I mean, what he's saying is true. DBS Goku is way more akin to how Toriyama wanted him and wrote him to be. He even said that TOEI ruined the character.
@@teeboz6237all do respect to Akira he made our childhoods but clearly based off the community in general most would say z or og dragon ball Goku overall was enjoyable for more reasons then super Goku. Like for example z Goku in the Goku black arc would have felt much more intense like the arc should have felt sure he had small moments but there was plenty times super Goku's antics and obviousness and childishness messes it up. Example: when Goku met Goku black for the first time instead of being excited for a fight (even Goku has lines he draws) he should have immediately been on guard and asking questions before the fight (it's literally himself, in a black and red suit with a Kai earring Goku would be smart enough to be skeptical and serious considering trunks panicking when he attacked him) super Goku was way too overly lighthearted and childish. Not saying Goku isn't lighthearted and childish but they turned that stupid meter up a million with him. When I genuinely enjoyed Goku in super was ultra instinct or battle of gods movie
also gt dub is ass 💀 has the same problems as the og DBZ dub, it tries too much to make Goku angry Superman and in general alters the characters', well, character, way too much for the worse, it's as if they're _trying_ to beat around the bush. Since we don't have GT Kai, the best "adaptation" is just the sub since it's a more direct translation
The ToP thing has always annoyed me and left me baffled as to how the rumour Goku suggested the ToP initially/was his fault even came to be. Champa challenges Beerus to a tournament. Goku and Vegeta just happen to be there and agree to participate. Zeno sees this tournament and HE says he wants to throw his own. Again, Goku just happens to be present and agrees to participate. Goku just reminds him of it which yes, ends up saving the multiverse as a whole. The fact that U7 was in jeopardy in the first place was because Beerus was rubbish at his job. Add on top of that the U6 tournament was Beerus and Champas doing, Beerus literally had nobody to blame but himself.
I will defend super Goku on that, it wasn’t his fault for putting any of the universe in danger. If anything the tournament saved all of them since the zenos we’re going to erase the ones with a low mortal count anyway
Yeah the tournament was the only reason any of them had a chance which if I remember right an angel reminded one of the gods of destruction of that and they just ignored them, and I agree with this take that goku has so more interesting moves he uses showcasing his fight smarts more and having more peace and superiority complex time, but he really left out shit like goku getting hurt by a bullet basically worse than he ever did as a child, and when he legit couldn't figure out Beerus was in a monaka suit fighting him.
“I miss when goku was creative with his skills” “I miss when the fights were hand to hand and not beams only” “I miss when goku was serious and not a child” - Mfs that enever watched Z or Super. Goku redirecting the Kamehameha and using it as a shield to protect himself. Rof’s movie had some amazing hand to hand and one episode i can think of right off the top of my head (pre TOP) was goku vs hit in episode 70 something. Goku in the hospital, and on his way to namek have to be some of the goofiest ive see him, and thats just from early Z. Its like some poeple just want goku to have one character trait 100% of the time instead of letting that trait shine when its really called for. Just so happens its called for in alot of Z.
Goku: Vegeta, put your shitty pride aside and fuse with me to avenge our friends and family!!! Goku immediately after: Nah, it's important to my pride that I fight Majin Buu alone... Fuck fusion!
@@superkamijacobAlso people forget that z Goku does just as many stupid things as super Goku if not more. 1. Not heeding the Supreme Kai's warning about buu. 2. Crushing the potara earrings when fighting buu. 3. Forgetting to take his heart medicine. 4. Not going super saiyan three against Majin Vegeta. 5. Not defeating fat buu when he had the chance. 6. Leaving his family for 10 yrs to train uub when he has instant transmission. And many more.
Ngl. I LOVE the "I am the hope of the universe" speech! I know its not how Goku is supossed to be but It gives me chills when I hear him say, "ALLY TO GOOD! NIGHMARE TO YOU!"
And that is fine! You can absolutely have your own opinion. I prefer Kai, but I'm not denying that a large part of that is because I grew up watching it
I really really got into it and watched it after both came out and dragon ball was in a dry state, and I can say after watching and consuming a lot of db content I do prefer kai
The Tournament of Power is a perfect example for this. No light-hearted jokes from him (besides Ribrianne moments), no dumb decisions like in the Cell Saga, no overestimating or underestimating like in the Buu Saga, instead just sheer focus and concentration on protecting his universe against equals/stronger opponents. Hell, he outright states he wants to protect his friend first and foremost. He got scared when Master Rochi was falling behind, AND WAS READY TO PUMEL HIS ENEMY IN SSJ BLUE TO SAVE THE MAN. It's like using a nuke to blow up a damn cockroach. Super Goku is "dumber" only because he actually has opportunities to essentially be himself, just like you've said. And now that his allies are around his strength, he knows his friends and the Earth will be protected without him (callback to Buu Saga maybe????), and so, he can fuck around and find out whenever he wants.
Holy shit somone finally says it, I'm tired of the whole "Super Goku isn't Goku bs" people will see like an edited clip of Goku being super serious in GT and go "man i miss THIS Goku" like god shut up
@superkamijacob eh that was never a big issue for me even if it didn't end up changing all to much overall, I think the biggest crime of GT is how emotional and actually good the Super 17 arc could've been, all those moments with 18 and 17 were actually really good and it's also Insane to me how those same GT fanboys lump the greatness of not only Baby but his whole arc as equal with the the rest of GT now if I did have one genuine complaint with Super as well just to play devils advocate "more of a personal thing" I really wish they just adapted the best bits of the manga and anime "mainly the manga" into a sorta DBS revamp akin to the likes of FMA Brotherhood
The reason why Goku acts the way he does in Super is because times are just now different now😭 Z had much higher stakes and everybody was constantly in danger and Goku was even dead the majority of the series due to such danger. Super only had one true villian which was Black and that was only because Goku literally chose to fight and stop him since it was a different timeline. Goku is obviously going to be a lot happier and goofier because he actually CAN now.
@@Top_E_Official In the first instance, time got reversed by Whis, further proving our point that the literal deities on Goku's side give him a sense of security. In the second instance, Goku was fully serious for the full duration of the tournament. That's the point, right? RIGHT?
People will hate you for saying it, but yeah, goku is largely just as smart in super ad in Z and id say hes even smarter when it comes to combat. Also, the whole "goku forgot how to meditate" thing, couldve been a valid argument, had it not been a misinterpretation. It was that he was shocked that vegeta was meditating, he didnt even think vegeta knew what it is, so vegeta explained what it was but goku obvioiusly knows. In the super hero movie the staff likely just misinterpreted what the doalogue was supposed to be, but the manga fixed that. Similar scenario with goku not knowing what a kiss is. Bro has 2 kids, itd be wild of he didnt know what a kiss was. It was a joke about trunks bird feeding that was lost in translation so they made it so that goku didnt know what a kiss was. Dbzs dub made goku look greater than he was, while supers dub makes goku look like less than what he is.
The mental gymnastics DBSlop fans have to do to defend DBS 47IQ Goku 😂😂 Defend him forgetting the senzu beans on the toilet and the Mafuba seal in the Goku Black arc lol
I’ll give you the senzu, but the Mafuba was wholeheartedly Roshi’s fault because he in a manga page and in the anime in the Tournament of Power, showed that he could’ve given Goku a jar that already had the seal on it.
well he dont know what a kiss or intimate relations is... he is that pure. so chichi been graping all this time. its sad ok 😟😁 this is why he is allowed to ride nimbus. lol. glad the manga fixed his mediatation statements. that was part of his first training with a god in og db.
@@universalshadow I mean Goku also passed the universe 6 vs 7 per tournament exam. the test had college level questions on it and Goku solved one in particular most people can't solve. dudes not stupid in super, hes just relaxed.
Didn't Goku literally regret doing that as he realized pretty quickly that Gohan wasn't built for that ass beating. And didn't Goku literally have to help defeat Cell even though he's entire plan to have Gohan do it failed badly. The senzu bean was a character mistake made to hype up Cell and Gohans fight. It was a bad writing choice.
@ you meant he saved them you didn’t mention he didn’t know the consequences of losing goku is selfish but is not narcissistic he still cares to a certain degree and by the Moro arc he does gain a sense of justice
Well I focused on the results, not just the understanding. If I did a full in depth analysis, I would talk about how the furry basically gaslit everyone into believing Goku was a villain when in reality, his suggestion saved the universes. Additionally, he just wanted a tournament, but that much was already obvious so i didn't think it was worth mentioning
People just mad because we enjoy more stuff than they. "You are a real dragon ball fan only if you like half of the series" is what they think. Great video brother, keep up the good work.
I agree with most of what's said in the video but you left out stuff like him not being Able to figure out monaka is weak and that beerus is fighting him in a monaka suit even when Vegeta and Piccolo make it even more obvious, and him getting scratched by a bullet before the top when even as a kid he only ever got a bump on the head or bruise from them never have they ever scratched him or worse. Stuff like that where he's just being dumb for super to write him as childlike stupid. He was raised in the mountains but in z did he ever get as bad a read on someone to not figure out someone with such a familiar and stand out ish energy ad beerus or get hurt by stuff as silly as you pointed out the ray gun or a common bullet? I think that's more of what's being said like dude acts like the world's biggest idiot sometimes in Super they legit write him to say he's never had a kiss and doesn't know what it is when he has 2 kids and has had a wife for soooo long.
Cool video, but some really dumb points are made (This is a yap session) How can Super Goku be more accurate than the Goku Toriyama both wrote and drew when writing the original manga? Of course, the Z dub is really inaccurate and unfaithful to the characters, but even so, Super itself is also unfaithful to the characters. At least when considering the development they did go through in the original story. Something I could point on in Super, is Goku's choice to practically make the TOP a thing. While it ended up being a good decision, the Goku by the end of the Boo arc, and therefore the one whom enters Super would not make this choice given his knowledge. Goku learned over the course of his youth and adulthood about the importance of saving the earth and keeping it peaceful, it's a main narrative plot point for his struggles, especially during the Saiyan and Namek arc. You notice in the Cell and Buu arcs, Goku practically never lets an opponent away or get stronger for the reason of wanting to best them himself, it's always a motive that involves someone else. Goku had no idea his decision would end up saving the universes, and in no way would he want to make such a thing happen when it could mean the destruction of everything he loves. As much as he loves to fight, he'd already learned to mature and make decisions that were more important than his own instincts. I just can't see Goku being so oblivious and stupid even, making that decision, much like how he is in a lot of Super. The next problem with Super Goku is the one everyone always mentions, but it is valid. He's just stupid, in a lot of scenes. Which is not who Goku is, at least how he is characterized in the original manga of Dragon Ball. Goku was never stupid, he was naive and ignorant, that is it. In fact he is characterized by making a handful of good and even intelligent situations in scenes, or being the mature figure like when Majin Vegeta killed those innocents in the Budokai. The Super Saiyan 3 point was always dumb to me, because hello? Babadi needs energy, guess what generates and takes an amount of energy almost no one can produce at the time... The Super Saiyan 3 transformation, that would have filled Babadi's meter way quicker than just two SSJ2 fighters, no matter how quickly one thinks he'd beat Vegeta in that form. The OTHER Super Saiyan 3 point is more valid, but it isn't an actual writing flaw but a genuine mistake on Goku's end. He had good intent, but he was ignorant of how unready the kids really were to face Buu. In such a dire, unprepped situation he had to get them as strong as possible and hope for the best. Yeah, SSJ3 Goku could beat Buu. But that would be bad writing, why would you want him to end the arc there with no narrative satisfaction. Just he beat's Buu, doesn't learn anything with the help of Vegeta and Hercule. Gotenks and Gohan's power, along with Vegito don't exist. It just makes the arc really short and an unfinished arc at that. And the Potara thing is just Goku and Vegeta's character dynamic growing into an even more flourished one after their fusion, yeah it's dumb but that's the point. The pride of the Saiyan is something that they respect, and making a dumb decision wont change that. Also it's not like Goku doesn't make bad decisions earlier. Goku spares Vegeta Goku tries to spare the Ginyu force Goku tries to spare Freeza Goku gives Cell the Senzu bean(Despite this one being a part of his plan that is proven to be right) Goku chooses to stay dead(This one being valid at the time but being disproven the next arc on purpose) Those are just some I can think off the top of my head, that no one ever questions besides the Senzu bean moment. And I know it may sound inconsistent, Goku knowing the importance of peace on earth, but crushing the Potara? Yeah, it's a moment that is supposed to focus on Goku and Vegeta's relationship. Their both confident in their strengths and think they can defeat Buu on their own, again it's not a good decision but it's not a decision that you need to look in to much to understand. Also Goku 'disregarding the deaths' of his loved ones is really just him being mature yet again. There's no time to sit around and cry when Boo could destroy the earth at any moment, at this point in time, Goku is a mentor, he's trying to teach the kids what it means to save the world just as he learned in the King Piccolo arc. It's tying in Goku's character which is the main thing I can draw all this back to. Every decision is made to make the narrative come together, and to make the story much better written. Remove those decisions and you get a really badly executed story and Goku literally puts his need to fight over his friends and family in the Saiyan and Namek arcs. He doesn't in the later 2 arcs, that's the whole point, he grows over that. He literally spared Vegeta because he wanted to fight him, Goku knew it was selfish and he still wanted it to happen. In Namek, he let Freeza reach 100 percent of his power and even refused the help of the Dragon Balls to have a full power battle with Freeza as he was most struggling with his Saiyan nature at this point in time. So when it comes to Dragon Ball's Manga or Z as most would put it. Yeah Goku isn't some heroic guy, but he is heavily misunderstood and mischaracterized by many who watch the anime.
(Part 2) Now for Super The reason Super is hated is not because of just the decisions, but the regression of character's growth being so ungodly awful. Goku's first battle against Beerus. He acts cocky and arrogant about his strength, the very thing he almost never did in the original story. He was complacent in the very first arcs, and the king piccolo arc, that was it. That's when he learned and actualized the message Kami and Popo gave to him, why is he all of a sudden back to his kid self? This is where the trend begins, it's just him being regressed over and over and over and that's why Super is badly written. The movie version of Battle of Gods is still a more accurate Goku than the anime, even considering the stakes. After Goku gave it literally everything he could, he still lost fair and square. As much as he prioritizes the safety of earth, he still does love a battle but in this case, he just lost. He couldn't do any more, what do you expect him to do? It gives him a more mature and satisfying send off to this battle than the anime. Now Super apparently giving him more time to be a character is hilarious, most of those moments are somewhat forgettable fillers that while are cute and heart warming, don't do much to the actual character. People love Goku from Z because he has a character arc and a story that is fulfilled and well written. In fact, his fatherhood and adulthood is a part of his character. He is a father to Gohan, a flawed one but what can you expect considering his alien heritage and the situations he's put in? Most importantly, once given the chance he waits for 10 whole years to meet a being he created to nurture and train him like he should. That being the situation with Uub. Plus there's more with Goku than just Gohan in the beginning of Z, like him with Gohan in the Namek arc, the Cell arc, and ya know, the Buu arc. They have great moments together, those moments are just overshined by more important, narrative driven plot points.
Super introduction Beerus and Zeno literally goes against the main idea of Goku's character. Which would be to keep going and surpassing your limits, it's even a main theme stated by Roshi. It is cool seeing Goku get stronger to match them, but once he does, then what? I guess it's okay though, It's not to bad of a thing to introduce but depending on it's execution it could be really badly written. Super Goku is by far dumber than Z Goku. He's always off guard, always ignorant and always naive. It's just traits that Goku had as a kid being applied to his adult self, the Ultra Instinct, especially in the manga is idiotic. He's already learned that type of training, his search for power is also stupid. Goku was never one who thought power was all one needed to succeed like he does against Jiren, the closest you can get is in the Boo and Cell arcs where Goku with not much time has to get the youth ready to battle of a earth threatening enemy. Sure he could do better, but with the time and pressure he had, he did all he could. Goku magically forgetting meditation is so, so stupid that it on it's own is nearly as dumb as any mistake Goku made in Z. How can he forget something so crucial and something he does often? It's also a good way to train yourself, and Goku does not just forget techniques like that..? Especially the way he criticized Vegeta for doing it, that makes it 100x more stupid. Super Goku could never dream of having more depth than Z, I don't even have to say why, just go read the manga. It's not that Super Goku should act the same as he did in Z, it's that Super Goku should be like how he was and be even better than he was in Z. He should be a competent fighter all the time, he should be a mature thinker when the situations get rough. Making mistakes is okay, he should do that to. But he shouldn't be so clueless and regressed most of the time. Now Super Goku does have a few good moments, but a few good moments is nothing compared to a fully fleshed out, well written character that the Goku in the original story is. I'll give you this one though, in Super he does use lots of intelligent techniques, comparable to those in Z, maybe even better. But the afterimage is an outlier, he does that many times as a kid. But just some techniques aren't the whole character, and I can't excuse the many flaws in the depiction of Goku that is DBS Goku. No, DBS Goku is not the same guy. He's an overly ignorant, sometime arrogant man child whom has some resemblance to the man that Z Goku was at times but doesn't hold up at all. And that's only concerning his actions and character traits. As a written character, built around a narrative, Super Goku is literally nothing compared to Goku from the original dragon ball manga. Anyways cool video, I liked it and Rest well Toriyama.
Thank you for this. The really terrible characterization of Goku in the original Z Dub rotted the brains of DB Fans, they all expect Goku to act like batman, rip all his opponents to shreds instantly, and talk like Z Broly all the time. Somethings I'd like to comment on - Goku letting his guard down was pretty justified in ROF, firstly he did do this with Frieza on Namek could actually sense the ki coming towards him while in ROF Goku was exhausted and got shot at by a laser beam (not ki) from someone who had barely any ki signal. He also had 0 reason to think someone like a Frieza solider could sneak up on him because he literally saw Frieza obliterate most of them by just transforming - Goku forgetting the seal is more forgetful than stupid - Goku "forgetting" meditation was actually a mistranslation that was fixed in the manga Good Video overall, its nice to see a DB Yter who doesn't spew misinformation that brainrots DB Fans
I completely agree that goku didn't have time to be goofy or stupid in Z so his dumbass moments in Z aren't too outlandish when you come off of Dragon Ball. DB Super Goku does get time to be goofy and stupid, but the issue is, in comparison to OG dragon ball goku is overly stupid way too much (not all the time, but too much)
I can somewhat agree with that. However, the tone of super as a whole is way different than Z so I believe it causes fans to cherry pick whatever they can to say that super goku is stupid
DBS was written and managed like shit, although yes some can be excused because regardless Toriyama did give some work. Not all of it can be hand waved
Goku has maybe 3 or 4 stupid moments in the manga of super (and 2 of them make alot of sense considering he doesnt have education past maybe first grade level from roshi.) I have only seen the ToP for the anime, but goku was smarter in the anime version of the ToP than he EVER was in Z, so idk where this "Goku was handled poorly in super" comes from, especially since goku was suppossed to be even dumber than he is, yet tactically goku is smarter than ever.
@@rednaxela5960 I think it mostly stems from the Goku Black Saga where Goku forgets important things like the Senzu Beans and the sealing tag for the Mafuba.
For the Buu saga, I genuinely put the blame on everyone who could have ended the saga earlier, especially since in Future Trunks’ timeline, he managed to kill Babbabi and Daurba before they unleashed Buu, so Buu saga could have been avoided if the Z fighters weren’t too busy messing around and being too damn cocky.
That's what I see people around the whole freaking media be saying, they're nostalgia of the old z dub and only watching super from clips made people hateful for dbs and their blind love for gt and dbz, also on the meditation part, that was a mistranslation bc he was surprised that vegeta of all people meditates
This is nice to hear and you have very good points! I also find it funny how you have this absolute BEEF with Great Ape Vegeta in dragon ball sparking zero.
One thing I disagree with you is that Goku is not a hero. He is not a super hero by any means but he often does things that goes against his own desires, making him a hero.
bruh. Did you really need to bring up my 90s bills here. That shit still hurts me to this day, specially my brother I was like barely conscious for when the Bills were good in the 90s.
Wellp, he's got my sub. I grew up on the old Toonami dub but I only really got into Z with Kai as an adult. I like Super Goku, or Toriyama's Goku a hell of a lot more than I like the old U.S. version. I think another reason why the goofy, carefree, bumpkin Goku is better is because he's different. Toriyama's Goku is great because he's flawed, because he isn't completely stoic all the time, because he's selfish at times, arrogant at others and prone to extreme carelessness. That's a much more interesting character than "I'm the light in the darkness, I am here to slay evil while Deftones plays in the background." Goku. It's also why I prefer Goku to Gohan in literally all cases, even though Gohan is equally misunderstood. I think a lot of the contradictions even between dub/sub is because of how off-the-cuff Toriyama was about writing the manga, I think "idiot Goku" is a core part of what makes Dragon Ball so special. That's not to say I don't like the "totally badass warrior guy" version of the character, the old school dub oozed charm and I'll forever prefer the Falcouner score. Excellent video.
The problem with the buu saga was the fact that Goku's character arc was done spanning across OG dragon ball to the cell saga. Toriyama wanted Gohan to become the new protagonist but when he realized it was hard to deliver a good story with Gohan as the protagonist due to him being used to write characters like Goku he decided to bring back Goku. But due to his character arc being finished they were forced to butcher it in the buu saga with the only reason he was there was simply because they just thought they couldn't write a good story around another character. As for super. People didn't dislike Goku cause he wasn't a superhero like he was in Z. They disliked him because he was absolutely stupid. In Z and even in OG dragon ball Goku learned that fighting wasn't all about training the body and learned the importance of meditation. But in Super he litteraly doesn't even remember what meditation is and calls it useless even though in the previous series he explained why meditation was so important. And even though we see Goku and Chi-Chi kiss multiple times throughout the series he says in super that he never kissed before as he didn't know what it was. Yes they wanted to make him goofy but goofy does not equal dumb. They could've made him have a childish personality and make him goofy but they could've kept him smart. Plus critizing Goku for not finishing off Majin Buu when he had the chance is pretty dumb when you also hear super goku state that if he had a senzu bean and went blue he could defeat infinite Zamasu which means he could've easly dealt with Goku Black. And he forgot the jar to trap Zamasu in using the evil containment wave. Which yes justifies him being dumber simply because he absolutely forget everything that he built up and learned throughout Z. Sure super goku is still battle smart and still maintains some battle IQ. But in terms of his normal IQ in everyday life and while training he lacks most braincells which wasn't the case in Z. Super Goku is not better than Z Goku in every way. They are two completely diffrent adaptations of the character. Z Goku shows Goku as this superhero. Super Goku shows him as a dumb goofy selfish fighter who accidently does the right thing. Kai Goku shows him kind of as a superhero but at the same time also a selfish fighter who accidently does the right thing. In the end it depends on the opinion of the viewer wether they like the goof or the hero. Personally I like Goku from Kai more than any other but I did love the other adaptations from super and Z. But in the end the only reason Goku was a the protagonist in the buu saga and super was because Toriyama didn't find a way on how to make Gohan become the protagonist. And to make Goku stay interesting they erased his character arc making him the lovable goof from the og series again. Making him as dumb too. Point being super kind of destroyed all of the character arcs that were shown in Z. Removing Goku's character arc, Vegeta's character arc and even Gohan's. GT kept more to the character arcs than super did. So I think we can all agree that GT is therefore the best dragon ball anime..... Joking obviously. It all depends on opinion on who you liked more and what you liked more.
im convinced that some of the lower comments didnt even finish watching the vid and went straight to commenting lol. also people do need to realize you can like one thing without bringing or shitting on another
That’s exactly what we’re doing we’re just stating our opinions and how we see things. We don’t have to agree to everything that this guy says in the video like your doing
Read the description. Lemme hear you out and watch this whole video before editing this comment with my thoughts if you care. Edit: aye ngl I don’t got time for this LMAO. So far though this video is a pretty good thought piece
I heard of a theory saying that goku actually kinda went insane during his time in the afterlife explaining his odd behaviours in the buu arc and super. And the fact that he lost any sense time or general meaning to life and treats everything as if it won't have any impactful consequences.
Okay that’s good, you meant super anime compared to Z anime, I thought you didn’t understand goku’s character But I don’t see super goku as better than original goku only because super goku is just Z goku’s character being consistent. Tho his development regresses in super and I have to wait till tournament of power until we get the same thing in the buu saga (spirit bomb moment), goku being so happy and dumb is only because of his development in buu saga
Ppl will see a z goku right, the same z goku that mostly on edge the whole series due to constant threats to his FAMILY AND FRIENDS but when they see super goku who had nothing to worry about for years and the moment he starts acting dumb and innocent and goofy(which is literally his character btw) they will say z goku is better like super goku at t.o.p wasnt ready to kill jiren for trying to hurt his friends. Yall saw how mad he got when he did that "YOUR GONNA PAY!!" Z Goku and Super Goku are the same thing, they are just taking it out of context, thats like comparing a guy with a good life and a loving family to Guts. Also gonna add that whenever Z goku isnt on edge he starts acting dumb or goofy, take for example when janemba was terrorizing the verse, goku just stuck out his tongue. Or Goku literally smiling infront of the enemy(Majin Buu, Cell) Z goku and super goku are the same person, Z goku was just more serious if not just as serious as super goku bc he had better things to worry about, if i was able to rest for 6 to 7 years without villians terrorizing me, my friends and my family and the planet i would be relaxed too.
Z Goku was a young adult on a place where being effortlessly planetary was the biggest threat on the universe Super Goku is a man in his 40's who isn't suprised at galaxy busters and just tries to have fun even when he is aware of how much things are stacked against him
2:43 Are you deadass? His eyebrows are slanted to give off a regretful expression as opposed to the anime's stern look. The caption doesn't help me tell if you're joking or not
People who say goku in super is dumb then compare goku from Z to super is jut so dumb 😭 Goku in Z dose not have a lot of options like he dose in super that’s why he’s more relaxed he knows if he goes down then someone will take his place like vegeta. And goku in Z dose not have that option because he is the only person that’s strong enough to save the day like what we see in the Frieza saga and especially the Buu saga. This is very explicit in the Buu saga because one goku was always the strongest hero in that saga but when Gohan had gotten his ultimate form he surpassed Goku during that short time frame. But when he got absorbed Goku got put back on the back burner so he had no choice but to act and take things not a serious as he dose in super all because he isn’t in that life or die situation majority of the time in super. People just love it when goku is all serious and “Katarot” mode but that’s not who he is. He’s not or has ever been the sharpest tool in the shed but he makes up for it in many ways. People just hate super Goku because they don’t understand him as a character.
@@superkamijacob Saiyans are not known for being intellectually smart. Gohan and Trunks are outliers due to being half human. The entire character trait of Saiyans is loving to beat the tar out of each other no matter the situation.
Listen, guys, would Thukuna really go as easy on the Main cast squadron if his technique got forfeited? Same with cell, better give the boi some time to wind up, usually worked for Gohan. Too bad his literal father mistaken him getting fed up with someone's shit and kicking their ass afterwards for love for fighting and warming up.
In the end no matter what happens...no matter what you or me, or literally ANYONE else that did research says....the old saying will always stand for most of the other "fans" "Dont mess with us Dragon Ball fans, we havent watched our own show"
That was a translation error, Goku in the Sub was commenting on Trunks mama birding Mai and Vegeta thought that Goku was referring to a kiss, leaving Goku thoroughly confused, I mean we literally see him kiss Chi Chi in the forehead in the anime.
Goku is overhated And in this video he is over glazed Imo Z goku and super goku are both the same The thing that makes a character good for me is when they have flaws and arent perfect (unless theyre cell) And thats probably why i love konosuba
Hang on, I remember Bulma suggesting *using the Dragon Balls to figure out where Gero was.* I don't think she would've suggested that if she knew where he lived.
Hell you can even bring up that one moment in the manga when Spopovich was beating up Videl and Gohan was angry about it. In the manga Goku tells Gohan: "Calm down Gohan! Its not like shes gonna die!" With a surprised expression rather than the serious one he had in the manga. Compared to the "Hey no stop, just calm down, dont do it Gohan. Youre not going out there." With a more serious expression.
GOKU"S ULTIMATE FANTASY: A STRONG WARRIOR SUDDENLY APPEARS WHO'RE CRAZY STRONG AND WISH TO CHALLENGE THE STRONGEST WARRIOR ON EARTH WITHOUT DAMAGING THE PLANET AND HURTING OTHER LIVING BEINGS Bro's wet dream for sure!!!!!
They called me a fool... they called me a bunch of stuff because *i know how to read my favorite series.* 1st: people never rewatched Z again aftee rewatching Super. Making alot of their takes based on what they remember. 2: Most of fans who say Z wa serious are ENG watchers. That shit changed the entire image of goku. Japanese Z goku = Super goku
Goku didn't use ssj3 against vegeta for some reasons Inverse reasons: -Goku didn't wanted to shatter vegeta's pride by one-shotting him -the energy that would be released would prob be enough to awaken buu anyway Outverse reasons: -ssj3 didn't existed yet
Goku giving cell a sensu bean isn’t that dumb when you take into account that every villian Goku has fought made the planet a hostage when they got backed into a corner which is what cell ends up doing.
Na Super Goku is so out of character. Like the man is 50 still acting like a fish out of water as if it’s chapter 1 of the manga. Even GT got Goku’s silliness and seriousness more balanced than Super did. Nice try tho.
*(This is me just rambling, ignore if you want to)* Kinda unrelated, but my Favorite itteration of Goku has to be the Kai dub Goku. Idk, he just feels like a perfect blend of the heroism of OG Dub (One i never grew up with), and the fun loving, carefree version he is in Super. I've already know GT is the sequel to the og dub, while Super is the sequel to Kai with how Goku acts, but i just like how Kai Goku's a mix of the two.
I agree super has some great goku moments and he can be light hearted the issues I have with super goku is his regression in training he mastered years ago like not knowing what meditation was stuff like that makes him feel stupid and goku was never an idiot he sometimes made easily avoidable mistakes and he grew up away from society so it took him a while to get adjusted to regular things like cars planes what a girl is etc but he was mostly normal and even had an ok education by z (master roshi taught maths and english along with martial arts in dragonball) so goku was never dumb just naive and is a master martial artist and doesnt need to be told by vegeta of all people what meditation is I mean goku on namek got to the point he could even read minds and dig holes in the ground with a thought so he clearly had mastery over his mind and soul atleast to some degree. sorry for my rant TLDR Goku not dumb and I dont like how super makes him regress in things he mastered years ago like he never learnt it
It's funny how he begins to make these decisions after turning into a super saiyan for the first time. Like its as if that form messed with his head or something. I know he did stupid stuff before, but something as stupid as giving a senzu bean to someone who's trying to kill his own son?! Super saiyan done something to him fr😂
I think it mostly has to do with what Goku feels is right, wrong and fair, but predominantly not understanding his son. Just look at the 23rd Budokai to see Goku wanting the fight to be a fair one one one despite the fact that the world would be doomed if Piccolo wasn't defeated. It's pretty much always been about Goku's nature and nurture.
Dragon Ball Super Fans VS Dragon Ball Z Fans War? Im siding with DBS i like both but reason i chose DBS is because DBZ fans often view DBS as disappointment and us DBS fans are here to prove them wrong
I still think DBS Goku sucks, but the community doesn't have good arguments against him. He's a shitty protagonist but people focus way too much on the "dumb" thing and don't really see how the two characters are sold differently and one is just incapable of selling anything. Basically, DBS is just if the Goku vs. Majin Vegeta fight was the whole show, except if you knew that Goku had SSj3 in his back pocket when you first watched it, and he has no real in-universe reason to not pull it out. For most of the anime, he's written around his strongest power that has literally no downsides (SSJ blue), which means he has no actual reason to not be in Blue unless he's fucking around, so in fights like against Kale and Caulifla most of his dialogue is "wow! i can't wait to only NOW get serious!", like it didn't grow stale the first fourty times he said this. Seriously, if I wanna draw a comparison, I'm gonna ignore the bigger fights and I'm gonna say to re-watch his fight against Jeice and Burter, and compare the dialogue and his actions in that fight against DBS Goku's fight against Kale and Caulifla. Cause if DBS Goku was fighting against Jeice and Burter, he'd have ran even with them in Base form and then said "wow! you're really strong! i'm gonna go even further beyond!" and then he'd go kaioken x4 or something. Would that be as impactful as how that fight actually went? When Goku isn't saying the same line about "Hi! I'm Goku and I love training!", and over-using Dragon Ball tropes, then it means the show is usually using cringe-ass anime protagonist tropes. Imagine if Saiyan Saga Goku got a random powerboost against Vegeta because he had a flashback to all of his friends. Wouldn't that be fucking lame? Cause he did that against Jiren. Imagine if Namek Saga Goku saw Krillin die and his dialogue was "Now I'm mad! I'm really REALLY mad!!!!", and he just went Kaioken x30 with no downsides. Because that's actual dialogue against Zamasu. Imagine if Cell Saga Goku saw Cell's regeneration, and instead of planning around it, he said "I don't give a DAMN about your regeneration!". Because this is also actual dialogue he had against Zamasu's immortality, and he follows this up with the fucking useless Ki-spam. Is this your goat??? This ain't my goat. I see two different people. Back to SSJ Blue, Goku doesn't pull it ou because it's literally impossible to make it into an interesting solution to the problems, so even when he DOES pull it out, he's going to job. So he's either fucking around, or he's being completely useless. The show should absolutely be careful about how Goku putting his strongest forms in his back pocket can kill tension. It's something that needs to be written around carefully, and the DBS anime just does not do it. In fact, it's SO unwilling to care about tension that in the only sagas where they have a real villain (res F and Future Trunks sagas), the conflict is solved by Goku just calling in a bigger god than the opponent. You could cut out all of the fights in the series after BOG until the TOP, because literally NONE of them matter. Universe 6 had no stakes (Goku just walked out), Res F's fight didn't matter because the conflict was solved by Whis's time bullshittery, and GB Saga had Goku pull out a fucking win button to call the big guy upstairs. This show's more about prayer than it is about fighting, considering all the conflicts were solved by Goku calling a god. Even Blue Kaioken's downsides don't matter, because its downsides don't actually affect the fight. In the original manga, Goku's kaioken x4 and kaioken x20 overtax his body and he becomes super weak and basically useless after he uses them, and they have an actual impact on the flow of the fight. In DBS it ruins his casual life, but the fight doesn't get impacted because the fight doesn't matter. This isn't helped at all by the fact that the show is trying to sell us on the power of god ki, yet the two plots that focus on bringing in the multiverses to challenge the MCs literally only have one character who actually uses god ki. And even then, Toppo gets sidelined for his teammate who does NOT have god-ki anyways. Not all of these writing issues are Goku's fault, it's the fault of a lot of different things that make literally everything in the DBS anime flaccid and, dare I say, dickless. Yknow, aside from BOG, the TOP (which is only MOSTLY cringe and not ENTIRELY cringe), and everything after the TOP. It's a shame the anime ended immediately after they gave Goku a form that allowed him to actually be written into interesting scenarios again, but at least the manga does handle his character much better, if nothing else because they cared to give SSJ Blue okay reason to not be used 24/7. But it's a shame it has to follow the flaccid plot of the anime for a long time.
I'd go as far as to say that the manga enhances his character even more by the Moro arc, as it actually forces him to earnestly become the hero he often pretended to be. Giving him rare moments of progression. Vegeta, especially (best character in Super).
Super Goku claims to not understand what a kiss is (Zamasu arc when he sees trunks and mai, and has a conversation with vegeta), couldn't tell when fighting monaka that it was just a costume, lost tons of fighting experience to make training under whis seem relevant, forgot what meditation is, cant understand basic social queues to a way more extreme extent than in z, etc etc. Hes gotten so one dimensional that when gohan, his son that hes gone through so much with, tells him that hes having a kid he stares blankly and says some stupid line about food and laughs. But this issue isn't exclusive to goku, it never was. Most characters in the cast of dragonball have experienced an overexaggeration of their personalities despite any character development they got in Z. Its not like goku was never stupid at any point in z, but now thats ALL he is, an airhead.
I hate that kiss comparison so much 🤦 goku dose NOT know what mamma birding a sensu bean is. And this is the same guy who thought marriage was a food btw. Your just nip picking super gokus air headedness while goku in Z was just as dumb. And when was it the last time goku has ever seen vegeta meditate? Can u explain the whole whis thing again like what do you mean he lost a lot of experience
@Purple_23184 In that kiss scene, vegeta straight up asks goku if hes ever kissed someone. He didn't ask if he's ever fed someone with his mouth, he asked if he's ever kissed anyone. Goku's response is "No, people do that?". Goku knows ATLEAST three married couples and IS married, and doesn't have any idea what a kiss is? Also the whole not knowing what marriage is back in OG dragon ball is excusable because he's still adjusting to society and theres no one in his life that would be married unlike a normal person raised in civilization.
@ Yeah but still it’s Goku we are talking about and it’s not excusable Goku was NEVER smart in OG, Z, GT or Super y’all acting like he was ever smart period? Goku was serious in Z because they always had to stress over the fact the earth was always in danger or Goku was just straight up dead. In Super Goku is serious but not like he was in Z because everyone was pretty much dependable at that point in time like Vegeta
You underestimate how bad the meditation scene really is because in comparison to DBZ goku sees Vageta and knows whether he's meditating or not when he is on the rock, and the Vageta scene in Z is more important than him just being arrogant, its telling Vageta to not overwork one's muscles when he was going into the chamber again which now in the scene which is telling Goku not to do, not to mention his db training. There is a far better barbaric strong monster right next to them ahem BROLY who can learn so much more from this than the guy who we saw multiple times do this. I also dislike super gokus mannerisms like the kiss thing when he literally kissed Chichi in Z or the way he talks like a 3-year-old and feels like he doesn't know what's happening. Like his line where he's training with krillian in Super and gets annoyed when he's restricted and bumbed out he cant transform and I feel like Z Goku or I guess Goku in general would enjoy a challenge like that. I will give you this he does have a smart scene like him convincing Freiza to join the tournament very good smart Goku scene there. Overall I do agree that Goku has always been prideful of his strength and I do like that of him but his mannerisms are annoying to me in super. This is a pretty good video and argument for Super Goku. I definitely disagree with the bad father argument that everyone gives Goku since he has repeatedly shown to care for his sons (ahem buu saga sucks). The Buu saga is very very flawed compared to the rest of the saga and is a downward spiral when looking at it. Senzu Bean is less bad than people think since he was technically right Gohan completely shits on cell and he makes up for it by sacrificing himself. Another stupid super Goku scene is literally in the manga where he gets UI by remembering he is a martial artist and another far worse Senzu Bean scene.
Goku giving Cell a Senzu Bean isn’t really the dumbest move he made in this arc, it was not making more plans and relying completely on only one. The Senzu Bean situation made sense, if Gohan managed to prove himself a threat against a weaker Cell, then he likely wouldn’t care to know about what his foe’s full potential looked like (in short, wether Cell would kill Gohan or not in a weakened state was an unknown and not worth finding out). As for Goku’s plan, if Gohan failed, then everyone on earth dies and the universe is Cell’s playground. Goku could have trained more until unlocking the same power his son showed off (he had a whole week, plenty of time to train a while in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and then spend time working on the Gohan plan by spending time showing him what he could lose) and/or he could have learned the Mafuba, but instead he risked everyone’s lives on this one plan.
This conflict is not exclusive of the English version, the same happens in the latin American version which is an adaptation from the original source and people tend to say things like he’s more mature and serious in Z than Super, even saying he is like a child but they ignore the way Toriyama even makes his stories, saying that Super is less serious and with an absurd humor when you have the manga of Dr. Slump from the same author which most recurring joke is Arale using a stick with poo to mess with people. Also Goku didn’t finished Majin Buu because he said it wasn’t his responsibility since he doesn’t belong to the world of the living and doing it would cause someone worse could appear
And this is why adult Goku in original dragon ball is superior -silly -high battle iq -smart -lets piccolo leave because he knows he's good (also kami would die but whatava)
i mean, im split on this. comparing z and kai doesnt really work for me because how goku was when he was a kid, sure he never set out to be a hero, but when injustice and disaster struck around him he couldnt turn a blind eye. hes not pure of heart in the sense he just donsnt think sneaky or evil thoughts, he wants to see the world better and happier too. goku not seeming as mad about krillin's death in z is no fault of translation, its just how the acting is done and the emphasis on certain undertones, they are, almost 100% the same scene. what about gokus speech? it is VERY within goku's nature to intimidate and get in the heads of opponents and even have a heroic flare at times, it happened alot in og dragon ball even if it was subtle, while going for the hero act dosnt sell his blind rage nearly as well it certainly works. kai is also great!! but falls a little short in the undertone of goku's feelings about saving others, at times it goes a little far in the not a hero direction and makes goku seem like a snarky halfwit with no consideration for others, and thats just never been goku, even when hes apathetic towards the going ons and lives of others he's happy to step in for their protection i dont want goku to be superman, but he also dosnt have to be a pro boxer yk? hes in it for the love of the game, but cares for something bigger deep down. in a lot of ways goku is just a less extreme, underground (and actually powerful) mr. Satan. when it came down to it he went to fight majin buu without any camera crew or expectation of recognition. my conclusion is that z and kai focused on very different parts of goku's character for a different show tone. one is a story about saving the world long enough for someone to pick up his duty, having fun along the way pushing higher and higher. and the other is a fighter so in love with the art he cant wait for the next biggest threat, but deep down having a feeling of duty to the defenseless, he loves it so much he wants his son and found family to be as powerful as him and know the joys of climbing higher, pushing it too hard on a gohan that isnt a fighter like him. both very good stories for very good purposes. thats why i love this one fan edit that mashes the two together in a very coherent way, i cant think of what its called though
Bros been smoking that pilaf pack with this take 💀
Goated
Not the Pilaf pack. The King Picolo pack💀
I mean, what he's saying is true. DBS Goku is way more akin to how Toriyama wanted him and wrote him to be. He even said that TOEI ruined the character.
@@teeboz6237all do respect to Akira he made our childhoods but clearly based off the community in general most would say z or og dragon ball Goku overall was enjoyable for more reasons then super Goku. Like for example z Goku in the Goku black arc would have felt much more intense like the arc should have felt sure he had small moments but there was plenty times super Goku's antics and obviousness and childishness messes it up.
Example: when Goku met Goku black for the first time instead of being excited for a fight (even Goku has lines he draws) he should have immediately been on guard and asking questions before the fight (it's literally himself, in a black and red suit with a Kai earring Goku would be smart enough to be skeptical and serious considering trunks panicking when he attacked him) super Goku was way too overly lighthearted and childish. Not saying Goku isn't lighthearted and childish but they turned that stupid meter up a million with him. When I genuinely enjoyed Goku in super was ultra instinct or battle of gods movie
conclusion is gohan's fault in The majin buu saga
The worst part is. People would usually take the best goku clip from z or GT while then using a bad clip from super
Exactly
Its annoying when they compare GT to Super
also gt dub is ass 💀 has the same problems as the og DBZ dub, it tries too much to make Goku angry Superman and in general alters the characters', well, character, way too much for the worse, it's as if they're _trying_ to beat around the bush. Since we don't have GT Kai, the best "adaptation" is just the sub since it's a more direct translation
@@beibkk0Every dub of GT represents Goku as heroic. They went all out with GT hero Goku.
Because there isnt a good clip from super 🗿🗿🗿🗿
Facts. DBS Goku is just Goku enjoying his life to the fullest if you think of it
Fax
Exactly why I like Pre-Cell Games Goku
Yeah dbs goku seems like he is just vibing fr fr.
Nah he's dumbed down fr fr. The lowest of goku z doesn't compare to the lowest of goku super
The ToP thing has always annoyed me and left me baffled as to how the rumour Goku suggested the ToP initially/was his fault even came to be.
Champa challenges Beerus to a tournament. Goku and Vegeta just happen to be there and agree to participate. Zeno sees this tournament and HE says he wants to throw his own. Again, Goku just happens to be present and agrees to participate.
Goku just reminds him of it which yes, ends up saving the multiverse as a whole. The fact that U7 was in jeopardy in the first place was because Beerus was rubbish at his job. Add on top of that the U6 tournament was Beerus and Champas doing, Beerus literally had nobody to blame but himself.
HMMMMM! let em cook
THIS
I will defend super Goku on that, it wasn’t his fault for putting any of the universe in danger. If anything the tournament saved all of them since the zenos we’re going to erase the ones with a low mortal count anyway
Yeah the tournament was the only reason any of them had a chance which if I remember right an angel reminded one of the gods of destruction of that and they just ignored them, and I agree with this take that goku has so more interesting moves he uses showcasing his fight smarts more and having more peace and superiority complex time, but he really left out shit like goku getting hurt by a bullet basically worse than he ever did as a child, and when he legit couldn't figure out Beerus was in a monaka suit fighting him.
So he did with vegeta and frieza. He literally spared them which can just one day blow up the earth in secret if they wanted to.
“I miss when goku was creative with his skills” “I miss when the fights were hand to hand and not beams only” “I miss when goku was serious and not a child” - Mfs that enever watched Z or Super.
Goku redirecting the Kamehameha and using it as a shield to protect himself.
Rof’s movie had some amazing hand to hand and one episode i can think of right off the top of my head (pre TOP) was goku vs hit in episode 70 something.
Goku in the hospital, and on his way to namek have to be some of the goofiest ive see him, and thats just from early Z.
Its like some poeple just want goku to have one character trait 100% of the time instead of letting that trait shine when its really called for. Just so happens its called for in alot of Z.
My guy went from fighting his own kind to a literal GOD and they are still demanding my man to fight hand to hand, like what???
@@IYIisterJackyMajority of Goku Vs Beerus in BoG was hand to hand🤦♂️
You must have stopped watching Z at that point. Z Goku was far better then Super Goku throughout Z.
@@user-im1hu8ci3g Thats because Beerus was holding back
@@user-im1hu8ci3g Im ngl I kinda dropped during the middle of Buu Saga
I have finally found YOU!!! A DRAGON BALL FAN THAT READS THE SERIES!!!
Mhm! Watched it many times
Frfr a true rarity
@@wwaltonfaxs
You actually bring up some very good points
Thank you good sir
Goku: Vegeta, put your shitty pride aside and fuse with me to avenge our friends and family!!!
Goku immediately after: Nah, it's important to my pride that I fight Majin Buu alone... Fuck fusion!
YES FR!
@@superkamijacobAlso people forget that z Goku does just as many stupid things as super Goku if not more.
1. Not heeding the Supreme Kai's warning about buu.
2. Crushing the potara earrings when fighting buu.
3. Forgetting to take his heart medicine.
4. Not going super saiyan three against Majin Vegeta.
5. Not defeating fat buu when he had the chance.
6. Leaving his family for 10 yrs to train uub when he has instant transmission.
And many more.
@@Freegrace421you take the L for the day
@@BrotherB1ackHeartSavage please tell me why I'm wrong.
The fact that Goku didn't use kiaoken against zamasu until they fused just so goku black couldn't copy it is proof enough
Didn’t even think of that😮
Ngl. I LOVE the "I am the hope of the universe" speech! I know its not how Goku is supossed to be but It gives me chills when I hear him say, "ALLY TO GOOD! NIGHMARE TO YOU!"
The Kai version is FAR better
And that is fine! You can absolutely have your own opinion. I prefer Kai, but I'm not denying that a large part of that is because I grew up watching it
@@superkamijacobhumble af
I really really got into it and watched it after both came out and dragon ball was in a dry state, and I can say after watching and consuming a lot of db content I do prefer kai
Understandable, have a great day👍
The Tournament of Power is a perfect example for this. No light-hearted jokes from him (besides Ribrianne moments), no dumb decisions like in the Cell Saga, no overestimating or underestimating like in the Buu Saga, instead just sheer focus and concentration on protecting his universe against equals/stronger opponents. Hell, he outright states he wants to protect his friend first and foremost. He got scared when Master Rochi was falling behind, AND WAS READY TO PUMEL HIS ENEMY IN SSJ BLUE TO SAVE THE MAN. It's like using a nuke to blow up a damn cockroach.
Super Goku is "dumber" only because he actually has opportunities to essentially be himself, just like you've said. And now that his allies are around his strength, he knows his friends and the Earth will be protected without him (callback to Buu Saga maybe????), and so, he can fuck around and find out whenever he wants.
YES!
Bro planted ki mines under Jiren, Ki mines!
Gt Goku ain't doing any of this
An actual dragon ball fan with media literacy? Impossible!
I know right? Crazy
Finally someone else who agrees that super Goku is in character
Damn rite
6:35 actually that’s a pretty good view point on the whole goku essentially dragging all these universes into a battlefield for their survival 😭
Well yes and no. Cuz some wolf guy made it propaganda against Goku when it was clear the universes were gonna be wiped out anyway
Holy shit somone finally says it, I'm tired of the whole "Super Goku isn't Goku bs" people will see like an edited clip of Goku being super serious in GT and go "man i miss THIS Goku" like god shut up
Basically, super saiyan 4 goku in GT
@superkamijacob and I like that one alot, it's my favorite form
Same, but probably mainly for the reason that I hated how they reverted goku to a kid
@superkamijacob eh that was never a big issue for me even if it didn't end up changing all to much overall, I think the biggest crime of GT is how emotional and actually good the Super 17 arc could've been, all those moments with 18 and 17 were actually really good and it's also Insane to me how those same GT fanboys lump the greatness of not only Baby but his whole arc as equal with the the rest of GT now if I did have one genuine complaint with Super as well just to play devils advocate "more of a personal thing" I really wish they just adapted the best bits of the manga and anime "mainly the manga" into a sorta DBS revamp akin to the likes of FMA Brotherhood
Yeah because he’s barley ever serious in super and treats every situation the same way
The reason why Goku acts the way he does in Super is because times are just now different now😭 Z had much higher stakes and everybody was constantly in danger and Goku was even dead the majority of the series due to such danger. Super only had one true villian which was Black and that was only because Goku literally chose to fight and stop him since it was a different timeline. Goku is obviously going to be a lot happier and goofier because he actually CAN now.
Exactly
What are you on about? The earth got freaking destroyed, and the entire multiverse was at the mercy of Zeno. DBS by no means was a peaceful time.
@@Top_E_Official In the first instance, time got reversed by Whis, further proving our point that the literal deities on Goku's side give him a sense of security.
In the second instance, Goku was fully serious for the full duration of the tournament. That's the point, right? RIGHT?
People will hate you for saying it, but yeah, goku is largely just as smart in super ad in Z and id say hes even smarter when it comes to combat. Also, the whole "goku forgot how to meditate" thing, couldve been a valid argument, had it not been a misinterpretation. It was that he was shocked that vegeta was meditating, he didnt even think vegeta knew what it is, so vegeta explained what it was but goku obvioiusly knows. In the super hero movie the staff likely just misinterpreted what the doalogue was supposed to be, but the manga fixed that. Similar scenario with goku not knowing what a kiss is. Bro has 2 kids, itd be wild of he didnt know what a kiss was. It was a joke about trunks bird feeding that was lost in translation so they made it so that goku didnt know what a kiss was. Dbzs dub made goku look greater than he was, while supers dub makes goku look like less than what he is.
Couldn't agree more.
The mental gymnastics DBSlop fans have to do to defend DBS 47IQ Goku 😂😂
Defend him forgetting the senzu beans on the toilet and the Mafuba seal in the Goku Black arc lol
I’ll give you the senzu, but the Mafuba was wholeheartedly Roshi’s fault because he in a manga page and in the anime in the Tournament of Power, showed that he could’ve given Goku a jar that already had the seal on it.
well he dont know what a kiss or intimate relations is... he is that pure.
so chichi been graping all this time. its sad ok 😟😁
this is why he is allowed to ride nimbus. lol.
glad the manga fixed his mediatation statements. that was part of his first training with a god in og db.
@@universalshadow I mean Goku also passed the universe 6 vs 7 per tournament exam. the test had college level questions on it and Goku solved one in particular most people can't solve.
dudes not stupid in super, hes just relaxed.
Giving cell a Sansu bean is not a mistake
Maybe not, but a lot of people considered it one
Why?
@@superkamijacobif you are counting what people think instead of what you think isn't that kind of hypocritical
Honestly I think it was a mistake since it just made it harder for gihan even though he could win but maybe it was blessing in disguise
Didn't Goku literally regret doing that as he realized pretty quickly that Gohan wasn't built for that ass beating. And didn't Goku literally have to help defeat Cell even though he's entire plan to have Gohan do it failed badly.
The senzu bean was a character mistake made to hype up Cell and Gohans fight. It was a bad writing choice.
Ong ive been saying this for a while
People love to crap on Super Goku
Goku only Goes serious in fights when the situation calls for it
Exactly
5:56 too be fair Goku didn’t know that the universes would be erased he thought it was a normal tournament
Yes, I made this point
@ you meant he saved them you didn’t mention he didn’t know the consequences of losing goku is selfish but is not narcissistic he still cares to a certain degree and by the Moro arc he does gain a sense of justice
Well I focused on the results, not just the understanding. If I did a full in depth analysis, I would talk about how the furry basically gaslit everyone into believing Goku was a villain when in reality, his suggestion saved the universes. Additionally, he just wanted a tournament, but that much was already obvious so i didn't think it was worth mentioning
People just mad because we enjoy more stuff than they.
"You are a real dragon ball fan only if you like half of the series" is what they think.
Great video brother, keep up the good work.
Well said. Thank you!
I agree with most of what's said in the video but you left out stuff like him not being Able to figure out monaka is weak and that beerus is fighting him in a monaka suit even when Vegeta and Piccolo make it even more obvious, and him getting scratched by a bullet before the top when even as a kid he only ever got a bump on the head or bruise from them never have they ever scratched him or worse. Stuff like that where he's just being dumb for super to write him as childlike stupid. He was raised in the mountains but in z did he ever get as bad a read on someone to not figure out someone with such a familiar and stand out ish energy ad beerus or get hurt by stuff as silly as you pointed out the ray gun or a common bullet? I think that's more of what's being said like dude acts like the world's biggest idiot sometimes in Super they legit write him to say he's never had a kiss and doesn't know what it is when he has 2 kids and has had a wife for soooo long.
Thank you for defending super Goku but most importantly understanding super goku. Subbed
Thanks for the sub!
Cool video, but some really dumb points are made (This is a yap session)
How can Super Goku be more accurate than the Goku Toriyama both wrote and drew when writing the original manga?
Of course, the Z dub is really inaccurate and unfaithful to the characters, but even so, Super itself is also unfaithful to the characters. At least when considering the development they did go through in the original story.
Something I could point on in Super, is Goku's choice to practically make the TOP a thing. While it ended up being a good decision, the Goku by the end of the Boo arc, and therefore the one whom enters Super would not make this choice given his knowledge. Goku learned over the course of his youth and adulthood about the importance of saving the earth and keeping it peaceful, it's a main narrative plot point for his struggles, especially during the Saiyan and Namek arc. You notice in the Cell and Buu arcs, Goku practically never lets an opponent away or get stronger for the reason of wanting to best them himself, it's always a motive that involves someone else. Goku had no idea his decision would end up saving the universes, and in no way would he want to make such a thing happen when it could mean the destruction of everything he loves. As much as he loves to fight, he'd already learned to mature and make decisions that were more important than his own instincts. I just can't see Goku being so oblivious and stupid even, making that decision, much like how he is in a lot of Super.
The next problem with Super Goku is the one everyone always mentions, but it is valid. He's just stupid, in a lot of scenes. Which is not who Goku is, at least how he is characterized in the original manga of Dragon Ball. Goku was never stupid, he was naive and ignorant, that is it. In fact he is characterized by making a handful of good and even intelligent situations in scenes, or being the mature figure like when Majin Vegeta killed those innocents in the Budokai.
The Super Saiyan 3 point was always dumb to me, because hello? Babadi needs energy, guess what generates and takes an amount of energy almost no one can produce at the time... The Super Saiyan 3 transformation, that would have filled Babadi's meter way quicker than just two SSJ2 fighters, no matter how quickly one thinks he'd beat Vegeta in that form.
The OTHER Super Saiyan 3 point is more valid, but it isn't an actual writing flaw but a genuine mistake on Goku's end. He had good intent, but he was ignorant of how unready the kids really were to face Buu. In such a dire, unprepped situation he had to get them as strong as possible and hope for the best. Yeah, SSJ3 Goku could beat Buu. But that would be bad writing, why would you want him to end the arc there with no narrative satisfaction. Just he beat's Buu, doesn't learn anything with the help of Vegeta and Hercule. Gotenks and Gohan's power, along with Vegito don't exist. It just makes the arc really short and an unfinished arc at that. And the Potara thing is just Goku and Vegeta's character dynamic growing into an even more flourished one after their fusion, yeah it's dumb but that's the point. The pride of the Saiyan is something that they respect, and making a dumb decision wont change that. Also it's not like Goku doesn't make bad decisions earlier.
Goku spares Vegeta
Goku tries to spare the Ginyu force
Goku tries to spare Freeza
Goku gives Cell the Senzu bean(Despite this one being a part of his plan that is proven to be right)
Goku chooses to stay dead(This one being valid at the time but being disproven the next arc on purpose)
Those are just some I can think off the top of my head, that no one ever questions besides the Senzu bean moment.
And I know it may sound inconsistent, Goku knowing the importance of peace on earth, but crushing the Potara? Yeah, it's a moment that is supposed to focus on Goku and Vegeta's relationship. Their both confident in their strengths and think they can defeat Buu on their own, again it's not a good decision but it's not a decision that you need to look in to much to understand.
Also Goku 'disregarding the deaths' of his loved ones is really just him being mature yet again. There's no time to sit around and cry when Boo could destroy the earth at any moment, at this point in time, Goku is a mentor, he's trying to teach the kids what it means to save the world just as he learned in the King Piccolo arc. It's tying in Goku's character which is the main thing I can draw all this back to. Every decision is made to make the narrative come together, and to make the story much better written. Remove those decisions and you get a really badly executed story and Goku literally puts his need to fight over his friends and family in the Saiyan and Namek arcs. He doesn't in the later 2 arcs, that's the whole point, he grows over that. He literally spared Vegeta because he wanted to fight him, Goku knew it was selfish and he still wanted it to happen. In Namek, he let Freeza reach 100 percent of his power and even refused the help of the Dragon Balls to have a full power battle with Freeza as he was most struggling with his Saiyan nature at this point in time.
So when it comes to Dragon Ball's Manga or Z as most would put it. Yeah Goku isn't some heroic guy, but he is heavily misunderstood and mischaracterized by many who watch the anime.
(Part 2) Now for Super
The reason Super is hated is not because of just the decisions, but the regression of character's growth being so ungodly awful. Goku's first battle against Beerus. He acts cocky and arrogant about his strength, the very thing he almost never did in the original story. He was complacent in the very first arcs, and the king piccolo arc, that was it. That's when he learned and actualized the message Kami and Popo gave to him, why is he all of a sudden back to his kid self? This is where the trend begins, it's just him being regressed over and over and over and that's why Super is badly written.
The movie version of Battle of Gods is still a more accurate Goku than the anime, even considering the stakes. After Goku gave it literally everything he could, he still lost fair and square. As much as he prioritizes the safety of earth, he still does love a battle but in this case, he just lost. He couldn't do any more, what do you expect him to do? It gives him a more mature and satisfying send off to this battle than the anime.
Now Super apparently giving him more time to be a character is hilarious, most of those moments are somewhat forgettable fillers that while are cute and heart warming, don't do much to the actual character. People love Goku from Z because he has a character arc and a story that is fulfilled and well written. In fact, his fatherhood and adulthood is a part of his character. He is a father to Gohan, a flawed one but what can you expect considering his alien heritage and the situations he's put in? Most importantly, once given the chance he waits for 10 whole years to meet a being he created to nurture and train him like he should. That being the situation with Uub.
Plus there's more with Goku than just Gohan in the beginning of Z, like him with Gohan in the Namek arc, the Cell arc, and ya know, the Buu arc. They have great moments together, those moments are just overshined by more important, narrative driven plot points.
Super introduction Beerus and Zeno literally goes against the main idea of Goku's character. Which would be to keep going and surpassing your limits, it's even a main theme stated by Roshi. It is cool seeing Goku get stronger to match them, but once he does, then what? I guess it's okay though, It's not to bad of a thing to introduce but depending on it's execution it could be really badly written.
Super Goku is by far dumber than Z Goku. He's always off guard, always ignorant and always naive. It's just traits that Goku had as a kid being applied to his adult self, the Ultra Instinct, especially in the manga is idiotic. He's already learned that type of training, his search for power is also stupid. Goku was never one who thought power was all one needed to succeed like he does against Jiren, the closest you can get is in the Boo and Cell arcs where Goku with not much time has to get the youth ready to battle of a earth threatening enemy. Sure he could do better, but with the time and pressure he had, he did all he could. Goku magically forgetting meditation is so, so stupid that it on it's own is nearly as dumb as any mistake Goku made in Z. How can he forget something so crucial and something he does often? It's also a good way to train yourself, and Goku does not just forget techniques like that..? Especially the way he criticized Vegeta for doing it, that makes it 100x more stupid.
Super Goku could never dream of having more depth than Z, I don't even have to say why, just go read the manga.
It's not that Super Goku should act the same as he did in Z, it's that Super Goku should be like how he was and be even better than he was in Z. He should be a competent fighter all the time, he should be a mature thinker when the situations get rough. Making mistakes is okay, he should do that to. But he shouldn't be so clueless and regressed most of the time. Now Super Goku does have a few good moments, but a few good moments is nothing compared to a fully fleshed out, well written character that the Goku in the original story is.
I'll give you this one though, in Super he does use lots of intelligent techniques, comparable to those in Z, maybe even better. But the afterimage is an outlier, he does that many times as a kid. But just some techniques aren't the whole character, and I can't excuse the many flaws in the depiction of Goku that is DBS Goku.
No, DBS Goku is not the same guy. He's an overly ignorant, sometime arrogant man child whom has some resemblance to the man that Z Goku was at times but doesn't hold up at all. And that's only concerning his actions and character traits. As a written character, built around a narrative, Super Goku is literally nothing compared to Goku from the original dragon ball manga.
Anyways cool video, I liked it and Rest well Toriyama.
I still wake up in cold sweats from krillin screaming help me😢
Awesome video, I also love super goku.
also, im so glad your using sonic and the black knights ost, that games get slept on so much
Damn right 😎
FINALLY BRUH SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME
😎
Thank you for this. The really terrible characterization of Goku in the original Z Dub rotted the brains of DB Fans, they all expect Goku to act like batman, rip all his opponents to shreds instantly, and talk like Z Broly all the time.
Somethings I'd like to comment on
- Goku letting his guard down was pretty justified in ROF, firstly he did do this with Frieza on Namek could actually sense the ki coming towards him while in ROF Goku was exhausted and got shot at by a laser beam (not ki) from someone who had barely any ki signal. He also had 0 reason to think someone like a Frieza solider could sneak up on him because he literally saw Frieza obliterate most of them by just transforming
- Goku forgetting the seal is more forgetful than stupid
- Goku "forgetting" meditation was actually a mistranslation that was fixed in the manga
Good Video overall, its nice to see a DB Yter who doesn't spew misinformation that brainrots DB Fans
Yeah man, I wanna present it straight
Watch Kai. Then you'll see why Super Goku is a lobotomization compared to Z Goku.
@@user-im1hu8ci3g already did. Goku in Z is still dumber than he is in Super
@@user-im1hu8ci3gwatch the series. Then you'll see why goku is dumb in certain instances in retrospect, and his stupidity peaks in z/kai
@user-im1hu8ci3g you need to rewatch Kai then.
Those nostalgia driven people are so annoying
I think there was someone from when Kai was new who said that the old Funi dub was more faithful to the manga than Kai.
Interesting...
23:24. did you really forgot about gero's legendary door?
lol
3:50 „i am a warrior, pure of heart, Awakend by fury“ gues hard
God it's so good
I completely agree that goku didn't have time to be goofy or stupid in Z so his dumbass moments in Z aren't too outlandish when you come off of Dragon Ball. DB Super Goku does get time to be goofy and stupid, but the issue is, in comparison to OG dragon ball goku is overly stupid way too much (not all the time, but too much)
I can somewhat agree with that. However, the tone of super as a whole is way different than Z so I believe it causes fans to cherry pick whatever they can to say that super goku is stupid
DBS was written and managed like shit, although yes some can be excused because regardless Toriyama did give some work. Not all of it can be hand waved
Goku has maybe 3 or 4 stupid moments in the manga of super (and 2 of them make alot of sense considering he doesnt have education past maybe first grade level from roshi.) I have only seen the ToP for the anime, but goku was smarter in the anime version of the ToP than he EVER was in Z, so idk where this "Goku was handled poorly in super" comes from, especially since goku was suppossed to be even dumber than he is, yet tactically goku is smarter than ever.
@@rednaxela5960 I think it mostly stems from the Goku Black Saga where Goku forgets important things like the Senzu Beans and the sealing tag for the Mafuba.
@@kbashley720cap written great
For the Buu saga, I genuinely put the blame on everyone who could have ended the saga earlier, especially since in Future Trunks’ timeline, he managed to kill Babbabi and Daurba before they unleashed Buu, so Buu saga could have been avoided if the Z fighters weren’t too busy messing around and being too damn cocky.
Hold up, let him cook..
😎
That's what I see people around the whole freaking media be saying, they're nostalgia of the old z dub and only watching super from clips made people hateful for dbs and their blind love for gt and dbz, also on the meditation part, that was a mistranslation bc he was surprised that vegeta of all people meditates
I agree that some people (and by some i mean 90% of the fandom) are nostalgia blinded
The old Z dub is bad. Kai is the best way to watch it.
Also Z Goku is better
Wasn't that an error in the Japanese sub as well or am I mistaken?
@@Jake_the_ladZ Goku and Super Goku are the same. Super Goku has just already gone through his Majin Buu saga character arc.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 Except one is naive and the other is damn near retarded unless he's fighting.
This is nice to hear and you have very good points!
I also find it funny how you have this absolute BEEF with Great Ape Vegeta in dragon ball sparking zero.
Thank you! And yes, I hate him
@superkamijacob You're welcome lol!
Goku is an absolute mastermind capable of coming up with endless ways to abuse gnomes or escape live of a married man
Brotha what 😭
One thing I disagree with you is that Goku is not a hero. He is not a super hero by any means but he often does things that goes against his own desires, making him a hero.
there is a good amount of mischaracterizations of Goku in Z rip
bruh.
Did you really need to bring up my 90s bills here.
That shit still hurts me to this day, specially my brother I was like barely conscious for when the Bills were good in the 90s.
Had to do it man
Wellp, he's got my sub.
I grew up on the old Toonami dub but I only really got into Z with Kai as an adult. I like Super Goku, or Toriyama's Goku a hell of a lot more than I like the old U.S. version. I think another reason why the goofy, carefree, bumpkin Goku is better is because he's different. Toriyama's Goku is great because he's flawed, because he isn't completely stoic all the time, because he's selfish at times, arrogant at others and prone to extreme carelessness. That's a much more interesting character than "I'm the light in the darkness, I am here to slay evil while Deftones plays in the background." Goku. It's also why I prefer Goku to Gohan in literally all cases, even though Gohan is equally misunderstood.
I think a lot of the contradictions even between dub/sub is because of how off-the-cuff Toriyama was about writing the manga, I think "idiot Goku" is a core part of what makes Dragon Ball so special.
That's not to say I don't like the "totally badass warrior guy" version of the character, the old school dub oozed charm and I'll forever prefer the Falcouner score.
Excellent video.
Well said!
Completely agree with your thesis, and that characterization is why the serious moments in Super hit so much harder.
Thank you. So many people don’t understand goku as a character and this video needed to be made
you cant argue with dbz fans they dont even watch the show they just watch edits on the internet
Perhaps, but I'll still give a crack at it
The problem with the buu saga was the fact that Goku's character arc was done spanning across OG dragon ball to the cell saga.
Toriyama wanted Gohan to become the new protagonist but when he realized it was hard to deliver a good story with Gohan as the protagonist due to him being used to write characters like Goku he decided to bring back Goku. But due to his character arc being finished they were forced to butcher it in the buu saga with the only reason he was there was simply because they just thought they couldn't write a good story around another character.
As for super. People didn't dislike Goku cause he wasn't a superhero like he was in Z. They disliked him because he was absolutely stupid. In Z and even in OG dragon ball Goku learned that fighting wasn't all about training the body and learned the importance of meditation. But in Super he litteraly doesn't even remember what meditation is and calls it useless even though in the previous series he explained why meditation was so important. And even though we see Goku and Chi-Chi kiss multiple times throughout the series he says in super that he never kissed before as he didn't know what it was. Yes they wanted to make him goofy but goofy does not equal dumb.
They could've made him have a childish personality and make him goofy but they could've kept him smart.
Plus critizing Goku for not finishing off Majin Buu when he had the chance is pretty dumb when you also hear super goku state that if he had a senzu bean and went blue he could defeat infinite Zamasu which means he could've easly dealt with Goku Black.
And he forgot the jar to trap Zamasu in using the evil containment wave.
Which yes justifies him being dumber simply because he absolutely forget everything that he built up and learned throughout Z.
Sure super goku is still battle smart and still maintains some battle IQ. But in terms of his normal IQ in everyday life and while training he lacks most braincells which wasn't the case in Z.
Super Goku is not better than Z Goku in every way.
They are two completely diffrent adaptations of the character.
Z Goku shows Goku as this superhero.
Super Goku shows him as a dumb goofy selfish fighter who accidently does the right thing.
Kai Goku shows him kind of as a superhero but at the same time also a selfish fighter who accidently does the right thing.
In the end it depends on the opinion of the viewer wether they like the goof or the hero.
Personally I like Goku from Kai more than any other but I did love the other adaptations from super and Z.
But in the end the only reason Goku was a the protagonist in the buu saga and super was because Toriyama didn't find a way on how to make Gohan become the protagonist.
And to make Goku stay interesting they erased his character arc making him the lovable goof from the og series again. Making him as dumb too.
Point being super kind of destroyed all of the character arcs that were shown in Z. Removing Goku's character arc, Vegeta's character arc and even Gohan's. GT kept more to the character arcs than super did.
So I think we can all agree that GT is therefore the best dragon ball anime.....
Joking obviously.
It all depends on opinion on who you liked more and what you liked more.
We definitely cannot all agree on that lmfao what an insane take
@@ThomasHoughton-dj5eiBest to articulate your point properly
Gold medal 🥇 man you actually read the manga
im convinced that some of the lower comments didnt even finish watching the vid and went straight to commenting lol.
also people do need to realize you can like one thing without bringing or shitting on another
Fr man 😭
That’s exactly what we’re doing we’re just stating our opinions and how we see things. We don’t have to agree to everything that this guy says in the video like your doing
I Agree with your statement
You're as dumb as dbs Goku then
😎
@@superkamijacob yup
Agreed dude, they ate blinded by nostalgia
You spittin in this one gang
💯
As a guy who got into Dragon Ball through my uncle’s hand me down manga, I appreciate you having actually seen the series
Of course 😎
goten and the juicebox caught me offguard lmao
🤣 u can also find him peaking behind me at some point
@@superkamijacob lmao i js found it
LET THIS MAN COOK. THESE DBZ GOKU GLAZERS DELUSIONAL ASF🗣️
Read the description. Lemme hear you out and watch this whole video before editing this comment with my thoughts if you care.
Edit: aye ngl I don’t got time for this LMAO. So far though this video is a pretty good thought piece
Fair enough but thank u 😭
Watch the rest of it. It's terrible
🤣
I heard of a theory saying that goku actually kinda went insane during his time in the afterlife explaining his odd behaviours in the buu arc and super. And the fact that he lost any sense time or general meaning to life and treats everything as if it won't have any impactful consequences.
Personally, I Enjoy the Z Movie Version or Daima Goku(If we even count Daima.) but this is definitely an Eye-Opener
Still waiting on Daima to come out fully personally
Okay that’s good, you meant super anime compared to Z anime, I thought you didn’t understand goku’s character
But I don’t see super goku as better than original goku only because super goku is just Z goku’s character being consistent. Tho his development regresses in super and I have to wait till tournament of power until we get the same thing in the buu saga (spirit bomb moment), goku being so happy and dumb is only because of his development in buu saga
Agreed. But people wanna make the arguement specifically for super goku, so I felt it was worth clarifying
9:24 THE JUICEBOX😭
Damn right ✅️
Ppl will see a z goku right, the same z goku that mostly on edge the whole series due to constant threats to his FAMILY AND FRIENDS but when they see super goku who had nothing to worry about for years and the moment he starts acting dumb and innocent and goofy(which is literally his character btw) they will say z goku is better like super goku at t.o.p wasnt ready to kill jiren for trying to hurt his friends. Yall saw how mad he got when he did that "YOUR GONNA PAY!!" Z Goku and Super Goku are the same thing, they are just taking it out of context, thats like comparing a guy with a good life and a loving family to Guts. Also gonna add that whenever Z goku isnt on edge he starts acting dumb or goofy, take for example when janemba was terrorizing the verse, goku just stuck out his tongue. Or Goku literally smiling infront of the enemy(Majin Buu, Cell) Z goku and super goku are the same person, Z goku was just more serious if not just as serious as super goku bc he had better things to worry about, if i was able to rest for 6 to 7 years without villians terrorizing me, my friends and my family and the planet i would be relaxed too.
Exactly
Z Goku was a young adult on a place where being effortlessly planetary was the biggest threat on the universe
Super Goku is a man in his 40's who isn't suprised at galaxy busters and just tries to have fun even when he is aware of how much things are stacked against him
2:43 Are you deadass? His eyebrows are slanted to give off a regretful expression as opposed to the anime's stern look.
The caption doesn't help me tell if you're joking or not
People who say goku in super is dumb then compare goku from Z to super is jut so dumb 😭
Goku in Z dose not have a lot of options like he dose in super that’s why he’s more relaxed he knows if he goes down then someone will take his place like vegeta. And goku in Z dose not have that option because he is the only person that’s strong enough to save the day like what we see in the Frieza saga and especially the Buu saga. This is very explicit in the Buu saga because one goku was always the strongest hero in that saga but when Gohan had gotten his ultimate form he surpassed Goku during that short time frame. But when he got absorbed Goku got put back on the back burner so he had no choice but to act and take things not a serious as he dose in super all because he isn’t in that life or die situation majority of the time in super. People just love it when goku is all serious and “Katarot” mode but that’s not who he is. He’s not or has ever been the sharpest tool in the shed but he makes up for it in many ways. People just hate super Goku because they don’t understand him as a character.
For the reason why goku did not use ssj3 on vegeta was because he was going to use his time up to much
Ssj3 Goku could one shot vegeta
Still a dumbass decision given that the longer he prolonged the fight, the more likely buu would be revived
@@superkamijacob Saiyans are not known for being intellectually smart. Gohan and Trunks are outliers due to being half human. The entire character trait of Saiyans is loving to beat the tar out of each other no matter the situation.
@@onekidgamer577pure speculation only one thing is certain he would have used up his time remaining.
I believe that daima arc effect goku his personality so he becomes more happy in dbz super 👌
Listen, guys, would Thukuna really go as easy on the Main cast squadron if his technique got forfeited? Same with cell, better give the boi some time to wind up, usually worked for Gohan.
Too bad his literal father mistaken him getting fed up with someone's shit and kicking their ass afterwards for love for fighting and warming up.
1:04 PEAK SONG CHOICE
😎
Omg I found a SMART DRAGON BALL FAN!!!!!
🧠
In the end no matter what happens...no matter what you or me, or literally ANYONE else that did research says....the old saying will always stand for most of the other "fans"
"Dont mess with us Dragon Ball fans, we havent watched our own show"
Perhaps that's true, but im still gonna try
@@superkamijacob good luck 👍
As much as I hate to admit it, you have valid points.
I just don't like some of the jokes that make goku seem dumb
(mainly the kissing thing)
That was a translation error, Goku in the Sub was commenting on Trunks mama birding Mai and Vegeta thought that Goku was referring to a kiss, leaving Goku thoroughly confused, I mean we literally see him kiss Chi Chi in the forehead in the anime.
Ay ill take it
@ Nice vid btw, it’s really disappointing how people still hate on Goku’s character.
Thank u :)
Goku has always been dumb(to a degree) But not where fighting is concerned.
Goku is overhated
And in this video he is over glazed
Imo Z goku and super goku are both the same
The thing that makes a character good for me is when they have flaws and arent perfect (unless theyre cell)
And thats probably why i love konosuba
Konosuba is actually so goated
@superkamijacob it really is and i hate the fact that its classed as a gooner anime 😭
Unfortunately the third season had Kazuma acting a little too wild 😭
GT Goku literally got kidnapped by criminals and we say, super Goku dumb 😩
Hang on, I remember Bulma suggesting *using the Dragon Balls to figure out where Gero was.* I don't think she would've suggested that if she knew where he lived.
That's correct, I got that part wrong
Hell you can even bring up that one moment in the manga when Spopovich was beating up Videl and Gohan was angry about it.
In the manga Goku tells Gohan: "Calm down Gohan! Its not like shes gonna die!" With a surprised expression rather than the serious one he had in the manga.
Compared to the "Hey no stop, just calm down, dont do it Gohan. Youre not going out there." With a more serious expression.
GOKU"S ULTIMATE FANTASY: A STRONG WARRIOR SUDDENLY APPEARS WHO'RE CRAZY STRONG AND WISH TO CHALLENGE THE STRONGEST WARRIOR ON EARTH WITHOUT DAMAGING THE PLANET AND HURTING OTHER LIVING BEINGS
Bro's wet dream for sure!!!!!
☠️
They called me a fool... they called me a bunch of stuff because *i know how to read my favorite series.*
1st: people never rewatched Z again aftee rewatching Super. Making alot of their takes based on what they remember.
2: Most of fans who say Z wa serious are ENG watchers. That shit changed the entire image of goku. Japanese Z goku = Super goku
Goku didn't use ssj3 against vegeta for some reasons
Inverse reasons:
-Goku didn't wanted to shatter vegeta's pride by one-shotting him
-the energy that would be released would prob be enough to awaken buu anyway
Outverse reasons:
-ssj3 didn't existed yet
It’s pretty sad that people can’t tell the difference Between Goku’s actual IQ and Comic relief
Goku giving cell a sensu bean isn’t that dumb when you take into account that every villian Goku has fought made the planet a hostage when they got backed into a corner which is what cell ends up doing.
11:43 THE DRNK MENTIONED!!!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯🍺🍻🍻🍷🍷🍸🍸🍹🍹🥂🥂🍾🥃🍶☕️🍵🧉🥛🧃🫖🧊🧊🧊
8:05 oh, so you aware of the whole "Ridiculously strong, on a whole other level" delema
Oh yeah 🤣
Na Super Goku is so out of character. Like the man is 50 still acting like a fish out of water as if it’s chapter 1 of the manga.
Even GT got Goku’s silliness and seriousness more balanced than Super did. Nice try tho.
*(This is me just rambling, ignore if you want to)* Kinda unrelated, but my Favorite itteration of Goku has to be the Kai dub Goku. Idk, he just feels like a perfect blend of the heroism of OG Dub (One i never grew up with), and the fun loving, carefree version he is in Super.
I've already know GT is the sequel to the og dub, while Super is the sequel to Kai with how Goku acts, but i just like how Kai Goku's a mix of the two.
Couldn't agree more
I agree super has some great goku moments and he can be light hearted the issues I have with super goku is his regression in training he mastered years ago like not knowing what meditation was stuff like that makes him feel stupid and goku was never an idiot he sometimes made easily avoidable mistakes and he grew up away from society so it took him a while to get adjusted to regular things like cars planes what a girl is etc but he was mostly normal and even had an ok education by z (master roshi taught maths and english along with martial arts in dragonball) so goku was never dumb just naive and is a master martial artist and doesnt need to be told by vegeta of all people what meditation is I mean goku on namek got to the point he could even read minds and dig holes in the ground with a thought so he clearly had mastery over his mind and soul atleast to some degree. sorry for my rant
TLDR Goku not dumb and I dont like how super makes him regress in things he mastered years ago like he never learnt it
love him or hate him he's spitting straight facts
It's funny how he begins to make these decisions after turning into a super saiyan for the first time. Like its as if that form messed with his head or something. I know he did stupid stuff before, but something as stupid as giving a senzu bean to someone who's trying to kill his own son?! Super saiyan done something to him fr😂
Honestly I think it sped up that bump on his head
I think it mostly has to do with what Goku feels is right, wrong and fair, but predominantly not understanding his son.
Just look at the 23rd Budokai to see Goku wanting the fight to be a fair one one one despite the fact that the world would be doomed if Piccolo wasn't defeated.
It's pretty much always been about Goku's nature and nurture.
Dragon Ball Super Fans VS Dragon Ball Z Fans War?
Im siding with DBS i like both but reason i chose DBS is because DBZ fans often view DBS as disappointment and us DBS fans are here to prove them wrong
I still think DBS Goku sucks, but the community doesn't have good arguments against him. He's a shitty protagonist but people focus way too much on the "dumb" thing and don't really see how the two characters are sold differently and one is just incapable of selling anything.
Basically, DBS is just if the Goku vs. Majin Vegeta fight was the whole show, except if you knew that Goku had SSj3 in his back pocket when you first watched it, and he has no real in-universe reason to not pull it out.
For most of the anime, he's written around his strongest power that has literally no downsides (SSJ blue), which means he has no actual reason to not be in Blue unless he's fucking around, so in fights like against Kale and Caulifla most of his dialogue is "wow! i can't wait to only NOW get serious!", like it didn't grow stale the first fourty times he said this.
Seriously, if I wanna draw a comparison, I'm gonna ignore the bigger fights and I'm gonna say to re-watch his fight against Jeice and Burter, and compare the dialogue and his actions in that fight against DBS Goku's fight against Kale and Caulifla. Cause if DBS Goku was fighting against Jeice and Burter, he'd have ran even with them in Base form and then said "wow! you're really strong! i'm gonna go even further beyond!" and then he'd go kaioken x4 or something.
Would that be as impactful as how that fight actually went?
When Goku isn't saying the same line about "Hi! I'm Goku and I love training!", and over-using Dragon Ball tropes, then it means the show is usually using cringe-ass anime protagonist tropes.
Imagine if Saiyan Saga Goku got a random powerboost against Vegeta because he had a flashback to all of his friends. Wouldn't that be fucking lame? Cause he did that against Jiren.
Imagine if Namek Saga Goku saw Krillin die and his dialogue was "Now I'm mad! I'm really REALLY mad!!!!", and he just went Kaioken x30 with no downsides. Because that's actual dialogue against Zamasu.
Imagine if Cell Saga Goku saw Cell's regeneration, and instead of planning around it, he said "I don't give a DAMN about your regeneration!". Because this is also actual dialogue he had against Zamasu's immortality, and he follows this up with the fucking useless Ki-spam.
Is this your goat??? This ain't my goat. I see two different people.
Back to SSJ Blue, Goku doesn't pull it ou because it's literally impossible to make it into an interesting solution to the problems, so even when he DOES pull it out, he's going to job. So he's either fucking around, or he's being completely useless.
The show should absolutely be careful about how Goku putting his strongest forms in his back pocket can kill tension. It's something that needs to be written around carefully, and the DBS anime just does not do it. In fact, it's SO unwilling to care about tension that in the only sagas where they have a real villain (res F and Future Trunks sagas), the conflict is solved by Goku just calling in a bigger god than the opponent.
You could cut out all of the fights in the series after BOG until the TOP, because literally NONE of them matter. Universe 6 had no stakes (Goku just walked out), Res F's fight didn't matter because the conflict was solved by Whis's time bullshittery, and GB Saga had Goku pull out a fucking win button to call the big guy upstairs.
This show's more about prayer than it is about fighting, considering all the conflicts were solved by Goku calling a god.
Even Blue Kaioken's downsides don't matter, because its downsides don't actually affect the fight. In the original manga, Goku's kaioken x4 and kaioken x20 overtax his body and he becomes super weak and basically useless after he uses them, and they have an actual impact on the flow of the fight. In DBS it ruins his casual life, but the fight doesn't get impacted because the fight doesn't matter.
This isn't helped at all by the fact that the show is trying to sell us on the power of god ki, yet the two plots that focus on bringing in the multiverses to challenge the MCs literally only have one character who actually uses god ki. And even then, Toppo gets sidelined for his teammate who does NOT have god-ki anyways.
Not all of these writing issues are Goku's fault, it's the fault of a lot of different things that make literally everything in the DBS anime flaccid and, dare I say, dickless. Yknow, aside from BOG, the TOP (which is only MOSTLY cringe and not ENTIRELY cringe), and everything after the TOP.
It's a shame the anime ended immediately after they gave Goku a form that allowed him to actually be written into interesting scenarios again, but at least the manga does handle his character much better, if nothing else because they cared to give SSJ Blue okay reason to not be used 24/7. But it's a shame it has to follow the flaccid plot of the anime for a long time.
I'd go as far as to say that the manga enhances his character even more by the Moro arc, as it actually forces him to earnestly become the hero he often pretended to be. Giving him rare moments of progression. Vegeta, especially (best character in Super).
Super Goku claims to not understand what a kiss is (Zamasu arc when he sees trunks and mai, and has a conversation with vegeta), couldn't tell when fighting monaka that it was just a costume, lost tons of fighting experience to make training under whis seem relevant, forgot what meditation is, cant understand basic social queues to a way more extreme extent than in z, etc etc. Hes gotten so one dimensional that when gohan, his son that hes gone through so much with, tells him that hes having a kid he stares blankly and says some stupid line about food and laughs.
But this issue isn't exclusive to goku, it never was. Most characters in the cast of dragonball have experienced an overexaggeration of their personalities despite any character development they got in Z. Its not like goku was never stupid at any point in z, but now thats ALL he is, an airhead.
I hate that kiss comparison so much 🤦 goku dose NOT know what mamma birding a sensu bean is. And this is the same guy who thought marriage was a food btw. Your just nip picking super gokus air headedness while goku in Z was just as dumb. And when was it the last time goku has ever seen vegeta meditate? Can u explain the whole whis thing again like what do you mean he lost a lot of experience
@Purple_23184
In that kiss scene, vegeta straight up asks goku if hes ever kissed someone. He didn't ask if he's ever fed someone with his mouth, he asked if he's ever kissed anyone. Goku's response is "No, people do that?". Goku knows ATLEAST three married couples and IS married, and doesn't have any idea what a kiss is? Also the whole not knowing what marriage is back in OG dragon ball is excusable because he's still adjusting to society and theres no one in his life that would be married unlike a normal person raised in civilization.
@ Yeah but still it’s Goku we are talking about and it’s not excusable Goku was NEVER smart in OG, Z, GT or Super y’all acting like he was ever smart period? Goku was serious in Z because they always had to stress over the fact the earth was always in danger or Goku was just straight up dead. In Super Goku is serious but not like he was in Z because everyone was pretty much dependable at that point in time like Vegeta
You underestimate how bad the meditation scene really is because in comparison to DBZ goku sees Vageta and knows whether he's meditating or not when he is on the rock, and the Vageta scene in Z is more important than him just being arrogant, its telling Vageta to not overwork one's muscles when he was going into the chamber again which now in the scene which is telling Goku not to do, not to mention his db training. There is a far better barbaric strong monster right next to them ahem BROLY who can learn so much more from this than the guy who we saw multiple times do this. I also dislike super gokus mannerisms like the kiss thing when he literally kissed Chichi in Z or the way he talks like a 3-year-old and feels like he doesn't know what's happening. Like his line where he's training with krillian in Super and gets annoyed when he's restricted and bumbed out he cant transform and I feel like Z Goku or I guess Goku in general would enjoy a challenge like that. I will give you this he does have a smart scene like him convincing Freiza to join the tournament very good smart Goku scene there. Overall I do agree that Goku has always been prideful of his strength and I do like that of him but his mannerisms are annoying to me in super. This is a pretty good video and argument for Super Goku. I definitely disagree with the bad father argument that everyone gives Goku since he has repeatedly shown to care for his sons (ahem buu saga sucks). The Buu saga is very very flawed compared to the rest of the saga and is a downward spiral when looking at it. Senzu Bean is less bad than people think since he was technically right Gohan completely shits on cell and he makes up for it by sacrificing himself. Another stupid super Goku scene is literally in the manga where he gets UI by remembering he is a martial artist and another far worse Senzu Bean scene.
I think Goku's getting dumber as he gets older.
Probably because of the brain injury he had when he was a child. Because it's getting worse.
☠️
Honestly the drink should just eat the karrot and become the main dish frfr no cap 💯
Agreed
Super goku isn't the same goku to me. Just a mascot at that point. Other than the movies.
Didn’t super goku risk all the universes from being erased all because he wanted to fight strong fighters 💀
Goku giving Cell a Senzu Bean isn’t really the dumbest move he made in this arc, it was not making more plans and relying completely on only one. The Senzu Bean situation made sense, if Gohan managed to prove himself a threat against a weaker Cell, then he likely wouldn’t care to know about what his foe’s full potential looked like (in short, wether Cell would kill Gohan or not in a weakened state was an unknown and not worth finding out). As for Goku’s plan, if Gohan failed, then everyone on earth dies and the universe is Cell’s playground. Goku could have trained more until unlocking the same power his son showed off (he had a whole week, plenty of time to train a while in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and then spend time working on the Gohan plan by spending time showing him what he could lose) and/or he could have learned the Mafuba, but instead he risked everyone’s lives on this one plan.
This conflict is not exclusive of the English version, the same happens in the latin American version which is an adaptation from the original source and people tend to say things like he’s more mature and serious in Z than Super, even saying he is like a child but they ignore the way Toriyama even makes his stories, saying that Super is less serious and with an absurd humor when you have the manga of Dr. Slump from the same author which most recurring joke is Arale using a stick with poo to mess with people.
Also Goku didn’t finished Majin Buu because he said it wasn’t his responsibility since he doesn’t belong to the world of the living and doing it would cause someone worse could appear
And this is why adult Goku in original dragon ball is superior
-silly
-high battle iq
-smart
-lets piccolo leave because he knows he's good (also kami would die but whatava)
i mean, im split on this. comparing z and kai doesnt really work for me because how goku was when he was a kid, sure he never set out to be a hero, but when injustice and disaster struck around him he couldnt turn a blind eye. hes not pure of heart in the sense he just donsnt think sneaky or evil thoughts, he wants to see the world better and happier too. goku not seeming as mad about krillin's death in z is no fault of translation, its just how the acting is done and the emphasis on certain undertones, they are, almost 100% the same scene.
what about gokus speech? it is VERY within goku's nature to intimidate and get in the heads of opponents and even have a heroic flare at times, it happened alot in og dragon ball even if it was subtle, while going for the hero act dosnt sell his blind rage nearly as well it certainly works.
kai is also great!! but falls a little short in the undertone of goku's feelings about saving others, at times it goes a little far in the not a hero direction and makes goku seem like a snarky halfwit with no consideration for others, and thats just never been goku, even when hes apathetic towards the going ons and lives of others he's happy to step in for their protection
i dont want goku to be superman, but he also dosnt have to be a pro boxer yk? hes in it for the love of the game, but cares for something bigger deep down. in a lot of ways goku is just a less extreme, underground (and actually powerful) mr. Satan. when it came down to it he went to fight majin buu without any camera crew or expectation of recognition.
my conclusion is that z and kai focused on very different parts of goku's character for a different show tone. one is a story about saving the world long enough for someone to pick up his duty, having fun along the way pushing higher and higher. and the other is a fighter so in love with the art he cant wait for the next biggest threat, but deep down having a feeling of duty to the defenseless, he loves it so much he wants his son and found family to be as powerful as him and know the joys of climbing higher, pushing it too hard on a gohan that isnt a fighter like him. both very good stories for very good purposes. thats why i love this one fan edit that mashes the two together in a very coherent way, i cant think of what its called though
RedHeadHenry will NOT like this
Who
@@superkamijacob hes a sprite animator that really hates super goku(or super as whole)even if his fans give reasons not to
Let them have their opinions, I got mine after all
He’s not hated enough.
9:16 JUICEBOX REFERENCED!!!!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯🧃🧃🧃🧃
W vid bro...Goku is just dumb in general...but he also a Smart ass sometimes💀😭🙏
Why thank u
@superkamijacob ur more than welcome...keep up the awesome work
damn bro u coocked in this vid 🔥
Thank u!