Capturing Waste Heat - 5 Meters Of Stainless Exhaust - Will It Even Run ?
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- Опубліковано 2 лют 2024
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Actual Description: In this video I have almost 5M of extra exhaust tubing (16 feet) and we are going to see how it effects heater operation, CO levels as well as checking to see how much heat energy we can capture.
If the thumbnail of this video says "this is not free energy" that is because other idiots on youtube have used this clickbait title and thumbnail to draw people in.... it makes me angry. You paid for the energy.... collecting it from the exhaust does NOT make it free. - Авто та транспорт
One of the tricks of tuned engines is to keep the exhaust as hot as possible by wrapping it with glass tape. Hot gasses are less dense than cold, so easier to shift and keep moving. A low-level plinth radiator, or a turbo intercooler with a fan might be more effective. That pipe is only corrugated to allow bending; it does nothing for the flow but slow it down.
It's wrapped to keep the exhaust gas velocity up.... The capture of heat is NOT the goal in this case. Intercoolers are usually aluminum, not resistant to exhaust gas since designed to cool incoming COMPRESSED AND HEATED air
Yes, if you are not interested in capturing the lost heat, then this would allow more free movement of the exhaust gasses 👍
If you are only interested in capturing the waste heat, then there are many better options. A radiator or intercooler would work WAY better than this, for sure.
That’s great for an engine but when you are dealing with heaters you want that exhaust to be as cool as possible because that means you are extracting the maximum amount of heat and making the heater more efficient.
@@White000Crow For almost all cases, it makes sense to capture the heat, but it is true. If you had no choice but to run a long exhaust, it may make sense to insulate it and accept the heat loss.
I modified an aluminum single pass transmission cooler, fins inside and fins outside by drilling and tapping the end caps with a 1" nps pipe tap. A 1" pipe nipple is .040" bigger ID and sleeved to createa press fit for the corrugated exhaust pipe. The aluminum HEX holds up to heat as does the exhaust port and body of the heater. With this and 10" of pipe works well.
These videos are just getting better and better!! thank you.
Thank you ! I appreciate that.
My original comment disappeared because I included some eyybay and Aaali links, so here's again.
You have done it! 🤗Thank you very much. Although people have done various types of exhaust heat recovery in different ways, no one has done as methodical and thorough as you. One guy who did it with a BPHE has no video, only a blog post. All heat is exchanged within 6" of it according to his description but a pump has to run constantly, that's the only downside.
I'm sure you will do your version of bucket experiment later on but my version as you know involves a 84L heavy duty PP storage box in which ~1m of exhaust comes in from the top in spiral and/or curved L shape, etc., haven't decided yet, and exits from a side via a 1" bulkhead tank connector nipple which I had to spent days to find a suitable and affordable one. No pump needed, no long exhaust needed, heater sitting on the bucket, exhaust runs through the bucket and eventually goes outside. All heat will be exchanged within this 1m of exhaust in water. Since water has the most specific heat, I think it will happen. Besides, I have done a lot of convincing calculations.
You can use an online dew point calculator to calculate at what temperature the hot exhaust gas turns into carbonic rain. 😅
As you already know CO is related to unburned fuel and CO2 is related to clean burn. So, depending on they type of meter you have, you can look out for excess CO (not good) or excess CO2 (good). Am I on the right thinking? I guess CO is more sensitive so probably better stick with it.
You see the bend in the exhaust pipe is the most discolored, this is because when the hot exhaust hits the bend it creates most turbulence before it finds its way out. Therefore, the original manufacturer Eberspächer or Webasto recommends max 2m length and total 270° bends.
After a lengthy research, I found the suitable pipes (the adapters you use) to connect the exhaust pipes very cheaply on Ali, look for FUYI Metal Store. It has aluminum and brass pipes at 24mm OD. For those who don't have a lathe machine like you, you can use a normal rotary pipe cutter to cut the pipe into pieces. On ebay some people are selling a couple of rings (adapters) and clips for the price of a meter of such pipe from which you can cut a lot of rings.
Man... I hate YT deleting comments ! So annoying.
Sounds like your heat exchanger will be very robust ! 20 litres of water, if perfectly insulated will take about an hour to boil at 2kw. If we say the exhaust puts out about 1kw, that's 2 hours with zero heat loss.
I will probably try it with a 20L (5 gallon pail) as well as a a 64L tote. All of my carbonic rain will be dripping into one spot on the ground ... I don't think it will be a problem, haha. I can put a dish of baking soda out 🤣
CO is a great indicator of complete combustion, or not, and is also dangerous... so focusing on it is ideal. I am really curious to see now much more restriction coiling up my exhaust causes. It could be really bad.
It's good to know there are adapters available !
Very interesting results .It shows how clean burning and efficient these heaters are.. Which equates to how safe they are when used as they should be used . It puts a cap on the profits of doom nonsense .
Yes. Incredibly safe and practical in many situations. Not for everything and everyone, but great when used in a sensible way.
Awesome. I have been wanting to see it in sand and propylene glycol in a 50 gal drum.
👍 I think 50 gallons is probably way overkill, as the output of the exhaust is somewhere around .5 to .8 kw....
I supposed it all depends on what your end goal is... If you want to capture the heat energy so that it isn't lost outside, then I think less will do... however, if you are trying to create a heat battery then the bigger one may be the better option.
👍🏽 🇬🇧 January 2024
I was impressed with these heaters already - now even more so!
Namely, with the low-CO & good combustion.
Yes sir ! If your heater is tuned correctly then the CO is almost nothing. I am at 3500 feet, so my heater makes more CO than it would at sea level.
I run my exhaust through an internal wall then 2 metres on a 1° slope before passing through an outside wall. The workshop where the exhaust operates as a heat exchanger is well insulated and raises the room temperature about 3-4° during running. It doesnt seem like much but it does make a difference, especially as its waste heat that doesnt cost anything to use. The heater performs normally with no adverse starting issues, but the total length is just 2.2 metres. I also made a stainless steel reflector/heat shield that keeps the pine lined wall cool behind the tubing.
My outlet temperature is cool enough to just keep my hand on the muffler (when conditions are cold)
And my CO is pretty stable at 2ppm. The heater is an auto altitude compensating Maxpeedingrods 5kW.
I also made a heatsink passthrough plate with two coaxial shielded penetration tubes, the inside flange plate gets to around 60-70°C with a finned heatsink across the top and while having only minor annular contact to the exhaust tube 150mm from the heater outlet the heatsink cools the plate well, and gives even more thermal efficiency.
Sounds like an awesome setup. My MaxpeedRods heater doesn't have compensation, sadly, and it may be a problem for me at 3500 ft.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I think if you can tune it using your CO sensor you may actually be better off. Mine has no programming options and my minimum pump speed is fairly high with no available menu option to adjust it. With a dual fuel system I am within spec on CO, but the consumption is 6hrs per litre minimum and pumping at about 1.6Hz, it's higher than my other system in my beach shack that I got down to 1.2Hz with the older more adjustable interface.
Cheers.
Great video , firstly be interesting to see if you had no bend in the first tube. I remember as a kid we had baseboard water heating pipes with little two an half inch fins along the length of the pipe , I'm sure if you fined one or two sections of exhaust pipes the heat exchange would be great... love your clips and commentary an being a fellow Canuck🇨🇦 too. Cheers.
Thanks for the comment.
I left the first bend because I figure that is close to reality. Most heater installs are going to have at least one bend.
I grew up on the east coast of Canada and there were a lot more water heated buildings there... My house had a coal fired boiler when we moved in, but it was torn out and the radiators were thrown away.... That would have been 1980 ish.
An exchanger like that would be perfect... much more costly these days.
Outstanding video and test. Waiting for your test on heating water. Have you thought about using larger exhaust pipe to lower the flow restriction? Keep up the great work.
Thanks !
I have thought about using larger pipe. The reason I did this is because it is what most people are going to try, and I wanted to know if it was at all practical.
Stainless in 2 inch would be incredibly expensive. Aluminum would be more reasonable and probably the best option. Mild steed would rust over time.
Larger pipe would offer some advantages for sure !
Standard oil burners use heat exchangers to heat incoming air with exhaust output. .. this improves the. Ignition of diesel (et al) .. these premade units are the handy passthrough
That's a good idea 👍 ... I am considering something like this, but with a twist.
Some diesel heaters heat the Inlet air, the Mikuni MY series does 👍
@@Dirt-Diggler My mind is still blown that Mikuni makes heaters... I just found out recently. Of course the Japanese would heat the inlet air !
We need to get you more people on your channel Joel!
Some of us are trying to help him out! 😂😂😂
@kirkwalsh1932 😆 ya, I guess so. I'll keep on watching as I'm doing stuff to my heater too. Unfortunately I bought my vevor before I found him on UA-cam otherwise I would have purchased thru him.
Haha.... Maybe we can lure them in with candy or clickbait titles ?
haha... and I appreciate it.
Most people watch because they don't want to ruin their hearts ... You and Kirk are just going for it, haha.
Would love to see how having it coiled in a downward spiral would effect it. Then would be pretty easy to point a fan and pull more heat out.
Yes... I will be testing this in my next exhaust experiment video. 👍
Great test and very comprehensive video. If I used one it would be to heat a garage so I wouldn't bother with any fancy heat exchanger except the long exhaust. I would fit the exhaust directly to a 4 inch pipe, less restriction and way more radiant heat. I think it would work and for a garage or workshop it would be ideal.
Thanks !
The way this video started was to see how the heater would react to a long exhaust, for those who need to do it for some odd reason... and what it turned into is a heat exchanger video, haha.
There are many ways to go about this for sure and if you can use a larger pipe, that could be the answer. Normal stovepipe may have issues with corrosion as there would be a lot of condensation, but there are lots of options !
I used a roughly 5 ft length of exhaust tubing to create a sand battery. I shaped the exhaust into a large coil (i.e. spring shape) and placed it in the centre of a half sized garbage can filled with sand (partial fill, insert coil, finish filling). Both ends poke out a hole drilled in the side of the garbage can (one at the top, one near the bottom, both sealed with plumbers putty). The exhaust from the heater connects to the top pipe and the exhaust running through my basement wall connects to the bottom. The sand extracts the heat going through the exhaust coil and then retains that heat for later release into the room. I find that the temperature exhausting at the heater is about 265° C and at the bottom of the sand heater is about 7° C, so I'm collecting one heck of a lot of heat. Because I still vent outside, I have no issues with exhaust fumes.
This is one of the things that I was considering. I also want to do this with water, because it is incredible at heat transfer. Harder to seal up and to work with, but it would be interesting.
Your exhaust temperature at the heater is only 65C ? Am I missing something here... that doesn't seem right. My exhaust pipe is about 270C at the heater.
Oops. I meant 265° C. @@loweredexpectations4927
Hi, from UK, try measuring the added resistance of the exhaust pipe by tapping into the heater end of the exhaust and adding a manometer, basically a 'U' pipe with water in it, one end connected to the exhaust at the heater end, the other end open to atmosphere, see the water level rise as the exhaust pushes against it. Do a Google search to see a manometer. I have 1.2 meters of exhaust in my workshop, zig zagging down the wall, the heater is about 1.5 metres from the floor. I plan to put silver foil insulation behind it. I am impressed by your delivery, you get it over well. Keep it up, dave
Hello ! That's a great idea... and thanks for the kind words ... I have a hard time speaking and it can be a struggle.
I love your idea, but I'm not sure that I can justify the cost of a manometer for this one project.
no need to buy one, all you need is a piece of clear tube, like brake bleed hose, a drop of water and job done@@loweredexpectations4927
@@loweredexpectations4927 The type of manometer he speaks about, is basically a clear hose with water in it. That's fairly cheap.
@@werner.x OH... I searched and found a digital one right away. I was wondering if there was a water column device.
Thanks Werner !
@@werner.x I have used something similar to balance carburetors on a vehicle.
Another great experiment.
I suspect that because the heat exchanger blower and the intake fan share the same motor, anything you do to impede the airflow over the exchanger necessarily impedes airflow through the intake by reducing the rpm the motor is capable of reaching. I wonder if situating the heater with the blower intake pointing down into that concrete block wasn't restricting the airflow enough to change the air/fuel ratio and make it run rich. Even the little black screen cap that screws on the end significantly changes motor rpm when removed.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, a lot of people don't get that about the air flow... if you limit the exhaust, it will run rich as you slow air flow in.
A few people have mentioned the way the heater was sitting on the block. I should have addressed this in the video, but I had done about 3 hours of testing for a previous video where I was checking to see if the heater would run well standing on end.
The heater may have had a little more restriction that open air, but the exchanger was maintaining 210C in normal mode and 184 in alpine mode, so that indicates not much / no restriction. I had purposely played with restricting the inlet in the past, and and pretty small restrictions cause the temp to spike quickly.
The ECU doesn't have fan speed compensation, so load = speed at a given heat setting. Lower battery voltage will decrease fan speed and high voltage will increase. All this to say that if there were significant restriction, it would show up quickly in both exchanger temp and CO levels.
I wonder if you ran a non flexible exhaust pipe that's smooth. Being that this is corrugated pipe would create alot of turbulance and increased surface area which creates additional restriction. A smooth pipe would eliminate restriction.
Maybe something like a hot water heating run that has a smooth pipe and fins on the outside to radiate off the heat would work better
Absolutely. A smooth pipe is much better for low restriction.
The downside to having less restriction is also absorbing less heat. The corrugated pipe ads a lot of surface area compared to the same size smooth wall pipe.
Water is very good at absorbing heat (many times better than air) and I am curious how much pipe would actually be required to effectively absorb most of the heat energy...
@@loweredexpectations4927 Use copper pipe as it's thermal conductivity is WAY better than steel or stainless (200+ BTU/ft hr F with steel being 30 and stainless being 10). I'm planning an exhaust for my CDAH that has a short section of stainless off the exhaust manifold/pipe of the heater then copper pipe which goes through a container of water for thermal mass storage. I'm not sure about the temperature of the exhaust at the heater exit or I'd use copper for the whole thing.
EDIT: I've seen mention of 750 F/ 400 C for the exhaust temp. The manual I have says a maximum exhaust length of 6-1/2 feet or 2 meters with a maximum total of 270 degrees for the sum of all bends.
@@michaelg4931 Yes, copper is WAY better if you can justify the cost, and it is not as easy to install.
The main reason for testing this exhaust was to see if it would be too restrictive for those who need to make long runs. The heat exchanging effect was basically a secondary consideration.
The temp of the exhaust can get very hot if things go wrong, enough to make stainless glow orange. This will also change based on how rich you run your heater. While the exhaust may get to 400C, copper is very good at releasing heat... so it would may not get too hot... however, if you plan on soldering it, the first section may be too hot for solder.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I'd be using nickle silver brazing rod. If I heat the copper I can anneal it to make it soft so expanding it a bit to slip over the heater exhaust flange should be not much more difficult than the supplied stainless pipe. Being annealed it would easily clamp down on the flange. The pipe would go straight down about 4 inches/10cm into a stainless tank filled with water until near the bottom where I'd us a long elbow to have it follow the bottom of the tank and exit the side. The pipe would be brazed where it entered the top and exited the side. I have 5 foot of 1 inch Type L copper water pipe in my stash so I'd just need to get the long street elbow (~$12 USD).
@@michaelg4931 Sounds like a good plan.
You answered my question from yesterday ! Thanks !
Oh, hey ! haha... Yes, here is that video.👍
I have not even watched this video yet I am so excited I went straight to the comment section.
I have watched lots of yer vids. Thank you for this one.
I am also curious how much resistance can be put on the duct (elbows,vents computer radiators for water heating , and just plain linear feet of duct.
Thanks for your comment ! I appreciate it. The results are pretty surprising... but I suspect that when I bend the tubing the results will be drastically different.
I run one of mine into 50 mm (2")aluminium scaffold tube, using key clamp for elbows and high temp. silicone to seal. I have a 3M (10foot run).
I have seen the display on an 8Kw model showing 210 C. at the burn chamber.
What we need is a video showing the fuel hose splitting and pumping diesel onto a red hot exhaust
That's awesome.
My "8kw" heater also shows 210C if I leave it in normal mode. I'm at 3500 feet so it runs a little rich here. When I run it in alpine mode it runs around 184.
"What we need is a video showing the fuel hose splitting and pumping diesel onto a red hot exhaust" Haha... That sounds like fun.
Cheers man great video.
Thanks !
I saw on another channel where someone ran it through an old cast iron radiator with good results.
That is a great idea if you can find one cheap ! I searched around and they are crazy expensive around here as people collect them now.
I also thought about using an old cast iron radiator -- the kind that are used for old steam heating systems. My concern is that, over a long period of time, there will be a very slow buildup of soot from startups, since the cast iron won't get hot enough to burn it off. Then how would you clean it out? If you used an acid soak, it would eventually wear away the metal (and then there's the cost of the acid and disposal issues), and trying to get it hot enough to burn off would cost probably much more than the net gain in energy that was recovered during its use..... I don't think this solution is as simple as it initially seems.
@@philipreich7035 I get the concern, but if the heater is running reasonably well, there won't be much or any soot, and whatever does build up should be washed to the bottom with condensate. I wouldn't be concerned about this due to the fairly large internal volume.
I will be doing this with mine, I have a small cast iron radiator that was pulled in a remodel that I will be using, it should recover a good amount of heat. I just need to figure out my piping and how I'm going to run it back outside as my current exhaust pipe goes directly through a block off plate I put in my window.
I saw that too, but he didn't measure the exhaust gas temp at the outlet so we don't actually know how well it did at exchanging the heat.
Nice! Interested in seeing this one.
🤟
Interesting video! I used to run a 6.5 foot long 3/4 inch galvanized pipe up to the chimeny outlet for nearly two seasons and the heater never had condensation problems, as you said, as long as it's not cold, it should not be an issue. The heater did finally fail, but I think that was related to biodiesel not being as ideal as normal diesel, despite whatever made the heater fail, I did decide to go with a 3 inch aluminum dryer vent to ensure there was no back pressure issues and created an adapter out of tin cans to capture any potential condensation and still no water to be seen. Yes, I finally have a serious comment to share, lol.
HAHA... a serious comment !?
Do you make your own biodiesel ? I want to try this just for fun... if I had a steady supply I might decide to stick with it.
Two seasons of running isn't bad regardless... as long as it doesn't stop working on the coldest day of the year ... and it will, haha.
@@loweredexpectations4927 We were getting the biodiesel locally, would be great to learn how to make it though.
@@HostileHST What do you pay for it, just curious.
About $4 US per gallon at the time and that's from a normal gas station, but I did hear some bad things about biodiesel, so we try to use normal diesel on the chance the info I got about Bio might be true. I highly doubt it's a huge problem, but can burn dirtier from what I understand, but so does normal diesel, so guess it don't matter. I imagine it's more about tuning the heater for different fuels, like with your motor oil experiments, none that I've seen have been all that successful, but there is hope, oh yes, there is!
@@HostileHST You can buy biodiesel at a regular gas station ? I didn't even know this, haha. I live under a rock.
From what I understand, properly done biodiesel is fine. If it is not done well it has glycerine left behind as well as alcohol and perhaps some acids.
It would be awesome if I were able to have success with the motor oil. The remains to be seen... speaking of which... I need to go check on my heater, haha.
i think the higher co levels are from some residue inside the new pipes, that has to burn up when first heating it.
A few people have mentioned this. It is possible, but I'm not sure that the temps would be high enough to create CO. Maybe VOC, but I'm not sure.
I’ve been tempted to run 2 or 3 m coiled through a diy sand battery …. This vid is very encouraging 👍
Thanks for the comment.
Go for it ! I am not sure if I will do sand or water first... For my needs, water is much better as you need less water, and it releases its heat much faster.
A sand battery is great if you want to collect heat and then release it slowly, but I want all my heat now, haha. You will capture some with sand, but may have to add something to the sand to get the desired results from 3m of pipe.
Thanks for doing this test! I've been mulling this over for a while myself.
I bought 2 2 meter lengths of the exhaust tubing to use on a sailboat. My plan is to play with it a bit to determine how long the run can be without condensate forming, and also with it exiting upwards with a gooseneck bend at the top connecting to one of the stainless bulkhead fittings that are available that have a 30 degree "kink" on the inlet side pointing upwards.
The reason for this gooseneck bend connecting to a bulkhead fitting with it's "kink"ed end pointing upwards is to ensure that no water from a wave or heeling would be able to enter the exhaust and make its way down to the heater. I'll do the same thing for the combustion air inlet for the same reason -- to prevent water from getting into the heater.
On the exterior side of the exhaust fitting I plan to install an immediate 90 to go horizontally to an improved version of the muffler that has an s-bend internally with a drain hole at the bottom. The s-bend should also work to prevent water from coming into the exhaust. I plan to fabricate a stainless or aluminum heat-shield to protect the boat's gelcoat from the bend and the muffler, and a stainless wire cage to prevent people from accidentally touching the hot 90 and muffler.
I haven't figured out yet exactly how I will be terminating the exterior of the combustion air inlet bulkhead fitting. I'm thinking that it will likely be with a 90 pointing downwards and some sort of screening on the end to prevent flying insects from nesting in there. The exhaust should also have some sort of bug-protection on it -- maybe a simple lightweight aluminum "flapper" that will easily be pushed open by the exhaust?
Bug protection could be handled by fitting the ends with removable caps that would need to be removed prior to lighting the heater, and then replaced when done. I'm just concerned about the caps getting forgotten either before lighting or after use....
In writing this, I think I figured out how to handle the outside of the combustion air inlet. It will need to be protected from people accidentally knocking it around as they walk past. Since the inlet doesn't get hot, this could be as a simple shroud made by forming a "U" shaped piece of stainless or aluminum sheetmetal with a 90 degree flange at each end of the "U" and attaching it over the 90 degree bend (the flange would provide a place to screw it onto the boat). It would be open on the top and bottom so there would be no air restriction or water trap. It should be made just large enough so that the area behind it can be easily cleaned. This would also allow the standard inlet "screen" supplied with the heaters to be used behind this "U" shaped shroud.
In case these items are of interest to some folks here are some links to them:
Link to the "improved" exhaust with internal s-curve:
www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805789300724.html
Link to the bulkhead exhaust (or inlet) fitting with the "kink"ed inlet side:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CN6QR4D7
Link to the 90 degree fitting:
www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804589131692.html
Link to the 2 meter exhaust pipe:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BDKPZRBD
One supplemental thought to all this is that it might be possible to make a couple of loops of the exhaust tubing and position a slow speed fan to blow across the loops to get some extra heat out of the exhaust. As long as the exhaust tubing would get hot enough to evaporate any condensate formed during initial startup this could work well. You would have to make sure the heater would run long enough for this to happen -- basically avoiding "short-cycling" the heater.
You can purchase proper exhaust outlets on amazon that decouple the heat from the flange.... sort of.. Should be perfect. Oh. I see by the link you have already found this.
Bugs don't typically nest in areas where diesel fumes are present. I think a flapper would risk being a restriction.... Depending on weight and how easy it was to move, if it ever got struck etc.
That could work for me, and I will probably try it... for you, you want to make sure you have enough heat left to get rid of moisture.
I planned on doing something similar to mine but with two 10-foot sticks of common 1.5" exhaust pipe. (Stuffs cheap and purpose-built for exhaust gases.)
Right on ! I'm guessing that 1/4 of my viewers are handy and will come up with a solution of their own, haha.
The main reason for testing this is that I have had a lot of people asking about it or telling me they have installed 6 feet in their green house and are worried etc.
When I did mine I had one of those long pieces that you bought and then two of the smaller ones that come with it that’s how long my exhaust is on mine because I had to exhaust it out the back of the shed. It does heat up the attic a bit more because of the long Exhaust pipe. but I wasn’t sure if it was gonna carbon up the inside of the burn chamber after watching this video kind answered my question. Thank you very much.
Yeah, that's the main reason I did this, to see about the restriction, and it turned into a heat exchanger video... haha.
OK, here's what runs through my mind watching this. Suppose you went from the original 1 m exhaust to say, a 3" piece of duct or stove pipe. That would: increase the surface area, reduce the restriction, lower the velocity of the gases and maybe reject more heat in a shorter space. And it would be cheaper than extra exhaust pipes. Might have to silicone the seam.
Thanks again.
That would absolutely work... You would have to monitor it for corrosion as the condensate would cause rust quickly... I hear it can also be slightly acidic.
I would like to try this with some 3" galvanized stuff for water heater flues.
@@loweredexpectations4927 much easier to come by than baseboard or standing radiators. And less overkill.
@@loweredexpectations4927 perhaps if acidic, aluminium dryer vent might last longer.
I wonder if it would help with extraction to taper from 1” to 3”, much like a 2 stroke tune pipe.
@@curtwuollet2912 True !
Id say burning off oils and other things on the new pipe, I use 8 feet of baseboard water heat with all the fins, the 3/4 copper pipe fits with a union to connect and then I vent outside just to reclaim all the wasted heat thru the exhaust
I hope to do the same with baseboard heaters some day... That or a wall mount seems like the perfect solution.
Cant wait to see you do a double wall exhaust/intake heat intake. Using a larger diameter for the air intake. Sand would be cool to dischaŕge into
I have someting planned for that, but with a bit of a twist ... not sure if / when it will happen, haha.
FOUR Garaaages!! I feel like this video was just for me !!!🤣🤣🤟🏻👑🤟🏻👑
I got a special one for you tomorrow... There a good ol back to back double take in there for ya, haha.
@loweredexpectations4927 haha just saw it...and yes I watched till the end 🤣🤣🤣🤟🏻🤟🏻👑
@@KingofallDiffs haha. Bonus "garaaaage"
I’ve been using 1” copper pipe to extend exhaust due to smooth inner bore (less resistance) and thermal transfer properties. Also been manually adjusting fan speed upward as I add combustion exhaust length and heat output ducting to compensate for increased restriction. Just did a few hours of testing this week but seemed to work great. Prior to these adjustments, choked out and carboned up before it could even get up to running temp even once.
Thx for the content. Learned a lot and entertaining watching you find the limits of the heaters!
I really wanted to go with 1" copper, but wasn't sure how much I would need, and it is pretty costly. I think the exhaust tubing is more relatable to people in a video, but copper is far superior !!
Having an adjustable controller is ideal for this situation 👍
Any metal other than stainless will be corroded by acid in the exhaust. There is a reason condensing furnaces have stainless heat exchangers. This creates a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.
Nice video. Where is the link for the blooper reels, there's the real money maker.....😂😂😂😂
HAHA... too much swearing for UA-cam ! It would be instantly demonetized🤣
@@loweredexpectations4927 I'd pay to watch them.
Great test! I have added a few aluminum heat sinks to the outside of a 1 meter piece of exhaust pipe just to see what they might do - the temperature does decrease from each one in series and it does appear to help pull more heat out of the line. I would like to get some old hot water / steam heater wall units to see how a piece of that would work. Maybe you can figure out a good way to extract heat on a shorter more practical exhaust that also wont cost a fortune...
For sure... Aluminum is awesome at that. I have some aluminum jet ski exhaust and want to use it... but the adapters will be tricky.
I would say, the most cost effective solution is likely a car radiator from a scrap yard, if you can find one with metal end caps.
If you went to a large diameter exhaust, smooth pipe, after the initial 90 degree bend it would lessen back pressure, therefore making start up easier and result in a better burn. It would also slow the exhaust flow and increase the time the hot exhaust pipe has time to cool by convection. It should be stainless steel to avoid rust, as there would be more condensation.
I agree, this would be much better. I tried this experiment because it is more relatable / accessible to most people.
Larger diameter is better in almost every way (not as easy to work with and most expensive). Like you say, the gasses would slow, allowing more time to give off energy, and the larger surface area is a better heat sink !
Interesting stuff! I would have thought it would be even worse running. Might have to look into some reclamation forms at some point!
It is worth it, if you take your time, think it through and do it right, haha... For my next test... I did not do any of that.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I will keep it in mind! I think as long as the corrosive condensation has a way of exiting externally it shouldn't be too difficult.
Banggood does have flashsale on exhaust pipes with silencers right now from their US warehouse. Sometimes also from their Czech warehouse for Europeans. Aliexpress has interesting prices too. Amazon is very expensive...
Yeah..... I should have mentioned that.... I used amazon as I have timelines to get videos out, but there are are other less expensive options.
I added a length of tubbing to mine and crudely coiled it the best I could and it amazed me how much heat I am able to recover from my exhaust. Sometime I will post up a video(s) of my set up as I also use a 30 gallon drum as my fuel tank and I am running a custom fuel blend of clean turbine engine oil, alcohol, old car gas, Jet A, and diesel. So far this winter I have burnt at least 5 gallons and no issues on start up. And I have not taken the heater apart to clean. I will do a check once this fuel blend is all or mostly used up. Mine does have the same condensation output each time I start the heater.
BTW that CD heater temperatures controller is awesome. I am loving it.
WOW... that is quite the mixture !! haha... Have you seen the device that Dave McLuckie has been playing with ? It allows you to set up multiple pumps and mix fuels without actually mixing them.
Turbine oil... I suppose that is a very low ash oil.
I've been running mine on a mix of Jet A and diesel burning about 5 gallons a day when running flat out.
Every ~ 250 to 300 running hours I need to clean mine out due to ash buildup or it won't restart reliably when it runs out of fuel.
@@tcmtech7515 That's when you are burning pure Jet A ?
@@loweredexpectations4927 I don't have pure Jet A at the moment. (~ 30/70 Jet A /diesel blend) Might be getting a bunch of clean Jet A next week and will see how that works.
I 👍, comment, and let the ads play through. My part is done. lol
You are a true gentleman ! Thanks for your support !
If you had any residual oil/hydrocarbons on the fittings or inside the pipe, it will raise the CO considerably until it burns off. l'b be curious how a conventional baseboard heater would fare as an exhaust heat exchanger. IIRC, standard pipe size of the exchanger is 3/4" so fittings would be necesary to connect fron conventional diesel heater exhaust pipe size. A solid wall pipe as exhaust would increase exhaust speed and lower exhaust pressure compared to that Vevor exhaust pipe. Thanks for another great test!
Yeah, oil in the pipes burring off would cause CO, but I don't think it was it enough to burn, after the first pipe. I would expect this to raise VOC content, but not CO ... but I could be totally wrong.
I have been considering baseboard heat exchangers for over a year now. The reason I didn't get them last year was because of all the funky fuels I was burning ... that would have clogged them up. I thin you would need at least an 8 foot unit and they are pretty costly where I am.
Yeah... a smooth wall pipe would decrease resistance and increase flow for sure. I would be curious to see how much less heat would be scavenged as a result. One of my next tests will be to coil this stuff up and see 1. how much restriction it adds and 2. how much more heat is removed as a result.
A lot the smoke on start up with this long exhaust, is likely condensing steam and maybe some raw fuel, its likely not much more then with a short exhaust, but with short exhaust there less cooling to make the steam and fuel condensing into fog that you can see more. It would cool see how much the CO spike changes from the 2 setups, I have feeling it fairly high for both for short time as starting up. As for condensing over all that could be problem at some point as water is made from burning the fuel, I think some are overly worried about as well others that don't under its could be real thing, could fun thing to test.
That does make sense, and my heater will smoke sometimes on startup, just not that much, so like you say, the cooling effect likely condenses what was already there.
I have checked the numbers while it was starting without the long exhaust as well as with it. I don't remember what those numbers are but I don't think the short exhaust made my meter alarm (300 ppm) while the long exhaust made it alarm very quickly.
I will be testing the condensation build up at some point... in everything goes to plan.
Would love to see a video of running the exhaust through an intercooler with a few computer fans to distribute the extra acquired heat.....
Yes... for the purpose of capturing heat, this is a far better idea. I have a lot of tests planned and that is on my long list.
I wanted to do something like this on the heated air port, but all it would really do would be to concentrate the heat at that point, so I would put it over my workbench and it would make that area warmer, it wouldn't increase efficiency in any way.
If you can coil it without causing a restriction problem, you can then put it in front of a fan to see how much more heat it exchanges and see if the cooler pipe does anything bad with restriction and condensation.
Yeah, that is a good idea.
How about making a 1pipe to a 3 or 4 pipe adapter? I would think that would reduce back pressure in the exhaust.
Great idea ! A little more difficult to build, but it would allow for a much more compact and free flowing setup.
Just use some larger exhaust pipe. 2 inch diameter pipe would increase the cross sectional area significantly. It would give more surface area than the corrugated exhaust pipe and less restriction from the smoother inner surface.
Same length of larger pipe, say 2”, would also give the exhaust more retention time in the pipe to allow for more heat transfer to the metal, and more surface area for radiant heat.
@@ericl5973 There are lots of options, for sure. This is just one of the easiest and cheapest ways to do it.
The slower speed of the gasses in a larger pipe may make it more efficient as the gasses have more time to transfer heat.
@@markcoyle8003 I said this exact same thing, haha... It would for sure... I wish 2-3" aluminum pipe wasn't so expensive!
Remember when I did the New Years cooking in a tin video? That actually started out as me running the exhaust into a 6 foot piece of square tubing... think I mentioned it in that video and may be showed a clip of it, haha.
A fan on the end to draw exhaust until it's warm would help with startup
That would work.... as long as it had the right flow rate and could handle the heat👍
@@loweredexpectations4927 have the fan blowing through a bigger pipe with the exhaust inside so it creates a venturi effect. That way you don't have to worry about heat.
Very nice seeing
Thanks !
Thanks for another great video! What if you made all of that exhaust into a coil and then ran a small fan across it?
Thanks ! I plan on trying that soon ...👍
Wonder if you try and use an old steam radiator. Should be less restrictive and may provide plenty enough surface area to capture the most heat
That's a great idea ... I think there are ideos of a few people doing that.
The main goal of this video was to test to see if the exhaust would be too restrictive, and the heat scavenging was supposed to be secondary... It does, however, seem to be what most people are interested in.
Great presentation abilities and well documented experiments. Keep up the great videos. If you need any custom programming done for an experiment, please reach out.
Thanks for the comment ! What sort of programming ?
@@loweredexpectations4927they said custom programming
It should be tried with an exhaust tube with a double or even triple diameter for first 1m, then even larger for the second and third meters, so the air will not be restricted, the heat radiation surface is larger and the possibility of condensation, non-existent .
And if you want to collect the heat quickly, you can put a small 12V fan every 50cm by 50cm to push the cold air from the room towards the exhaust.
Yeah, there are other / better ways to do this for sure. This way is pretty easy and a reasonable price for stainless tubing.
There are many advantages of using a larger pipe, like you say. The condensation would still happen, but it wouldn't become a problem. 👍
VW TDI egr cooler in combination with small fanned radiator and a pond pump 😊
So THAT'S where they come from... I have seen photos of those and didn't know what vehicle they came off of ! Thanks !!
Why not put a few vent holes along the bottom of the exhaust. If you use a small piece of exhaust as a damper to open and seal off the exchanger, you could get rid of the accumulated water/condensation periodically. Nice video...I'm still learning!
I'm not sure what you mean about the vent holes ?
Although I am venting my exhaust into my garage, this is not a good idea. You want all of your exhaust gasses to go outside... you just want to collect the heat from those gasses before they exit.
There are a few ways to get rid of the water in the exhaust. The easiest way is to just have it drain out the end. If that isn't doable, then a drain, like you say, could be used.
@@loweredexpectations4927 The "vent" holes are not really to vent the exhaust, they would just be small holes drilled on the bottom of the exhaust to allow the condensation to drain. By putting a little piece of the exhaust pipe, just enough to cover the holes, when it is on the exhaust pipe, no exhaust or water would leak out. When you want to drain the exhaust pipe of any accumulated water, you could just take the piece off (or turn it) to allow the condensation to drain. I really could be anywhere on the exhaust pipe, so long as gravity would vent the water. The piece would be like a small sleeve fitting over the outside of the exhaust pipe. Since it would be made from some extra pipe, it would fit into the grooves of the exhaust pipe and could be just rotated to vent the water without even taking it off the pipe. I know, TMI... Think of a piece that has been cut lengthwise to fit over the exhaust pipe.
@@stevelacroix2917 Ok, I see what you mean, haha... Yes, that cold work.
I live just a little bit south east of reddeer, if you wana make a short road trip and come see me, I will give you an old intercooler off of an eagle talon for a heat exchanger for more of your experiments.
Thanks for the offer. That's very kind. My buddy has one off of something... perhaps an RX7 and offered it to me yesterday, so I've got one when I have time for that project.
Cheers !
So I wonder what would happen if you ran the pipe vertical to achieve more of a stovepipe affect
Interesting... that could have an effect. However, that would be a 16 foot ceiling, haha.... or you could have a 1 into 4 manifold ... that would be more reasonable.
You'll get less energy out by coiling it, each bit of pipe will be close to other hot bits of pipe so will let less heat out
🤔 ... I don't think your end conclusion is correct, but I can see what you mean. The higher the temperature differential, the better than heat transfer.
I think that the extra restriction will cause more interaction between the gasses and pipe, allowing them to lose more energy to the pipe, and that the effect you mention will exist, but not enough matter.
you can use a radiator from a car or transmission fluid cooler or alot of things and pipe the air threw it and even heat water
Thanks for the comment. Have you tried this ? I would assume that a car radiator would be great, but an oil cooler will be way too restrictive. The lines are just too small.
logic still applies it was a generalization ive seen them used like this in many applications. the tanny cooler work good for wood stove but cars ones are better on this inside..what ever you got @@loweredexpectations4927
An old egr cooler has coolant on one side and gas flow on the other. Thats what ive been gonna do but i will learn from you mistakes first😅@@loweredexpectations4927
Can you adapt into a shorter, bigger pipe like a 3" id? Less restriction on the heater run the big pipe all the way out to the end. More surface area shorter run for more heat transfer. Bro!
Absolutely. This takes more effort and the cost would be greater, I assume.
If you were reckless like I am you could test it with heat register duct work and see how that works. My guess is that it would be fine, but not sure how it would handle the condensate.
@@loweredexpectations4927 plus the air in bigger pipe will be slower which should help with the exchange..
If you bring the exhaust temperature down to 140°F. You are going to start condensing your exhaust gasses. I think you get another 970btu/hr per lb of water when that happens and all the other problems that come with that acidic water.
Yeah, I briefly talk about this at the end of this video. I'm not too worried about the acidity, but it does need to be able to drain.
@@loweredexpectations4927
I wish I had the time to play with this stuff too. Keep up the good work.
@@loweredexpectations4927
I'm using a 5kw to heat the 24' travel trailer I'm living in. Way cheaper and more comfortable than the LPG furnace that came with the trailer.
@@hotrodplumber Thanks ! I work a seasonal job, and the responsible thing to do would be to get a winter job, but instead I try to make UA-cam videos profitable, haha... Otherwise, I wouldn't have time either.
Sand, heat sand and monitor it as it cools.
Yeah... I may try this.
i claim these comments in the name of the people and anarchy to use at your leisure please continue
🤣 lol... nice, thanks !
🔥I've been enjoying your videos over the past 2 weeks and you've earned my subscription, thank-you. I've took delivery of 1 Vevor diesel heater last week and have 2 more on the way. I'll be heating a small insulated garage and will be exhausting outdoors. I'll be using a 3 1/4 " diameter 3/8's thick walled mining-drill pipe 12 feet long as a heat exchanger. I would think that if the exhaust extension pipe (drill pipe) has a lager diameter than that of the heaters factory diameter pipe, there should be less restriction if any at all. Would you agree with this set-up or can you provide any insight on my exhaust plans.
Thanks again 👍🏼
Thanks for your support !
That's a lot of heaters ! You could start a UA-cam channel about it, haha. That is a serious pipe !! You will not have any issues with restriction and the pipe will likely get warm, but not super hot. That's a lot of metal to heat up.
I would say you've got the exhaust figured out ! You will want to keep a down slope on it to allow condensate to drain out.
Other than that, if you want to get fussy, it would be a good idea not to have too much of it outside to act as a heat sink.... and you may want to cap most of the end of the pipe off except for an inch hole. This just so cold air / wind doesn't suck heat out of your garage through the pipe.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Thank-you Sir. 🌡I suppose home heating fuel-oil is just as clean if not cleaner than diesel?
I have an abundance of this fuel to use.
What about using a section of baseboard heater (copper pipe with aluminum fins).
That would be ideal ! As long as it is long enough. I think it would work at least twice as good as this, but that would still me an you need about an 8 foot baseboard heater.
I have been considering getting one for almost a year, but couldn't justify the cost.
What if you try use Alpine mode? leaner mixture might help when there is airflow restriction in burn chamber.
Yeah, I used alpine mode for this whole test, just for that reason 👍
It would be great if I had a programmable controller where I could control fuel and air independently.
I had an idea of running the exhaust into a water heat exchange system and then using a pump to push it through a small motorbike rad with a fan behind it. I think a larger exhaust pipe would help.
I just finished a test where I heated a tub of water to collect the heat. It was very effective at capturing the heat energy, though I did have some other issues...
What you are talking about can work really well if you set it up correctly. You need to make sure to have a large enough exchanger to actually collect all of the exhaust heat, or it will pass out the other end still hot.
A larger pipe helps with both flow and the ability to extract more heat, as the gasses flow more slowly and are exposed to more surface area.
@@loweredexpectations4927 great minds think alike. With so much heat loss through exhaust on these there are alot of options
I also had the idea to try a radiant tube heater design with a larger pipe as it would reduce chance of overheating the unit over a long exhaust distance as well. Or a pipe within a pipe and using a blower to push air between inner and outer pipe to pull the heat out and exchange it that way. These videos spark lots of ideas. I want to try building a used oil heater with a brake rotor as well.
@@thekiltedkamper2855 A few people have mentioned the pipe in a pipe idea... it has potential for sure. I know what you mean about videos sparking ideas... The same thing happens with me. I finish a project and I have 5 new ideas, haha.
For a heat ex changer, how about a metal tank with a large vent hole at the bottom (heat rises)?
For sure. If you have space for a 45 gallon drum or something like that, I'm sure it would work pretty well. There are lots of different ways to go about scavenging heat 👍
Man, your videos are great! I checked this one out because I'm using one of those long exhaust pipes with a few bends in it, and was wondering if that could be why my heater has some kind of fuel stink in my trailer. I've been trying to eliminate all stink related to my heater, and I'm running out of ideas.. I see people RTV the heck out of their unit, but I feel like if that were needed, the manufacturer would've spent the time doing that, and bumped up the price accordingly.
Yeah, I think those who RTV their heaters don't really understand how the heater works. I won't go into great detail, but there is positive pressure on the back side of the chamber, so a "leak" is unlikely to actually leak. Leaking air will go into the exchanger, not out of it.
If there isn't a positive pressure, and the chamber leaks fumes into the fan area, then there's no positive pressure to force the gasses out of the fan area. If there wasn't a positive pressure, then the air wouldn't be forced out through the "leaky" dan housing.
This will sound REALLY stupid, but I have had it happen many times. Diesel smell sticks to literally everything. Shirt, pants, shoes, gloves, skin. I will be sitting in my house and smell diesel for days, like I can taste it, and discover that I touched my phone after pouring diesel, and got some on my phone.
The same can be true with your heater... Clean the ducting, inside of the plastic case, outside of the exchanger etc, with brake and parts cleaner, and blow it off with compressed air... and be mindful when pouring diesel.
Not saying that's what happening with you, but that has been my experience.
@@loweredexpectations4927 haha! For sure... Just hearing the word "diesel" makes me smell it now. 😆 I'll try giving it a good scrub... You've inspired me to pick up those two air-quality detectors as well.. I bought one of those CO detectors from Home Despot before I ever turned the heater on, and so far it hasn't screamed at me... but I can definitely tell the air quality's impacted.
@@whalesmiff5712 I'm not sure how many hours are on your heater, but I also forgot to mention that they often have a nasty smell for the first 10-20 hours of hard use. I have been told this is a mold release agent they use for the plastic... I don't know, but I have experienced it on at least two of my heaters.
An air quality meter is good to have, for sure.. VOCs are really bad if you are exposed to them regularly... That being said, the human nose, while lacking compared to a dog, can detect some fumes, like gasoline, as little as one part per million, so smelling something isn't necessarily indication of something really bad.... Others, we are not so good at detecting.
@@loweredexpectations4927 So if I may bounce this scenario off of you... I've installed this all-in-one Silvel(tm) 8kw unit in my 6x12 (yankee feets) trailer using two thru-hull ports. My heater came from the factory touting 4300 RPMs @ 5.4 Hz.. I've been running this configuration and never saw any smoke and no startup issues, but my gut tells me (based on your confirmation about easy air-flow vs. forced air in a perfectly sealed chamber) that I need to tune it so that any reduced diameter caused by the thru-hull ports is accounted for in the new settings.. As it is, 5.4 Hz at the high setting sounds rich based on what others all over the internet have said. I know a lot of your videos are proof-of-concept outside of engineering specs, and I love that, but I'm also looking for reliability without leaving a corpse behind. 😆
@@whalesmiff5712 That is a good question. The reduced diameter may not be an issue if those are the only restrictions. The ports of the heaters are about 1/4 inch ID and the inlet port, if you look into it, is choked off substantially. If you have long runs of pipe, sharp 90º bends and 2 ports ... this could start to become an issue.
This will usually show up at elevated exchanger temperatures. If your heater had a read out, you should expect between 184 and 210C as fairly normal. I am at 3500 feet above sea level, so I am more likely to have issues with flow restriction, as I am already running rich.
Your best bet is to get a CO meter, hope that it is a legitimate CO meter and tune your heater so that it it is putting out no more than 30 PPM. You can get them really close to 0 if you take your time, and keep in mind that going to lean, though counter intuitive, will cause more CO. The reason being that the excess air cools off the chamber and leads to an incomplete burn.
hmmmm.. maybe a home brewed exhaust cut out...... and set it to one pipe like stock for start up..... an after it's hot... set it to flow out the full length
I did think of connecting it afterwards to see if the start up would be cleaner, I imagine it would be. A cut out should do the trick ! You could even get real fancy and have it temperature operated.
Is there a hole in the floor under the brick? How can the heater breathe? 🤷🏽♂️
I've had a few people ask about this. I tested it before the test and as the test got started. There is enough space around the 4 corners, apparently.
My heater normally runs at 210 C in normal and 184 in Alpine mode and I was getting those same numbers while sitting in the brick, so it can't be restricting too much.
Air blowing at 1 degree c will transport moisture away quicker than it can form would be my thought... add the heat and it wll be near impossible. You will have to pour a bit of water down the vertical exhaust, to try and get it down to a point where enough moisture can form... will be interesting to see if an exhaust pipe at the angle of a semi circle filled with water would bubble enough gas through to not burn out the chamber... measure the volume of liquid to its spill point before fitting it to the burner?
I'm not a physicist but what you are saying is a little off.
While temperature is one of the factors in determining condensation of water vapors, there is a lot more to it. The amount of humidity in the air being a major factor, as well as the temperature of the surface of the pipe.
At 30C if you have a glass of ice water, condensation will form on the outside of the glass...
It will be very interesting to see how hard it is to make it happen, but I assume that on a cold day, the cooling of the pipe will make it happen pretty quickly.
@@loweredexpectations4927 if sub zero then humidity is low normally, there is loads of different factors. I am thinking of water being poured into a hot exhaust or a freshly started one and seeing if the normal air fan speed can bubble through say a semi circle bend of say 1 foot 2 foot etc, and seeing what volume of water and then thus how much condensation it would take to stop it from working, 50ml, 100ml, even 300ml might have no pressure to block the exhaust gases from venting, and eventually steaming off if near the burn chamber, that could add silencing benefits? A lot of good questions and videos to see what the unit is capable of...
There are dips in your long exhaust that will be collecting condensate in your garage. As long as the exhaust temp is below the boiling point of water, the water vapor will condense in your test exhaust.
Yeah, I talked about this briefly near the end of the video. It's not actually boiling point that is the determining factor but this could become an issue for sure.
There are a number of factors that come into play like the wall temperature of the exhaust, the percent of moisture in the gasses and even barometric pressure.
I am going to do some testing to see what it takes to fill with condensate and shut off. It should be interesting.
Those Canadian Alps must not be as tall as the Alps in Europe. They sound a lot like the Ozarks like we have in the state of Missouri - Misery.
Haha... pretty much the same, yes.
Hi, I don't completely agree with you regarding the condensation in the exhaust pipe but for me, it doesn't cause problems because my pipes are stainless steel and the gases go outside ( I think you saw my little video).
How is your cat? I didn't see it in the last videos
Thanks for the comment ?
Is that exhaust cooler made specifically for that heater ? I'm guessing it is a EGR cooler, but It looks like it was meant for it. That is a beautiful setup you have !
How much water condensates out of your exhaust depends on a few factors, but your system appears to be working fine !
Quasar is fine. When I get really busy he shows up less in my videos, haha.
Use a Home Radiator... Mount it so you can drain the water build up... 2 sq meters per kilowatt... or 10 pounds of radiator per kilowatt...
Yes... this is a great option... I almost bought a radiator but the one I've been looking at is $240 and the pipe was $80. I have been looking at baseboard hydronic heaters for over a year, but would need a really long one.
This test is also for those who need to run a long exhaust and the heat exchanging effect is somewhat secondary.... maybe.
@@loweredexpectations4927 they are almost free on craigslist and you have to mount them horizontally so the water makes its way back and forth down the radiator to the bottom where you can drain it off....
If the purpose of this is to have a long exhaust run I have had good luck with pieces of copper.... As hard as it is to believe there are also flexible tubular products that can handle those types of temperatures.....
If you would like to get every BTU available use the radiator method and preferably the exhaust temperature will be the same as the room temperature...
There is nothing wrong with a long exhaust run as long as you have control over the frequency so you can do some fine-tuning if it gets a little bit out of range....
Which hydronic heaters are you looking at?
@@loweredexpectations4927
Quick ??? I have a blue controller and a 4 button remote non Bluetooth ,can you tell me how to pair them together 🙏 maybe make a short and I ll watch it twice 😉☺️😊
Haha... I hope you find out, so you can remine me ... I totally forget and don't know where my manual is.
Just asking, with the heater standing on end and pulling air through the cinder block, is there enough air flowing over the heat exchanger ?
That is a good question and the second time someone has asked.
I did make sure to test it before this video and also tested it at the first of this test. The heater normally runs 184 -186 in alpine mode and it was stable at 184. If there was a restriction it would have gone up considerably.
Good observation 👍
I got 5 ft at one born to be able to vent it all I did was Coke up once I went back to stoc pipe a cleared up
Hello. I'm guessing, based on my tests, that you must have other issues.
I mentioned at the first of this video that I ran my heater on alpine mode, and that I normally run on normal mode. If you are at higher elevation, you may have to do the same.
If you have an adjustable ECU that you can control air fuel ratio, you should have a CO meter and try to set it so that you have no more than 20-30 ppm.
You may have a restricted combustion air inlet, or it could be something completely different. If 16 feet works fine for me, 5 feet shouldn't be a problem for you.
First off thanks for your videos I find them very informative. Question ? If you're atomizer screen goes bad will it cause your heater to Rich burn ? And if so have you tried to make your own screens or can they be made
Hello.
Are you referring to the screen around the glow plug ? If so, then no, this shouldn't have any effect.
The atomizer around the glow plug is really only there to assist in starting of the heater and has no effect once it is up and running. The mesh behind the baffled area (primary burn chamber), can cause serious run problems if it gets plugged.
You can buy new meshes for each of these places, but only the glow plug mesh is easily replaceable.
@@loweredexpectations4927 is that the video where you cut the main burn chamber off ? Is there any way of cleaning in behind the main burn chamber or have to buy another one? Thanks for your replying
@@Wheel-1 Yes, in that video I cut the chamber open to clean it out. I have heard of a few people cutting them open to clean them out, but they will usually leak diesel after unless you weld it back together. There may be a better way that I haven't thought of yet.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Thanks again for the quick replies. My screen with glow plug is missing screen at bottom. I am having Rich burn at low or high temps . ( Black soot ) So I figure burn chamber is clogged somewhat
@@Wheel-1 I'm not sure what you mean by "missing screen at bottom." The screen is a tube and does not have a bottom.
You may be correct about the chamber being clogged. The next question is, how did your chamber get clogged. If you are burning diesel, this should not happen. Your heater may be running rich due to your elevation, or due to inlet or exhaust restriction.
The block that the heater is perched on appears to restrict air flow through the heater. Like not much clearance there.
If that’s the case, it could easily effect the outcome of the tests.
Yeah... I checked this for several hours in a previous test and it is fine. I also ran the heater before adding the exhaust and the expansion chamber was 184, the exact same temperature that it runs sitting upright.
I have seen so many "free energy" videos on these heaters but I'm pretty sure that I paid about $35 for 20 litres of diesel.
Haha... yes, exactly !
@@loweredexpectations4927 Really like your no BS approach and you're very entertaining!
@@LoudandclearRC 🤟
Would it make more sense to dissipate / reclaim the heat from the exhaust with a long tube, or by attaching heat dissipating fins to the existing exhaust tube?
Thanks for the comment.
The main goal of this video / test was to see how much exhaust a person could use if they needed to. Checking to see how much heat was reclaimed was just a side quest.
There are many different / better ways to reclaim lost heat. Most of those ways are more costly, more labour intensive and difficult... but the savings can be substantial.
Is there a reason that you leave a 90 degree bend at the beginning of the exhaust run? Seems to me that without it (all straight run) would be less resistance & maybe less taxing to the heater temps. 🤷
I ran the 90 because it is more realistic. Most people are going to have at least one good beld like this, to get the exhaust pointed where they want it. More bends is definitely more restriction.
A tunable ecu where you can bump up the fan speed would probably be able to keep your carbon monoxide lower
Absolutely. You can always reduce fuel or try increasing fan speed.
A quirk of these heaters is that the blower fan runs at the same rpm as the combustion fan - so you have two key parameters stuck together, limiting tunability of the device.
@@ArifGhostwriter yes your correct but the older controller allows you to tune the fan (yes both fans together) to the pump speed. So if you have a more restrictive exhaust you can compensate for that. The speed of the heat exchanger fan doesn't really affect how it's burning as long as it's cool enough.
@@ArifGhostwriter While the fans are linked, the exchanger fan plays no role in the tuning of the heater. It changes how much air flows over the exchanger, but this doesn't have any effect on the tuning. An increase in fan speed will carry away more heat and make the exchanger cooler, but the temperature of the exchanger doesn't change the tuning of the heater.
What it can do, is make it harder to track changes, as you can't be sure if your temp change is because of your AFR or your fan speed change. This is why using a CO meter is a good idea for tuning. It tells you what is happening in the burn chamber.
If you had a 4 port 1” adapter/header/manifold, you could put the 4 tubes on at the same point, reducing the restriction, and all 4 tubes would have the same higher temperature. 👍🏼
This is a good idea and would reduce the restriction. As for the same heat in all 4, that part is not correct. You have X about of heat energy and it will be distributed between the total amount of pipe regardless of how you install it.
Basically, the average will be the same. In this set up, the first pipe is really hot and the last one is cooler. WIth all 4 in parallel the pipes would all the same temperature, but that temperature would be lower.
The pipes in parallel will all be at a somewhat higher temperature than last 2 or 3 sections when in series, without the flow restriction. More heat being released closer to the source. ie first tube is obviously hotter than the second tube and so on, when in series. It would be an interesting test. 👍🏼👍🏼
@@markcoyle8003 Yeah, it will be hotter at the entrance of each pipe.
There are a lot of things that come into play here. The pipe getting hotter means the gasses have given off energy, and they are able to do this most efficiently when the temperature differential is the highest. The pipe getting hotter means that that energy is no longer available, so the gasses downstream are cooler, meaning less effective at getting rid of their energy.
The 4 pipes in parallel means the gasses travel 4x slower, so have more time to give off that energy, but also travel 1/4 of the distance and are exposed to the exact same surface area of pipe while taking the journey.
It would be interesting for sure, to see what the actual numbers would end up being, haha.
All good. If you can find an old 4 cylinder header, chop chop and some aluminum tape…. LoL. Have fun with it. Maybe add a fan. Good content. I’m sure Vevor loves it too. Happy testing. 😁
@@markcoyle8003 That would be awesome ! haha. I have some jet ski exhaust systems that are aluminum and have water jackets.... that's perhaps a good idea, haha.
Put a muffler on the end and watch how hot the pipe gets.
Like, on the very end of the last section ?
@@loweredexpectations4927 I had about 6' of pipe. The last 2 was through a wall and outside. Had it wrapped with the heat resistant stuff. Ran without a muffler with no problems. Put a muffler on because not sure if I'm retarded or curious but after I did it caught fire where pipe went through the wall. Luckily the wellpit and hose was right there I got to be a fireman for a while.
i use a water base board for ex to capture heat
Nice ! They have a 3/4 inch pipe I assume ? How long is yours ?
Would a baseboard radiator be possible? I believe they use a 3/4 water pipe.
I have wanted to try this for quite some time. The smooth pipe may allow it to breath feely enough, but I can't say for sure. You could T off into two shorter ones instead of one long one.
Thinking trying this. My plan is to run the heater in a room and run the exhaust through the floor and heat the small 10 x 10 pump room with exhaust pipe . Free heated space. Enjoy the channel. Way beyond my expectations. Well done. Super interesting topics.
@@2002drumsonly As long as you don't catch your floor on fire 👍 I suppose it depends on how you incorporate this.
Have you tried running the heater for a 24 hour period or a week straight none stop?
Not with this setup, no.
What if you run exhaust back in intake? Would there bee volitals that would return
You mean like EGR on a car ... that would work of there was anything left in the exhaust left to burn, but from all the testing I have done, there really isn't anything left in the exhaust fumes.
@@loweredexpectations4927 well it was a thought anyway lol
You didn't account for the new pipe junk burning off initially did you? Maybe why initial readings a bit higher?
I didn't think of that. It could be a contributing factor for the first one, but after the second and third, the temps were too low to burn anything off.
The way that the heater restarted with a lot of smoke, and then calmed down to normal, leads me to believe that it has something to do with the mass of air in the pipe when it cold vs warm.
exactly my thoughts. after burning the residue off the exhaust gets pretty clean
@@kurtwagner16 That could be the case, but I'm not sure what would be burning off at such low temperatures and making CO... I could understand the TVOC shooting up, not so sure about CO.
@@loweredexpectations4927 i don't think that its really burning off, rather vaporizing some residue.
Another thing is, that when you do a exhaust examination/test (idk how to call it in english) on a car. And you have water in the exhaust, that the co skyrockets (like when there is a lot of condensation build up in a muffler or so).
@@kurtwagner16 Yeah. Vaporising residu shouldn't cause CO. CO is a byproduct of poor combustion.
I'm not sure about the CO and moisture. I do know that moisture is generally present in an exhaust when it is cool, and when your exhaust is cool, the catalytic converters won't be working well. Once it is heated up and the cats are working the CO will be lower and the moisture wii not condense as easily.
Hmm. Build a new box that has another Burn chamber and make that exhaust go through the inlet and then it will heat up that part and the fan wil spread the heat.
I'm going to be honest.... I don't know what you mean, haha.
@@loweredexpectations4927 he has a smart idea... You use a second heater as heat exchanger, exhaust silencer and with active fan as a kind of turbo...
@@sjococo🤔I have already done this and have a video on it... Just without the long pipe.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I thought I have seen all ur videos but must have missed that. What I meant was the exhaust to be connected to the air inlet pipe on another heater and then having a fan just blowing, but in retrospect it's not most likely gonna give much warmth. I've seen guys with old radiators and all that stuff. I think it's lots of great ideas floating around but in hindsight just hassle for not much. Unless you need warm water to wash up your hands after a day messing around in that workshop.
@@RimjobHimself I will leave a link to the video in another comment. I did tis with a 2 and 5 kw heater.
I wonder if you were to run the exhaust into a catalytic converter and harvest the heat off of it?
This is dependant on two things, that we don't have in our favor.
1. There is stuff in the exhaust to be burned (CO & VOC) due to incomplete combustion. Based on my numbers, there is very little that isn't burning in the heater.
2, The cat needs to be kept hot enough to operate and depends largely in the process of catalyzing to keep it hot. The outlet temp of the exhaust is just barely hot enough so this could be tricky.
To get this to work, you might be able to purposely run the heater rich so that you have unburnt fuel going out the exhaust. You can buy catalytic heaters that run on propane.
@@loweredexpectations4927 for the sake of experimenting, maybe run it rich (or lean?)until the CC gets up to temp and then dial it back. If a guy came across a CC for zero dollars or close to it could be a fun experiment.
@@gordon6029 I have been wanting to try this. Last year I put a tiny one inside the burn chamber (off a weed trimmer) in an attempt to burn waste motor oil... It was a fail but no one was surprised, including me, haha.
Come on !!! Why didn't you get some baseboard radiators , but the best if you have hydronic heating are to pass the exhaust through the boiler 😁👍🥶 you can burn waste oil if it's cleaned !! internet has how to convert waste er engine oil to diesel , good luck
I would love to have some baseboard heaters... I have been looking at them for about a year and recently looking at wall mount radiators. That would be awesome.
Haha... Waste oil to diesel is something I would love to attempt... not so sure that I want to do that within the city limits on any scale, though.
@@loweredexpectations4927
I really are not a fan of baseboard heaters but the are Dirt cheap 😁 prefer hydronic central heat with underfloor hearing, or normal radiators
@@loweredexpectations4927
Afraid of resistance in the exhaust use non corrugate pipe or Chinese a larger size 😁
Spiral the exhaust tube like a screw, and point it up or down to get a chimney effect. Put the exit end up and you could use the same coiled pipe for your condensation test.
I do plan on doing this in my next exhaust video.
Why .. WHY do you Install the heater vertical ???
So no suprise you get issus with that. Oh man ...
Did you leave a comment before watching the video... ?
yea it sux when your stainless pipe rust on first use
My pipe didn't rust, but the inserts that I made out of black pips did have some rust.
Right at minute two i do already miss a somewhat logical point. Not the max blast is in the most danger of not to get through the tube without having neagtive effects, but the minimum blast highly is.
Now i watch the rest and we'll see.
I'm not sure what you mean ? Are you talking about running in Alpine mode ?
@@loweredexpectations4927 No - at lowest setting.
In a milder clima than yours a heater makes far more hours in low range. Whilst temperature is above freezing most of the time here, for instance, humidity is the chilling issue. Plus 5 C° with high humidity is very unpleasant - that's where my heater get's the 24/7 use at 1,2hz for weeks.
@@werner.x OH ! Well... In the lower setting it will have less effect, and because the exhaust gasses are moving slower, the tubing would be a more effective heat exchanger.
The restriction of the exhaust, just like in a car depends on how much you are trying to force through it. On the low setting your heater is idling away and mine is pulling a trailer up a hill on the highway.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I do get problems with only one of my setups - the one with heat exchanger. And only in lowest setting.
But this started with heating oil, not with Diesel fuel - which is extra clean these times.
But my other heater without heat exchanger, which does way more hours at lowest setting, because it just heats the trailer, not the shop, didn't develop these problems with red heating oil.
So, there is a relation to slower fan power versus higher flow resistance, i guess - as soon as the fuel gives any chance for soot.
As i said, it started the second heating season after burning maybe 150l of red heating oil.
@@werner.x That's very interesting. Is the residu in the exhaust, the chamber or both ? That is very counter intuitive.
This must have something to do with the efficiency of the fan at lower speeds. The resistance, though less, is enough to cause issues.
I can't remember if you have a controller with the engineering menu / the ability to control air fuel ratio... If so, increasing minimum fan speed should help.
I have the same controller like you and that is DEAD ON 210 C EVERY TIME
Haha... yes, this is because you are running it on normal mode, I assume ? Not on Alpine mode with the little blue mountain.
This ECU has a built in limiter that kicks in at 210C. It slows the pump down until the temp drops to 208 and starts pumping fast again. The controller lags behind, so the numbers don't always change, but I can hear my pump speed change.... If I am in normal mode.
When I am in alpine mode, my heater runs at 184 - 186C What is your elevation ?
@@loweredexpectations4927 im at 400 moh and if i turn on elevation it runs at 206-208. So i prefer no elevation and that extra heat.
Actually pretty smart ecu.
If i put on the plastic part on the hose wich direct the air it will destrict some air and the heater will get warmer and immideately slow down to 210 again. With the other heater i can run that on 5000 rpm at 6.0 hertz and have about 215 without the air adjust in the end of hose and with the air direct plastic thing it will run at 225 about and i prefer that as my workshop will heat up so much faster. They actually seem to draw about same amount to be fair running like this. But having the ability to force the heater to run at 5000 is great as it moves that air inside my place so quick. Its 6 am now here, i decided to have a early start today as ive slept great and just started my 2 bad boys here from the comfort of my bed with 2 cats snuggling up to me. :)
@@loweredexpectations4927 I'm at 445 meters.
I’m surprised it doesn’t soot up and quit
I would have thought so too. I think if there are bends in it, that will make a huge difference.
@@loweredexpectations4927
So I installed a hot plate like you did and it sooted up in about 3 hours. I purchased a blower from Amazon and now it runs great. I don’t know how to adjust the new Vevor models to get the fuel air ratio correct I figure it’s factory settings error.
@@daronwheeler2768 You force air in the inlet with the blower ?
Most new heaters do not have the ability to adjust the fan and fuel independently. This was intended to be for elevation compensation, and now most have a "alpine mode" or automatic elevation compensation.... Not ideal if you like to tinker.
@@loweredexpectations4927
Yes I hooked up a little blower to the inlet.