Did Quaid-e-Azam want Pakistan to be a secular or an Islamic state? - Dr.Ishtiaq Ahmed - TPE
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 вер 2020
- Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed comes back The Pakistan Experience to discuss Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the creation of Pakistan, Liaquat Ali Khan, and the history of the country.
We discuss the perennial question, did Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah want Pakistan to be a secular or an Islamic ideological state?
The Pakistan Experience is a podcast looking to tell stories about Pakistan, and Pakistanis, through the lost art of conversation. - Розваги
This was the first-ever episode of "The Pakistan Experience" I listened to - and this happened to be the audio-podcast version. As a 75 years old Pakistani living abroad, I simply loved it and remained riveted listening to it right through to the end.
So why do I rate this discussion so high? These two words describe that best: it was honest & unbiased.
Ordinarily, we tend to exalt our leaders to a level that we start to think of them as super-human, which they are not. For whatever reasons, we have transformed and catapulted Quaid-e-Azam to a level that mentioning a shortfall in his character or actions is construed as blasphemy. Thank you, Dr. Ishtiaq, for your honesty in portraying the Quaid as a human - the way Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre have done in "The Freedom at Midnight".
And lest I forget, the young-looking host (I apologize for not knowing your name) surprised me pleasantly with his knowledge, intriguing questions and indeed a very smiling demeanour. Young man! You have a great future ahead: just don't hope and predict, remain focused creating it.
PS. Goes without saying that I'm now subscribed to your channel. ❤️
Ma Sha Allah Great to see the admiration coming from someone who saw the initial years of freedom closely. 👌💯🤝
P.s. The host name is Shehzad Ghias Sheikh, a lawyer, a Comedian and a Lums grad. 🎓
Ditto! Old and impressed by Shahzad!
any one can tell me the name of book which he is referring
@@aashirkhanjadoon1499 The book is "Jinnah: His Successes, Failures and Role in History". by Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed
as a paxtani, I hope you are **not** doing dawah abroad as otherwise in a few years you will have to find a new kafirum mulk to move to
Good informatic and intellectual discussion..... Love from India 🇮🇳
Yub
Jinnah created an Islamic country that no muslim wants to visit. Noone lining for their citizenship. No muslim wants to migrate to Pakistan
He is the first balanced intellectual in subcontinent i have come across. I like the dispassionate way he deals with history. Very competent. His courage , awe inspiring
u forgot "hats off"
@@brachisaurous HATS OFF!
Just because he fits your narrative of bashing Pakistan you guys find him balanced intellectual
Lets see if you feel the same if he shows the true mirror of India too
@@Hassan-ki4un if he is bashing Pakistan,so what's the harm. Its truth he is saying. We also criticise India when govt. Do wrong things.. its been 75 years that u guys hvnt realised your mistakes. And thats why Pakistan has never been developed
@@Hassan-ki4un I would love to hear your counter points.
I'll start with pointing out the positives of this podcast:
A) Highly enlightening.
B) Based on facts and evidences, hence, scientific in nature.
C) Unbiased interpretation and its elucidation of facts.
D) Dr. Ahmed a man of very high intellectual prowess.
E) Thodi si taareef host ki bhi karni banti hai jisne itna patiently anchor kiya. And more importantly he had courage to accept the things that went wrong on Jinnah's end.
Prof. Dr. Ishtiaq is not only a genuine scholar but also a remarkable human being. May he live long happily.
@2107Slash no history book in India talk much about jinnah ,
I am an Indian from Bengal and I follow pakistani politics for past couple of years very closely. Very interesting discussion. Keep up the good work borther and hats off to professor 🙏
And never forget Bengal was one of key conspirators for dividing India & mass killings of Hindus by then head Sohrawardi.
@@sanjayshrivastava8671 I agree.
I like Dr.Sahib. reminds me of my old Uncle.inspires respect and affection. Though I am a punjabi Hindu.🙏 But.muslims can't have it both ways.cant have its cake and eat it too..
One of the best discussions on your channel. It was a treat to listen to Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed.
Every Pakistani should follow and study Isthiaq Ahmed, then ALL doubts will be Cleared .
He is very objective.
Jinnah's daughter's claim on his Bombay house in court is based on the argument that jinnah was khoja Ismaili and therefore his inheritance should be in accordance of Hindu personal law and not muslim personal law in India.
Khoja ismailis are muslims as well thus his inheritance should be in accordance with Islamic law
@@aminahshahid8878 According to indian personal law, It isn't.
@@aminahshahid8878 What she was saying that Jinnah followed Hindu laws in the property.
Lo ji ... kya pagalpan hai
@@aminahshahid8878 Bhai Ismailis are indeed Muslims but they don't abide by 7th century discriminatory laws, they abide by the law of the land wherever they live, based on that she should get her inheritance, do they deserve that is a different issue. And my suggestion to all Muslims is to abandon 7th century laws, in this age and time these laws are inhumane, and discriminatory, you being a woman should be against it.
I often listen from people of other countries and even in India that India was a secular state and now it is moving towards becoming Hindu Rastra. This is not the case. India was never a secular state. It is propaganda form all the political parties of India for the outside people.
Yes, India does not have any state religion but that does not imply that a country that does not have any state religion is a secular state. A truly secular state is a state which does not give any kind of religious preference to any community.
In India for Muslims there is a Muslim personal law which is based on Sharia law, Muslim can legally follow polygamy, Triple talaq (only instant Triple talaq is banned in 2017), and others Sharia law. For Non-muslim there is the Hindu Code Bill, Which is based on modern society values and does not allow any kind of religious preference.
In my opinion, India will become a truly secular state when India implements the Uniform civil code which I don't see it in the near future.
@Praful Patel That's why he was cunning.
@nwfp nwfp By 2030 PK shall become largest Muslim country (presently it is 2nd), may be then you shall start claiming that 'Islam originated in PK'.
Good luck with your fictional - history about India.
@nwfp nwfp Indian National Congress (b. 1885), RSS (b. 1925). Since when have these political parties have become fount of history? Or may be in PK you don't get to read 'history' as a standalone subject, everything is studied through the prism of religion or politics.
Your statement is contradicting ,when we said india is not secular we talking about discrimination not about muslims laws .second your point about uniform civil code is clearly against democratic values and norms ,government run state on behalf of public ,how any government impose some laws on minority on the the basis of majority .
@@AliHassan-nz1eq In 1946 elections Muslim league won 87% seats reserved for Muslims all over India. In democracy as you know with 51% is simple majority but here Muslims supported overwhelming supported the creation of Pakistan.
In 1941, Muslim population was 24.08% while Muslims got 26% land (PK + BD) from United India.
1951, Muslims in India = 9.8%
2011, Muslims in India = 14.2%.
Pakistan (1941) = non-muslim = 20%, now 2-3%.
Bangladesh (1941) = non-muslim = 28%, now 9%.
You cannot have both way. I want Pakistan, get more than your population then stay in India, increase your population & demand all Islamic rights. If you have problem in India, you are free to leave as migration is nothing new.
Remember Islam is 2nd largest religion with 58 countries & 1.9Billion population.
While Hindus have just 2 countries with 1.15B population.
So Muslims are in majority not 'minority', which you claim
I have read extensively about the Quaid of Pakistan. Have come across certain articles which state that he was a Thakkar gujarati. His father was born hindu and they decided to embrace Islam in their lifetime around the time the Quaid was born. This was because they were maritime traders and also traded in fish, which was not approved of by the Thakkar community. Need to know how true this is.
Its true. Thats why jinnah was hateful of hindus. He was hindu earlier..he had a grudge. He sold fish. His village was vegetarian
In the grand scheme of things, how does it matter? Your shit don't smell??
I splendidly listen Prof. Saab's words. I am from Nepal and have a great interest in Partition History and Prof. Saab is a great help in this regard.
I have learnt to read Urdu script with great labor without any teacher. This is my third Script after Devnagari and Roman .
Much respect. Good luck on your journey, and I hope you inspire other youth to follow in your footsteps.
Amazing bro. All of South Asia should be together ❤
Great
Jinnah was influenced by his law education in England and was indeed secular. There were Hindus in the constituent assembly and Jogendra Nath Mandal was his Minister of Justice
and Jagannath Azad wrote the national anthem of Pakistan.
The mixing of religion and politics began immediately with the " Objectives Resolution ".
Neither Mohammed Ali Jinnah or Kemal Ataturk can sustain secularism in Muslim dominated countries.
Hundreds of thousands of Mumtaz Qadris exist ( millions, really!!) in Muslim societies who ferverently believe that ALLAH has given them the brief of keeping a noxious political ideology of secularism should should be kept away from the Islam-sanitized lands.🙂🙂🙂
Jogendranth Mondal was a mere figurehead. There is no record of him having done anything substantive during his time as a Central Minister. He could see the Islamisation of Pakistan, came to India, completely disillusioned and died in obscurity.
Jinnah was neither secular or fundemental.
He was an opportunist.
A proper policitian who craved power and would do anything to get it.
Jinnah wasn't secular. He converted his parsy wife into Islam, and he laer cut ties with his daughter when she decided to marry a parsy. I wouldn't call such a person secular.
Dear Dr Sahab, please read my question.
Oppression of Muslims in Kashmir
Oppression of Muslims in Balochistan
Oppression of Muslims in Sindh
Oppression of Muslims in KPK
Oppression of Muslims in Punjab (west)
How should one must decide which and where to fight the oppression of Muslims?
1 of Best dialogues that ever happened in Pakistan. Dear professor sir is as usual ocean of wisdom. Here more impressive is this young bloke . U r daamn professional dude Man@ 12👌👌
Sir, We need NOBLE PERSON LIKE DR. ISHTIAQ SAHIB in Pakistan, Unfortunately We are full of Religious FANATICS, ROGUE ARMY GENERALS AND DISHONEST HISTORIANS in our SOCIETY. We need a Honest, logical and Greedless people like DR. ISHTIAQ.
IN PAKISTAN OUR SOCIETY IS DYING AND THIRSTY FOR REAL AND HONEST PEOPLE.
tera naam hi religious fanatic h
At least you know religious fanatics. Most of the muslims don't know
Dr.Ishtiaq Ahmed sir thank you for your wisdom.
The interviewer have lake of knowledge about India and Modi/BJP also about RSS. He just talked liked another guy from facebook keyboard warrior. When you ask question with allegations on someone you should also have to quote proof.
If modi is butcher n Does RSS is a murderer
@ 56:20 - Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed perfectly described Islamic logic in response to illogical argument, “Islam is at the centre of the state doesn’t make Pakistan an Islamic state.” I have listened to hundreds of Islamic scholars like Mr. Jawed Ghamdi and Zakir Naik - they all twist the words; for example verses in the Quran mean exactly opposite of what’s actually written. The clause in the Pakistani constitution, “only Muslim can be the president and the prime minister” means every Pakistani is equal. This is the wonder of Islamic thinking.
The basic problem is that the source itself is not unidirectional. There are contradictions. Hence it is convenient to twist each sentence to mean exactly the opposite of what appears in normal reading.
Hi Shezad,
I am writing midway through this podcast, writing now so that I dont forget later. It would be really nice to have a list of the book references Dr. Ishtiaq mentioned here, if feasible. I may not be able to read all the books but a few might be possible.
Btw excellent and informative session this with Dr. Ishtiaq, quite a myth buster. Many thanks for that!
More power to you!
kindly tell the book name plz
" Afsos Ki Hum Doodh Se Bhi Jal Jaatey Hain "
We were hoping for a very open relationship between Pakistan and India. It was a divine experience to see Pakistani cricketers play in joint teams in IPL 20 :20 matches.
Pakistan and India have so much in common. With due respect to their proud national identities, both countries have the closest historical, cultural, geographic,social, religious and linguistic bonds .
Still, we treat each other with so much suspicion . We may place our trusts in very distinct people but we do not have confidence in each other.
THIS IS SAD.
We are reminded of a famous dialogue from the blockbuster Indian film " Pakeezah" when the bold and fearless Raj Kumar faces the ire of a cautious Hakim Sahib ( Sapru ) for giving shelter to Meena Kumari.
Hakim Sahib : Doodh Ka Jala Chhachh Bhi Phook Phook Kar Pita Hai
Raj Kumar : AFSOS KI LOG DOODH SE BHI JAL JATEY HAIN
We need to spread love and build trust!
Jenab @@alizawasimkhan1324 Sahib Adaab
Indeed
Allah ki gaand me lulli aur gando Nabi laudakhor tattikhor Muhammad ki badboodar ghazi haji namazi aashiq gay rasool pichwada me lulla ho Akbar 🐖🕋💩
Bahut Khub....
Jenab @@rayzimmerman6740 Sahib.Adaab Thanks
I must admit the interest and knowledge of Mr. Shahzad Ghias and also for hosting this show.
The shia sunni debate is similar to how both Buddhists and jains claim Ajatshatru the 2nd great Haryanka ruler of the Maghad Empire.
I always learn something new, every time I listen to professor sahab. And i feel good to see that you have a meaningful podcast, and you are a bell read man. Bravo
PAKISTAN will become worse than Afghanistan soon
Just like to share one thing that , King of Afghanistan Amir abdur Rehman also talked about the partition of Sub continent in his book which was published in 1904 . This book was written by the king itself with the help of katib ( Official writer of government )
Thank you
DR Sb is one of the greatest political Scientists of Subcontinent
01:00:00
The spirit of islam by syed ameer ali
One summer day doesn't make a summer
Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed is unbelievably honest man. Doesn't mince his words!!! Kudos to you Sir. Amazing podcast @Shehzad GS.
🙌
Dr Sahab, what is ur response to the statement that Hinduism is inherently secular and Islam does not provide space to other religions in similar way.
aapke pure discussion v jogendranath mandal ke example se ye samajh me aata hei ki puri muslim leeg=muslim aleet jhansebaaz thi,v aaj tak hei.
Thanks for sharing your valuable thoughts and knowledge related to history.
Good discussion.. But Pakistan has already killed it's minority, and now they are going after Shia. Please do not compare Pak with India..
With respect and India isn’t
Sir which book from KL Gauba are you quoting as reference ?
There is a huge difference between being a Muslim country and an Islamic country. Jinnah wanted a homeland for the Muslims of India not an Islamic State. His speech to the Constituent Assembly provided the blueprint and the guidelines for a future Constitution and it is clearly about a secular state. Of course there was an immediate backlash from those who wanted a Pakistan at the expense of its minorities which is why the August 11th speech was put on the back burner. At that time emotions were too raw following the bloodbath of Partition but Jinnah wanted equal citizenship for all. Yes he did play the politics to include all Muslims (mullahs, educated Muslims, liberals and progressives). It doesn’t mean he was himself in favor of an Islamic State. This is a disservice to the man. The reason for Partition was for the sharing of power and resources. Religion was a tool to motivate the masses. Similarly the break up of Pakistan was not on the basis of language which also was a tool to motivate the masses, but for the refusal of Pakistan to share power and resources. Western countries are predominantly Christian and Christianity is in no danger there. They are not Christian countries. This would also be true of Pakistan where the majority are Muslim with Muslim holidays etc. but not an Islamic State.
@@PS-ej2xn you are entitled to your opinion but I don’t see anything of substance in your response to refute my comments. And it appears that you have neither practiced nor studied Sufism.
Excellent program... well conducted and truly informative. Keep it up.
Jinnah had no vision of india or Pakistan. He was not capable of vision or thought. He had no thinking about future of Pakistan. British had plans for Pakistan. To control it for tacking Russia. Used, left, discarded. Thats the story of Pakistan. They are clueless about future now. They are trying to use China. But not succeeeding
What always makes me wonder is that how Jinnah having no affiliation with local culture, that showed in his westernized lifestyle and no knowledge of the language of the natives, could make the Muslims of subcontinent buy the narrative that he wanted to create a separate homeland for them. I mean what was Jinnah's motivation behind that when he at many points did not even empathize with multiple communities of that time.
Islam khatre mein hai. That was enough. Aaj bhi karke dekh lo. Mazhab ke pichhe chhup kar kuch bhi justify ho sakta hai.
He was hardly a Pakistani. His practice was in mumbai. He is mumbai hight court ka most successful lawyer. Pakistan banaake sabse bada galati kiya tha Jinnah ne. Abhi tak bhugat rahe hai india and Pakistan.
Religion, bro. Religion can divide and unite above all else. An extremely powerful and dangerous tool.
Simple answer. He needed power which all politicians lust for. So he played communal card
@@ritesharora4207 No he didn't did for that. Religion is deeply rooted in Muslims n hindus, ignorance, lack of education, poverty would've never led them live in eace with each other. You may be secular but all hindus are not secular nor all Muslims. We would've always been in a state of fight. Just like today it's happening in India under RSS n shiv sena. Golwalkar, sardar patel and many other were also present in the era of Quaid. He was never against united India in the beginning of his political career but later when he was disappointed, he started campaign for separate state.
Dr. Ishtiaq is always encouraging to his juniors. Wish I could have more opportunities to learn from him.
If Jinnah was secular,then why did he create Pakistan? If he was so kind to minority why did hindu Sikhs were driven out of their homes which went to Pakistan. If Jinnah was secular then who are iskamists. Who are radicals,fanatics? Which leader provokes them? Jinnah was the leader of secular Muslims or radical fundamentalists?
Or,he was simply used by the British? To again divide,India like Bengal. Where was hatred when bengal was divided? Where was a jinnah? No. Because British has a divide and rule policy.
He was a good person for Muslim. May be he thought if language is same people would be United. But it could be done in so many ways. His intention wasn’t to dominate but muslim independent . muslims are free today bcoz of him.
So why did he ignore the Muslims in India stating that they can be sacrificed
Free from what? Poverty, hunger?
When will indian muslims will become free?
He wanted Pakistan to be secular in the same way England was. A secular democracy but it still had an established Church of England, Bishops did sit in the House of Lords.
When the book is going to be published? Publisher name?
Do talk about Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, the tallest Muslim leader in the Congress party.
Check out his book, 'India Wins Freedom.'
Mr Ishtiaq, where can I buy your book Jinnah from. I live in USA and Amazon says this book is currently not available.
👍👍👍👍 another great discussion!! always feel much more aware about our history and reality!! after watching ur shows.!
Dr Saheb, you have opened the gate-way of knowledge towards understanding creation of Pakistan and the developments since 14th August 1947. Dr. Saheb, I will be grateful if you tell me how the members of the first Assembly/ Constituent Assembly were elected or selected.
Pakistan will never by friendly to India because then they loose their victim card,and begging bowl and how will they sell India hate. They only sell India hate. We have to go for one India or break Pakistan and make sindhudesh. Noother option. If India has to live,Pakistan has to die. More it lives,more it will hamper indias growth and create roadblocks. India should end their story..look at Germany. So progressive, strong now. This is what India should copy. Increase freedom,economic prosperity, standard of living here. Pakistan will die like East Germany.
Are your book available in net mean audiobook
جناح کو مسلمانوں کی تاریخ کا پتہ نہیں تھا جبکہ ازاد کو اسلامی تاریخ کا پورا ادراک تھا
😊😊
I can’t find the first interview with Dr sahib. Can you share the link please.
In India Secularism is synonymous with Muslim appeasement.
No...lol
Parties appease all communities for votes
@@anshuraj4277 I am talking about secularism not about which party appease whom. The secular parties are at the fore front of bowing down to Islamists and their demands.
And bjp always appease hindus like karsewak would not be punished even after he has done a crime
1:28:07 Shehzad the very same logic is used by BJP people when they defend Modi in the backdrop of 2002 riots. The argument is thatModi is complicit because of his silence or lack of proactive ness to prevent the riots from happening. Sure even he condemned it once the riots ended just like Jinnah did in August 1946. See the parallels? So if one believes Jinnah didn’t promote violence they should believe Modi is a champion of non violence too.
@@ThePakistanExperience so Jinnah was not in charge after partition of Pakistani state machinery? I see modi as true follower of Jinnah's two nation theory and he is making India a Hindu Pakistan.
The Pakistan Experience the argument Modi’s camp makes is that the entire central government machinery was behind Modi for 10 years ( of congress rule) and couldn’t prove him guilty.
Also if we compare the fact, the government in Bengal was of Muslim league in 1946 just as government of Gujarat was of BJP so both Muslim league and the BJP and by extension their leaders are responsible for riots atleast in terms of their inability to contain them.
The fact that British chose to let the issue simmer to benefit from the violence is very much akin to the reaction of Congress governments in all the three neighbouring states of Gujarat in 2002( they decided not to extend any help in controlling the riots so the issue could prolong long enough) and cannot be overlooked when we set out to vilify Jinnah or Modi.
And this is where I see (personal opinion) the big difference between Jinnah and Modi.
That Modi is a right wing leader is a truth and while his involvement in the riots falls in the grey area or the complicit zone or the innocent zone according to the people we source our information from, let’s not forget that Modi was not a big leader in 2002 whereas Jinnah was a national figure at whose doorstep the buck stopped.
Perhaps 70 years down the line when people look back at Modi they would look at him like they look at Jinnah today - some hate him, some love him and some note the fact that the grey area dominates a greater part of the person that he is.
Again it’s just that I simply can’t stop seeing the parallels between the leaders.
Excellent......professor is very knowledgeable and unbiased......❤️
Excellent discussion that deserves to be widely heard. It would help if you could break it down into smaller parts to facilitate easier sharing and ensure listening by the less patient.
Forgot to add that Qadriya and Chisti orders are Sufi orders. Sufis include people from all sects and belonging to a Sufi order doesn’t require one to give up their sect. Therefore if the Quaid joined one of these orders it doesn’t mean that he became Sunni, it means he adopted their path. We need a better understanding of Sufism before claiming that Quaid became Sunni. Sufism is totally non-sectarian.
@@PS-ej2xn Sufism is also known as tasawwuf or mysticism in Islam. Sufi orders follow the sharia or 5 pillars (tauheed, fasting, salah, zakat and Haj. In addition to the path or sharia (not to be confused with sharia law or Fiqh) which is about the exoteric observances of the faith or the outer path, Sufis also follow a tariqa with esoteric observances which constitute the inner path whose goal is to get closer to the Divine. These observances include Zikr which involves recitation and contemplation of God’s Attributes as well as taming the ego and transformation to a better human being by putting into practice Attributes such as Compassion and Mercy etc. in order to purify the soul. Sufism is actually Islam in-depth which goes beyond the superficial aspects of Sharia. People who think Sufism is not Islam have not understood it.
Great program as always, but the last one with dr sb was more didactic, informative, and perhaps inclusive. But great effort. Keep it up. Pakistan needs voices like you, now more than ever.
Didactic? How so?
Whether Quaid-e-Azam wanted a secular state or was inclined towards a theocracy is a moot point in today's context (as Pakistan's history has been over-written multiple times often to project a specific bias). This discussion should have been centered around what is best for Pakistan and why?
You know that mysterious x at the top right hand corner of your screen? Next time, try clicking on it - this universe doesn't revolve around you.
Thank you so much, DOCTOR SAHIB JEE.
Subscribed as discussion looked informative.
Cheers from India 🇮🇳
Congress might had done a few blunders, but it was a true nationalist, secular enlightened and visionary party. Its party men were real freedom fighters and sacrificed their lives for the freedom of the nation.
I love Dr Ishtiyaq sb. My favourite. Such encyclopedic knowledge and such humility.
Great scholor. Thanks for uploading
@@ThePakistanExperience your videos and interview questions are superb!! Must watch material for those who 🧡 history. Keep it up
مجھ سے اکثر پوچھا جاتا ہے کہ پاکستان کا طرز حکومت کیا ہوگا؟ میں کون ہوتا ہوں پاکستان کے طرز حکومت کا فیصلہ کرنے والا؟ مسلمانوں کا طرز حکومت آج سے 13 سو سال پہلے قرآن مجید نے وضاحت کے ساتھ بیان کر دیا تھا۔ الحمدللہ قرآن مجید ہماری رہنمائی کے لیے موجود ہے اور تا قیامت موجود رہے گا۔ (مسلم اسٹوڈنٹس فیڈریشن جالندھر کے اجلاس سے خطاب‘ 12جون 1947ء)
Tbhi tumhara bedaa gark h.... Gark hi rahega ....
Jinnah was an opportunist who didn’t know what he wanted and confused after Pakistan’s creation.
He was more about his own history and legacy vs fighting for his people. The people ended up less interesting because he had no vision of what he wanted to do with the country that was newly created in 1947.
He clearly has NO idea of what ‘nation and institutions’ building meant or what it takes to do that.
Gujarat riot kyon hue the ???
Main Kisi bhi dharamik Aadhar per keye ja Rahe violence galat hai. Kya Kisi musalman mein Bharat mein hinduon per violence nahin kiya hai har chij dekhne k do najriya hota Hai aur Satya hamesha Uske bich Ka hota Hai. Par Hindustan ki papulation 135 + crore hai par ginti ki Kuch 8 ya 10 incident Hindustan communal ho Gaya aap ke hisab se?? 🙏🙏🙏 . Nice chat session love from Lucknow uttar Pradesh I am BJP voter and supporter
The way he debunk conspiracies is awsome. Great academic.
For me this interview is informative regarding knowledge of history
Dr Ahmed is extremely knowledgable in political history of Indian and Pakistan. Once again Shahzad well done in your podcast ... can Pakistan not see Muslims are living across world side by side other faiths races, and cultures.. they need to open their eyes to make fundamental changes to foundation of Pakistan borne out.
Pakistanis are misfit all over the world. They don't accept that other religions exist and are surviving rich prosperous
Please share the link for this book!
What is the name of the book?
Amin Sayani, was DJ of Radio Ceylon (Sri Lanka) program, Binaca Geet Mala, very popular among people of Indian subcontinent.
Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed is right. Shehzad is really sharp.
But a Muslim mind however liberal it might be, takes a lot of time and thinking, to understand that Modi ji is taking every body along towards progress and not only Hindus, that the Constitution of India does not allow any discrimination by the Government and the Supreme Court of India protects the rights of all. A Hindu here.
🙌
ڈاکٹر اشتیاق کی باتیں بڑی قابل غور ہیں
Sir mai shimla se hu or wo train ajj b chalti hai kalka-shimla. Sun k bda acha lga itne bde-2 log yaha aye hai...
I do understand Ayesha Jalal's statement that he's just a political scientist, not a historian. There are so many political explanations for everything.
Very informative show man, keep it up.
Seclurism was a part of drama ...JINNAH wanted an ISLAMIC Country....
I enjoy Dr. Ahmed due to his deep knowledge and his disproportionate modesty.
Dr. Ahmed's book on Mr. Jinnah is an objective, dispassionate and a balanced study,even though one does disagree with certain conclusions that he has drawn.
Worth and recommended reading.
50 pc were punjabis and ,45 pc came from India UP, South India, madras etc. Soon after partition punjabis and Pathans were recruited laterally from navy military and air force.
1:09:14 just nailed it man!!
Behind that mosque 🕌 also
Always lahore is and will be famous bcz of two special monuments but will develop & shine only after deserving recognition of that “behind structure”….❤❤
Lahore is unluckiest lucky city to not identifying gem 💎 it had produced…
Undoubtedly dr. Ishtiaq ahamad is unreservedly & unparalleled best historian & knowledge provided of contemporary..
Thanks to u as well for inviting him for detailed discussions without any hassle
What is this "behind the mosque" structure?
Lov pur . Lov ki city. Now Islamic. How long. Ram kuch karega. Lov hamara tha ,hai rahega.
An event happens then all people look and form opinion based on their own level of understanding. The creation of Pakistan occurred and we should accept the verdict of history. Now we should move forward and start the peace process. During this process we should make sure we do not go back towards chaos.
We can't, too much bloodshed. Just think how many wars our countries has fought and soliders died from that. Those soliders had kids, parents, wives and when somebody lose their loved ones the sadness always remain in their minds thought their lives, and when they have a whole country to blame for it they can't help but hate that country. People like you and me (who haven't lost their loved ones through war) have no dog in the fight we will preach about peace and harmony, but peace and harmony isn't about us it's about those people who have lost their loved ones and forgiving the other country is near impossible for them because these are deep psychological wounds which can't be healed quite easily.
@@aryavart296 If peace happens, no more big packages for army people. No more expensive villas in Europe. No more benefit from arms deal. So lets all admit...the Hindutvas and the Urdu Islamsits wont give up their aristocracy .
@@haphazardblizzard799 except that there is no Hindutvas in the Indian Army. Indian Army doesn’t run India, unlike the Pakistani Army which very much runs the country. It’s different!
Prof Ishtiaque is so spot on when he says…. Muslims in Pakistan playing with the words!
However, I see that the Hindutva right has also used this technique only in reaching where it did !
Clawback clauses and all …..!!!
I guess this is playing with the words to make you ends meet is a part of psychology of the population of Indian Subcontinent.
Congratulations Shehzad for excellent show. Please do a show with Doctor Mubarik Ali and Ayesha Jalal too.
Tum sab aapas mei ek dusre ko maar daalo.........Jihad kr lo aapas mei............Mar Jao....
Bomb blast kro ek dusre par........ rape kro aapas mei ek dusre ki bahen betiyo k saath........fir Jannat M chale Jao.......osama.Laden, khadim rizvi k paas.......72 hooro ki bund chodo jaake.....mauj lo....m allla allla khair salla.....
The man asked for Islamic state but wanted a secular state, a contradiction. He got Pakistan for being loyal to the British. He was basically a self seeker.
Under-rated comment
An Islamic state is where all the religious minorities are provided state protection and religious freedom and this is what Jinnah wanted,there was no contradiction as it might be similar to a secular state in some aspects and he was a wise man who knew how to get what he wanted and being loyal to British or pretending to be was just another way, what's wrong with it?
@@aminahshahid8878 So a non-Muslim can marry a Muslim. Will non-Muslims be served non-halal meat?
@@vinamrasinghai2339 yes non muslims can have non halal food if they want but it won't be widely available as majority of the muslims won't sell it and only a few non muslims might be selling it, a practicing muslim can't marry a non muslim ,Islamic court won't register such a marriage but he can still marry at a minorities' court if other person's religion allows inter faith marriages
@manoj singh I never said that it would work perfectly because no other political or judicial system works perfectly either , there might be many problems due to majority of people being islamicly uneducated but Sharia law will still be bound to provide protection and freedom to the minorities
India m muslim ka genocide nhi ho rha hai
Thora problem hai but hm log dekh le gya
I am communist from patna, bihar, india
Born muslim but atheist hu🖐️
Join ex muslim forum...like harris sultan
Very instructive and informative.
Love from Dhong ,Gujerkhan,Pakistan.
Allah aap ki black vigo se hifazat farmaye
What is black vigo
@@NewsTV-wd2vm ISI gundas defending the 'ideology of pakistan'
@@AKumar-co7oe bhag pajeet
It is very difficult to judge who is radicalized muslims and who 6not radicalized.
At one place he would say one thing at another place other as per the condition and religious vigour.He was a great user of Islamic concept of Taqaya!
Jinnah was a controversial figure with very little understanding of the future. India was huge including Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1947. Jinnah’s problem was that he was not a humanist. He was an Islamist probably. He was not worried about killings and mayhem during the partition. He seemed to have lost conscience and instead of loving the lives of common people, he only loved the lives of muslims? End of the day he might had set the seed of terror emanating from Pakistan? As we understand today that a religion (any one of them) is so thin and not much worthy over the entire humanity. It is time to realize this.
We Hindu of world are obliged to 🇵🇰jinna sahab kaid e azam as g8 purifying service to Hinduism bcz we love ishtaq sahab as our guru of history. Plz take more green land of us but take remaing 💯🛕🐄🙏Love ❤u Pakistan🇵🇰 plz take remaining land & people pakistani 🇵🇰here ❤
I agree with observation made by Dr Ishtiaq that Sindhi feudal lords never encouraged opening of educational institutions in interior Sindh bcz thdn people would start claiming their democratic rights. Therefore they continued with suppression policy with common people. This trend still prevails in some part of Sindh. I personally visited Hala area during PPP's rule in 90s and to my horror the building of high school building was being used as animal yard . Same is the case in many other places of Sindh. The mentality of the feudal lord was that if people get educated , who would tender their animals and look after their lands. The same holds true in southern Punjab as well.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah family his dad was converted muslim.
The ancestors of Jinnah were Khoja from Paneli Moti village in Gondal state in Kathiawar Bombay Presidency, British India, present day Gujarat. Muslims who had converted to Islam centuries earlier. Jinnah's grandfather was a Hindu from Lohana caste who had converted to the Khoja sect of Islam.
Poonja Gokuldas Meghji, the patriarch of the family is the paternal grandfather of Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Fatima Jinnah. He was a Hindu from Paneli village in Gondal state in Kathiawar who embraced Islam. Jinnahbai Poonja (1857 - 1902) was married to Mitthibai Jinnahbai.
1:47:29 - a strong centre was needed after the departure of a colonial power because provinces could assert their sovereignty thus regionalism could have erupted and destroyed Indian unification.
regionalism is still quite strong in India but there is stability and every state knows they can't survive alone separated from India.
@@uzochiokeke4328 the strong centre he meant was what we have today
Why no time stamps for this video?
Thank you so much Dear Doctor Sahib and Shezad for this brilliant and eyeopener chat. Cleared to some extent THE ENIGMATIC AND THE PRAGMATIC approach of THE QAUID. Thanks again.
I was waiting for dr saab s new interview
Excellent interview very grateful to dr sb for bring out his prospective of history.
On the records : Jinnah Sahab ne kaha woh Political representative & not religious representative.
He was the first one to say no - when congress thought of Khalifat or Khilafat movement.
a very spirited interview and discussion..shehzad should've have read the book before interviewing Dr ishtiaq. cuz for the most of the time..shehzad was trying to find excuses and repeated himself to try to defend the indefensible Mr.Jinnah..
I learnt a lot from this learned scholar...hopefully u will interview him again after reading the book and will be better prepared to face Dr.Ahmed.
Jawaharlal Nehru and congress declared that they are going ahead with land reform and therefore land lords approach Mr. Jinna for help. Mr. jinna allowed himself to became a scape goat and gone for Pakistan. Pakistan was created only to protect landlords and not for Muslims.
So much of learning by Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed! Astonishing!!!