How the Shoulders ACTUALLY Function In the Golf Swing
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- Опубліковано 31 сер 2023
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In today’s video, we're going to be talking about how the shoulders relate to the chest and the upper spine and how our shoulder plane can affect our swing direction, swing plane, etc.
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This is incredible. I have never heard a description of the shoulder turn like this before and it actually gets me into a decent P4 position now. I can't believe it, just left shoulder down and across to get to P2, and finish the swing with that right shoulder directly behind your center. I will be working on this all during the off season to engrain the feel of it. Before I was using all right shoulder and stretching out my right side only. That caused my left shoulder to ride up way to high and the swing was still too flat. Now with this new way, I have a more upright plane.
Thanks for the feedback and glad to hear this helped you comprehend this part of the motion! It is a slightly different view point from just keeping lead shoulder down. Thanks! 👊👊
New favorite golf instructor account. Found you from Eric Cogorno’s recent collab videos with you. You’re a genius.
Thank you much!!! I greatly appreciate that! If you ever need anything or have questions, please feel free to reach out! 👊👊👊
As a tall golfer I always had an issue with proper shoulder turn. The teachings of "make your front shoulder point towards the ground" basically tore my rotator cuff. This lesson is pretty awesome guys and I hope you listen to it. It'll change your life.
Thank you much for the feedback and comment here! Greatly appreciate it. If you ever need anything or have any questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
Thank you for the indepth explanation of the proper shoulder turn!
You got it!!! Thank you for the feedback and comment here!
To me this is the best explanation of how to get the shoulder inclination right in the golfswing, on the tube! If I can add from own experience: the flat shoulder plane doesn't create torque, because it is the result of the avoidance of resistance in the backswing. As a consequence of lack of torque, there is no speed in the downswing. The torque I'm referring to arises when, in creating the backswing with the correct shoulder inclination with the required resistance in the trail knee to sliding laterally, your behind will start turning towards the target and a tremendous amount of resistance gets built up in the trail leg. Now you don't need a conscious weight shift on the downswing. As soon as you have reached the top and you begin the downswing you will be on the front leg and you just have to stay down and swing through. And there's the powerfully released draw.
Love it!!! Thank you for sharing and good this helped! I appreciate the feedback and comment here! Let me know if you ever need anything!
TS
Brilliant explanation. I’m so happy to have found your channel through your lessons with Eric Cogorno. As a physician who took up golf late in late, your easy to understand (for non medical people) explanations of how your anatomy and biomechanics help your golf swing are so incredibly helpful to generate an effortless powerful swing.
Thank you! Appreciate the feedback! Let me know if you ever need anything!
What a sweet swing…great explanation, oration of how to get a “proper” shoulder plane. Thanks!
Thank you much! I greatly appreciate the feedback here!
Shoulder tilt extremely important part of golf swing. Thanks
Couldn’t agree more!!!
You’ve just described all of the swing flaws I’ve ever had, this is exactly what I need to work on. Thank you Trevor, this is pure gold.
You got it! Let me know how it goes and if you have any questions!
Trevor , I don’t quite know what to say , I’m 76 and a retired PGA Teaching Professional , I’ve watched you with Eric and I’ve watched Eric at his range and most likely have read more instruction books than most and had more swing thoughts than anyone and you came across my I Pad this morning . In my own swing ( I taught my students the right way ) I always had a massive shoulder turn but believed something wasn’t right . I had the Ledbetter “ load the right hip socket “ backswing and a few years back decided I needed to tilt more ( not S&T ) , I only hit drivers into my home net these days because of a real bad left wrist ( U.I.S. ) , went out after I watched this and didn’t bother with the drills you mentioned and it all became clear in an instant . I’m a “ one planer” , I thought about Hardy’s book about how you have to bend the chest over and swing the left arm across the chest with the right shoulder going behind the neck , unbelievable ! All I have to do is stay behind the ball and I’m good ! You’re the best , Thanks Trevor , John
So cool to hear this coming from another teacher! Thanks for the comment, feedback and detail in response! So cool this related to you so well and was easy to conceptualize! And most of all it took away some pain you had.
If you ever need anything or have any questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
What an amazing lesson!! Can't wait to get started. Of course you know that just about EVERY teacher out there teaches posture as bending from the hip socket/sticking the butt out, not bending from the waist. But when I bend from the waist/chest more down, I can't believe the increased range of motion and ease of turn I get. Plus, just experimenting with this, I find this moves my swing bottom toward the target about 3" and makes it much flatter & I imagine more forgiving. So many benefits!
So cool to hear! Appreciate the feedback and comment here! So glad to hear it’s helped! If you ever need anything at all, please don’t hesitate to reach out! Thanks again!
So glad I found your channel - this video could be a game changer for me. Never seen posture/spine angle/shoulders explained this way. I know I am too upright which I can see now keeps my shoulders too level - leading to really good shots if I reroute my swing plane properly or really bad shots (fat, hooks, and some tops). Looking forward to your next video. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing and glad this information helped you! Thanks for the comment and feedback! If you ever need anything, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
Great series!
Thank you!
Great stuff!!!!! Love your videos!
Thank you so much! Greatly appreciate it! Let me know if you ever need anything!
This video instruction combined with your instruction video with the 45 degree hip turns for the backswing/transition/downswing with the alignment rod station has been a fabulous help to me…suddenly I was in balance and getting to my 45 degree hip turn on my lead side and BINGO…I was getting a nice divot and ball compression for a nice result…as long as my tempo remains good I think I can do pretty well…THANKS!
Secondly I might have been a bit harsh with a comment to your channel a day or so ago…just frustrated at working hard with no good results…pardon my frustrations please.
Your instructional insights are extremely useful for getting to the heart of a potential problem causing mishits.
Cerebral training works for me…you have a great ability to dig deep for your students on YT .
Thanks so much for the kind words and feedback here on the content I make. Means a lot. The most difficult thing about making UA-cam vids is they are meant as an educational purpose on cause and effect vs. trying to give people quick fixes. I can’t ever promise this info will fix anything, only meant to help shed light on areas of the golf swing I see problematic from in-person and online sessions I instruct.
If you ever need anything or have any questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
I would put (Retraction/Protraction) in the title or something. I saw an AMG video about these two movements and could NOT find anything else about it till I hunted you down. Thanks!!
Thank you much for the input!!!! I’ll keep that in mind for sure for future vids! Thanks!
Trevor, your videos are always in great detail with easy explanation. Thank you.
Thank you! Appreciate it
Excellent lesson and just what I needed. Thank you!
Thank you!!! Glad this helps!
Never realized that you should consciously point your striatum down toward the ground at address to increase your shoulders range of motion ... thanks for the insights, steps and drills to work on this ... I notice when I get fatigued that I start to only raise my arms ... thinking if I keep putting in the "feels" reaps, should help even when I get tired ... Thanks! great stuff!
Thank you! Glad this helped! The more you practice these movements, the more you will want to do these things when you tired as they become easier for the brain to access! Rewiring is a cool process, just takes time and reps!
I don't understand how you are so intune with the questions I am asking myself on a weekly basis ... whenever I question a particular part of my swing, you manage to post a video about it! Thankyou! Continue the great content (and ESP)!
Trying to help shed some light on topics that I see cause the most issues for players I see in person. Also, taking video requests has helped a bunch for what players really want to understand more. Thanks for the comment and feedback! I’ll keep these coming and glad this is helping out!
Trevor, what a GREAT lesson and best explanation on shoulder turn in the swing I’ve seen on the internet! Thank you, so glad I’ve found your channel.
Thanks so much! Appreciate the feedback greatly! Let me know if you ever need anything or have any questions!
Great tutorial! Look fwd to working on this; many thanks for the lesson
Thank you much! Appreciate the feedback
Completely sorted my backswing out !! Thank you
Awesome! Glad to hear!
Excellent lesson once again Trevor. I always pick up something new each time I watch it and appreciate the way you teach practicing. Not just doing a few rehearsals and hitting balls
Thanks so much for this! I greatly appreciate it! Means a lot! Glad this is helping and let me know if you have any questions!
Could never get that shoulder turn on plane. Always coming up out of the backswing and unaware of it happening. You explained this in a way that just clicked for me. Helped me get that compression also. Just fantastic! Thank you, I'm enjoying playing golf again.
So awesome to hear! Thank you for sharing! Greatly appreciate it!!
Terrific insights in this one TS! I especially like the drills added to lock in the "feel". A lot of unlearning has to do with dialling back the aggressive athleticism that we tend to bring to the golf swing from other sports i.e., baseball, ice hockey. It's all about working with the spine! thx as always!
Couldn’t agree more! Thank you for the feedback, appreciate the support and let me know if you ever need anything!
Great reinforcement of what we worked on! Thanks, Jeff
Yes sir!!! Thanks and let me know how things are plugging along!
This mother fuck'r never misses. Wakes up and blows minds. legend.
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Great lesson Trevor
Thank you!!
Thanks for sharing. It would be awesome if u continued in detail the shoulders on the downswing and how you develop right side bend thru the downswing.
I will add this to my list for you of content to shoot! Thank you!!!
Great modern instructor has allowed me to deconstruct my swing mechanics and allowed me to titrate my experience, feels, and video analysis into break through results - Gold.
Thanks a bunch for the feedback and comment! If you ever need anything, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
Perfect ty!
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Absolutely brilliant interpretation, exactly my issues. Been looking for this 💡 light bulb moment.
So awesome to hear! Thank you!
Awesome stuff! And I'm actually the opposite on the lead shoulder pointing to the ball. That actually helped me but this explains it so much better and what's really going on.
Thank you for sharing and glad this helped! Let me know if you have any questions!
Fantastic lesson! I've been struggling with feeling stuck on the down swing but this helps to keep my arms out in front of me while making a full turn of my shoulders
Thank you! Hope this helps and I appreciate the comment and feedback!
Just dropping a comment for the algorithm! Really like how you explain things. I’m only 2 weeks in and suck but your videos have really helped me so far!! Thank you 👊
Appreciate it!!! Thank you much! Let me know if you ever need anything!
So chuffed you did the collaboration with Cogorno. The explanations on posture in terms of how it affects balance has made a world of difference. Huge thanks!
Thank you much! Appreciate the feedback! 🙏🙏🙏
Great video.
Thank you much!
Fantastic! I have been having difficulty getting the right chin under shoulder posture.
This helped a lot. Excellent explanation and Drill.
No one should start hitting balls unless they got this right. Thank you. You are an excellent teacher!
Thank you for the kind words! I greatly appreciate it! Couldn’t agree more with you! Thanks for the comment and let me know if you ever need anything!
wow !!!! this is really great tip , i have been playing golf for 20 year finally i understand how the shoulder works, thanks to you i can enjoy this game a lot more now😀
So great to hear! This is exactly what makes teaching golf so much fun for me is comments and light bulb moments for players like you! 🙏🙏🙏
Well done sir. Like your action.
Thank you!
Huge respect Trev from a fellow PGA pro, mate you are outstanding
Thank you much! I greatly appreciate it! If you ever need anything, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
TS, this is an outstanding presentation. Love the emphasis on the trail side shoulder to get the lead shoulder in proper position. So much better than the emphasis of the lead shoulder at ball and trail elbow down that I grew up with. When I got older, wiser, and quite frankly in need of a motion more comfortable I naturally ignored the lead tilt and let that trail elbow fly like Jack and so many other greats. I also find it also naturally facilitates a motion that is much more in sync with gravity throughout entire swing. The only thing I'll add is to do Jack's famous side eye at address and this opens things up even more for that trail shoulder retraction. Anyway, again, outstanding!
Appreciate all this and the feedback you left here! Means a lot! Not ever saying that it can’t be don’t the way Jack did it! Guy is a legend! There can be easier ways of doing for the average person! Shedding some light on how that can be done! Greatly appreciate the comment and please let me know if you ever have questions or need anything!
@@tsgolf thanks dude, love seeing those right elbows fly. As a kid I hit it my best that way, but all the local "experts" would always correct me to keep it pointing down at top. Even though I would eventually get it in slot. But as an adult I've studied so many of the greatest players and that right elbow can do whatever it wants at top. The great Mike Austin emphasized this as well. To me it's what generates a truly tension free, gravity assisted motion. So anyway that's why I love your right shoulder retraction drill!
You can make as big a shoulder turn, as you want, but make sure you relax the trapezius muscles at transition, with the soulders closed, arms freefalling to P5, dropping into the slot.
With no intention,vof hitting the golf ball.
The secret, is to turn your arms , shoulders, brain off at transition
The reactive brain will take you through the shot, with dead arms , slinging in phaze, with the rotating mass 😊
There is more than one way to do! I agree with that for sure. Thanks for the comment
He's the man !!!
Thank you!!!! 🙏🙏🙏
Game changing.
Thank you! 🙏
Nice presentation
Thank you!!!
Great video as always! Specially how things in the set up affect the swing. Btw, does the chest point lower or higher as the club gets longer (driver)?
The lower the swing plane is the more up it will naturally sit like w/ driver
Great lesson and swing concept. Most people/instructors focus on making the back swing with the legs or hips. Your lesson makes so much sense (to me) to focus on the shoulder rotation. Since my hands are connected to the club, arms to the hands, shoulders to the arms, I just can not see how working the feet, legs or hips can ever make a proper back swing. I will work on this in my living room and then on the range tomorrow. Two thumbs up!
Thank you much! Appreciate the feedback! Please let me know how it goes and if you have any questions!
Great video 🙌
Is this a one or two plain swing I wonder 🤔
Whatever it is you got a great elegant stylish swing
Iv seen on other videos you drop the club behind you on the backswing using natural laws of things falling which amazingly squares the club face by the time impact happens
This would be on more a constant radius motion. Will also work for motions like Rory’s etc. though. More than anything it is explaining how the shoulder can move and the functionality of them play in the golf swing. Thanks for the comment
Great video. I have the following question: at the top of the backswing what hand position are you recommending? In front of the sternum? or should they go further back? Thanks
I would say with a neutral grip, flat lead wrist, extended trail wrist, and neutral forearm positions form a rotation standpoint. Lead arm on shoulder line and trail arm on seam line!
Great instruction 👍🏽 but 9:46 shadow tip is challenging in the UK weather.
Haha! We need to get you out here to Miami where there is some sunlight!!! Thank you!!!!
So are you saying during your takeaway you're actively thinking of your lead shoulder and arm to get off the ball and then you transfer the rest of the backswing responsibilities to your trail shoulder and arm? As if you were you tossing a ball from your left hand to your right hand, you're 100% transferring your lead to your trail with no more thought or activation of the lead side?
That’d be a great way looking at it for sure! Lead side starts the motion and trail side finished it in the backswing!
I am trying this and while it definitely makes me look better on video, it is hard to bring this back to the ball the way I am used to. I used to turn it relatively short, sway a bit of the ball and stand up a bit (still playing under par rounds occasionally). Would you have any tips to bring it back to a proper delivery from this ‘new’ position or you reckon it is just getting used to it and it will come naturally? Thanks for the video!
The best way I could help you is being able to see you swing. DM me a vid on IG if you’d like or email. Happy to take a look.
I’ll also add a video here to content list of future vids!
Thanks,
TS
Thanks! Appreciate that🙏.
I have tried this drill in the house and can take it to the range with my irons from my wedges to my 7/6 iron. Longer irons and driver are a big issue now I can get that side bend for those clubs in either direction. Takeaway or follow through. Really struggling with this and it’s super frustrating. Lol.
This would likely mean the arms are likely a bit to far in front early. Send me a swing and I’ll take a peek if you’d like
What would be the best platform or means to send you a video. Super appreciate it.
I fully enjoyed that. I struggle with my shoulders , I hope I’m signed up so I can see more?
I’ve got some good vids coming up for you all! Let me know if you need anything or have any questions!
when starting with the lead shoulder the club likes to move a little inside are you hinging the wrist or creating a little lift in the first part to get the club up on plane a little?
There is slight amount of hinge unless you have a fairly strong forward press at the address position. Just enough to get the shaft parallel to the ground
I watched this video wondering if the scapula into the neck pain that golfing afflicts me with was being caused by improper shoulder turn. I feel my shoulder turn is mimicking yours but I suspect being fast in transition is tearing up my left side. would you recommend one of yours that focus on that part of the swing. There's a lot of people on the net spewing good golf info but I just seem to relate to the way your communicating the info which is key for a teaching professional :)
Thank you much for the kind words here and glad all this info has been helping you out! Happy to help anyway I can! In regards to what is hurting your lead shoulder, it is most likely pulling internally through the ball causing it to get jammed up. Send me a vid or DM a swing and I’d be happy to give you some advice!
Thank Trevor I'll get someone to vid me and do that.@@tsgolf
I'd like to know if you keep most weight on your lead foot. Trying to fix low point issues as such, thin shots are the norm. Your swing looks very compact wo alot of moving parts. Well done !
In my backswing I use the trail side of the hip to turn and push pressure towards the lead side early (by getting pressure to lead side early, you can use it early and create stability). I’m good as well with starting our 60-40 lead side or even drill w/ more pressure there to help low point
Great video Trevor! I have an issue lately with inconsistent contact that I haven’t had all year and this video should help.
Question- is there a thought process or feel in the downswing (e.g. reverse the shoulders from where they were)?
Great explanation about chest up at address. I’ve struggled with horrible swing path a long time. Is there a video lesson covering the shoulder plane during transition and into downswing? Thanks for the wonderful content!
The shoulders will work symmetrical to what they did in the backswing (going back into a hip flexion and a forward bend in the transition of the downswing). I’ll add this to video content that I’ll shoot in the future for ya!
I’ll add that to my list of vids to shoot now for ya!
Hey Trevor, been watching ur vids since I first started golf about 6-7 months ago. I wanted to see if I could send you a couple videos of my swing to see what I’m doing wrong and suggestions on practicing/drills. Would that be possible? Can compensate you obviously.. Just have been constantly told i am rotating incorrectly… and am lost 😔
I would be happy to help anyway I possibly can! I’ll attach a link for my schedule for lesson and consultation call! Would love to jump on that and chat!
calendly.com/trevorsalzmangolf
dude...finally.
Hope this helps!
Awesome. Is this the same feel throughout the bag? I have always struggled with the woods, as I feel "stuck" through the downswing, but will certainly be giving this a go. Just curious as to your thoughts as I progress woth the given drills.
Should be the same feel throughout the bag. Longer irons and woods may have a slightly later hinge pattern closer to the top of the swing.
Stick could be coming from setup either being to close or to far from the ball. I’ll attach a setup video link.
What Causes Early Extension? | Part 1 Of Early Extension Series
ua-cam.com/video/LWTxCHal0xg/v-deo.html
@@tsgolf Thank you! The videos are great. Hopefully sometime this year I'll be able to get down for an in-person lesson
I’m going through this at the minute after having a get the shoulder down lesson and I honestly nearly listed all my equipment today I could have honestly cried haha. Feel like like losing my mind
Hopefully this helps and gives you a better understanding. I’m sorry to hear you had a bad lesson experience with this. Hopefully this shed some light on it.
@@tsgolf oh it helped all right! Thank you so much. It’s a subscribe from me!
Love your channel. New subscriber. You remind me of Danny from Caddy Shack ! :) I keep expecting Rodney Dangerfield to pop out of the bushes and excuse himself for being late to his lesson. Keep up the great work !
Haha! I love that! Thanks for the feedback and laugh this am!!! Let me know if you ever need anything!
Yo Trevor!!! Love the videos. Not too sure about the shorts. Hey...why aren't you a devotee of Stack & Tilt? I mean everything you talk about is related to S&T.Why don't you come out and agree with it? Thanks. Gerry
I don’t disagree w/ S&T as all. I think there are a lot of great concepts here and it is one of the most misunderstood concepts. Andy Plummer is hands down the smartest guy I’ve ever been lucky enough to spend time around and with!
The coolest thing about golf is there is more than one way to swing it and sync things up for players! Diving into the anatomical side and learning more how the body moves functionally is so much fun!
Thanks for the feedback and please reach out/ let me know if you need anything!
You're so good at explaining movement! Starting with this setup, in conjunction with a trigger move, do you like the idea of pulling the right scapula back to move the right shoulder around a stable spine to the the back of your neck which would allow the left shoulder to move down and behind the ball, or do you like pushing with the left shoulder? I find pulling using big muscles vs pushing keeps the upper torso rotation on track. Would problems result doing this? I got this concept from this short.Thx Trevor🤛 ua-cam.com/users/shortsxky_oNbavvM?si=-_Nnv06wY_obAlBl
In a perfect world I like creating balance in movements and they work in (lead side first trail side second). It can still be done together and in other ways for sure though! Generally one side is pushing and then the other side is pulling (this is both backswing and downswing). I’ll take a look at this short you sent as well! Thanks for sharing and the comment/ question!
I have similar issue I think. My left shoulder goes slightly down in the backswing so I have to compensate and stand up in the downswing. Definitely killing any sense of consistency 😳😳 !
Hopefully this sheds some light on how to fix it! Let me know if you have any questions!
Is it similar drills if the lead shoulder/heads goes down in the backswing? This video feels to be more focused on the opposite when the shoulder plane gets more horizontal ⛳️😊.
That is compact but still maintains depth also
Bingo!
Trīs is truth only when the player use default dynamic structure of movement. This structure is the basic cause of injuries in golf. Problems with steep or shallow is not relevant with full body dynamics. Dynamic structure of movement is what determines all kinematic and rhythmic in movement. The hardest task of coaching is work for informatics structure of movement that allows use not default dynamic and open the hidden sources of force that’s available in golf swing. Shoulder turn and plane is normally only effect of this forces and therefore as all kinematic structure is not primary teachable.
I wouldn’t disagree at all with what you are saying. Working with players firstly that don’t understand movements can be difficult doing all these things dynamic only at times and trying to bring awareness to new muscles being, balances changes, moving to create a counterbalance etc. When a player reaches a certain skill development, dynamics of creating more force are also highly important. Tour players and scratch golfers make-up a very small percentage of the golf world compared the high handicap players. I don’t disagree with what you are saying. Thanks for the comment and your perspective.
@@tsgolf Your absolutely right about the amount of low handicap players. I can only ad that the reason why golf is so difficult comes from trying use default dynamics structure for straight shots. When I speak about dynamic that means not doing movement dynamically, but use other groups of muscles , not shoulder turn that is only secondary and small part of the force of golf swing. My opinion is that the basics of coaching for linear forces gives maybe not so fast but much more possibility that we have a lot of good players in our teaching career. Shoulder turn is a rotation and can be used only as effect of all other linear forces . Is extremely harder tray use rotation for straight hits as lean a linear force for golf swing. I try my self for more as 10 years and see around me lot of people doing the same. There is thousands possibilities of compensations that we can find in UA-cam how increase the possibilities of straight shut. Human anatomy gives us more of one power source for golf. When the teaching comes from shoulders not from ground up I see thousands of lost golfers who wander the vastness of internet in search of secret moves or body positions. In every sport every good movement starts from ground up and ends in ground. This understanding comes from more as thousand years knowledge of Chinese fighters arts an can’t be wrong because you are dead when you wrong in fight.
@@guntars66 appreciate the feedback and I will likely go to my grave is saying that if we don’t control the ground and the pelvis everything else is not going to work efficiently. Shoot me an email or DM on a social media platform like IG and we can get on a call to discuss. Love chatting about stuff like this with players and coaches. My email is trevorsalzmangolf@gmail.com
As easy as that
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MR AWARENESS
Thank my man! 👊👊👊
Way too complicated. Just try rotating the shoulders vertically and not horizontally. See Alex Elliot videos.
Sorry. Just trying to add clarity for the player to understand via video form of how I see movements actually function as opposed to just saying turn (which can mean many different things to players).
If you ever have any questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out. Happy to answer them in a more simplified format for you.
TS
Can I give a suggestion from a viewer video is a bit long I personally like anywhere from five to eight minutes think you could have broke this one into three
Thank you much for the feedback! I’ll take that into account for my next vids I shoot! Appreciate it a lot!