Watchmen 2019 Review: Condescension and Exploitation
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2023
- I talk about one of the most frustrating shows I've seen in a long time. One that is so up its own butt that it couldn't tell the difference between a fart and a cough.
Music Used:
Black River Killer- Blitzen Trapper
Save Room Theme- Resident Evil 7 OST
When Good Heists Go Bad- Saints Row the Third OST
Attack of the Sand Griffins- Prince of Persia The Sands of Time OST
Egyptian Theme- Age of Mythology OST
Come Get Sum- Rising Storm 2 OST
True- Silent Hill 2 OST
Betrayal- Silent Hill 2 OST
Let's Pretend 1 & 2- Saints Row the Third OST
A World of Madness- Silent Hill 2 OST
Float Up From Dream- Silent Hill 3 OST
Johnny Silverhand's Theme (Cello Version)- Cyberpunk 2077 OST
Ops 2- System Shock 2 OST
Engineering- System Shock 2 OST
Never Forgive Me, Never Forget Me- Silent Hill 3 OST
Warp Traveler- Darktide OST
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The Saul Goodman voice is AI. Created through Elevenlabs.
I'm genuinely frightened that it needed clarification. Our cyberpunk dystopia great....
Yea I was just about to ask why Odenkirk would be talking about these things. I like the guy, but I have a feeling he wouldn't be venturing into race waters, saying the things he's saying here. It's pretty good, the AI. I am also terrified.
honestly I thought it was real on the belief that maybe he just really liked the graphic novel. Then he said "Loli will talk about that later" and the bamboozlement was made clear lol
Not going to lie, 15mins in and I had to google if Bob did a ted talk on Snyder's one good movie and how it was transformative in the best ways
I am not embarrassed to admit that 15 minutes in, I googled "Bob Odenkirk discussing Watchmen" thinking I had missed something awesome as well.
damn hahhaa
Alan Moore literally named a character Rorschach and then got pissed that people had different interpretations of his character.
Fucking lmao
He spins a good yarn but he is a muppet
Lefty loons be like that. Druckman is no different
Then he goes on to complain about the most prevalent interpretations despite his writing pushing viewers to that interpretation. Why should I care that Rorshach is some overzealous wacko when his obsessions are the ONLY thing that even attempt to stop Veidt's plan?
It's almost like Rorschach's inherent hypocrisy is integral to his character or something.
Mfs be like “deconstruct the superhero genre”
My brother in Christ
Megamind
Or The Incredibles.
@@GhostLink92 Only the first one, though.
The Tick
You can make the argument Megamind is actually a reconstruction.
Deconstruct the villain genre in a literal way.@@schwarzerritter5724
"Ditko! I've already depicted your character as a soyjak and me as the chad!" - Alan Moore
He and his friends also made an entire "documentary" about him where they just sat around and mocked him for a couple of hours.
Be pretty ironic if someone did the same to him.
He won tho cause his comic eclipsed ditko in popularity
@cyrusr2209
>Eclipsed the co-creator of Spiderman in popularity, by making a parody character that is more popular than the character he's based on.
My sides are gone.
@@dio2076 Bunch of overrated hacks.
@@cyrusr2209 He would've "won" if Rorschach became popular because of Moore's artistic intent instead of in spite of it.
And yes, Peter Parker was largely based on Ditko himself, so this point is moot anyway.
Sorry but a character that kills a child molester/murderer because he knows the guy is just going to be cycled in and out of the prison system, will never be a bad guy to me
Yeah what did Moore expect fans who do when they saw Rorschach punish a monster like that.
you are sick.
@@NostalgiNordenfor wanting to kill pedo’s?
But he lets a woman get raped
I mean i feel like the reason for that is because he was apprehended by a vigilante lol. Rorschach is kinda solving a problem that only exists because he's doing vigilante work
That bleach line is so iconic, they really thought they cooked
They DID cook.
With "washed" chicken.
Confiscate their stove
CHIRP
Get them off the grill.
Stop talking like a ghettotard.
The way Alan Moore wrote Rorschach reminds of how the director of Elite Squad (the brazilian film) wanted to portray the main character as a psycho abusive policeman, but the audience ended up loving him, because he... beats the shit out of favela cartel leaders, who kill and robs people like the audience. Both Alan Moore and Padilha are very talented individuals but they live in a bubble, and accidentaly delievered beloved characters unintentionally.
I just think it's telling that Rorschach was supposed to be disliked for... Murdering pedophiles and serial killers, standing against a genocidal madman, and dying for what he thought was right, despite all his character flaws?
It still baffles me that movie director and main actor are commies. That is one of the most based movies ever made, how much commie brain rot it takes to watch that and think Captain Nascimento is the bad guy? The second movie tackles the problem of political corruption, in a country with over 30 parties, most being shades of red and the most corrupt of all being the labor party. Some even say the labor party's "petrolão" was the biggest corruption scam in history.
Granted by the end of Elite Squad 2 he was fighting corrupt cops and actively working with his ex-wife’s leftist BF to topple corruption in the Brazilian government
Guess that adage "some of thebest things come out of accidents and mistakes" rings as loud as a county bell for this picture
@@getthegoons also, really gives you a look into Alan Moore's soul if he'd considered that was something to be derided and balked at and insulted or dismissed
Alan Moore tries to make a parody of Steve Ditko and ends up making him the most popular character in the story.
Task successfully failed?
Even when they mock us they fail spectacularly
Steve ditko is based
Tried to make him a vicious sociopath but ended up making him the most heroic of the main cast by refusing to follow through on Ozymandias' plan.
Moore kinda messed up there if he was trying to argue heroes keeping the truth behind the deaths of millions a secret was a good thing.
When you try to make a masked psychopath vigilante and accidentally create batman.
The ironic thing is, come one year later and this show wouldn’t have been made because ACAB was at its peak
Ugh acab
I guess they just would have written it so that the cops were the villains and the terrorists were the good guys
Dude yall have a serious hard on for anything that speaks out on the system built by white folk (on the back of slaves) for white folks convenience and comfort
Yeah that’s the reason why people can do controversial stuff online complaining about the TV show movie create toxicity inside the fandom in real life terrorism yeah that’s the reason why people can do controversial stuff online complaining about the TV show movie create toxicity inside the fandom in real life terrorism.
I don't think you watched the show. It's not pro police.
The unnecessary acronym he used, ACAB, means 'all cops are bastards'
"I have a nose for white supremacy and he smells like bleach". Never has a one-liner so perfectly encapsulated the mental illness of the writers while warning everyone to not watch it by being in the trailer.
When a line is so mind numbingly stupid that you're nearly left speechless.
@@frug5629Oh no question. It’s the dumbest one liner ever. Even worse, I figured that was gonna be a running gag, like her catchphrase.
“Know what I smell?”
“Please don’t say the line.”
“Buh-!”
“Stop, please.”
“Leach!”
*she wriggles her eyebrows at the camera while canned laughter plays in the background*
The juiciest line ever uttered in TV history.
Im not even anti-BLM/woke or whatever we're calling that branch of progressive leftism - but god damn you can feel the adolescent nature of the movement in lines like this from most media around that time.
They're trying to get some kind of insult to stick and it comes off as made of jargon from movies set in the future. False and has the energy of an old person trying to seem cool.
So Damon Lindeloff is a hack. I've never seen Lost, but he butchered Prometheus.
I can't believe Saul Goodman is so well-versed in the Tulsa race riots. Bravo, Vince!
29:11 it’s cos he was representing one of the NAACP members mentioned in the article ;)
Who cares? Black people suck
So what your telling me is that the crazy communist wizard that worships Voldemort unintentionally made rorschach based, that’s neat.😺
Just goes to show that in a general sense, the left views good as evil, and evil as good.
Indeed
Also he's an anarchist, that's the reason he made Alexander Veidt, the main villain, a Communist.
I think the reason Rorschach became so popular is because 1) his mask is cool & 2) back in the 80s Alan Moore was a good enough writer that he knew to make his characters interesting even if he didn't like them. Rorschach isn't just a cartoon strawman who gets off at the thought violating civil rights. He's a flawed, traumatized person who thinks he's doing the right thing. That's why Watchmen is so popular and stayed popular as long as it has.
I think the main reason Rorschach is the most popular character of the story is because he is the only character who holds true to his principles. The only character who never compromises.
Frankly, I think Alan's recent quotes about Rorschach is historical revisionism. I think Moore is a loon but he's not an incompetent writer. I refuse to believe he screwed up making a character that represents everything he reportedly despises into such a sympathetic character. I think he started getting backlash by his ancap peers and started this story about how Rorschach's positive reception was unintended.
@@PepsiMan666 I think he always intended for Rorschach to be wrong, but he left it open for the reader to decide if they agreed. Alan Moore used to do that with stories like V for Vendetta which he said it was up to the reader to decide whether or not V was right.
Rorschach is the best, no compromise.
I agree and there are scenes in the comic that support this. The biggest one being the interactions Rorschach has with the Psychiatrist while he is in prison. The psychiatrist is first shown as a self centered guy who only wants to interview Rorschach to further his own career instead of actually helping him. However, after listening to Rorschach, the psychiatrist is shown to become more sympathetic to others to the point where he is trying to help strangers before the squid attack.
The second instance is where Rorschach returns to his apartment to get his costume and ends up confronting the lady who was lying about him on the news. Instead of dispensing "Justice" as an unhinged extremists would have, he instead walks away and lets the issue go. That was a moment of self restraint that a character who was not suppose to be a hero would not have done. So ya, Alan Moore is just trying to do some political backtracking. @@PepsiMan666
Rorschach is more demonized in this show than Ozymandias.
Which is fucking baffling.
I’m still amazed that of all the character to get a right leaning cult it wasn’t somebody like the comedian
thats because you have a decent head on your shoulders and dont view the world like Alan Moore views the world. His intent from the beginning was Rorschach was the villain, Ozy was the hero.
Is he? From what I saw in this video, the only thing about Rorshach is that racists like him. It doesn't seem to be about him at all. Unless the show says something specific?
No one is supposed to be the hero, he knows ozzy is a bastard but he cant help but hate rorscharch more because hes Alan moore and rorscharch is far-right
I'll never forget being on the hellsite formerly known as Twitter, and someone saying that they hated the original Watchmen because "it's racist" and saying how much they liked this show.
Trust me guys, once you leave that site, you will genuinely start to feel better about life and other people. We humans are not meant to be subjected to such ... paste-eating opinions in such a quantity for such a prolonged period of time.
I never joined in the first place. I spent some time on the site without an account, but it was pretty obvious that arguments there never convince anyone.
@@halcionjoy7David Chapelle said that Twitter isn't a real place. I think he's half right, I mean, many Twitter takes didn't age well.
Can confirm. My quality of life increased exponentially after having left that cesspool.
Stupidity from both SJWs and Anti-SJWs lead me to quit Twitter altogether, and I'm thankful for doing so!
Amen brother. Most, if not all "social" media is a blight to society.
“It’s so sad that Steve Jobs died of ligma.”
“Who the hell is Steve Jobs?”
“Ligma-balls”
Immediately disintegrates the shows Watchmen franchise:
NOOOOOO-
then everything start to be drained of its bitrate,
Also on a side note to the Rorsach stuff, I always took the final pages as a testament to his character. Even after he made a big deal out of how much he hated the people of the city and how he wouldn't save them, when the chips were down he decided to die for them. Personally I always took it as Rorsach being at least somewhat a good person behind all his misanthropy and trauma.
I think way too many people overlook the significance of Rorschach's confrontation with the prostitute mother late in the story. She's nothing like his own mother, and he sees that.
@@LevantineR1 Yeah, that was my take from that scene too. At first he saw her as being like his mother but the second he called her a whore and she said "Don't say that, my kids don't know" is when it was clear she wasn't. His mom did nothing to hide this fact from him, he has caught her and has had nightmares about it, meanwhile this mom did and was actually trying to protect her kids. I imagine that's why he leaves, he realizes the land lady isn't the type of person he assumed.
Rorsach didn't die for the people. He died beacuse he couldn't cope with reality. That's why he removes his mask dying as Walter J Kovacs, the crazy little man and not Rorsach the "uncomprmised" vigilante
@theunknownuser9609 he explicitly went out of his way to try to stop Ozy or at least make sure he was punished for what he did and that's why he was killed. It's not ignoring reality, it's taking a stance based on his morals.
@@jamesmcdonald1108and to get a bit more into what I think is the heart of the comment, if not wanting to just roll over and go along with Ozymandius' plan because he succeeded in the false attack and revealing the truth after the fact would just make all the death's "pointless" is being "unable to face reality" then yeah, I can see why he'd rather die then live in that reality.
I realized something a while ago. The actual contents of a source material is irrelevant; hollywood writers can turn anything into a ridiculous, convoluted soap opera. And they'll give it a nice injection of modern day propaganda for good measure.
Correct!
Rorschach was right.
100%
LORD willing, he was wrong an awful lot. But that doesn't mean he was wrong about being against Ozymandias and Manhattan.
Rorschach was right.
Wing
@@FookMi69same thing
@@FookMi69same thing
The villains following Rorschach is ironic when you learn that Alan Moore originally intended Rorschach as a critique of Randian Objectivist heroes like Mr. A, but the character ended up being the most traditionally heroic member of the entire cast.
But how
@@murderman8578 The writers of Watchmen 2019 made the villains followers of Rorschach because they were driven by the same political bias that Alan Moore had against the characters Rorschach was based on. They both tried making him a villain, yet the actual text made him the opposite. They both tried subverting the character from opposite directions and ended up with the exact same result.
@@murderman8578Because objectivism focuses very heavily on morality and what is good and evil and that both should be treated as they deserve to be. It's a pretty karmic ideology so they'd have no problem with cops doing their jobs and arresting criminals even if they agreed with them. Basically it's just down to them trying to make Rorschach look bad.
@@mariokarter13 Based on what I watched of this video, this show doesn't make him the villain, but makes his followers the villains.
@@DagenspearThey tried spinning that with a follow up interview after the series ended, but the show has tried painting him as an objective bad guy. The Liberal Tears line wasn’t the worst thing they added to his journal
Saying you're an Anarcho-Communist is like saying you're a meat eating vegan.
Yeah I hate the government, so I adhere to a system that requires strict governing over wealth.
Lol thank you.
I've tried bringing this up and there are always endless excuses
Fuck me I should have known the channel called "AlmightyLoli" was gonna be filled with shit takes. 😮💨
Listen, try learning about Communism from actual Communists.
Communism is, based on my base knowledge of Marx, the aspirational "end goal". The end goal being a STATELESS society. By definition, Anarchist.
What you're talking about is just a Socialist state, or more accurately, "State Capitalist".
The whole point of Communism is for the WORKERS to own the means of production.
Not private individuals or corporations. And not governments.
And even your perception of the "tyranny" of Socialist countries is a product of Western Propaganda.
Every nation creates propaganda, and you are certainly not immune to it.
And if you wanna talk about the tyranny imposed by Socialist states, then I'd ask you if you're willing to apply the same level of criticism to Capitalist/Imperialist states.
Because Capitalism has a death rate too. And I can say with some confidence, it's higher than Communism. By several magnitudes.
Anarcho-communism is not a contradiction.
A system where all economical and social aspects are managed by the state is called socialism. Communists believe a socialist state will gradually abolish its power once the system has stabilized, leading to a classless and stateless society; communism.
Communists honestly believe communism is a totally free system and the way to achieve it is through socialism.
i think it fits fairly well with baseline human psychology.
small groups capable of governing on principle rather than code due to basically no logistical or bureaucratic strain.
warlords and strongmen hoooooooooo
@@LoganBryant-yl9qh I'm not confused by the Anarcho part, It's the communist part that doesn't work without governing oversight.
I love how people were white-knighting for this show like it's the best thing to happen the Watchmen franchise, and come 2023, people barely even remember this show exists let alone think it's a good sequel or series.
Not surprised, shills love to shill for woke trash.
Lovecraft country had even less impact.
Oh there are still people white-knighting for it, I believe that Rolling Stone placed it on one of their lists of the best televisions shows this very year.
@@kodybuffettwilson you just mifht be the only th8nking being still reading thebrollibg stone. You shouod let ot die. It had a good run. But that was ablong time ago now. Almost a decade since they went woke. It cant be saved at this point.
I legit didn't know it existed.
Damon Lindelof is a terrible writer. That is all.
I've still not forgiven him for Prometheus, and I never will.
The only piece of work I heard was any good by him is The Leftovers.
@@IaMaPh1991Nor should you. I’ve seen every bad Alien ripoff out there and every single one of them is better than Prometheus. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Even Star Crystal.
He also isn’t white, he’s Jewish.
@Kesyabasturd the leftovers is genius work, easily my favorite show
Remember how Moore was appalled with people sympathizing with Rorschach and that they rooted for him despite considering him as the villain?
I mean it’s not hard to see why as the guy was more of a hero than the others and his greatest trait about himself was that more than anything else, he would never have compromised his principles even in the face of Armageddon.
In short: Rorschach did nothing wrong.
(gives him the most simply iconic design)
(gives him the most interesting motives)
(gives him the best lines)
(gives him a noble, uncompromising death)
(implies he still wins in the end)
"Why does everyone like Rorschach? >:("
@@kyon813Also give him a sympathetic backstory in the form of being routinely abused by his single mother.
Not true. Rorschach did plenty wrong. LORD willing, opposing Dr. Manhattan and Ozymandias just isn't one of them.
@@Dagenspearhe did, but even then it was always with the goal of justice
even after he cracked from that one case. jail is full of people who got locked up because of him
Yeah, he was a dangerous kook who believed some slightly screwed up shit but he was the clearest hero in the cast in a lot of ways and he literally died trying to expose and get justice for the largest terror attack in history. Sure that would have had major negative consequences but he went down doing what he thought was best for the world.
It is so obvious and makes Moore look so out of touch that I can't help but think that this is Moore finding reasons to bitterly shit on his audience/DC comics in retrospect again like he does every now and then and not something he really intended from the start.
Alan legite didn’t realize how much better of a character Rorschach is for being a nutcase with a very awful personality, it shows he still knows what is right, at no point do you see him go after gay people or minorities, he targets child predators, people you cannot sympathize with, it’s insane to think he tried to make him unlikeable but gave him such strong conviction.
Alan Moore: Wants to make people consider Rorschach as a bad person and hate him.
Also Alan Moore: Made Rorschach a guy with uncompromising morality (albeit verbally bigot at times) who only targets bad people.
He's not a nutcase. And he isn't racist either. His internal turmoil and self loathing does not synergize with his moral compass, decision making, or thought process. His mind is like a living hell that he lives in. He still manages to be functional to the point of solving complex crimes and interacting with his team members as a professional crime fighter. He's not a bad guy. His subconscious is violent but that doesn't mean he agrees with anything it says. That wouldn't make him crazy either. He eats uncooked beans because he never got over the guilt of losing that girl and he hates himself for it. Every action he commits to outside of wearing his mask is an act of self loathing. He wants to die, but not at the expense of him not being around to take out awful people. He took his mask off when Manhattan killed him because he was finally able to redeem himself as himself without the mask. He stood up to a God as the man he always wanted to be but couldn't let free
The thing is, the show actually could've actually said something about the hardships of black communities. That would've required them to be critical of the government and maybe even black communities themselves, so instead they took the cheap route and made trailer trash the bad guys. The American government has absolutely done some shady, terrible, and even racist things. However that would require legitimately critical thought and could've been, dare I say, controversial.
You don't even need to make up half the shit this show does. There's enough real racist awful things the government did to black people that can fill entire fucking novels.
Boondocks did a much better job. Hell, MLK Jr. even comes back from the dead and criticizes the black community rather harshly for their failings. But you can tell that the show is done by blacks who care about their communities.
@@DarkenedArc Remember when they used to sterilize black and Latino poor people because they were considered delinquents?
This is a weird complaint. The original comic was never about individual hardships of specific communities. It was about fascism being the dominant force in a world filled with masked vigilantes and cults of personalities that are inherent to authoritarians.
The third cavalry being trailer trash secretly controlled by cyclops is really on point for watchmen. Rorshach was a far right extremist who hated all types of minorities and anybody that wasn't as extreme as him. Like he shares his distaste for women and minorities multiple times. Its not like its a secret.
We also see that his journal is filled with classic fascist conspiracy theories and is a jumbled mess because he is so mentally unwell. Then when he dies he literally sends his journal off to an 80s version of the daily stormer. And they can't even figure out what he is trying to expose because its just the scribbles of a right wing mad man.
@@kingpinavatar The point is that this show is about trailer trash and that doesn't say anything about society. They started saying something about the government around the end, about their willingness to cover up what they want. But then the show immediately switches to a flat power-hungry villain. The original Watchmen comic was a Satire of society at large. The show has a basic ass message of "racism bad" and I've seen that same topic covered with more grace in kids' shows.
I remember going to see Watchmen in the theaters back when it first came out. Having zero knowledge of the graphic novel, I didn't know what to expect. Rorschach was by far my favorite part of the film and his speech on never compromising even in the face of Armageddon stuck with me all of these years later.
He was a true lunatic until the very end
little did you know that Rorschach was the villain the piece you were supposed to hate and Ozy was the hero... 'Schach had all the qualities that the writer/creator hated and attributed to right wing people. essentially he was the right wing boogeyman/strawman. of course this was the comic and the movie adaptation differs a bit.
@@Shiirow I agree with you for the most part, but I think that there is no inherent good guy to the story. Sure Ozzy “saved” the world but he also killed countless people in order to do so. It seems like it would be ignorant to say that any of the so called hero’s in the story are really good people. They all are more like the real people of our world where most people aren’t good or evil, just following their own values
@@Shiirow and considering how most people like Rorshach, or at least agree with his position in the final choice, really goes to show how skewed Alan Moore's political and moral compass is.
@@ethanhinton4549 and seeing his work turned into ass is like karma getting at him lol
Alan Moore created a character to make fun of the uncompromising hero by making him a murderous psychopath that refuses to ever change in anyway. Then makes him somehow one of the more morally upstanding people in the book and is perspective is completely understandable. Not to mention gives him a backstory where he feels completely justified in how he turned out. His worst traits are either implied (or told to us) like his racism and sexism or don't seem that bad in such a horrible world.
Then his best traits are highlighted throughout most of the story since he's the only one trying to do anything. He's the only person to not give into apathy and is still trying. His ideals are SO strong that he sticks to his guns and never compromises even in the face of Armageddon. Then is not only surprised that some people like the character but is angry that they do.
Dude is either salty that people connect more with his parody character or believes they morally incorrect. Either way I'm happy cause Alan Moore is insane and it's fun to see him freak out about people not interrupting the character he wanted. The very reason he created this character is because he didn't see Steve Ditkos character the way Steve Ditko intended.
And then there's Alan Moore mocking another author: Robert E. Howard, creator of Conan The Barbarian. Mocking him post-suicide, saying his mental breakdown from watching his mother slip away in hospital (she was in a coma at the time) proved how fake his hyper-masculine ideals were. Yikes!
@@emirlsanchos6302 He did WHAT?
@@emirlsanchos6302 I tripley hate this man now
@@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Appaling but true. Now I regret ever thinking he was worthy of respect having been an artistic pioneer. But sometimes the best craftsmen turn out to be the worst individuals.
Jean Cocteau once wrote:
"The worst tragedy for a poet is to be admired through being misunderstood."
Alan Moore wrote Rorschach as a parody of Steve Ditko's objectivist and the heroes he used as his mouthpiece: Mr. A and The Question, both of whom were insane fascists.
The reason Moore's character was so well-received while Ditko's characters were savaged is because Ditko couldn't back up his characters with things like good writing or characterization.
Consider that Spider-Man, Ditko's greatest achievement, is the complete antithesis of his own personal views and if Ditko had had his way with him, he would've ended up like the other characters he wrote: mocked and condemned to obscurity, at least until a competent writer got a hold of them.
As much as Moore hated Ditko's views and characters, he refused to settle on making a blatant, on-the-nose parody and instead gave Rorschach the characterization Ditko refused to give his own, because he refused to compromise his own principles. Sound familiar?
It's not Moore's fault for being a good writer.
This is same thing that happened with the DC character Lobo, who was written specifically to parody the hyper-violent edgy antihero archetype that characters like Rorschach, The Comedian, The Punisher, Deadpool and Frank Miller's Batman would eventually popularize in the 90's. Ironically, despite having been written as an ironic, satirical character, fans took the satire at face value and he became just as popular as the antiheroes he was made to mock.
If a writer has to blatly announce his views on a character or idea with a big fat sign rather than with an engaging and entertaining story, then that says more about the reader's intelligence than it does about the writer's skills.
In a rare twist, Rorschach's popularity is in equal parts because of Moore's writing skills as much as it is in spite of said skills.
Rorschach is a jaded conspiracy theorist that gets proven right at every turn in the story and is the only one with the balls to blow the lid on one of the greatest atrocities even committed. How exactly did Allen Moore think he was even a parody? Let alone a villain?
“The only thing separating Batman from the joker is if Batman ever says “wassup my nigga”
- Alan Moore… probably
He doesn't think he's a villain, that's straight up a mischaracterization. It's that his objectivist worldview leaves very little grey area between the worst of the worst, and literal saints. He's also adjacent to all the other Randian bs, but he does seem to have a good head on his shoulders. The point is, that even if what he's doing is right, it's actively making his life worse.
@thisgoddamusernamestoofuck2694 Allen Moore has expressed outright disgust at the idea people like Rorschach. Doesn't seem like the actions of a man that doesn't see a character as a villain.
🙃@@naterivers6107
.Alan@@naterivers6107
Im honestly surprised this show came out before the Summer of Love. I can only imagine how much more unhinged it would've been if it came out after.
They were still pushing this shit because gay and especially troon was on the rise, that's why they were pushing all the capital B Black stuff
The summer of love was in the 60s. What are you referring to?
All the BLM George Floyd riots the other summer dingus
@@tasteflavored2020's "mostly peaceful" george floyd riots
@@tasteflavoredThe land of Chaz
Good shit. Couldn't agree more about stopping the hatewatch trend. Nobody owes bad media and creators who actively despise them their time.
I also think the writers are so terrified of AI because you could absolutely use existing footage as training data to fix these kinds botched movies/series.
But the show didn’t get a second season ?
Nobody hate watches, just saying.
I believe that it's genuinely bad for you to constantly consume bad media. You're destroying your sense of beauty and standards for quality. You're not respecting the value of your own free time and giving money to someone to psychologically abuse you.
@@Ashkihyena Mauler, Critical drinker, etc. I love those guys, and Mauler said he's done with sat wars, but still, those guys know it will be crap but keep watching it, make reviews or not, it's not a great plan
Yeah, but AI would suck compared to writers, they're a glorified search engine
I always found it funny how Rorschach is hands down the biggest example of death of the author when it comes to the character's portrayal. Alan Moore wanted his readers to view Rorschach as this sociopathic right wing racist but instead he comes off as the most redeemable character in the graphic novel who was willing to die for his beliefs that a lie shouldn't be kept for the sake of a fragile alliance between the superpowers of the world.
The fact that the HBO series went with Moore's take on the character and not the audience's views that has analyzed him for over 25 years, shows how out of touch the show really is.
Edit: Made the comment before finishing the whole video, so Loli hits the same beats as I did, but you get the point.
You can't blame Moore for his psyop not working as intended.
He's a literal communist, down to the piles of money he's never actually going to spend.
It doesn't work because Alan Moore failed to understand how bloodthirsty your average American is, especially your average American nerd.
From what I heard from this video, the only thing this show says about the character is that some racists emulate things about him.
Oh he's definitely a bigoted right-wing fascist character. He only looks good because all the other characters are either spineless, indifferent, or mass murderers.
Death of the author has been destroyed in recent times to make games fit the far lefts narrative, so I am glad that this example still holds up.
Seriously if I see someone claim Fallout I'd about how evil America is again in gonna snap
The idea of Dr. Manhattan being so in love with a woman that he not only gives himself amnesia but also race changes himself is so absurd its frankly offensive, none the less for a dull as dishwater woman, whose biggest feat is her melanin levels.
Also doesn't this technically mean Dr. Manhattan is blackfacing?
It's dumb just by the fact that Manhattan is supposed to be so far gone in terms of being a "human" that one would have to ask, why is he even here? Manhattan was barely holding on to his humanity and was at the point where he really didn't care anymore. He specifically said at the end of the comic/movie that he was gonna leave earth and stay out of human affairs.
To even have Manhattan come back in such a short time just spits on the original material. Even if he did return, there is zero reason he'd take the form of normal person. In all his time since gaining his powers he never altered his blue form to try and fit in as a normal person. Manhattan was barely holding on to his humanity and was at the point where he really didn't care anymore.
@@Zikk0_o The comic did have a similar thing to it where Manhattan, despite having this near omniscience before Ozymandias started messing around with tachyons, kept going after young women to the point of engaging in infidelity. Sort of like that his thirstiness kept him tethered to humanity. So this seems pretty on brand for the character.
I guess that also makes that Robot Chicken sketch a pretty accurate portrayal of him too.
@@crazyinsane500 Yes, but by the time he leaves Earth after the attack, he's pretty much done with humanity. He says that he's going to create life in another galaxy.
@@crazyinsane500yeah but he eventually left anyway he was done with mankind don’t know why he would go back
@@Galvatronover Same reason he did an infidelity as a nearly godlike being: Guy wants some tail.
Or at least that's what's confirmed by him going back to Earth to get some in the show. Kinda undermines the whole cosmic aspect to the character, doesn't it?
Jackie Earle Haley as Rorsarch is one of the greatest movie characters of all time. Legendary.
He's performance is iconic
This wasn't mentioned in the video, but Jackie Earle Haley is actually a big fan of the Watchmen comics. He sent an audition tape where he quoted Rorshach's beginning monologue wearing a bootleg version of the iconic mask he made himself.
He's also did his own fight scenes in the film, as he's actually a black belt in kenpo and taekwando, and did his own fight scenes, but inegrated a sloppy form of boxing into his fighting style, as Rorschach is a boxer in the comics.
I have a lot of issues with the Snyder version of watchmen, his casting choices (with some exceptions) were not one of them.
Jackie Earle Haley is an underrated actor in general I would say.
I genuinely love The Question and Rorschach.
Their paranoia is endearing in a weird way, mostly cuz they end up being right.
Jeffrey Combs was great as The Question in the Justice League animated series.
I think they're a cool relic from the right wing's past. you know, before they were taken over by nutjobs.
@@redman9493The Shoe Lace line was a point of conversation for me throughout high school.
@@kenjinuma that day I learned what aplets were.
They both were modeled after literal schizophrenic nutjobs you absolute idiot.
You can tell how terrible this show was when the creator of the abortion uses his father's death to defend this from anyone who dares to criticize how racist this show is.
that... is a horrible thing to do
how is the show racist?
Racist towards whom?
@@dapac09white people
"Oh yea I forgot this show existed"
-mfs who were calling the next big thing like 4 years ago
its the Lovecraft Country situation all over again.
I remember being excited for Lovecraft Country and barely making it through 1 episode
There's something delightfully ironic about Moore writing Rorschach as a critique of objectivism but then being upset when people end up agreeing with Rorschach because Moore believes and intends for him to be "objectively" wrong.
Yeah, that's the irony, most left wing politics are self-defeating 😅
lmao thats exactly what i thought.
It’s odd how when people are given the choice and left on there own, they become highly traditionalist and right wing, (which are separate),
Get a bunch of people of any culture and throw them on an island? 100% gauruntee they have a unique culture they stick heavily too in 300 years.
Let people think freely and make jokes and talk? 100% everyone will be friends with everyone and still call everyone “my nigga”💀💀💀
I'm shocked that Jeffrey Dean Morgan has played two psychopathic smart mouths and I only ever knew about one of them
You could argue John Winchester is crazy too, but I guess hes too stoic to be a smart mouth
I really do appreciate that this channel mostly reviews things that people actually love. Teardowns of bad trash are fun, but good deserving praise is harder to come by these days.
I'll always thank Loli for introducing me to Mr. Inbetween. A+ show, all the way through.
maybe do something where everytime disney tries to come up with fake star wars release retrospective parts on the old eu and show people how to get in
It's good you called out hate watching, I honestly can't be bothered giving bad media from philistines any attention and I do think rage baiting is a marketing tool. The recent Castlevainia show apparently did just that.
Oh great now what did they do? I already had worries when they got rid of the 1st seasons writer
Whys my replies keep getting deleted?
Lemme try a third time. Hate Watching is fueled by Greed. ArchCast and EFAP are drug pushers getting their audiences addicted to Hate Watching and shitty culture war content. God called Greed a sin for a reason.
I don't have a problem with critics from our side of the aisle watching and reviewing it since otherwise it is just the bought out critics and far lefty reviewers who will praise something just because it agrees. Otherwise people won't be able to point out why it sucks, normies might make it popular if they think it looks good, and TAL would be hypocritical for covering it at all. It shouldn't be hate watched by the people who would probably disagree with it though so I agree there.
@@burntgrahamcracker2866the gave a character dark skin and that sends people into a fit of rage apparently
There does seem to be some hate towards traditionally heroic characters from a lot of writers. It's like their world view is so cynical that they can't even imagine that some people do good things just to do good. That not everyone is some kind of horrible hate monster deep down. I've never really cared much for that narcissistic view on humanity.
They can't imagine any other personality, but their own.. I see everywhere nowadays.. And they are all the same self important, stupid af, nasty af, and just a general pos.. It's even in the games from the west now
Even Rorschach who had a bleaker view of humanity than any of the other characters (justifiably so given his life experience) still layed down his life to bring Adrian to justice for his atrocities, making him ironically inspirational.
Had no idea Allan Moor intended Rorschach is the villain, I seriously thought he was pushing something more complex, sure Rorschach is an insane asshole, but it really seemed like in a world as insane as he is, he would be the natural hero
Plus he had himself be killed so that he wouldn't thwart Ozymandias' plans
I feel "intended Rorschach to be the villain" is a bit overstating it a little.
I think like the rest of the crimebusters/minutemen Rorschach was intended to a flawed kook whose simplistic moral and worldview just doesn't in the real world.
Rorschach is just more flawed, repulsive and demented than the rest because Moore doesn't respect him or what he represents.
But to Moore's credit as a writer Rorschach - while a send up of Mr A - doesn't feel like a caricature because too much of a pro to leave him as that.
I think Loli right in that the context of the world around him that make Rorschach more... admirable than Moore intended.
The one way he could be considered "The villain" depends on what you believe the effects of his journal is:
If you believe it's the wetch in Ozymandias and set the dominoes to nuclear war then, yeah, Rorschach the dumb arsehole who ruined everything and dooms the world.
On the other hand if you believe Ozymandias plan is vain deluded madness I duded by doom mongering hysteria and a God complex then the Journal exposes the bastard as the mass murder he is. In that context Rorschach actions and instinct to not compromise the truth - for all his sins - is ultimate meaningful.
Virtuous.
Heroic even.
Whether the world knows or a small bunch of kooks.
Or maybe the journal has no effect.
That Rorschach life amount nothing more than killing a tiny percent of the world's criminal.
Drop in the ocean in the grand scale of things.
All sound and fury.
Signifying nothing.
I hadn't read the comic or even heard of it before I saw the movie. I just viewed it as a dark and gritty take on the genre. Maybe I'm just a simpleton but even though he had some issues, I walked away feeling like Rorschach was the "good guy" in the end and was bummed he got liquefied. Most of the "heroes" in the story were dealing with each other, where he was actually trying to save people and make the world as better place in the end. His tactics may have been questionable, but in that setting and circumstance... A lot going on there.
@@The_PunisherAnd in the same action he kept to his morals and wasn't willing to go against truth and justice like a real hero.
I always saw it as “how bad have things gotten that THIS is the best man around?” To me it was never the point to notice how bad Rorschach was but to notice how evil the world that created him is
So i just watched Synthetic man’s review of spider man 2 where he basically called everything woke, basically ignored a majority of the story beats or actively forgot about them.
And then I get to here where this guy breaks down why watchmen isn’t just woke, it’s wokeness doesn’t benefit the story. Not just that a show has politics but it doesn’t say anything meaningful.
Based Chad
Basically "Could've been good"
@@l0sts0ul89
Synthetic Man will get it right sometimes.
Between not knowing how to play a game and hating almost anything not named Spyro 2.
@@lucascoval828real
Saul carrying this vid is not something I expected, good job Loli for making him a co-host
Yeah dont be too mean if I missed something but wtf is the odenkirk dialogue, is it Ai or is there a video of Bob talking about watchmen out there
@@chrislogan2580I'm pretty certain it's AI
It must be AI, but the speech sounded so real. The little intermittent breaths throughout the sentences, the slight stumbling over words here and there. It sounds legit.
The irony is Rorschach embodied what it meant to be a hero in the end better than any of the others. He kept to his principles and died believing he was standing up for truth.
Besides the hate-watching aspects, I no longer feel comfortable watching the majority of modern Hollywood stuff. It is making a lot of people forced to walk on egg shells. Since “The Last Jedi” came out, the majority of Hollywood projects are being used for stupid Internet fights.
Yup, and it poisons the soul, as intended..
The best way to tell some group is a scapegoat is the double standard that must apply for them to be blamed. The scapegoat ALWAYS has to be a cabal of secret geniuses with infinite power and reach and good public perception . . . who are also still somehow completely inferior morally, intellectually, physically and aesthetically. Once you accept this doublethink, which is what that is, it's over.
Yeah, it's kinda all over when you realize a woke show's baddies are characterized in the exact same way as the Nazis characterized the Jews.
I know we talk about how this show wasted Regina King, but Wokemen also wastes Hong Chau as an actress. She was amazing in The Menu and The Whale; she's an incredible actress, but she's wasted as this generic villain who just wants to beat Dr. Manhattan and take his powers.
I also want to bring something up, too: it's very subtle, but Watchmen does imply that Laurie wanted to take her father's mantle as the Comedian in the final scene of the comic, a after she and Night Owl visit Sally Jupiter; she talks about wanting a new costume that included a mask and guns. It's a very brief line, but it is there. What I don't get is why Laurie would have such a hate boner against vigilantes when the end of Watchmen outright states that she and Night Owl are still acting as costumed superheroes, which was why they had to assume new identities to begin with, which itself doesn't make sense, since I imagine the US Government would want to keep tabs on the US's former nuclear deterant and ace-in-the-whole. It doesn't make sense to me.
Also, despite Watchmen's 1985 being pushed forward technologically, you see fuck all trace of that in this show. Where are the floating blimps and electric cars? What happened to the signs of Utopia that were in the end of the comic? Why would Dr. Manhattan leave Earth and Laurie when he's going to come back to Earth just so he can bang a black chick, and why did he have to make himself black in order to do that?
EDIT: As a black man, thank Christ someone finally addressed all that shit behind the Tulsa Massacre. A few minutes of research would reveal that Wokemen's interpreation of the massacre and people's lack of information on it has been skewed in order to incite anger in woke people. Thank you for clarifiying that.
If it helps, I believe that Dan and Laurie got caught at some point and where strongarmed into being government agents. Dan said no (Hence why you don't see him in this show.) Laurie said yes.
As for the technology, in universe they tried to get rid of that Dr. Manhattan made. Out of fear that it was extremely carcinogenic. Remember the last time the general public saw Dr. Manhattan he was on a TV show and was accused of giving a bunch of people cancer where he had a big freak out over it. You do see bits of the alt-tech thing going on. Ever notice that all the computers are old MS-DOS ones from the 80's? But we can add the fact that technology stagnated due to people growing to reliant on Dr. Manhattan to the ever-growing pile of actually interesting things this show could have covered.
The plot about the millionaire wanting to steal Dr. Manhattan's powers sounds so eerily similar to the same stupid plot for She-Hulk. At least on there it was played for "laughs".
Edit: Just for clarification, at no point I'm advocating for She-Dull, I just find funny the similarity which is obviously an over simplification of the plot from my part.
Clearly you have not watched the show. This is solid gold compared to she hulk.
The "millionaire" is ozymandias you dumbfuck. At least watch the thing you want to criticize for fuck sake
Hey now, at least this show still has some redeeming qualities (even the author pointed them out) and good special effects, She-Hulk has none, being "played for laughs" or not, it's an utter trainwreck writing-wise and visually.
@@Ryan-zv3os
Stop defending the show at every reply chain, you pathetic cuck.
What, you mean you dont have a teleporter built out of car parts in the Kentucky backwoods?
As a homegrown, kentucky fried chicken loving Kentucky resident, I can confirm I have an intergalactic car part teleporter in my backyard.
Walter Kovacs is a damn hero. Doomsday clock and this make him just seem like a villain. I'd love a comic series that has his complete story from his first day to the moment Manhattan atomizes him.
In the end he is the only one of the main cast who is willing to die for his principles. In his quest to provide humanity with the truth of what just happened to it, rather than letting it labour under a delusion, he stands up to a literal immortal god. And he doesn't even break eye contact.
Genuinely inspirational.
Just goes to show how delusional Alan Moore was to believe that people would see him as a villain.
Jews will never allow him to be seen as a hero. Literally IMHO they made that comic and this show to hammer it in. They literally made him a black guy (spoiler it's the therapist's son cosplaying him) in the comic and kkk wear his mask in the show
@@alphaotakux Yeah they kept saying that Kovacs was bad but I believe the therapist *was* looking for fame (given the world they were in and lack of good people) and they should have demonized ozymandias a lot more because essentially that was what caused nu-rosarach to go insane.
@@gathenhielm9977it can be inspirational but it also absolutely causes the end of the world
The 80s cartoon parody still continues to be the best Watchmen thing since the original comic.
Indeed but I still think before watchmen: minutemen deserves more credit.
The movie is still really good, if you can put up with some of the over the top gore and the pacing from everything being condensed into a movie.
@@mrscruffles801 I still want the squid cut.
Rumor has it Alan Moore actually liked it.
Character assassination, bitterness and defamation.
That would make a better show than this pile.
🎩
🐍 no step on Snek!🇺🇸🇭🇰
Hello, Tulsa native here. Really enjoyed seeing the takedown of this show, because I have hated HBO's watchmen since it came out. The sad part is that its message makes race relationships worse. Tries to rewrite events to make bad things even worse just to promote an agenda and really foster more hatred.
Also, if I don't see at least a few King of the Hill jokes at the expense of Oklahoma from the fans of this channel, I'll be gravely disappointed. Stay blessed everybody.
How's tulsa now??
@@josesosa3337 It's a nice place. Like anywhere, its not perfect. But it's generally just a good place to live.
What events did they specifically rewrite for the show. Surely it wasn't the Tulsa Massacre part. Right?
I despise the fact my Caucasian American counterparts are really fighting against an objective view of our history be it in a tv show or in real life. How sad! In the words of Donald Trump
@@1Sir-McKnight cool
This was a great break down. You really knocked it out of the park with this one.
A family friend tried to get me and my parents to watch this at his house (after we showed him episodes of The Prisoner 1967) and it was the most awkward thing ever. In the first or second episode there’s a sex scene in a closet which haunts me sometimes when I go to sleep. Watchman was so bad that it caused me to experience that existential horror where you watch your parents fumbling a social event the same way you have before and you feel dirty for being the quintessential fruit borne of their failures.
Why was it bad exactly?
So youre telling me, you watched a show with family thats based on a comic where rape is shown, and not expect stuff like that? Thats pretty dumb.
They paid you back for The Prisoner with _this?_ How's that a fair trade? The Prisoner is awesome.
@@georgehernandez2156I don't think he was bothered by the sex itself, but rather HOW it was done.
@@Ryan-zv3os Did you watch the video yet or did you just click on it to read the comments?
I like how you change the color of your text to yellow to match the WATCHMEN title pretty cool
I really like how you tackle the whole hate watch mindset that people just must see a new piece of media even if it’s bad and actually hates the viewer, more people need to stop hate watching because it’s basically just consuming junk food and doing nothing but eating junk food is not healthy
People need to realise pirate bay lives on still going, on 94% off shows will be available within the next day, at the most.
Really only seems to be a thing with some UA-camrs. I don't know anyone who would actually watch something they hate in real life except me because I write and like to pick apart stories.
Wow amazing that you worked in collaboration with Saul Goodman. He knows a lot about this material!
It wouldn’t be a loli video without getting a history lesson that the American public school system failed to instill into my brain.
And that lesson delivered by Saul Goodman of course
AI saul is just the best part in this video
The scary part is that’s is actually really good 💀
He's grown from a few extra spices to the side dish that makes the meal complete.
>Look up Damon Lindelof
>Early life check
every single time
>he still needs to check
You'll only get stronger.
Goes without saying
There is now an entire genre of post-Trump panic films
It's irritating how hollyweird tries to fear monger their audience into voting a certain way. Their job is supposed to be to entertain; not dictate politics to people.
@@dannyknightblade4592 Lol how are they dictating politics? That doesn't even make sense. They can make whatever the hell they want. Free speech absolutists are some of the biggest hypocrites in all of existence.
@@VampiricBardyou don't see well huh!? I was born aware, so I don't know if you can change that.. Maybe psychoactives!? They take you outta your box, easily, and forever.. You don't have to be like this, save yourself!,😏
^^^ We're merely pointing out propaganda when we see it, being pro free speech does not mean we can't criticize, especially when the intentions are as bad as this.
@@VampiricBardFigure it out you dummy
Damn that Bob Odenkirk ai voice is good, it fooled me til the end thinking "when and where tf did he say this?" lmfao.
Yeah, honestly I didn't even know it was AI until I read people pointing out it was an AI voice in the comment section.
Is it wrong to enjoy just regular fun, adventurous comics than the continuous edginess being made to this day, there’s so much bleakness a person can take until the nihilism can make you depressed at every turn.
I started One Piece 'cause I just wanted a fun adventure to take my mind off the shit in the real world and the job I hated at the time. Worked like a charm.
"I don't want to think!! I want bread and circuses" I think art is too complex for you bud
@@BreakEm22stop huffing your own farts, you pretentious twat waffle.
@@BreakEm22 Nothing wrong with a little bit of dumb fun every once in a while to break up the serious stuff
@@BreakEm22 As opposed to what? Living and breathing passive-aggressive snobbery like you lot tend to bask in? Particularly towards those who hold contrarian opinions?
Makes me glad I tend to be apathetic towards any new shows nowadays. Even when people I watch bring up the woke, far-left elements, I just simply ignore it and move on, because there's no point in me indulging in something I know I won't like.
If I hear it's shit, it's shit I ain't bothering to watch it. That's pretty much what I adhere to.
Hate hearing the w-word now. It's peak boomer buzzword that didn't die because we live in a world where a single woman couldn't handle criticism over her forgotten game.
Rorschach did nothing wrong
LORD willing, he did plenty wrong, but that doesn't mean being against Ozymandias and Manhattan are what he did wrong.
@@Dagenspear "Plenty wrong"? Such as?
@@dannyknightblade4592 They can't actually tell you because their programmers are still writing the patch.
@@dannyknightblade4592 I completely disagree with the notion that Rorschach was intended to be viewed as the villain, Moore has never said anything like that and the text doesn't support it. He's the protagonist of the story.
That said, Rorschach is basically a serial killer, he's shown torturing innocent people for information. He doesn't bathe and owns only one set of clothes he doesn't wash. He's alienated everyone in his life with the exception of Dan, who he doesn't even respect enough to not repeatedly break into his home.
He's a lot like Travis Bickle. Monologues a lot about corruption and wanting to clean the streets, and by the end he manages to do good. But Travis is an anti social weirdo who almost murders random politician for no reason and inspired the real life assassination attempt on President Reagan. Is Travis a villain? No, would you want to hang out with him, or anyone who strongly identified with him? I wouldn't.
@@STNKbone Torturing "innocent" people? I think you may need to reevaluate your Definition of the word innocent. Rorschach punished lowlives who were far from being innocent people.
Alan Moore is so weird. He put alot time and effort into his works yet he disavows them for really petty or strange reasons.
Also this show sounds like it was written by a room full of redditors who vaguely know the comics.
I recall reading some speculation that the "Tulsa attack planes" thing possibly came from the civilian plane that was surveilling the riot dropping message canisters to try and communicate with police on the ground. Since this was before radio was really viable as a method of communication, aircraft communication had to be made with signal flares or by dropping literal written notes inside of canisters onto the earth below, so to people on the ground, it may have been perceived as dropping bombs.
Nuh uh, dah kaykaykay totally flew around dropping bombs on black children!!! Some rich pedophile hack told me so!! They would never lie
The whole point of Watchmen was that it was the exact opposite of a traditional comic book. Bad people doing bad things to debatably worse people in a world beyond salvation. Turning it into a traditional superhero narrative misses the point.
I love when leftists make a right wing character that they want the audience to hate but then they end up being the most based one in the IP
And to that point, what kind of psycho do you need to be to side with dr. manhattan or ozymandius
@@gnarfarmera common type of psycho. I’ve encountered hundreds of them
@@DarranKern sad world we live in
Seriously lol, and I’m saying this as a leftist how Moore managed to fumble his own narrative this horribly is comedic. I didn’t know Rorschach was even meant to be a right wing caricature. He always seemed like the only rational person in the story.
"I have a nose for white supremacy and he smells like bleach" that line was so heavy handed you could knock Rocky Balboa out with it.
It doesnt even make any sense
@@GigaChadh976
This show came out in the wake of the Jussie Smollett saga where he claimed he was jumped by 2 White guys who tied a noose on him and doused him in bleach while yelling “This is MAGA country!”
Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knew he was a lying sack of trash, but the media defended him at every turn.
That’s the story behind that cringey line of dialogue.
And that's not even the heaviest line in the show lol
Yeah, I remember this show. It sounded like it was written by millennials on twitter, and was about as smart. Dr Manhattan literally teleports a mansion from earth to Europa, but can't just zap away the power stealing ray into the sun. Yep. Totally made sense.
Finding out that David Hayter wrote the movie was like hitting smelling salts
He also wrote X-Men 1 and 2.
'God exists, and they are african american'
-The writer most likely
Remember, Gatekeeping can be good 👍🏼👍🏼
Not "can be" - _always is._
Keep your passions private and your fandoms invite-only.
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a more spiteful adaptation than this.
Anything by disney nowadays is just as bad, the witcher, rings of power, ghost busters, willow, TMNT, scooby doo, I could go on..
It was a massive fumble and one of the biggest signs media is really taking a high dive into a shallow puddle.
Not many franchises left to destroy just a few years later.
I had to hold in my laughter when I learned that the antagonists were super Ku Klux Klan.
Something that made me incredibly sad when I went from the comics and movie to the 2019 Watchmen dumpster fire was that there was no longer any ambiguity. You can't have a character like Rorschach anymore, one that is a hilariously terrible stereotype strawman to some while being a legitimate hero with good morals to others. It's so painfully obvious how you're supposed to feel about characters now. There's no room for interpretation or seeing the good in bad characters or vice versa. Morality is a hardened pipe with which the bad writers hit you repeatedly over the head. You're not allowed to question, you're not allowed to think for yourself, you're not allowed to like the bad guy. You're only allowed to have one opinion, and that's the one the writers and director want you to have. An integral part of art is being lost.
It's no longer about being posed with a question and left to think about it in uncomfortable silence. It's now about being screamed at by a mob in a way that makes you uncomfortable. Those are two very different things that "artists" today don't seem to understand.
Exactly! It makes we want to as offensive ve as possible, all the time. I'm so disappointed humanity is CLEARLY evolving backwards, and no one is trying to avoid it!
A disgrace to both the comic and the movie. Couldn’t even be bothered to give it a second of my time because I knew exactly what it was going to be.
I love how they always use the Kent State imagery, with the little innocent non-MK-ultra'd out hippie girl with her inept symbolic little flower reaching for the gun barrel. The old joke was "national guard..three, hippies...zero." The irony of the original watchmen, is the cold war paranoia is at it's height in the story, but it's shown to be completely correct. The anarchist Alan Moore ends up crafting the dissident right Rorschach as correct in his paranoia, he was correct on his points, and his views...and I wonder if this clicks with the general reader. They knock the method of assessment and acquirement of the truth, whereas do not ackowledge that that truth he found was objectively valid. It's the shooting the messanger concept, where the method needs to fit this preselected sort of these lukewarm secular humanist parameters. "He's crazy because he's paranoid! See how paranoid he is though?!? Oh man he's distrustful of everyone, what a terrible life," as the world in Watchmen is one that's fundementally meant to be distrusted, as it's a deconstruction of those traditional nonsense superhero tales..coming from their own special little group of outsider writers. Jack Kirby...or Jack Kurtzberg as he was born, created captain america and these figures that fight against the leftists own paranoia induced figures, yet figures that do not actually pertain to reality. Look at the red skull, or superman and his crypto nature, always alienated by the host society he dwells within.
Comic books, especially the American variety should get their own episode, or deep dive if you find any of this interesting. The intermixture of politics, neo-liberalism, the 20th century subversive rise in smut, which comic's ultimately pushed in their own little way. It all comes together, and it's no suprise Hollywood utilized those same subversize characters to push the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the saviors of multicult neolib/neocon society from usually nonsense threats. Man versus robot, man versus bug, man versus alien race, all at the behest of our sanctified tenets of democracy and fighting to instill the proposition nation against any existential outside threat. Always winning and always letting it breed and seep further and further into the foundation.
Compare these to Robert E. Howard and his mythos with Conan, or Solomon Kane...vitality is the fundemental word. Abject vitality. Interesting how that thematic element is purged from these films/series, and replaced with dysgenic maladaptive expressions.
I loved the original watchmen for the ending, the files sent to the conspiracy crank newspaper, the truth finding it's way beneath the waves, potentially making a brief apperance above water, and most likely being pushed right back down. The metaphysics and esotericism of our everyday lives is mirrored in these shows, we are seeing the schizo paranoia of the neoliberal expressed back at us, his fear...his realization and reorientation of his own contradictory beliefs and fears concerning them, and his cowardice is never being able to do anything but submit.
That is why Watchmen is an accidental masterpiece, it succeed despite Alan Moores narrative intentions. He twisted his own twisted world view which simply made the entire thing do a 360.
@@Shiirow Completely agree, sort of like how Fight Club succeeded in spite of the writers own intentions and inherent biases. Like the concept of the Greek muses, the degenerate writer accidently writes something that clicks with an audience he would reject outright. But that's the fun in art, the writer does not own it past the point of publishing, it's up to the reader to do with it what he will. You see that with Judge Dredd; a comic written by british leftists satirizng right-wing politics, or their perception of what those would be if the neocon's could have everything they truly wanted. And yet, the readers all loved it. The idea's expressed, the totalitarian nature, "I AM THE LAW" fit peoples wants and desires, and everyone bypassed the satire and read it straight. As did Death Wish back in the 70's. Humorous how all that worked out, and then they get all miffed about it as well, which Moore certaintly did.
Okay, you mad raving conspiracy nut-cum-Anti SJW.
EDIT: No, seriously. You're literally pushing a far-right conspiracy about how comic books are tools of the government to brainwash people. That is utter bullshit, and the fact that 44 people and counting liked your conspiracy proves just how SHEEP-like people can be.
@@DiamorphineDeath "Service guarantees citizenship, would you like to know more?"
@@ajsouza3720 You going for Heinlein there dude?
Honestly you one of my favorite UA-camrs because when you talk about something you don’t like you don’t just say WOKE or THE MESSAGES but you actually talk about the root problems and you actually seem more caring and invested in your videos unlike other people who just make the same god damn video over and over again so in short you make good ass videos keep up the good work 💋
Hey kinda does use the work and message argument but he explains why that’s effecting the show ie the racism allegory
@@Galvatronover he does say that but that’s not his main point and not his only argument against the show he actually talks about other issues in the show as well on like other UA-camr like baby face drinker and a few others would just say woke and leave it at that
@@Galvatronover and also UA-camrs who hate watch movies/ shows have a ecosystem with them
@@DaughterCesar I watch there videos and they do go into depth on why the movies are bad drinker doesn’t rave room for long form criticism but I watch his streams and he explains
@@Galvatronover with drinker he actually makes other videos like production hell and recommend movies/ shows which are pretty interesting fun
I can't believe saul goodman himself helped you narrate this video. What a great man..
Alan Moore is kind of a nutter. He’d have no problem with killing off most of the world if it meant “ the greater good” for humanity and the planet. I like the movie’s message better.
Synder may be cringe, but he did right there.
@@applesandgrapesfordinner4626 Snyder just needs to focus on edgy and dark characters. Give him Spawn, Punisher, or Red Hood. That's his alley.
@kevintanza6968 Honestly true. It doesn't work with characters who by principle are not antiheroes or wangsters like Superman.
Looking Glass is the best character in that HBO show and Alan Moore is an overrated hack.
How so
He's one of the few writers where the adaptations are superior. Take from that what you will.
@@Astorath_the_GrimAbsolutely not. Most adaptations of his work is brainless garbage. The only ones that don't absolutely suck are that one episode of Justice League and parts of the Zack Snyder Watchmen movie.
When I complained on reddit they proceeded to call me racist
i misread the title as as Condensation and Exfoliation
My family were gypsies, eastern Europeans,Polish, Germans , Romanians,etc. Alot were OFFED by the nazis. My family never owned a slave. They moved her b4 WW1. They experienced HORRIBLE racism when coming her in the cargo hold of a boat.
So why should I EVER feel guilty and have to pay reparations? We weren't ever nazis. My family FAUGHT IN WW1,WW2, Korea for you all. My great uncle was TORTURED by the Japanese. He saw his friends deleted in ☠ marches.
Every race has experienced harsh times. Jews went through ALOT! Every race has been through slavery and genocide. Does that make it okay? No. But the positive is I'm with my black wife. I have black family and friends. If we could go back and time and change it I wouldn't. Bcs who knows what would happen.
(That's why MK11'S Jax ending is racist! If he prevented racism theres a great chance there would be no where as many black ppl here.)
Would I go back and change history for my family? No. Bcs I dont want to ruin history. Shows like this are infuriating. Not every white person had slaves. Why should one race get free money bcs of the past? Everyone who was responsible for the bad is dead.
You want to hate someone? Hate the rich who keep all us poor down! Stop pointing out race. When you do that YOUR THE RACIST!
Preaching to the choir
It was gold until the very end. Then you started spouting the same rhetoric that helped create the communists AND the nazis.
Just wanna say that your use of AI Saul was perfect in this video. Amazing work.
This show is actually quite useful in determining if someone you meet has any political intelligence or ability to understand logic or quality. Unfortunately, most of them liked it.
That whole "reddit talk about republicans" you mentioned is fitting since the Watchmen's sub reddit (not the show, the whole franchise) keeps praising this show like it's the second coming.
Some of them actually think the whole rotten tomatos thing is some conspiracy from [choose your own group of people with radical agenda] that didn't like the show's "boldness"
Yeah, I remember that! A few years ago- I made the mistake of joining r/watchmen- thinking it would be full of cool fan art, interesting theories, funny memes, alternative universe stuff, etc. Instead, it's full of the usual pretentious cuck-filled Reddit snobs- it got even worse ever since this cancer of a show appeared💀
*walks in before the video can start*
Rorschach was right.
*refuses to elaborate*
*leaves*
PSA: hate watching is fine but for the love of God, don't use the official (legal) ways to watch the show
I feel like Alan Moore's greatest enemy is and always has been Alan Moore.
He's a prick with an unhealthy obsession with rape.
Seven minutes in and a slight error in the review has already set off my autism
The "Minutemen" were the FIRST superhero team, with the first Nite Owl, the first Silk Spectre, Comedian and a bunch of randoms
The "Crimebusters" were another one with all the main characters plus Captain Metropolis from the Minutemen, and THAT'S the one renamed to the "Watchmen" in the movie
Carrying on
Edit: This is a great video, even if I didn't really agree with some of the conclusions drawn about the comic. I think the thing that offends me most about Watchmen 2019 is that the setting and main characters are based on a contrivance so Lindelof et al. could get on their soapbox. The show takes place in this random-ass southern town instead of New York and a bunch of the Watchmen characters show up there just because Dr. Manhattan chose to meet, date, and marry a completely random civilian woman. We're expected to believe that he did this because he knows the future and that he would. Get this, though: that's not actually how his whole living in the past, present, and future simultaneously thing actually worked in the comic. He didn't do things BECAUSE the future said he would do them, he still had motives of his own, he only used knowing the future to explain why he CAN'T do something. Total contrivance. WTF does Oklahoma have to do with Watchmen anyways?
Tulsa is a city.
It's not anymore random than New York.
I for one am tired of everything taking place in New York or LA.
America is a big place.
@@smash_adams My issue is that Tulsa is in no way relevant to anything about Watchmen. The show itself establishes that the sole reason Tulsa is the setting is because it was supposedly the place where "Black Wall Street" existed and was destroyed. That's ostensibly a REAL WORLD event, not one that's exclusively part of the narrative of the alternate history Alan Moore established. It's not like "Black Wall Street" was different because Dr. Manhattan existed or something, like Vietnam was, that's another thing.
@@samgreenblatt7074 That's my main problem with the HBO show. The writer basically came up with an original idea a superhero story, but instead of pitching it as his own thing, he had to cram it into the world of Watchmen and present it as a sequel. But it doesn't expand on the themes of Watchmen, it has it's own unrelated themes, with new characters in a new location. It's clearly only called Watchmen because the name recognition would guarantee viewers.
@@STNKbone Believe it or not, apparently even Lindelof himself agrees with you. I saw more than a few interviews when the show started where he admits he wanted to tell a story about racism due to it being "the most important issue in America right now" and stops just short of admitting to using the Watchmen IP as his proverbial carrot on the stick. It's quite sickeningly transparent just how far he put the desire to make a show about present-day tensions between black and white people ahead of the desire to make a show about, y'know, Watchmen.
Now, I firmly believe that Watchmen isn't something that should have ever had any sequels or prequels to begin with, but if it were to have a proper sequel, written by Moore(assuming he hadn't yet fallen off like he has), who imo is the only guy in the world with the actual moral right to, I don't believe for a second that where any of the characters are 40 years later would look anything like the show. It doesn't feel authentic or even slightly recognizable, which is the biggest sign of propaganda wearing familiar IPs as skinsuits, at least to me.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a cope as big as when the 'official' narrative given was that the show had been a critical and commercial success that everyone was happy with but they just felt they didn't *need* to make another season of it. It totally wasn't cancelled you guys!
It was never meant to get another season. It was always intended to be a limited series
We need a new rule that if you hate watch something you have to pirate it.
This. I don't necessarily agree that you can't hate watch something (otherwise you're just gonna get people praising a show that doesn't deserve it), but you should definitely not hate support. It's the same thing w/ people sending superchats to people they hate, or buying things so they can burn it in the yard
I absolutely can't stand Alan Moore. He is fueled by delusions and hate just to fuel his creativity. The more I learn about him, the more I dispise him.
It’s weird that such a talented writer can come off as petty as he does
His 80's and 90's comics are some of the best ever made but he is a massive bitter prick who only got more up his own ass as his talent started to wane.
I thought it was hilarious when Grant Morrison came out and said something I'd noticed long ago: Alan Moore is *obsessed* with rape.