We read & hear people talk a lot about the dangers of transitioning too quickly to minimalist / zero-drop shoes. What about the reverse? What are the risks (and perhaps common injuries) resulting from moving to quickly from minimalist/zero-drop shoes to higher cushioned shoes (and often, but not necessarily, higher drop)?
I think minimalist vs max cushion, is too simplistic. There are 3, maybe 4 dimensions. 1. Cushioning, 2. heel to drop. 3. Toe box width 4. Rocker shape 5. Support.
Great discussion. Especially new to me is that the rocker shoe would load the forefoot... I thought only the hips. Also seems best to get a comfortable shoe! not to high or low midsole.. Brooks Hyperion Tempo or Kinvara.. Or something like that.. Topo Ultrafly-3 also comes to mind.
We have poor proprioception and have really struggled to get ground feel in our Triumphs and as a result are hitting the ground with more impact as our body seems to be fighting to find its place. Swap to Kinvara’s and completely different as mentioned by the example given on the treadmill. The analysis was almost like a different runner. I NEED the feedback from the ground and without it I seem to strike harder and I’ve been getting more pain in higher stack shoes
I started wearing barefoot shoes to work after a knee injury. After about two weeks I decided to try to run in them. I had no pain in my knee, but my feet and achilles were on fire. I then started running in Nike frees. I eventually started back running in regular shoes. The injury came back and the cause is because of my hips. I'm now doing strength excercises and cycling. I think the best solution is to run in both shoes and do strength excercises which I never use to do.
diversity of tactics, listening to your body, and if you change types go slow - all the while be strong before running. got it going to maybe just try running in a couple different pairs after listening! not a devout runner but trying to not fug myself up.
So perhaps a medium stack shoe, such as the Launch 8 (26, 16) or Kinvara (28, 24), could potentially be best bc the forces are spread more evenly while still getting enough shock absorption. Thx for the video!
Nah, it'd probably be better to have a shoe rotation with a variety of stack heights and drops in order to maximise the range of stimuli you expose the body to rather than only running in one type of shoe (assuming you don't have preexisting issues that force you into one camp or the other). Anecdotally, I had tons of foot and ankle niggles and injuries back when I did too much of my running in a New Balance Minimus, and then my lower legs were fine but I had hip trouble when I over-corrected and did all my running in a Brooks Ghost 12 and Nike Pegasus 36 (both medium to high stack, both high drop). Now I've gone almost an year with 0 injuries and only niggles that lasted 3 or fewer days since I diversified my shoe rotation to have a little bit of everything - a cushioned high drop daily trainer, a lower drop lower stack height shoe for faster stuff, an in-betweener with moderate cushion and moderate drop, and for the last few months I've also been using super minimalist shoes for a lot of my walking (Merrell Vapor Gloves). Gradual and conservative exposure to more varied stimuli should = more resilience. At the very least, trying out a diversified rotation like I described could allow a runner to better discern what works for their mechanics and body and allow them to make a more informed choice. I work in retail at the moment and you wouldn't believe the number of people who come in with very little running experience but insist on getting a specific shoe based on very little information and no knowledge of what works for their body.
Hey Alex, unfortunately it isn’t that clear cut yet. There was one prospective study that actually had a higher incidence of injury in those “partially minimal” shoes compared to minimal, maximal, and traditional. The idea behind it was that people’s mechanics and loading profiles treated them like higher cushioned shoes, but there wasn’t the actual cushioning or shaping to mitigate some of that loading. So loading amounts were highest in those shoes. But…it’s only one study.
I'm 220 pound runner and I find it's easier run in lower shoes (adidas adizero pro). I run max shoes like Clifton and I find I start supination. My weight start digging soft shoes in that way. No problem with lower shoes.
Great discussion guys. Have worn Vivobarefoot for years when walking (and experimented with running) but still find I get less soreness and hold up better overall with some good cushioning when running on hard surfaces for long distances. Do you find that cushioning at least absorbs some of the impact forces into the body, or disperses them over time (even if ground reaction forces remain equal or slightly higher)?
16:10 Matt's killer quote "To run, you have to be strong. You do not run to be in shape."
We read & hear people talk a lot about the dangers of transitioning too quickly to minimalist / zero-drop shoes. What about the reverse? What are the risks (and perhaps common injuries) resulting from moving to quickly from minimalist/zero-drop shoes to higher cushioned shoes (and often, but not necessarily, higher drop)?
13:00 Matt's "unavoidable balance of forces" point: The importance of stability (procioperception) vs shock absorption (cushion)
I think minimalist vs max cushion, is too simplistic. There are 3, maybe 4 dimensions. 1. Cushioning, 2. heel to drop. 3. Toe box width 4. Rocker shape 5. Support.
Toe bow width is just a myth by barefoot shoes company. I never seen a pair of barefoot shoes has same or more toe box room as a new balance 6e.
100% spot on. Very informative. For balance, I alternate shoe types....hedging my bets!
I mix my shoe use, stacked, zero, 10mm, 5mm. Works for me. I also learned after foot injury to work out my foot. You guys are great!
This channel is way undervalued. Just discovered it and enjoying it. Keep up the great work
I gain so much from your videos. Thank you!
Great discussion. Especially new to me is that the rocker shoe would load the forefoot... I thought only the hips. Also seems best to get a comfortable shoe! not to high or low midsole.. Brooks Hyperion Tempo or Kinvara.. Or something like that.. Topo Ultrafly-3 also comes to mind.
Thank you for this video. Much appreciated
We have poor proprioception and have really struggled to get ground feel in our Triumphs and as a result are hitting the ground with more impact as our body seems to be fighting to find its place. Swap to Kinvara’s and completely different as mentioned by the example given on the treadmill. The analysis was almost like a different runner. I NEED the feedback from the ground and without it I seem to strike harder and I’ve been getting more pain in higher stack shoes
I started wearing barefoot shoes to work after a knee injury. After about two weeks I decided to try to run in them. I had no pain in my knee, but my feet and achilles were on fire. I then started running in Nike frees. I eventually started back running in regular shoes. The injury came back and the cause is because of my hips. I'm now doing strength excercises and cycling. I think the best solution is to run in both shoes and do strength excercises which I never use to do.
diversity of tactics, listening to your body, and if you change types go slow - all the while be strong before running. got it
going to maybe just try running in a couple different pairs after listening! not a devout runner but trying to not fug myself up.
listen to your body. we are really good at ignoring, but if you just slow down and listen.. it's all there. i hear cannabis aids in this.
So perhaps a medium stack shoe, such as the Launch 8 (26, 16) or Kinvara (28, 24), could potentially be best bc the forces are spread more evenly while still getting enough shock absorption. Thx for the video!
Nah, it'd probably be better to have a shoe rotation with a variety of stack heights and drops in order to maximise the range of stimuli you expose the body to rather than only running in one type of shoe (assuming you don't have preexisting issues that force you into one camp or the other).
Anecdotally, I had tons of foot and ankle niggles and injuries back when I did too much of my running in a New Balance Minimus, and then my lower legs were fine but I had hip trouble when I over-corrected and did all my running in a Brooks Ghost 12 and Nike Pegasus 36 (both medium to high stack, both high drop). Now I've gone almost an year with 0 injuries and only niggles that lasted 3 or fewer days since I diversified my shoe rotation to have a little bit of everything - a cushioned high drop daily trainer, a lower drop lower stack height shoe for faster stuff, an in-betweener with moderate cushion and moderate drop, and for the last few months I've also been using super minimalist shoes for a lot of my walking (Merrell Vapor Gloves). Gradual and conservative exposure to more varied stimuli should = more resilience.
At the very least, trying out a diversified rotation like I described could allow a runner to better discern what works for their mechanics and body and allow them to make a more informed choice. I work in retail at the moment and you wouldn't believe the number of people who come in with very little running experience but insist on getting a specific shoe based on very little information and no knowledge of what works for their body.
Hey Alex, unfortunately it isn’t that clear cut yet. There was one prospective study that actually had a higher incidence of injury in those “partially minimal” shoes compared to minimal, maximal, and traditional. The idea behind it was that people’s mechanics and loading profiles treated them like higher cushioned shoes, but there wasn’t the actual cushioning or shaping to mitigate some of that loading. So loading amounts were highest in those shoes. But…it’s only one study.
@@rahelwijeyekoon9403 interesting insight, thx!
@@rahelwijeyekoon9403 Excellent insight. The way you said it makes sense, pick the tool for the right job...while remembering to "know thyself".
The kinvara 13 is a great lower drop shoe
I'm 220 pound runner and I find it's easier run in lower shoes (adidas adizero pro). I run max shoes like Clifton and I find I start supination. My weight start digging soft shoes in that way. No problem with lower shoes.
Great discussion guys. Have worn Vivobarefoot for years when walking (and experimented with running) but still find I get less soreness and hold up better overall with some good cushioning when running on hard surfaces for long distances. Do you find that cushioning at least absorbs some of the impact forces into the body, or disperses them over time (even if ground reaction forces remain equal or slightly higher)?
Want to get into running. What shoe do you reckoned starting out? Minimal or Maximum?