Interview With Pastor Jeff - What Does He Really Believe About The Book of Mormon?
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
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In this episode Hayden and Jackson ask the hard questions that many of you have had in regard to Pastor Jeff from the popular UA-cam channel Hello Saints.
Although our main focus on this channel is The Book of Mormon, with the recent controversy in regard to Pastor Jeff's true intentions with his UA-cam channel, we thought it appropriate to question him along this line. We discuss grace and works, whether he believes Latter-day Saints are saved and much much more.
00:00 Intro
04:25 Response to Controversy/True Intentions
23:50 Do You Believe Latter-Day Saints Are Saved?
29:42 Belief Progression After Death
38:48 Belief On Works and Grace
56:05 Why Do You Believe In The Bible?
01:03:24 Thoughts On The Book of Mormon
01:29:22 Do You Want To Convert Latter Day Saints?
The Stick of Joseph UA-cam channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
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Instead of saying “We don’t believe in the same Jesus,” I’d much rather prefer it be said, “We don’t believe the same things about Jesus.” This is a sticking point for me.
Agreed. We're both basing our beliefs on the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth, just coming to different conclusions about Him.
I like your perspective on that, Jacob. I’m going to remember that because that rings so true to me.
@@daffodilfleur thank you!
No, it is more accurate to say that we don't believe in the same Jesus. You believe Jesus is a created being. Jesus was not created, He is God in the flesh. John Chapter 1 could could not be more clear on this. John 1:1-2, 14. It is that simple.
Yes that’s a great way of putting it.
Thank you for this video. I am a Catholic that is currently reading the Book of Mormon. I have found the Book of Mormon to be a fantastic read.
That's great! It truly is fantastic, where are you reading now?
@@JimmyJBraddock Mosiah Chapter 16
@@zachdavis7536 Ah awesome! Abinadi, what an amazing Prophet he was!
You will be joining the cult soon...
@@johndavolta3124 I joined and it's the coolest thing that has ever happened to me!
Great conversation gentleman!
I grew up Mormon, fell away for many years, and through troubles in life and alcoholism I turned to Alcoholics Anonymous.. that was a rebirth! It led me next to reading the New Testament and what Jesus taught, I was enamored! I then had to read The Book Of Mormon, and I couldn’t deny the depth and harmony it has with the New Testament! I’m still learning
But I am amazed where god has led me… thank you guys, and pastor Jeff for your channel’s and diving into the deep questions! God be with you!
Thanks for sharing that! Send me an email and I’d love to hear more of your story over the phone! Hayden@thestickofjoseph.com
Yes, but if you would have been born to Islam parents, you would be Islamic.
Every Church of every denomination has former LDS members who went through the temple and later left the Mormons. All the temple secrets have been told
The difference I see between LDS and other Christians is that the good done by an LDS member will somehow earn them their own planet and never-ending sex with countless wives. True Christians live for the Glory of Christ.
As a former LDS addict myself I always felt the Holy Ghost when I needed it. It got me through some tough times. And I made it out. 🙏
I love Pastor Jeffs testimony, he is a beautiful person and a wonderful believer. ❤
"We are past the days where we can be a lukewarm believer!" I love that statement!
As a convert to the church, I love Hello Saints because it does provide those who have been born into the church and may not have had an opportunity to experience other Christian churches. It is also great to strengthen my own testimony of the rightness and truth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
There is absolute zero Biblical truth to the Godless cult of mormonism.
Why should we want to "experience other Christian churches?? We must know all the details of all 43,000 false doctrine denominations?
@@nonrepublicrat ,...There is no church/denomination that is more antigod/antibiblcal/antichrist than the cult of mormonism. The mormons are the absolute pinnacle of the accursed of God and the blind, lost, and the deceived.
@@nonrepublicrat I believe there is some truth in many religious beliefs. Knowing how others believe allows us to have informed conversations. But at the end of the day it is certainly your decision as to what you will do. Hello Saints opens up a dialogue between The Church of Jesus Christ and other Christian denominations. Like, the LDS church isn't the only church to baptize by full immersion. The difference, baptism in our church is done by someone who has the authority to do so. But that is something a friend and life long member of the church didn't know. Understanding that there may be part of the truth given to other denominations makes the lines of communication clearer. But you do as you feel led to do. I was simply stating my opinion.
@@nonrepublicratwhy wouldn’t you want to be like Christ and understand and love others not of our religion?
Fantastic interview.. I’m a 50 year LDS convert from age 18 that came to know Jesus in a devout Evangelical home. Jesus is what it all about… All three of you do as well and are engaged in work where He is leading you. I follow both of your channels and watch all of your videos. Without a single thread of doubt in my heart, I wholeheartedly support the goals of both of your endeavors.
Pastor Jeff, thank you for your honesty and decency. I love your videos and take you totally on your word. Brothers of the church, thank you for defending our friend who I honor as a master bridge builder in the hands of the Lord. Both of your initiatives are preparing the world for the Return of our Savior… and the challenges and opportunities that await the followers of OUR Savior.
Together we are stronger and more One with Him as we all together await that Glorious Day. Love you guys. Keep up your blessed missions.
I couldn’t agree more. “Together we are stronger” perfectly said and we should continue to build bridges!
Love your words!!! Truth spoken! Thank you ❤️🤗
Love your comment, too!!! ❤
As an evangelical, I appreciate the way you both approached the interview. Well done on setting a good example of how to tackle these dialogues! Looking forward to more from you guys in the future.
You, like the mormons have nothing whatsoever to do with the God of the Bible. Repent!
Agreed! I am also an evangelical just trying to understand what the LDS church believes because I have family members that are members of the LDS church. Previously I have only found criticism but in Jeff I have found only someone that wants to explore. The times he contrasts what the two faiths believe is enlightening and brings us to an understanding. I don’t understand the hate leveled against clarity.
@@hornblat ,...Jeff is not a Christian nor is anyone that thinks he is. Mormonism is an absolute fake manmade ungodly abomination. No Christian explores the abomination of mormonism. They speak out against it, and rebuke it boldly.
The truth is that you wished Jeff converts everyone in the lds church including the prophet to evangelical. I am LDS, and I've learned to shun evil communication. I also have a background in communication, so I know what you guys are doing.
@@The_Man_Chidi ,...What the Godless, blind, lost, and deceived people snared into the Godless cult of mormonism shun it the truth of the Bible. The only thing a mormon will never believe nor understand is the truth of the Bible. Mormons are the accursed of God as anyone with eyes to see can eaisly see and understand.
When I hear the explanations from Pastor Jeff, which always seem confusing it just affirms my own belief. I’m more convinced than ever that the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints is the one and only true church on the earth while loving my fellow Christian brothers and sisters!
Pastor Jeff is prophecy. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He professes to build bridges of understanding. He is actually building Exit bridges to his beliefs and become a follower of him.
Now he has moved to Utah. That is where the prophecy applies. Jeff, is the evil prophesied to lead members away. The world ends, "As we know it" in 47 years. Prophesies are being fulfilled like the speed of trees loosing their leaves.
Me, too. Our church has more logical explanations that I feel backed up by the Holy Spirit. I use to be Catholic and was glad to find an eternal view that made so much more sense from the missionaries.
@@sherryware We would disagree: you're trying to pull people out of our churches and claim you're Christian: that is actually what a wolf in sheep's clothing does!
@@davidjanbaz7728 "trying to pull people out"? No one is pulling people out. No one pulled me out of the Catholic church, I was disillusioned with things that didn't make sense and when I listened to the missionaries, it made perfect sense. I kept thinking this is too good to be true, and kept waiting for some weird or crazy thing to come up and it hasn't yet in 40 years. I think I'm safe here and so do many people worldwide every day who are blessed enough to find this church through our great missionary work.
You took the words right out of my mouth!
"Brothers and sisters, we can literally change the world-one person and one interaction at a time. How? By modeling how to manage honest differences of opinion with mutual respect and dignified dialogue." -Russell M Nelson. This is wonderful!
The lights came on for me at age 31 and I became a disciple of Jesus Christ. That experience is real and essential. A bigger and better experience came for me at age 56, the bapism of fire and the Holy Ghost. This is what makes us true saints. Pray for Jeff and other great disciples like him to come into the fullness of the Gospel and be completely transformed as so many of us have been. Disciples can't know what it means to be a saint until they become saints. This greatest gift is given when you truly follow Jesus, and for a lot of Saints, that is on your mission. When we die to ourselves and make our lives a living sacrifice for others.
We have the fullness of the Authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ: you're counterfeit isn't more light.
What is counterfeit? I am a Latter Day Saint. Not so sure about you with a comment like that.@@davidjanbaz7728
@@ctcsadboc22 actually getting you're attention is the first step : until you wake up you cannot even start to understand why Mormonism is a counterfeit: you may not like my accurate criticism as it's Based on What the Bible actually says about your false prophets coming in the Latter Days: no coincidence those two words R in you're official name!
But you have probably made oaths to familiar spirits in you're temple and ware a garment of protection from those Free masion rituals that keep you Spiritually blind to the TRUE Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Those symbols on you're underwear aren't Christian but anti Christian and just being nice won't cut through those demonic protections.
Jesus has a sword in his mouth which is a symbolic picture of judgment and righteousness: Jesus spoke very sharply to the Pharasees in their counterfeit Judaism just as I do to you're counterfeit church: so I am following Jesus tactics !
BTW I'm praying 4 you too : to see the TRUE light of Jesus Christ and NOT follow the Angel of light ( haSatan) that Joseph Smith saw in 8 changing first vision accounts!
@@ctcsadboc22 I know that my sins have been forgiven. I know that I have been made perfect because Christ had given to me his righteousness, which is the righteousness of God. I know that I have eternal life and will live forever with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
I have peace with God by faith.
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 🕊 ❤
@@ctcsadboc22
Joseph Smith and every LDS prophet since him have preached a gospel of “do,” negating the gospel of “done” that Jesus preached and was. The LDS church is all about what it and its members must still do and be if they want to live with God (and be a god) one day.
The true church is all about proclaiming what Christ has DONE to make us right with God now for all eternity. It’s a certainty.
Jesus Christ canceled the record of debt that was held against us when He shed his blood, on the cross, died and rose again. All you need to do is accept Christ by faith. It isn't because of who you are and what you must do for God. It is because of who God is and what He did for you in sending Jesus to be the sacrificial offering for your sins. To be your substitute on the cross and to satisfy the demands of God's law that stands against you.
Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile you to God. Christ has done the one act of righteousness that could bring justification and life to all men. All Christ is asking with open arms is for you to lay down your religiosity and works at the foot of the cross and allow Christ to take it.
Salvation is quite simple.
Luke 18 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’
13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’
14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Has pastor Jeff been introduced to Jared Halverson - his UA-cam channel UNSHAKEN has changed my life. Halverson has dedicated his life studies to knowing ALL religions do he can help people in a faith crisis! So grateful to be introduced to your channel!!! You two are very impressive young men!! Good job!!
Evangelical Christian who lives in Utah. Great interview and so thankful to everyone involved for extending an open heart and mind to each other. When I moved to Utah I was deeply saddened to see how some Evangelical were treating/viewing people in the LDS faith. It’s very obvious some are coming from a place of pride and judgment.
That’s not my Jesus!
As someone who did not understand much about the LDS before moving here I have learned so much from Pastor Jeff in a way that is productive and bridge building between two different faiths. Lord Bless!
Thank you for sharing!!
Listening to Pastor Jeff helps me appreciate what i have in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint. Thank guys, i really enjoyed watching this
Same. I love the gospel so much.
Paster Jeff is truly sad how he talks in circles .
Check out Jeff Durbin’s conversation’s with lds
This guy is amazing. Breaking down walls and teaches how to understand each other better. He’s always very respectful.
As an older member of the church 50's I know that the evangelical church has openly commented against our church for many many years and today is no different! Pastor Jeff isn't going to leave preaching job he gets paid to do, for our church ❗️🙄💲It's not going to happen, so it's not a true investigation of our church ❗️
This was a great discussion and I, as an Evangelical Christian, appreciate the discussion from all of you. Thanks for posting this video.
Something that was glaringly omitted from the conversation for me, was an explanation as to what an evangelical Christian is?
@@sharoncsanki6872 You may ask. but there are 100+ different answers to that question. I remember 48 years ago I was baptised into the Brethren church which is part of the Evangelical family. More often than not, at Bible Study, someone would make a comment and they would be criticised as it was a belief that came from another Evangelical church. Then you would get other criticisms about that church. In short, the various denominations didn't like each other and even some of them were condemned to hell. The most vitriol was reserved for the 'mormons'. They were satan's spawn. They are the most hated. I know it is similar today but Jeff seems to have found a method that allows him to criticise the Church, unhinged some of the weaker members and do it with a smile.
Jeff has the title of 'Pastor', that's his occupation, yet he left his little flock of about 25 members so as he could go to the centre of his new fans because he realised he could get more paying customers there. So if you ask me what Jeff believes, I would say just listen carefully to what he says. In a video, 'Pastor's take on Joseph Smith' he gives the Prophet 2 back-handed compliments and 27 criticisms, all in just 9 minutes. In his last criticism of Joseph he claimed his LDS fans were better than Joseph and obviously he was too. He really does maintain a superiority complex and everything he believes is right and everyone who opposes him is wrong.
@@sharoncsanki6872that would be a good topic for a second video. We Messianic Jews view Gentile Christians as wild olives grafted onto the Natural Vine and us Messianic Jews as natural olives being regrafted back onto the Natural Olive Tree. Many of us trace back to Jacobus/James the brother of the Savior.
Definitely an interesting topic for a second interview.
@@sharoncsanki6872 the website for the National Evangelical Association gives a good definition.
As a member of The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint's, I'm not convinced Pastor Jeff is taking a real look at my faith. Pastor Jeff, gets paid to preach, he would never leave his lively hood, to join the church! Our Bishop and fellow church members don't get paid at all. We don't believe in that. However as a member of the church we are very aware of the churches that don't like us, and the evangelicals are among the churches that say we are going to hell. Pastor Jeff came to Utah to save us from the church, I guess he doesn't seem to think we are capable of thinking for ourselves!
In my church we don't have classes teaching to hate other people's churches ! Instead we believe everyone has free agency to choose what church they will attend! We are incredibly respectful! Wish other churches in general would do the same! David Alexander on UA-cam has very interesting views 🤔 on the church! If you are interested!
It’s interesting that both Mormons and Evangelical Protestants feel these discussions strengthen their faith. I’m Catholic and they strengthen mine, too.
How is this faith strengthening??
@@nonrepublicrat ,...Well, you must understand you are asking this question to one who is completely spiritually dead and blind. He has absolute zero faith in the God of the Bible. This has only strengthened his faith in his deception.
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed😂😂😂😂😂
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 ,...Well, the fact is, you will not be laughing on judgement day. Your laughing will turn to weeping and gnashing of teeth when you find out how absolutely deceived you were.
The mormons, and the catholics have nothing whatsoever to do with the God, the Jesus, the gospel, nor the Christianity of the Bible. Nor does anyone who thinks they do.
The protestant church is also 100% apostate and completely outside of the kingdom of God. There is no Biblical truth found in anything called the church. The home of all those snared into everything that claims to be Christian is the lake of fire. The Bibles Christianity is 100% outside of everything called the church. Repent!
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed
you Evangelicals are so Christ-like. LDS you hate the most, followed by Catholics, followed by Jehovahs Witnesses, followed by Seventh Day Adventists,....followed by one sect of Lutheranism, then the other sect, then every other denomination of christianity, right through the 30,000+ that isn't your own. Eventually, you will hate your own.
Love Pastor Jeff! I’ve never expected him to move in his faith just as I’m not moving in mine but Jeff has reached out in a way I’ve never experienced from an evangelical pastor. I love learning from him and feel I understand evangelical theology better than I ever have.
Hope this helps. God bless.
Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none
Evidence showing the Bible is true and the Book of Mormon is not true:
No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple as grand as Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, none of the 38 cities mentioned (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings, no middle eastern seeds, "which we had brought from the land of Jerusalem. And it came to pass that they did grow exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24, and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed.
There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7)
“Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America.
The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne. 13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 They were brought to America centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool.
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a curious claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away. (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25).
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors.
Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. If the corruption thus appeared before first century, it would have been corrected by Jesus. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not.
They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. This scroll could not have been touched by the Catholics. Also this scroll is a Jewish production, and the Book of Mormon claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity".
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham was forced to the conclusion that the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the Book of Mormon. Mormon apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of Brigham Young University, had to admit that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the Book of Mormon but uphold the validity of the bible.
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE?
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. Like Joseph Smith this was also the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years and preserved most of the book of John. (this papyri was written around 150 AD, not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious blasphemous changes. Also, there are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. The best of these go back to somewhere about AD 350 and none support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Considerable fragments remain of papyrus copies of books of the New Testament dated from 100 to 200 years earlier still and show that the new testament we have is reliable. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17
In the LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. He explains: It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons…. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 And, Matthew 24:24 warns us that Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. Mathew 7:15
It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3:3-5 Joseph Smith sold the same lie.
Also, the leaders of the LDS Church have taught that their Jesus was married, had children, and was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, says in The Seer, page 172, says, “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, … The son followed the example of his Father"
You understand Evangelical theology, you say. Well you are doing better than all of the 30,000+ christian church denominations that don't see eye to eye on doctrine. Well done you. I'll tell you the bit I understand as I used to be part of their confused madness. I understand that Jeff's god will punish everyone who didn't 'ask Jesus into their heart' by condemning them to burn in a pit forever, without relief. That includes LDS, that includes children, that includes Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, those born before Jesus was on the earth, those who lived in areas that didn't know about Jesus and those who heard about Jesus but the message given to them by Evangelicals but was rejected because it was confusing and lightweight... they will all be burning together, forever, without end and with no relief but to scream and gnash their teeth and to curse Jeff's god.
You just can't help but love the perfectly loving god that Jeff loves. Right? You know the same god who shed his blood on the cross even though there is nowhere in the Bible that said he shed his blood on the cross. (Read the 4 Gospels and see for yourself) Jeff, like all other Evangelicals, was taught this misinformation in the same way they were taught about the 3 wise men and many other things that are not true.
When you are burning, dont worry as Jeff will be waving at you with a big smile on his face.
From the stats he mentioned, it seems that saints are learning more about evangelicals than they are of us, which is a missed opportunity for them.
@@sharoncsanki6872 very true unfortunately.
@@sharoncsanki6872 Here is a stat for you. 95% of his 50k+ subscribers are inexperienced and struggling members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are lambs that we should be looking out for and helping. Jeff is doing nothing to bring the 60+ million Evangelicals together with the 16+ million LDS together. He is only bringing himself together with about 47,000 LDS lambs. The rest of the world have never heard of him.
He has nothing to teach you about Scripture and knowing about his unbiblical denomination will do nothing for you but may affect the truth you have already been taught.
The Prophet, Elder Nelson, recently told us to think celestial, something Jeff's religion doesn't acknowledge. He also told us, "Please do not take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust from Prophets, Seers, Revelators and the whispering of the Holy Ghost". He teaches another gospel than the Gospel the Saviour gave us to teach. Unfortunately, that makes Him an antichrist ("Anyone or anything that counterfeits the true Gospel plan of salvation"). Jeff does not believe the truth the Saviour gave us.
Let me expand a little. Has Jeff, through faith and repentence, been baptised by one who holds authority?
Has Jeff received the Gift of the Holy Ghost to teach him the meaning of the scriptures that he may teach others?
The reason there are 30,000+ denominations that don't see eye to eye with each other is because they don't understand the scriptures spiritually, but with their own worldly mind.
Does he hold the Priesthood that permits and enables him to act in the name of God?
Has he been called to do a work of God, as was Aaron? Heb 5:4
Is the creed (doctrine and beliefs) he holds to, an abomination in the sight of the Lord? Ref. The First Vision.
Does his understanding of the nature of God, the Trinity, bear any semblance to the understand of the God whom we know?
When he reviews something, his normal response is to imply that the thing was plagiarised from the Bible or to frown and say, "this doesn't sit well with me or the gospel". How do you think this would affect one of our lambs who is already in need of help because they think living the Gospel is difficult and just need some more teaching and support?
Look, I'm older than you and I've worked with some of the evilest people out there. I've worked closely with a charming man to his family and friends who killed over 30 people. He knew all the right things to say, he was seductive and he was very clever. I'm not saying that Jeff is in that category but his motives are no purer than the like of Nehor or Sherem who have similarities in some of their teachings.
Lastly, but I could go on, Jeff's god, in his anger, will consign all those who did not utter the magic words "Jesus come into my heart", to an eternal burning in a pit without relief. That includes you and I, our families and friends, Catholics, most Protestant religions, Buddists, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, children and babies...all suffering while their god turns his back and forgets we ever existed.
We do not need an understanding of any other religion. They will not help us become like the Saviour.
That's what you are dealing with.
Follow the Prophet and seek your counsel from who will draw you closer to the Saviour, not further away.
As an atheist who's been deep in conversation learning about the church this was a super interesting conversation.
You’re here on Earth because you chose God’s plan, so you’re not a follower of Satan. Lol
How do we know a person CHOSE God’s plan and then ends up on earth! Where is the backup for this belief?
@@sandrasherritt9708 faith.
@@sandrasherritt9708 also the Bible mentions that God knew us before we were put on the earth and the war in heaven is discussed in Revelation. We were the angels in the war in heaven.
@@user-fu6es5so7s Because God knew us before, does not mean to me that we were the angels in heaven. I don't think so. I don't think there is anything that we know that backs up the belief that we CHOSE God's plan, until such time as we were on earth, heard the gospel of Jesus at some point and THEN CHOSE HIM, as i did when I was six years old in Sunday School, when invited by a precious Christian woman who taught us about Jesus. I realize that this discussion could go on until Jesus comes again, but do we really want to do that "on=line"? I do appreciate your right to believe what you do, just as I would expect you to do the same for me. If your parents had not been Mormon, most likely, neither would you be. If my momma had been Muslim, it is likely that I would be Muslim. I have two great grandchildren who are being raised Mormon by their single father and his family. The little 7 year old had a problem with her aunt (my daughter) drinking iced tea. Really? She questioned why she was drinking iced tea, however, the family drinks Mountain Dew by the caseload.
There are two types of Christians.
1. Those who are WAITING, for the 2nd Coming.
2. Latter Day Saints who are PREPARING, the 2nd Coming.
I've followed Jeff since his very first video. Never once did I ever assume he'd convert or anything of the like. In fact, if he did convert, I think his channel would need to end. His outside perspective is necessary for growth of our members - stretching beyond their comfort - and he's great at providing that.
This kind of respectful dialog between Latter Day Saints and Evangelicals is something I've longed to see for over 30 years. I'm a Book of Mormon believer, but not LDS. That's an awkward place to be because you tend to feel attacked from both sides. At the end when Paster Jeff said that helping each other in spite of our theological differences is pleasing to Jesus, that was music to my ears. I 100% believe that.
I have family that are Community of Christ so I completely get you. Want to see an interesting discussion come to our family reunions when we get to hear about why Ellen G White and not Joseph Smith or why Joseph Smith and not Ellen G White. Or why Brigham Young and not Joseph Smith III.
In fact half of my family members that believe in the Book of Mormon are Community of Christ.
This IS really good to listen to. It helps me confirm that the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, through the prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, is true. I love listening to David Alexander as he puts all the wonderful pieces of the Bible together with the Restored Gospel and how beautifully it all fits together.
It’s just majestic
Second chance theory?
Obviously Pastor Jeffs referrence book is limited so his understanding about baptism is limited but The New testament clearly states that Christ is our perfect example about baptism. So why would Pastor Jeff twist the importance of baptism?
@@crisantocabrerajr.3508 Lots of Protestants do. If nothing can keep us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord, surely that also means the lack of baptism cannot keep us from Him. There are other justifications too, going all the way back to Martin Luther minimizing the role the institutional Church plays in salvation and formulating the ideas of "sola scriptura" and "the priesthood of all believers". The importance of ordinances was a casualty of the Protestant Reformation - it's not a view unique to Pastor Jeff.
The fact is, the bom is a 100% fake manmade fraud. joseph smith was nothing but a con artist, and his 100% fake religion/cult is an absolute abomination.
Let Pastor Jeff have his own personal journey. The Church and the members in it do not need him to join in order for the Church to be validated. We're not waiting around for him to approve us.
His snarky rude comments and him acting as if he's interested in the church is a lie
Thank you! This was the best video of any that pastor Jeff has done either on his own or with other Latter Day Saints! You asked all the right questions that I’ve had for months now, and his answers were honest and authentic, while maintaining deep respect for those things we hold sacred. Though many of his answers clarify and strengthen the very specific reasons, and even the “deal breakers“ to use his words, regarding all non LDS forms of Christianity, that as a convert 25 years ago, I chose the restored church over the theology he teaches, I still deeply appreciate his commitment to and testimony of Christ. The testimony he bore at the end, per your inspired request, was absolutely perfect and right on. We all need reminding of his words that it’s not about religion, it’s about relationship with Christ! Thank you again.
The true church of Jesus Christ still matters the light, the truth it's Jesus Christ church
@@mahonri69 My church is false????
I’m an inactive LDS member. 67 years old. Been slammed many times by evangelicals in my life for belonging to a cult etc. several of them believe they are okay to sin because they have faith alone. No work required . If work is not required why bother being good?
OK Annie, I gotta ask, why are you inactive, sounds like you know the truth?. Whats keeping you home on Sundays?
I totally agree with you🔥🔥. If we were saved just like that then what's the difference between Good and evil? Nothing for those with that mentality. I mean they even go after their own. There's no love in that religion
Sadly many evangelicals do believe this. They aren’t correctly taught by many pastors.
You're ignorance is overwhelming: Repentance is turning 180 degrees away from sin and SIN isn't OK : you're strawmaning is typical of Mormons.
Annie you are special to your Heavenly Father andwante you to hang on, it was one of your most precious gifts you will ever have. We love you and want you not to give up. Carol
I've been commenting in other videos about the issue that no one seems to address, especially those who claim our concerns are ridiculous (I know you said you used strong language mistakenly but I believe you made clear your stance is still the same). The Pastor claims to fight criticism with curiosity, that is the stated goal of the channel, yet the actual content of the channel is the opposite. Pastor, you spend your time criticizing and pointing out the errors of our ways while claiming biblical truth is on your side (I'd argue it is your erroneous evangelical interpretation of scripture and not the truth) as if LDS don't believe the Bible. That is the constant theme. You should be honest in your purpose and say that your channel is to proselytize and prove LDS wrong in a nice way. This is the problem I have pointed out and many others also see with your channel. I think most of us concerned see the disconnect in your purpose with your actual content and rightly get concerned with what you're doing because it is frankly disingenuous. If you simply restated your motto/purpose to the truth no one could complain one bit. It is that bait and switch that most of us see problematic.
You also say things like "I am reading every word of the Book of Mormon" as you go but when it comes time to analyze or criticize, you omit the things that would undermine your arguments. That is also very disingenuous and unchristlike. One example I've stated because it was just so blatant was when reading Jacob and polygamy came up as abominable in the chapter. You emphasized that particular verse to imply we don't follow our own scripture and completely ignored verse 30 in chapter 2, which is just a little further than the verse you emphasized, which entirely refuted your implication. That is the type of "curiosity" we see that simply reeks of a typical evangelical anti Mormon critique. Focus on a verse, remove context, ignore the rest of scripture that contradicts your views and then jab at LDS.
There are MANY more examples like these and that is why we want people to be aware that your intended purpose is not in line with your actual actions. Just be honest, don't say you're fighting criticism with curiosity, simply state you're evangelizing nicely and most of us will no longer be able to point out your channel is disingenuous.
For the record, we need to have interfaith conversations like these in this video. This is great, true honest interaction is needed immensely. What we don't need are bait and switch tactics to nicely proselytize to LDS.
I was born in the church of Jesus Christ.. but each one of us must gain our own testimony of the truth of its teaching by the power of the Holy Ghost. PJ is a great guy, you two brothers are awesome together and have asked better questions than any other. Interviews I have watched. Well done by all three of you. It has confirmed my testimony even more. Carol
I really appriecate Pastor Jeff and his knowlegde and testimony. As I have been watching his channel, my own testimony of Jesus Christ and his Restored Church has grown so much. He has helped push me to look at things differently and hunger for knowlegde and understanding. He has pushed me to read and study the Book of Mormon more deeply. This was a wonderful interfaith discussion, and I am excited for more. Thank you, all of you, for fighting critism with curiosity. Keep up the great work, Stick of Joseph (And Pastor Jeff)!
Well said brother I love the gospel proud to be LDS i feel sad honestly that many good people ( including pastor Jeff) doesn’t see how blessed we are that the lord have restored his gospel on earth
You will not be proud to be caught in the 100% fake manmade abomination of mormonism when Jessus returns. All you totally blind, lost, and deceived mormons are going to be cast into the lake of fire. You are not blessed. you are all accursed! Repent!
What was restored? Jesus is all we need. The church has been protected. What needs to be restored?
@@melissamaertz Nothing was restored. Only a giant fraud was invented and only the most Biblically illiterate and Biblically ignorant will be deceived by the unrestored, 100% astray, apostate cult of mormonism.
Well His Church was clearly taken from the Earth, as The Lord declared himself. When did it return? Or is it a distant memory that we now just read about? Find the answers to this and you will have your answer about restoration...@@melissamaertz
@@melissamaertzJoseph Smith inaugurated the “restitution of all things” (Acts 3:21). Through the Church of Jesus Christ God has restored His priesthood power given to all through making covenants with Him as well as priesthood authority to baptize and join families together eternally into God’s covenant family through the sealing ordinance. He restored his apostleship and the holiness and purpose of God’s temples and his communication with prophets to lead his church. Prophesied events are being fulfilled through the Restored Church of Jesus Christ and it’s exciting to be a part of it!
Great discussion! Pastor Jeff mentioned that most of the LDS folks he’s spoken with were born in the covenant/lifelong members and so they see things a certain way. I would love to see Pastor Jeff do more videos with converts - those who converted to the LDS church from other faiths. What were THEIR experiences? What attracted THEM to the LDS church to the extent they felt compelled to join? What’s it like to see things through THEIR eyes?
Great idea! I would love to do that as a convert of six years. And I would really like to see him get together with David Alexander.
Every Church of every denomination has former LDS members who went through the temple and later left the Mormons. All the temple secrets have been told
The difference I see between LDS and other Christians is that the good done by an LDS member will somehow earn them their own planet and never-ending sex with countless wives. True Christians live for the Glory of Christ.
This is really really good content. Some of the best from both of you. Very educational.
Pastor Jeff, I think these guys pushed you pretty hard. I am very impressed in how you maintained your composure and kindness and tenderness towards Latter Day Saints. It helped me understand where you stand a lot more. Thank you.
My feelings *exactly*. Every time they pushed the issue of baptism, I kind of got a bit irritated and hoped Jeff wouldn't be offended, but Jeff's responses and kindness impressed me - as well as the clarity he provided with each answer. Ending on 'it's not about religion, it's about relationship' was perfect. Bravo!
Peter lays out the plan. Of salvation. How can he not see it . Repent everyone of you and be baptized .
I love Pastor Jeff! I love that he is extending a hand of friendship across the aisle. Thanks for allowing him space to explain his point of view. I feel bad that he is misunderstood by so many. I think his purpose for his channel is important.
Guys, I enjoyed this episode and you asked good questions. However, you missed the points of the controversy. David Alexander said specifically that Jeff is NOT a wolf in sheep's clothing. David correctly stated that Jeff's intentions are clearly stated ("sheep in sheep's clothing"). I would say that members are allowing Jeff's good nature and friendly approach to cloud his stated intent. Members of the Church are so used to getting blatently told they are going to hell that we celebrate when somebody infers it nicely. Even in your video he avoided saying it directly, while gently repeating his true feelings that we believe in a different Jesus, and that he is not willing to consider that the Book of Mormon is anything more than fiction. As an Evangelical for half of my life, I know where he is coming from. He is a pastor and is asking his audience (95% LDS) to fund his channel by gifts and patreon. He was (is?) on the board of Loving Utah, a group focused on plating "real" Christians in Utah where "Christians are the minority". He is still presenting at their November conference. He is using a different technique than Jeff Durbin, but voicing and believes much of the same. I like Jeff and I think we would be good friends. He and his wife seem like nice people. However, members need to watch him (if they choose) understanding that while we believe he can go to Heaven, he does not believe the same about us. I wouldn't pay to support Ed Decker, or Durbin or any of the others. I'd be Jeff's friend and neighbor, but I'm not going to financially support his efforts.
I absolutely agree. As I was listening I could sense the spirit as the paul brothers spoke and testified at certain parts, but pastor jeff has so many beliefs that shield him from being able to have that change his heart. Let's pray for this man so the walls over his heart drop.
This open dialogue and the way each point was presented is absolutely awesome. You were well spoken.
I love Pastor Jeff and I follow his channel. Listening to him has helped me to see what others like him believe but also it has helped to solidify what I believe. When Christ returns we will be working together with other righteous people of all faiths and so we need to learn to love and respect each other now.
Jeff is not respectable. He is causing members to fall away to following Him. Pastor is a snake, Sneaky, a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I don't watch PJ anymore.
I don't too!
Agreed we should love and respect each other. I’m struggling with the idea of listening to why I’m wrong and getting seeds of doubt planted, and bank rolling these messages for others to see especially our vulnerable youth who need to “doubt their doubts” and “turn to sources of truth” right now.
@@timwrightfamily740 I can only speak for myself here but when I listen to PJ explain the evangelical side of things I have never heard anything that made me doubt my own testimony. If anything it made it stronger. You can't shield people from other points of view. I went through my own crucible of doubt many years ago now so I don't find Pastor Jeff a threat in any way.
I'm 62. I've been called non Christian by all sorts of Christians starting in high school. Joseph Smith is still a true prophet, the Book of Mormon is still true. The emptiness of non authorized Christian sects still rings hollow. The organizations put forward the form of Godliness but still deny the power, the full Spirit of truth and ordained authority, the restoration of the priesthood.
Sadly that's very common these days. When people tell me we don't believe in the same Jesus, I always agree. Think about it.... Our Jesus can't be told what to do, who he loves most, what his limits are, we have no authority over our Jesus😊👍. It seems other Christians control their Jesus thus being different from ours lol
@@StompMom5He is NOT a tame lion!
My mom was asked by several of her peers if she really had horns on her head. It was always very hurtful to my mother. But she never wavered in her faith. She knew that the book of Mormon was true, and that Joseph Smith was a prophet called by Jesus Christ.
It is the organizations that we must fault, not the individuals. See Ephesians 6:12. Your persecution is part of your crown of glory, Greg.
Please, thank Jeff for sharing his testimony with us. It was awesome!!
Thank you for sharing your testimony of the Savior with us Paster Jeff.
You guys did a fantastic job by asking hard, but sincere questions. I really appreciated your follow up questions to how he squares “except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of god” coupled with the great commission to take the gospel to all the world, “baptizing them…”
With respect to the Paster, he had to dance around that question. Sad for him because this was a “salvific question” and a point of doctrine and he is using far reaching interpretations to base his response on.
Nice work fellas!
I agree with this. It’s not that we are saving ourselves, but we are following the commandments of our Father in Heaven.
It truly is so sad how Neff changes what our savior asked us to do and he says he loves Jesus ?? How so when you refuse to do as he asks of you ? Crazy .
Thank you for this interview, it was good to hear from pastor Jeff that he is not searching for truth with an open heart and humble spirit, he has it all already. And because of that I think it would be more productive to stop talking about doctrinal differences with him and start interfaith dialogue the same way we do with other churches trying to do something good together showing the world that Christians are united (even though pastor Jeff doesn't think that we are Christians 😂)
Joseph Smith said that he wasn't a Christian.
Joseph Smith said . . .
(Regarding Joseph Smith’s alleged first vision where celestial personages appeared to him)
. . . “My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right - and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 1, p. 5-6).
“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world,”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 270).
(In questions directed to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism . . . ).
First-“Do you believe the Bible?”
If we do, we are the only people under heaven that do, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do.”
Third-“Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?”
Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness.” (Teachings, page 119).
Brigham Young said. . .
“But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong,” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, 1855, p. 171).
John Taylor said . . .
“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense . . . Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, 1858, p. 167).
The Book of Mormon says. . .
“And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth” (1 Nephi 14:10).
“And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . .” (1 Nephi. 14:17).
It’s beautiful when we can relate to others of different religions, and love them right where they’re at without any opposition. Love your neighbor as yourself, and looking at what we can all do together in serving our struggling communities in consecrated ways coming from. pure love without judgment. ❤
Jeff put out a video 📹 about the reason for his channel, and it's because he wants everyone to convert to his church from ours! It's sad he can't see how truly amazing our church is! As a latter day Saint for most of my life, I can tell you, I have never heard one word preached against another church, in my church! But we know other churches have lessons of hate towards our church, and we know which one's they are ! It's something we have had to deal with, why we help with other churches keep their food banks and battered women's shelters open!
It's not ok the preach hate,that's not what our Savior would do. Our priesthood leaders don't ever get paid to teach the gospel, only apostles do because it would be hard on them to afford all of the traveling they do around the world 🌎 otherwise. But our Bishops, and priests and high priests don't receive any money! David Alexander on UA-cam is the one that will tell it like it is! He's different than Jeff. As a Temple worker I know the sacred ordinances and promises God makes to us if we covenant with him, are more beautiful than you could imagine ❤️ but that's how much God loves his children!
Excellent conversation guys. Loved Jeff's testimony at the end.
agreed
I totally get being friends with non-LDS. That's the Christlike thing to do.
The problem is when you start giving an ear to them preaching our doctrine with their own slant or spin on it. This is where you begin to move into an off-ramp of our own beliefs. A great example is the works vs grace debate. I have noticed that many LDS have been softening their stance on works as a requirement for salvation in order to "build a bridge" with people like Jeff. Our core doctrine has always been and will always be, "saved by grace after all we can do". Works are a requirement, not an option. We take James 2 very seriously.
So this idea of letting Evangelicals preach to us our own beliefs is simply unnecessary. If they don't have the gift of the Holy Ghost (they cannot), there is no way for their teachings can truly uplift us or change us for the better. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it is the truth.
@@fightingfortruth9806 No one has been "off-ramped" because of Jeff. It is important to talk about our differences and not curl up and paint ourselves into a corner. Jeff is the right guy to have this dialogue with . Of cours that is just my opinion.
@@fightingfortruth9806on the contrary, PJ has strengthened my testimony of the church. He is on ramping me. I also get the benefit of gaining insights into his beliefs and in many instances realized our views are more similar than not.
@@CwicShoware you going to do more response videos to his BoM readings? I’ve enjoyed those.
Jeff's a sheep in sheep's clothing. A true disciple. His efforts at bridge building are right in harmony with our default stance of wanting to reach out and build bridges within our communities, and others of another faith or belief. Jeff's a champ! Has definitely been an example of Christ to me.
I ❤ Pastor Jeff! As a convert I appreciate his thoughtful and inquisitive interest in our Faith! He shows courage in seeking answers.
We believe in allowing our fellow man to gain their own answers.
As an Evangelical believer, I wanted to highlight that Pastor Jeff’s views are universally consistent with my own - even though I don’t know him, don’t go to the same church, nor the same denomination - I’m from a whole other country! - but because we use the same Book, and take it as whole, sufficient, and trustworthy. Our doctrinal convictions are thus the same. Isn’t that amazing? God is so good and clear and wants so much to be known.
Also just to commend this conversation- it was really really well done, gentlemen!! 🎉
I love his perspective and to see all the newness of the LDS faith as he tries to understand and interpret what he is seeing. It always helps me look into my own testimony & strengthen it while at the same time have a warm, loving feeling for Pastor Jeff. He's a good man who will do good things in his life.
Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none
Evidence showing the Bible is true and the Book of Mormon is not true:
No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple as grand as Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, none of the 38 cities mentioned (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings, no middle eastern seeds, "which we had brought from the land of Jerusalem. And it came to pass that they did grow exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24, and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed.
There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7)
“Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America.
The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne. 13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 They were brought to America centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool.
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a curious claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away. (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25).
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors.
Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. If the corruption thus appeared before first century, it would have been corrected by Jesus. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not.
They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. This scroll could not have been touched by the Catholics. Also this scroll is a Jewish production, and the Book of Mormon claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity".
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham was forced to the conclusion that the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the Book of Mormon. Mormon apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of Brigham Young University, had to admit that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the Book of Mormon but uphold the validity of the bible.
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE?
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. Like Joseph Smith this was also the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years and preserved most of the book of John. (this papyri was written around 150 AD, not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious blasphemous changes. Also, there are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. The best of these go back to somewhere about AD 350 and none support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Considerable fragments remain of papyrus copies of books of the New Testament dated from 100 to 200 years earlier still and show that the new testament we have is reliable. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17
In the LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. He explains: It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons…. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 And, Matthew 24:24 warns us that Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. Mathew 7:15
It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3:3-5 Joseph Smith sold the same lie.
Also, the leaders of the LDS Church have taught that their Jesus was married, had children, and was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, says in The Seer, page 172, says, “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, … The son followed the example of his Father"
I love how respectful all of you are, the conversation can actually happen!
Man I love this. On the one hand you could say that you are grilling pastor Jeff, but I loved all the clarifications of particular beliefs. Really I learned so much from this conversation about evangelical perspective. Might be, my favorite of pastor Jeff's interviews.
Love the open discussion, and love you guys and Pastor Jeff!
Something I want to say:
I think the underlying difference in belief when it comes to baptism lies in what Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals believe about the nature of salvation itself. Something to ask is why Latter-day Saints (myself included) believe baptism--not just the physical aspect, but the combined physical, spiritual, and covenantal--is conditional for God to be just, as you talked about at 39:10. (As well as other saving ordinances.) For me, learning about the specific, eternal, and ancient nature of each ordinance makes them appear less arbitrary.
I think the core question about John 3:5 is less, "What did Jesus actually command?" and more "Why would He command it?" Ordinances themselves don't save us, Jesus does. But why do we believe that action--physical and particular as it exists--works in tandem with our spiritual faith for our salvation?
I personally think we may not ever fully understand in this life why the specifics of ordinances are eternal and Godly. For me, I think the specifics (water, temples, bodies, etc.) are eternally designed to allow us to grow spiritually in ways not possible without them. I'd even say it is through the particular ordinances that we can more fully accept God's grace that He has given to us.
I'm always glad to see the growth this channel continues to have :)
Thanks for calling all the people who have legitimate, well thought out and heartfelt concerns "ridiculous." We sure feel valued now. Your walking it back didn't walk it back much.
I could have edited it out, but I decided to keep it for transparency and to show that it’s possible to say something when you’re fired up but to realize it was the wrong thing to say. Thought there would be a little more grace.
@@thestickofjoseph Well, my comment didn't show much grace either, so I guess we both learned the same lesson. I truly apologize. I've been sensitive to that criticism ever since this controversy blew up because it was my video "The Case Against Hello Saints" that ignited the whole thing last week, and I feel increasingly annoyed that of all the LDS podcasters, only one has taken the time to reach out and understand why I made the video and to understand the arguments I make in it. The rest just dismiss and misunderstand them to one degree or another. I also despise when people say Jeff's a "snake in the grass" or a "wolf in sheep's clothing" because he's simply not . My video went out of its way to recognize Jeff as a wonderful person, perhaps misguided, but certainly sincere.
@@StandFirmSaintsI loved your video!!!
@@StandFirmSaints - I loved your video too.
Very kind. Thank you@@mjwells100
I don’t understand why Jesus got baptized if baptism is not necessary to be saved. Did I miss somethings?
Having lived in many different places other than Utah and come into contact with many Evangelicals, I have come to learn for myself that the creedal Evangelical view of Jesus is indeed different. They have confined Jesus into a box of what he can and cannot do. In their eyes, Sola Scriptura trumps God's revelation. To them, God can't, won't, wouldn't, and shouldn't speak to them today. To evangelicals, the last time God spoke to them in revealed word form was about 1900 years ago. To us restored gospel Christians, it's often
💯
As an evangelical I’m curious what you mean when you say our beliefs put Jesus in a box? He is the one and only all powerful, eternally divine Creator of the universe, who accomplished 100% of our redemption, and now sits enthroned as reigning Lord and King of the cosmos sitting at God’s right hand. That’s an awfully big “box.” And he’s so big that he’s the ultimate and final revelation of who God is. God doesn’t need to speak through mere men anymore because he has spoken through his Son (Heb. 1:1). Every time man tries to add to what was revealed in Jesus they just end up making Jesus smaller and smaller (such as a mere created being who is one of many other gods and the brother of Satan).
@@jamesp7103 Of course we believe Jesus has saved us. And not just because we say "I am saved" and nothing else is required of us ;-) We believe that God spoke through Jesus, but also through his chosen servants, the prophets (Amos 3:7). Since God stated he will not do ANYTHING unless revealed through his prophets, it's clear that there is a need for prophets. The original apostles knew this and acknowledged prophets in their own time even after Jesus resurrected and left the church to his disciples (see Agabus in Acts). But why not in our time? Evangelicals are the ones who say "God won't call prophets in our time. We don't need them". Which is why you put God in a small box.
I'm actually not sure what Evangelicals believe about Satan because I haven't heard anything uniform. That's why there are division and separations in the Evangelical body because of disputations and confusing doctrines. Some Evangelicals say Satan is just a symbol of evil and not a real being. Others have stated that God created Satan. Others say that he is a fallen angel. I'm not sure what you believe and it sounds like neither do you all.
@@GwPoKo
If you’ve ever actually heard an evangelical say that all we need to do is say “I am saved” and nothing after that matters then he didn’t know his Bible. That’s clearly is not what the Bible teaches, and I’ve never spoken to an informed evangelical who believes that. I’m not sure why Mormons always say that’s what we believe. It is not, and Pastor Jeff has reiterated that time and again. The Bible teaches that good works are not the basis for salvation, but they always flow from salvation (see Eph. 2:8-10). Christians work from salvation; works based religions work for salvation.
Yep, some evangelicals might have different ideas of Satan. But we sure do believe the same thing about Jesus which is not true with the LDS. If I ask 10 different Mormons whether Jesus is God, I get 10 different answers. I’d say that question is a little more important. It’s actually okay to have different opinions on some things, but not who Jesus is. All evangelicals definitely agree that Satan is not Jesus’s brother because if he is then Jesus is just a mere creature like you and me, not the eternal God. So once again, this is an example of your “prophets” adding to God’s final revelation made through Christ (Heb. 1:1) and thereby making Jesus smaller than he really is. When your box is controlled by men who call themselves prophets (who change their mind on doctrines over the years) you end up with exalted men and a small God. “Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah …” Better to praise God who created the man.
Thank you. You have no idea how hard it is to convince a member of the LDS church that we do not worship the same God or Jesus. The LDS god was once a man like you are and the LDS hope is to one day become exactly like He is.
The LDS Jesus has a heavenly mother, and a heavenly brother (satan). He is a created being.
The trinitarian God (which includes Jesus) is eternal and unchanging. The trinitarian Father and Jesus always existed, and existed before time and always will exist. This isnt the same as believing different things about these entities. They are incompatible beliefs. And that's ok.
The LDS gospel is to be saved by grace through faith after all they can do. The trinitarian gospel is to place your complete trust in the work of Jesus and not your own. These too are incompatible beliefs and thats ok.
We don't need to argue over who is right or wrong, but lets at least not deceive ourselves into thinking we are somehow worshiping the same god and trusting in the same gospel.
Thank you for doing this you guys. I have been following Hello Saints for several months, and recently have been observing the controversy that came with his move to Utah. Honestly I think it's two fold. One that many are unfamiliar with the honest questions that come up in interfaith dialogue. And that questions in the past have been used as the vehicle to discredit or dismiss what Latter Day Saints believe. So there's maybe some dealing with some PTSD from that. And two, there have been well intended pastors over the years who have moved to utah with the intention of "un-duping" the mormons. In both cases, I think it's a type of religious PTSD that has come with the poor way in which the dialogue between Latter Day Saints and Protestants has gone down over the years. But I find Pastor Jeff to be different. I find him to be able to actually hear and respect the views given, rather than dismissing them. There are several things that he does different and that set him apart from this pattern in our interface thus far. And I believe he is making legitimate space for multiple opinions and perspectives. I believe the REAL interfaith dialogue is starting to take place, and THAT I am ALL FOR! For several reasons, one being that I served my mission in the south, and have been interested in interfaith dialogue for a long time. And I think Hello Saints is part of the REAL form of interfaith dialogue. We're just having to sort through the PTSD that's come from the fake conversations of the past that were not real conversations. Time to dig deep and figure out what we believe and why, because that is the pre-cursor to interfaith dialogue. Well done to you guys, and high five to Pastor Jeff! We're gonna get there dude! We're gonna get to where we can do REAL interfaith dialogue. You are the bomb.
It is interesting to me that Jesus Christ himself said to be baptized... then to have people do mental gymnastics to turn that around and say... No, it really is not required... because it is a work and therefore does not count because some may boast... Who in the Universe wants people to not listen to Jesus Christ, who in the Universe wants people to disregard the very words of Jesus... uhm... I wonder who ? Faith without works is dead... You're showing Heavenly Father your faith in Jesus by following his example. By not getting baptized you are showing your lack of faith in what Jesus Christ taught. We are saved through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ... baptism is our acceptance in Christ. We get accused of following Satan for following the very words of Christ. Every Evangelical that I have interacted with has made it clear they believe we are doomed ... yet we follow the very words of Christ and have covenants to help us stay on His path. I can use every help I can get to not fall away by all the temptations of this world.
Well-said
wow. This was an incredible conversation. Kudos to Pastor Jeff for mixing it up with you two.
Awesome awesome awesome. Born, raised and now raising my family in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Loved your respect for one another, your ability to discuss similar AND differing beliefs. This video was so inspiring for my faith and for my love of all followers of Jesus, no matter their background. Thank you Paul brothers for doing this!! 🙏🏼
Not buying it guys. You're strawmanning the "wolf in sheeps clothing" accusation. It doesn't mean someone who believes different, it means someone who appeals to the gentler and more vulnerable of us, in order to plant an issue. Pastor Jeff isn't making content for his evangelical friends, he is making gentle seeming videos aimed at the whole populous of the church, it's called "Hello Saints". To think that the man reading The Book of Mormon in order to "really know the truth" and coming away without a witness to its truthfulness is being sincere, is to say that the spirit didn't reach his heart. If you want to see an actually sincere person do what Jeff is doing, watch 52 Churches in 52 Weeks.
There are fewer Christians in general from generation to generation. We must interact and build a stronger community of believers in Jesus Christ but still respectfully show our differences.
Most Christians don't believe that LDS aren't even "Christian" though so it can make it harder to build community between Mormons and Christians
Pastor Jeff, this is by far the most insightful and most real video I've ever seen you do. Thank you so much for taking the time with these two here to explain more what you believe, why you believe, how we differ, and how we are similar. Love this.
What irks me about pastor Jeff is his constant use of the phrase "Mainstream Christianity." It sounds like he is intentionally distancing us from other christians, as if to say "not really christians." How does he define mainstream. Our size in numbers of members and locations is comparable to the Catholic Church,; sounds mainstream to me. The other christians are not in full agreement with each other, that's why there are so many protestant denominations. Sometimes they are in competition or at odds with each other. That doesn't sound like mainstream to me. If they are not unified how can he use a word like mainstream to define them? Why lump them all together and "other" us that way?
Perfectly highlighted… most of this conversation is going in circles and getting nowhere.. feels patronising ..
Who is God the Father, God Son and God the Holy Ghost Pastor Jeff.
I think it is really unwise of you to encourage members to watch his channel when he comes right out and says he’s trying to get members to believe like he does. I am a convert to the gospel into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and have been a
member for over 40 years; and have seen so many new members pulled out of the church by evangelical’s because they just had a spark of testimony and when someone challenged their beliefs their testimony was blown out. So I can watch his channel and it has no influence on me, but you seem to be sending members in general who may have a strong testimony but not considering those who may only have a spark of testimony which might be like sending them into a wind storm or a rain storm to watch. I was recently involved with a new member and he was really excited after joining the church and, he started watching evangelical UA-cam videos and is now totally against the church. One thing that is really sad is he and I read the parable of the sower together and he asked me what kind of seed I thought he was; I said that was up to him, but I wouldn’t push him into the thorn patch, which seems like what you might be doing when you encouraging people to watch that type of video. I mean Jeff comes right out and says he wants people to believe what he does. So if you’re going to encourage members to watch something please don’t forget the members with weak testimonies who might be listening and be chocked out of the church.If your a member with a strong testimony you’re probably safe but, what’s the point of wasting your time watching something that is not going strengthen your testimony. I Think your channel is great but not this one.😢
I am a lifetime Latter-day Saint who struggled with my testimony for about 15 years and for the past 5 years have felt that my testimony is strong. After discovering Hello Saints, I can say that Jeff and his channel have strengthened by testimony even more. For the first time in my life I find myself wanting to know more and dig deeper on the topics that Jeff is curious about, such as the Apostasy and the Priesthood. I want to be as curious as Jeff is. When he chats with people like the guys in this video or Greg Matson or Kirt Francom, I often wonder how I would have responded if a non-member asked those same deep questions of me. Jeff and Hello Saints has positively impacted my life and I am thankful that God blessed me to discover it. I also know a lot more about Evangelical perspective than I ever did before. Win-win for me.
Ridiculous? Thats very unfortunate to treat those listeners who have concerns, in such a dismissive way. I’m not a fan of your guest, but I am sure he uses a more effective approach to those he does not agree with. Best wishes with your channel.
@krisbale2107 That’s why we did that introduction… we recognize that that wasn’t the right language.
Invite Bruce Porter from Gilbert Az to go on your holy land trip. He was a church historian for years and now is a seminary teacher. He is an expert on ancient Egypt and Israel.
Thank you for the great conversation, guys. Looking forward to more!
As you walk along these people please remember there are bible verses directed to false prophets like JS:
Galatians 1:8
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 8 Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.
Likewise, my friend!
@@lukegraven7839joseph Smith wasn’t a false prophet.
@@thestickofjoseph that’s a great succinct response. Being that I’m on your channel I tip my cap even though we don’t see eye to eye on some issues.
@@thestickofjoseph great response. I was insinuating your religion was false and you turned it around...well played. And being that I'm on your channel I better agree with a few things.
Interesting discussion. Glad it popped up in my recommended feed. I wondered about Pastor Jeff's motivation. This helps me to trust he's genuinely curious and not being deceptive. Time will tell.
It’s less about deception and more about he is set in his convictions just as we are.
Some of the worst things in history have been done with good intent. Those that stoned ancient apostates and prophets thought they were doing God service. Paul thought he was doing good persecuting Christs servants thinking they were leading them astray, but Paul later learned the truth and repented from what he was previously doing. There are those who have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. You don’t need to have bad motivations to do harm.
@@andrewdurfee3896 true. But God can use all of it to edify and teach
I like watching Pastor Jeff because it makes it easier for me to see the false apostate teachings of "mainstream" Christianity and how much more light and knowledge comes from the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
Could you tell me in 1 sentence what the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is? I know what the Bible says is the Gospel (Romans 10), but have never had a mormon tell me what their gospel is other than tell me I need to go through a temple ceremony.
@@kendarcie6613 The gospel of Jesus Christ is our Heavenly Father’s plan for the happiness and salvation of His children.
@@netherquartz8946 Why can't mormons answer this simple question? Jesus answered it in John 3:16. Paul answered it in Romans 10:8-10. I will ask 1 more time, IN 1 SENTENCE WHAT IS THE MORMON GOSPEL?
@@kendarcie6613 I did.
Here it is in different words.
Through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel
@@netherquartz8946 Do you see the difference between what Jesus said the Gospel is and what your alleged prophets say the gospel is? Have you ever read Galatians 1??
I loved how you too conducted this conversation. It was very smart, sincere, and inviting to ponder.
Thanks so much for doing this, guys.. I think both this video and the one that Steven Pynakker recently did on his Mormon Book Reviews channel are really timely and helpful. I love what Jeff McCullough is doing even more now, and am really looking forward to seeing his future videos that he mentioned, which will consist of conversations with Latter-day Saints such as Greg Matsen, Luke Hanson, Jacob Hansen, and you 2, etc.
The problem is the Pastor did not read the Book of Mormon, he evaluated it under the context of his seminary education. It is unconvincing to him because of his education. He can't open his mind and heart to read it with the Holy Ghost. He read it with his education.
LDS always has deeper views i see mainstream christianity missing so many plain truths
Mormonism is just the deepest of deception. There are no peoples that are more completely blind, lost, and deceived than the mormons.
To examine the Book of Mormon and find it "textually inconsistent" with the Bible just blows my mind and heart. I think you have to be reading it with pretty strong bias and skepticism to come to that conclusion. It testifies of Christ! The promise in Moroni mentions "real intent" - I don't think PJ reads the Book of Mormon in search for truth, but rather with curiosity and a ready way to disprove it. The "accusatory fog" and ingrained teachings and mentality of evangelicals among whom are good people like PJ's parents and people like Ray Comfort (who do so much good in pointing others to Christ, but not to his authorized servants) is so strong -
to not consider that God leads His people with apostles, prophets, and a central organized church with authority;
to not consider that baptism may be necessary for the dead;
to not consider that Jesus spoke to sheep not of this fold in another land,
to not consider that there are a need for temples and temple ordinances,
to not consider that the Doctrine and Covenants is modern day scripture as the New Testament was to the Old Testament,
to not consider that there can be prophetic revelation in our day,
to not consider that callings are extended with authority in the church and not self appointed,
to not consider that "neither is the man without the woman or the woman without the man in the Lord" may also refer to God himself
to not consider that the Lord has a wonderful place and degree of glory prepared for every one of his children
to not consider that when we don't receive whom the Lord sends (prophets called of him, not self called) is not receiving him
As Latter Day Saints, we do not reject the Bible - we read it and and learn from it and try to follow what it teaches, but most evangelicals reject the Book of Mormon before they will even honestly and sincerely examine it. You have to "not consider" and dismiss a lot of good things.
Consider the fruits.
Let's consider one: PJ is able to consider that God will not damn and send to hell someone who has never heard of Christ or been baptized shows some hope - I don't think we got the whole picture from him on who goes to hell. To think of God as having a high level of lack of mercy as most evangelicals believe is just beyond reason and comprehension, and a very harmful way of thinking.
Often evangelical arguments focus on the intellectual arguments, and not on the more meaty and important matters - like what a loving God plans to do with all of His children - what His plan is for all of his loved children.
To think that God has a place and degree of glory for all of His children makes a lot more sense. Even though He is a God of both perfect justice and mercy, He has a better plan than most evangelicals think - and it is one of the glorious mysteries of God.
We as Latter-Day Saints believe that God has a great place prepared for all good people, including evangelicals, but the evangelical faith has actively taught that active Latter-Day Saints will go to hell, and this for decades.
David Alexander's conversion is not just a refreshing story because it supports what I believe, but the biblical scriptures he knows so well after trying to study and follow them for 47 years are all coming to light in so many ways he never understood before with glory and joy. He has seen and tasted of the fruit of the restored gospel and finally stopped standing afar off accusing something he has never tried.
"If it be wisdom in God" to examine a text, we read it, then with "sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ", Moroni 10:4 promise applies.
David Alexander's recent youtube interview with True Millennial explains well the kind of foolish intellectual considerations we might make with a peach tree when we already know that the fruit is at such a high level of good, better than any peach seen or tasted.
If a concept or way is presented that in God's wisdom would be reasonable to consider, we should seek after these things. And called and ordained prophets, seers, and revelators are God's offer for a safe source of truth, the same today as in days of the Israelites.
I think True Millennial said it well when he said that converts are the Lord's secret weapon, as they can testify of the contrast between where they have been and where they are now.
It seems wisdom if you have not truly tried something to not have a strong opinion of it until if in God's wisdom you are called to truly try the experiment with that "sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ", and the truth of it will be manifested in glorious ways.
I love how Jeff has literally thrown himself into the LDS/Mormon gauntlet! HUGE respect to Jeff for his patience in this and so many conversations I’ve watched where the disparity in knowledge/intellect is clear. Why do the majority of us that come from the LDS faith struggle to understand the scriptures like other Christians? I believe it’s because we’re taught to not fully trust the Bible and lean more on modern day revelation, it keeps us ignorant to understanding Christianity as a whole. We’re also so confident (due to emotional manipulation IMO) and have been convinced that we KNOW we’re in the one true path/church which actually holds us back from learning/progressing and we end up becoming ignorance on fire.
Did you not go to seminary/ institute/ read come follow me and the bible? I knew way more about the bible than any pastor I encountered on my mission, they couldnt even believe I was just 19
Beautiful retort, my brother! Let's all be open-minded and regard everyone's perspectives of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Who's to say it's not from the heart?@@fred-62
My mind is kinda blown that he would put Christ’s and Paul’s words on the same level.
Right?
I consider Paul to be more of a Seventy than an apostle as he was never a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
@@user-yr9lt7dz8k we don’t know that, actually
LOL 😆 you put Joseph Smith's words on that same level as you sing Praise to the man.
The Saviour word must be above all. He is the only perfect man,to ever live. He only has imperfect people to work with that are doing the best they can.
Loved the deep dive on actual doctrine. Discussing the hard questions, great interview.
Awesome video. 23:15 was my aha moment. I was always just a bit critical of his intent and that moment made me realize I need to create space that he is honest in his intent.
“This doesn’t add up to me” the original 12 Apostles said the same thing witnessing Gethsemene and His arrest. So I am sorry he leans to his own understanding, but must recognize that it didn’t add up for the best of us until a trial of our faith.
20:30 Wait, wait, wait...Interesting take on urgency and the fundamental differences. Wake up man! You say that Evangelicals are more urgent? You're funny. Maybe more urgent against LDS people at general conference or yelling at students on University campuses. From my perspective that is not the case! Evangelicals have the thought of urgency but do nothing about it. Evangelicals from my perspective only think of themselves and that the fact that they are 'saved'. There is nothing more for them to do. They found Jesus, sorry for the poor sucker next door who hasn't. I would say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the most urgent faith on the planet and the most merciful faith on the planet. Which is a testimony to me about Christ's church. Yes, we believe that people should accept the gospel of Christ in this life and we're doing everything in our power to make it accessible to them to do so. We are 'urgently' doing missionary work throughout the world for all God's children in almost every country and in almost every language. If they do not accept Christ on Earth we will provide for them the chance after death when they are stuck in spirit prison from his grace and mercy. We are making temples more available to all of Gods children everywhere for people to gain all the saving ordinances necessary for exaltation. I have never been approached by an evangelical. I dated evangelicals growing up in Missouri and their families hated LDS and had camps teaching to do so. I live outside of Utah and have evangelical friends and they do not talk to me about their faith or Christ without me asking them and prodding them. There are no missionaries going door to door from evangelicals. There are no evangelical prophets teaching a unified doctrine of the truth for all of God's children. There is not a concerted evangelical effort to teach the truth to every tongue and creature. Again, who is being more urgent and unified in the name of Christ throughout the world?
Dear Pastor Jeff, I love your presentations and the fact that you are trying to learn about us without judging and in the process are helping mainstream Christians accept Latter Day Saints as Christians, too. That's sooo good!
But at one point near the end of this of this interview, you said something that troubled me. You talked about how you saw most of the LDS people as having been born into the Church and, because of that, you feel that they just look at the Bible and the Book of Mormon as though they were just one big conglomerate. Whereas YOU can see all the little nuances of the Bible, all the fine details, etc. I take that to mean that you think that we just blindly accept whatever is fed to us. I can't really say, because I was not born into the Church. I'm a convert of 50 years. But a great percentage of us are converts. And I know that I for one do not blindly accept anything from anybody! We LDS do believe our Prophet receives Revelation for the whole Church, but we also rely on personal revelation as well.
Like I said, I wasn't always LDS. I was "born of goodly parents" (as Nephi would have phrased it), who took me to church every Sunday. We were Presbyterian, and I received a great background in the scriptures. I will always be grateful for that because it helped me recognize the truth when I found it!
But when I became a teenager, I began having questions like: where did I live before I came to this earth, and where would I go when I died? So I asked my teachers and my minister, but neither could tell me. I couldn't imagine spending ETERNITY flying through heaven strumming a harp; there HAD to be something more!
Then, when I was in college, I had a dream that showed me that I would live to experience the Last Days before Christ's Second Coming. It was then that I really began searching in earnest!
To make a long story short, Heavenly Father guided me EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to the only TRUE Church on the face of the earth today, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in other words, The Restored Church of Jesus Christ (its real name). Heavenly Father led me because I was HUMBLY searching and praying to find a church that was set up exactly as Jesus had founded his church when he walked the earth a little over 2,000 years ago. I needed to know how I fit into Heavenly Father's great Plan. And because I HUMBLED myself before Him, His Spirit was able to speak to my mind and my heart, and I was blessed to find HIS CHURCH.
Pastor Jeff, I know you're not searching, but did you ever stop to consider that Heavenly Father might have a bigger work for you to do? ( I purposely avoided saying "a greater work" because you are a very humble man in that you don't want greatness and glory. Neither does our Prophet, President Nelson, or his Apostles. They are some of the most humble men on this earth! But they have been called by God, our Father, do do His great work and they accepted. What about you, Pastor Jeff? It's not enough to pray just about the Book of Mormon, although that's a good start. But you need to pray about where Father needs you during the "winding up scenes" of this earth, to borrow a quote from our Prophet. Are you willing to do His work...wherever it may take you???
I also want to thank you two young men on "The Stick of Joseph." You're doing a wonderful job! Bless you both!!! And blessings to you, too, Pastor Jeff!
Obviously his intention is nothing more than respect and understanding between religions, but he does not want to know if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. Thanks to him for Hello Saints. Greetings from Guatemala!
Thanks for the clarifications. Faith cometh by hearing the word of God. So many lose focus but you stay very much on point to find truth in the details.
What a brilliant work you guys are doing, Hayden and Jackson! Pastor Jeff, thank you so much for expressing your love and testimony about our Savior Jesus Christ. What a beautiful and respectful conversation. Keep doing this great work you all!
Did you know that Jeff believes in one God, Jesus Christ. He believes that God can change from Jesus Christ into the Father and into the Holy Ghost. Do you realise that his god will punish all those who do not ask Jesus Christ to come into their heart and that punishment will last for eternity and people will burn in a pit without relief. Isn't that a lovely god he worships. It sounds more like satan to me.
Jeff has the same right to believe what he believes just as we as saints do. Don't persucute him for something we all fought to have. Freedom of religion ❤ pray for him, don't persecute him.
@@stokesfab5 When did you fight for religious freedom? Did you not know that the Church has been persecuted, since Joseph Smith had the golden plates, by Jeff types who have never had a good word to say about the Church? Do you remember we were persecuted from area to area before we settled in Utah? Do you not remember the Extermination Order that was in force until the 2970s? Do you remember the Prophet was assassinated because he wouldn't recant his beliefs? You probably don't know that since 1985, when I became a member in a religious part of Ireland that I have been persecuted more often than I want to recall. I was ran out of a Bible Study group at university, I was offered to take redundancy when the management of a company I worked for discovered my religion. I was turned down for employment even though I was over qualified and had years of successful experience. I was abused in the street. I was followed by a group of people who acted like demons, telling me I was a demon. I could go on and on.
You are taking Jeff at face value and not analysing what he is really saying. For example, in his video, 'Pastor Reacts to Joseph Smith'. ( Do you notice that he includes his man-made title but doesn't include the Prophet's?) he offers the Prophet 2 backhanded compliments, which are that weak he would have been better to say nothing. However, this type of compliment is a tactic of manipulation. Start off nice and build up to what you really want to say. Well, he wasted no time as he made 27 searing criticism of the Prophet in 9 minutes. He was spitting them our at 3 per minute. Near the end he even says that his LDS subscribers are greater than Joseph and obviously Jeff feels himself greater still. Such arrogance and audacity for him to think he can criticise our Prophet.
Jeff critices everything he reviews about us. Either is has been plagiarised from the Bible or it 'couldn't be right because it doesn't sit well with the Bible. He has read the Book of Mormon but only ever focuses on anti-mormon talking points but never on the beauty, wisdom, or sense the Book of Mormon offers.
If you are into freedom of religion and want to build bridges why don't you start up a channel called Hello Evangelicals and see where that gets you. It will drive you to suicide. You see Evangelicals don't believe in good works, as you deny salvation by grace only. Their god will punish everyone who didn't ask 'Jesus into their heart,' throughout the rest of eternity and the Evangelicals will laugh at you for your stupidity because they will claim that they warned you. Jesus will only save a relatively small amount of people and the rest of us will burn without relief forever. That is not a God I could love, but they do. That shows you the type of people they are. Jeff is an actor and will be exposed in time.
I know this because I was an Evangelical before 1985. We were brainwashed into hating 'mormons'. They still brainwash the members against our Church. Go and listen to David Alexander and he will tell you the same thing. Yeah, pray for him like we pray that all out enemies may not hurt us.
Jeff needs to understand that we don’t see ordinances as works that get us into heaven. They are outward manifestations of our desire to love God, believe in Jesus Christ, and continue to come closer to Them. This then gives us the power to continue to withstand temptation and become more sanctified - further deepening our relationship.
And they are the vehicle that delivers our covenants. Which bind us to God. Which is the key. Is a beautiful thing.
Good call Christ says in John 5 times “if ye love me keep my commandments”. He in the reciprocal does not need to be cleaned of sin but rather starts the process of cleaning sin by being baptized. It was so important that he tells John we must do this to fulfill all righteousness. So Christ starts the redemption of all mankind by “works”. He also says in John, “If you don’t love me don’t keep my commandments”
Thank you Pastor Jeff for sharing your testimony of your relationship with the Savior.
Good job guys on inviting him on your channel and humbly asked the questions that I would want to ask him myself if I were on your shoes.
God Bless all of you for what you guys do.
Great interview. I really enjoyed this conversation.
I love it when two channel heroes come together :)
The idea that there are a bunch of hoops to jump through to enter a covenant relationship with Christ I think is where we as members tend to make the gospel more complicating than it really is. I get where Pastor Jeff is coming from in that regard.
As one who has grown up in the church here is something that has helped see baptism for what it is a little better. We do not make a covenant with God at baptism. We come to baptism having already entered into a covenant relationship with him, or are seeking to make a covenant with him (baptized unto repentance Alma 9:27). Moroni 6:2-3 is very direct about who is baptized. Very direct.
Mosiah 18:10, 13 "...what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye (already) have entered into a covenant with him..."
Mosiah 21:32-33 "And now since the coming of Ammon, king Limhi had also entered into a covenant with God, and also many of his people, to serve him and keep his commandments. And it came to pass that king Limhi and many of his people were desirous to be baptized..."
Here is one scripture to consider on how we enter into a covenant with God. 2 Nephi 30:2 "...for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son..."
This makes sense. Thanks.
Jackson, I think I wore that same outfit thirty years ago in high school!!! Thanks for the great interview and keeping it balanced and real! Keep up the good work.
It totally felt like we were back to the 80s😅
Pastor Jeff might not be a wolf in sheep's clothing, but he is hell bent on convincing the fence sitters to join his church. He is set in his ways.
Agreed. He is not a wolf in sheep's clothing, but definitely a piper playing a tune for those who are not well guarded.
@@stephaniewilliamson4611 LOL 😆 he is preaching the Historical Christianity of God.
You're the group trying to pull people out of their churches! Since 1830.
@@davidjanbaz7728 In 200 years Anti Mormons can't come up with new material? Come on!!!!! If you're gonna trash talk me with your bigotry, be creative at least
He just wants to make a living preaching to Mormons 😂 . I don’t really care what other Christians think. I’ll spend my time on more enlightening sources ❤
And you are to.
"I don't want to fall into the apathetic trap of just being friends with people who are alike me..." I LOVE that. Amen Brother. It is the differences that bring beauty to our world and brings growth as well! Thanks Pastor Jeff, we appreciate your attitude and your approach to this.
I have been watching the videos of the Pastor. I believe he is a Christian. I do not believe he uses the Holy Ghost. I believe he went into checking out the church with less than an open mind. He hasn't been rude about it. I appreciated that he wasn't rude.
If Jeff knew Protestant history, he would realize there's been an evolution of thought, because many early Protestant churches absolutely did teach baptism was essential for salvation. So, why is modern Evangelical thought more authoritative?
Brilliant on all fronts. As a Latter-day Saint since birth myself, I love Pastor Jeff. I think it's great that he moved to Utah - and because of that I think the chances that I'll get a face-to-face meet with him have increased! Any dialogue that brings us closer to Jesus is one worth having - and this one brought me closer to Jesus. Thank you to everyone involved in bringing this conversation to life.
I am grateful for Pastor Jeff… So many of his answers were just “protestant words, salad“… It helps reaffirm the clarity and the simpleness of the restored gospel.
The true, original gospel is so much simpler than the LDS gospel.
Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God.
I Corinthians 15
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Mormonism a works salad.
Fantastic interview. We need people like Jeff and you who build bridges. This is a literal fulfillment of Ephesians 1:10- happening prior to the Second Advent of the Son of God.
P.S. also thank you for bringing up the Deuteronomist revolution in around 600 BC. This was a huge event that has only recently been emphasized among the circles of Bible scholarship. This is why Christ was largely removed from the Old Testament, and why Lehi is preaching (with many Jews seeking his death) at the same time, forcing him to leave and eventually be led to the Americas. It is why Nephi knows so much about Christ and why the Book of Mormon has so many direct and detailed references to Him- as well as the fact that the Nephite nation never fell into complete apostasy like the Jews did (general apostasy for 400 years before Christ).
This is then why John the Baptist was sent. He was sent as an Elias- a preparing and restoring prophet to prepare a fractured people in a general apostasy for the mortal ministry of the Lord.
To that point, we simply see Joseph Smith as another restoring and preparing prophet, just like John, to help the way for the second advent of the Lord.
Your comment is fantastic. 😇
This “works/saved” do we save ourselves by eating food or does God provide all necessary food for us, but we much choose to eat what he provided for us to live? How does he not get that by now?
It’s not that he doesn’t get it, he just likes to word it differently. A lot of the definition that we have and he has don’t match up. For instance, he thinks saved means being in relationship with God. We think saved means losing the desire to sin. What we call exaltation he calls holiness.
Such a great discussion! You all are so smart and his testimony was so heartfelt! Thank you
That was such a beautiful conversation! The spirit was there
2:22 Listening to the beliefs of others is great! I watch evangelical content on UA-cam ALL THE TIME. But when I come across a channel that criticizes my beliefs repeatedly in a very shallow or disingenuous way, in EVERY EPISODE, then I choose to click elsewhere.
I choose to click the scripture and words of the living prophets
I agree, I’m Catholic. I only started watching Pastor Jeff because I knew nothing about Mormonism, and we are getting ready to move to a town that is 98% Mormon. I thought this discussion was interesting, Pastor Jeff doesn’t know much about us Catholics but anyways I really think he will convert to Mormonism even though he says it doesn’t add up to him. I also get sick of podcasts that hate Catholics, so Jeff is the only outside podcaster I watch.
@@CatholicChickAZ You will enjoy David Alexander's channel. He was raised Catholic and lived most of his adult life as an evangelical.
ua-cam.com/video/G7iWuQs9FQ0/v-deo.htmlsi=qtO5AKc5i6myIK8u
Well done brother for this channel i feel you have articulate my thoughts out in the world thank you. Thabsk to jeff too. Im grateful to be lds
Great interview. You asked all the questions I have had concerning his review of the Book of Mormon. Thank you!
I've been a member Of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for many many yrs. I am a blessed woman. Because of my membership it is the bestest gift of all gifts lve received. Am l perfect? I am not! Not one of us are. Were all on our journey. I think it is wonderful what Pastor Jeff is doing. He has been very kind to us, and open minded to learning. He is on his own personal journey, aren't we all. We all need more love + kindness for all. I enjoy Hello Saints, as well. I think Pastor Jeff did a great interview. with The Stick of Joseph. It's better to build then break others down.