Diesel Heater Waste Oil Conversion - One Last Hurrah ! Will it work ?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2024
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Actual Description: This is basically part 3 of my testing of ... this idea, that turns into another idea. - Авто та транспорт
Most excellent achievement. I don't know what magical metal the base of the burn chamber is, but I agree it's very hard.
Thanks Dave. Sad to see you giving up on this, but I totally understand... It is frustrating and pretty brutal... Messy, stinky and ... messy.
Thanks for sending folks my way and for watching. I appreciate it.
I am running into problems due to my lack of independent fuel and fan control. I need at minimum different ECUs and ideally that Turbo Heat thing.
I'm a sucker for punishment... on with the show.
Great stuff, Glad you know David!
@@Spencer1609751 If I didn't know who David was, could I really claim to know ANYTHING about diesel heaters. He is the king of diesel heaters... and much more.
@loweredexpectations4927 David is the King of Diesel Heaters! That's how I learned the tricks of them to use on the SPHEROS 350 coolant heaters I work on.
Fun stuff! I admire you sticking to this project when it takes SO much fiddling.
I really enjoy tinkering ... if that wasn't clear, haha. Otherwise, I would have gone nuts a long time ago.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Ha ha that makes sense. I hear that. When I get into something, I typically go full send as well.
I thank you for all your hard work and dedication I'm interested in diesel heaters
Thanks ! I appreciate your comment.
it's like "the curse of Oak Island" or all the "Bigfoot" shows. I'm convinced it won't work... but if it does I wanna be there to see it! Keep it coming! Prove me wrong!
LOL... I love the creative comments I've been getting lately ! Fantastic.
I hope you aren't too disappointed if it "works". At this point... I'm not really sure what success would look like. I'm going for a week of daily operation without cleaning.
I love you're burning waste oil Videos.❤ I can't get enough of those! 😊👍
Awesome... Good to hear !
@@loweredexpectations4927 they are awesome! 🤗
I'm so happy to see your channel is doing so well now
Yeah... it has come a LONG way in just over a year. I hope it keeps growing.
this takes me back to when I used to operate an old furnace used to heat crude oil, it had 42 burners that could run oil or gas, it was a terrifying beast, whet turning gas on or off you could get blowback giving a bang like a cannon with 3mtr flame face height, burning oil could give unburnt fuel in furnace with pools of unburnt fuel under the furnace, all operators were extremely wary of the beast. Never understood how we were allowed to run such a hazard
Wow ! That sounds incredible, and frightening ! I'm guessing that this was a very old furnace.
Video length and content are a good mix. Very clear. Thanks.
Thanks ! I appreciate it.
I was the dysfunctional Student a Year Ago . Look at me now paying attention and Shit ... LoL , well done Joel . I look forward to many more Teachings ... Professor. Hahaha
From mulching with your lawnmower too a brilliant scientist 😅
At 12:30 why does that 3 cylinder engine look like all 3 cylinders are at TDC.?
HAHA... the dysfunctional students fit in best around here... but we can always make an exception for a do gooder, haha !
Haha.. This doesn't mean I won't be doing more mulching !
Vevor
Keep climbing that mountain!
It is quite the mountain...
Great idea to use the second ecu and pump. Much more better control on the fuel/oil.
Look forward to your work.
Yes... fine adjustment is necessary for this ... I think I may need ECUs that have independently adjustable fuel and fan speed... but I'm going to give it a go.
Black diesel... Is most likely the closest you will get. If you search " Black diesel " you will find lots of ratios, some as low as a pint of diesel to 5 gals of waste oil. Good Luck thx for sharing
Yeah. I have tried so many different mixtures. I have a whole series of videos, over 30, trying to burn waste oil with, diesel, gasoline, methanol, varsol etc.
Thanks for your comment.
I still run 40% waste oil /veggie/whatever isn't gelled at 15 degF, 50% virgin diesel/jet A/ heating oil (preference) and 10% petrol in the main burn, 100% heating oil (or 95% ho 5% petrol) manifolded so that I start on heating oil and switch to main oil mix after I get to temperature and 5 min before shutting down. Startup and shut down are full power. Now I use 2-55 gal drums to hyper filter the mix before transferring to a 3rd mix tank. Full power all day for 10 days. 😊 cheap enuf to change each at end of season, overhaul and set aside old ones for next year or scrap for parts.
I hope to try veg oil at some point, on a large scale. I currently have over 400L of waste engine oil that I either need to dispose of, or find a way to burn it, haha. I'd much rather burn it.
Do you have a 2/5/8KW unit ?And do you run it at medium or max power?Mine ran at low power and input was 85'C, which felt fine, but it broke at only 200h of working. Second unit I ran with bursts of max power to give it a longer life, but it broke at only 150h, only pure diesel. Refuses to start burning. What is wrong?
@@rene8177 Your experiences is the one that I hear from literally dozens of people. I'm not sure what is so different about G bears set up... maybe someday he will make some videos and show us all... Veg oil has a lot of glycerine and this does not like to burn... this is why it is removed in the biodiesel process.
I'm looking forward to the next attempt with the 2 ECU'S , that will be really cool if it works well.
I'm about 98% sure that I will need to get a new ECU that allows me to adjust AFR, but with my current setup, I am drip feeding one, and having to restrict pump flow with the other.... not at all idea.
There is a guy in the UK making device called the Turbo something... it is in the prototype stages, and it allows you to run two pump sand so all sorts of different rations and clean out burns... very cool.
Joel, I'm assuming that you have watched some waste oil wood stove videos that people have made - to help you come up with this latest idea. Either way - you need a needle valve to better control the waste oil feed. More so since you are using a pump to deliver the waste oil vs drip feed. (I'm not claiming to be any expert - by any means. I've simply have gone down the rabbit hole watching a lot of videos to find the best way for me to heat a large garage space.) My 2 cents worth is to take what is known that works with those style of waste oil drip feed heating units and apply them to what you are doing and I think you will really have something. It might also get you there faster too. I look forward to more videos. All the best, Tony
Silly ME = LOL I posted the above comments only part way into this video. I went off to fix me something for breakfast. I returned around 6minutes in, to find you telling us what all you were doing. Then I see what happen to the chamber... OH my... (I should have waited - but at my age I thought I forget my train of thought. LOL) I hope you put a needle valve - for more control on both and not just on the one pump as it is now. All the Best Joel. Sincerely, Tony
Yeah... I have a needle valve on my diesel, but not on my oil.
These pumps are very accurate and ... very low flow rate... It takes about 3 pulses of the pump to make one drip of fuel, so the resolution of the pump is about 3 times greater than the drip system.
I have watched some of those videos, and there is some stuff to learn for sure... The biggest differences being that they generally burn a lot more fuel and can afford not to be very efficient, and there is lots of room for crud to build up, without causing flow problems.
Haha... It's all good. I comment before the end of every video, before I forget what I'm going to say.
Hi Joel. The problem with all alternate fuels is first the dirt plugs the pumps and second the amount of ash produced requires constant cleaning. Your solution of an air lift pump is a good one. Your choice to then push the dirty oil through a nozzle is not. We have solved the problem by using the 50 year old method of Babington. And a simple 3-5psi gasoline lift pump to move the dirty oil. The other huge success we learned is from the screen around the gloplug. You have the same SS mesh that we use, BUT you are not using it in the same way we are. You are using a sleeve with a hole in it to pass the oil thru. We use 2 flat disks of SS screen which get red hot and we drip the oil onto these SS screens. This turns the yellow flame you have to white with blue tips. No more orange/yellow in the flame at all. This was an accidental discovery which somehow reduces the ash by 80-90%. Our burner is VERTICAL, not horizontal and exits first into a vertical tank, similar to a 30lb propane tank. The exhaust leaves from the top of the tank, the ash collects in the bottom of the tank...... We have another system on the side of a wood stove which works equally as well and can go months between cleaning. It uses the same 3psi gasoline pump dripping on a modified Babington ball with 2 X 0.010 air holes in it. The burner is a piece of 3" SS schedule 40 pipe with a strong back on it as it was drooping from the heat. No screen or mesh needed. Both of these system can benefit from your use of the CDH ECM, but neither of them need it. Both of them have been running for years. No thought has ever been given to cost or volume of oil burned as our supplies are unlimited. The first system is waste engine oil and the second is used fryer oil. The shop Cummins 1T also starts on diesel, runs on fryer oil and shuts down on diesel. 6 years on it now. I know it is fun to re-invent the wheel every few years, but we find it more fun to take where the last guy stopped and improve from there. I gave the fried with the shop wood stove my design and 2 months later went to check up on him. What he was using did not remotely resemble my drawings. When I ask him why, his response was that my (proven 30 year old design) did not work worth a shit. I absolutely agree.
Hey, thanks for your detailed comment.
I have surprisingly not had any pump issues... I'm more shocked than anyone... I have been using the same pump for nasty old oil, gasoline, methanol, paint thinner, haha... nothing seems to bother it.
The ash is a real problem, for sure. Part of the intended service extension is to burn the oil in a place where it will effect the operation of the heater, less, when it builds up.
I'm not sure if you are referring to my current two chamber design (in regards to the nozzle), but my current design don't use any sort of restricted nozzle... the oil comes out of a 3mm hole.
The stainless mesh has been suggested in that manar a few times before. I have tried installing stainless mesh, discs and other bits of stuff, and nothing I use can withstand the conditions of the burn chamber. Everything I use turns to dust, or melts.
I'm not sure what it is about these heaters that makes them much more stubborn than your average heater, but they often do not react how you would expect. I suspect this is partly the small volume, the fact that the inlet and outlet are only about 19mm 1/4 inch, and because they burn such a extremely small amount of fuel ... you are working with extremely small variables. Max fuel consumption is about 396 ml per hour (0.1 gallons per hour) and a theoretical max of 633ml/h (0.17 G/h)
I really hope to live outside of the city some day and build a proper waste oil burner... I don't' feel comfortable doing it where I am.... and I have two natural gas heaters as is... The CDH is a hard nut to crack and has become a hobby of mine, haha.
You need to use something like titanium-stabilized 409 Series stainless-steel if you want high thermal survival. 304 stainless can work also
Thanks for your comment.
I'm sure there is some stainless that would hold up. I tried 304 last year when trying to make a ... flow restrictor, we will call it, and it didn't hold up to well. The intro on some of my ideos has a quick shot of a 304 stainless washer on a bolt that is falling apart.
Nice work. Very interesting.
Thanks !
Keep up the good work 👏
Thanks... the struggle is real !
An idea I've thought of is using 2 fuel pumps in parallel (assuming the mosfet on the motherboard has the power to drive 2 fuel pumps in parallel). But having the secondary burn oil pump only kick on when the heater is up to temp (using a 12v thermostat relay). You can 'adjust' the amount of fuel injected by getting a smaller fuel/larger cc pump
Or even better the silent dose pump controller that you can adjust, have you seen them?
I agree with inconel or stainless steel for the burn chamber if you can buy some / tig weld.
Or perhaps nickel plating the burn chamber? (its really easy to do, and have a higher melting point than steel)
Edit: just watched to the end, 2 ECU's would also work!
Hey, thanks for the comment.
There are ways to use two pumps with one ecu, but it isn't as simple as plugging both in, or the ECU will see the different resistance as a fault and shut down. Or at least I assume this is the case, based on previous tests.
Some ECUs may only detect a complete short or open circuit, while others are more sensitive to changes. I do like your idea... A thermostat controlled secondary pump would be cool. Perhaps I can get some sort of pulse generator for the second pump and set it up this way.
I have seen Peristaltic pumps ... is that what you mean. That would also be cool. Not sure if the average one will hold up to diesel. I'm sure you can get them though.
Haha... let's hope 2 ecus works. I will still have to put a restrictor on one, or get one that has access to changing the AFR.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Ah I see, I'm sure you could fool the board with the two pumps by wiring in some resistors in parallel / series depending on what its expecting.
Yes peristaltic, thats the word I couldnt think of, David Mcluckie has a video on the, Search silent pump for diesel heater.
Yes or set up your own pulse control, I was going to use an arduino / 12v mosfet and then a potentiometer to adjust pulse speed.
@@ratgreen Interesting. I've watched all of his videos, and either missed that one or forget it....
Would the Arduino would act as the pulse generator and the mosfet would handle the actual load to the pump ? Someone else suggested a 555 timer, but I have no idea what that even is 🤣
No worries I own the rotary tool for over a year (very nice upgrade over the dremel) and 2kw diesel heater waiting to be installed
Awesome ! They are great tools. What are you installing the heater in ?
@@loweredexpectations4927 Most likely a Aixam D-truck I'm probably buying soon.
@@Fantaman900 I had to look up what that was, haha. Neat !
Good job!
Thanks man !
If you didn't watch first video then this one doesn't have any sense, no video makes any sense 😂😅Just joking you are diesel heater hero 👍can't wait for 3rd one 🎸👍
LOL... That was great. Like I say "If you want to see more nonsense like this, subscribe" haha.
I'm not sure if I want to release one for Saturday / Sunday, or wait a while until after some longer term testing.... not sure yet.
@loweredexpectations4927 sure I'm subscribed, this week or next one, I just know I will see one day running your diesel heater on waist oil 😎😊
@ Haha... keep those fingers and toes crossed !
Great engineering right there really interesting. I kinda like these long videos where you go into detail :D you can buy sight glasses for gas or diesel heater that you can cover the hole and have the advantage of seeing the inside
Thanks ! I have looked around for a suitable sight glass and was able to find some that were $200 - $500 ... they need to be pyrex or something like that.
@@loweredexpectations4927 damn they are expensive in Canada I think. I gave it a quick Google search and found a few ranging around 40-50€ for gas heater..
Awesome as usual
Thanks ! I appreciate it !
Sorry about the disappointing test, but I'm sure you have a disappointment callous by now. Anxious to see how the dual ECU approach works out. Best of luck!
Haha.. yes... I'm often disappointed. I think it's an important part of life. Bust your ass working on something and expect that most of it will end in failure... try to learn from it and move on, haha.
Thanks !
Something I've been thinking about for a long time; have you considered putting an air nozzle in the burn chamber to blow the ash/crud out? Maybe a quick burst of compressed air every few minutes to clear stuff out before it can accumulate. An electric valve and timer could automate it.
I haven't done exactly this, but I have run compressed air in with the OEM fuel line. I will leave the link in another comment. The problem with any burst of air, is that it puts the flame out. Anything more than 20psi (if I remember correctly)
Even when using fairly low pressure, any abrupt changes could cause it to flame out, so a burst of air would be a problem.
If the chamber was so hot, that it could reignite the fuel after the blast of air, then this wouldn't be a problem, but these heaters struggle to get hot enough to burn oil at all, so when they flame out using oil, it's a real mess.
GREAT VIDEO, It getting better and better all the time .ps, if it was me I think I would put the diesel kleen octane booster in oil it's helped me alot but I'm just running diesel
Thanks for the comment !
I'm actually running two different diesel additives mixed in with the waste oil I am using. I have used them in the past (last year) and have a video on each of them. I have a Canadian company that just shipped me out some additive to test. Should be interesting.
@@loweredexpectations4927 cool I didn't realize you were running additive, Your going to get this I can feel it. I tried but I was using 20w50 out of my bike lol I have some 5w20 I might try .
@@gregorykucera4235 Haha.. yeah. I am using old lawnmower oil and it is pretty nasty.
Burning waste oil, is getting less popular, unless its your own engine oil , and you know its NOT synthetic. My buddy who has a waste oil furnace heating his house for 30 years is having problems getting burnable waste oil. He actually was asking how my solar setups were working, and then I told him about solar water heating 😊
Yeah, I can see that being a problem. I currently have over 400L of my own oil as I run a small engine repair business. It is nasty stuff, but not synthetic.
I have an idea I’m not sure if you have explored… film cooling like is in a jet engine. In the compressor section of a turbine, the blades in the compressor section of a modern engine take bleed air from the compressor and the air is expelled from little holes in the blade that provide a thin layer of air that’s cool which decouples the hot air from the blade surface. I haven’t figured how to do that yet but it’s the idea I’m working on.
That could work. The additional oxygen may also make things worse... it all depends on how effective the cooling is.
Yea my thoughts as well. It would have to burn fuel rich in the main chamber.
Well the more I think about it if you keep the film layer laminar enough it would keep the metal from oxidizing by keeping the temp low enough. That’s the way turbines do it.
@@shawnrinkel8377 Yeah... if it is able to keep the temp low enough, problem solved.
I believe the better quality burn chambers are made from austenitic stainless steel alloys such as 21-2N and 21-4N. The cheaper heaters seem to get some lower grades of stainless, even cheap alloys.
The ultimate material to use for burn chamber parts would be Iconel (718) steel.
I may have to find myself some inconel to play with.
Please finish that siphon nozzle project... will work perfect...
It will work perfect in a custom made waste oil burner, but I'm not so sure that it will work well in a Chinese Diesel Heater... There may not be enough combustion air allowed in or enough exhaust flow out to support proper combustion... but I am going to give it a go.
Are you aware of the old style heavy oil burners who has a tapered rotating funnel, that draw out a very thin film of oil thats easy to ignite
👍 I think it will also leave a lot of residue , so converting waste oil to diesel may be the way to go
I have not seen that style of heater... Very interesting.
This waste oil I am using will absolutely leave a lot of residue. I have experienced this first hand many times. The idea of these mods isn't to make a system that doesn't require any maintenance, but to make something that extends service intervals.
Converting waste oil is on my long list of things to do, but it's not something that the average person can do, and I have been trying to stick to that theme.
I want to see more about that Mazdapseed3 👀
The Mazdaspeed is fun. I drive silly when I drive it, so I don't drive it much... and it's not mine, haha. It has a COBB tuning tuner and exhaust system... Apparently about 300HP when it is cranked up all the way.
Fellow Speed3 owners here. Nice to see another one.
I cut the screen from the air intake side of the heater out makes the heater less noisy. I know thats irrelevant when you have the exhaust in the same spot as the heater itself but might be good to know for other folks. Please excuse my bad spelling
Greetings from Germany
Your english and spelling is top notch. Well done. I have noticed that it makes it a LOT louder. That is a good idea.
More nonsense! I love it. I have 2 diesel heaters. Im sure i will never run oil to them, but it is still interesting.
If you never run them on oil, you are many times less likely to have issues... so that's smart ...
I think I am close to being able to run my heater on waste oil for perhaps a week before cleaning... but I don't expect it to be something that I can just push a button on and leave it go. It will likely take tinkering to get it going, and regular checks to make sure it's not going totally out of control.
I think you should announce that May 1 or close to that date you will try your sea doo again! That vid was also awesome!
Haha.... We will see what life brings, and when the water becomes liquid again. I may have to move in the next few months, and if I do, that will throw a major wrench in the gears.
Sooooooo.......
I suppose if a guy was to wonder why some widget is so expensive, all they need to do is refer to this video series to find out why...
It is the hours upon hours of trial and error. The material, the tools, and the tenacity to see if something will work all with NO guarantee of even being paid minimum wage for the hours spent on a particular project.
Ok, in this particular case, UA-cam is subsidizing some of the cost, however, in most instances the trial and error along with the critical thinking are done away from a camera.
This is a unique insight....
Haha.. yes, I suppose that is true... However, I will get a lot of people saying "why didn't you" or "why don't you..."
I sometimes go through 4 or 5 different ideas in a single day, so setting up to run my heater "permanently" in any one configuration, or spending a bunch of money for exotic materials doesn't make sense, until you know if the general idea makes any sense at all.
I am grateful for UA-cam, and the income isn't nothing, but a video that gets 5000 views earns me about $30. My first diesel heater video has about 50k views and it just about paid for the heater, haha.
I do it because I really enjoy it, and the income gives me some sort of justification, haha. Thanks for your thoughtful comment !
use fiberglass exhaust wrap as a wick in your second burn chamber
That could help. I have installed some stainless mesh in there for my most current testing.
If you take some sodium hydroxide drain cleaner and water at a 2 parts water to 1 parts sodium hydroxide. you can soak the flex shaft burr bit in that for a min or 3 and the aluminum will melt off of any bit. I always have a cup full on my bench to clean bits up.
Right on ! I have done this in the past with muriatic acid. (pool ph). Basically diluted hydrochloric acid. I used to use it as a mechanic to remove aluminum off of cylinder walls when the engines had catastrophic failures.
I wonder if Easy Off oven cleaner would work?
@@billparker8954 It might... I think it is basically an acid in a foam. Probably good at removing carbon but not the white reposits... whatever that is.
I think what is happening with the choo choo train effect is the waste oil pot is too hot and the small amount of fuel that the pump trickles in is being burned too fast, most oil burner pots need to have the oil in a puddle inside. I would let the chamber fill with a little oil while the heater is starting up, and once the oil is burning, let the pump rip and shut down the diesel. Maybe even let the pump handle diesel and use the dripper for oil.
Yes... I think this is basically right... I also think that the fuel is vaporized and pushed out of the heater before it has time to mix with air and burn. The fact that it is black smoke indicates it is burning, just not a complete burn... however, when it went blue, that indicates it flamed out.
If the fuel were dropped to the bottom of my waste oil pot, I think it would have a better chance of combining with the air, but as it was, the air was just pushing it out instead of mixing with it and burning.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can make a chamber, of that design, that can withstand the conditions in the burn chamber.
Awesome vid…
Thank you !
11:12 stainless steel
Maybe some sort of fancy stainless. I tried 304 and 316 last year and neither of them held up too well.
As in waste oil burners ,heat the oil too 150/160 F that worked in my Becket veg oil conversion.
Thanks for the comment.
Veg oil is a little different, and waste oil burners are very different. I am trying to make this more like a waste oil burner by providing extra space for the oil to leave crud behind as well as a hot space for it to flash off.
WOW, very hot ! I wonder how long before the aluminum exchanger melts 😮
Haha... if that happens, it will make for a cool video !
I got a bunch of waste oil and just got my 3rd heater... still sticking with strait diesel for now. Soooooo, are you going to create/design an aftermarket burn chamber to market, that's capable of burning waste oils w/o clogging up???
At best, I think I may create something that needs cleaning once every week, or few weeks, and when you do clean it, it will be easier... and you won't need a new chamber.
I have not done testing with ATF or Hydraulic oil, but have heard from a few people, that they have had success with these things.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I just got my new 3rd heater in case I clog up the bedroom or mainroom heaters expermenting with waste oil. If I could buy a 6 pack of disposable burn chambers on Amazon in the 100$ range I would be money ahead (not buying diesel)
You might make MILLIONS with your design, better get a patent🤣
It would be cool if it would last a month, don't like the idea of weekly maint/cleaning. Will they last longer cutting the fuel oil w gas?...petrol*
@@autojohn-pu1vf I think how long it lasts between cleanings largely depends on what oil you are using. I am using the most nasty lawnmower engine oil on earth, likely... If you use just about anything else, I suspect it would be better, haha.
I am very much in the early stages of testing for this new setup, and feel like I can make a lot of improvements. I like to test things to the point of failure, before I try to improve, so that I know if my "improvements" actually had any effect.
@@autojohn-pu1vf Putting stuff on UA-cam is putting stuff in the public domain, so patents are not possible, unless I find some very secret design and don't publish it on YT... However, my goal is to make something that the average person can do, so... 🤷♂
Another good one 👍🏻👍🏻👑👑🤟🏻👑🤟🏻
Thanks King !
A tea light burning inside a soup can will trick an ECU to run. Put your temp sensor on the top of the can. I haven't figured out how to not have the fan running running though. 🙃
Haha... yes... Tricking the heat sensor won't be too bad... I may try running a light bulb or something, with the fan output.
I saw a video of a guy who had a heater taken apart and operating on a display board.
@@kirkwalsh1932 Haha... like they do with brain surgery...
@@loweredexpectations4927 no he has a heater setup on a vertical board taken apart, and it runs like normal, but no flame. He even has a dual glow plug setup for burning waste oil.
@@kirkwalsh1932 OH... okay... I see.
I'm not sure why two glow plugs is necessary ro waste oil though. I never had issues with starting, only after starting.
Feeding a diesel heater waste oil is like feeding a dog chocolate.
LOL... that's great ! ... Your commnet... Not feeding a dog chocolate...
I would say the heater is a little more... resilient than the dog, haha.
How do you clean the dogs burn chamber?
@@bdblazer6400 I let the Vet deal with that.
I've tried so many ways to burn waste oil I've given up it just kills the heater
@@Offroadwithtom Haha... Yeah, I spent 3 months last winter trying a different experiment every day. Sometimes 3-4 different experiments in a single day.
Everything that I did eventually failed, but I learnt a lot along the way. The two main issues are that it needs a much higher temperature than diesel to flash off, and the second problem is that, even if you get it nice and hot, oil will always leave behind some ash.
I have achieved a "clean burn" (no carbon) and had only white stuff left behind but it builds up fairly quickly. This disturbs air flow and everything goes to crpa from there. With my current setup, I have a second chamber for the waste oil. This keeps the oil chamber hot all the time. The extra volume and design means that the crud has more space to build up, before causing problems.
I suspect it will be one more failure on my long list of failures, but it has showed some promise.
Cheers , thanks for sharing all your experiences through these videos , I think every gear head is pulling for you here. Getting clean heat off of waste oil for a reasonable cost that would be great for any home shop.
Thanks ! I have a feeling like this could be good, but also the very early stages of experimenting. Sometimes the more you know, the more you know you don't know, haha... Also, sometimes the more you know, the REAL challenges become obvious.
I just got an industrial aquarium pump, and may try injecting air into the end of the heater, just for giggles. Why not 🤷♂️
Been sort of watching your vids lately. Life is getting busy.
I was going to suggest that very idea after watching your last video.
Start on diesel switch to oil while turning the air on. Use a needle valve to adjust the air. I would suggest bringing the air tube up close to the round flanged piece. Also, wouldn't you just run the heater in it's normal position?
Let the diesel run by pump on startup, then drip the oil in same line, cutting off the pump, while adjusting pump air.
I'm relaxing with a coffee and some pot, so I hope this makes sense? Does to me. 😂
@@tjhouston4916 I get how life can be too hectic for anything 👍
Now that I have the waste oil tube entering the top of the heater, I need to run it on its side to get the oil to drip into the bottom of the tube. If I make another one, I may put the hole in the side, but it is honestly easier to run the heater on it's side and not have to mount it, haha.
@@tjhouston4916 HAHA ! Nice. I think I get what you are saying... and I was thinking this... pump the air and fuel into the same line.
The real reason I have this pump is to run my SNA burn head that I made last year... Basically a torpedo heater, but inside of a Chinese Diesel Heater. Keep all of the control system that I can, but bypass the pump and just run siphon with the SNA.
Waste oil. I've experimented with it as well from time to time. It can be very fickle. But I enjoy the videos you have done with the heater. I have 4 5kW heaters that I use. 3 for heating, and one for testing. 🙂 One thing I've found in burning WMO is that synthetic burns differently and is far more stinky and produces more CO. Although I've has have good success running WVO/diesel mixture.
As for the 2 ECU's for one heater, I'm intrigued. And I was just having a thought earlier today. How about 2 heaters off one ECU?
Yes... WMO is very fickle. That's a good way to put it.
There are a few major challenges. The first one is getting it hot enough and then dealing with the crud that builds up.
Using 2 ECU is sort of a ... band aid fix for a broken leg, haha... Especially as none of my ECUs have adjustable air fuel ratio... I kinda need that. It does provide me with a fail safe system, that I can leave unattended for a while.
Yea I was gonna say higher end stainless. Just beware of cracking espically from expansion.
Yeah... that could be it... I have tried 304 and 316 but it may be a super stainless.
Well I must have missed the 316 vid. Sorry. Ok I’m going to go back and watch the vids I missed.
@@shawnrinkel8377 There may be some confusion. The stainless testing was done about a year ago, when I was trying to trap heat in the main burn area... I was using different materials as restrictors. I managed to melt aluminum, copper, brass... stainless washers just disintegrated.
The intro that I use in some of my videos shows one of those stainless washers.
Ok I see for sure.
Its temp of burn chamber.. I think the only way to run these with waste oil is to run them at extreme danger heat levels where the alumimum casting is in danger of melting. I use waste oil in a foundry and once the furnace is up to temp it burns SO clean. Try using 421 stainless steel parts. that steel is designed for direct flame very very high temp
Thanks for the comment.
The burn chamber temp is hot enough to melt copper. I did it last year. However, the exchanger is able to get rid of heat fast enough, that it won't easily overheat. Even with the stainless exhaust glowing red hot, the exchanger will stay under 240C (at the heat sensor. closer to 340 at the end)
Cool... 421 stainless👍
@@loweredexpectations4927 I have t watched all the videos but have you tried forcing air into the burn chamber once it gets hot enough to handle the oil? That’s how the foundry burners burn oil. Mine is gravity feed as well
@@tmophoto I sort of did that last year with the single burn are, and it made a LOT of heat in the chamber and burnt clean... so I may give that a try with this setup !
@@loweredexpectations4927 it can get to 1200C very fast. That is way way higher than then aluminum will stay solid. 😁
Can you please try
- AVGAS 100LL
- E85
Love your vids.
I will see what I can do about testing these. I had some AVGAS but I burnt it all in my lawn mower, haha. E85 is hard to get where I am, but I found a gas station that apparently sees some about half an hour away.
Question. Why not inject to the same chamber? 2 fuel inlets in 1st chamber, and keep the 2nd chamber if it’s helping by its mass and glowing.
A few reasons. The oil will leave residue and this chamber is very difficult to clean out (almost impossible). The design of that chamber doesn't allow for much build up, before it causes the heater to fail, and lastly that chamber doesn't get nearly hot enough.
You need stainless! That or cast iron is about the only thing that will hold up to the heat.
Some grades of stainless may work, but I have tried 304 and 316, and it gets consumed pretty quickly. It can take a lot of heat, but it is also very reactive...
I was honestly very confused by this, but if you weld stainless, you need to back purge with CO2 shielding gas... or the metal on the back side of the weld will react with the oxygen. Titanium has the same problem.
I have wondered about cast iron... it seems to be used in old wood furnaces, so I assume it is resilient.
May need something with tungsten Carbide or hard chrome. Alternatively 4140, as it contains higher chromium and Molybdenum..
I was shocked, last year, when I put tungsten from a tig welder, into the chamber and it badly oxidized in a very short time. I did this specifically because I thought for sure it would hold up.
I think I may have some 4140 in my scrap bin... but solid chunks... I may try using a piece of it.
@@loweredexpectations4927 i work in hardchroming and coatings. Hardchrome is tough.. And Carbide is tough. I remember the video on tungsten... If it is Tungsten Carbide with a nickel content it has a bit more resistance and will not corrode or oxidize. Think of a shock absorber or hydraulic ram. We refinish those and they take alot to destroy. Almost impossible to machine however. We precision grind it. Love the videos, have a couple diesel heaters myself. Just got a Likaci with bluetooth as VEVOR was backordered Nd running it off a 12v 15 amp LED driver power supply. So far love the bluetooth. Keep up the videos. My expectations are high👍
@@thekiltedkamper2855 Okay... Interesting ! Enjoy your heater ! They are great 🤟
You might try Stainless steel maybe?
Some types of stainless may work. I have tried 304 and 316 and they had issues. There are more exocit types though.
The burn chamber might be stainless or titanium. I would assume stainless as it is much cheaper. Either option could potentially work for you in the future.
Yeah... probably some sort of stainless.
@@loweredexpectations4927 google says 304 stainless I just can’t verify the reference obviously lol
@@Weldoholic Interesting. I tried 304 (supposedly) and it fell apart pretty quickly. One of my old intros has a washer on a bolt... that washer was 304.
@@loweredexpectations4927 yeah they might splurge on the burn chamber though. What we know as ‘304’ is commonly very low quality. I would bet they were magnetic and the burn chamber is not if it is stainless. High quality stainless is not magnetic at all. Low quality stainless is!
@@loweredexpectations4927 I’m sure you know all that already, but I don’t recall seeing you check whether the burn chamber is magnetic in any of your videos….
Everyone trying to burn wmo in these, r missing 1 big issue .... The body of these heaters simply arent big enough to to properly burn wmo , a single drop of wmo can flash up to a 1 ' x 1' ball of flame the only way this is going to work is if u use the heater as a burn head, and open it up into a secondary burn cjamber , something like what dave L did when he cut off the end of the exchanger but then attach a small tank to the end w some pipes running through it, basically making a bigger heat exchanger, and at the same time a bigger area for secondary burn .... Its pretty elementary the body isnt big enough to accommodate the secondary burn that is needed
If the fuel has more energy, then all one needs to do is burn less of it. If this was the largest hurdle to overcome, it would have been done a long time ago.
I'm not sure of you have done any testing with WMO and these heaters yourself, but there at at least two larger issues than what you seem to be concerned about and I have spent countless house messing with this.
I'm all for suggestions and being told that I'm wrong, when I'm wrong (and that happens a lot) but I find it hard to mask my annoyance, when someone claims something so confidently, or as fact... Especially, when I have addressed the disputed topic at least a few times.
The limiting factor on these heaters is the inlet and outlet size... they can run at around 6-7 kw. The size of the exchanger would only matter if the exhaust and inlet were matched appropriately. What Dave McLuckie did was a neat experiment, and you can burn fuel like that, but it's extremely inefficient, not a clean burn and not at ideal or actually using the heat.
I have been successfully running the latest version of my self cleaning heater for almost two weeks now, and it works... with the original exchanger. Low CO, no smoke, little smell and no open flame.
Are you pre-heating the waste oil? That would change the viscosity.
I am sort of preheating it... Not preheating in the tank, but preheating it by running in through the metal injector. It would be at least 200C if not closer to 300C when it enters the burn chamber.
Heating it in the tank would change the viscosity for sure... I may try this, but I think using a better / more controllable injection system is the answer.
👍
Thanks.
Inconel, Monel, or another similar "super" stainless steel. I'm guessing Monel because Inconel is an even bigger pain in the ass to machine.
I did think of inconel, but I thought that was super expensive... Not sure of the others but I assume they are as well, haha.
I have noticed that my new aliexpress chambers are NOT the same materials as what came in my original Vevor heater, and what came in my new 2kw Vevor heater is not the same quality as my old 5kw.
Curious, Is there Any reason you have Not just built an adjustable Pulse Circuit using like a 555 timer with either a Mosfet or Transistor's as a power driver to pulse the Pumps? I was going to mess with Making the the Chamber fan Separate from the heat exchange using two different fans & a PWM speed controller for the fan's which removes the need for having any ECU's at all.
THANKS ! ... The main reason is because I have no idea what to search for and don't want to invest time and money into an electronics nightmare...
What do I need to make a variable pulse generator that will power one of these pumps... that would be awesome.
I have a little PWM board that I think will work for my fan... but haven't tried it yet.
@@loweredexpectations4927 I did some looking around for a Simpler Solution then to actually build circuits.. Can Not list the link on here apparently, But the Amazon description is " EC Buying Function Signal Generator, ZK-PP2K PWM Pulse Frequency Generator, 1Hz-150KHz PWM Motor Speed Regulation/LCD Pulse Frequency Cycle Module Adjustable Driver Module/PWM Signal Generator " . This particular one Also has a built in Mosfet output driver which can handle around 10 amps Before a heatsink would have to be added. I ordered Two of them to mess around with, It's a pretty Neat little package.
@@Jack_Move Cool... I was able to find it... Says they dont' ship to Canada, but maybe I can find one here. Thanks.
@@loweredexpectations4927 If you get one of the Low power ones which they Do Sell in Canada, You can use Mosfet Modules like this one which is Also sold in Canada pretty cheap. I have actually used these in the past. " WayinTop 4pcs Mosfet Driver Module Dual High-Power 0-20KHz FET PWM Trigger Switch Driver Module " . The PWM input of this would come from the Output of the Frequency driver unit. You should be in business then, That would pulse those fuel pumps with no issue. Also would be strong enough to run high end 12 volt DC fan's . If pulling more then 5 amps or so, I would put a small heatsink on the Mosfets just to keep them happy.
If you manage to get this to work someone in China will have them on sale 5 minutes later
That would be great... then I can buy one for $100 instead of having to make one, haha.
ADE type dumper filter injection.. Maybe this gives you an idea.👍👍🕶🔥🍻
The problem is with most things like that is that they tend to clog up quickly, and when they clog, the performance drops drastically.
I have not tried this setup, so I can't say for sure.
I googled "dumper filter injection" and "ade dumper filter injection" and got nothing useful. Do you have a link or a search term that'll show what you're talking about?
@@DonziGT230 yes, let me find the video for it, it seems as though it could be implemented.
Area Diesel Service is the channel and it was a video about 2 weeks ago, there is a tractor on the thumbnail, I hope Joel can implement this somehow, hope this helps.👍👍🔥🔥🔥
@@d.j.robinson9424 Oh, I see. This may be possible, but much more difficult than most people would assume. There are better ways to do essentially the same thing, though.
The two main issues with this system, or any fuel injector system, is that they depend on fairly high pressures, so you need a high pressure pump. The guy in this video says the system operates at 1450 psi. The sesong issue is modulating fuel volume in such a small quality. A diesel heater pump delivers 22lm of fuel in 1000 pulses. That's .022ml per pulse. At max heat output, these heaters deliver about a tablespoon of fuel in a minute. That means to reduce the heat setting to 50% (the medium setting) you need to accurately reduce fuel flow by half a tablespoon per minute.
These heaters use dosing pumps, because they are necessary to accurately control fuel flow... and they do not produce enough pressure to create a spray.
What exactly is your ultimate goal?
To be able to run my heater for a week or two before having to take it apart and clean it, to have the build up in a place that is easy to clean and doesn't destroy the burn chamber.
After this, I may try to make a system that is self cleaning, but I want something that can first run reliably for a week or so. In previous testing, with my nasty oil, I have gotten a maximum of about 13 hours, more realistically 8 before it started making a LOT of smoke.
maybe it's a titanium-containing mixture Material ?🤔
I have no idea. A few others have suggested inconel or a super stainless.
@@loweredexpectations4927 INCONEL is a nickel mixture which is melted under vacuum! If it were this material, it would have to have a shiny surface. But the material is matt, so I wouldn't say its Inconel. Inconel is also very expensive and even more difficult to process or machine.I doubt this combustion chamber would be available for under $100!
@@roastntoast7550 Yeah... The fact that the whole heater was $200 indicates that they are not using anything real crazy...
The end part of the chamber is cast... so it has a sand cast finish. A fine cast finish, but it wouldn't be shiny because of that.
In my original heater, the chamber tune and head appeared to be something special... but on the new cheaper ones, the head appears to be something cast, and the tubes are just ... some sort of exhaust tubing... maybe a little better than mild steel. It was hard to drill and almost destroyed my bit.
Why does your blue controller shut down at 238C? I'm running my blue controller at 245C and it's not shutting down.
Your controller has red digits... Mine is totally different.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Well that just sucks.😮
@@loweredexpectations4927 mine has the wrench top left corner.
@@kirkwalsh1932 Haha... yes, it does. I upgraded my controller at one point, but the ECU I got lasted two weeks and stopped working.
@@loweredexpectations4927 this ECU I have was 21 bucks.
Hydronic waste oil video please...
Do you know where I can get some ? I looked into making some yesterday, and last year, and there are some emulsifiers that they don't really want to tell you about.
I'm pretty sure it won't work well in a heater, as the idea of it is to burn cooler and expand more. Not things that are well matched to a heate.
@@loweredexpectations4927 but I meant to say is I would like to see you make a video on hydronic heaters running on waste oil with the same upgrade you’re doing now for the air heaters… my house currently has baseboard oil fired burner and 90% of my heating requirements could be achieved with an 8kv hydronic heater…..
Distillates burn very clean, and everything else has a tremendous amount of residue, which is fine if the system is designed for it ….
Keep up the good work the controller has the ability to run multiple pumps at the same time and frequency if that is helpful to you …
@@growgeek OH.... sorry... I have had a few people messaging me about burning Hydrodiesel (diesel with water in it basically) ... sorry.. I got confused.
Yes, that would be very cool !
It is easy to install a diesel water trap before the filter...@@loweredexpectations4927
Hello!
The hole as seen here, 20:58 ua-cam.com/video/azQw5Jbcd-4/v-deo.html what diameter is the threaded hole? Thanks!
They are about 1/16 of an inch, if I remember correctly.
Stainless
It may be some sort of stainless, but I have tried 304 and 316 and it is way too reactive. It falls apart pretty quickly. I even tried putting tungsten from a TIG welder in there, and it oxidized that.
@@loweredexpectations4927 if it’s magnetic, it is not stainless
@@RADMAN752 Some stainless is magnetic... usually much less so than mild steel, though.
Titanium ...
Titanium can withstand a lot of heat, but it is also very reactive when it gets hot.
My approach would be ,a second fuel entrance to a preheating coil wrapped around the burnchamber,and after start up the second circuit over the preheated coil feeds the burner with oil fume.
Could be in line with your approach using two controllers
Appreciate your efforts keep up the good work.@@loweredexpectations4927
"Promo SM"
I searched for "promo sm" and just found a annoying came play video that make no sense to me.... I have no idea what you are talking about.
Inconel
I did think this, maybe... but isn't that really expensive ?!
@@loweredexpectations4927 there are scrap yards that have Inconel. I recall one in East Central PA.
@@loweredexpectations4927 Coplay, PA. Google Inconel scrap. My local scrap yard… I know the operator, he lets me look into bins. I know not to touch without proper PPE. I can usually find what I’m looking for, sometimes it’s free, especially if I’m dropping off 10 lbs of scrap metal.
@@mikemccabe1324 Interstng.
First!
Nice ... Here's a sticker ⭐️ !!
@@loweredexpectations4927 lol, a gold star! That's crazy how it just consumes all the different metals you put in it. That hose clamp you used to hold together that burn chamber seemed to hold up pretty good, was it just a regular stainless hose clamp?
Those are special Vevor clamps he uses. 🤣🤣🤣
@@WaffleStaffel Yes... the hose clamp is way out at the exhaust outlet... By that time the heat is much lower and the oxygen is mostly used up ( I assume ). The same stainless that I used close to the baffle, totally falls apart.
@@kirkwalsh1932 LOL... that was a better response than the truth, haha.