Disco Elysium: Politics and Hypocrisy
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2024
- It's time to talk about one of my favorite games, made by a dev team that would probably despise my guts. Regardless, it's super good.
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I solved the entire game as a supercop, became good friends with Kim, found the pigs, sobered up. it was very wholesome.
same
I think I did normal cop
Honestly, this whole game is really heartwarming when you redeem Harry. It’s just a story about a man finding meaning in life through bettering himself.
"The lead dev spent all his time preaching communism while doing no work himself." Sounds like a textbook communist to me.
The way this video engages with Kurvitz is laughable and demonstrably false. He exaggerated how much he contributed to the game (that he didn’t get to finish since he was removed before the Final Cut). That’s fair enough. Everything else is just untrue. The creator really likes to brush over the fact that everyone remaining who was working on the game was exorcised. Argo apparently doesn’t know what’s happening in a studio he worked at for years? That he has personal experience in? The documentary was a massive step towards the incoming conclusion of the lawsuit between Kurvitz and ZA/UM and everyone knows that it will be used as evidence in court. I’m hardly a communist but the creator brushes over the fact that ZA/UM heads used internal company resources to create, then buy up shares in their own company to increase their share and force Kurvitz out. Congratulation on the communism critique, but capitalism doesn’t seem to be too ethical either.
On his portrayal of Kurvitz; the only people who accused Kurvitz of any wrongdoing at the heads of ZA/UM. The woman who was used as an example of him being sexist said that claims were 100% untrue. It statements released recently, ZA/UM employees are talking about studio heads who enforced crunch, who were sexist to employees (in workplace culture and organisation). So it’s quite clear that Kurvitz was used as the scapegoat for these claims, and the fact that not a single person has backed up ZA/UM’s reasons for their dismissal of Kurvitz is further proof. Tulik is an easy source of statements on these topics.
When you look at the legal pressures put on Kurvitz, the way he was treated by the company (his own shares being illegally reduced) and compare that to the actions of ZA/UM’s heads it’s insane. He wrote almost the entire lore for the world. He’s been working on this universe for over a decade. Him being short with some designers and cocky is dick behaviour, sure, but lauded artists like Tarentinon have done far worse and are universally praised. Kurvitz’s own politics have been spun to make a “dramatic irony” out of the situation that simply doesn’t exist.
The complaints that he didn’t do enough work are especially egregious when not only did he make the world but he’s clearly an eccentric sort of artist who writes slowly. Not writing 24/7 is part of most writers creative process. Was he doing as much work as other writers? Yes. That’s true not only from his contributions to the world, but in his overall word count others have attributed to him. Was he working as HARD as ever other writer? No, and while he had excuses I think he could have done more, and he has since admitted the same. A lot of his time was going into plans for a sequel set in the same world, so while he was still doing plenty of work he could’ve contributed more to the game itself.
Comparing Kurvitz and ZA/UM is comparing someone who is a bit of a dick to a group who are straight up malicious.
And the way this creator engages with communism is maddening. Every corner of the political spectrum is satirised in this game, the centre most of all. Did they miss the most famous line in the game? I paraphrase; “complaining about other communists is one of the most important parts of communism”. This creator was so terrified of having his politics changed by the game he was completely oblivious to fact that it IS a critique of its own ideology.
If you played the game as most would, Harry gets a happy (enough) ending. If HE can overcome his struggles to make his life work, the rest of the human race could very feasibly strive to create a communist world that works. Or a capitalist one. Or anything better than what we have now. The game is about change and the individual who made this video seems absolutely terrified of it.
Apologies for the excessive comment but this comment section is devoid of people willing to engage with the game and its themes. If any one of them made a piece of art, they would scowl at the thought that people would engage with it in such a lazy and misinformed way.
tl;dr mentally ill Marxoid made mentally ill Marxoid game on the labor of others and got capped
Happy ending.
@@fmsyntheses Yes it is too long, yes, you didn’t read. Glad to see your critical thinking levels are improving. If you’ve even read the comment you’d see I agree with its critiques of communism. But for an echo chamber that joke was pretty good.
@@harrykirkham220homie, make your own comment if you’re gonna spend this much energy arguing to strangers. Nobody’s gonna give you the time you want in the replies to a comment made for a quick joke
@@mr.selyumor5402 Fair enough. As a like comment and top comment replying to it seemed the quickest way to see what people actually think about this game and how many of the people who watched this video have actually played/engaged with the game.
The studio getting bought by a billion dollar conglomerate and the lead getting committed to an asylum is the only thematically just end to the series.
Ain't that ironic
Kurvitz book actually ends with one of MC's throwing himself into the pale i think, so, yeah.
We truly live in a simulation
I'm sorry, what? What happened to Kurvitz?! I knew he was pissed about the buyout, but I thought that that was just standard corporate drama. Certainly ironic given his ideological persuasion, but getting committed...geez.
Yeah I’m gonna need a follow up on that asylum comment, I can’t find anything anywhere.
For me the perfect ending for Harry is him quitting his job and go out finding more mythical creatures like The Insulindian Phasmid, exploring the world and most importantly Henry finally having true happiness
In honor to the marxist creators of the game, I sailed the high seas, in order to give the game a try - I wouldn't want to offend them with my dirty money.
Good man
Why you need to pirate it?
It's OUR game.
@@cedricwine You're correct - we should all get some money of the back end ^^
Tell them the game is only worth four dirty potatoes
Giving money to communists is like giving steak to a vegan.
A thing I saw pointed out is that while you can run into people who deeply believe in communism, fascism, ultra-liberalism, etc., Harry taking up any of the political causes is something of a joke. And that makes sense: try as he might his core identity is washed up alcoholic, he doesn't genuinely seem to feel for any of these things, so instead he takes up this persona of what he thinks the ideal communist, fascist, ultra-liberal is.
A funny thing I will note, though, is that despite all this *he is super effective.* In just five to ten days he solves just about ever facet of a murder, and that's with using his discretion as he'd like to deal with everything surrounding it. The guy who got in his feelings going off about an ice-cop-hat-fuck-show in front of some poor drugged out girl on the sea ice is, unironically, one of the best detectives the RCM could have.
Man fuck the hat
I love Harry's explanation that he's a "highly experimental detective", because it actually checks out, man solved the case very effectively and Kim, who is clearly quite competent himself, regards you as genuinely brilliant by the end. At least he regarded me as such in my playthrough.
For me the game was mostly on how we try to rationalize something as simple as a lovebreak with something so insanely massive as a political ideology. In the mind of Harry, the ideology is simply the answer to why his girl dumped him:
-Liberalism: He was poor
-Moralism: He didn't value her opinions
-Communist: He didn't care about helping others beyond just arresting criminals
-Fascist: He was puny
Maybe this is a reach, but I wonder if there's also something to be said about the fact that since he's a cop, any attempt at relating to socialists or capitalists is just political theater. He could never fully support socialists because cops main purpose is to defend the property rights of the ruling class and he could never fully support capitalists because he benefits from socialist government policies like pay scales and healthcare (if cops in DE are anything like cops in the US), that capitalists want to abolish.
@@buntado6 For moralism, I'd say the rationalization was more "He wasn't 'normal' enough"
"I'd like to dedicate this award to my reformed Orthodox Rabbi, Karl Marx."
what about reformed orthodox Rabbi, Ted kaczynski? He was more correct
@@flamestoyershadowkill6400 That dude is getting more and more vindicated, with each passing year.
Schrodinger's Communist:
Was she one of the communists or was the in-fighting so bad she deliberately sabotaged the game's reputation?
@@arsenelupin9697 My man if you ever actually read into anything or his diaries you’d know he was just a psychopath in it to kill people, but I’m not going to pretend people online saying this shit actually read into this shit and are just in for the edge.
@@arsenelupin9697 what is it with people and worshiping self destructing losers who didn’t even believe his own hype?
My very first playthrough of Disco ended when I tried to punch a kid and the strain was too hard for my weak body and i died of a heart attack. 10/10
that's some space station 13 type of shit.
i hit on a woman fucked up so hard my character probably hung himself in embarassment... it was my first human interaction 10/10 game for sure
Mine died for sitting at the union leader office
@@nicbahtin4774 i have an ass of steel wasnt even a fuckin problem comfiest chair ive ever sat in ong
How much did the virtual dice hate you?!
The Soviets may have screwed over the creator of Tetris but at least he won in the end.
How did he win?
@@music79075 After 10 years the rights went back to him and he cofounded the Tetris company who've been the owner ever since (co-owned by that guy who got the rights for Nintendo), both families are millionaires because of it.
@@music79075it is beloved and hailed beyond its original release
@@music79075moved to texas and got ip rights
@@music79075Tetris exists the USSR does not
Rene is really good even outside of being a foil to the main culprit, and I'm glad you didn't skip his character.
I feel so bad for the dude, clearly struggling with PTSD. But he never gave up on life, he still played pentant with his childhood friend, despite all their bickering. RIP Rene.
@@1Sir-McKnightthe worst is uncovering his feelings towards his only companion, Gaston.
He's the very definition of "the worst thing you can do to your enemies is let them see you living well"
@kikrinman1450 I dont think it's that bad. The dude struggles with a lot of things and to an extent suppresses part of himself for the ideology he chose.
I wonder what he'd be like of the communards won. He was boiling piss for the suzerian
@@basitionhe would be dead. Either dieing fighting or in the first wave of purges
"The studio shut down and the lead developer is locked in an insane asylum."
Perfect time to buy the game.
You spelled pirate wrong.
@@Shatterstar What? At least pay money for quality no matter how the creator chose to live.
@@NebLleb The creators are no longer with the company, they will not see a dime of it. And I did buy the game before the team who made it pretty much was laid off. If I remember right, I bought the game after watching Uricksaladbar's video about Heavy Rain vs Disco Elysium.
@@NebLleb A shit-tier investor and owner of the company fired/replaced all the people who made the game effectivly gutting the soul of the company and the peopel who actually created the thing we all love.
The best quote for the situation is "Now that I've got the golden egg, and killed that pesky goose, all the money will come rolling in!". It's a damn shame the exact thing they were talking about it the game ended up happening to them.
@@NebLlebWrong
The game resonated with me a lot more because I am Estonian. The experience was like, wow that can totally be a allegory for Estonia and the ex Soviet type of thinking. environmental details of a bygone era like the damage from a old war or symbols and monuments for a regime best forgotten,it hit home. First time I played it I even didn't know it was made by Estonians. Only thanks to the credits I knew.
Very good game and one of the best reviews of the game I have seen thus far. Thank you
11:00 actually, the book "That Sacred and Terrible Air" is much older than Disco Elysium, what's new is it's translation to English. That was the first work Kurvitz wrote for the Elysium setting, but it basically sold nothing in Estonia. The faliure of that book sent Kurvitz into the depression and alcohol-and-drugs-fueled binge that would later inspire Harry's character.
A communist is a substance abuser and overall loser imagine my shock.
@@ivansmirnoff6987 People on the far end of the political spectrum usually suffer from mental illness, which does often lead to substance abuse. It's the logical outcome if you ask me.
I will never get over that hilarious real-life joke; of people leaving their faith, and their church. Only to unwittingly/unconsciously pool their starved sense of idealism and belief over something else. To turn politics into faith, to turn political idols into figures of worship. And that same, dogmatic lifestyle...it's like, then why the heck did you leave your faith in the first place?!
This why I feel the "theist" vs "atheist" debate is missing the real issue with religion. You can leave a religion and still maintain spiritual beliefs. But instead people discard their beliefs, yet are bound to what is functional a religion.
@@radiokunio3738 It's the difference between spirituality and organized religion; one can still hold spiritual beliefs, but the moment you get wrapped up in an organized religion based around those beliefs, it (and those that are part of it) turns zealous and dogmatic. It's not "theism vs. atheism" - as in belief vs. non-belief - but "theism vs. religion vs. atheism" - as in belief vs. _organized_ belief vs. non-theistic belief.
Simply put: a theist can believe without religion, and an atheist can hold beliefs without gods, but religion _cannot_ exist without its followers, which requires their belief in itself. Religion is a co-opting of belief, and it applies to _all_ forms of belief, be it theistic (a belief in gods/spirits/supernatural concepts, etc.) or atheistic (a belief in idols/philosophies/forms of government, etc.). Communism, by its very nature, is a textbook religion; a belief in its system of governance, for its own sake, to the exclusion of all other systems, in spite of its diametric opposition to reality and human nature.
@@Armameteus I let a theistic bias came out in referring only to "spiritual beliefs". Beliefs are not always inherently spiritual, to my knowledge most tao and buddhist beliefs are comparable to christian deism, at least in the sense that belief is irrespective of theistism or atheism.
@@ArmameteusWell to be fair, there is room for individualism within religion. Many people now practice religion without going along with the zealots or draw firm line between them and the zealots. Zealots arise when people put their religion as a personality trait (imo) so a lack of adherence is seen as blasphemy.
@@thecod2345 I mean look at how many sects of Christian there are, granted some are declared as heretic but most are generally accepted into the fold
Union leader sounds like Linkara...but fatter...
How could you do this to me.
The Lightbringer is helping me find my lost green m&m's
@@Kwality62it still blows my mind Linkara and Tucker Carlson both have the same taste in candy
Wait until you find out his response to Harry telling him he's an UltraLiberal.
@@runningcommentary2125
"MY PLAN HAS NO SAID SCHEDULE, IT'S DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!" xD
I grew up in a post-soviet country. And disco elysium was that one game that described living in such a country very VERY well. I noticed a lot of people who criticize or praise the game don't really get it. And that's understandable, since they can't get it, they never experienced living in a post soviet hellhole. They don't understand how it feels to see once a big and very flawed country disappearing overnight, all its shaky systems built upon fear destroyed, multiple bloody revolutions everywhere, people deaths, leaving wounds on society that never heal. They never saw how everything collapses, education going to shitter, corruption spreading, populace either not caring or can't do anything. And this hell never really ends, we can only pretend it's over after 30 years, but the damage is already done. The system gave birth to multiple totalitarian shitholes with no future.
Revachol is an amazing example of such a failed state. Political activism in any form is not welcome there, you might think the establishment is on your side, but it isn't. Democracy, capitalism, communism - those are just words, silly concepts to fool simple folk like their opinions worth something. The only language that works and gets you places is money, hence corruption on every level imaginable.
I always disliked how people see Disco Elysium as some commie propaganda when it wasn't.
Now, I don't know if it was the authors' intention or wasn't, but they nailed the feeling of this dread very well, and I never felt like they say "this particular political movement works, you should follow it". And the game was honestly fun. Didn't even know their company ended up where it ended. And that's kinda sad, but also ironically fitting with the game's themes.
Living in a post-Soviet hellhole, huh? I understand that. But something about it just didn't feel right.
You're talking about a big and very flawed country disappearing overnight, with systems built on fear being destroyed, but with them - education going to shit, corruption spreading, the population either not caring or not being able to do anything...
So if something is going to go to shitter - it has to be better in the first place, right? So it was better in some ways before, while the Soviet was active.
And after that, after the crushing of the Soviet ideology, why didn't it change for good even after 40 years, if communism was the main problem for all of it?
In the end, I agree that DE didn't say which political movement is better, nor did they portray communism by any good. But I also don't think that some of the ideas of communism are bad, like free education for everyone, free medicine, stable prices and general idea of peace for everyone.
@@aldecotan all these ideas do sound good on paper. But making them actually work is hard, almost impossible. Especially so here in eastern-europian/asian countries with plethora of our own problems like specific mentality, for example. They did it, more like forced it (with casualties and everything), but it worked for generations. Generations who didn't know how non-communist society function, most of whom were living in fear or very high on ideology. Obviously when everything crashed and burned the absolute majority didn't know what to do hence the collapse into the dark 90s: multiple wars, revolutions, dictatorships rising, corruption e.t.c.
@Ostrava_Of_Boletaria
The road to hell may be paved with good intentions but so is the road to heaven.
@Ostrava_Of_Boletaria
Maybe you desire a some kind selfish competition in which you may imagine yourself on top. But I don't.
As someone living in a socialist country that seems to be holding up out of sheer stubornness, it is very interesting to see accounts of people living in the post-soviet countries. I wonder if my country will end up like that during my lifetime.
You do realize you're the reason sparta punted babes off the cliff correct? *Sometimes you people are so easily recognizable that a society never even has to interact with you. We just know who you are, and your mannerisms. So please, keep talking and speaking and gesturing. We appreciate it.*
@@gymbmymb3465 You don't care about the morality of others-- you just want an excuse to abuse others, and you use vaguely and arbitrarily defined "morality" to do so. It's why you appeal to "a higher level of morality" and not any of the uses and benefits of such.
Dross really is the worst parts of the human condition made into one man…
Look carefully at that word. Dross. Noun. Waste or impure matter.
Methinks the name was deliberate.
@@Harley_Mitchelly I wondered about that myself…
@@Harley_Mitchellythank you, Encyclopedia and Dramatics Check.
@@martinmortyry7444 Hooray for inadvertent joke that totally works now that someone's pointed that out!
@@Harley_Mitchelly Sorry. I'm so sorry, for everything.
Harry feed the deep fryer the bag of ice
LET HIM COOK
*[SOUND OF DICE ROLLING, SOUND OF SOMETHING BREAKING]*
Empathy "Really Harry, will you let him starve to death? Give him a warriors end."
@@admiralpepper6933 nice pfp
That whole infra-materialism plot point is hilarious if you know about lysenkoism.
Sounds like something from a self-help book.
Yea no eastern European unironicly will pick commie path
@@ZX-Gear Pretty much, but mercifully most self-help authors don't have a willing ear in the government to make their crackpot ideas actual policy.
@@ZX-Gear - Exactly, but imagine some self-help guru who never had any success outside of selling their books about "self-worth" was put in charge of all farming and everyone who didn't follow their methods to the letter was shot.... Also the methods involved maximizing the "self-worth" of the plants themselves. This literally happened in history.
Harry is a true super star girlboss and the world will respect his authority
Played as a moralist, law jawed, cop of the apocalypse, with stats put in everything but intelligence. It was very interesting playthourgh, Harry could basically read people like a book and then open them up like a can opener despite not being book smart, was a ace shot, so good at his job he was able to save the most lives, did believe in the church's religion or at least showed due reverance (which changed the dialogue for that final dream sequence adding context to why he saw his exwife like that) and tried to stop the Pale from growing, only to step back because he had a job to do, treated people fairly despite his utter hatred of commies, which left Evert up a creek without a paddle when he did everything you can to be a utter thorn in his side (Letting the Hardie Boys live is indeed the better option for that outcome) and finally despite being so alone before he was able to reconnect with the outside world, completely get off the drugs and booze, find new friends and possibly a new love interest. The game is brilliant and I do wish it would it got that expansion and sequel but sadly the vocal crazy minority that calls themselves the game's main fanbase and mistreatment of the real people who worked on the game, while that commie took all the credit saw to it that will never come to be.
The main devs that made the game had long since left. There was never going to be a Disco Elysium 2.
I did something similar, except I went way more John Hartigan than Joe Friday. Shivers, Visual Calculus, Perception. Every character interaction was basically "just the facts, ma'am". Avoided political leanings, vices, just tried to be professional. In the end it was nice to see Kim describe the character I played as worthy of wearing the badge.
I did not realize how...delusional some of the fans are about this game until I had a convo with one. It was the "this is a communist game" position, which is entirely different than what I experienced. The game is just about morality in general, it's apparent that Kim is the voice of reason, he is very nuanced and not overtly opinionated. But that's just communists being communists I guess, they always think their beliefs transcend politics when they really don't.
One of the messages in this game is basically "Don't make politics your whole personality or a way to cope a tragic event in your life"
Looks like the creators didn't follow that message.
@@ng8952 Fucking, DUH. Horowitz acknowledges they are all a little screwy in the head from Communist propaganda. He says "I wouldn't be a good little Communist if i didn't have a Lenin bust on my Desk, would i?"
So this was an actually diverse writting team with commies and different types of "anti-commies". Makes sense since the team is Estonian. Estonia used to be communist, but after the fall of the USSR, they became the most libertarian of the baltic states, maybe even of all eastern europe.
And it worked out for them for the most part. Aside from the cold, Estonia is one of the best European countries at the moment.
Yeah it’s cause news flash just cause your a leftist or communist doesn’t mean you have to like the ussr or any other communist country
@@thankfullydaniel4212Yeah it always kinda surprises me that Kurvitz (and some others from DE team) are communists knowing that Estonia is one of the most successful post-communist states that went hard into free market and succeeded better than most. Then again, he did write a book which completely failed in the market so I guess it makes sense he is bitter.
Was succesful*
Now we have fake "right wing" parties that have completely swapped out with actually left wing people who tax us to high hell. Even taxes get taxes and up to multiple times on specific ones, its actually quite socialist now.
I really Wonder what actually libertarian and conservative parties would do (the ones who like Trump. Our media is 99% bought off by BBC and CNN considering they kind of work togheter. People are becoming more right wing here but against the parties)
@@8Paul7
You do know that the desire for communism grows out of capitalism, right?
That cryptozoologist mission line was the best. Like the entire game i thought it was just a joke i played just to get xps. Then it actually happens at the end with like my favorite character Kuno.
Nobody fucks with Cuno!!!!
I made him a junior detective. Love the police chief afterwards too. Kidnapping a child and taking him to some island.@@ZX-Gear
Loli doing the full Rust Cohle/Dale Cooper routine with Harry just makes sense. Not sure if you caught it, but Inland Empire is also a nod to David Lynch.
Also, Fat Angus isn't Titus' brother, although he does have a brother who's mentioned to be a window repairman. He's the guy who replaced the broken window in the hostel.
Angus is his brother too. It confused me at first too. Angus is the youngest, but yeah their other brother is the window repair guy we never see.
@@TheAlmightyLoliis that so? I guess what you've said about experiencing things in different playthroughs is true, because I've gone through the game like six times without finding this fact out.
I generally like most of the Hardie Boys actually, especially Angus. It's a shame he's always a casuality in the Tribunal. Most of them are alright people I think, even Titus himself, they just fell for Evrart's bullshit hook, line and sinker. Breaking bread with Titus and possibly convincing him to work with you at the RCM is probably one of my favorite scenes you can have with him.
we all have to thank Shota for forcing loli on gunpoint and forcing him to play Disco elysium
Props to shota, even if he choked the victory royale during the fortnite stream :P
@IJustWannaFarm and fumbled that latina tomboy DBZ fan.
@kyon813 Oh dayum.......
@@ZX-Gear We will _never_ let him live that down.
@@kyon813 Hold tf on, when did this happen lmfao. was it on stream 😂
I never met those two students. I honestly couldn't care less about the politics in this game during my playthrough. My main goal was to fix Harry. That's still all that matters to me. I just want to see this man contempt and thriving
The most based Disco Elysium fan
This is impossible. Normal people do not play Disco Elysium
Same man went through as a sorry cop avoided drugs and drink, smoked once for a check to save my life and saved as many people as I could
@@2460-1Normal people are too stupid for their own good.
Its content btw
luv me disco, luv me Kim, luv me voices, 'ate commies
Simple as.
Rene isn't a representation of fascism, he's a representation of the "old" politics - aristocracy, monarchism, etc. He is a living fossil of a time and ideology that is long gone, which is one of the reasons he's so "chill" despite his regrets. There is simply nothing left in the world for him anymore. Everything he ever believed in was gone and forgotten which brings to him some closure. This is in comparison to the fascists and communists ironically *united* in their struggle against the Liberal Moralists (the game points out both side's collaborationists tendencies, as you noted).
I haven't played the game. Are there any conservative representatives or paths, etc?
But free market is liberal, conservativism is usually protectionist?@Ostrava_Of_Boletaria
He is a perfect foil to Dros in that regard. Rene fought the hardest he could for what he believed in, but even though he _won_ the war, his world still naturally passed away. Because of this, he is at peace with the result and while he doesn't agree with them, he understands why the new generation moved on and doesn't hold a grudge. Meanwhile Dros didn't fight and instead ran away like a coward during his first and only battle, the same kind of behavior he was supposed to prevent in his soldiers. He then spent 40 years stewing in resentment, of himself for his cowardice, and of the world for moving on while he could not.
@@Alfred5555 Yes, the Liberals, Moralists and Fascists are the conservatives.
How are those conservatives exactly?
Liberalism is literally the opposite thing. Fascism is a type of government not a philosophy. And Moralists I suppose sounds conservative, but it depends what their morals are. @@therideneverends1697
“Communists can’t even boil water correctly.” Is a fucking roast holy shit.
They can't boil water and now all of us have to suffer because of them.
Well, the USSR, country with like 40% of population being farmers and owning the best and the most fertile lands in Europe (like Ukraine) managed to starve almost every year from 1917 to 1956, when Nikita Khrushchev for the first time allowed import of grain, some of it even from the USA(!). And even after that, food supply was still a major, major issue until the USSR collapsed. In a massive, natural resources-rich country. Communism doesn't work because it's an ideology of lazy, corrupt, criminal fuckups.
@@UnknownOps Sadly, they seem to boil frogs just fine.
Argo’s recent tweet genuinely feels like it was made solely to address the recent comments attacking the documentary, not only blaming it for the studio’s downfall but it was “fake” and “aged like milk”
In reality, it only makes said commenters more out of touch with the very devs they claim to be their “comrades.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs made the communists insane to spite Kurvitz, and he was so delusional that he thought the communists looked good
Also Dros literally exhibiting “incel behaviour” but being praised by people who call those they disagree with “chuds” reaaaally speaks a lot
Yeah, Dros sounded like Ted Kazcynski, bitter, spiteful, and full of hatred for everybody, just somebody who was stuck in the past, especially when you look into his life.
@@UnknownOpsand of course there’s people here praising him with no hint of irony.
@@bsims4126 why do people praise kazyncki he was some crazy hermit who killed people.
Are there any real people (read: non-Twitter users) praising dros?
@@wilsonsilva2918 His speech has been immortalised. Especially the bulldoze analogy, and the whole "mask of capital".
On my playthrough of the game, I played a sober cop who was logically gifted. It was very fun to see Harry get his life back together and solve the case using his intellegence to solve the case.
It was funny to see Harry's knowledge on random facts actually hampering the case in some cases. Very often, Encyclopedia gives actively not useful facts and rhetoric and drama making stuff up to support an ideology or to make things more dramatic than they actually were. I like that the skills act as additional party members. The more you level up the skills, the more they get to interact with your choices. I really think that more rpg games should make this the standard.
It makes it so that skills add to the experience and give you more information whilst also occasionally throwing a wrench into things for flavor. Its a really good game. Even if some of the creators themselves are dumb or hold bad ideas.
Regrettably this seems to be where the crowd you hang in can dictate your view of this.
I myself don't run in deeply political groups, so I came pretty fresh into Disco Elysium knowing it was just very well written, and by the end I didn't get the impression it was advocating for communism.
But if you hang around the 4Chan crowd, as the guy on this video stated, all you'll hear is about how Disco Elysium is commie propaganda made by communists. . . Then, as you can see with this video, he played the game and saw, like you and I, it was kinda just authentic even in it's outlandishness.
Real case of the creators themselves have compartmentalized things to focus on making a good game first, not just using the game as a vehicle for what ideals they do or don't have.
When I told my husband I bought this game recently, he asked if it was charged to my PH account and on sale because he didn't want the devs to be supported.
Shit Dros is a permanent Twitter resident
funny thing is that there is a e-celeb in the hispanic internet sphere called dross, he is kind of like dros but instead of a commie he's a lolbert
@@mirror8519a lolbert?
Disco Elysium is the new Starship Troopers for Media Discourse.
Nobody knows what they fuck they are talking about and it ignores what happens in it.
Underrated comment
Especially this guy. Its worse then the skillup video ☠️. Check out Noah Caldwells, he does a very well written video talking about the various aspects of the game unibiasedly and intelligently without completing missing the point of the entire game
Humans are bad at objectivity. We usually just bend reality around our pre-constructed worldview. It's natural most people do it.
A case needs to be solved that involves a massive conspiracy involving many groups that are a part of it.
Disco Elysium: **words, words, and more words.**
Max Payne 3: "Guns, lots of guns."
Love them both.
Who goes into this game under the illusion it’s got combat?
Max Payne 3 sucks.
@@NebLleb Yeah kinda.
_Isaac Asimov has entered the chat_
You and Shota kicked my ass into playing this game a year and some change ago. I still am very satisfied with the decision to listen to you guys and go through a proper couple of playthroughs of this magical, lightning-in-a-bottle game. So thanks funny Berserk man.
Finally a substantive video on this game. For some reason, anytime someone from the "media literacy" crowd talks about this game all the media literacy leaves their body
That's what happens when they talk about any media, though.
Your analysis of Evrart and Titus was perfect, yet so rare. I don't know why, but every single analysis of Evrart on the internet is the same "No! He's actually a wise and capable Revacholian hero, because one of my 24 skills said he believes in something he once said, probably".
Evrart is basically European Linkara.
I'd go midway between them. Titus is a bragging, hotheaded idiot but that's partially because the Union's culture means that is what you need to do in order to keep some semblance of order near the Docks and keep the Drug Pushers (that the Union helped enable) out, and because Evrart is intentionally pushing him into what Evrart thinks Titus is good for: an expendable mid level midwit leader who can be a decent organizer, inspiration, and more amiable public face while alive and a brave revolutionary martyr when dead. I mostly felt pity for him. In another life he could've been a brilliant RCM Captain but he is now being trailed along by Evrart to be a sacrificial lamb, a disposable lieutenant.
Evrart on the other hand is nowhere near the utterly shameless and completely greedy mook he presents himself to be and is clever and relatively intelligent, but he lacks WISDOM. He and his brother are fat salmons in a puddle dealing with probably the most benign and outwardly moral/ethical entity in the setting (Wild Pines, corrupt and self-interested as it is and tied into mercenary death squads, at least is pragmatic and has some people on its board with sentimental and pragmatic reasons to avoid bloodshed). That makes Evrart think he can launch a new Revacholian Revolution and be the new Kras, while largely ignoring the questions of if he SHOULD or what would happen even if he succeeded given the horror show that the Commune was.
And while he's also nowhere near as selfish and completely devoid of principles or morals as he presents himself at first, he certainly IS Selfish. I have no doubt he views himself as being the Main Protagonist of the Story or at least the Wise Mentor Figure of the story, a Kras Mazov come again (while ignoring how Kras Mazov in addition to being Literally NatBol Hitler did not bring the Commune ultimate success). He seems addicted to power and manipulation, and part of him seems to WANT power and control, whether or not he thinks so or he consciously knows it. And of course he is a hateful, spiteful mofo in the abstract even if he isn't quite so in detail. And he also doesn't seem to use those he values as "disposable" well, like how he misuses and manipulates Titus. He would not really be able to do what Harry can do with Kuno.
All while completely ignoring Moralintern would crush the Union like a bug. To be fair, Evrart seems to know some of this (it's one reason he doesn't move much and works to stay guarded while biding his time; it might also be why we never see his brother, so that only one of them is exposed at a time), but he really underestimates Moralintern's capacity to act when they believe the situation truly warrants it (like they do with the Pale in the Church and like they did once to squelch the Communists). It's honestly a small act of mercy they haven't stepped in to paint Martinaise or at least Evrart's office with his blood, given how devastating three rogue, leaderless PMC War Criminals can be without help from the actual Main Characters of the story.
They do not.
My favorite thing about cosplaying as Harry is that all the people who recognize me assume that I'm a fellow commie and that capitalism is what killed the devs. I don't have the heart to tell them that I did a fascist run.
Based D4n0w4r response.
Hahah lmao
🤣
Why are you proud of that like 💀 keep it to yourself dude
If I happened to meet a commie fan of Disco Elysium IRL, I'd like to ask their opinion about the 60 000 Estonians that were killed or departed between 1939 Soviet annexation and Operation Barbarossa.
People only hate the millionaires but they have no problems letting some millionaires have power over them this is why you don't listen to hypocritical people
Everyone's a hypocrite, though. Look at the sheer number of conservatives who screech about the elites, celebrities, etc...until an elite celebrity like Elon Musk says the things they agree with lmao.
@@hihihi1q23 calm down, there is something worse than hypocrisy and that's the mother of all political issues: greed and ignorance
@@hihihi1q23 Which god do you pray to boy
@@hihihi1q23 oooo a whataboutism. haven't seen those in a while.
@@spooky-scarecrow The original comment is a whataboutism tho? "So you say you dislike millionaires? *What about* those others millionaires you let have power over you? Curious." Point is, it's basically impossible to be 100% morally consistent on everything. We're hypocritical creatures. Best we can do is be aware of that and try to reach as much consistency as possible.
Quick clarification: Sacred and Terrible Air was published in 2013, While the game was published in 2019. However the book was only translated recently, it was not written and shoved into canon by Kurvitz later on. It was there since day one. Rest of the video is fine though from what I can tell.
this is too horrible of a misinformation and claim for me to even give a single shred of respect to this video. this is a simple wikipedia search. everyone and their dog know Kurvitz and his og gang were developing the world of Elysium for over a decade.
The whole Xenoblade 2 thing. I always see people saying it was bad and I felt like I was in the minority of really liking it. Almost convinced myself to not like the game.
We gotta keep bugging Kirsche to play that series.
Redditors are final discovering the channel
Yeah, you're right. There's a few basement dwellers roaming the comments.
Anyway...
They have to go back
Haha.
I thought I'd talk about the Facist playthrough in Disco Elysium a bit because I think it's an interesting counterpoint to your views on the Communist path, and secondly because there's hardly any let's plays of a fascist Harry, it being algorithm poison.
Now my first playthrough was full moralist sorry cop Harry, but my second was hardcore Dirty Harry, and what surprised me the most was how nuanced the fascist playthrough was, and how wonderfully the themes mirrored Harry's own self destructive obsession with Dora.
You see, where the Communards believe they can will a better world into being, the Moralists are cowards who talk a lot about a better world but don't do anything to change the status quo, and the Ultraliberals don't care and openly stripmine society, the idea of the Fascist path is this: it's over.
Once Revachol was great and glorious and perfect, but that world died. It died a long time ago, and then there was the horrors of the revolution, followed the humiliation of the Coalition, and now the slow descent in its present day.
There is no fertile ground for that world to suddenly spring back into being - by now it's been crushed under the weight of history, barely alive in living memory.
This is why the Fascist Thought doesn't give you bonuses when you say fascist things, and hurts you instead. The actual bonus is better stat modifiers when you drink heavily. Don't fool yourself. That world is over. Drink to help yourself deal with reality, if you can't accept it sober.
In the political vision quests introduced in the later update, the fascist one is about Harry's quest to "Turn Back Time".
Again, this path is a huge reflection of how Harry can't deal with the loss of his ex-wife, and this quest pulls no punches.
At one point you sit down with Rene and ask about how to go back to the past and save everything - defeat the Communards, restore the Monarchy, win the girl.
He flies off the handle and lays into you. The says you're an idiot, a fantasist, a fool. There was a time once when that could have happened, but that was a long time ago. Maybe he could have done better, maybe people should have done more, maybe they just needed to be a bit luckier, but none of that matters now. It's over. It's been over for a long, long time. Deal with it. You can't turn back the clock, you can't fix what was, and it's never going to be like it used to.
After that, and a few conversations with some other fellows you get the opportunity to shave your face and gain a weird grin, but that's all secondary in my opinion.
This path, although it's not very youtube friendly at times, is probably the healthiest path for Harry to go down, as it makes him deal with the fact that It's Over.
Yeah, it's all a bit fucked up because Harry is a collection of character defects masquerading as a human being, but that's to be expected.
Anyway, that's my piece, as there's not much information about the Fascist playthrough out there, and I found it surprisingly sophisticated at times, though it is very heavy handed at parts saying that "racism bad", overall it's at least an interesting depiction to contrast with the rest.
Also, I'm an unabashed Jean Vicquemare apologist. Harry is a drunk, junkie piece of shit that spends more time looking into defunct game companies than actually solving the murder. You've been like this for years and he's had enough of your shit so when you tell him to fuck off he finally leaves, only to turn up the next day to see if you're in as bad a shape as he's heard, and from then he stays nearby and keeps his eyes on you. When you're out on the ice with Acele, a failed Authority check reveals that Jean is watching you from the shore with binoculars. Also you can talk to him in Whirling-in-Rags about development on the case and he'll give you small guidance and restore your mental health bar. And although he leaves before you find Ruby, (but leaves the shrink behind to observe you) and so misses the tribunal, afterwards when he hears you are awake, the heads over except you've already headed to the island.
Jean Vicquemare propaganda aside, good video even if it dwelled a bit too much on the communist stuff for my liking, but I guess some people have to be beaten over the head with the message before they get it.
I had the same experience about what you said. I watched the video after not playing the game ever.
I tried to play it a few years ago but the whole lucky random numbers made me angry.
This time I let it go, played a full game and thought about most of the things this video speaks and what you said. It was too funny when the fascism path opened, it was a total 'bad' path. They truly put it on your face that it was bad...
But the 'fascists' you meet, are very broken and mostly sad people. They don't say it aloud and just like referred in your writing, they know it's over.
It's the melancholy of the past... And I am 100% onto what you said about Harry's partner. Maybe Harry does a full 180 of his life after the game, but until then, he wasn't worth it.
Fascism is my 2nd favorite political quest. I agree that it feels the most important and impactful when it comes to the player's personal life, getting over his lost love. Also I love Jean Vicquemare, too many people hate him...
Im glad Saul is a recurring character.
Only two guys in the room always have your back, no matter what. Volition and Kim are the GOAT
Also the Saul Gman AI is concerningly accurate
As someone who’s definitely left leaning, appreciate your deconstruction of the union and the fanatic aspects of the factions. Honestly the political stuff is bunk, Harry and Kim’s relationship (or lack thereof) was what the game should have been more about
Finally a reasonable DE fan
We did it guys, we found the sane one!
I first played this game when my mom died and I was drinking myself to death. Small Church in Saint Saens, I listened to on the way to her funeral. Helping Harry get himself together helped me do the same. It was never a strictly political game or a story about politics. It was about being at your lowest point and how you handle it. Rise above or wallow. Grow or blame. Close off or get to work.
Sunrise, Parabellum
My only complaint about the whole debacle of ZA/UM is that the management didnt do shit about the creators until they got their money.
You nailed it. Great summary, great analysis.
It's been a few years since I've played the game myself so it was nice to get a refresher on some details I forgot and some that I've missed.
The only thing I disagree with is that Rene is a fascist, despite the game calling him a fascho. He's a monarchist and imperialist, which isn't the same.
People think Dros is a cool character? He sounds like how solipsists on Twitter describe Incels.
His speech about Operation Deathblow is incredibely well done. Something you can only come up with after a lifetime of hate and regret.
I'm not sure I'd necessarily say a cool character, but he is an incredibly interesting and amazingly written character. If I had to give a crude comparison, the thing that comes to mind first is Tohru Adachi from Persona 4. Both have a similar incel way of thinking and hatred for themselves plus the world around them, although one is much less politically entrenched than the other.
I think he's cool in the sense that he is somehow still coping for decades and acting on that cope when all material conditions should have killed him I guess.
I think people in the modern day are starved for raw uncompromising conviction, even being spouted by a deserter seething in his isolation while also giving up on any resistance it’s still like staring at a fire.
Unfun times ahead. I think soon the people will soon start embracing whatever has the same zeal. Reminds me of a african saying related to, appropriately, fire.
@@InternetHydra Fun and glorious times ahead actually. Spineless fence sitters and apathetic grilling enjoyers need not apply.
The communist agriculture thing actually existed btw, its not based on the Holodomor but on Lysenko Trofim.
Don't China also try something similar and it went horribly wrong called the Big Leap Forward it's estimated about maybe 40 to 50 million Chinese laborers died listening to the ridiculous orders of the Chinese government.
@@mikecampos1193by making pig iron from random steel and killing sparrows so locusts would be unchallenged.
@@WhiskeyPatriot That sounds more like what Mao did.
Droz and the Communist students sound like they were written by someone who has known a lot of Communists, and either stopped being a Communist or never was one to begin with. Everything they say is (more or less, the wording is different) exactly what Communists believe. They genuinely, absolutely believe what Loli is saying about everyone needing to believe unendingly in the Communist system, because Man (collectively) is His own Creator (all capitalisations are necessary).
You know people can be self aware of the problems in their movement but still be in that movement? Every movement in the world is full of idiots, including the status quo.
@@dawn4383 If not for the fact that this is genuinely how Communists are.
@@dawn4383if you're aware of how awful your beliefs are why would you still believe them
@@thebuddah1253I mean, they aren't. Its just people can recognize they share a movement with zealous fools -- No matter where I've been on the political spectrum, most people, even those who agree, are ignorant jackasses politically.
@@dawn4383 The true believers don't have that kind of introspection. It's akin to a fundamentalist religious belief, wherein everything wrong is because of the blasphemers, the reactionaries, the counter-revolutionaries. And then moralising the concept of ends justify the means.
when I played the game, I was suicidal and wanted to end myself. It did help a bit because the mc was in a similar situation. In a way it made me feel less alone.
Stay strong, Bud.
I hope you're feeling better nowadays.
@@WhiskeyPatriotI love your compassion. Thanks.
@@tentacledood5784Yes, I do. I appreciate the concern. I changed my job, met new people. Doing changes in my life worked a lot.
Sorry to hear that man. How are you doing? Could I get an update on your mental health situation?
Cue the Shia clapping alone in the theater video. But for real great vid Loli.
I do find it interesting that the developers who support communism showed the willingness to criticize their own political belief and show its flaws in their game.😺
Because "real communism has never been tried"........
@@arsenelupin9697real communism, because communism has 12 different shades of it and none of them seems to work, AT ALL.
If memory serves the people of Revachol tried French Revolution - style socialism and suffered an economic depression. They went to war with the neighboring country for resources and were so badly defeated that they became a client state for that world's UN.
They poke a little fun at it but still obviously consider it "correct".
Playing at all right leaning will get you portrayed as a fascist racis woman hating cartoon while moralist and neolib are sellouts but play as a commie and your biggest flaw is simply idealism according to the game.
This is how commies see the world and themselves, everyone else is evil and they aren't petty spiteful busybodies like we all know them to be at worst they think themselves jus naive.
@@crazymcgee3604Wait… so if my history sensors are working correctly… I think I know what ideology is coming next lmao
I'm Estonian and I haven't heard or read about the controversies. I just bought the game at a discount when it was on sale and played it.
The writing was fantastic and I enjoyed it a lot. Though I will admit that it took me several tries to get to the end, because I couldn't decide which stats I wanted to keep, so I kept rerolling.
Later on, when I heard that it's a commie game that's pro communism or whatnot I just thought that it was dead wrong and the people saying it have no idea what they're talking about.
Spoilers, but at the end, the last commie soldier is the most loathsome, pathetic, radicalised incel loser, who got so indoctrinated that he decided to live in a swamp for decades, hating and avoiding the world, whilst fantasizing what it would be like to live among the people he desperately wants to hate. This is the most loyal of all the communists, the biggest loser in the world, a walking contradiction, next to which even the useless alcoholic schizo cop looks like Jesus. Ain't no way this game is pro commie, sorry.
"Reeeeeee the game depicts commies as humans capable of being pathetic, miserable and insane - there's no way it's pro commie reeeeeee"
@@VitaliyMilonov Nah the game depicts commies as they are pathetic, miserable and insane
@@VitaliyMilonov He literally praised the game for showing commies as pathetic losers. Only one sperging here is you for him enjoying it.
@@VitaliyMilonov What the fuck is wrong with you? You are an adult man-child crying about the way people view your favorite video game on the internet.
No, it's pro commie because intellectually honest people have the capability to critically examine their own beliefs. A concept foreign to the average rightoid
atta boy you finished it tonight
We making it with this one.
@@WhiskeyPatriot amen brother
Rubie calling u human can opener was like the best shit i ever witnessed and from their i started to working on forensics and trying to become a detective.
I remember watching Noah Caldwell-Gervais' review on this game and the way he talked about it made me think it was pretentious boring communist tripe. Then I watch your video and now I'm actually thinking about giving the game a chance. I can sort of see what you mean by how this game seems like a Rorschach test.
Yeah, Noah can make good videos, but sometimes his politics stick out like hair on a biscuit.
@@AkosKovacs.Author.Musician Namely his postal video
Wherever there is trouble, there is always a simp in the center of it.
Need videos like this for Persona. All of them. Counteract those video essays, Loli!
God I hated persona 4-5 especially video essays about them
personasa sucks ass now
This is a game that should be discussed with people who have different interpretations of it, I think it being talked about in one way like "Communism good" is such a bland and one dimensional way to look at it. You can Definitely see the game as that, but trying to force other people to see it like that is very toxic. I blame internet essays for trying to indoctrinate and tell people how to think, and that goes for the Persona games and they also try to do this with the Fallout games aswell.
i enjoyed the game and haven't heard anyone say its about "communism good", just that some of the devs considered themselves commies.
I do think that bled through into the script too with the writing being less critical of communism in comparison to the games other ideologies.
They are of course all exaggerated extremes but even in their basic descriptions in the political alignment communism described as noble and idealistic while the others are just evil (facist), insincere (moralist) and greedy (ultraliberal).
it doesn't detract from the game but is notable and imo worth making fun of.
@@Hates-handleit's just liberal twitter trying to claim it as "theres" again, the usual. The disco reddit is filled with them though, recommend not going on it or it'll put you in a bad mood.
I think underlining what a shitshow the world revolution and its aftermath was coincides with underlining how badly Harry's fucked up his own life -- to ask you at the end, are you going to accept the blackpill and see the stars go out, or will you turn away from the ruin and walk. It's borderline impossible to disentangle the political and personal thematics of this story
People who think that Iosef Dros is cool, are just typical Bunkerchan users, It's like looking in the mirror for them.
Dude is a literal cuck
God, meeting him was such a gut punch. I thought harry da bois was sad, and then this barely even there shell of a man washes up and drops SO MUCH dialogue in regards to a man so traumatized he isn’t merely unable to move on, but has this NEED to punish those that can.
At least in a playthrough harry can get his shit together and START to move on, Dros has literally locked himself in hell for 43 years.
Can’t imagine why anyone would think that’s “cool”. But it’s the internet, shouldn’t be surprised
@@Barely_Here You'd be surprised by the amount of severe brain damage among internet users.
Okay, fine. I'll finely play the "commie game", Loli.
Is it a commie game after all ? I've been avoiding it for that very reason. I don't mind some debate and conflict, but the internet has led me to believe that it is. I trust a loli viewer more than some two bit redditor though, that's for sure.
@@BurghezulDjentilom Watch until the spoiler warning which is roughly 16 minutes
@@dean_l33I checked out when the devs praised marx and engels. Me and my people have suffered enough under that horrible regime. Glad that you guys enjoyed it, but I cannot bring myself to.
@@BurghezulDjentilom I recomend at least till the spoiler warning as Loli adress the, imo well deserved, controversy around the game caused by the devs
@@dean_l33ok fair enough. It's sure to be more entertaining for me than the game itself.
Few people really focus on the spiritual angle of the game, but with the comparison between religion and communism here I should mention that Dros is literally(literally) the antichrist
Everything about him- every physical trait, every mental trait, every action he takes and the resulting impact on the world, everything about his place in the story and how you interact with him, every single describable aspect of his character that you can think of is the exact opposite of Dolores Dei- right down to the imperceptibly black lungs certainly hiding inside his body
The issue there is that if you have high Encyclopedia stat when interacting with the Dolores mural, you learn she committed mass genocide under her "Army of Humanity", and considering the term "humanity" and destroying an enemy other also appears in the Deserter's rhetoric, I suspect it's more likely a parallel between Dolores and Dros showing how such utter fanaticism leads to grinding other people under the boot, to losing one's own humanity, ironically, in service to your ideals.
@@somerandomrpgenthusiast8451 She committed genocide for the apparent good of the human race by leading an army
Dros could barely manage to pick off a few individuals for selfish/corrupt reasons after deserting an army that was being wiped out for its failures
@@Lazypackmule We're both making interpretations of the game, either or both of which may be wrong, but I'd personally argue the game draws parallels between Dros and Dolores due to their similar rhetoric, and regardless of the scale of their own individual actions they both caused human suffering due to ideological fanaticism. I also found your anti-christ comment strange, especially as Dolores is at best depicted as a morally ambiguous figure, this mysterious almost eldritch being whose personality and life are only told to us through a few pieces of lore, while we get a great deal of insight into Dros and his very human flaws.
@@somerandomrpgenthusiast8451 I'm merely commenting on what the game actually shows us
You even just helped validate what I was saying by pointing out another way they're presented as opposites
@@Lazypackmule The word "antichrist" tends to hold the connotations of a powerful evil figure that will bring about the end times. You are correct in that this somewhat applies to Dros, though the game leaves it ambiguous whether his murder motivated by mere sexual jealousy ironically triggered the revolution he so craved (and undoubtedly not in the form he expected, considering the ending implies the RCM will launch a rebellion to restore Revachol's independence rather than the communists), and I don't think the anti-christ connotations work when the game depicts the Coalition rule as dreadful for Revachol, so it's more a case of a spite ridden man unintentionally throwing a match onto a pyre other people built and maybe triggering positive change in the world rather than an evil agent sent to trigger the apocalypse.
Don't forget kids - You can separate the art from the artist. Usually.
If they despise you then you're in good company.
10000%
Not true: there's nothing a communist hates more than a different kind of communist.
Tell that to Jeffrey Epstein
Tell that to every corporation ever lmao
@@ricardoramos4514 Oh no, they love corporations! While they tow the line, of course.
It definitely sounds like the "squid game effect" yknow... the nain guy said it was a whole critique on capitalism... just to have themes of the opposite. And a bunch of retorts to such.
Seems like you gotta actually extrapalate to see the actual dread thats happening
It's less of an endorsement of communism but more like a broken reflection/contemplation of a post communist world.
The idealism burned out into cold reality.
Disco is an allegory for communism I think.
The upside down star burned out long ago, and the deer are feasting on its bones.
Minor correction, "A Sacred and Terrible Air," actually came out BEFORE Disco Elysium was even an idea.
Overall good video though.
I regret to say that I was one of those "I refuse to play the commie game" types of people, but you convinced me to give it a chance after you streamed it about a year ago. I'm glad I gave it a shot because it was a great game that I loved the whole way through, I even convinced my irl friends to play it. Hopefully this video will get others to do the same.
"Commie game" yeah super Commie. It's outright makes fun of communism saying it doesn't work and never would; then gives you the option to try and fail anyways. I think there's a narrowly small chance you do revive communism but it would've been real communism; where it actually benefitted everyone. I promise the game is super worth it; no game has given me emotional whiplash like disco elysium, I can both laugh and cry in the span of 10 minutes.
@@Greendawn-di3dl I already played it, so I know now, but I didn't until a year ago when Loli recommended it and that all the "commie good" stuff was just cope.
@@Greendawn-di3dl Yeah the writing is pretty spot-on about the pitfalls of various economic systems and political ideologies, not just capitalism but also communism. The only thing I think they cheaped out on and over-simplified was fascism, which only ever really equated to "authoritarian and woman hater". It seemed like they weren't willing to give it a fair critique like the others and instead just dismissed it.
@@Gannoh it makes racism seem like a viable avenue; the game loves to throw norms on its head. It can make the most altruistic thing seem evil, and the most heinous thing angelic. I'll admit I'm tired of modern chiding of socioeconomic values; but disco does it right. Not by just making fun of a player for wanting to be communist; but jokingly prodding the player and making them live out communism and how it would go if you tried it in modernity.
@@Greendawn-di3dl "Real communism" LOL, as opposed to fake communism
I took your advice and watched the People Make Games documentary. It was very well researched, but dear God I wish I could unsee that comment section.
I'd forgotten how obnoxious Disco Elysium fans can be.
It was pure unwashed Reddit.
Disco Elysium has one of the most monumentally retarded fanbases ever, entirely because they're morons who think communism has any potential to work despite countless decades of evidence showing it's detrimentally counter to basic human nature.
@@Mariodash23 The biggest issue I have with communism, as far as I've come to understand it, is that it proposes an eschaton that doesn't in any way take into account human shortcomings and vice.
@@seg162Human nature is the x factor that Marxism never tries to address, except in one way: anyone who doesn't buy into the cause, for any reason, needs to be forced to buy in or excised from society to maintain ideological purity. Marx himself stated in the CM that anything up to and including murder was permissible if it achieved the end goal.
When one of the two minds behind the ideology you subscribe to justifies murder for ideological purity and a *shot* at success, your ideology sucks. End of discussion.
The IP being lost to corporate greed is just the natural thematic ending to this story. Love it.
Dude I fucking love Kim. And Harry. Both are the every man that if you play the game for the best outcomes which let’s be honest we regularly do, they are the individual struggling with being an individual but manage to come out on top of all this stupid shit with politics
All hail the fazmid the good innocent stick bug praise the criptied
He is just a lost little boy bug enjoying life.
The Chad Rene vs the virgin dros.
1:27:04 amen brother, the amount of people that do Naoto and Kanji dirty , would love to eventually see your take on the game
All of the voices are right, but also all the voices are wrong.
The bird never went extinct.
🎩
🐍 no step on snek!🇭🇰🇺🇸
@@CatisFinetoo
Yee. 🫵
@@CatisFinetoo The squeeky romainian? Vee tv?
Except Inland Empire, which is like yours truly.
@@dean_l33yo yo another Vee fan?
What does no step on snake mean? I keep seeing it from time to time but i dont know what its referencing
as a serb who constantly hears about stories of people being shot for saying something or knowing too much in yugoslavia i hate commies and hated everything about disco elyisum after watching the video and playing it i love the game and lt kitsuragi is my favorite character seeing harry solve the case and become an individual in the ending was great but looking at other playthroughs its so depressing to see harry stop being him the crazy nature of him is gone just an ideology
I remember watching a stream highlight of you talking about this one and being really interested. Happy to see you've made a dedicated video on it.
This game and the story behind it is just a perfect microcosm of the absolute brainroting politics of the 2020's
Is it just me, or are much of the comments under this video by people who havent watched the video all the way and are just trying to continue the arguments from the documentary.
No one is talking about your analysis of characters like Dros and the Hardies, or how cool the contrast between Dros and Renée is. Instead its more people complaining about the back and forth between Kurvitz and the Corpos, or complaining about the Documentary some more rather than this video which is over half being just Loli's own observations and interpretations of the themes
the only thing i know about this game is that GIVE PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENICS GUNS
I LEIK STIKBUG
I like this video and I’m glad you made this video. I didn’t do more than one playthrough but now I’m thinking on doing it again just to see what I missed out on
I interpreted the Deserter as one of the greatest critiques of the communist. Not communism, but the person who believes in that ideology in the modern day. The Deserter is bitter old man, angry that his ideology was destroyed and that he never got a chance to die in glorious battle. The Deserter only extols a few things about communist rule. That they rose up and fought against the bourgeoisie and that the Party legalized pederasty in '04.
No talk about the material improvements communism brought to Revachol, just that a lot of young people got to kill and die and that the proletariat could legally reenact Epstein's Island.
The Deserter exists as a violent voyeur, bitter that pretty much everyone has moved on from the past. He murdered people because he wants them to feel pain. He spied on Klaasje through his rifle and a hole in her wall, doing who knows what without her noticing.
I have seen comments of people that view the Deserter's anger in a positive manner, that they too feel that the dream of communism is dead and they are few remaining who fight for it. However, that dream died. It died in Disco Elysium after a failed revolution was crushed in a brutal retaliation with no marked change on human livelihoods. It died in our world after millions died for five year plans and command economies collapsed. All that are left are bitter, angry, sexually perverted ideologues whose only response to defeat is to dream of future violence.
The Deserter is a pathetic loser who refused to let go of a past he was never part of. The same holds true for the modern communist.
It's why I tell these people if they really believed in communism, to start a commune, they don't though, they just keep scarfing down McDonald's, yapping on twitter, oh and believe that pedophilia should be normalized because it's a minority stance
Two lore mistakes I've noticed. They don't affect the larger arguments though.
42:00
"He knows he is a target. He knows Moralintern is watching him"
Not entirely true. If you try to rat out Klaasje to the Sunday Friend but packpedal in the final moment and say that Evrart needs to be arrested, the Sunday Friend will reveal that Moralintern can't do anything about him. Moreover it is revealed that Claire travels to Safre(which is on another isola), where he negotiates the drug trade.
1:14:41
"Dros tried to teach him[Evrart] communist doctrine"
Not him. If you pass some passive checks you realise that it was Edgar, who visited Dros. Edgar is Evrart's brother. Unlike Evrart, who is very pragmatic in his leftism, Edgar was described as a more straightforward leftist, a social democrat with a strong Mazovian influence. With a degree in humaties studies or smth. Although it is still a possibility that Edgar is prone to ideologival sweettalk, just like Evrart with Harry. Dros also says that Edgar is much smarter than Evrart.
Having played the game first (before it was even fully voice acted), I was actually super surprised to learn that there were committed communists on the writing team. The game's depiction of communism is, at its *most* favourable, a well-intentioned movement that will inevitably end in failure whenever it is tried, and people preaching communism are either hypocrites or bitter and weary old men. And there are many interpretations, including yours, which are much less favourable to the ideology.
There is no point to giving up. Only by continuingly trying to improve the world for you and your loved ones will you find hope.
The game definitely feels like the writers were brawling in between writing the script, as so many concepts seem completely at odds with each other. Personally, the biggest message to me was that political extremism is a poison and an addiction, used to cover up ones own flaws and problems. Harry can take drugs just as much as he can devote himself to a political ideology he barely understands. I always felt uncomfortable with just how much leniency people give the Deserter, a literal serial killer and borderline rapist, simply because he was a commie, but commies will excuse anything as we've learned with just how many bullshit excuses are given for Mao, Lenin, and Stalin.
Not just communists-- anybody that's severely ideologically possessed will do that. Not out of principle, but out of tribalism.
Having played the game myself, I did get the vibe that the game was simultaneously treating socialist extremists in often too good of a light at many points, and when not, providing a sortof morally-grey, detailed understanding, while providing only the most childish and surface-level mockery of racial hatred and neofascism. The latter of which came off as misunderstood for the true nature of the evils that misbegotten ideology permits in favor of lumping it into racism, xenophobia, and 'race-realism' so recklessly spewed by the NSDAP's leaders and other ignorant racialists of times past and present. It's for that reason moreso than a woman ignorantly touting a neet and his enabler for education on moral philosophy do I consider the game as distinctly left-biased.
It's, to put succinctly, given me the vibe that the developers are well-educated on and often subscribing to socialist ideology, while holding a very poor and closed-minded understanding of what drives both racialized nationalism and corporatism. Thus, the bias. It's a form of well-intentioned yet intentional ignorance; A dangerous lack of understanding paired against whitewashing.
To be as clear as possible, I don't believe the final content of the game is pro-communism or even necessarily pro-socialism, but that the developers had a clear and open bias that painted the final product a particular, not-inconsiderable shade.
I always thought that the Mega-Rich-Light-Bending was like that beacuse of Harrier's perception. Like he was genuinely bamboozled of how rich the guy is in contrast to himself. I'm quite confident there are some dialogues that point out that Kim does not see anything weird but just an ordinary guy instead
i wonder how many butthurts this video caused
Just sort comments by new snd you'll get an overview.
Mostly lefties and some right-wingers.
Or Estonias like me who don't like commies saying our dead family trees are "fake"
I think the game does a good job in not taking any sides and criticizing every side
Subbed to the channel for Beserk content (incredible btw), enjoyed random vids about Conan and Starship Troopers, and then this was timed perfectly for me, having impulse bought the game and finished day 1 (pausing the video to play as directed) and then watching some more of the video which matched my investigation. Great stuff - please do more interesting game videos like this 👍🏻
Im a superstar. Its the face of a superstar.
I think my favorite interpretation of this game was that while other RPG’s make you a demi-god by the finale, Disco Elyisum is a game where you’re barely in control of yourself. Harry can barely keep his composure. It’s great. I was waiting for this review. Great work, dude. Cheers.
"So there's this talking stick bug..."
Ok, I'll play the damn game...
As a smelly European, we have no idea how ballistics work.