Ford NASCAR Engines Evolution Explained! 30 Years of Roush Yates Horsepower (C3 D3 FR9)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Have you ever wondered HOW the NASCAR race engines of today evolved from the street driven versions? Inside the RFK Racing (Formerly Roush Racing) Museum they have a C3 Engine from the 1990s, a D3 engine from the early 2000s, and a current FR9 engine used in NASCAR racing today. We met up with Jeff Clark, the EVP of Roush-Yates Engines, to get the full story on this engine timeline. Jeff was hired by Robert Yates himself to be the Jackman on the 28 car of Davey Allison and witnessed much of this development firsthand. The engines shown here have powered the championships of legends such as Alan Kulwicki, Mark Martin, Dale Jarrett, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, and Joey Logano.
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Man...there's some guy all over in this museum with the same name who looks just like you 🤔
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So @Mark Martin do you get to see Wayne Brooks much when you are in Batesville?
“I’m Mark Martin and I approve this video”.
This guy talking about the C3 heads has his info wrong. The C3 heads will bolt to the production blocks Windsor and Cleveland.. People were using these on both block style in Dirt racing in dirt late models and open wheel modified cars. The exhaust port extensions as he claimed was a race only design actually are a raised Cleveland design. For him to say Windsor and Cleveland have different head bolt pattern explain if that be true why does Boss 302 and standard 302 share same bolt pattern. Also explain the Clevor 351w where you put Cleveland heads on Windsor blocks... Another thing is the Yates heads used 351 Cleveland valve cover bolt pattern Still a good video just not totally correct.
The Windsor and Cleveland have the same bore centers. I believe the R452 has the Cleveland deck height and main bearing sizes and the Windsor oiling and water path.
That is my understanding as well....The Priority Main oiling of the Windsor was much better than the Cleveland.
R452 has 302 main bearing size
like to kmow firing order changes from all the engines
I believe the Cleveland had better heads.
Exactly! Clevelands were a 9.2" and Windsors a 9.5" deck height. windsors have a 3.00" main bearing and Clevelands had a 2.79" (less friction) so they went with the smaller Cleveland bearing sizes which were still larger than GM's
FYI...C3 Yates heads will absolutely bolt on to a Windsor based motor 351/302...love the content guy's! Try to get us some older Ford engine stuff too...C302-B etc!
I was going to comment the same, there were several details that were stated that were incorrect, but still a great video!
Pretty bad when a rep from Ford isn’t aware of that. Lol
Yes but the water jackets have to be fixed. That's why Cales car was overheating at Daytona. He was using the new SVO Windsor block with the Cleveland heads. The Elliott's were still running Cleveland blocks.
@@chriswells4382 Not a Ford rep... just a guy who used to be a jack man or a gas man on yates team. NOT AN ENGINE GUY BUY ANY MEANS
@@davescott686 what year was this?
Hey! Just got a notification for a gifted membership, whoever gave me one - thank you! I work hard, money is tight, have 3 kids, wife & 2 sick elderly parents. I appreciate the gift a ton!
That was Brian Beilmann!
Mann jealous
Congrats though hard to find real men anymore family first brother
Well deserved bro
Nice you earned it
The technology and history of these engines is just awesome! I love the small block Ford 302/351 motors and that C3 racing engine is by far my favorite one.
Great Video! I was a solid Chevy fan until I went to Daytona in '85. The Elliots made me a believer. Anyone that could make a Ford run that fast had my respect.
This is gonna be good. I know that a NASCAR engine is on my bucket list for an all out road race car. I love NASCAR engines. They sound so good spinning at 9k rpm for hours at a time.
This is absolute gold. Thanks for getting Jeff on the channel, this was fascinating.
Thanks Steve!
Fantastic work Mitchell! You’ve hit a Nascar tech niche that all of us mechanically inclined nerds LOVE!! Thanks for the captions too. The rumor about Kulwicki traveling with his heads is GOLD!!!
Thanks man!!
That sounds like something Alan would do. 😂
Nerd 😝.
Hey you said it .
So I say again nerd 🤓 🔊
Lol jk man
Ditto. I could sit and listen to the history of the development of the various domestic V8 engines through 1971, and I guess I’m supposed to care about “late model “ engines too. To me, 1972-1999 was a sad era in American engineering, manufacture, and R&D. But even though I’m a Ford guy, especially FE engines, the whole chess game between the Big Three is better than fiction. Between car design, the Charger, the Torino, (what’s a Cornvette- I just don’t care, except the 65-66-67s, even then, they’re 2 door, purpose built sports cars. They had no excuse but to be world beating, coming from the biggest American company at the time, GM had BETTER not compromise- I like underdogs, not privileged kids). The small block Chevy was simple enough, even though I’ll never understand putting a distributor in the back, hampered by a firewall most of the time, and it introduces distance, which allows flex between the ignition timing and the cam timing. I’m not saying a camshaft twists that much, but 1/2 degree advance or retard in timing at 6,000rpms can make or break. Anyway, I love Rat motors, those heads are respectable, but Ford stomped on that, and Chrysler with the big giant ports on the Hemi made them look like amateurs, even if Cleveland ports were oversized, and both the Hemi, and the “semi-Hemi” canted valve Cleveland heads were an interesting example of how corporate would sometimes allow a product to be released onto the street, which in reality wasn’t very good on the street. At other times they had to pull teeth to get a few dollars spent on better steel in the valve seats, harder cam sprockets, lighter components that didn’t conflict with the corporate demands for ease of manufacture and low cost/overhead, while Ford puts out the Boss 429 with outrageously huge ports, barely streetable, so how did these disparate results come to be? That’s what I want to know. The ebb and flow between the market guys, bean counters, engineers, bosses, designers, and managers, is the stuff of legend and actually resulted in the cars we went out and spent the second biggest investment of most American’s lives on, so what does that say about the machine that is American automotive manufacture? It says that they didn’t just tap into our souls, they invented the attractions which ultimately became some people’s hobbies and some people’s obsessions. We give them LOTS of credit. But it’s still not enough. Even if they’ve been ripping us off the whole time. If it weren’t for the attraction, we wouldn’t be drawn into becoming suckers in the first place. Just like our mates, we are powerfully drawn to the thing which might just destroy us, or make us.
You’ll notice that FE exhaust ports have a similar “relief” cast away from the valve cover, valve train oil pool, and each other, thereby allowing more heat to be released and have it happen more quickly than flush cut exhaust ports. Note that below the port, the casting extends down to the deck, the better to conduct heat away from the hot chamber adjacent cylinder top, which in turn helps retain structural integrity by reducing heat soak even if slightly, that heat flow is an exponential curve, so a couple of degrees drawn away via this exhaust port design could be worth 10 or more at the combustion zone, valuable stuff, where it may not be absolutely about getting rid of heat, but about CONTROLLING HEAT. We want a cool charge into and behind the valve face, so as to increase the mass of the air charge, which in turn means a higher POTENTIAL for a more powerful explosion, thrust. Yet, too cool of an atomized charge and it will start to condensate on the inner corners of the runners and ports, which in turn slows the change, de-homogenizes it, and also makes the charge a bit harder to make combust as thoroughly as possible. Unburned fuel is both dangerous to our air, our soil, and us, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, it ROBS HORSEPOWER. See what I did there. It’s an odd dichotomy, we want the ports and the charge to be as cool as possible, until we don’t. The split second of ignition is actually benefited by a higher charge temp, as the difference in degrees slows the development of the flame front, kernel, and even the expansion which helps with exhaust scavenging. When these events are occurring every 60ms at 2000rpms, the rate at which each individual and mandatory event occurs is EVERYTHING.
I seen my first CNC machine in the early 70's, it ran on paper tape. My dad was a machinist, tool and die maker. My dad said the CNC was going to be a "game changer"
I ran a cnc mill in 1984, it was pretty new teck at that time, but had been around for a few years for sure.
@@jerryw6699
I think what I seen was in 1972(?).
@@joeschlotthauer840 Yea, I worked in a tool and die shop, the owner was machinist on a ww2 battleship, I wish i could remember which one. That CNC machine i ran was super cool. I think he bought it used in about 82 or 3. It didn't have the paper, it had an early PLC controller.
SR-71 was developed during the 60's and they pioneerd som of the punch card CNC machining stuff (or so the claim).. the punch card "machining" is much much older if you include the loom stuff
I know this is NC.. and not CNC.. but it's where it all started from ... "1725 - Basile Bouchon in Lyon invents punched paper data storage as a means for controlling a loom."
Great video!
Davey Allison was my favorite driver, Robert Yates and team were pioneers in the engine department.
It was good to see them win the Championship with Jarrett. Wished it would have been Davey.
Jeff Clark is a legend. He offered me a job in 2017. Stellar video.
thank you chad!
Smokey Yunick was welding up and changing actual stock heads in the 1950's ..
Bog Glidden Welded up and built his own Pro Stock heads.. too ..
Smokey was changing valve angles and changing the base circle of cams so they measured like stock yet had much more lift ..
Cleveland and Windsor had the same head bolt pattern....AKA BOSS 302 small block 302 with 351 C 4V heads ( changed coolant port to intake side)
My friend and I saw lake and son at a all you can eat restaurant back in the early 90s. we ran street stock and super stock cars at Asheville NC and Anderson SC they ask us to join them. We talked about racing stuffed our faces for an hour. They really are bluecollar people. Same thing with David Pearson I talked to him many times in public. He lived close Spartanburg SC.
I know it's a different thing all together but Bob Glidden did some new amazing changes to the Cleveland head that R Yates picked up on. Ernie Elliot also did some special twisting and grinding on Cleveland heads. But later that Yates.
The flexing of the block that was spoken about near the end is something that answers questions I had about engines I have seen go from a great race engine to a not so good engine or even a blown up engine.
These videos are so cool. The stories of these guys trying to keep their secrets safe is priceless. And your association with Greg speed really helps. You can tell he is very passionate about what he does. Thanks again for these videos
Glad you like them!
Just to clarify a few things, the Windsor, Cleveland and for that matter the 300 truck 6 all have the same bore center and deck bolt pattern. And the 4-7 Chevy swap isn't new or magic, it's the old flathead Ford firing order that the coyote also uses. As for using the best of Windsor and Cleveland the Windsor has a superior oiling system and is more compact and lightweight. I would think they used the "Cleveland" canted valve head pattern that was actually originally designed for the Windsor block as the boss 302 in Trans Am. Great work and an interesting video I just think his memory must have been a little fuzzy. Some history on the dart Buick days would make a interesting subject sometime. Thanks
If you pay attention the Ford 15426378 firing order used by all the non 351 fords was identical to Chevrolet and everyone else. The cyls are numbered 1-4 with the front on the pass side and 5-8 drivers side. Start on 5 and watch which holes fire in the sequence, same same. The 351 w and 4-8 swap are different
I remember hearing stories about Jr Johnson welding up heads in the early and mid eighties which made since why that #11 Mountain Dew Buick then the Budweiser Chevy driven by Jaws was so hard to beat. Jr was slick and obviously knew way more than how he let on. Bill and Ernie seemed to be the first Ford team to figure it out and boy did they. I knew things would change over time but man the technology today is light years ahead of what it was 40 years ago. Thank you for this very informative and educational video. One of your best ones yet. Always a pleasure to see and hear Lake Jr's perspective on things. Love his passion for what he does. You and Logan keep up the great work and hope 2023 is even better for you guys. Great to see young people genuinely interested in the history of the old Nascar. Too bad there aren't more but yeah the world sucks right now, and I'm glad that you get it!
Thanks man!! We appreciate you
Actually JACK ROUSH and DOUG YATES did more INNOVATIONS on The FORD Clevors ! Cleveland, Windsor combined ENGINES They USE currently in NASCAR, in EVERY FORD Vehicle To date ! Exfinity series Truck series and Cup series! Maybe ARCA Too ! .
MADE SENSE ,NOT SINCE !
Although the content is great, here is some minutia that was either skimmed over or somewhat wrong. The C3 head is really a modified version of the factory Cleveland head, which was used before the homologation change over. It was briefly touched on the exhaust ports being cut off at the valve cover edge. The practice was a bit more involved than stated, as the builder would make a section with the port raised up to exit the head so that the port floor would be flat at the top of the section where the short turn radius came off of the valve seat, giving the port significantly improved flow numbers. This section would be sealed up to the head using epoxy & a strip of steel across the top secured with slightly longer head bolts or studs. The OE port design would drop back down with the port centerline nearly lining up with the top of the short turn radius. This design was an engineering compromise to get the exhaust manifolds to fit in the OE chassis using strut towers such as the Mustang & Cougar design. The chassis of NHRA & NASCAR cars do not have the issues with strut towers for the most part, so the mods were made to the OE head designs until the C3 castings were made available. It was stated that those heads with the mods would essentially have the headers bolted directly to the head section which is inaccurate. It really isn't that big of a deal, but the reasons the mods were done will make sense when explained fully.
Also, there is a bit of longer story with the Ford firing order. There are 2 separate OE firing orders. The one ending in 78 is the order for all modern V8 engines except the 351's (all 3 iterations), the 400m, & 5.0 HO engines, which are changed to the pattern ending in 48. I don't know what the actual pattern that Roush used & I am assuming it was something completely custom for a Ford. Also, the cams from 289/302 engines & 351W can be swapped back & forth as long as the plug wires or coil firing order is changed to match the cam used. I heard that the 351 & HO cams were changed to achieve better harmonics at higher revs seen when they were used in racing, & that dies make sense. Again, this isn't that big of a deal, but I thought some people would find it interesting info.
Love it! Seeing the old Davey pics got me sentimental. He was my guy. 80’s-90’s Cup stuff was amazing. Hard to believe what they did with ‘factory based’ stuff. Keep it coming!
thanks man we appreciate you!
Thanks for all your videos. I raced a couple C3 Ford's in the Winston West Series back in the 90's . One was an old Ivan Baldwin built Chad Little car (short track) and another C3 Ford that was AJ Foyt's last Brickyard 400 car that was built by Penske.
The bottom of the 60 car in the video had one of my suspension modifications that I pioneered when I was crew chief in the Truck Series back in 2001. I was told by several people at the time who saw it that they were going to steal it and sure enough, it showed up on at least one car that I can now verify....
You may have not been in the shot but this was a very very good 👍 video for us gear heads as to how the racing engine evolved….without the 2 of you going out there to find stuff like this for us to watch we may never have known …. GREAT!
Thanks glen!
Best channel on UA-cam we have something special here nobody is doing history of a American 🇺🇸 racing Heritage like Mitchell and Logan great work guys !! I hope everyone is enjoying this as much as I am. Have a blessed day and thank you very much.
Thanks bill!!
Sam Auxier Jr Show, You out did yourself this time !!! You are making the rest of us look bad LOL, GREAT JOB !
You are single handedly bringing American racing history to the masses.
People that didn't grow up watching this wouldn't even know where to start looking to find it.
Thanks Steve
Love the work you do on your videos. But using hindsight and living through those days at Ford racing it’s easy to pick out the less than accurate answers to your questions.
I have actually bolted of those Robert Yates heads C3 onto production cast-iron Windsor blocks with no trouble at all!
And your actual correct the C3 was based on a Cleveland iron head.
Cast in aluminum with A number of fixes prescribed by Robert Yates engine team.
And when he’s talking about exhaust ports. Yes the casting was changed and raised To eliminate the need for port plates!
I’m sure it comes down to people working inside Racing in Charlotte not dealing with the rest of the world, lol
Friend of mine RIPwho is long gone now got ahold of a early 90's NASCAR engine and after we swap the long-legged cycle track roller cam out for a a good grind iski drag roller cam and dropped in his 67 SS Chevy 2 Nova, and it ran a 9:73 at 1/4 mile163 mph, pretty fast back in the early 90s at least we thought it would....
I remember going to Brian Tooley’s shop, Total Engine Airflow, in Bowling Green KY back in 97-98ish when he was still doing his heads and intakes by hand. They are not lying when they say that it is tedious work getting world class heads done with a die grinder.
I have learned that Lake Speed Jr. Is a real Bad Ass!
Thank you!
Nothing beats hearing the history firsthand.
Mark
As an Aussie, we need you to come here and do a series on our V8 supercar series history, these are fascinating.
If someone would pay for us to do it...we would do it
Love the Australian gearhead attitudes I always wanted to go to Australia find it very interesting hear the women are pretty n out number the men there!
Would be cool to see some history of imsa Daytona prototypes and the tech that went into them now that they have been replaced
Oh heck yes, Mitchell interviewing Richo, Bowe, Seaton, Bargs, would be cool. Though he should start by asking Dick Johnson about swearing live on TV during a NASCAR race. :D
Wow.. just WOW.. another AMAZING video! We the racing community appreciate EVERYTHING you two are doing ❤ and Thank you to Lake Speed Jr playing his part in these invaluable videos 👍💪
Our pleasure!
As a lifetime engine guy here this was absolutely enlightening and educational in the history of and the evolution of the NASCAR engines from the OEM blocks and heads to the full blown factory "Backed" Full race engines that are in today's race cars. Nascar also has to test and approve these race breed engines trying to keep them equal and fair from one manufacture to another. Anyways thank you Stapleton42 and to the other guys for taking the time to explain the evolution of the engines. I'm here near Winston Salem NC. and fully appreciate all the race shops you are able to hit up and get great interviews with. Thanks again! ;0)
Thanks man!! We’re glad you’re here
A great interview. But there is a little more history to this, history prior to 1980.....the "Windsor Boss". Robert was involved with this engine in the mid 70s. Somewhere in an old album I have a photo I took of one in 1975. It made 575 hp. This piece of history actually goes back to Parnelli Jones's stock cars from the late 50s.
I would have loved to go back farther in time but Jeff didn't know much prior to the C3 era. Maybe Ernie Elliott could fill us in someday
Love the Yates head stuff! I was a Bill Elliot fan from 83. Ernie Elliot found a way to make those 351 Cleveland's fly! Ive heard that he used fast burn technology. That would be a cool video. Im watching this video on C3 heads. Cleveland and Windsor's had the same bolt patterns and bore centers. Cleveland's had terrible oiling systems, and lots of weight on them front with the cast in timing cover.
I don't know if you guys have been over to drag boss garage. I know it isn't NASCAR but dang. Talk about a wealth of knowledge about NHRA. He goes and talks to all of the old dudes who are still alive. And the knowledge you get about the heads and cams is mindblowing. Trying to keep all of that information in my head is impossible. He and you fellas really really need to transcribe your shows like this. Because I can retain so much more information when I read it. But I recon I could turn on the cc and read along while I listen. Genius! Love ya'll and GOD bless you, you deserve it!!!
Thanks man!!
Ernie Elliott had a lot figured out on those engines. As fast and reliable he made Bill's engines was amazing! North Georgia engineering at its best.
Before the Yates heads too
@@racecitypatriot66 And he was using the Australian "Cleveland" block. Don't remember if that was a truck block or a purpose built racing engine? They get some stuff down under that the USA never sees.
I think Ernie is super under appreciated. Probably because he’s just “Bills brother” instead of seen as an independent engine genius.
@@Stapleton42 That would be a great video. Just talking to Ernie Elliott.
Ernie was first but Robert Yates was building winning Chevy engines before owner Ranier switched to Ford and Robert started doing his thing with Ford. Remember Robert Yates got his start with Holman Moody and Ford.
I love watching these videos of yours. Understanding not only the design process, but getting an inside look on the train of logic over time really helps someone like me to understand what I should and shouldn't concentrate on when undergoing engine design.
Videos like these end up as roadmaps for me to understand the 'why' more than the 'how' of engine technology progression, which I find more important as time goes on. It helps guide my focus along with figuring out the intricacies of engine design; not to mention how to curtail my designs to best optimize the end result.
Thanks Mitch.
Thanks man! We’re learning the same stuff right there with you
Engines always fascinated me. Thanks for sharing. BluePrint's sister company, Origin Engines, was putting piston oilers on traditional big block and small block Chevy blocks they use in their turbo charged stationary, industrial engines.
Thanks man that’s awesome
Just a note. Yates heads are loosely Cleveland. Cleveland and Windsor use same bore spacing and bolt layout. Cleveland and Windsor heads interchange.
Very interesting video. I worked at a Ford dealership through the early 80's primarily on the 6.9 diesel which had the piston oiler jets incorporated into the block it also had roller lifters,crossbolted mains and the crank was positioned higher in the block much like the modern LS engine. I often fantasized about modifying it to a gas race engine.
Hello I got a 91 f350 with the 7.3 non turbo is this block just like the 6.9 does it also have all the goodies as the 6.9 you just mentioned
@@edwardkesock216 It is. I've actually got one in my shop right now.
"Did you learn anything?" Absolutely! Amazing amount of info in a short time. Going to watch again and learn even more. Thanks for doing these
you're welcome woody!
Jeff Clark is a great man. I met him years back when he worked for Dale Earnhardt Inc. Just a class act and knowledgeable
Mitchell, I have not had the chance to meet you but this year at PRI I did stop by and talk to Lake Speed Jr. I told him as a drag racer how much I have enjoyed the videos the two of you have done together and to keep it up
Very cool!
Awesome! From 700 HP in the early 90s at Yates, to 920+ in 2014 before NASCAR killed the big power and big speed.
The day they killed the big power in nascar, is the day the sport started dying and declining. Sucks to see it start to die because of incompetent management. No one wants to watch full blown race cars that have less power than a lot of modern sports cars you can buy at any dealership. Total incompetence.
Was very sad when they put the damn stupid tapered spacers on the cars in 2015!! The 2014 engines were GREAT!! I watched almost every single race from 1997-2014, and more less stoped watching in 2015. They should take them off!!!
Outstanding History ! Showing us the development of the horsepower and the metals involved. Jeff Clark and Lake Jr. did a Great job for the journey of knowledge, along with some good questions from Mitchell . Thanks for all the hard work with video / edit .
Thank you Steve!
Man I love the blue on the Escalade every time I see it in a video, it's like a magnet pulling my eyes to it.
Me too I love it. Might have to put it on something else
@@Stapleton42 That would be awesome.
When he was talking about the extensions on the heads for the exhaust manifolds, it made me think of my 1970 F-100. It had a 362 in it. It had extensions on it but they stuck out a little further.
Being a Ford man all my life, I really learned a lot from this video. I did modify my 71 351 Cleveland engine just by doing some shaving of the rocker arm pedestals so I could get more lift on my camshaft. Also had a 351 Windsor which I learned needed a lot of expansion of the exhaust ports so that head would breath. I am glad to know I wasn't screwing up. Thank You.
How does shaving the rocker arm pedestal create more lift ?
How does shaving the rocker arm pedestal create more lift ?
@@jesse75 puts the rocker arm closer to the pushrod which causes more lift in the valve.
I really like the questions being asked. You're doing a fine job! One area that I take interest in is failure analysis. He spent time saying that cylinders #5&7 kept failing but didn't say what failed. I was on the edge of my seat hoping he would have.
Awesome videos... more please🏁🏁
Breaking valve springs.
Absolutely the best video ever. Robert Yates was my favorite, I new he was a genius with engines and now I know why. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
It`s great you got these guys to explain the improvements along the way and the quality of the questions you asked them.Your NASCAR series of vids entertained me at least.
The 427 FE was a killer engine for a 1958 design, the Side Oiler in the 60s and early 70s was a wonderful engine! I think Robert started with FEs.
Now... you understand why us 60 to 90 year olds... still are improving modern day... soon relics, of the engines of MOTORSPORTS!
KUDO'S young man... enjoyed your content!
Respectfully, Seth
Many years ago, an engine/head builder, Harold Eatmon did "custom/special" cylinder head and block work for a lot of teams. I was into drag racing Buicks back then. "Dickie" Farmer ran the machine shop at then Barnes Motor Parts in Wilson, NC. I was in there one Saturday picking up a crank and chatting with Dickie. I inquired about a strange looking v8 block he had setting getting ready to be aligned bored. Turns out it was from Ford, through Robert Yates, and sent to Harold. It was a "it doesn't exist yet" Ford SVO block. SVO wasn't yet a Ford thing. It was basically a rough, raw casting. Harold did some work on the "they've got to be cheating" heads on Bill Elliott's Ford that they later found the "dimples" inside the combustion chambers to break up the dead flow spots.
BTW, when Bill Elliott had the "trick" heads, Harold was rumored to be one of only three to see the completed head work until the secret got out. They put dimples in the "dead fuel in the chamber" spots.
IMO, there's so many "little unknown chassis and engine builders" back in the day that got the big name guys where they are today. Harold had his Dyno at Steve Redding's Corvette shop. I've seen Dick Trickle's name on a car there before he was famous. Wilson was kinda like a little Charlotte... BTW Robert Yates went to school in Wilson, NC at Wilson Technical Community College as it was named back then.
History already made the documenting of it is just as important, thank you for doing such a great job.
Glad you enjoyed it!
That was actually a very enlightening video. You and Junior work very well together he helps add in the gaps. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks man!
Truly fascinating! From what’s been said out there the C3 head is an ascast version of the old 351 Cleveland heads that had exhaust port plates from the 70’s. Probably had the intake ports stuffers as well.
This is what I understand as well the C3 is actually very close to a production Cleveland head. The block is a hybrid between the 2 a Cleveland oils the crank first and then oils the cam which is desirable. I still have some Cleveland stuff in the garage waiting for a new home in a project
@@RamseyABear to add also, from what I understand is the 351C block Manufacturer in the US was trash. Not only bad oiling but core shift thin walls ect. When Ford quit putting the 351C block in production you couldn’t get any from ford. At least for performance use. The factory blocks were not priority oiling. The lifters got the oil first. Bud Moore, Roush Glidden had all kinds of tricks to keep the block and rotating assy alive. Ford of Australia kept the 351C around quite awhile after Ford US dropped it. They had serious blocks over there. Still basic design same oiling issues but the blocks were crazy strong. They had what they called the pillow blocks. When Ford got back into racing around 80 they would get blocks shipped over from Australia. And go out to the teams. Until the 351C/W hybrid came out. It’s a 351W with the small 2.75 mains. (Think Dart blocks) I’m giving credit where credit is due. There’s a lot of great info on 69janks or yanks channel, and drag boss garage.
@@mikec9112 I agree. The heads are way made the Cleveland famous. The blocks were just junk. Thin wall castings. Shitty oiling system…. Junk .
They just keep getting better 👍
I remember Jeff from back in the Winston Cup days, I'm sure Robert was very proud of the fine group of men that he mentored.
Very interesting mate. The thing I got out of it was that it's not about keeping every cylinder the same. It was about keeping every cylinder happy.
Your videos are great! Not related to this one, but please do one on Bill Elliot. He has an "awesome" museum in Dawsonville GA, Georgia Racing Hall of Fame! Him and his family are really down to earth, good people! I talked to his wife for about 10 minutes at the museum and had no idea who she was until later on the tour when a volunteer told me. I immediately went back and thanked her for being so nice to us.
I am working on that actually
That was awesome. Sorry for my extended diatribe. I’m enthusiastic and have worshiped V8 engines and obsessed about the movement of air and fuel through them since I was 14 years old. That was 1985. The obsession has not receded the least. It might be more intense than ever. Believe it………or not.
What a great historical document. I keep telling my engine guy he must record his process for historical reasons. Well done.
I see these videos pop up and usually have to wait until I have uninterrupted time to watch what has become a very informational channel. Thanks for all the efforts...
Thanks man 💪🏻
Another great video. Well known about details I’ve never known. I’m a machinist of 47 years and it all amazes me. Thank You
Your stuff is always great but this video REALLY delivers. Huge RYR fan and loved hearing the story of the creation of the C3 and everything going forward.
I’d love to see if you could get an interview with the Allisons. Bobby and Donnie are such down to earth dudes but they’ve got stories for days!
SO MUCH COOL DATA. THE 1 & 3 CYLINDER FAILURES HE SPOKE ABOUT MAKES SENSE CONSIDERING THE TRACK ANGLE AND ACCELERATION FORCES. THE OIL SQUIRTER THING IS ACTUALLY WHAT MOST IMPRESSED ME ABOUT JAPANESE CAR ENGINEERS BACK IN THE LATES AND 90S WERE DOING PISTON SQUIRTERS IN PRODUCTION CARS. SO GLAD OUR MANUFACTURERS DECIDED TO STEP THEIR GAME UP BC WEVE GOT SOME AMAZING ENGINEERS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO RACING!
Also want to comment that Bud Moore was the pioneer of the Cleveland Ex port plates. He was the first to get Cleveland heads as in the Boss 302 during the trans am series. Then he went to nascar with the 351C and port plates. This was around 72/73 I believe…
Interesting!
@@Stapleton42 Hey brother. Just a personal shout out to ya for what you do for us hear heads. I’m a die hard ford guy. So I really means a lot to go visit the ford guys that put ford in the winners circle. Totally respect that. Thank you again.
I think it’ll be interesting to track compression rules as the engines changed.
It's kind of funny when you said you don't speak Ford. I've only watched three of your videos (which are great btw) and they've all been Ford related. ED Pink, Woods Brothers and this one, I've been a Ford guy my whole life and know more about Ford engines then most but I have learned something from all three. For that I thank you and appreciate the time and effort you've put in to make the video's.
Keep it up. What you're doing is a good thing.
I know right 😂 I’ve never spent much time working on one so I don’t know the Ford way of listing the firing order but I can translate them to the GM numbering 😂
I am Ford man and Ford GT historian. Know a thing or two about Ford engines but this is new to me.
Thanks much, great video.
Thanks man!
Another awesome video. Have a question for ya. Have you ever tried to talk to Ernie Elliot to find out what he/the Elliots did to their heads to be so dominant on the superspeedways in the mid 80s?
From what I understand, Ernie isn't particularly "personable". Just not a big talker. I also would love to hear what he has to say but would be surprised to see him interviewed. I'd bet he's be done in less than 8 minutes. LOL!
Awesome Bill is my all-time favorite driver.
I am working on an opportunity to possibly talk with Ernie. In my opinion he deserves to be on the same pedestal as guys like Yates and Roush as far as legendary engine guys are concerned.
@@Stapleton42 That would be so cool. Someone "in the know" mentioned that there was a guy who did most of the engine building for the Elliotts back then. Can't remember the name but it wasn't Ernie.
@@Stapleton42 Yes Ernie does. He helped a lot of local racers running Fords with used Cup parts Many local guys running Fords would take factory Cleveland and Windsor and also 302 blocks and use the C3 heads in Late Model dirt cars and open wheel mods. John A Utsman was one of the local Ford racers that won many races doing this very thing.
Ed Gray Ernie Elliot is a miserable old turd now. Actually, he always was. He still keeps his secrets as if he was hoarding money. I can tell you that he used to fill in the exhaust ports to reshape them and make them smaller. I believe he was one of the first to run 15:1 compression in his engines.
This is the video us Ford guys have all been waiting for, great job!
Thanks Ron!!
Too bad a lot of the information was Incorrect
The extent of the Genius of Robert Yates is just now being revealed to many folks today. Thanks for the vid. buddy!!!!
Excellent video on the tech aspect of these engines, love it! Thank you so much for your efforts in making this video for all of us so that this knowledge can be shared, definitely appreciated. I'm here with you guys, keep up the great work!
Thank you very much!
The guy was not correct about the C3 stuff. The C3 heads will fit both 351 Cleveland and 351 Windsor, also will fit 302 blocks.
Amazing the ingenuity. 920 horsepower! Holy shit. Now I know why my eat drums got blown at the Nascar races. Love the content.
They don't even let them make 920 anymore. I think they are cut down to 670 or something
Funny he spoke of the things I did to my 1968 ford motor components. Put it in my daily driver and still have it. The heat issues are very real.
👌😉👍
As a jr fan, I always thought Jeff Clark was just the jack man......never knew he was in on the motors......You should find Richie Gilmore. He was responsible for the DEI plate motors during their dominance, and I've always wondered what they were doing 🤔
Yinz guys have found your niche with NASCAR videos. Great videos and thanks for bringing back good memories of following the sport for 50 years. Keep up the good work!
Thanks man!!
Great job, this is informative AND interesting
That truly was the best part of nascar. I loved watching
So glad that I found your channel. Been watching your videos for the past few months and I've gotta hand it to you; your content is amazing. Little things like in this video when he asked about editing, and you said that it flows like a normal conversation....thanks for keeping it that way. Yeah, you could edit the footage to flow in a very precise way, but the normal back and forth conversation style is way better. The raw feeling makes me feel as if I was standing there with you and Lake talking the evolution of Ford NASCAR engines. Keep it up, brother
Thanks Jason 💪🏻
Love these historical videos. I like the evolution of things as well. Very informative. Thank you!
Great video! So much information. I never realized watching nascar as a kid the innovation that was taking place right before my eyes. Keep up the great work!
Same. Going back to learn about what you were seeing at surface level back then is so fascinating
This info was so crazy and really pulled me in. I learned a lot and it was great. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
great video. I am a ford fan and loved roush racing in the kenseth years. thank you for this!
Absolutely spot on! Learn from and build your foundation from the shoulders of these giants! You're a smart dude!
Thank you Dave!
Stapleton42 +: Your interests - _WHY?/HOW COME?/WHO?_ - are exactly mine. That makes your channel of extreme interest to me, the *_Old Curmudgeon_* . That said, keep these comin'! Every one will be watched, absorbed, and finally, _immensely_ enjoyed! 👍👍👍
Thank you so much Nate!
Great video! It's people like you who will pass down the awesome history of nascar so that it won't be lost forever! Keep up the fantastic videos! I know you're a GM guy, but you should head up to Level Cross and do an interview with the King! He's been with all the American car manufacturers. Check out his junkyard!
We have done a few videos at the Petty’s. One with Richard himself!
What I've just watched and tried to absorb is amassing, I will watch this video a few more times. 👍👍👍 For all you people putting this video
together for the world to see!!! thank you.
I was never a Ford fan but that was a great history lesson, great info on how things develop, pretty amazing
I love these these racing history videos not just the drivers but the engines,chassis’s and components I can’t get enough of it lol
Sweet!!! Blue Oval 4 life!!!
Ford??? “Fucker Only Rolls Downhill” 🤦♂️🤣😂
Mitchell coming through like always with the great content. A future video idea would be doing something like this with a Chevy engine builder whether that be ECR or Hendrick Engines going from the Small Block to SB2 and R07.
Another idea is to maybe visit a team like Trackhouse who has all the old Gen 6 cars from Gannasi and with some of the CGR staff still there and those cars being “outdated”, maybe get someone to talk about the neat tricks they were doing with the Gen 6 cars at the end of its life.
very cool to see the differencs in the 3 generations of ford racing engines nice job
thank you Wesley!
My favorite video yet. I was a huge RYR fan back in the Davy/ Ernie era. I do wish you all talked about compression ratio and how it changed power as Nascar mandated lowering it.
Hello Hello From Canada!!! This was another one of your winners for content and all the questions you asked about the engines, was like you had a link to all my possible questions. LOL Keep up the awesome content and I hope you and all those near or dear to you stay healthy and happy.
Another awesome video! Loved the history lesson and the inside baseball. I grew up watching all of this stuff go down without knowing the details. Learning all of these things now helps complete my childhood!