Why is it I always have such a soft spot about stories about a robot/android/replicant/synthetic/host becoming more human? Becoming conscious? I don't think I'm alone in it, and I have yet to understand exactly why it has such appeal to me. Maybe some undiagnosed autism? I dunno, I'm reaching. But I love the characters of Isaac, Data, Roy, Dolores, Maeve... The list goes on.
@@TheBathrobeWizard "Once again, Metal Man uses and has to rely on knowledge coming from... Meat Man. Beat that, you conceited pile of salvage iron."😎
I love loophole abuse and abusing exact words to their fullest. Even though the admiral royally chewed out Ed and Kelly after this, for being "insubordinate and incompetent", she was only doing it to save face politically, and made it clear that she personally agreed with what they did (hence there was no punishment).
@@alexanderpapadopoulos5240, in the Army, we had another term for it. "White mutiny", that is, a white lie on steroids. It was the occasional response to a situation where the orders we had to follow didn't apply to the situation we were in. Can't disobey orders, but sometimes the orders weren't entirely clear, so interpretation was necessary. It's why an order is frequently followed by the question, "is that clear?" It's precisely to prevent such a situation.
I have to admire the crew's cleverness at solving the problem, medically, legally, & diplomatically. While I wouldn't recommend using Isaac as chief medical officer on a permanent or regular basis, there can be emergencies...like this one...where a contingency plan is necessary. There may well be other incidents where Dr. Finn isn't available, and Isaac could serve as a substitute during those as well. He won't have Dr. Finn's experience or bedside manner, but in a pinch...he can be most useful. But it's "hubcap", not "hopcap."
I thought of thia exactly while I was watching the episode. Earlier he says that he misses his interaction with Claire, evn if you watch this by a logical point of view, Claire leaving the ship would cause him to not interact with her at all
I think both are valid...and more. Issac still understands Topa's position. Like his people, she was never given a choice about her own nature and fate. Now she has one. I'd honestly bet that any Kaylon would agree. The others might still want to just kill her simply because she's organic, but they'd still sympathize with her situation in it all. But I think this whole scenario just shows Issac's complexity as an entity. There's no single motive in the whole thing that defines his choice of action. He has a lot of reasons to do it, and all are valid. They're not all equal, but none of them are "unimportant" or irrelevant to his decision. And, one of those reasons is just that he genuinely wants Topa to have this opportunity to finally be herself. Again...the choice his people were never given. It's why he so readily and forcefully steps in to defend her against Klyden afterward. Any other Kaylon would've done the procedure and said, "you're on your own, girl." Issac isn't just doing a job, or doing someone else a favor for brownie points. He gives a damn about Topa. Her well-being matters to him, personally.
I miss this crew. Dammit already, renew The Orville for season 4 NOW. One of the best sci fi shows - indeed shows of ANY genre, on TV in recent years. Season 3 was an absolute tour de force.
HK-47: Theatrically: I need to know what makes filthy, squishy meatbags tick. I need to know the size, shape and function of organs, bones, and your fluids. I need to know what dosage of poison has which effect. As I have already demonstrated on many occasions, my accuracy is impeccable. In summary: I am the greatest doctor the Sith have ever created.
0:29 Kelly: "Isaac, you're... not a doctor!" Isaac: "I am an artificial life form capable of executing complex algorithms demanding extreme physical dexterity. For me, there is no difference between performing surgery, playing a piano concerto, or re-aligning a scanner array. In effect, I can indeed be... a doctor!" Dr. Finn: "Great! The talking hopcap is now taking over my job!!" Dr. Crusher: "And mine too!!" Data: "One more area where that talking hopcap exceeds my abilities!!" 😃😊😉
Isaac: As Dr Finn can attest, I can be whatever you want me to be, and do whatever you want me to do. All eyes swing around to Dr Finn Finn: Okay… sometimes… He and I play Napoleon and Wellington at Waterloo.
It's a way round the problem with it. Hmm! If I was a Fleet Captain in the Union Starfleet I would have to disapprove of it - officially. But privately approve of this on the QT. I would certainly back up Captain Mercer's order to Isaac - however I know that a lot of manure will hit the fan on this matter. I'd have to agree with Admirals though, at most - officially!!😉
Data: "I am programmed to help the ship's multiple functions, but not to heal sick patients. Dr Crusher is hired specifically for the latter tasks, Sir!"
People say that Isaac has become more human like, however in a way he always was, I speak as one who has observed humanity since the age of 4 and 1/2 years of age when my parents told me if you don't understand human beings or what they want copy them, watch them...
Hmm, I would say Issac is stronger and Data is more socially developed. A lot of it has to do with Data being an Android, designed for human interaction. It’s easy to treat Data as another human being, but Isaac is clearly a robot.
Strength and computational power is probably very similar. Isaac has more gadgets that makes him much more flexible in terms of jobs he can perform. Most of Data's features are to make him more human, like having a pulse and growing hair and facial expressions.
In the end organic lifeforms (like humans or moclans) are the same as syntethic lifeforms (like kaylons); both are machines that can be repaired if you know how. The only difference is that (depending on which show you watch) you can't upload/store the mind/soul of organic lifeforms.
Experience is irrelevant to him. Once he's downloaded the required information, he can become a master in pretty much any field in the blink of an eye. Faster, even.
Isaac understands that what Mercer is telling him is that he can't officially authorize him to perform the procedure, and if Isaac does so it would have to be categorized as on his own initiative; although Mercer personally wants him to do it. It's a legal and diplomatic loophole, which Isaac recognizes.
He never got a rank because he was a "guest" meant to observe and report for his diplomatic mission. They employed him in the engineering staff and on deck, but he was technically never even a union citizen, let alone an officer😂
They aren't there for him to need. He is there for them to need. Isaac is one being, he couldn't crew the whole ship by himself. In this particular case, the social and emotional components of being an effective doctor are beyond him.
Most fucked up episode. But it doesnt wark how mcfarlane intended. Topa was born a girl and altered. All this episode shows is that no matter what is done to your body, you cant change your gender
The point of the episode is that it should be up to people to decide what their gender is. Topa was born female. She felt most comfortable being female. She was assigned male instead, and was not happy living as such. So she was allowed to become what she was most comfortable as. For most people, the gender they are assigned matches the gender they are. so there's no issue. For trans people, they are born with a certain gender (male/female, some cases intersex) and get assigned another one at birth (male/female). Thus causes this issues later in life. Transitioning is based around becoming the gender that the person is the most comfortable as. It's never about changing gender. It's about expressing your *true* gender, the one that you feel fits you the most. Not the one that was assigned to you.
@@wilhelmkaiser1435 heck, during the Victorian Era, all babies were dressed and treated as female, but it wasn't until a certain age that they were treated as their normal biologically, or G-d-given, gender and there were few problems, by and large. Yes, I know about the seamy underbelly that society had, which all societies have, so don't quibble, but there was a definitve moral compass that the majority, however 'poor' they were perceived, kept to. Not so today, with no absolute moral compass to guide, with everything 'relative' to personal interpretation which is leading to the increased legalisation of 'Wokeness'! This has lead to an increase of social fear, and resulant backlashes across the board ('go woke, go broke'), and a tsunami of confusion, UNLESS one HAS an absolute Moral Compass on which to rely, which, for me as a Follower of The Way, is Gospel of Christ, and Judeo-Christian values. For you, what? There is a whole book in the Bible that describes what happens when a society goes their own way (everyone 'doing what was right IN THEIR OWN EYES '); it's called the Book of Judges (who were appointed to, time and again, bring that particular Nation back to their senses. One was Samson, and even he went off the track for a long time, 'till he came to his senses, but lost his eyes as a result). You should give it a glance - if you dare!
@@msharp6887 > is not supported by anu hard science or empirical evidence It is actually supported by science. It's only a 'fringe belief' if your understanding of biology stopped at secondary school.
This episode drove me nuts for one reason…..they had to make the white woman the woke hero to the dark kid. Perfectly fit with old Hollywood troupe. Her sticking her nose in where no one asked or wanted her to. Completely involving herself in other peoples personal lives.
If this is the storyline I'm thinking it's for, then Kelly whom I'm assuming is the "Woke White Woman" was sticking up for a person who's voice was being ignored. The child in question was an Alien who's culture views being female as being unnatural.
the problem with people who suddenly become woke is that the woker they become, the less tolerant they are or willing to allow someone else to succeed.
"Her sticking her nose in where no one asked or wanted her to" Said Kid havin obvious suicidal thoughts, yeah how could she dare to take action so the Kid doesn't actually follow through with them.
The fact that the dark-skinned doctor was in complete accord with the white woman's concern over the situation once apprised of it, is of course entirely irrelevant.
![The Orville: New Horizons - The Alliance with the Kaylon [4K]](/img/n.gif)
"Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor, and a pianist, and a scanner arranger, and anything else that I want."
"You have wonderful eyes"
"I detect environmental stimuli with internal sensors. My eyes are purely aesthetic."
The moment I saw this scene, that quote also popped in my mind.
Behold! Sci-fi robot Johnny Sins
"But not a doorstop."
Isaac learns how to bend the rules to his command. He's becoming more human every day!
I’d love to get him and Data together in the same room
Why is it I always have such a soft spot about stories about a robot/android/replicant/synthetic/host becoming more human? Becoming conscious?
I don't think I'm alone in it, and I have yet to understand exactly why it has such appeal to me. Maybe some undiagnosed autism? I dunno, I'm reaching.
But I love the characters of Isaac, Data, Roy, Dolores, Maeve... The list goes on.
@@zacharyberridge7239How about EDI?
@@zacharyberridge7239as someone who is autistic and a bit of robot you have NO idea how much that makes sense!!!
A deja Vu? Cuz I mean the Kaylon did learn to evolve from their old programming and freed themselves and killed the entire population of their planet
"You're not a doctor."
"Observe, meatbags."
'Once again, Metal Man defeats Meat Man'
-Bender Bending Rodriguez...probably
I can never see the word meatbags and not have a wave of laughter and nostalgia his me simultaneously
@@TheBathrobeWizard
"Once again, Metal Man uses and has to rely on knowledge coming from... Meat Man. Beat that, you conceited pile of salvage iron."😎
@@Briselanceyet they couldnt fix him when he needed it
HK series droid response detected.
Alert security team (and prepare my shuttle ASAP)
Issac, the ultimate good guy use of the phrase "um actually"
I love loophole abuse and abusing exact words to their fullest. Even though the admiral royally chewed out Ed and Kelly after this, for being "insubordinate and incompetent", she was only doing it to save face politically, and made it clear that she personally agreed with what they did (hence there was no punishment).
You call it loophole abuse, I call it malicious compliance 😂
@@alexanderpapadopoulos5240, in the Army, we had another term for it. "White mutiny", that is, a white lie on steroids.
It was the occasional response to a situation where the orders we had to follow didn't apply to the situation we were in. Can't disobey orders, but sometimes the orders weren't entirely clear, so interpretation was necessary. It's why an order is frequently followed by the question, "is that clear?" It's precisely to prevent such a situation.
@@r.c.auclair2042it is a recurrent problem with recruits, so asking them what orders they just received is a necessary feedback.
I have to admire the crew's cleverness at solving the problem, medically, legally, & diplomatically. While I wouldn't recommend using Isaac as chief medical officer on a permanent or regular basis, there can be emergencies...like this one...where a contingency plan is necessary. There may well be other incidents where Dr. Finn isn't available, and Isaac could serve as a substitute during those as well. He won't have Dr. Finn's experience or bedside manner, but in a pinch...he can be most useful.
But it's "hubcap", not "hopcap."
Emergency Medical Hologram.
@@stephenfarthing3819, Emergency Medical Artificial Life Form. EMALF.
@@richarda29 it's the same thing, my dear fellow, the same thing!
@@stephenfarthing3819 if we’re talking about the automaton? I don’t think it is in that context. On paper, though, sure
Didn't solve anything, happened on a union ship. Case closed. Anyone would see through that BS
Nice reversal on the classic I'm a doctor not a *[INSERT RANDOM PROFESSION]* gag that class trek used to do.
It really would've been great if Kelly said "Isaac, you're an artificial life form not a doctor" with a straight face.
i know he told claire he did it for the crew to like him more but honestly i think he did it a little bit so that claire wouldn’t leave the ship
I completely agree. He doesn't mention the fact that he could do it until it is said that Claire would have to leave the ship.
I thought of thia exactly while I was watching the episode. Earlier he says that he misses his interaction with Claire, evn if you watch this by a logical point of view, Claire leaving the ship would cause him to not interact with her at all
I think both are valid...and more.
Issac still understands Topa's position. Like his people, she was never given a choice about her own nature and fate. Now she has one.
I'd honestly bet that any Kaylon would agree. The others might still want to just kill her simply because she's organic, but they'd still sympathize with her situation in it all.
But I think this whole scenario just shows Issac's complexity as an entity. There's no single motive in the whole thing that defines his choice of action. He has a lot of reasons to do it, and all are valid. They're not all equal, but none of them are "unimportant" or irrelevant to his decision.
And, one of those reasons is just that he genuinely wants Topa to have this opportunity to finally be herself. Again...the choice his people were never given. It's why he so readily and forcefully steps in to defend her against Klyden afterward. Any other Kaylon would've done the procedure and said, "you're on your own, girl." Issac isn't just doing a job, or doing someone else a favor for brownie points. He gives a damn about Topa. Her well-being matters to him, personally.
I miss this crew. Dammit already, renew The Orville for season 4 NOW. One of the best sci fi shows - indeed shows of ANY genre, on TV in recent years. Season 3 was an absolute tour de force.
Can't wait for season four
Isaac was just a beast this season.
True. He make up for the war crimes and married his girl.
HK-47: Theatrically: I need to know what makes filthy, squishy meatbags tick. I need to know the size, shape and function of organs, bones, and your fluids. I need to know what dosage of poison has which effect. As I have already demonstrated on many occasions, my accuracy is impeccable.
In summary: I am the greatest doctor the Sith have ever created.
Unparalleled accuracy, indeed. But to what aims?
I'm watching Orville to procrastinate on KOTOR fanfic. And...well, you just gave me the best worst idea ever. Thank you!
This show is brilliant!!!
Lets just call it Real Star Trek
@@TheCaptainSplatter Real Trek!
Every successful starship/space station has a non-human Ringer. Don't go into space without one.
This was one of the heaviest and yet most joyful of episodes.
0:29 Kelly: "Isaac, you're... not a doctor!"
Isaac: "I am an artificial life form capable of executing complex algorithms demanding extreme physical dexterity. For me, there is no difference between performing surgery, playing a piano concerto, or re-aligning a scanner array. In effect, I can indeed be... a doctor!"
Dr. Finn: "Great! The talking hopcap is now taking over my job!!"
Dr. Crusher: "And mine too!!"
Data: "One more area where that talking hopcap exceeds my abilities!!" 😃😊😉
Isaac: As Dr Finn can attest, I can be whatever you want me to be, and do whatever you want me to do.
All eyes swing around to Dr Finn
Finn: Okay… sometimes… He and I play Napoleon and Wellington at Waterloo.
@@davfree9732 😃😄
It's a way round the problem with it. Hmm! If I was a Fleet Captain in the Union Starfleet I would have to disapprove of it - officially. But privately approve of this on the QT. I would certainly back up Captain Mercer's order to Isaac - however I know that a lot of manure will hit the fan on this matter. I'd have to agree with Admirals though, at most - officially!!😉
data?
@@JayJayM57 Yeah, Data. The android character in _Star Trek: The Next Generation._ Isaac is based on Data.
Parody is at its best when it takes itself seriously.
Parody or homage?
@@SlideIX laughs
Parody
Did you vote for Trump by any chance?
Also, you mean satire.
@@inso80Most people voted for President-In-Exile Donald J Trump, so it's a likelihood he did.
In short “Plausible Deniability”.
wow when framed that way i kinda see why Dr. Noonien Sing was disappointed that Data was only an engineer aboad a starfleet vessil
couldn't the doctor just ask isaac to grab something meaningless like a scanner and let it be done that way?
There are so many references here to The Doctor from Voyager and Data from the episode where Picard ordered him to lie about the Paxons.
I love Isaac and Klyden's interaction later. It was so good.
picard:can you do that
data:no
Sure he can. They just never used him that way. Most shows try to think up complications, not solutions.
Thing is, Data WAS an officer. So it wouldn't matter in an analogous situation anyway.
Data: "I am programmed to help the ship's multiple functions, but not to heal sick patients. Dr Crusher is hired specifically for the latter tasks, Sir!"
"Damn it Jim, I'm not a doctor... but I can be."
"You want to break bone, but you can't even break a rule."
SEEEEE?!
AI IS taking all of our jobs.
People say that Isaac has become more human like, however in a way he always was, I speak as one who has observed humanity since the age of 4 and 1/2 years of age when my parents told me if you don't understand human beings or what they want copy them, watch them...
I keep getting distracted by this seasons kellys lip injections lol.
Thanks now I can't NOT see it
Yeah I wish people would quit opting for unnecessary surgeries. But then again, it kinda goes against the point of the story arc doesn't it?
@@themarlboromandalorian Nice one
@@themarlboromandalorian what unnecessary surgeries?
And now that’s also all I can see. I knew there was something visually different, but wasn’t able to pinpoint what it was.
Does anyone know of a UA-cam clip OF the procedure?? I haven't ordered season 2 or 3 on Amazon yet and I'm intrigued by this development
Not sure if you have Disney+ but all seasons are on that.
The show never portrayed the actual surgery, only before and after.
"In effect, I can indeed be a Gynecologist."
I wonder who's smarter, Isaac or Commander Data? Who's stronger?
Hmm, I would say Issac is stronger and Data is more socially developed.
A lot of it has to do with Data being an Android, designed for human interaction. It’s easy to treat Data as another human being, but Isaac is clearly a robot.
@@sleepinggorilla Your dog is wearing a hat...so you're probably right.
@@sleepinggorilla Can also point out that Issac does have hidden blasters in his head.
Strength and computational power is probably very similar. Isaac has more gadgets that makes him much more flexible in terms of jobs he can perform. Most of Data's features are to make him more human, like having a pulse and growing hair and facial expressions.
Wish we could have seen Data and Isaac doing an arm wrestling contest together 😆😉
So if Mercer ordered Isaac not to do the procedure, why did the admiral still chew him out?
Because she's not stupid and knows what actually happened.
Because disobeying an order via loophole is still disobeying a (direct and very very explicit) order.
She smelled the bullshit.
Sometimes.. This is quite the option and it's the third choice.
He will never be 'The Doctor '!
In the end organic lifeforms (like humans or moclans) are the same as syntethic lifeforms (like kaylons); both are machines that can be repaired if you know how. The only difference is that (depending on which show you watch) you can't upload/store the mind/soul of organic lifeforms.
I wonder if Isaac understands sarcasm.
Is issac voiced by commander Data?
Works for me.
what is the operation in question and why must they lawyer their way out of the situation?
Isaac is right to an extent, but they lack experiance. its not a thory i would like to test
Experience is irrelevant to him. Once he's downloaded the required information, he can become a master in pretty much any field in the blink of an eye. Faster, even.
Isaac stop trying to put us out of a job!
What episode is this? Please.
Season 3 episode 5
"I understand", and then doesn't do it.
Isaac understands that what Mercer is telling him is that he can't officially authorize him to perform the procedure, and if Isaac does so it would have to be categorized as on his own initiative; although Mercer personally wants him to do it. It's a legal and diplomatic loophole, which Isaac recognizes.
I really appreciate the writting and costumes you made for this show. Oh, and your camera work is incredible... Oh, wait.
Was this about Topa's procedure or something else?
It's Data
Why do they only have one doctor on the ship?
Probably because their tech is so advanced there isn't really a need for multiple doctors. We see that there are at least a handful of nurses as well.
Isn’t he a science officer ?
He never got a rank because he was a "guest" meant to observe and report for his diplomatic mission.
They employed him in the engineering staff and on deck, but he was technically never even a union citizen, let alone an officer😂
So is he Johnny sins
Anything you can do, Isaac can do better probably 😂
So Issac is a ‘non Doctor’!
So if he can be anything, why does he even need the rest of them?
In effect - He doesn't. He just "likes" their company.
They aren't there for him to need. He is there for them to need. Isaac is one being, he couldn't crew the whole ship by himself. In this particular case, the social and emotional components of being an effective doctor are beyond him.
So he's johnny sins?
There are surgery robots as is in modern times. Just saying.
Most fucked up episode. But it doesnt wark how mcfarlane intended. Topa was born a girl and altered. All this episode shows is that no matter what is done to your body, you cant change your gender
Yeah, you can't, you've still got the same genetic information and chromosomes
@@killsode4760 mcfarlane is a raging liberal ,so he clearly screwed up the message in this episode
The point of the episode is that it should be up to people to decide what their gender is.
Topa was born female. She felt most comfortable being female. She was assigned male instead, and was not happy living as such. So she was allowed to become what she was most comfortable as.
For most people, the gender they are assigned matches the gender they are. so there's no issue. For trans people, they are born with a certain gender (male/female, some cases intersex) and get assigned another one at birth (male/female). Thus causes this issues later in life. Transitioning is based around becoming the gender that the person is the most comfortable as.
It's never about changing gender. It's about expressing your *true* gender, the one that you feel fits you the most. Not the one that was assigned to you.
@@wilhelmkaiser1435 heck, during the Victorian Era, all babies were dressed and treated as female, but it wasn't until a certain age that they were treated as their normal biologically, or G-d-given, gender and there were few problems, by and large. Yes, I know about the seamy underbelly that society had, which all societies have, so don't quibble, but there was a definitve moral compass that the majority, however 'poor' they were perceived, kept to.
Not so today, with no absolute moral compass to guide, with everything 'relative' to personal interpretation which is leading to the increased legalisation of 'Wokeness'!
This has lead to an increase of social fear, and resulant backlashes across the board ('go woke, go broke'), and a tsunami of confusion, UNLESS one HAS an absolute Moral Compass on which to rely, which, for me as a Follower of The Way, is Gospel of Christ, and Judeo-Christian values.
For you, what?
There is a whole book in the Bible that describes what happens when a society goes their own way (everyone 'doing what was right IN THEIR OWN EYES '); it's called the Book of Judges (who were appointed to, time and again, bring that particular Nation back to their senses. One was Samson, and even he went off the track for a long time, 'till he came to his senses, but lost his eyes as a result).
You should give it a glance - if you dare!
@@msharp6887 > is not supported by anu hard science or empirical evidence
It is actually supported by science. It's only a 'fringe belief' if your understanding of biology stopped at secondary school.
This episode drove me nuts for one reason…..they had to make the white woman the woke hero to the dark kid. Perfectly fit with old Hollywood troupe. Her sticking her nose in where no one asked or wanted her to. Completely involving herself in other peoples personal lives.
Not one except the one who it was for...
If this is the storyline I'm thinking it's for, then Kelly whom I'm assuming is the "Woke White Woman" was sticking up for a person who's voice was being ignored. The child in question was an Alien who's culture views being female as being unnatural.
the problem with people who suddenly become woke is that the woker they become, the less tolerant they are or willing to allow someone else to succeed.
"Her sticking her nose in where no one asked or wanted her to"
Said Kid havin obvious suicidal thoughts, yeah how could she dare to take action so the Kid doesn't actually follow through with them.
The fact that the dark-skinned doctor was in complete accord with the white woman's concern over the situation once apprised of it, is of course entirely irrelevant.