Keep your speed up! How fast can you safely fly an approach?
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- When flying into larger airports, controllers will often ask you to keep your speed up to help sequence you in with faster traffic. Is doing so safe? How fast can you safely fly? In this video we'll explore some of the hazards of flying fast, and talk about how you could prepare to do it safely.
00:00 - Introduction
00:11 - Welcome to my channel
00:21 - Why would you be asked to keep your speed up?
00:46 - Example at SFO
02:01 - How do you know?
02:40 - Hazard 1: Everything happens faster
03:12 - Hazard 2: Higher descent rate
04:11 - Hazard 3: Using more runway
04:34 - estimating runway distance
07:09 - Hazard 4: Landing too fast, maybe porpoising
08:56 - Summary - Фільми й анімація
While that is probably subjective, you're pacing is perfect for an educational video. From the way you speak, to how you input examples or explanations. Such a well done video!
Thanks so much for the comment!
This video is the first time I hear the term "best FORWARD speed"!
Great video I had an approach like this happen to me and was nearly at full power due to headwinds are ground speed was only 80kts or so I ended up going missed but learned valuable lesson that if there’s a heavy behind me and closing to rapidly I’d take a lap in hold or pattern for spacing if possible
Yes I have. I flew a Fokker 50 into Heathrow and was asked to keep to my speed up. So I did. Then they asked me to SLOW UP. I’ve also been asked to reduce to minimum and I did. So, you’ve guessed it, I told to speed up. Had they asked I could have given a speed between 100 and 180 knots until 500’.
Nice explanation, new sub. Some airplanes are better at this than others. Cessnas like to float, some are very slippery, while others bleed off speed quickly, experimentation is key.
Good info. New sub
You should make the approach at the highest speed that you can safely select the first flap setting. At or near the final approach fix you should select the final planned flap speed. If you are not comfortable to fly with the big planes, then you should select other airports. If your flying a twin engine, ATC expects it is piloted by a professional. Small GA airplanes are not a good match at large airports.
Let’s think about this some more. Your clearance was best forward to AKMO(?) which I presume is the MM - this would be a standard ATC clearance. It’s at that point that you are expected to transition to your normal speed - which should plenty of room for your Cessna. Best Forward implies what is structurally and operationally safe for YOU. If that should be just 90kias no problem, just advise ATC so they can adjust accordingly, ….. don’t hang it out just to suit ATC or play like the big boys. Flying 140kt approach is poor headwork as your CXXX is likely to be very twitchy and you’re not proficient at those speeds. If you were to inadvertently touch down at that speed you might even exceed your max tire speed. I would reconsider that kind of practice.
Btw, (GrdSpd/2)x100 is a good approximation of required 3deg descent rate. Ex. (140kGS/2)x100 = 700fpm ROD
Yes I agree. However I think msot GA students are taught to be at 90 knots most of the approach in a Cessna. Cirrus teaches 120 until GS intercept and then 100 I believe. So they may not be used to flying fast even on the outer parts of the approach, which still presents hazards as I mention. ATC instruction may not always be that clear either, so if you have not practiced this nor heard the specific instruction, you would not necessarily know when to start slowing nor the implications of that decision. Thanks for the comment!
I fly a Cessna Caravan and flaps 10 can be put out at VNE.
Very helpful in slowing down, I’m sure. It helps in the 182! Much harder in the 172.
Sometimes ATC observes my Navion airplane cruising in at about 140-150 mph and assumes that I will be able to maintain some speed in the pattern. But I can't extend my gear or flaps until I've slowed to below 100 mph, and ideally final approach is 70 mph with touchdown at 55 mph. So sure, I've been forced to fly an approach faster to keep from being rear-ended by the guys behind me -- it's unnerving.
That is a great point. The Cessna 182 can start dropping flaps (or gear if an RG) at 140, so it's pretty easy to slow down. But other planes need a lot more space!
Not sure I follow this. The ATC wants you to maintain forward speed until FAF, but typically once you get to the FAF they expect you’ll fly a normal approach. Why would you be concerned about high airspeed on touchdown when you have plenty of time during the approach to get your airspeed down to normal approach speeds?
In the specific example I shared they said maintain speed until the FAF. They don’t always specify, and even VFR they sometimes ask for speed. If you’re going to fly an instrument or non-instrument approach faster than normal, you should know how long it takes to slow down and should plan to do so in order to mitigate the hazards of high speed over the runway.
Atc doesn't expect you to do 140kts all the way down. Either till FaF or before you land... You still have 5 miles to slow down. Also why would you deploy flaps in the flare.. You'll initially get lift and balloon. No offence, but the premise of your video and also demo is not something that should be emulated.
Would a slip be a way to quickly kill your airspeed?
I think a slip could help you dissipate energy, yes. But the moral of the story is really to give yourself time to slow down and have an idea how much time / distance that requires.
Nice video, and a good analysis....but he didn't say "Best Forward Speed to the numbers" He said "Best forward speed to AXMUL", the FAF. that's plenty of time to slow down and get on the glide path. No need to cross the numbers at 120KIA. (But a good job touching down). Your premise is false.
Thank you for your comment, but you misunderstood my premise. The premise is you need to know how fast you can safely fly, and when you need to slow down to land safely, depending on your skill and your airplane, and that you probably don't know that if you don't practice it under safe conditions. My exercise flying that fast to the numbers is to illustrate what happens if you do not slow down sufficiently. I apologize that was not clear to you.
@@FlyingLessons But again, ATC can't require you to do any speed inside of 5 miles, or the FAF (AIM4.4.12). Further 120+ knots is not a Stabilized Approach speed for a182. Crossing the numbers in an attempt to land at that speed is borderline unsafe.
Your premise was that the Controller says "Best Forward Speed" and that you are required to do so to touchdown. That is untrue.
@@HyperSpaceProphet Could you please tell me what part of the video you interpet me to say that you are required to fly best forward speed to touchdown? I explicitly say that not slowing down soon enough is what creates the hazards of using a lot of runway, and potentially porpoising. I flew an approach fast as an illustration of that risk - and then suggest that you slow down much sooner so that you are at normal approach speed or lower as you reach the runway. I appreciate your reference to the AIM which does add the element that you can slow down at 5 miles or the FAF. So how are you suggesting that a pilot know what speed he can safely fly prior to that point?
GOOD INFO BROTHER MAN WELL SPOKEN
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
@@FlyingLessons Hey James used to be based SQL San Carlos California busy place the bay area and the FBO was a brand new KATANA dealer and I use to always come in wide open @ 110 knots and no flaps and power off and no flaps it was smoother and most times @ 3/4 field stop little KATANA was a great trainer**but the time we were transport flying an old Cessna 172 was 110 knots wide open in good air from Tampa to San Carlos and landing at a TEXAS airport with jets very hazy and that darn tower had me sequence in front of a small jet and just passing the threshold he yells go around because that I was to slow and to close to the jet behind me ! wow** and flight following saved our life flying the last leg up California coast just north of San Diego a Money coming directly at us was at the wrong altitude and was not on flight following or transponder on ? man that was to close barley saw him and pulled out of the way WOW* Enjoy flying brother man^^ lost an ankle and back surgery so no more medical