Riot just needs to nerf the tank role's dmg. I think removing the dmg of heartsteel, nerfing the dmg of sunfire and thornmail, nerfing the ad scaling of mundo, ap scaling of tahm kench, just gutting tank dmg. this is how to save the adc role. back in the days the main reason for an adc was to take down the tanks. nowadays tanks can just 1-3 shot an adc for no reason at all. if you dont play pixel perfect as adc a tahm kench or shen, or cho or any other tank can just walk into you auto you twice for half your hp and go away, now you either die or you're out of the fight, if we want to bring the role to its traditional times we need to bring out the traditional purpose. assasins can still oneshot you, mages can still oneshot you, those are the true jobs of both of these roles, but having a tank that is practically unkillable unccable unstopable all that can just 2 shot you is absurd, if i play anything other than kaisa or a mobile champ mundo will just walk straight towards me, being immune to cc because of his passive, and movement speed thanks to his ult, and i just die insta no counterplay. That is the single way to bring back the role to what it was. an actually PLAYABLE role.
ADC's need unique items, that only they can buy. Because other champs buying and abusing their items, like BoRK , lead to nerfs that unfairly affect them. Also, all other roles need damage nerfs.
before patch 6.12 zigggs was the only viable botlaner because mages were missing turret damage. that patch they increased the ap scaling from .3 to .5 on autos vs turrets. the adc in early league had the identity of taking down turrets quickly. nowadays there is no necessity for it, as there is way less splitpush and macroplay overall and whoever wins the teamfight gets to take objectives. u dont need to think about having good nash DPS in your team or sth. back then u needed a cassiopeia or an adc or else u couldnt even 5 man a nash, whilst nowadays u can often do it with 2. turrets should get 0 resistances and more HP or just dmg reduction, so that the armor and magic pen from mages and assassins doesnt work against turrets anymore. (granted if adcs were doing maths they would have % armor pen instead of collector every game) reduce the ap scaling on autos vs turrets, remove the attackspeed shard in the runes and make sure that mages that are played in botlane scale well with level. mages often dont need to level their 3rd spell (ziggs e.g. kinda only needs to max Q) so for the ADCs that get more attackspeed and AD for each level, they want the sololane EXP whilst mages dont need it. thats literally what the swain rework is for thats coming in 14.21 btw. by design, adcs dont want to be in a duolane. they cant use their great earlygame as much there and they take longer to get to the lategame. u'd rather want a champ that only needs lv 13, whilst still getting full gold and even if u want a supp for the adc like an enchanter, u can put taht bot and then have the adc with solo EXP in lategame.
Honestly, I don't think there is a "fix" for this. The game has changed, for better or worse, with how much movement there is. I think it's time all us players adjust with the game as well. If that means playing new champs, cool. If that means taking the ADC champs you like to other lanes, also cool. It would require the gutting or overbuffing of many a kit to get back to the old status quo. I don't think it's a problem to evolve with the game, especially when the "solution" would probably require either complete overhauls to movement options overall or the massive buffing/nerfing of champ kits that will just make everyone unhappy.
@@Fgtr4Life couldnt agree more. the "pick a marksman bot 100% of games" thing established well over 10 years ago and wasnt even correct back then. now its even further from that and anyone unwilling to adapt is just our LP for the taking.
For real. I was so excited to hear their plan for him, but when pros never played him bot and played him mid even *more*, weirdly enough they just left him there and no more plan for bot lane suddenly
In competitive, you can use voice comms to plan your fight and get peel for the adc. In solo q, you're reliant on your teammates to understand that you need peel, and many players simply don't care about you as the adc.
True because I can lock in Lee Sin and be the ultimate peel for my ADC but I lose a lot of the late game carry potential if everyone gets to 6 items and I have to rely on my ADC to position well, play safer, farm well, and listen to calls. But since I’m low elo (bronze) they rarely do that so it’s safer to lock in a carry champ and carry the game myself rather than rely on someone else. It’s a shame because I enjoy playing Lee Sin. I like diving in and out and peeling for my team but I can only do that if I can communicate with my team (voice coms) or if they know that I need someone to W to to get out of trouble.
I'd rather play selfish and fight ini the enemies' face or try to flank. whats in it for me? why should I risk my time and effort for someone who I dont know?
@@yrga7195 It's a matter of context. If you play selfishly when you have an adc who has proven to be able to carry well, then that's it, you're just a selfish player. Don't risk it if the adc isn't good though lol
@@IIMiikexDII only context is this: its solo q. im playing a game to have fun and enjoy (its league, people forget why we are PLAYING). doesnt matter if adc is 100/0 or it will win the game, why should I put myself on the line and do something much more than protecting a stranger on the internet and help them have fun. I would rather do my own thing first. my plan. if I was a taric, thresh, braum then sure i would enjoy that because the purpose and satisfying acts of these champs. if I am orn, ksante, aatrox, garen. in fact aatrox, garen are bruisers who build assassin and crit items with little defense. yes I can take hits for you but its not really pleasing or fun for me to do that. theres no gratifying reward. LP? not enticing enough. I'd rather go in front of the enemy swinging. I did not farm for 25 mins just to be someone's shield thats not my fun. I doubt thats many people's definition of fun coz it sute as hell aint mine. I will help this stranger have his fun shooting people with the cost of my own pleasure? I should wait for the K6 to attack before Ieave this jhin who is ulting while the team is doing another nearby and im not supposed to join? No thank you
Adc being unplayable is what happens when you power creep every champion coming out. Eventually every role has every tool to just kill them. I’m legit just walking down ADCs as a tank support at this point with 0 issue
Worst is adc players have been saying it's an issue for more than a year now, ever since mages have been consistently the highest wr on the role every patch. You know it's a problem when Azzap said he was gonna do an adc cl8mb to shut adc players up, and it was just a Velkoz apc climb in reality, PROVING THE PROBLEM. Balance team is also biased, an adc is broken???? No way, insta nerf. Ksante is a walking bag of broken? We can wait a few patches to take5 base armor f4om him, this will surely fix him. Also buff lethalityitems while we're at it, a billion more ability haste, and make sure they can kill the adc 4tijes in a row, in case they bought GA and have a Zilian in their team.
@@mikkelsalling1422 for 2 months , and in mid lane not bot lane lmao , meanwhile mages bot lane were broken for more than 3 years and nothing was done , briusers until this split were broken for god knows how long , support and jungle has been broken for years and riot do that on purpose because "no one will play them if they are not OP" , please you dont talk
@@mikkelsalling1422 The whole idea was that you were a glass canon, the team fucks peel up once and you get oneshot by an assassin diving the backline. but back in the day it took skill, now every single champ can do it.
@@khaagos You didn't need those to melt actual tanks, you needed those to maybe possible survive a random champ that can just dive you, one shot you, dive another, one shot him too, and then just get away freely because he's also immune to any cc, oh and he also lost 0 health even tho you spent all your spells as soon as you saw him
@@SinaebYou needed all 3 since heartsteel and K'Sante (and also Jaksho initially) became a thing. ADCs needed the armor pen and %HP damage to have any chance when they gave tanks super scaling HP + burst damage, stacking armor and MR, and with K'Sante they gave a super tanky champ mobility, CC Immune, and so on as well. That one update started the downhill trend for bot lane ADC imho.
We definitely need a buff to armor and magic pen items. They are almost useless compared to tank items currently. We used to be able to actually put itemize any opponent by knowing how the game worked but now that you can't do that you are screwed at champ select.
As a former ADC main/league addict, I slowly stopped queuing up as much about two seasons ago. I didn't know how to put it into words but it really felt like all the champs I used to love playing just seemed incompatible with the game. Tbf, I was a gold/silver player who really grinded normal draft because doing ranked while in school made me not a happy person so not by any means the best player in the world, but it seemed like no matter what I tried to do, I just couldn't get that adc feel like I used to when I started playing the game years ago
Solo queuing as an ADC in league is incredibly hard to climb. Your matchups are so inconsistent, half of your supports are autofilled and don't understand how to lane properly with their picks, and your team the majority of the time doesn't understand how to play around you.
Even when you duo with a support main it's still hard to climb since even when you win lane, you generally can't make up for a bad jungler or top lane. It's rough lol, made me quit ranked in like s6
thats why as an adc i dont even try to team fight anymore. i run ap kaisa and poke from a mile away till the fights decided and i can rush in to kill steal effectively or just play something like trist and split push all game winning by capitalizing on a bad baron attempt to rush down lanes and take inhibs because im sorry but if you have baron but two super minion lanes pushing to you not much real pushing is happening.
My main problem with adc its ironically not the adc but the support...... I only find mages sudo figthers and some timed hard engages in sup line.... Its hard to find pill there soo why use a dps champwhen you you are gone be burned by poke, short traders or directly die where you dint have the moments to shine in long trades because there its none Playing any sup enchanter or sustainer sucks there.... My problem its the exces of easy early and cheap damage sup items Before you dont have these, senna and pike have ways to scale or get gold for expensive items But now becauss the damage items you have anny one in early with a good option for his damage What i mean its that, there its not penalty for going something higth damage vecause there its not that difference between veen hable to get gold for at least somr damage item or not going for that one in first place The only examples i remember been go where brand and zyra but the first one have good base and hps burning And the other have good vase scaling
THIS! I've been an adc for the last 3-4 years. I main Ezreal which is already a bit of a pain if the support doesn't understand how he is supposed to be played but getting through gold this year is a dice throw. One match 18-1, all objectives, next match 0-10 no objectives, can't even farm 😂
@@JayKayProductions or you are a bit of a pain because ezreal is not ideal in every game. if you chose to only play him then thats on you just as much as on others. On other hand if you are gold and you say your support doesnt undestand how ezreal is supposed to be played... but do you know how is he supposed to be played?
So true. Tanks used to be actual tanks dealing almost zero damage but being tanky as hell. Now they are relatively tanky and do insane burst damage to squishies (ADC).
The balance team has spent the past 4 years making ADC viable for a few weeks at a time and then overcorrecting back away because pro play will start to play around, get this, protecting the DPS. The problem is, that the ADC in solo lane meta wasn't even because ADC was overtuned. It was because Corki was overtuned and and you could get all of the AP you needed from a comp out of the jungler. On top of it. It was really only ever a problem in Pro play, and the nimrod community was like "OMG, OMG, ADC's ARE EVERYWHERE RITO PLS NERF, I SAW ZEUS PLAY ZERI TOP." while having the cognitive dissonance necessary to ignore that these picks had sub 1% pick rates and like 45% win rates in soloqueue (and clowning ADC mains every time they complained about mages in the bottom lane having like 52-55% win rates due to them only having like a 1.5% pick rate).
@@sytherwusky same thing will happen To much healing and now an inmortal yasuo and or other ones are in my front lane destroying my team qnd a ican kill it myself Also imagine that with yummy To much cc and tanking, now u have an inmortal leona cc me to the edn meanwhile syndra or other mage just delete me Shield and we have the jana lulu problem Riot break the trehshold where the adc can do ling fight because he can't longer create long figths. You got cc and you are done stay and day or back and lose gold
The problem will always always be if the adc is feed they still can be one shot but the adc won't one shot the feed fighter champ.(They might tickle them before getting one shot)
So should all the standart adc's have higher base armor and magic resist? Now we have less damage in game and giving all of them an upgrade in armor, MR and perhaps also hp could help them out at least early game, so that they can easier get high in the late game and perhaps dont get one+shot by at least not everythink. Or increase the range of all of them.
@@tntjrock3197 I don't think it's something as simple as that. In general adcs should be made to consistently win 1v1s against bruisers, tanks and supports/jungle, but should consistently lose to mages/assassins for it, it goes without saying that in that scenario mages/assassins need to constantly lose to bruisers, tanks and supports/jungle. This should prevent adcs from thriving in solo lanes and should create a dynamic where one class isn't head and shoulders above the rest. In order for adcs to constantly win vs sup/jgl it would be completely sufficient to simply make sup items make their carriers not count against other teammates in the lane's XP gain (effectively making only support take less XP in a duo lanes). That and jungle would need to actually be constrained more closely to the power levels of supports, both gold and XP wise. The utility of Smite should also potentially be granted to roles other than jungle in order to decrease what is still very much a funnel role's overall game spanning agency. And yes it is a funnel role, because if jungle didn't exist either mid or top would have to share XP with junglers and as it stands the bastards not only have a monopoly on neutral objectives and access to a purely PvE source of income, but they are capable of 1v2ing, 1v3ing and generally carrying a lot harder then any adc would be allowed to in today's League (without serious community backlash). And before you misconstrued what I'm talking about here, I don't count Zeri, Jhin, Corki, Ezreal, Kai'sa or any other champion that doesn't rely predominantly on their auto=attacks to contribute to their team's success (looking at you MF) as an actual ADC. These champions need a SERIOUS revision to be brought DOWN to the level of actual marksman for all the non-auto-attack-based utility their kits provide, before any serious talk about fixing the role as a whole can take place. ...Or you could make auto-attacks be like spells, not interruptible by CC, with a static animation, and make attack speed only influence the time between attacks. Since apparently any price power than 2500 is too low for an item that makes your auto attacks actually competitive. In any case, limiting items based on weather a champion is ranged/melee was relevant before more than 70% of the game started having a form of instant gap closer. Here's a new way to balance items: Reduce item effect power instead for each dash/blink that a champ has in their kit. Heck make flash count for these restriction and actually give other roles an incentive to go another summoner. Lastly Heal and Shield need to be removed from the game, or other lanes actually need to be balanced around their existence. At the moment the only role that takes these is ADC and this is also reflected in how both ADCs and other roles have been balanced for over a decade. Somehow this is acceptable for ADC and no other role in league.
People laugh at ADC mains for complaining all the time. Bro, we wouldn't be complaining if the role was actually playable. Half of the time, our supp is autofilled and will lose us the lane. If you get ahead, you have a HUGE bounty on you (figuratively) and every member of the enemy team is going to go after you in fights, but of course in soloq, your team doesn't know to peel and would rather just play for themselves rather than for the team. The fact that there's mobility and damage creep doesn't help. You can be well positioned but one assassin coming from behind can 100-0 you, and you don't have the burst or the cc or the survivability of pressing zhonyas to survive (looking at APCs here...). Used to be ADC main, was done with the BS and switched to supp. 100% easier to climb with and the experience of playing ADC helps. I like playing supp but my hands are always itching to play ADC.
I think the main identity of ADC in general is range. ADC used to be called an ADR for a reason. Because it used to be a role where you can deal damage to another champion without them hitting back to you. I played a lot of DOTA 1 back before I started playing league and Traxex was my go hero back then. So when I started playing league I fell in love with the role of being an ADR on where I can have range advantage with my opponent. Yeah I will die from them if they can get on top of me but that's on me because I didn't position well. That was a lot of fun back then but now with all of the mobility and champions and items that have an easy access to get on top of me is the most frustrating part. Like yeah I get that you need to reach me for you to counter my range advantage but you should just have one or even two ways of doing that. Not a gazillion skills and items that will help you out. And for some other roles that complain about adc ruining their lane just because they have range advantage that's the reason why positioning are important. You and me should be rewarded for having better position but your dashes shouldn't be so overwhelming to the point that flashing it won't even going to be enough.
I'm sorry but "ADR" is only used in the Philippines. The CORRECT terminology is either "marksman", "adc" or "bot" (non-derogatory) also DotA1's "adcs" are only called CARRIES (Sniper is another example) ADR is not a widely used terminology outside of the Philippines.
The issue isn't adcs, it is tanks. The game did not used to have so much percent health damage. If your tanks die the ADC has no peel and will soon follow. They are heavily interrelated roles because they are each sacrificing stats to create a stronger synergy. Generally people don't play tanks in solo queue because they lack the carry potential of other classes plus their value is diminished with the abundance of present health damage.
I've been playing league for 10+years and I've never felt so bad playing ADC then past 2 years, since Phreak became balance team lead, this guy was literary showing off his Grandmaster Rank abuse with Mao'Kai and Janna spam until he reached it and started nerf them after that (maokai got nerfed 6 times after he locked the rank he wanted). 90% of ADC roster is literary unplayable (also smallest roster in the game) so it comes to 2-3 marksman actually playable every patch or just replaced by mages, it's so sad to see so many lay offs in Riot Games and Phreak still there, this guy has to be gone.
its been 6 years btw that mages make up the top 10 of botlaners. literally when someone asks me for botlane coaching i tell them to play mages and come back when they are 500 LP higher. usually takes them less than 2 months, they hate me when thats all advice they get. but all of them come back to me and are grateful and laugh about how ppl are still playing adcs that arent kog maw. was the exact same in 2018.
yeah but they have low pick rates, most botlaners play standard adc's. 52% w/r with a 0.1% presence is probably fine. Most players want to win, if it was really that strong we would see higher pick rates.
@@drjamaymay405 ppl just keep playing it. most of the mage players either are midlane mains who swapped to bot or adc players who now play a different class. also, there is far more than enough sample size. if WRs were fluctuating and it was a new phenomenon, sure, but u can literally go to lolalytics, where they track back 10 patches and every single patch its the same. every single patch seraphine and wain have 15k - 40k games and every single patch they are 55% WR while the best non kogmaw adcs are at 51. this is far from an anomaly or low sample size. stuff liek that doesnt happen for 100 patches in a row, if it was bad, u would see mages with similar pickrates at the low end of the table. but you dont.
All we've been seeing for like 20 patches in row are nerfs bc riot made adc solo laners strong and massively nerfed gold scaling. Player perception is incredibly important to a game like league imo, and NOBODY would feel good after seeing their items get nerfed EVERY SINGLE PATCH, it also just gives the placebo effect that adc is even weaker than it is because of it. The collector, yuntal and essence reaver changes massively suck imo by nerfing scaling even harder just to give us a cheaper first item :/ I don't play adc to have early game agency, I do it to collect items throughout a game knowing that I will be a monster late game if I play well.
I somewhat agree. But what I don't understand is how you describe on-hit builds as not being a "normal" ADC-Build...? On hit has been a normal ADC buildpath for many years. Kog'maw for example has pretty much always built on-hit since his W is better with on-hit items and he likes attackspeed. Do you mean to say that crit items just aren't as strong ? that is very possible. And also with LDR being useless now bcs it just has 5% more armorpen than mortal reminder, but has no passive, I'm assuming on-hit is just generally better for every champ that can use on-hit. And ADCs with crit prob most of the time have problems with keeping up except a few exceptions like jhin, jinx and so on....
Wait till you realize onhit adcs can only go 3 onhit items at best now due to AS cap, and Kogmaw's full build is half AP with Shadowflame Voidstaff/DC. Kaisa is also like that. Not sure abt Varus but I think he either half tank or half AP if playing onhit. So, the "tradition" since this season are mostly AP dmg not even mixed anymore, there're much less autos windows. The "adcs" who go onhit are 2/3 AP dmg now, may as well calling them AP Auto Carries like Kayle
traditional adc have long been outclassed in the game. there's too much damage on champs with too much hp and those champs also have high mobility, slows, stuns, etc. power creep has left characters like ashe behind champs like ashe need to be low hp to make the trade-off of all that damage reasonable. but that should apply to everyone else, too. tanks should not be murdering adc's 1on1 in late game, bruisers should not be living as long while playing the front line, assassins need to be out of gas on their first rotation and basically be doomed if they whiff everything and are standing in the middle of the enemy team. every other role has gotten more, adcs have stayed more or less the same when theyre not pseudo bruisers like nilah or whatever great place to start? give traditional adcs more mobility. give ashe a dash on a low cooldown, give jinx a tumble, etc. at least with some skill-dependant mobility options they stand some kind of a chance if their flash is down
tanks doing as much damage as bruisers/fighters/any damage oriented champion with their stupid "max health%" damage is the dumbest thing ever, alongside the tanks that have movement like assasin junglers i love when mundo can build 0 attack damage items but do INSANE damage because of heartsteel and his q doing 30% MAX HEALTH DAMAGE????? ON 4 SECOND COOLDOWN??!!!!! it feels like every single tank that isnt support has insane 1v1 priority while building fully tank, they have both the strength of being hard to kill and not having the weakness of being slow or doing little damage **200 years of development experience**
The downside of giving them dash is that they would just move to mid like what happen in the pros for the past few months, and people hated that. I thinks it's about time Riot let people play champions on other roles.
Your only making the problem worse the long and short of it is we need to take some of the mobility out of the game and hard nerf both tanks and mages. Mages one shot from way beyond adc range even if they only hit one ability or sometimes it's even point and click and tanks can run you down with hyper mobility and you can't even do enough damage to kill them. If you wanna make it fair without changing anything it's simple we have to actually have cooldowns again Leona shouldnt have a 1.5 second stun on a 3 second cooldown I'm not saying g to go back to season 1 where it had a 15 second cooldown but it needs to be like 5 or 6 and dashes need to either be slower/ more telegraphed or get the same treatment a dash is a commitment you don't get it back in 3 seconds
Why is is "not okay" for ADCs to be busted/op/strong? They should just lower damage in the game and increase lifesteal for ADCs to stay alive in long fights
I think more sources of life steal would be nice, but at lower amounts, like 2-5%, reduce bloodthirsters life steal if ADC has more access to lifesteal, and honestly I want move speed meta back, maybe adding a little more movespeed back. Either that or just make ADC THE tank busting class like it's supposed to be
The last 2 ADCs that crushed the meta were Zeri and Aphelios, being strong to such degrees picking them was make or break for a game if in good hands If you increase life steal for ADCs, you don’t solve the problem you make it worst Cause it’s not ADCs don’t build their normal Life steal Items like Bloodthirster and Bork Yasuo, Yone, Irelia, Tryndamere, Garen, Katarina and others also benefit from Yasuo and Yone hyper scale off crit and attack speed (two stats ADCs heavily rely on) Irelia can build Bork Tryndamere is better when he has more crit Garen’s E can Crit Katarina sometimes built AD instead of AP cause her damage was that stupid So just Buffing lifesteal for ADCs only makes the problem worst cause it makes all the champions that Can use the items if not better and more likely capable of surviving
1. Is your support human? No? Lost 2. Is your support autofilled? Yes? Lost 3. Are you jungle-mid human? No? Lost 4. Is your toplane inting? Yes? Lost 5. Does the game even get to 3+ items? No? Lost 6. Does the enemy team target you? Does your team peel for you? No? Lost 7. Is your champ even playable into the enemy team? No? Lost
ashe is played for her utility, her best supports are usually supports who can carry on their own. seraphine/tahm kench both do an insane amount of damage in lane that she doesnt have to carry. kogmaw can stat check and out range most adcs, cait/ez/ashe/varus being some of the only champs who can farm against him rn. kaisa si the best adc bc she can go build burst, and she has self peel in her e and r.
The full AP kog build that was meta for a minute was literally unplayable, not only did he shit damage when he had w up. E,Q,R would chunk you for 1/4+ and he'd be literally almost off your screen.
Ashe is played because she isn't supposed to do damage, so can just be a utility bot for the team instead of actually carrying, and kogmaw is the only one who can properly deal with the tanks that have been broken for 1345345 years now
tbh, the crit item are just getting nerfed all the time, want crit ? no lifesteal to stay alive. want attack speed ? forget about dmg. want dmg? have fun with 1.01 attack speed. that plus the sheer burst and dashes... unplayable. when adc need barrier just to not be deleted from nowhere in 0.2sec, you know you better forget it. that udyr or voli cant 1v2 you, and your support... and hes gonna gain more life than you cant do damage, plus you cant even move out really. stay in the back (like out of screen) until they forget you exist and pick up scraps after teamfight. there i vented out.
The problem with ADC isn’t the champions, it’s the fact that you have to rely on your support. In fact, that pissed me off so much (having to rely on dice roll support) that I picked up Support until I hit GM just to see how easy it was if you use your brain and have hands.
As an ADC, and even moreso Hypercarry main, riot has fucked me every step of the way for years. DMG creep and mobility creep destroyed everything i was good at. I remember killing a malphite by flashing hsi ult and kiting him. For me, i cant play the way I love anymore cause its so weak that I cant do shit. They reduced per item crit from 30 to 20% and changed the runes in that time, so you went from 2 to 0 utility items without crit. They since gave us 1 back. Meanwhile everything oneshots me and unless i have a dash myself i am fucked. The durability patch a while back stuffed the hole for maybe 2 patch cycles. People say ADCs are op, the fact that positioning, kiting and good farming lead to that one purpose for this kind of champ gets forgotten. Meanwhile theres a whole class of champions thats specifically made to kill you (assassins) For years i preached that hypercarries get shit on by riot, and now is finally the point people start listening. My kiting, excellent farming and positioning in teamfights are tools that barely get me anywhere, all my skills i developed since season 4 are next to useless. I ow play mages and my main Jinx rots in the corner since its no fun playing her the way i used to anymore. Ways to fix it: reduce mobility for champs (will need a lot of reworks, also makes it easier to see whats happening, so good for new players), reduce dmg overall. Dont give defensive stats, just cut all dmg in half. Give ADC Items 30% crit and once you have 3 you get 10% bonus, or make that one a rune, something like "10% bonus crit after minute 20" or smth. Also reduce true dmg output overall. I often see myself take 30% true dmg.
mages are there, u can play them. a lot of the adcs are good in solonaes, play them there. when tanks are shit, toplaners and junglers dont play them. when mages were shit this year, midlaners just played adcs. when everyone built ardent, supps and midlaners played enchanters. when bruisers were bad after goredrinker nerfs, toplaners and jglers also played other classes. this fixation of players on only playing adcs in bot isnt happening anywere else. mages have been the top botlane WR champs for 6 years straight and yet 92% of the playerbase still play adcs that outside of kogmaw dont even get beyond 51% and all that whilst botlane mages are either midlaners who roleswapped or adc mains who play another class. imagine all these players were botlane & mage mains for the majority of their time.
I think in the age of one million dashes, there’s no more reason to go ADC over something like a bruiser or assassin. No need to kite when other champs can simply make catch plays for you anyway, and at least then you stand a fighting chance when you inevitably get jumped on by mid or jungle. This may be a bad idea, but ADCs might need improved self peel tools or better mobility if whole teams arent enough to protect them, especially in Soloq.
Playing adc is dependent on the team so much that if your team is behind, you will lose. If ahead, you have no impact, and if even, you become public enemy #1.
"high intensity burst" "on-hit kog'maw" ai type of sounding script. Besides, nobody considers kog'maws passive as something that "unloads" tons of damage after his death. It's the ap kog build that has been doing numbers recently
Not joking kogmaw is basically a burst champ. You slow them down with E then Q for shred W hit 3~4 times(witch is less than half a second) and the person dies. In case they are a tank instead of a squish you have slow from bork to finish them off. I legit killed a fed talon today before he reached me with his Q because he used from max range he literally died on the way from full HP(and took 70% of my HP with just ult +Q).
For starters, they could craft adcs in such a way that they are the ticking time bombs they are supposed to be. In DOTA, if the pos 1 gets to late game, it doesn't matter if they died a few times without getting fed. Any carry on 4-5 items MELTS. And they don't die instantly either. They should make it so the support has a higher incentive to stay near the ADC and snowball them instead of acting as the second jungler. A way to generate more gold while in the bot lane perhaps.
Support is a HUGE PROBLEM imo for Botlane if you want to exist they have to be human and most of the time it's not 2nd they are technically not supports anymore you see them either going full tank engage i.e. another toplane or full dmg i.e. another Midlaner and if by some off chance they are an enchanter well why would they buff you when there's a real carry on the other roles The fix is to make support actually play for supporting first remove sightstone vision should cost money and a majority of their income should be for vision of they want to build tank or dmg let them but there will be a cost Yes this will make the role boring for the autofills but this is the fix for Botlane as a whole for the rest of the roles everyone need less dmg Dmg is way to high we use to see that dmg nowadays only on FED individuals
tldr: it stands for "Attack Damage Carry", or marksman, their original design was that the bulk of their damage would come from autoattacks (so literally just right clicking people to death), and their perk would be that they have very high sustained DPS after a few items. As the video says, problematic being that there's so much mobility in the game that your DPS doesn't matter if everyone and everything can dive you and kill you in half a second (including tanks btw), and if you're in a position where you're safe to spam autoattacks, it either means you're already winning, or you're playing in proplay where the entire team is coordinating to keep you alive (and even that doesn't always work)
@@worldiefeard8396 To TLDR the TLDR for the absolute zoomer brained: You’re normally a partially mobile damage dispenser but made of cardboard in a game where everything in two buttons can send your hp from 100 to 0
Not an ADC player but i can tell you why its a forgotten role. If a tank like Mundo or Ksante who's only means of attacking one is from melee, and theyre CONSISTENTLY able to cleanse or gap close, and then the one strength ADCs have is nullified. It gets worse that youre supposed to be a damage dealer but you cant even tickle a mundo who hasn't used his ult yet. Which makes nerfs to things loke grievous wounds items seem really braindead because you're actually just setting yourself behind in overall damage by not just pumping crit, on hit or lethality.
i dont think its easy, but i do really believe adcs need less range and more durability. prevent the complete oneshots by every role, and prevent them being untouchable. let ppl interact with adcs in combat, let the adcs interact with others in combat. we dont need a glass cannon that only blows up, or blows everyone else up.
I feel like ADC has a defined role and is really fun when you get to do what your role is supposed to do, the problem is with the items imo. Items (especially support items) are insanely dense in stats and bonusses. In my opinion ADC is the role that lacks defense in favor of extremely high damage output, whether sustained or burst. Items right now in LOL have come to a point where items made for specific roles can be used on any champion effectively because of the stats they give; for example one of Yorick's most popular builds is where he builds full lethality, this works on him because of the insane amount of AD given and the powerful bonuses given on items like Profane Hydra and Serylda's grudge. ADC role is also heavily reliant on the support picking and knowing how to play a good synergy; for instance Nami works very well with champions that primarily use auto attacks to do damage, like Lucian, but struggles to find a good way to support caster champions like Ezreal because Ezreal likes to hang back and poke the enemy down until he can safely engage and use Nami's buffs to the best of its ability. I know that this is just my view on this but, I hope this will help people figure out how to define the roles in the way that they find best.
Leagues problem for me has always been that it seems as if Rito are trying to make every champ feel like they can have their hero moment where they 1v3 and win the game for their team. Which means every champ needs to be able to do damage so a role thats all about "damage carry" without getting the same mobility and utility as the other roles while only doing marginally more damage while also being way squishier just doesnt make sense, and when they make an adc with that utility and mobility you get Samira. And because its played bot lane it always ends up behind in levels vs the rest of the game, by the time the enemy mid/top/jgl are level 6 the adc/supp is around level 4 or 5 so if mid rotates or top tp you probably just die.
That is exactly it. All these Yasuo/Yone/Zed/whatever-Players only play the game for their 1v9-fantasies to come true. Why do Tanks deal so much damage? Because it is "unfun" for their playerbase if they don't. BUT THAT IS THEIR ROLE! Don't play Top if you don't want to tank for your team. The Issue there is that League became too big and Riot just want's to cater to everyones fantasy to make money out of them. That is also why everything became faster and flashier, because this is more exiting than fighting for 10, 15 seconds straight and not even get a kill. It's just too much work for the average player to do, so they won't play more games after that if even any at all anymore. That's why every champ NEEDS their 1v9 potential, so immature kiddoes can get their wet dreams fulfilled and continue to pump their money into Riot's bags.
I have an idea of how to fix this: -Tanks: make their damage scalings independent of their hp scalings so u can still go ap malphite but ur gonna be as squishy as syndra or you go full tank and you focus on cc, doing little damage -Mage/assasin: i feel like they are cool, the only thing i would change is making their cd longer so their burst isnt constant, therefore adc has an advantage there, or for mages make mana items not give much ap if any -Skirmishers, divers etc: less dmg than assasins, lower cd, also someone like yone with 2 knockups should have way less damage and exceed in sustained fights -Supports: delete supp item, the role should be as it is in dota, low gold. Therefore you should also make some supp specific items which are cheaper, though do not give damage idk rito should figure it out. Oh and also (edit) make suports scale off of lvls so naut and that things dont get killed so easily -ADC: i feel like the role is cool as it is, we just get oneshot by classes other than assasins. Lowering total in-game mobility or deleting differences on some runes for ranged/melee might help but it is cool otherwise
What you are describing is basically season 7 and before when people actually enjoyed the game. It changed because people didn't like they couldn't kill tanks(even tho tanks couldn't kill them either). So riot creep up damage S8 and just kept going. To be honest pre-durability patch the game was good tho, everybody had SO MUCH DAMAGE that didn't really matter what you played so it was actually balanced in a way
To make it real simple: Riot decided to nerf crit because it is an RNG element, and kiting because it doesn't give the chance for the enemy to interact with you while he can't avoid the point'n'click damage. The role who depended on both got obliterated.
Mage and burst variant is just way way way way easier to pilot compared to traditional adc. In soloque you need to play by yourself, can’t depend on your team to protect you so you have to launch all your damage out as quick as possible. That’s why burst variant is better than kiting sustain dps.
I think the power creep in mobility and damage in recent years has infulenced this change the most. Certain champs feel like they are "new" league or "old" league and if your a champ who still plays old league where your not 100-0 champs with 500 dashes then you get left behind. Each champ and rework just more and more egregious of a kit. No one wanted multiparagraph passives on characters. they just wanted to play a ranged dps who has potential to outplay with good spacing
As a low Elo jungle player, I always path to bot lane because it’s basically just an atm because I can just one shot them as Briar. Even more so if they’re an immobile carry.
Riot keeps insisting on making every role capable of fighting and winning, we know that ranged ad with fast attack speed will always be the strongest type of champion in terms of damage, so they are balanced around low survivability and scaling, but that was done back when tanks could slap you for an entire minute and not kill you. Now, tanks just kill you in 5 seconds, and bruisers/assassins/mages all do the same. So the only viable playstyle is burst and get out or burst and die, sometimes poke. Riot needs to release their own version of chrono break and let us branch off and choose if we want traditional balance or the modern "who can fight harder" balance they've been carrying on
My general stance is that the problem with adc isn’t that it’s “too weak,” definitely the contrary, it’s that the role is unsatisfying/not fun to play as others. You seldom feel like you can get that 1v9 power fantasy with the role, but rather an extra appendage on the rest of the team who happens to somehow have more impact on the game than you do, no matter how well you actually play your lane. Like, if some bullshit skirmisher wins their lane, they become high pressure monsters extremely difficult to catch and take down as they win 1v1s and multiple team collapses when fed. When an ADC gets just as fed though? Lol. Just collapse on them with anyone or even a losing assassin and they just gave a 1k shutdown. Especially in soloq where actual teamwork is nonexistent, the role arguably feels more devoid of agency than stuff like top or support. It’s also why the only adcs people play are stuff like ez and Kaisa cause they actually have some degree of self-sufficiency.
Y’all are catching on to this wayy too late. And btw the role is dead it cannot have any room at all in this state of the game. It’s been like that for way longer than just this season guys trust me… rip
Enchanters go top === 'Aww hell nah get that creativity out of the game' Burst mages bottom === 'lol just get with the times adc players' I dont mind either approach to the game design, I just wish it was consistent
Samira and Nilah can dash onto you without consequence because they ALSO have a defensive ability, where as assassin adcs like Tristana need to utilize her jump smartly, otherwise they will just die. Ezreal too, his E is great disengage, but can be used to do extra damage at the risk of not being able to escape. there are no more consequences for modern adcs to be out of position or to jump on top of you, because their whole kit is supposed to act like an assassin or bruiser who adcs already don't want to deal with. I'm a Trist/Ez main and ban Samira/Nilah every game
Last time I played a moba with any intensity was when DotA was a WC3 mod so I admit my ignorance as a caveat. That being said, even in those days I never understood why any given lane should determined the type of character that should be occupying it. I’m confident I’m missing something but I have tried looking for an explanation and cane away with nothing
botlane is probably the least diverse lane in terms of picks, since you kinda traditionally have crit marksmen and on hit marksmen. but mages go bot too, because in league they never run out of mana and provide a lot of DPS due to cooldown reduction from their items. it's just that crit marksmen are always in a bad spot, since riot are too afraid to give them good items. it got so bad that in the last few patches melee midlaners yone and yasuo, who are specifically designed to build crit items, didn't even buy crit items and went towards bruiser core items, maybe crit later, because crit just sucks
ADC can't exist in any other lane in LoL as soon as they are viable in other roles they get nerfed into oblivion if they aren't specifically made by Devs for that lane, add to that the fact that they aren't even that good on the only lane they are allowed to exist.
AP ranged are ability focus and generally have the best wave clear as a result. This makes them best to put in the mid, since having control of the shortest lane opens up the map to the other lanes since the waves are staggered due to the difference in lane length. You put ADC with support because the ad is extremely item reliant, and thus typically weak early, while the support is useful regardless of income. You put them on the bottom of the map because originally the only objective that mattered early was dragon, so having more bodies around it was critical. Nowadays with the topside objectives being more balanced, you see lane swaps often in proplay, but that type of coordination is difficult to achieve in soloq since it requires info gathering early with vision to get ideal matchups. Jungler is there to get gold and xp from neutral monsters, as well as support (or get fed off) other lanes, and top is for bruisers/tanks because they require the least attention and top is the most isolated lane. Obviously there are exceptions depending on the kits of the Champs, and their ability to roam/push/and stay safe, but that's basically the logic for how things are typically played.
The only way to address the problem is if they stop pigeon holing 98% of marksman into Adc role. Let marksman get use on other lane and let other class be played on the Carry role like in Dota.
Mage is the easy type of Ranged ADC (Marksman). Mage is the only one who is ranged type and faster than Brusiers. Riot should nerf movement speed on mages. Damage is a little bit balance compare to other roles but riot should give some magic resist items with crits. MR boots should be buff a lot. Riot should fix a lot on Tanks and Mages. Riot said tanks are weak. OFC, they buffed magic to destroy tanks and then Riot buffed Tanks to gain health in front of mages. Tanks with damage isn't fair and they should be so slow . In Riot game, Tiny one is so slow and Big one is so fast with heavy weight. For Katarina, she doesn't even have mana or energy.
When even this channel is noticing how mages botlane are a better pick overall than an actual adc is mind-blowing. Riot sees it and shrughs it as noise.
Meanwhile bruisers and tanks are getting vision freely roaming forward, securing vision and generally pushing their team's play area forward. I don't understand these people either...
LoL has a dmgcreep problem for the last 5-6 years and here its the main problem too. In the old clip it took several skillshots, on 10+ Autoattacks to kill each other. Multiple reasons lead to Dmgcreep: Increase in Gold, Riot optimising Items, Champions got more powerfull overall, etc. Riot will not change this back, because the game will be slower and less attractive. This is the main problems for ADCs too. They didnt get much defensiv stats in these years timeframe(they actually lost some while dmg increased). Higher dps over time becomes irrelevant, when everything is burstable. Or it becomes OP, when dps becomes too high and it turns into burst...
The fact that Twitch literally as a character can no longer spaceglide just tells you that traditional ADC'ing is dead and buried. The community of twitch mains whose sole purpose was to glide, and the biggest Twitch main in the universe all just gave up.
I'm playing Zyra APC, and my duo is playing Shen/Pantheon/Galio support for easy ganks on mid/jungle. When we play flex, it's usually me as zyra (sometimes I play Brand, Hwei, Ziggs, Veigar, or Swain) apc, my sup as galio/panth/shen, my son plays yasuo/lucian mid, my brother plays yorick/scion/mundo top, and our jungler just plays whatever is needed. I used to play Mid/Support, and my son mained Yasuo ADC in S13. He wanted to learn to solo lane this season, though.
They gave us 25% crit for legendary items, but removed crit from a few key items. Bring crit back to kraken, BT, shiv. And/Or bring back Galeforce. Best things I can think of.
people make confusions about this topic, it is not about adc champions, it's about the role adc, playing bot lane and having to carry, it's so frustrating...
My buddy quit league years ago because he saw this coming. For some reason 95% of all Champs have a blink or dash for the sake of making the game faster paced and it's damaging the game more than helping
I will say, that clip of DL literally using his E right up next to a full health chogath is not a good example of "not being able to kite" lmfao. He literally did the opposite of kite, used an escape tool to go melee range and killed himself 😂
I used to play adc bot, but was unable to progress from Gold, so I swaped top kayn, and all of a sudden I am climbing again. I am still ultra low elo, but I can see the difference.
The only way it can happen is if you overload marksman items with stats. Which is what they were several patches ago. Tons of ms, as, as, and crit in every item or bust essentially
I think a possible option would be to give all marksmen the old mord passive where he would get extra xp in a duo lane. Now that only fixes early game. The last game would need to be something like a GA but maybe while ressing it allows you to reposition. That would only be available for duo lane marksmen. The programming would be difficult to figure out but then you have ADC ahead in lane phase with an ability to be a bit more tanky if the dives are happening. Then if they do get bursted they have an item option to buy into to move and possibly be a part of the team fight. There are issues with this being a possible making adc OP issue but at least this puts them into a better play state that could at least be a new solution maybe.
Its a fundamental problem with solo queue though. The game is a team game, but everyone wants to be the carry. Instead of other roles carrying through other means, i.e. ap damage against squishies only, cc, initiation, shields, heals, vision control, etc., it became everyone wants to be able to kill everyone. Even something as simple as you need an adc to take turrets got changed so that ap champs get bonus damage to structures based on their ap and bruisers/tanks have items like hullbreaker to do bonus damage. If damage from range was the identity of adcs, and you give every role damage and ability to negate range or stats to ignore damage, what is left for an adc to do? For context, I hit diamond for the first time playing adc last season, so I've played from bronze rank to diamond rank and its a shitshow everywhere( a little less as you climb, but still).
i miss old jhin where he deals a right amount of absurd damage and you can really kite with him, nowadays he's just a walking absurd damage and not as fast as the previous years jhin
Here's a wild idea, maybe introduce back tanks. If Ahri Akali or whatever, couldn't murder your "tank" with one spell combo. and the "tank" could kiill the adc with one initiation, we'd have something for the adc to do...
@@ashtonshephard3852 percentage based DMG is already a bad idea. The function of hp suppose to be that it's number is comparable and so at least some level it represents survivability. Percentage based DMG only obfuscates this. Beside that, tanks could be tanker via other means, like armor or certain abilities to reduce DMG. There could be other anti burst means too, to make them killable only with sustained DMG.
I believe that the fact that the majority of the balances on the game are made with competitive in mind, considering how the majority of the player base are casuals or in the lower elos, it doesnt help the with the game health. If playing well can be completely invalidated so easily today, of course alternatives will be prioritized, like ap carries on the bot lane, or dual tanks.
How can Riot fix ADC?
Visit progressive.com today to see if you could save on your car insurance.
Riot just needs to nerf the tank role's dmg. I think removing the dmg of heartsteel, nerfing the dmg of sunfire and thornmail, nerfing the ad scaling of mundo, ap scaling of tahm kench, just gutting tank dmg. this is how to save the adc role. back in the days the main reason for an adc was to take down the tanks. nowadays tanks can just 1-3 shot an adc for no reason at all. if you dont play pixel perfect as adc a tahm kench or shen, or cho or any other tank can just walk into you auto you twice for half your hp and go away, now you either die or you're out of the fight, if we want to bring the role to its traditional times we need to bring out the traditional purpose. assasins can still oneshot you, mages can still oneshot you, those are the true jobs of both of these roles, but having a tank that is practically unkillable unccable unstopable all that can just 2 shot you is absurd, if i play anything other than kaisa or a mobile champ mundo will just walk straight towards me, being immune to cc because of his passive, and movement speed thanks to his ult, and i just die insta no counterplay. That is the single way to bring back the role to what it was. an actually PLAYABLE role.
ADC's need unique items, that only they can buy. Because other champs buying and abusing their items, like BoRK , lead to nerfs that unfairly affect them. Also, all other roles need damage nerfs.
before patch 6.12 zigggs was the only viable botlaner because mages were missing turret damage.
that patch they increased the ap scaling from .3 to .5 on autos vs turrets.
the adc in early league had the identity of taking down turrets quickly. nowadays there is no necessity for it, as there is way less splitpush and macroplay overall and whoever wins the teamfight gets to take objectives.
u dont need to think about having good nash DPS in your team or sth. back then u needed a cassiopeia or an adc or else u couldnt even 5 man a nash, whilst nowadays u can often do it with 2.
turrets should get 0 resistances and more HP or just dmg reduction, so that the armor and magic pen from mages and assassins doesnt work against turrets anymore.
(granted if adcs were doing maths they would have % armor pen instead of collector every game)
reduce the ap scaling on autos vs turrets, remove the attackspeed shard in the runes and make sure that mages that are played in botlane scale well with level.
mages often dont need to level their 3rd spell (ziggs e.g. kinda only needs to max Q) so for the ADCs that get more attackspeed and AD for each level, they want the sololane EXP whilst mages dont need it.
thats literally what the swain rework is for thats coming in 14.21 btw.
by design, adcs dont want to be in a duolane. they cant use their great earlygame as much there and they take longer to get to the lategame.
u'd rather want a champ that only needs lv 13, whilst still getting full gold and even if u want a supp for the adc like an enchanter, u can put taht bot and then have the adc with solo EXP in lategame.
Honestly, I don't think there is a "fix" for this. The game has changed, for better or worse, with how much movement there is. I think it's time all us players adjust with the game as well. If that means playing new champs, cool. If that means taking the ADC champs you like to other lanes, also cool.
It would require the gutting or overbuffing of many a kit to get back to the old status quo. I don't think it's a problem to evolve with the game, especially when the "solution" would probably require either complete overhauls to movement options overall or the massive buffing/nerfing of champ kits that will just make everyone unhappy.
@@Fgtr4Life couldnt agree more.
the "pick a marksman bot 100% of games" thing established well over 10 years ago and wasnt even correct back then.
now its even further from that and anyone unwilling to adapt is just our LP for the taking.
Being adc means that you gonna help your Lux support finish rabadon as second item so we can win the game.
the fact that they changed corki into and adc and hes still played mid is proof enough
For real. I was so excited to hear their plan for him, but when pros never played him bot and played him mid even *more*, weirdly enough they just left him there and no more plan for bot lane suddenly
@@oishiich.4814 why would anyone play him in bot where there is enough CC to kill him :D it's easier to just play the 1v1 at mid.
They didn't make Corki into an ADC though... they changed him from an hybrid spam R champ into a AD/true damage spell weaver.
@@Conantas they literally made him into an adc that was the entire point of his rework, and they classify him as an adc
Phreak admits that they missed the mark on the rework and are looking into a way to make corki adc actually work
In competitive, you can use voice comms to plan your fight and get peel for the adc. In solo q, you're reliant on your teammates to understand that you need peel, and many players simply don't care about you as the adc.
True because I can lock in Lee Sin and be the ultimate peel for my ADC but I lose a lot of the late game carry potential if everyone gets to 6 items and I have to rely on my ADC to position well, play safer, farm well, and listen to calls. But since I’m low elo (bronze) they rarely do that so it’s safer to lock in a carry champ and carry the game myself rather than rely on someone else.
It’s a shame because I enjoy playing Lee Sin. I like diving in and out and peeling for my team but I can only do that if I can communicate with my team (voice coms) or if they know that I need someone to W to to get out of trouble.
But they got that far to begin with without coms
I'd rather play selfish and fight ini the enemies' face or try to flank. whats in it for me? why should I risk my time and effort for someone who I dont know?
@@yrga7195 It's a matter of context. If you play selfishly when you have an adc who has proven to be able to carry well, then that's it, you're just a selfish player. Don't risk it if the adc isn't good though lol
@@IIMiikexDII only context is this: its solo q. im playing a game to have fun and enjoy (its league, people forget why we are PLAYING). doesnt matter if adc is 100/0 or it will win the game, why should I put myself on the line and do something much more than protecting a stranger on the internet and help them have fun. I would rather do my own thing first. my plan. if I was a taric, thresh, braum then sure i would enjoy that because the purpose and satisfying acts of these champs. if I am orn, ksante, aatrox, garen. in fact aatrox, garen are bruisers who build assassin and crit items with little defense.
yes I can take hits for you but its not really pleasing or fun for me to do that. theres no gratifying reward. LP? not enticing enough. I'd rather go in front of the enemy swinging. I did not farm for 25 mins just to be someone's shield thats not my fun. I doubt thats many people's definition of fun coz it sute as hell aint mine.
I will help this stranger have his fun shooting people with the cost of my own pleasure? I should wait for the K6 to attack before Ieave this jhin who is ulting while the team is doing another nearby and im not supposed to join? No thank you
Adc being unplayable is what happens when you power creep every champion coming out. Eventually every role has every tool to just kill them. I’m legit just walking down ADCs as a tank support at this point with 0 issue
Your comment reminds me of that infamous clip of Leona support straight up beating an adc 1v1 in competitive 😆
@@donydony1231as a support player I hate playing against Leona AND as a Leona.
She just by design has too much free resists.
Worst is adc players have been saying it's an issue for more than a year now, ever since mages have been consistently the highest wr on the role every patch. You know it's a problem when Azzap said he was gonna do an adc cl8mb to shut adc players up, and it was just a Velkoz apc climb in reality, PROVING THE PROBLEM.
Balance team is also biased, an adc is broken???? No way, insta nerf. Ksante is a walking bag of broken? We can wait a few patches to take5 base armor f4om him, this will surely fix him. Also buff lethalityitems while we're at it, a billion more ability haste, and make sure they can kill the adc 4tijes in a row, in case they bought GA and have a Zilian in their team.
We'll never have a Doublelift vs C9 on Lucian moment again, he would've died instantly nowadays
adc just dominated the game for 6 months please dont
@@mikkelsalling1422 for 2 months , and in mid lane not bot lane lmao , meanwhile mages bot lane were broken for more than 3 years and nothing was done , briusers until this split were broken for god knows how long , support and jungle has been broken for years and riot do that on purpose because "no one will play them if they are not OP" , please you dont talk
The lies lmao @@mikkelsalling1422
@@mikkelsalling1422 and it had nothing to do with bot lane strength, solo lane sustain and fated ashes were just too strong
@@mikkelsalling1422 The whole idea was that you were a glass canon, the team fucks peel up once and you get oneshot by an assassin diving the backline. but back in the day it took skill, now every single champ can do it.
Getting rid of giant slayer on LDR was such a dumb decision
I used to go Botrk-LDR-Kraken on every adc because I could melt tanks and Rito too thay away from me...
@@khaagos You didn't need those to melt actual tanks, you needed those to maybe possible survive a random champ that can just dive you, one shot you, dive another, one shot him too, and then just get away freely because he's also immune to any cc, oh and he also lost 0 health even tho you spent all your spells as soon as you saw him
@@SinaebYou needed all 3 since heartsteel and K'Sante (and also Jaksho initially) became a thing.
ADCs needed the armor pen and %HP damage to have any chance when they gave tanks super scaling HP + burst damage, stacking armor and MR, and with K'Sante they gave a super tanky champ mobility, CC Immune, and so on as well.
That one update started the downhill trend for bot lane ADC imho.
We definitely need a buff to armor and magic pen items. They are almost useless compared to tank items currently. We used to be able to actually put itemize any opponent by knowing how the game worked but now that you can't do that you are screwed at champ select.
@@drjjloveman and gv. also remove all the fuckin dmg from tanks they should not be bursting ppl
As a former ADC main/league addict, I slowly stopped queuing up as much about two seasons ago. I didn't know how to put it into words but it really felt like all the champs I used to love playing just seemed incompatible with the game. Tbf, I was a gold/silver player who really grinded normal draft because doing ranked while in school made me not a happy person so not by any means the best player in the world, but it seemed like no matter what I tried to do, I just couldn't get that adc feel like I used to when I started playing the game years ago
The Attack Damage Carry role when everyone has a lot of damage and can close the distance and is tankier:
Don't forget they also take turrets faster. Might as well delete the role, since all other roles do everything better with room for mistakes.
@@crescentryoshi3717 I weep inside a little when I remember there are people playing ranked in this game.
The lava lamp over your left shoulder wasn't on, I'm not mad, just disappointed.
Up. He needs to know
The fact that this dropped before the Ambessa reveal is hilarious.
Solo queuing as an ADC in league is incredibly hard to climb. Your matchups are so inconsistent, half of your supports are autofilled and don't understand how to lane properly with their picks, and your team the majority of the time doesn't understand how to play around you.
Even when you duo with a support main it's still hard to climb since even when you win lane, you generally can't make up for a bad jungler or top lane. It's rough lol, made me quit ranked in like s6
thats why as an adc i dont even try to team fight anymore. i run ap kaisa and poke from a mile away till the fights decided and i can rush in to kill steal effectively or just play something like trist and split push all game winning by capitalizing on a bad baron attempt to rush down lanes and take inhibs because im sorry but if you have baron but two super minion lanes pushing to you not much real pushing is happening.
My main problem with adc its ironically not the adc but the support......
I only find mages sudo figthers and some timed hard engages in sup line.... Its hard to find pill there soo why use a dps champwhen you you are gone be burned by poke, short traders or directly die where you dint have the moments to shine in long trades because there its none
Playing any sup enchanter or sustainer sucks there....
My problem its the exces of easy early and cheap damage sup items
Before you dont have these, senna and pike have ways to scale or get gold for expensive items
But now becauss the damage items you have anny one in early with a good option for his damage
What i mean its that, there its not penalty for going something higth damage vecause there its not that difference between veen hable to get gold for at least somr damage item or not going for that one in first place
The only examples i remember been go where brand and zyra but the first one have good base and hps burning
And the other have good vase scaling
THIS! I've been an adc for the last 3-4 years. I main Ezreal which is already a bit of a pain if the support doesn't understand how he is supposed to be played but getting through gold this year is a dice throw. One match 18-1, all objectives, next match 0-10 no objectives, can't even farm 😂
@@JayKayProductions or you are a bit of a pain because ezreal is not ideal in every game. if you chose to only play him then thats on you just as much as on others. On other hand if you are gold and you say your support doesnt undestand how ezreal is supposed to be played... but do you know how is he supposed to be played?
ADC is useless. A mundo with 2-3 items will have about 2 times the ad with 10 times the health
So true. Tanks used to be actual tanks dealing almost zero damage but being tanky as hell. Now they are relatively tanky and do insane burst damage to squishies (ADC).
Mundo is way more useless, he gets kited by anything with a brain.
@@michapiasta3072 So completely busted until GM?
It's weird because ADC as a concept makes sense but there's an overabundance of champions that are designed to invalidate them.
ADC can’t hurt you
Yea but Ap mages does hurt
The balance team has spent the past 4 years making ADC viable for a few weeks at a time and then overcorrecting back away because pro play will start to play around, get this, protecting the DPS. The problem is, that the ADC in solo lane meta wasn't even because ADC was overtuned. It was because Corki was overtuned and and you could get all of the AP you needed from a comp out of the jungler. On top of it. It was really only ever a problem in Pro play, and the nimrod community was like "OMG, OMG, ADC's ARE EVERYWHERE RITO PLS NERF, I SAW ZEUS PLAY ZERI TOP." while having the cognitive dissonance necessary to ignore that these picks had sub 1% pick rates and like 45% win rates in soloqueue (and clowning ADC mains every time they complained about mages in the bottom lane having like 52-55% win rates due to them only having like a 1.5% pick rate).
Caitlyn has 650 range, which is the same as Ambessa dashing into melee.
After the Tristana Mid debacle, I doubt they'll ever find a proper balance between botlane adc's being hyperbroken or being useless
Riot needs to adjust their strategy
Easy nerf damage sup items
@@foxshoot3138 what about say buffing the other roles?
@@sytherwusky same thing will happen
To much healing and now an inmortal yasuo and or other ones are in my front lane destroying my team qnd a ican kill it myself
Also imagine that with yummy
To much cc and tanking, now u have an inmortal leona cc me to the edn meanwhile syndra or other mage just delete me
Shield and we have the jana lulu problem
Riot break the trehshold where the adc can do ling fight because he can't longer create long figths. You got cc and you are done stay and day or back and lose gold
Just make league 2 at this point
Went from maining adc to jg, never been happier
The problem will always always be if the adc is feed they still can be one shot but the adc won't one shot the feed fighter champ.(They might tickle them before getting one shot)
Ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner!
So should all the standart adc's have higher base armor and magic resist? Now we have less damage in game and giving all of them an upgrade in armor, MR and perhaps also hp could help them out at least early game, so that they can easier get high in the late game and perhaps dont get one+shot by at least not everythink.
Or increase the range of all of them.
@@tntjrock3197 I don't think it's something as simple as that. In general adcs should be made to consistently win 1v1s against bruisers, tanks and supports/jungle, but should consistently lose to mages/assassins for it, it goes without saying that in that scenario mages/assassins need to constantly lose to bruisers, tanks and supports/jungle. This should prevent adcs from thriving in solo lanes and should create a dynamic where one class isn't head and shoulders above the rest.
In order for adcs to constantly win vs sup/jgl it would be completely sufficient to simply make sup items make their carriers not count against other teammates in the lane's XP gain (effectively making only support take less XP in a duo lanes). That and jungle would need to actually be constrained more closely to the power levels of supports, both gold and XP wise. The utility of Smite should also potentially be granted to roles other than jungle in order to decrease what is still very much a funnel role's overall game spanning agency. And yes it is a funnel role, because if jungle didn't exist either mid or top would have to share XP with junglers and as it stands the bastards not only have a monopoly on neutral objectives and access to a purely PvE source of income, but they are capable of 1v2ing, 1v3ing and generally carrying a lot harder then any adc would be allowed to in today's League (without serious community backlash).
And before you misconstrued what I'm talking about here, I don't count Zeri, Jhin, Corki, Ezreal, Kai'sa or any other champion that doesn't rely predominantly on their auto=attacks to contribute to their team's success (looking at you MF) as an actual ADC. These champions need a SERIOUS revision to be brought DOWN to the level of actual marksman for all the non-auto-attack-based utility their kits provide, before any serious talk about fixing the role as a whole can take place.
...Or you could make auto-attacks be like spells, not interruptible by CC, with a static animation, and make attack speed only influence the time between attacks. Since apparently any price power than 2500 is too low for an item that makes your auto attacks actually competitive.
In any case, limiting items based on weather a champion is ranged/melee was relevant before more than 70% of the game started having a form of instant gap closer. Here's a new way to balance items: Reduce item effect power instead for each dash/blink that a champ has in their kit. Heck make flash count for these restriction and actually give other roles an incentive to go another summoner.
Lastly Heal and Shield need to be removed from the game, or other lanes actually need to be balanced around their existence. At the moment the only role that takes these is ADC and this is also reflected in how both ADCs and other roles have been balanced for over a decade. Somehow this is acceptable for ADC and no other role in league.
People laugh at ADC mains for complaining all the time. Bro, we wouldn't be complaining if the role was actually playable. Half of the time, our supp is autofilled and will lose us the lane. If you get ahead, you have a HUGE bounty on you (figuratively) and every member of the enemy team is going to go after you in fights, but of course in soloq, your team doesn't know to peel and would rather just play for themselves rather than for the team. The fact that there's mobility and damage creep doesn't help. You can be well positioned but one assassin coming from behind can 100-0 you, and you don't have the burst or the cc or the survivability of pressing zhonyas to survive (looking at APCs here...).
Used to be ADC main, was done with the BS and switched to supp. 100% easier to climb with and the experience of playing ADC helps. I like playing supp but my hands are always itching to play ADC.
At least your lane still see what Jungler in your team looks like
Can't be helped bro most supports are handless
I think the main identity of ADC in general is range. ADC used to be called an ADR for a reason. Because it used to be a role where you can deal damage to another champion without them hitting back to you. I played a lot of DOTA 1 back before I started playing league and Traxex was my go hero back then. So when I started playing league I fell in love with the role of being an ADR on where I can have range advantage with my opponent. Yeah I will die from them if they can get on top of me but that's on me because I didn't position well. That was a lot of fun back then but now with all of the mobility and champions and items that have an easy access to get on top of me is the most frustrating part. Like yeah I get that you need to reach me for you to counter my range advantage but you should just have one or even two ways of doing that. Not a gazillion skills and items that will help you out. And for some other roles that complain about adc ruining their lane just because they have range advantage that's the reason why positioning are important. You and me should be rewarded for having better position but your dashes shouldn't be so overwhelming to the point that flashing it won't even going to be enough.
I'm sorry but "ADR" is only used in the Philippines. The CORRECT terminology is either "marksman", "adc" or "bot" (non-derogatory)
also DotA1's "adcs" are only called CARRIES (Sniper is another example)
ADR is not a widely used terminology outside of the Philippines.
@@Geheimnis-c2e Perhaps
@@Geheimnis-c2e Every carry champion is called carry in Dota, not just ranged carries
The issue isn't adcs, it is tanks. The game did not used to have so much percent health damage. If your tanks die the ADC has no peel and will soon follow.
They are heavily interrelated roles because they are each sacrificing stats to create a stronger synergy. Generally people don't play tanks in solo queue because they lack the carry potential of other classes plus their value is diminished with the abundance of present health damage.
I've been playing league for 10+years and I've never felt so bad playing ADC then past 2 years, since Phreak became balance team lead, this guy was literary showing off his Grandmaster Rank abuse with Mao'Kai and Janna spam until he reached it and started nerf them after that (maokai got nerfed 6 times after he locked the rank he wanted). 90% of ADC roster is literary unplayable (also smallest roster in the game) so it comes to 2-3 marksman actually playable every patch or just replaced by mages, it's so sad to see so many lay offs in Riot Games and Phreak still there, this guy has to be gone.
its been 6 years btw that mages make up the top 10 of botlaners.
literally when someone asks me for botlane coaching i tell them to play mages and come back when they are 500 LP higher.
usually takes them less than 2 months, they hate me when thats all advice they get. but all of them come back to me and are grateful and laugh about how ppl are still playing adcs that arent kog maw.
was the exact same in 2018.
nice lie t ard
@@xnrq u can literally use wayback machine.
least intelligent ragebait ever.
yeah but they have low pick rates, most botlaners play standard adc's.
52% w/r with a 0.1% presence is probably fine. Most players want to win, if it was really that strong we would see higher pick rates.
@@drjamaymay405 ppl just keep playing it.
most of the mage players either are midlane mains who swapped to bot or adc players who now play a different class.
also, there is far more than enough sample size. if WRs were fluctuating and it was a new phenomenon, sure, but u can literally go to lolalytics, where they track back 10 patches and every single patch its the same.
every single patch seraphine and wain have 15k - 40k games and every single patch they are 55% WR while the best non kogmaw adcs are at 51.
this is far from an anomaly or low sample size.
stuff liek that doesnt happen for 100 patches in a row, if it was bad, u would see mages with similar pickrates at the low end of the table. but you dont.
@@privatjetconnaisseur league players love optimizing, why aren't they more popular?
All we've been seeing for like 20 patches in row are nerfs bc riot made adc solo laners strong and massively nerfed gold scaling. Player perception is incredibly important to a game like league imo, and NOBODY would feel good after seeing their items get nerfed EVERY SINGLE PATCH, it also just gives the placebo effect that adc is even weaker than it is because of it.
The collector, yuntal and essence reaver changes massively suck imo by nerfing scaling even harder just to give us a cheaper first item :/ I don't play adc to have early game agency, I do it to collect items throughout a game knowing that I will be a monster late game if I play well.
I somewhat agree. But what I don't understand is how you describe on-hit builds as not being a "normal" ADC-Build...?
On hit has been a normal ADC buildpath for many years. Kog'maw for example has pretty much always built on-hit since his W is better with on-hit items and he likes attackspeed.
Do you mean to say that crit items just aren't as strong ? that is very possible.
And also with LDR being useless now bcs it just has 5% more armorpen than mortal reminder, but has no passive, I'm assuming on-hit is just generally better for every champ that can use on-hit. And ADCs with crit prob most of the time have problems with keeping up except a few exceptions like jhin, jinx and so on....
adc players heads will explode if they cannot build crit cloaks every game
@@quasar2880 Wait till you realize only a fraction of ADCs can effectively build on-hit.
wait until you find out majority of adc kits scale directly with crit XDDDD
Wait till you realize onhit adcs can only go 3 onhit items at best now due to AS cap, and Kogmaw's full build is half AP with Shadowflame Voidstaff/DC.
Kaisa is also like that. Not sure abt Varus but I think he either half tank or half AP if playing onhit. So, the "tradition" since this season are mostly AP dmg not even mixed anymore, there're much less autos windows. The "adcs" who go onhit are 2/3 AP dmg now, may as well calling them AP Auto Carries like Kayle
@@quasar2880 The "adcs" who go onhit are 2/3 AP dmg now btw, may as well calling them AP Auto Carries like Kayle
traditional adc have long been outclassed in the game. there's too much damage on champs with too much hp and those champs also have high mobility, slows, stuns, etc. power creep has left characters like ashe behind
champs like ashe need to be low hp to make the trade-off of all that damage reasonable. but that should apply to everyone else, too. tanks should not be murdering adc's 1on1 in late game, bruisers should not be living as long while playing the front line, assassins need to be out of gas on their first rotation and basically be doomed if they whiff everything and are standing in the middle of the enemy team. every other role has gotten more, adcs have stayed more or less the same when theyre not pseudo bruisers like nilah or whatever
great place to start? give traditional adcs more mobility. give ashe a dash on a low cooldown, give jinx a tumble, etc. at least with some skill-dependant mobility options they stand some kind of a chance if their flash is down
tanks doing as much damage as bruisers/fighters/any damage oriented champion with their stupid "max health%" damage is the dumbest thing ever, alongside the tanks that have movement like assasin junglers
i love when mundo can build 0 attack damage items but do INSANE damage because of heartsteel and his q doing 30% MAX HEALTH DAMAGE????? ON 4 SECOND COOLDOWN??!!!!!
it feels like every single tank that isnt support has insane 1v1 priority while building fully tank, they have both the strength of being hard to kill and not having the weakness of being slow or doing little damage
**200 years of development experience**
The downside of giving them dash is that they would just move to mid like what happen in the pros for the past few months, and people hated that.
I thinks it's about time Riot let people play champions on other roles.
Your only making the problem worse the long and short of it is we need to take some of the mobility out of the game and hard nerf both tanks and mages. Mages one shot from way beyond adc range even if they only hit one ability or sometimes it's even point and click and tanks can run you down with hyper mobility and you can't even do enough damage to kill them. If you wanna make it fair without changing anything it's simple we have to actually have cooldowns again Leona shouldnt have a 1.5 second stun on a 3 second cooldown I'm not saying g to go back to season 1 where it had a 15 second cooldown but it needs to be like 5 or 6 and dashes need to either be slower/ more telegraphed or get the same treatment a dash is a commitment you don't get it back in 3 seconds
so, the two buttons ADCs press before dying is A + M2, the third will be F or D to flash away
Why is is "not okay" for ADCs to be busted/op/strong? They should just lower damage in the game and increase lifesteal for ADCs to stay alive in long fights
I think more sources of life steal would be nice, but at lower amounts, like 2-5%, reduce bloodthirsters life steal if ADC has more access to lifesteal, and honestly I want move speed meta back, maybe adding a little more movespeed back. Either that or just make ADC THE tank busting class like it's supposed to be
The last 2 ADCs that crushed the meta were Zeri and Aphelios, being strong to such degrees picking them was make or break for a game if in good hands
If you increase life steal for ADCs, you don’t solve the problem you make it worst
Cause it’s not ADCs don’t build their normal Life steal Items like Bloodthirster and Bork
Yasuo, Yone, Irelia, Tryndamere, Garen, Katarina and others also benefit from
Yasuo and Yone hyper scale off crit and attack speed (two stats ADCs heavily rely on)
Irelia can build Bork
Tryndamere is better when he has more crit
Garen’s E can Crit
Katarina sometimes built AD instead of AP cause her damage was that stupid
So just Buffing lifesteal for ADCs only makes the problem worst cause it makes all the champions that Can use the items if not better and more likely capable of surviving
1. Is your support human? No? Lost
2. Is your support autofilled? Yes? Lost
3. Are you jungle-mid human? No? Lost
4. Is your toplane inting? Yes? Lost
5. Does the game even get to 3+ items? No? Lost
6. Does the enemy team target you? Does your team peel for you? No? Lost
7. Is your champ even playable into the enemy team? No? Lost
When yasuo adc became a thing I stopped playing bottom lane
The main problem with traditional ADC are toxic supports. Otherwise it's a great role, except for the abundance of toxic supports.
"all the ones who are in the top half share in common? Burst"
>Is Kog'Maw and Ashe
>Literally the least bursty ADCs
exactly what i was thinking
ashe is played for her utility, her best supports are usually supports who can carry on their own. seraphine/tahm kench both do an insane amount of damage in lane that she doesnt have to carry. kogmaw can stat check and out range most adcs, cait/ez/ashe/varus being some of the only champs who can farm against him rn. kaisa si the best adc bc she can go build burst, and she has self peel in her e and r.
The full AP kog build that was meta for a minute was literally unplayable, not only did he shit damage when he had w up. E,Q,R would chunk you for 1/4+ and he'd be literally almost off your screen.
Ashe is played because she isn't supposed to do damage, so can just be a utility bot for the team instead of actually carrying, and kogmaw is the only one who can properly deal with the tanks that have been broken for 1345345 years now
Therapist: _It's okay. ADC isn't here. ADC can't hurt you._
...Therapist is actually right.
tbh, the crit item are just getting nerfed all the time, want crit ? no lifesteal to stay alive. want attack speed ? forget about dmg. want dmg? have fun with 1.01 attack speed. that plus the sheer burst and dashes... unplayable. when adc need barrier just to not be deleted from nowhere in 0.2sec, you know you better forget it. that udyr or voli cant 1v2 you, and your support... and hes gonna gain more life than you cant do damage, plus you cant even move out really. stay in the back (like out of screen) until they forget you exist and pick up scraps after teamfight. there i vented out.
ho and if you wanna do your actual job and peel tanks... hahahaha you are a funny guy. they have a heartsteal and you dont.
This video is 2 months old and is still relevant.
The problem with ADC isn’t the champions, it’s the fact that you have to rely on your support. In fact, that pissed me off so much (having to rely on dice roll support) that I picked up Support until I hit GM just to see how easy it was if you use your brain and have hands.
As an ADC, and even moreso Hypercarry main, riot has fucked me every step of the way for years. DMG creep and mobility creep destroyed everything i was good at. I remember killing a malphite by flashing hsi ult and kiting him.
For me, i cant play the way I love anymore cause its so weak that I cant do shit.
They reduced per item crit from 30 to 20% and changed the runes in that time, so you went from 2 to 0 utility items without crit. They since gave us 1 back. Meanwhile everything oneshots me and unless i have a dash myself i am fucked. The durability patch a while back stuffed the hole for maybe 2 patch cycles.
People say ADCs are op, the fact that positioning, kiting and good farming lead to that one purpose for this kind of champ gets forgotten. Meanwhile theres a whole class of champions thats specifically made to kill you (assassins)
For years i preached that hypercarries get shit on by riot, and now is finally the point people start listening. My kiting, excellent farming and positioning in teamfights are tools that barely get me anywhere, all my skills i developed since season 4 are next to useless.
I ow play mages and my main Jinx rots in the corner since its no fun playing her the way i used to anymore.
Ways to fix it: reduce mobility for champs (will need a lot of reworks, also makes it easier to see whats happening, so good for new players), reduce dmg overall. Dont give defensive stats, just cut all dmg in half. Give ADC Items 30% crit and once you have 3 you get 10% bonus, or make that one a rune, something like "10% bonus crit after minute 20" or smth. Also reduce true dmg output overall. I often see myself take 30% true dmg.
amen
Waah I can't kill the tank literally designed to fuck me
And people act like ADC complain too much when they literally can't exist. Smh.
mages are there, u can play them. a lot of the adcs are good in solonaes, play them there.
when tanks are shit, toplaners and junglers dont play them.
when mages were shit this year, midlaners just played adcs.
when everyone built ardent, supps and midlaners played enchanters.
when bruisers were bad after goredrinker nerfs, toplaners and jglers also played other classes.
this fixation of players on only playing adcs in bot isnt happening anywere else.
mages have been the top botlane WR champs for 6 years straight and yet 92% of the playerbase still play adcs that outside of kogmaw dont even get beyond 51%
and all that whilst botlane mages are either midlaners who roleswapped or adc mains who play another class.
imagine all these players were botlane & mage mains for the majority of their time.
I think in the age of one million dashes, there’s no more reason to go ADC over something like a bruiser or assassin. No need to kite when other champs can simply make catch plays for you anyway, and at least then you stand a fighting chance when you inevitably get jumped on by mid or jungle. This may be a bad idea, but ADCs might need improved self peel tools or better mobility if whole teams arent enough to protect them, especially in Soloq.
Playing adc is dependent on the team so much that if your team is behind, you will lose. If ahead, you have no impact, and if even, you become public enemy #1.
Funny how there's no mention of ziggs
"baus voice makes me to want to be deaf" 😂 5:17
Ever since Phreak got into champion balance the existence of ADC in this game slowly washed down into oblivion of close to 0 impact in the games.
"high intensity burst" "on-hit kog'maw" ai type of sounding script. Besides, nobody considers kog'maws passive as something that "unloads" tons of damage after his death.
It's the ap kog build that has been doing numbers recently
Not joking kogmaw is basically a burst champ. You slow them down with E then Q for shred W hit 3~4 times(witch is less than half a second) and the person dies. In case they are a tank instead of a squish you have slow from bork to finish them off. I legit killed a fed talon today before he reached me with his Q because he used from max range he literally died on the way from full HP(and took 70% of my HP with just ult +Q).
For starters, they could craft adcs in such a way that they are the ticking time bombs they are supposed to be. In DOTA, if the pos 1 gets to late game, it doesn't matter if they died a few times without getting fed. Any carry on 4-5 items MELTS. And they don't die instantly either. They should make it so the support has a higher incentive to stay near the ADC and snowball them instead of acting as the second jungler. A way to generate more gold while in the bot lane perhaps.
Support is a HUGE PROBLEM imo for Botlane if you want to exist they have to be human and most of the time it's not
2nd they are technically not supports anymore you see them either going full tank engage i.e. another toplane or full dmg i.e. another Midlaner and if by some off chance they are an enchanter well why would they buff you when there's a real carry on the other roles
The fix is to make support actually play for supporting first remove sightstone vision should cost money and a majority of their income should be for vision of they want to build tank or dmg let them but there will be a cost
Yes this will make the role boring for the autofills but this is the fix for Botlane as a whole for the rest of the roles everyone need less dmg
Dmg is way to high we use to see that dmg nowadays only on FED individuals
As someone who doesn't play league, I have no idea what an ADC is but I kinda understand what’s going on
tldr: it stands for "Attack Damage Carry", or marksman, their original design was that the bulk of their damage would come from autoattacks (so literally just right clicking people to death), and their perk would be that they have very high sustained DPS after a few items.
As the video says, problematic being that there's so much mobility in the game that your DPS doesn't matter if everyone and everything can dive you and kill you in half a second (including tanks btw), and if you're in a position where you're safe to spam autoattacks, it either means you're already winning, or you're playing in proplay where the entire team is coordinating to keep you alive (and even that doesn't always work)
@@worldiefeard8396 Thanks :)
@@worldiefeard8396
To TLDR the TLDR for the absolute zoomer brained:
You’re normally a partially mobile damage dispenser but made of cardboard in a game where everything in two buttons can send your hp from 100 to 0
Not an ADC player but i can tell you why its a forgotten role. If a tank like Mundo or Ksante who's only means of attacking one is from melee, and theyre CONSISTENTLY able to cleanse or gap close, and then the one strength ADCs have is nullified. It gets worse that youre supposed to be a damage dealer but you cant even tickle a mundo who hasn't used his ult yet. Which makes nerfs to things loke grievous wounds items seem really braindead because you're actually just setting yourself behind in overall damage by not just pumping crit, on hit or lethality.
i dont think its easy, but i do really believe adcs need less range and more durability. prevent the complete oneshots by every role, and prevent them being untouchable. let ppl interact with adcs in combat, let the adcs interact with others in combat. we dont need a glass cannon that only blows up, or blows everyone else up.
Make all adc have bonus on objectives likes turrets, nash, dragons etc. when I say bonus I mean a really big buff. Make them an objective role
I feel like ADC has a defined role and is really fun when you get to do what your role is supposed to do, the problem is with the items imo. Items (especially support items) are insanely dense in stats and bonusses. In my opinion ADC is the role that lacks defense in favor of extremely high damage output, whether sustained or burst.
Items right now in LOL have come to a point where items made for specific roles can be used on any champion effectively because of the stats they give; for example one of Yorick's most popular builds is where he builds full lethality, this works on him because of the insane amount of AD given and the powerful bonuses given on items like Profane Hydra and Serylda's grudge.
ADC role is also heavily reliant on the support picking and knowing how to play a good synergy; for instance Nami works very well with champions that primarily use auto attacks to do damage, like Lucian, but struggles to find a good way to support caster champions like Ezreal because Ezreal likes to hang back and poke the enemy down until he can safely engage and use Nami's buffs to the best of its ability.
I know that this is just my view on this but, I hope this will help people figure out how to define the roles in the way that they find best.
here is the easy fix => make tanks not one shot adcs with not a single damage item
Leagues problem for me has always been that it seems as if Rito are trying to make every champ feel like they can have their hero moment where they 1v3 and win the game for their team. Which means every champ needs to be able to do damage so a role thats all about "damage carry" without getting the same mobility and utility as the other roles while only doing marginally more damage while also being way squishier just doesnt make sense, and when they make an adc with that utility and mobility you get Samira. And because its played bot lane it always ends up behind in levels vs the rest of the game, by the time the enemy mid/top/jgl are level 6 the adc/supp is around level 4 or 5 so if mid rotates or top tp you probably just die.
That is exactly it. All these Yasuo/Yone/Zed/whatever-Players only play the game for their 1v9-fantasies to come true. Why do Tanks deal so much damage? Because it is "unfun" for their playerbase if they don't. BUT THAT IS THEIR ROLE! Don't play Top if you don't want to tank for your team. The Issue there is that League became too big and Riot just want's to cater to everyones fantasy to make money out of them. That is also why everything became faster and flashier, because this is more exiting than fighting for 10, 15 seconds straight and not even get a kill. It's just too much work for the average player to do, so they won't play more games after that if even any at all anymore. That's why every champ NEEDS their 1v9 potential, so immature kiddoes can get their wet dreams fulfilled and continue to pump their money into Riot's bags.
@@Densema tanks deal dmg bc in solo queue you can't rely on your adc to do their job.
@@olivenibba2453 Yeah but ADC's can't rely on peel from their tanks either?
it’s 2018 again baby get bwipo in the botlane
What the ruck?! Adc has been unplayable for like 5+ years?! No way..
i knew i was onto something with 1 shot draven
I have an idea of how to fix this:
-Tanks: make their damage scalings independent of their hp scalings so u can still go ap malphite but ur gonna be as squishy as syndra or you go full tank and you focus on cc, doing little damage
-Mage/assasin: i feel like they are cool, the only thing i would change is making their cd longer so their burst isnt constant, therefore adc has an advantage there, or for mages make mana items not give much ap if any
-Skirmishers, divers etc: less dmg than assasins, lower cd, also someone like yone with 2 knockups should have way less damage and exceed in sustained fights
-Supports: delete supp item, the role should be as it is in dota, low gold. Therefore you should also make some supp specific items which are cheaper, though do not give damage idk rito should figure it out. Oh and also (edit) make suports scale off of lvls so naut and that things dont get killed so easily
-ADC: i feel like the role is cool as it is, we just get oneshot by classes other than assasins. Lowering total in-game mobility or deleting differences on some runes for ranged/melee might help but it is cool otherwise
What you are describing is basically season 7 and before when people actually enjoyed the game. It changed because people didn't like they couldn't kill tanks(even tho tanks couldn't kill them either). So riot creep up damage S8 and just kept going. To be honest pre-durability patch the game was good tho, everybody had SO MUCH DAMAGE that didn't really matter what you played so it was actually balanced in a way
Came for the LoL content, stayed for the Opeth longsleeve. Good stuff!
To make it real simple: Riot decided to nerf crit because it is an RNG element, and kiting because it doesn't give the chance for the enemy to interact with you while he can't avoid the point'n'click damage. The role who depended on both got obliterated.
Mage and burst variant is just way way way way easier to pilot compared to traditional adc. In soloque you need to play by yourself, can’t depend on your team to protect you so you have to launch all your damage out as quick as possible. That’s why burst variant is better than kiting sustain dps.
I stopped playing league mostly because my role stopped being fun in soloque. I shouldn't be obligated to phone a friend every game to enjoy myself
I think the power creep in mobility and damage in recent years has infulenced this change the most. Certain champs feel like they are "new" league or "old" league and if your a champ who still plays old league where your not 100-0 champs with 500 dashes then you get left behind. Each champ and rework just more and more egregious of a kit. No one wanted multiparagraph passives on characters. they just wanted to play a ranged dps who has potential to outplay with good spacing
As a low Elo jungle player, I always path to bot lane because it’s basically just an atm because I can just one shot them as Briar. Even more so if they’re an immobile carry.
Riot keeps insisting on making every role capable of fighting and winning, we know that ranged ad with fast attack speed will always be the strongest type of champion in terms of damage, so they are balanced around low survivability and scaling, but that was done back when tanks could slap you for an entire minute and not kill you. Now, tanks just kill you in 5 seconds, and bruisers/assassins/mages all do the same. So the only viable playstyle is burst and get out or burst and die, sometimes poke. Riot needs to release their own version of chrono break and let us branch off and choose if we want traditional balance or the modern "who can fight harder" balance they've been carrying on
I'm reminded of 2018 when ADC was significantly nerfed and the botlane meta was stuff like yasuo and vladimir.
FYI: ADC is an urban myth since 2013 .. 😎🍻
My general stance is that the problem with adc isn’t that it’s “too weak,” definitely the contrary, it’s that the role is unsatisfying/not fun to play as others.
You seldom feel like you can get that 1v9 power fantasy with the role, but rather an extra appendage on the rest of the team who happens to somehow have more impact on the game than you do, no matter how well you actually play your lane.
Like, if some bullshit skirmisher wins their lane, they become high pressure monsters extremely difficult to catch and take down as they win 1v1s and multiple team collapses when fed. When an ADC gets just as fed though? Lol. Just collapse on them with anyone or even a losing assassin and they just gave a 1k shutdown.
Especially in soloq where actual teamwork is nonexistent, the role arguably feels more devoid of agency than stuff like top or support. It’s also why the only adcs people play are stuff like ez and Kaisa cause they actually have some degree of self-sufficiency.
Y’all are catching on to this wayy too late. And btw the role is dead it cannot have any room at all in this state of the game. It’s been like that for way longer than just this season guys trust me… rip
Banger tshirt man! Im also keen for the new Opeth album!
Enchanters go top === 'Aww hell nah get that creativity out of the game'
Burst mages bottom === 'lol just get with the times adc players'
I dont mind either approach to the game design, I just wish it was consistent
totally off-topic but dimitri seems to have a great music taste
Samira and Nilah can dash onto you without consequence because they ALSO have a defensive ability, where as assassin adcs like Tristana need to utilize her jump smartly, otherwise they will just die. Ezreal too, his E is great disengage, but can be used to do extra damage at the risk of not being able to escape.
there are no more consequences for modern adcs to be out of position or to jump on top of you, because their whole kit is supposed to act like an assassin or bruiser who adcs already don't want to deal with. I'm a Trist/Ez main and ban Samira/Nilah every game
Last time I played a moba with any intensity was when DotA was a WC3 mod so I admit my ignorance as a caveat.
That being said, even in those days I never understood why any given lane should determined the type of character that should be occupying it. I’m confident I’m missing something but I have tried looking for an explanation and cane away with nothing
botlane is probably the least diverse lane in terms of picks, since you kinda traditionally have crit marksmen and on hit marksmen. but mages go bot too, because in league they never run out of mana and provide a lot of DPS due to cooldown reduction from their items. it's just that crit marksmen are always in a bad spot, since riot are too afraid to give them good items. it got so bad that in the last few patches melee midlaners yone and yasuo, who are specifically designed to build crit items, didn't even buy crit items and went towards bruiser core items, maybe crit later, because crit just sucks
ADC can't exist in any other lane in LoL as soon as they are viable in other roles they get nerfed into oblivion if they aren't specifically made by Devs for that lane, add to that the fact that they aren't even that good on the only lane they are allowed to exist.
AP ranged are ability focus and generally have the best wave clear as a result. This makes them best to put in the mid, since having control of the shortest lane opens up the map to the other lanes since the waves are staggered due to the difference in lane length. You put ADC with support because the ad is extremely item reliant, and thus typically weak early, while the support is useful regardless of income. You put them on the bottom of the map because originally the only objective that mattered early was dragon, so having more bodies around it was critical. Nowadays with the topside objectives being more balanced, you see lane swaps often in proplay, but that type of coordination is difficult to achieve in soloq since it requires info gathering early with vision to get ideal matchups.
Jungler is there to get gold and xp from neutral monsters, as well as support (or get fed off) other lanes, and top is for bruisers/tanks because they require the least attention and top is the most isolated lane.
Obviously there are exceptions depending on the kits of the Champs, and their ability to roam/push/and stay safe, but that's basically the logic for how things are typically played.
With this ammount of champions in game, the only way to solve this is to nerf everything to the ground and embrace the dota2 length of games.
Have you guys tried Black cleaver on ADC with hurrican hydra to shread the tanks armor and do some damage in the process?
When everyone is damage and something else, what place have a role that is only damage?
The only way to address the problem is if they stop pigeon holing 98% of marksman into Adc role. Let marksman get use on other lane and let other class be played on the Carry role like in Dota.
Mage is the easy type of Ranged ADC (Marksman). Mage is the only one who is ranged type and faster than Brusiers. Riot should nerf movement speed on mages. Damage is a little bit balance compare to other roles but riot should give some magic resist items with crits. MR boots should be buff a lot. Riot should fix a lot on Tanks and Mages. Riot said tanks are weak. OFC, they buffed magic to destroy tanks and then Riot buffed Tanks to gain health in front of mages. Tanks with damage isn't fair and they should be so slow . In Riot game, Tiny one is so slow and Big one is so fast with heavy weight. For Katarina, she doesn't even have mana or energy.
When even this channel is noticing how mages botlane are a better pick overall than an actual adc is mind-blowing. Riot sees it and shrughs it as noise.
Riot August when people ask why is this okay "what I dont see nothing"
Meanwhile bruisers and tanks are getting vision freely roaming forward, securing vision and generally pushing their team's play area forward. I don't understand these people either...
LoL has a dmgcreep problem for the last 5-6 years and here its the main problem too. In the old clip it took several skillshots, on 10+ Autoattacks to kill each other. Multiple reasons lead to Dmgcreep: Increase in Gold, Riot optimising Items, Champions got more powerfull overall, etc. Riot will not change this back, because the game will be slower and less attractive. This is the main problems for ADCs too. They didnt get much defensiv stats in these years timeframe(they actually lost some while dmg increased). Higher dps over time becomes irrelevant, when everything is burstable. Or it becomes OP, when dps becomes too high and it turns into burst...
Riot nerfed attack speed heavily, so that adcs would be bad. This happened around 2016.
I always say theres so much mobility that melee champions actually outrange caitlyn lol
The fact that Twitch literally as a character can no longer spaceglide just tells you that traditional ADC'ing is dead and buried. The community of twitch mains whose sole purpose was to glide, and the biggest Twitch main in the universe all just gave up.
I'm playing Zyra APC, and my duo is playing Shen/Pantheon/Galio support for easy ganks on mid/jungle.
When we play flex, it's usually me as zyra (sometimes I play Brand, Hwei, Ziggs, Veigar, or Swain) apc, my sup as galio/panth/shen, my son plays yasuo/lucian mid, my brother plays yorick/scion/mundo top, and our jungler just plays whatever is needed.
I used to play Mid/Support, and my son mained Yasuo ADC in S13. He wanted to learn to solo lane this season, though.
They gave us 25% crit for legendary items, but removed crit from a few key items. Bring crit back to kraken, BT, shiv. And/Or bring back Galeforce. Best things I can think of.
This mood in here is perfect!
people make confusions about this topic, it is not about adc champions, it's about the role adc, playing bot lane and having to carry, it's so frustrating...
i think adding like aa range scaling on lvl might be a good thing as long it doesn't make them too oppressive early game for mid and top
My buddy quit league years ago because he saw this coming. For some reason 95% of all Champs have a blink or dash for the sake of making the game faster paced and it's damaging the game more than helping
I will say, that clip of DL literally using his E right up next to a full health chogath is not a good example of "not being able to kite" lmfao. He literally did the opposite of kite, used an escape tool to go melee range and killed himself 😂
I used to play adc bot, but was unable to progress from Gold, so I swaped top kayn, and all of a sudden I am climbing again. I am still ultra low elo, but I can see the difference.
My man has the new Opeth longsleeve. Nice.
The only way it can happen is if you overload marksman items with stats. Which is what they were several patches ago. Tons of ms, as, as, and crit in every item or bust essentially
I think a possible option would be to give all marksmen the old mord passive where he would get extra xp in a duo lane.
Now that only fixes early game. The last game would need to be something like a GA but maybe while ressing it allows you to reposition. That would only be available for duo lane marksmen. The programming would be difficult to figure out but then you have ADC ahead in lane phase with an ability to be a bit more tanky if the dives are happening. Then if they do get bursted they have an item option to buy into to move and possibly be a part of the team fight.
There are issues with this being a possible making adc OP issue but at least this puts them into a better play state that could at least be a new solution maybe.
Its a fundamental problem with solo queue though. The game is a team game, but everyone wants to be the carry. Instead of other roles carrying through other means, i.e. ap damage against squishies only, cc, initiation, shields, heals, vision control, etc., it became everyone wants to be able to kill everyone. Even something as simple as you need an adc to take turrets got changed so that ap champs get bonus damage to structures based on their ap and bruisers/tanks have items like hullbreaker to do bonus damage. If damage from range was the identity of adcs, and you give every role damage and ability to negate range or stats to ignore damage, what is left for an adc to do? For context, I hit diamond for the first time playing adc last season, so I've played from bronze rank to diamond rank and its a shitshow everywhere( a little less as you climb, but still).
i miss old jhin where he deals a right amount of absurd damage and you can really kite with him, nowadays he's just a walking absurd damage and not as fast as the previous years jhin
Here's a wild idea, maybe introduce back tanks. If Ahri Akali or whatever, couldn't murder your "tank" with one spell combo. and the "tank" could kiill the adc with one initiation, we'd have something for the adc to do...
That limits ADC choices to tank busters, adcs with percent health in their kit
@@ashtonshephard3852 percentage based DMG is already a bad idea. The function of hp suppose to be that it's number is comparable and so at least some level it represents survivability. Percentage based DMG only obfuscates this. Beside that, tanks could be tanker via other means, like armor or certain abilities to reduce DMG. There could be other anti burst means too, to make them killable only with sustained DMG.
I believe that the fact that the majority of the balances on the game are made with competitive in mind, considering how the majority of the player base are casuals or in the lower elos, it doesnt help the with the game health. If playing well can be completely invalidated so easily today, of course alternatives will be prioritized, like ap carries on the bot lane, or dual tanks.
Sick Opeth shirt