "omg people just wanna be negative" is absolutely absurd. And it almost always applies to (big shock) series or things you want to defend. But you never see the things people are generally positive about. "They just wanna be negative" is a cop out to criticism I see very often in the anime community and it needs to stop.
Its not because of Plasma's characterization of his ideological opponents as he presents it. It's because these guys just don't get animation.
i actually love those super derpy inbetween frames in naotoshi shida cuts haha
bocodamondo heyyyyyy huge fan😂
same
bocodamondo I like your work dude
Bocomodo!!!! How are ya?
You seem important
Beerus derp face is best face.
Seriously put that on a shirt and I'd buy it
YellowTwerker someone... do it.
It wasn't a mistake or bad animation IMHO
It wasn't "bad animation" so much as "low budget" and "poorly drawn".
As an amateur animator who has gotten migraines from how rampant this crap this in the community i just got to say Bless you for taking the time to straighten this topic out. Keep up the good work Ajay.
2d, but its nothing but small little snippets I make in photoshop
Clicked bc of pain face
Same. Lol
I swear he looks like a fish in the thumbnail.
Look like a damn pirahna
LOL THE REPLIES
Oh my god this vídeo was NEEDED
Ikr
High Horse = High Ground
*I approve.*
nice one
Why Kenobi............. why?!?!
Hello there.
A suprise to be sure but a welcome one
the ground that I stands compares you superior
This is such an important video for the general fanbase. Nice work Ajay!
Sadly most of those people won't pay attention to it
I'mAlex you should copy and paste this video in the comment whenever someone post a pause screenshot
From which sexy hentai Anime are this school girls in 2:55?
I'mAlex im your 600 subscriber
Oh, well thanks!XD Even though I don't post anything anymore, I still appreciate it!
Pain vs Naruto was amazingly animated
You are right.
But the transition from the regular artstyle to the battle was poorly done and you can see the drastic change In art style and animation.
@@Oscar-j6b That doesn't make it bad animation. They were exaggerating to show the speed of the fight. It shows proper acknowledgement of power.
@@Oscar-j6b that may be jarring for some people, but after the first watch there's no reason to not enjoy it.
But awfully drawn 💁🏻♂️
CaEd SuVi Nope
This was very needed.
Everyone needs to see this.
NANI! Yeah. I remember someone said "what good animation" at a frame (in a kinda sarcastic way cuz Goku's face looked hideous) and Im like "THAS NOT ANIMATION WTF"
MiffMiff if by any chance youve watched one piece would you call the newer episodes animation not as good as the old ones or the art style. Cause i just feel like somethings missing from the newer one piece episodes
Oh my gooood THANK YOU! That wasn't at all what I was expecting, but I'm glad that was the case. As a professionally trained animator, it drives me insane to see people pass around screenshots of smears and call them "mistakes," or people saying the animation is bad because they don't like the show or style. Thank you for speaking out against this, it makes animators like me VERY happy.
you know they don't know what they're doing when they try to send you an IMAGE of bad ANIMATION
That makes sense.
Fuzzy Samurai People are being educated a lot more on animation now, I remember just a few years ago anime would be criticized for bad animation when it’s just an image..
@@fortzprod.8096 nah
They act like they are but in reality they still don't know shit
@@Smashman012 True
In my whole life, all non animator review on animation is just based on their satisfaction...
I never understood the logic of posting a *single frame* as evidence of bad animation.
Do these people not know what an animated gif is?
Also, there's a huge difference between deforming a character, through the means of stretch/squash and not being able to stay on model.
That's like pausing in the middle of a live action video and calling it bad because it has motion blur. smh
It's ok, they will learn. They probably thing super detailed anime with stiff movement and still frames is good animation.
When squash and stretch gets too exaggerated though, it can detract from the viewer experience. The scene where Pain gets decked in the face? That was good. The face and head shape warp, but it's not an overwhelming and bizarre amount. The line where he yells "My pain is greater than yours?" That one was off imo. Even with the use of squash and stretch, most anime will try to keep facial structure recognizable. The fact that each frame is a new drawing is impressive to say the least, but there is such a large difference between many of them that it starts to feel like a completely different genre.
One Punch Man s1 has some incredible combat choreography with squash and stretch but they cleverly hide the more noticeable imperfections by pulling away from closeups (easier to see warped body the closer they are to the viewer perspective) and combining it with brighter colors (like lights from attacks, you can cover a stretching body part by overlaying some fancy light over it).
Demon Slayer also has a ton of squash and stretch (particularly with Zenitsu) but ufotable also does a good job animating it in such a way that your eyes barely register it.
The most likely explanation is that the animation techniques have just drastically improved, the Pain arc in the anime was some 10 years ago or so. A lot of modern anime implement squash and stretch really well.
thanks Daddy now I can link this instead of actually explaining
Jesse McClure I see you around on Google+
you're going to give it hundreds of dislikes
Nigga what are you doing here? Get back to the server
ikr smh
link nani I only talk in SW and a few private accounts
This video is so important. Seriously, most people have been criticising the show's animation because they were not educated in the matter.
Soul Handler im a sacred reich fan too!
Ahahah cool man! Actually i haven't listened to this band in years. Gotta get back out there.
Soul Handler yep they are great at making thrash metal
Bad animation is when we first discovered flash as kids
what animation? at most as a kid you drew something and got stuck on how to do something else
Wakfu would like to have a word with you.
OMG that series is fucking awesome.
Wakfu is So good, I wish funimation gave it an English dub.
why english dub? sub is so much better
really didn't expect Mob Psycho to show up at the beginning since it's so underrated :0 gotta say that show has some breathtaking animation
Shane Can Draw I know so damn beautiful probs my fav anime
The artstyle looks weird but the animation overall was fine.
That series need a 3rd season.
Just watched episode 1.
Does reigen actually have powers or he's stays a fake.
@@NRRL-fb4yc watch it and see for yourself
@@Dragoon_99 ok. I'm guessing he has secret powers.
i'm an animation student, i approve of this video especially the in between part. ive tried using realistic concept of motion in my animation and the result is meh. never underestimate in betweens, if used wisely it would boost the expression, motion and power of an animation.
ポポ氏Mr. Popo lmao don't assume
@ポポ氏Mr. Popo what the fuck are you even talking about lmao
Animation IS art. You would know that if you yourself knew anything about the subject or art in general.
One thing is to animate sticks and circles, but it is really beautiful when you can pull off realistic art with fluid animation, it can be done, like the Battle Angel Alita Ovas
Same I just started year 1 ^_^
Bad art screenshots does not = Bad animation.
You can try without the double negative. "Doesn't not" means it does.
So it... does?
Does not not
Most of the time it's not even bad art, just off model.
Bad art sets the foundation for the animation though.. Even if the animation is adequate, if the character models and independent frames look bad then the whole thing is just going to look bad in general
just saw this video in my recommend and while im not a fan of anime, this is a good video and i think you explained it really well
good stuff!
I think this can apply to many other forms of animation outside of anime so I think anyone who is an animation buff should watch this
+Flamegirl
I always say this:
Theres 95% bad anime and 5% good anime.
Same for many other things. Its your work to find the golden examples, and these will give you an amazing experience.
Namely, Berserk, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Hellsing, or Attack on Titan.
Confused POLNAREFFU This is true for all forms of entertainment
"... a bizarre hatred that their cartoons *dare* to look like cartoons."
INB4 someone whines, "AnImE iS nOt CaRtOoNs"
Anime *are* cartoons, they're just not *western* cartoons. "Cartoons", in this context, refers to "animation". Hell, "anime" is even taking from the word "animation".
Don't tell the weebs that they can't handle reality
@@tingispingis
Many anime fans already know this and rarely see someone who is unaware of this. And you seem to be looking for trouble by saying "Don't tell them they will get angry" in order to get an angry person to attack you in the comments.
@@ahmedpro_gamer520 he said "weebs" , a "weeb" is like an anime fan who is so into it that he/she thinks he/she is japanese and that the only culture in Japan is anime :P
@@axellea1592 except people call everyone a weeb who even dares to watch a single episode of any anime
@@maevixie7041
Not everyone
I feel like the distortion of pains face when he throws that punch is to get across how fast and hard he threw the punch.
TaurusTheKing 72 nah, its to emulate old japanese art pieces
They didn't have to deform his face to the point of not knowing if he was really a human or some type of alien bizarre creature, good animation can go along with well drawn anatomically drawings which in fact would have made that scene much better, anyone can animate deformed figures
@@cardosutoro9 you don't know what you are talking About
@@cardosutoro9 I think it was a way to show the audience how neither of these fighters was anything close to human. remember pein is piloting a corpse and much like how naruto's skin melts off from how much power he wields. pein is moving so fast that the flesh is actually creating drag
In all honesty, it just looks retarded, but in the best way possible. To play Devil's advocate towards myself though, a very large portion of the fight from that point onward was slightly exaggerated, slightly maybe being an understatement until the fight slowed down a short while later, and while I wholeheartedly think that face is the most stupid funny shit I've ever seen, it still took skill to animate, like, a lot of it, same goes for the rest of the fight, the stretching of the face and other extremities does an amazing job of portraying motion despite or maybe because of the absurdity, and in all honesty, that fight is still probably my second favorite fight in the entirety of Shippuden's disastrous life cycle.
Hope this was insightful in some way, and have a fantastic day.
"why can't every episode be animated like this? Toei clearly has no budget left"
*When I see these types of comments I want to die*
Bwansson Didn’t a slowly bankrupting company make OPM with a normal anime budget?
Camilla B
Madhouse was not slowly bankrupting, maybe you mean Mappa?
AFKAwesome Yeah they were they were barely hanging on .
Just try to explain them how it works, I was an idiot who commented that kind of stuff because I didn't know how the anime industry works. Now I have an idea thanks to Ajay and I cringe with my old comments, but the point is I learned.
maybe they should distribute digital copies with english subs and 5$ for 3 episodes so they wouldn't go down so easily... rolleyes
Well a large majority of these people who yell”bad animation” don’t seem to know jack about animation...
We live in a time where any simpleton can improvise him/herself as an expert on everything due to the internet.
Actually though! I'm no student, but I try my best to use all these principals in my animation. I never upload it because I'm actual trash, but still. I get animation and the principals. But everyone criticizes it bc they don't get it. It's actually kinda sad
The majority of people who criticize anything know jack shit about that thing.
For everyone asking about the anime at 2:52 - 2:59 it is hibike euphonium
thank you
Azolaun gracias
Rule 34 here i come!
Thank you. That's why I was at the comment section.
Knew it
I really enjoy the things you’ve been putting out lately, ajay!
*Criticize animation based on a static picture>>>>>>>>
You could post a screenshot of dynamic chord and people would think it would be animated decently. *oh boy*
"Motion is irrevelant to animation"
~Someone from /vp/
+Mr. X
What do you mean you wish Americans would push for this kind of standard? I've seen plenty of amazing current American animation. Also, when you say old animation, how far back are you going? 30s? 50s? 80s? Also, in animation, a bad drawing is not a bad drawing if the bad drawing was intentionally added in skillfully to add to the movement.
Mr. X Did you just link to a fucking Buzzfeed article? Oh boy.
As a person learning how to animate. Naruto vs Pain's fight is VERY VERYYYY well done. Yes they took the stretch and squash (I hope I said that right) to the extreme, but anyone can agree that the battle's choreography and dynamics is very difficult to do for an animator. You can clearly see the professionalism of the animators by making it flashy but not too difficult for the eye to follow.
Isaiah Joseph dont know about that man...
Disagree
As another animator in training (Got a few videos up, not much, but it's honest work) I agree with your point of view, but Pain's face still haunts me to this day ever since I saw it. Seriously, the animation looked smooth, fast as hell but easy to understand. 3 Great feats, each hard to achieve, together almost impossible. But holy shit his face.
@@henriqueantunes2019 funny at the time i thought it was done on purpose because of how his jutsu function
The biggest problem I have is people don't knowing the difference between art style and animation.
Indeed.
A lot of the shown examples are really just design and/or other style choices.
If anyone wants to see _actual bad_ animation, just pop over for one of my ridiculously pre-beginner-level animation exercises on my channel. I guarantee it'll help make every other "bad" animation you've ever seen look like a masterpiece.
i hate when people say mob psycho 100's animation is terrible when it's some of the best i've ever seen.
ive heard it plenty tbh
U562 I've heard it from some DBS fanboys when they're unable to respond to legitimate points.
I never heard that complaint, the anime is stunning
Yeah the animation's fucking great
"i didn't hear it that means you haven't either and are lying" fuck you U562
I also saw people say Mob Psycho 100 has horrible animation. It totaly doesn't, it's one of the best animated anime i'd ever seen
Mob Psycho 100: Quality Animation, one of the best
Amen
Ravioli on RYE Charlotte
Yeeaahh i agree, they even used painting for the animation
Season two !!!
Finally some mentioned about it thx
As someone with animation-related career experience and education, this video rings 99% true to my ears. (And the only reason it's not 100% is just precaution -- I didn't actually _disagree_ with anything at all.)
I've learned time and time again that looking at individual frames barely tells you anything about the animation itself -- as an inherently time-based medium, it _cannot_ be judged meaningfully without time factored in. Heck, animation in general is all about the illusion of *motion* ... how can anyone honestly think disregarding the *motion* across frames (or, at least, conveyed in a single frame) will yield good critique?
Here's how I think of squash & stretch (often shorted to "squetch") and smears: it's motion blur. That's all. Well, squetch also significantly conveys weight and impulse, like the video said, but when we talk about the "fluidity" of motion then squetch basically contributes like motion blur does. Motion blur is usually described in terms of why it _happens_ in cameras, but I consider that completely beside the point (albeit technically useful). See, you can't really describe human vision in terms of frames. Visual perception is a hell of a lot more complicated than camera tech, even if there are lots of similarities.
One of these complexities is that your eyes "compress" what they see _before_ sending it to your brain. after photons trigger photoreceptor cells in your retina, they pass information to _two_ layers of other cells before it actually leaves your eye. That's a lot of lost information, but that's okay--your brain only really cares about motion speeds that we can physically react to. Most anything faster looks kinda blurry. _Blurry._ Due to _motion._ *_Motion blur._*
Basically, I'm saying that motion blur isn't _just_ a consequence of camera shutter speed, as is often explained. As a visual phenomenon, _it's part of how we see._ Don't believe me? Just wave your hand around quickly. If you don't follow your hand with your eyes, you'll see a blurry smear as its motion path. If you _do_ keep your eyes on your hand, everything _behind_ will smear as your vision moves instead -- and maybe the hand too still, if you're moving it quickly enough. If you wave your hand regularly back and forth, you'll see the end positions fairly clearly but only a blur in between. There you go: motion blur in normal human vision. (Though, just like how we don't see in individual "frames per second," our perceptual motion blur isn't quite as straightforward as camera motion blur, but it's at least pretty heavily analogous)
But here's the thing: we see the blur because our eyes _did_ see something moving between the "key" positions (e.g. we _do_ see the hand between the "endpoints" of a rapid wave). So our perceptual motion blur depends on something _actually_ moving, not just... teleporting. But animation isn't actually motion -- it's the _illusion_ of motion. You're using still images to trick our brains into perceiving smooth motion. So compared to reality, animated things _are_ teleporting... somewhere between 20 and 60 times per second. The information that our eyes and brains "compress" into a blur _isn't there._
So to _really_ achieve the smooth motion we perceive every day, animators must _add_ the "motion" information to frames where our eyes would normally see a blurred motion. Hence smears and squetch: they mimic the way we perceive moving objects, and are strongly analogous to motion blur. If you have a problem with non-emphasized smears, squetch, etc. (i.e. those that only last a frame) you probably haven't actually seen animation _without_ those things. Things look _incredibly_ stiff without _some_ kind of substitute for motion blur to give our eyes that motion information.
very true
HalcyonSerenade I actually read the whole thing and came here to support this comment. +
Ha talk about an essay. Anyways I totally agree with you
Now that's a long comment
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
What is bad animation?
Seven deadly sins s3: Allow me to introduce myself.
My god. This video was SO cathartic I couldn't help but smile. I'm not going to lie: I expected it to be a defense piece on pure animation while sidelining common complaints from viewers. It wasn't. You broke down each step of the debate elegantly, from the definition of bad animation, to tweening and in-betweens, to exaggeration, to stiffness, to how absolutely jarring good art and horrendous animation can look. The fact that you didn't shy away from discussing why some fantastic animation styles might come across as jarring to viewers if not presented well enough, or how sharp transitions between styles can take someone out of the experience, sold this video completely. This was a masterpiece in my book.
Thanks for this video, dude! I've been animating for nearly 12 years, and these kinds of useless complaints always irritate me lol. I've been wanting to make a similar video for some time... now I don't have to! :D
OblivionFall Oh no it's a brony, kill it before it reproduces
Josue Lugo i would say rather this about you than op, who has written something quite good, esp. when compared to your...comment
I suggest that next time that you be more careful and pay attention to yourself firstly before writing a comment.
Den Could you elaborate?
Josue Lugo Basically, he meant that you should go fuck yourself :)
Himura Takeshi ooh scathing, i actually felt that one
didn't realize people were critical of that moment of pain vs naruto. the distortion of his face is unsettling and surreal and makes it feel more visceral and impactful.
It was the exact opposite of that. If you want that feeling watch Sasuke vs Orochimaru in Part 1. Similar animation, Better choreography, atmosphere. everything that fight has; Naruto vs Pain the Looney toons doesn't. The animation for Naruto 6 tails vs Pain was Amazing. some of the smoothest I've seen from Naruto but it had the worst direction and Choreography. It's why we never got it again. They essentially said "fuck the tone of the scenes, the character choices and weight of the fight. Let's just do stuff. "
Were they even animating humans? Its like they asked a 6 year old kid to draw the characters and then they put them as models to create the animation, good animation can go along with well drawn characters, it doesnt have to be like that
Every comment on this echoes the exact sentiments I had toward that scene
I think the over exaggeration of squash and stretch had the opposite effect mixed with the gag manga antics of literally being nailed into the ground.
@@Lewtable This is the comment I'm glad I found. I personally like it, but what you stated was definitely a set back. The way Pain's arms flail like Tobi's just takes the seriousness out of the fight (mostly becuase Tobi was not serious), alot of their movements were reminiscent of drunk Lee's and Tobi's both of which were "goofy" characters.
Besides that I love the fight.
The Pain vs Naruto fight scene is actually one of the best in the entire series. I remember when I first watched it and although the style is completely different to usual it really enhances the sense that Naruto has lost all control of his power.
yes I think that was the point of it.
I watched it when it first came out and my friend and I would always watch the episode the day of release and discuss it afterwards. I remember thinking how amazing it was and then I talked to him and he was like "yeah it was a cool fight but the animation was shit" and I was thinking "what?"
The fight really shows the exaggeration that's why I like it
Mac Loud it was still dope and they made that to show how fast and hard he hit the ground are you dumb
Although the episode was impactful for the series and story, the animation was off because the structure of the anatomy wasn’t successful therefore it fell apart.
Best scenes??? Seriously? Kakashi vs kakuzu... itachi vs sasuke.... naruto vs sasuke 1.... naruto vs sasuke 2... Orochimaru vs 3rd... jiraya vs pain....hell even lee vs gaara looked better than that... the pain fight was soooo over the top for no reason. It was more over the top than the tailed beast fight during the war. It was just such a drastic change from everything else in the series, even the fighting leading up to it was full of bad cuts which took away from a lot of the great moments people were looking forward to from the manga... I mean the scene where 6 tails grabs a boulder and hammers pain like a nail into the ground 3-4 times?!? Seriously? Naruto just went rage mode, this is supposed to be an intense fight, and it was cheapened by terrible art and “funny” fight scenes... I looked forward to that fight for a long time and we got something that looked like it came from another anime entirely
Art vs Animation
Termi animation is not art?
well animation is not single piece of art like painting or sculpture for it shows movements, maybe that's what Termi meant
Nicolas Hansmann
They mean still images vs animation
Den mark thats fucking stupid there are millions of peaces of art that display movement or are at least meant to be depictions of action, but to say that the differentiation between animation and art whould be a lack of movement whould be an incorrect one
P.s. there is no difference art is art no matter what
*pieces, no one stated what you are saying, I simply meant that the op of this comment meant something, how many times do you see a piece of art like painting speak? animation is an art but different to those, it follows different principle. If you find it hard to find the difference maybe take time to do a research.
Animation: basically, the rapid succession of images (also known as frames) to create the illusion of movements.
Art: how the animators drew the frames
It'd be nice if people actually knew the difference between the two before screaming bad animation.
Damn this video needs to be shown everywhere..
Personally, I feel what makes an animated sequence great is "What is their intent? And was it well executed?" For example, the intent of a fight scene is to give a feeling akin to a rush of adrenaline to the viewer. If that is the intent, and the scene falls short of having the viewer vicariously feel the blows being exchanged, then it has failed.
As for an example of well executed intent, Mob Psycho 100. When Mob and Reigen confront their client's stalker, the intent was to create a feeling of discomfort in the viewer. In order to do so, we are given a close-up shot of the stalker. As a result, it gives the same effect as someone who is too close in your personal bubble. Therefore, recreating the same feelings that the victim would experience. Furthermore, they emphasize that feeling by somewhat going outside of the show's style and used rotoscope animation. (All while still looking like it belongs in the same show.) By going in a more realistic direction, in terms of style, it becomes uncanny. Because it so closely resembles an actual person, it becomes inseparable from reality and further immerses the viewer in that moment. Whereas, had they stuck closely to the show's normal art style, the viewer could easily detach themselves. Therefore, making scene less unnerving to them
Do people seriously think Sasuke vs Oro in part 1 was an example of bad animation in Naruto? That shit was beautiful. Pulling one frame of animation out of that scene and using that to call it bad is disrespectful. Especially when it comes from idiots that don't know anything about animation.
That fight was what Pain vs Naruto SHOULD have Looked like. The direction and choreography in that fight was phenomenal.
Lol I just spent 40 minutes of my day making making an essay just combining what you 2 said (Sailor/DavidProducts) I shoulda just scrolled down more.
@@NRLazy The same dude did both fights.. >.> You're not gonna get crazy hand-to-hand martial arts when one of the combatants is a large fox demon
THANK YOU SO MUCH for making this video. When the Pokemon Sun and Moon anime trailer was released, people took inbetweens of the show and said it looked lazy and had bad animation, which is just flat out wrong.
Puff'n Stuff The animation is good. The tone and art style aren't for me though.
I love that beerus being derpy threw the entire video
_"Inbetweens, and exaggerations are funny as hell to pause on sometimes."_
5:07 is that... Winnie the Pooh??
El Don't know if it's just to crack a joke, but it's a Dragonball Super character called Botamo. Just in case if it was a genuine question
It was a joke but thanks for telling me the character anyways
+MidTier Cool you were suppose to answer "yes" >:V
Fuck yeah he is
El sure does look like him
I love that you mentioned the Naruto v Pain arc. So much misconception with that episode. Btw since you did a video on what is BAD animation. Do one for GOOD?
Look at his super supervisors for Tate
I ,as a naruto fan myself, dislike the animation style of this episode because it looks so out of place. This kind of animation would maybe fit in a comedic scene or anime but not in a serious fightong scene. Also they just changed the animation from one episode to the other in a important part of the story. I think most people dislike the animation because of this reasons, but its just my opinion and I dont say that the animation is bad in general, its just that it doesnt fit in.
Konosuba is a great example of a show that has good animation that people who don't know what they're talking about saying it has bad animation due to its high use of squash and stretch. What people said was "bad" I saw as one of the most expressive animes out there.
Dan plus, the show is purposefully derpy and goofy. Makes sense to have a crude and perfectly unpolished style
Maybe it has quite a great animation, but the show is quite shit, I know it is a parody of anime in another world+RPG or something... but for a long time even when i watched some clips i found funny on the internet i couldn't help but feel stupid while watching full episodes. To watch it i felt like i had to get rid of my logic, even then many times i wanted to punch a character for being such an asshole. T-T
Yorcont That's the point. The main cast of characters are a bunch of failures.
Yorcont I don't think you get the show at all...
Honestly, I was just staring at Beerus the whole time.
same
ITS A REMIX AND IM COMING WITH THAT
There's people who don't know the difference between art and animation. In what kind of world do we live in...
Fak Yuh Googel not as important as you make it as
no but its common sense, like all you have to do is use your brain for like more that a couple seconds to understand.
Animation is art, the art of motion.
I hope this video blows up like Zeon's dragon ball animation vid. This is something EVERYONE in the community needs to understand...
the pain fight is one of my all time favorite anime fights of all time. you really feel the momentum and action of the environment. it feels like its on an entirely different level than anything up to that point.
Pain Arc is literally the best arc in the series and one of the best in shounen animes. In this arc the plot and emotions really evolved from dull ninja life to a god like enemy who seems untouchable, the topics evolved from just beeing hokage to pain, war and how to finally achieve true peace, Jiraiyas Background story, the prophecy, the plottwist behind the pseudonym Pain, Narutos first acknowledged loss of the only real family he ever had in his lonely life and how Naruto, Nagato and Jiraiya all are linked by destiny. Naruto vs Pain was one of the best fights hands down. Naruto as funny and kind character loaded with hatred and revenge that is challenged by Nagatos philosopy about Pain and peace that makes Naruto speechless. I really loved the exaggeration because it perfectly fit the final shit is going down mood. It visualised how much raw strength, speed and emotion on both side were involved in that fight contrary to what we have seen in Naruto to this point.
the only scene of that fight i didn't like was when Pain yells "my pain is still far greater than yours." i respect how much work they put into it. every single frame is a new drawing. but i think they went too hard with drawing the face. it contorts so drastically between each frame. the bit where he gets punched in the face by naruto was done way better because his head shape didn't warp nearly as hard. the punch makes it look way more brutal
I totally agree with you. For me, this WHOLE fight was SUBLIME in every aspect!❤🙌🏼👏🏼
naruto is not a well written shonen
@@heshe9504 "that's just..like your..opinion...man"
@@heshe9504 it was. Everything until the 5 kage summit was written well. It was only until the war arc were things got messy
This is an extremely important video for the anime community.
Beerus looks beautiful
You are one of the best youtubers in the dragon ball community
Dalek C yes
Definitely my favourite
Dalek C this guy is TnM's competitor
Dalek C nah Seth is
UnoriginalBraker LOL
It’s too easy to confuse style and quality, I guess.
A good spongebob scene will never fit inside a Dragon Ball story (ok...challenge accepted), but that doesn’t mean the Spongebob scene is badly animated.
This is a great video!! Definitely worth the watch and it is very educational :)
Golden Scouter nice try trying to get a like from him
Guy - Thanks?
Golden Scouter lol
hes not wrong. i finally learned what tweens are and understand animation better. i already knew that stills weren't bad animation but i still had a bit of trouble puting what bad animation is to words
This video should pop up in everyone's face before watching any anime in general . Thank you ajay for the amazing content and keep it up
The first thing that came into my head was all the people who talked bad about Psycho 100's animation when they knew that was the artist's style. Very well done in saying what had to be said, most of those who criticize most probably can't even draw
then make it appeal to you dont try to make another artists art something that only needs to appeal to what you believe is good art
HammerBroGH see that's where I disagree. The odd art style just makes everything feel more sureal. Not to mention can you even begin to watch the op or the Ed without acknowledging that it has incredible animation? How everything flows from scene to scene in that vibrant op with all of its references.
And the Ed! The guy who made that was hired out of college for a reason. Its done in a style I've never even seen animated before or since and its absolutely breathtaking.
Yes the anime is ugly but when slapped with these crazy colors and damn good storytelling, it easily makes my top 10 fave animes of all time. In fact I'm looking forward to season two of Mob more than One's other famous anime series One Punch Man. I have zero problem with trading a slightly ugly style for the characters and heart One brings into his stories.
Art can't be criticized aren't they? Because the artstyle excuse
Your right.
Mob Psycho's animation isn't bad. Making the animation and art style look stupid fits Mob Psycho's story and it makes the jokes more funny. Plus if you watch Mob's fight scenes, the stupid art style and animation fits really well. Especialy Mob's battle against Koyama.
I've been arguing for Pain vs Naruto being one of the most well animated fights for a while now. Thank you so much for making a video about this stuff!
The animation isn't bad but most people still think it looks like trash regardless of the issue or lack their of. They shouldn't have gone with that style imo
I don't understand people who comment "the Pain vs Naruto fight was horribly animated" because, wow, when you actually LOOK at the way it was animated, it blows me away with how much intensity and speed they could portray through animation! I mean, it was incredibly fluid, and if you take your mind off of "why do they look weird" to "holy crap how fast and strong are they to be looking this way," it really sucks you into that scene. Everything was so impactful and the raw power really shines through.
Really, though, I had rewatched it for nostalgia on UA-cam and was greatly disappointed of the comments. You go on some video with a million views that is the Pain vs Naruto fight clipped, you'll scroll down and see people criticizing it. I haven't checked back since, it was too annoying.
jellojyles It's funny how I need to change my mindset so that I would be able like that scene. Granted, faces being distorted on fights with such intensity makes sense and I do like it, it makes the action feel real. But this one is just plain ugly. Sorry, good or bad animation, Pain vs Naruto is just too diificult to look at and not laugh at the goofiness while at it.
people have uniornically commented that it "either looks like Looney Toons* (Tunes) or like it was done in a few minutes overnight."
That's like calling something "either a Ferarri to a mini wooden car made in some dude's basement overnight"
jellojyles obito vs kakashi is how you change style but stay amazing and similar
Moangus PIckard Or you know, it's just personal preference
Xuân Duy Phan Trịnh you can have personal preference eating rocks but it aint food. Fact is you cant change styles abruptly. Kakadhi obito fight was similar style to pain naruto but less over thrme top. It more animated but not necessarely better
If you screen shot and say it's bad
You dont know what animation is and what its suppose to do
Ikr ? That's like saying that a video game is bad cause it doesn't have a deep story .
ChaosSwissroIl that's not how animation works you fucking moronic uncultured twat
Omg dang cheap kicks stop using that slur.
[GD] Annoe well it's inevitable that people would notice these frames, they're supposed to show motion , but for the regular simpleton pausing in some frames , they see them as animators being lazy.
@@NaiefThegoony as in?
That Naruto vs Pain fight still blows me away to this day.
It’s the worst piece of animation I have since so far among the Shonen series
I agree, the fight is indeed well animated, blows me away too.
@@josemourinho2090 artstyle isnt animation stop being braindead please
@Gustavo Vieira There's a fucking difference between saying the art is garbage and stupidly saying the animation is garbage when its as fluid as ever you fucking fucktard
I totally agree with you. For me, this WHOLE fight was SUBLIME in every aspect!❤🙌🏼👏🏼
I searched bad animation
Your video's picture showed up
Mohamed FAOUZ 😂😂
The thing is, the scenes some people call terrible in naruto are the ones i consider BEST. The pain episode is in my opinion one of the BEST animated.
Thats your opinion but its not factual. It is trash animation
+TurnipKingg3 Did you watch the video fam?
TurnipKingg Thats your opinion but its not factual. It is good animation
TurnipKingg don’t comment if you don’t know what you’re talking about. I doubt you could do what they do.
LeCorey Tarpley What if I told you I was in a animation class?
never really understood why people said the Naruto vs Pain fight was badly animated. I think it's one of the best anime fights in anime history (personal opinion of course) The way it was drawn just makes it seem so much more impactful and makes you realise that those guys that are moving at extreme speeds are still human.
I would say its because the in-between frames look bad to people, this fight especially because compared to most other animation its very exaggerated. I don't see why people think that though, you don't really notice in-between frames and in the end it actually improves the animation because it adds that nice impact feel.
SpeedrunsTeddy Naruto y N.shippuden your fight are ugly,bad and mediocres in my opinión. Your Art is trash,ugly. Naruto Art>>>>>>>>> Naruto shippuden . Naruto art,animation was decente,but shippuden is shit,trash
SpeedrunsTeddy
The entire fight isn't bad, it's just that the squash and stretch wasn't executed very well and broke the immersion of viewers.
Tldr: the one scene involving pain looks weird, lmao.
It's really jarring actually, because the first hour or so of that fight was drawn/animated differently. After the nine tails comes out is when the characters are suddenly made out of rubber.
Wtf are yoy talking abour? Original Naruto’s animation was shit for the most of time.
It seems like all of these baseless criticisms made about the animation were made by people who knew anything about animation to begin with. For that I can give them the benefit of the doubt but then again, one should avoid talking about stuff they dont know, so confidently.
**looks at berserk 2016/2017**
**wheeze**
Honestly I liked the Naruto vs Pain fight animation.
I never got why people disliked it so much
People just get sensitive about their precious characters looking different.
to simply put it they are narrow minded.
Exactly! I thought the animation fit the high speed fights very well!
DeAngelo Monette
It looked goofy and like something from the loney tunes
The animation and style is inconsistent with the rest of the show. It looks strange and out of place, and now I know why.
mob psycho has amazing animation and it peeves me how people that don't like the style talk about how "bad" the animation is lmao
Some ppl just don’t know good animation
Me with PING PONG fam.
Another thing to mention is, animation is pretty hard. I mean they are professionals, and there are dozens of professional eyes staring at this stuff over and over for a living, but they are still human. They also have a time table to keep up with because people can't wait for the next episode. I think they are allowed to take small shortcuts and f*ck up every once in a while, as long as the animation stays at a more or less consistent level. The animation needs to be able to hold up as a perfessional product made by *HUMAN BEINGS!* Humans are not capable of making everything perfect. Also, we the internet, are full of people who have a larger ammount of time to spend on searching every pixel of every frame for imperfections. Also it could be a deliberate choice for legitamite reasons.
Though still, call out acctually bad animation. Like Dynamic Chord. That is shameful. I hope that that they did not hire a professional animator. That had to be on purpose. That is bad.
Also if you want your cartoons to look realistic the whole time, why do you watch cartoons? Especially ones with supernatural powers? Do you hate fun too? It's a cartoon, let it have a little bit of leeway.
I hate writing, *WHY DO I ALWAYS MAKE SUCH WORDY COMMENTS?!?!?!*
I need a life...
Philip Hockenbury lol "perfessional"
Philip Hockenbury To be fair, there's a difference where a company is having a hard time, to where it's just lazy.
Toei is an example, before they were just lazy as hell, but they're keeping it back up due to all the complaints.
“What is bad animation”
Seven deadly sins :allow me to introduce myself
Welp I shed a tear after watching season 4
Twinkle Nora Rock me : hold my beer
>Inb4 People say Tate is bad
There's an argument to be made that he isn't "right" for dragonball super without saying he's "bad"
Mr. Sandman His art is which is a bummer for me.
I like his movement but I don't like his faces
This video should be used as an automatic response to any hateful comments about animation
I tried.
Didn't work.
Stupidity sometimes can't be defeated.
How? A condescending artist making excuses for bad animation under the guise of "I'M AN ARTIST SO MY OPINION IS SUPERIOR TO YOURS" is in no way a proper rebuttal of someone thinking that animation is awful.
Disregarding the fact that I think all of Gurren Lagann is awful, episode 4 had so much fucking awful animation that I was stunned by how bad it was. No amount of condescending artist lawyering will convince me it wasn't garbage. It looked bad, I don't care for your excuses, they won't make it look any better.
6:15 that animation is so bad I cringed
It looks like he's rubbing one out
*YOS*
To da ham ham
@@mincat1412 YOS
Mincat 1326 fun fact, there is a reply button
you turbovirgin
the naruto community completely baffled me, i was told multiple times that pain vs naruto is a terribly animated fight, and when i finally started watching i embraced for the worst, only to be met with one of the most fun, exaggerated and dynamic fights. After that i stopped listening to what they say.
When you show clips, you should add the title of the animation in very small text in the corner!
Regarding the Pain fight, I've always conceded that the animation itself is fantastic. I *do*, however, find it to be a bit overboard. Multiple instances are almost nothing but smears that linger on the screen for too long.
Gokou Blacc eh
They went a tad too far considering the usual art style.
Totally agree. Heck, if an entire show was made with that animation style, it would be incredible. But this is not a stand alone show: it is an adaptation of a manga. It ought to faithfully capture the original medium where and when it can, while adding what animation as a medium can and should. What was done in that scene completely ignores the style of the manga and goes for something much more experimental looking.
It's not like this is some freelance artist doing an interpretation of another work of a different medium in his or her own style. This is THE anime adaptation of the manga: it should look like it.
Gokou Blacc I found it distracting and dissapointing. There have been better fights in the past so amazingly animated, that this new style of animating it didnt fit for me and distracted me from the point of it.
I agree, Botamo vs Goku had next to no motion, despite people criticizing episode 5, I think the main problem with that episode is that it was over ambitious in terms of what it was trying to accomplish, with a bit more time it could have been something a little more fleshed out, the blueray edition proved that, most of the problems were attributed to the characters being off-model and not in a good way, sometimes off-model is good because it allows more freedom in animating, Goku, Trunks and Vegeta vs Goku Black is a great example of this.
it's still hurts me that goku chopped beerus for the chop he received while there was no chop but beerus just pressed his arm... it's so sad...why DBS sucks in term of writing [there's more than that, a lot of shitty writing is visible at TOP, for me this is the worst arc in db history, zamasu arc was fucking awful but TOP outclassed it completely]
In reference to the comment of 4:30.
I'm starting off working in tv. And a long time director told us that we should not listen to criticism of the viewers. Because what do they know about doing televishon? We make them think they know what's going on by showing what on person is hiding from the other etc
*THIS. Listen to this. Look at this. Taste this. Feel this. Smell this. Study this. Bring this to your daily life.*
Wat
The face beerus makes when he gets hungry but remebers that he already destroyed earth.
Lol
I personally think that the animation style of episode 4 of Gurren Lagann has no place in the series. Had that art style showed up in a comedy show, it would have been acceptable, but not for a show that has such breathtaking fight scenes and is known for it's amazing animation. Regardless of how you feel about the art style of episode 4, it still feels much less fluid as other episodes in the show, and making that episode look bad comparatively.
Bad fight animation in season 2 of One Punch Man. Intense moments are 3 frames of “attacks” and use those with shaky cam. Still frames moving slowly across the screen. Etc
This is a great way to make a video about a devisive subject and discuss it in a manner that I think leaves you safe from haters since you clearly state these are just your opinions. It's almost a shame that the famous episode 5 even happened because I don't remember animation even being something that was regularly discussed in anime or at least the Dragon Ball community until this point.
Fortunately everytime someone comes out with a moan about Super's animation I can just fire back with the "Episode 114 Defence" !
Son Rayzer Even though it was done by Yuya (I think) it wasn't actually even that good. Not only that but one episode being halfway decent doesn't redeem the entire show itself.
Naruto vs pain is my favorite fight ever in anything
This is why I don't really like "Fairy Tail" because the animation is very limited with some exceptions. The I often question if the characters are really moving. Scenes look like they have no weight to it and over is very bad to watch.
XD I tried explaining it to a fanboy and they just kept getting triggered after I said "Fairy Tail has good animation for once" this scene near the beginning here (*NOT SPONSORING*) ua-cam.com/video/TwmNyitYVLs/v-deo.html
One of the big reasons i stopped watching fairy tale. I feel like there is no action, just pictures
Yeah. If I wanted to look at pictures, I would just read the manga
AKA DBZ which anime are you referring to? The first or the second one?
I agree that the first half of Fairy Tail looks horrible. The art style is bad, animation isn't great. However, once they stopped and switched studios for Fairy Tail 2014 it gets a MILLION times better and is quite lovely. Looks like a completely different show. Fairy Tail 2018 will be amazing too. ua-cam.com/video/GPS4sqa1Tu0/v-deo.html
Pain vs Naruto is unironically my favorite anime fight of all time. It's simultaneously beautiful, powerful, and absolutely hilarious. Every frame flows into the next perfectly, you really feel the impact from every action, and exaggeration is pushed to its absolute limit to produce some of the most memeworthy expressions I've seen in anime. Plus some straightforward slapstick comedy is thrown in for good measure (pain getting driven face first into that cliff face for one). It literally has everything you could want from an anime, and will be hard pressed to ever be topped.
I think Pikachu vs Mega Gyarados from Pokémon Sun and Moon looks amazing. In fact, most of the battles in Pokémon look amazing these days, especially the Grand Trials.
I think its got to a point where people have been following cartoons/anime for so many years that they feel they understand everything, and therefore can critique any little thing like some sort of big time yelp reviewer..
RikXtreme4 Because they can and they should. We pay our hard earned money for watching anime and I don't want an inferior product.
Vip_ ss You sound fucking stupid
you dont know shit about the actual reason they animated the scene so how would you know what youre getting as a product, stop watching anime like a pretentious douche
Fact 1: the first 7 minutes of naruto vs pain ep, contained 5500 frames .
Fact 2 : a normal ep of an anime contains between 3000&4000 frames(24 minutes btw)