Fingolfin reigned for centuries and Gil-Galad reigned for millennia, so whilst they met tragic ends they had very long reigns. I think the risk of falling in battle against an enemy just comes as part of the job description when you're king of a fantasy realm
Indeed, tragedy does fall on the Noldor who wear the crown: Finwë: lost his wife and was left heartbroken, begging the Valar for permission to remarry. Had to deal with the strife between his two sons. He was the first Elf killed in Valinor and doomed to remain in the Halls of Mandos forever. Fëanor: influenced by Melkor to distrust his stepmother and her children. Lost his father and precious Jewels to the enemy. According to one version, his youngest son was inadvertently killed by him. Slain by Gothmog and imprisoned in Mandos forever. Fingolfin: saw his people suffer much, decided to take matters into his own hands. Slain but never forgotten. Fingon: died in the most tragic battle, appropriately called the battle of Unnumbered Tears. Turgon: did not listen to Ulmo, overcome by pride. Betrayed by the son of his dead sister. Died in the city he loved. Gil Galad: much happier reign than the rest but with a most painful end at the hands of Sauron. Finarfin: ruled in Valinor over the Noldor who remained. His people and family divided and children gone. By the time he came to Middle Earth, his three sons were dead, one of whom, Aegnor, would choose to never leave Mandos.
I don’t have a reference but I have heard the title of High King has to pass down from the male side, Earendil was the son of Turgons daughter hence it not being Elrond. Of the Royal Noldor Line there is only Galadriel and Elrond left in the third age. One of the biggest mysteries of LOTR is Mithlond, was it still the Noldorin power base along with Imladris or more Teleri under Cirdan (another mystery), not to mention it’s the departure and arrivals lounge for Valinor
I don't think they were cursed. They just did pretty much all the fighting for the Elves. When you are fighting Morgoth, Gothmog and the Balrogs, dragons, and Sauron, you're going to have some losses.
I’m very much comfortably a #2 sort of person. Unnecessary pressure & all… If indeed I was gifted with such capability & wisdom in me, acting out Elrond’s place right nex to Gil-galad, would b my most favored
Has anyone ever wondered if Alinor, the name of an Altmer city in The Elder Scrolls, was named after Valinor since both places were home to elves? It certainly wouldn't be the only way TES imitates Tolkien, because their orcs were originally elves who got corrupted by their own equivalent of a demon lord. Sounds thematically a lot like Morgoth being essentially a devil and also turning elves into orcs, depending on version of orcs you agree with.
Actually the order of the High Kings of the Noldor in Middle Earth were Fëanor, Maedhros (after Fëanor was killed in battle and before he was captured,) Maglor (until Maedhros was rescued,) Maedhros then Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon and lastly Gil-Galad.
Well, since the Eldar are immortal and can only be killed via being slain in battle or murdered or by grief, then yeah, every end would be tragic, wouldn't it?
The duty of the Noldor was not that of a burden, their battle was a choice to either follow the Valdor or to give power to Melkor. Free to choose, each and everyone upon middle-earth had to decide, those not Elven had little power to resist Melkor and the subsequent mire Sauron. Even Frodo at the reckoning would succumb if not for Smeagol. The wisdom of the Noldor was not overshadowed by Sauron. The Elven folk were free to return to Valinor at the beginning of the fourth age, their work completed at the destruction of Sauron, evil being banished to the void.
I believe in their hearts they knew Morgoth could not remain if the good people in Middle Earth were to last. And were happy to die with honor fighting for the free people of Middle Earth. Ultimate courage and leadership in their deaths. And Mandos would have a special place for them.
I don't mean to be rude, or even downplay the events these leaders experienced, but was there any alternative? They were ageless, immortal elves; if they didn't die by violence, they usually didn't die, and if they didn't die, we wouldn't get more High Kings. I tend to think a few of the leaders, in Middle Earth, simply put off returning to Valinor because, much as they might like unchanging, they were less excited about going there, being less, as there were already kings in Valinor, and knowing that there would be no change. There wasn't an empty throne there, for Galadriel, were she to sail back, nor anyone to await the death of, in plan to replace them. Not sure I can put it better, but without retirement, or illness, death was the only means by which these rulers would cycle, where otherwise stasis stopped cycles. At best, said reigning High King may have returned wirh Elrond, and Galadriel, to Valinor, but as whom? I also sometimes wonder how "tragic" any elf dying is really meant to be? I'm not saying it's not bad, and there might certainly have been times when the skill, or knowledge, of a particular elf might've been useful to have, but often we fear death because either we don't know what happens; do we just cease to exist, or we fear being punished for our sins, and going to Hell, for eternal damnation, but Tolkien doesn't seem to have that. Eru's creation doesn't seem to have judgment, and punishment. When elves die, they simply move to the Halls of Mandos, and either await reincarnation, like only Glorfindel, or await the Dagor Dagoroth, or the Second Music of the Ainur. I don't know if they just sleep, or are aware of anything, but I'm not led to believe Feanor is suffering for his actions, or even the likes of Eol are punished. It's so rare Tolkien ever even willingly depicts an Elf as less than great they hardly seem to need a system. Humans are the same; we don't know where they go, but they aren't compelled to live better lives because sinning leads to Hell, or something. Maybe THEY believe something about it; Theoden seemed to believe he would journey to the halls of his ancestors, which we know aren't in Mandos' realm, but our reader perspective doesn't show bad fates for bad deeds. Where I'm going with this is, the elves were retrating anyway, and I doubt one can usually injure a fea/soul, so they were likely headed to Valinor, anyway, and if Glorfindel isn't the only reincarnating elf, they'll just wake up where they were going, with a new, whole body, and this is something they DO know, so I'm unsure how harrowing, or traumatic, it really must be for them?
I think that is quite frankly the point. Elves are ageless, so to live forever would mean living a boring, meaningless life, which is not the life of a high king.
Tolkien does not treat his monarchs very well at all. Only a few get a happy ending. And often that is qualified as with Aragon when his "reward" is essentially decades of war against East and South to combat Sauron's lingering influence among aggressive tribes and nations. This does not sound....restful or particularly happy. Maybe he didn't have a larger point in this but if he did it's probably that God humbles all regardless of majesty or achievement or wisdom.
Fingolfin reigned for centuries and Gil-Galad reigned for millennia, so whilst they met tragic ends they had very long reigns. I think the risk of falling in battle against an enemy just comes as part of the job description when you're king of a fantasy realm
Indeed, tragedy does fall on the Noldor who wear the crown:
Finwë: lost his wife and was left heartbroken, begging the Valar for permission to remarry. Had to deal with the strife between his two sons. He was the first Elf killed in Valinor and doomed to remain in the Halls of Mandos forever.
Fëanor: influenced by Melkor to distrust his stepmother and her children. Lost his father and precious Jewels to the enemy. According to one version, his youngest son was inadvertently killed by him. Slain by Gothmog and imprisoned in Mandos forever.
Fingolfin: saw his people suffer much, decided to take matters into his own hands. Slain but never forgotten.
Fingon: died in the most tragic battle, appropriately called the battle of Unnumbered Tears.
Turgon: did not listen to Ulmo, overcome by pride. Betrayed by the son of his dead sister. Died in the city he loved.
Gil Galad: much happier reign than the rest but with a most painful end at the hands of Sauron.
Finarfin: ruled in Valinor over the Noldor who remained. His people and family divided and children gone. By the time he came to Middle Earth, his three sons were dead, one of whom, Aegnor, would choose to never leave Mandos.
I don’t have a reference but I have heard the title of High King has to pass down from the male side, Earendil was the son of Turgons daughter hence it not being Elrond. Of the Royal Noldor Line there is only Galadriel and Elrond left in the third age.
One of the biggest mysteries of LOTR is Mithlond, was it still the Noldorin power base along with Imladris or more Teleri under Cirdan (another mystery), not to mention it’s the departure and arrivals lounge for Valinor
I don't think they were cursed. They just did pretty much all the fighting for the Elves. When you are fighting Morgoth, Gothmog and the Balrogs, dragons, and Sauron, you're going to have some losses.
Never late.. just arrived when i was able to.
Good video!
The Broken Sword: can you do a video deep dive about about; “The Grey Company,” of Aragorn’s friends, the dunedain rangers, and Elrond sons please.
I’m very much comfortably a #2 sort of person. Unnecessary pressure & all…
If indeed I was gifted with such capability & wisdom in me, acting out Elrond’s place right nex to Gil-galad, would b my most favored
Beautiful conclusion
Liked and subscribed
0:34 they were elves, all their deaths are untimely
So true!
Very fair point
The Doom of Mandos is essentially a curse on the Noldor that would lay most heavily upon their high kings.
They gave into the Dark Side of the Force - hatred, anger, vengeance. Abandoning the Valar and the "plan" of Iluvatar.
Has anyone ever wondered if Alinor, the name of an Altmer city in The Elder Scrolls, was named after Valinor since both places were home to elves? It certainly wouldn't be the only way TES imitates Tolkien, because their orcs were originally elves who got corrupted by their own equivalent of a demon lord. Sounds thematically a lot like Morgoth being essentially a devil and also turning elves into orcs, depending on version of orcs you agree with.
Actually the order of the High Kings of the Noldor in Middle Earth were Fëanor, Maedhros (after Fëanor was killed in battle and before he was captured,) Maglor (until Maedhros was rescued,) Maedhros then Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon and lastly Gil-Galad.
The High Kings of the Noldor in Middle Earth are some of my favourite characters.
1st to view, 1st to like, 1st to comment. Love your work.
Thank you so much!
I’m going to have to fight you for that title.
Well, since the Eldar are immortal and can only be killed via being slain in battle or murdered or by grief, then yeah, every end would be tragic, wouldn't it?
I feel like Elrond should be in that line of succession somewhere.
The duty of the Noldor was not that of a burden, their battle was a choice to either follow the Valdor or to give power to Melkor. Free to choose, each and everyone upon middle-earth had to decide, those not Elven had little power to resist Melkor and the subsequent mire Sauron. Even Frodo at the reckoning would succumb if not for Smeagol. The wisdom of the Noldor was not overshadowed by Sauron. The Elven folk were free to return to Valinor at the beginning of the fourth age, their work completed at the destruction of Sauron, evil being banished to the void.
Fingolfin was such a chad
Question does the books or Tolkien ever state how the malar got their rankings?
I don't know IF they were cursed, but I do know the name of the curse.
Fëanor
I believe in their hearts they knew Morgoth could not remain if the good people in Middle Earth were to last. And were happy to die with honor fighting for the free people of Middle Earth. Ultimate courage and leadership in their deaths.
And Mandos would have a special place for them.
I don't mean to be rude, or even downplay the events these leaders experienced, but was there any alternative? They were ageless, immortal elves; if they didn't die by violence, they usually didn't die, and if they didn't die, we wouldn't get more High Kings. I tend to think a few of the leaders, in Middle Earth, simply put off returning to Valinor because, much as they might like unchanging, they were less excited about going there, being less, as there were already kings in Valinor, and knowing that there would be no change. There wasn't an empty throne there, for Galadriel, were she to sail back, nor anyone to await the death of, in plan to replace them. Not sure I can put it better, but without retirement, or illness, death was the only means by which these rulers would cycle, where otherwise stasis stopped cycles. At best, said reigning High King may have returned wirh Elrond, and Galadriel, to Valinor, but as whom?
I also sometimes wonder how "tragic" any elf dying is really meant to be? I'm not saying it's not bad, and there might certainly have been times when the skill, or knowledge, of a particular elf might've been useful to have, but often we fear death because either we don't know what happens; do we just cease to exist, or we fear being punished for our sins, and going to Hell, for eternal damnation, but Tolkien doesn't seem to have that. Eru's creation doesn't seem to have judgment, and punishment. When elves die, they simply move to the Halls of Mandos, and either await reincarnation, like only Glorfindel, or await the Dagor Dagoroth, or the Second Music of the Ainur. I don't know if they just sleep, or are aware of anything, but I'm not led to believe Feanor is suffering for his actions, or even the likes of Eol are punished. It's so rare Tolkien ever even willingly depicts an Elf as less than great they hardly seem to need a system. Humans are the same; we don't know where they go, but they aren't compelled to live better lives because sinning leads to Hell, or something. Maybe THEY believe something about it; Theoden seemed to believe he would journey to the halls of his ancestors, which we know aren't in Mandos' realm, but our reader perspective doesn't show bad fates for bad deeds.
Where I'm going with this is, the elves were retrating anyway, and I doubt one can usually injure a fea/soul, so they were likely headed to Valinor, anyway, and if Glorfindel isn't the only reincarnating elf, they'll just wake up where they were going, with a new, whole body, and this is something they DO know, so I'm unsure how harrowing, or traumatic, it really must be for them?
I think that is quite frankly the point. Elves are ageless, so to live forever would mean living a boring, meaningless life, which is not the life of a high king.
So that's why nobody wanted to become the high king after Gil-galad... And I thought they were being modest etc. 😂
Tolkien does not treat his monarchs very well at all. Only a few get a happy ending. And often that is qualified as with Aragon when his "reward" is essentially decades of war against East and South to combat Sauron's lingering influence among aggressive tribes and nations. This does not sound....restful or particularly happy.
Maybe he didn't have a larger point in this but if he did it's probably that God humbles all regardless of majesty or achievement or wisdom.
Being high is always a curse
Video 330
I wouldn't be surprised if someone blamed the death of every Noldor High King on wokeness and/or migrants.
Why introduce politics where it doesn't belong? I watch this stuff to _escape_ the Clown World we live in.
And technically the Noldor were the migrants 😂
Not funny
@@paulharrison2557 who robbed & murdered their hosts.
Morgoth: I will build a wall and make the Noldor pay for it and slap my favorite word, TARIFF on the Noldor!
Well then don't go hiking