Pakistan: The Garrison State: Origins, Evolution, Consequences (1947-2011) | Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed

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  • Опубліковано 24 лис 2024

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  • @anandsharma9125
    @anandsharma9125 Рік тому +35

    You feel like keep on listening n learning from Dr Parwez Sahab and De Ishtiaq. Thank you 🙏

  • @sydneydesouza9719
    @sydneydesouza9719 Рік тому +67

    I am an 86 year Goan Indian American, Born(Lahore 1937) raised & educated in India in an Anglophone environment , lived 50 years in India - an Electrical Engineer & the then moved to the States.
    Even though I don’t understand Urdu I had to learn Hindi as a subject at age 13, so can understand the gist of what is being said by these gentlemen. To me the people of India & Pakistan are one & the same . My mothers brothers house in Lahore where I was born ( both Goans) whose children considered themselves
    Pakistanis & we Indians- but of the same blood- was I think tragic.
    From the trend of the discussion I seem to get the sense that ya’ll are talking about some unity between India & Pakistan. I pray to the Almighty that that may happen before my death. I will then die a happy man
    Sydney Desouza - A Goan Indian American Catholic now living in Georgia USA.

    • @Hararyoukoz3106
      @Hararyoukoz3106 Рік тому +5

      So sweet of you sir 😌 your type of person we want your of 86 age and your are thinking about this hats of sir.and I think you had alos want to vist your ansectral Lahore house , may god make your and our wishes ful fil that we will be unite and l am making pardon 🙏 that if any something to you in pakistan,I think that's why you leave? So sorry sir on behalf of the person who had hurt you at that time. Be happy and soon this will happen and may you live long life 💝

    • @i_will_always_know
      @i_will_always_know Рік тому +4

      Sir, I respect ur opinion, but i dont think I want such leaders in my country.. I would say good riddance n take some more from our side if u can..
      Also all the people have been crying to not allow any pakistanis in their country, which includes their step father turkey as well. So.. Do we want such people in our neighborhood?? I would surely pass..

    • @ArmageddonIsHere
      @ArmageddonIsHere Рік тому +7

      Very nice sentiments, but totally wrong.
      Sir, you've been 50 years out of touch with the subcontinent, and much water and blood has flowed under the proverbial bridges, since then.
      "The people of both countries are the same": they were once, pre-1947. No longer. Their paths and minds have diverged a lot.
      Don't believe me? See the differential treatment of Pakistanis and Indians at airports abroad.

    • @whocareswhoami7278
      @whocareswhoami7278 Рік тому

      If you are realistic, radicalised Pakistan cannot have normal relationship with India.

    • @abhayadash9658
      @abhayadash9658 Рік тому

      It will not happen, because Pak army and political class have infused 'hate' into their body and mind towards Hindus and India that a peaceful coexistence is impossible.

  • @atulmittal5809
    @atulmittal5809 Рік тому +60

    My goodness!! Fantastic. When such a debate emanates from Pakistani soil, I in India remain positive on Pakistan becoming truely civilian governed nation.
    One may agree or disagree with the speakers, but all the three speakers were honest to the core of their hearts.🙏🙏

    • @djawalikar2006
      @djawalikar2006 Рік тому +6

      Honest ; very true but the honesty holds good until india comes in the discussion. Even the learned speakers of pakistan whom we rever and admire, secretly wish that india would turn to a majoritarian state which it would never be.

    • @SimranDhillon186
      @SimranDhillon186 Рік тому +1

      @@djawalikar2006 modi is helping them

    • @dollartreeshark6786
      @dollartreeshark6786 Рік тому

      @@SimranDhillon186 How so? Except the right to kill a cow and eat it, what are Muslims lacking?

    • @djawalikar2006
      @djawalikar2006 Рік тому +9

      @@SimranDhillon186 is it Modi or the fake leftist ideology helping them ? i appreciate critical thinking and analysis is important. but just look what had become of us by over appeasement of muslims. remember Shah Bano case ? Modi is trying to make enactments by virtue of which every citizen irrespective of their creed/ believe/religion will be equal. Latest example is tripple talaq enactment.

    • @Arianne3011
      @Arianne3011 Рік тому

      ​​@@djawalikar2006no one can be both sincere and yet also in denial of the fact that the Indian Regressive-Left Ecosystem is full of Islamo-Leftist Dhimmis suffering from acute Hindumisia - afterall they don't even try to hide it or pretend to be otherwise.
      As a result the Ecosystem is also the booming Echo Chamber of the idea according to which _"if you refuse to pander to appeasement of Muslims, especially closet-Islamists, it means you are communal (in all likelihood, a Hindu majoritarian extremist). Period!"_
      ..... So don't even bother raising even the simple telltale queries such as, _"which Indian Politician (Muslim or non-Muslim) has made most significant contributions towards the upliftment of the unprivileged Muslims, especially Muslin women in India in the last 75 years?"_ since neither the mandarins nor the footsoldiers of the Ecosystem welcome intellectual rigour or honesty in arriving at their conclusions; instead they rely on already settled pre-concieved notions regarding such issues.

  • @rahulgogate3580
    @rahulgogate3580 Рік тому +72

    Listening to Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed is always a great pleasure. Superb. 🙏 from India

    • @murlidharkhatkale5208
      @murlidharkhatkale5208 9 місяців тому

      These madcap warmongers always misguided people. Actually only power-hungry megalomaniacs were always interested in vast bloodshed and miserable life for the normal common citizens. Americans were interested in spread of war in the so called third world countries. Extreme poverty, miserable status of the general public and extremely undeveloped status of the so called third world countries. Especially warmongering western countries take this situation as funny and entertaining. Please kindly stop it being entertaining and funny situation thanks.

  • @rizwan_bosan
    @rizwan_bosan Рік тому +58

    Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed, a sane voice. My teacher

    • @pankabhargo
      @pankabhargo Рік тому +5

      Wow , u r so lucky to have him as a teacher , he along with dr Hoodboy are my Favourite thinkers from Pakistan

  • @AshMahajan-t1i
    @AshMahajan-t1i Рік тому +26

    As an Indian Hindu with refugee family roots in Pakistani Kashmir, I say to my Pakistani brothers, may the Force be with you! May you have all of the blessings and support of God and this world as you work through these tremendous challenges being faced by your nation. May Pakistan succeed, prevail and grow to ever greater heights! God Bless all of you and all of us!

  • @amandeep9930
    @amandeep9930 Рік тому +98

    Dr Ishtiyaq's work is the most significant historical work of the modern times.

    • @harishnaithani1441
      @harishnaithani1441 Рік тому

      Dr. Ishtiyak do believe in eslamic history as a mulla in Pakistan. He thoughts that before eslam there was gurbat and darkness is the this world. After eslam the world enlighten through eslam. This is his historical knowledge.

    • @murlidharkhatkale5208
      @murlidharkhatkale5208 8 місяців тому

      Islam was well-nurtured after the teachings of Paigambarsahab and other well nurtured Islamic philosophers Because of new and simple religious philosophy and less importance was given to the priestly class and excellently simple and oriented Islamic philosophy easier to understand by the common simplicitic people appealed to many people. Most of religious philosophies become very complicated when the professional priestly class add lot of rituals and complicated dogmatic mayajals which are difficult to be understood by the simplicitic common people this horrible developments happened to all the religions of the world. Complicated ritualistic dogmas, mean-minded hatred towards other religions. Sophisticated religious philosophies accompanied by mutual hatred towards other cultures, religions etc. Very few religions maintain their original simple, creative, easy to understand and follow by all the poor, needy, and common unsophisticated followers. Highly accomplished leaders and their senior followers, make life for the newly entering Jigyasus easy and successful. Very few religions remain within the capacity of the new entrants. Life as it is in the competitive retrace is difficult for the newcomming entrants.the competitive exhausting retrace of the modern world makes the spiritual practice attractive and soothing all the mental anomalies and torturers. Let us hope that more advanced and simplicitically practical for all the needy jigyasus.😊

    • @Taja561
      @Taja561 3 місяці тому

      Google “Will Durant”

  • @SanjayTiwari-bh8rd
    @SanjayTiwari-bh8rd Рік тому +31

    The handwriting of the person who has written on the black board is awesome and always attracts attention.
    It is always pleasant to hear Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed, today all the three stalwarts together is a bonus.

  • @SubhashSharma-mr7ic
    @SubhashSharma-mr7ic Рік тому +40

    This is the most sensible, brutally honest & objective discussion in Pak by one of the best brain & genuine well wisher of Pak. Subhash Sharma from India

    • @amit9023
      @amit9023 Рік тому +5

      He said Pakistan is democracy... And India is not... And u think it's genuine 😀

    • @nitishsaxena1372
      @nitishsaxena1372 Рік тому

      @@amit9023 when did he say that? Right from the start they all have been saying quite the opposite.
      At 1:20:04, Ishtiaq sahb literally says Pakistan is a failed democracy.

    • @mlg1279
      @mlg1279 Рік тому

      @@saqibshahud1524 Not really. As of now, India doesn't waste it's time or energy on pa-kistan.

    • @motivation5044
      @motivation5044 Рік тому

      No one listens them in Pakistan
      Only duffer endians listen them 🤣

    • @motivation5044
      @motivation5044 Рік тому +1

      @@saqibshahud1524 listen bro
      I'm a endian muslim
      U r very fortunate to have a country or living in a muslim country....
      I want to say one thing to you that majority of Hindu 99.9% hates Pakistan and Muslims very much
      In india, Pakistan is a gaali...
      Never believe them they are highly makkar

  • @valvirchauhan6127
    @valvirchauhan6127 Рік тому +14

    Wow! It’s so insightful. Even after two hours felt like why it’s being stopped. Just great discussion

  • @globalgatherings1
    @globalgatherings1 Рік тому +12

    Thank you Blackhole for this amazing platform. The discussion was very enlighting and 2 hours seems like 20 minutes. I wish everyone could listen to such an enlighting discussion in a state where talking on such sensitive topics are infrequent.

  • @2sridhark
    @2sridhark Рік тому +9

    Sane voices of Pakistan.
    Good to see Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy and DR Ishtiaq Ahmed together on a common platform.

  • @KhawjaAziz
    @KhawjaAziz Рік тому +14

    Long awaited objective discourse with undiluted truth. A refreshing and rare treat to listen to these remarkable intellectuals.

    • @awaisahmed8095
      @awaisahmed8095 Рік тому

      O bhai ya kya batain ker rahay hain koi smej a rahi hai ya quaid azam kay hilaf kyon bol rahay hain jinhon nay PakistAn bnaya hai aur zia ul haq kay khilaf kya baqwas ker rahay hain us nay PakistAn aur afganistan ko bachaya hai koi sharam kero PakistAnis apni heros ki qader nahi kertay is liya aj ya haal hai

  • @waqarahmad1064
    @waqarahmad1064 Рік тому +56

    I am an MBBS student.i got so much interested in social studies and history because of black hole that I can watch the 2 3 hrs session continuously.debates and discussion of these kinds should be promoted and encouraged every where in this country.

    • @ashwinbenegal
      @ashwinbenegal Рік тому

      I’m hoping you aren’t an Indian! 😁

    • @waqarahmad1064
      @waqarahmad1064 Рік тому

      @@ashwinbenegal nope

    • @shreeyanksinghvi7748
      @shreeyanksinghvi7748 Рік тому

      Pakistan was created for landlord class that call themselves muslim, they fear nehru will start land reform so they will loose these land.
      all muslim league leaders were from elite class, no one was connected with general mass ,no one wanted to improve the education standard of muslim masses, they uses Islamic touch to start calcutta riot, rape of Rawalpindi, Noakhali riot,etc in return muslim masses faced bihar riot, jammu massacre, exodus of muslim from east Punjab and this led to margilization of muslim in subcontinent as india virtually lost it muslim elite class as they migrated to Pakistan and Bangladesh and they fear competition from there hindu counterpart.
      india successfully implemented its land reform but in pakistan hardly there was land reform.
      congress did right thing by accepting partition as they know they will have no control over where muslim league warlord are rulling and muslim league will use stanza of quran to start riot like calcutta riot.

    • @Count.Dracula46
      @Count.Dracula46 Рік тому

      O bhai apni degree kro, phir 6, 7 saal lganay beth jao gay 😂 Goli maaro social studies ko

    • @awaisahmed8095
      @awaisahmed8095 Рік тому

      O bhai ya kya batain ker rahay hain koi smej a rahi hai aur ya zia ul haq kay khilaf kya baqwas ker rahay hain us nay PakistAn aur afganistan ko bachaya hai

  • @nerdy4172
    @nerdy4172 Рік тому +82

    What an insightful discussion. Dr. Ishtiaq is such an amazing thinker who always welcomes criticism and his opinions are based on thoroughly researched content. Love you sir. And pervez hoodbhoy did an amazing job as a moderator. And the other guest also gave very insightful opinions.

  • @balwantrai3447
    @balwantrai3447 Рік тому +96

    What an excellent discussion between 3 distinguished people. It has enabled us to revisit history and the wayout of the present mess ongoing in Pak. My best wishes.

    • @ajitsinghees7909
      @ajitsinghees7909 Рік тому +1

      Ever since I heard your speak in Adab I am glued to my phone, hearing one speech after the other.
      Islam, to me, is not what one finds in Quran, Islam is what it’s followers practice. After what was done to minorities particularly Hindus in Pakistan and Kashmir can any one question Islamophobia. Can’t Pakistani , who sheltered the perpetrator of 26/11 and 9/11, guess why their VISA is rejected world over.

    • @handsomepappi
      @handsomepappi Рік тому

      ​@@ajitsinghees7909Do some research on Google to see how many Indians get their visa rejected. Hindus of India selected extremist BJP/RSS led government, can they claim to be secular or non-violent when agenda of these parties is to eliminate minorities for a greater hindu state? Irony is a majority of them say Hinduism isn't a religion even. 9/11 had questions within US pointing to this being an inside job. Attack on Iraq on fabricated accusations of WMDs and then Libya had no justification. All over the world Muslims were killed in millions but yes they're terrorists because few of them retaliated. Kashmirs are fighting for their freedom and Pakistan fully supports all means, call it whatever you like Pakistanis least bother. The fact remains that in 76 years and before India and extremist Hindus (which are in big numbers) have been obsessed with Pakistan and Muslims, will always be.

    • @dr.numairsulehri4377
      @dr.numairsulehri4377 Рік тому

      ​@@ajitsinghees7909w❤❤❤❤❤🎉🎉😢😮😊😊😊

    • @fayazshawl7877
      @fayazshawl7877 Рік тому

      Aswrwbkho
      Is co kahte hai andhe k haath mài lathie
      Failed state
      People are like baid bakriya
      Generals are puppets of usa
      La hawla Wala quwatah elah belah
      May Allah sbta guide this country people towards right path

    • @fayazshawl7877
      @fayazshawl7877 Рік тому

      Aswrwbkho
      Look past is history
      Things changed
      Now we have to see the mode of people
      Imran Khans idealogy has given new life to Pakistan
      Country can't survive without that
      So people shall come out and fight for the betterment of the country
      Pakistan shall not loose the leader like imran khan it is once give by god

  • @gurmailbath16
    @gurmailbath16 Рік тому +8

    Great discussion I am big fan dr sahib Love from California 🙏🙏🇺🇸🇺🇸

  • @pax10report
    @pax10report Рік тому +10

    delighted to see 3 intellectuals on the same platform ... best wishes from India

  • @shovasreepatnaik8462
    @shovasreepatnaik8462 Рік тому +4

    It is always a pleasure to listen to Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed sir. So genuine and so honest in his comment

  • @ilayatshah9079
    @ilayatshah9079 Рік тому +18

    Amazing thinkers. Thank you so much for educating our youth with truth

    • @personalpr3723
      @personalpr3723 Рік тому

      However very very few pakistani believe 5hie

    • @awaisahmed8095
      @awaisahmed8095 Рік тому

      O bhai ya kya batain ker rahay hain koi smej a rahi hai ya quaid azam kay hilaf kyon bol rahay hain jinhon nay PakistAn bnaya hai aur zia ul haq kay khilaf kya baqwas ker rahay hain us nay PakistAn aur afganistan ko bachaya hai koi sharam kero PakistAnis apni heros ki qader nahi kertay is liya aj ya haal hai

  • @educationismust109
    @educationismust109 Рік тому +8

    Very wise intellectual discussion. Highly recommended ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ worth listening 👍

  • @desiguy5508
    @desiguy5508 Рік тому +13

    Imagine if we didn't have wars and instead would have a competition with each other on economy, social status, etc.

  • @murarisharma9669
    @murarisharma9669 Рік тому +4

    I can hear this great old man all day long!!!
    Thought provoking discussion!!!

  • @santoshagarkar6760
    @santoshagarkar6760 Рік тому +141

    I m regular listener of black hole from Mumbai ( india ) i appreciate honest efforts from team black hole,
    In today's session i want to mentioned this thing that in other nation's the basic needs is as follows
    1) food
    2) shelter
    3) clothes
    4) religion
    But in Pakistan the basic needs is
    1) religion
    2) clothes
    3)shelter
    4) food
    Very pathetic mindset of elites 🤔

    • @krisgray1957
      @krisgray1957 Рік тому

      BJP has made India as HINDU pakistan. Do difference between India and Pakistan.

    • @annnilsson501
      @annnilsson501 Рік тому +2

      Very true 🙏

    • @gods-best-friend-gbf
      @gods-best-friend-gbf Рік тому +34

      I think it's more like:
      1) religion
      2) religion
      3) religion
      4) religion

    • @artigupta1632
      @artigupta1632 Рік тому

      Add internet 😎

    • @primordialarchetypes2927
      @primordialarchetypes2927 Рік тому

      @@gods-best-friend-gbf Yes, I know - same ol' ratta with both goondutva goondubabas and jihadiul barbadis......same daaku mentality

  • @kanaka7552
    @kanaka7552 Рік тому +12

    India has always stood it’s ground and refused to join any sides.And the fruits of such a stand are now being enjoyed by the present India and Inshallah more and more in the future.

  • @ShariqYousafai
    @ShariqYousafai Рік тому +5

    such gems in Pakistan make us more proud. an eye opening discussion. much appreciations for THE BLACK HOLE team.

    • @awaisahmed8095
      @awaisahmed8095 Рік тому

      O bhai ya kya batain ker rahay hain koi smej a rahi hai ya quaid azam kay hilaf kyon bol rahay hain jinhon nay PakistAn bnaya hai aur zia ul haq kay khilaf kya baqwas ker rahay hain us nay PakistAn aur afganistan ko bachaya hai koi sharam kero PakistAnis apni heros ki qader nahi kertay is liya aj ya haal hai

  • @rossgolla876
    @rossgolla876 Рік тому +10

    Taking all the resources and majority foreign revenue from East Bengal but invested in Pakistan and systematically made East Bengal as 2nd poorest part in the entire world and calling east Bengal as basket of begging before 1971, it is nonsense mindset of Pakistan. It's a misconception of Pakistani people that bengal has no cotton but Bengal was textile hub in whole Indian subcontinent before British colonial mindset came.

  • @roopmukherjee3006
    @roopmukherjee3006 Рік тому +7

    "We are a lost tribe" -Ishtiyaq Ahmed shaab... This is the jist of the confession in this debate..

  • @leaderofmass
    @leaderofmass Рік тому +17

    as a indian listening to these intellectuals is always treat..
    these r few voices from pakistan which r really needed for growth in this region

    • @piyushdas079
      @piyushdas079 Рік тому +1

      The sane voices are a very tiny minority

  • @geetasar271
    @geetasar271 Рік тому +9

    I am here only for Dr. Ishtiyaq 👍🇮🇳

  • @ManishKumar-fg4iy
    @ManishKumar-fg4iy Рік тому +11

    Hello Sir.. If anytime legends like sir dr ishtiaq Ahmed visit to your stage. Please do tell us in a little advance also.. Or u can give a upcoming guest list for at least next one week.. And try to make one folder related to viewers questions.... U can select questions according to the subject requirements.. And then ask them there with respected guest.. It's not a compulsion.. Is just a suggestion only.. I understand the black hole things is in early stage.. But for future purpose take this into your account and in memory too.. Thank you for the show.. Really liked yesterday video of Dr ishtiaq sir.

  • @pulkitkanodia3976
    @pulkitkanodia3976 Рік тому +317

    To my Pakistani friends see in comments How much we Indians appreciate talent..even when it is born in Pakistan.. irrespective of religion or nationality..

    • @jamshedshaikh4619
      @jamshedshaikh4619 Рік тому

      We know where you coming from.You cannot fool us.Get off your high horse of self righteous .You guys a bunch of bigots and it shows.

    • @frontiernomad8765
      @frontiernomad8765 Рік тому +17

      Mostly when it's critical of Pakistan lol just kidding

    • @percentbigfoot
      @percentbigfoot Рік тому +34

      @@frontiernomad8765 Naah, we call spade a spade in general but the good thing is that pakistan has been on the wrong end which makes our critics job easy lol

    • @exposedman7753
      @exposedman7753 Рік тому

      Madaar chot pehele apna desh ka extremist ko sambhal..aaaya gyan phelne

    • @navneet8269
      @navneet8269 Рік тому +2

      Hamare har Dil Aziz doctor Muhammad doctor Pervez hoodbhoy Dr Nasir Mehmood mein Ludhiana Punjab se aapko sun raha hun yah duniya ki behtarin conversation mein se ek hai Mai FIR bad mein is per comment karunga edit karke shukriya in Aaj Kai dinon ke bad eyes edit kar raha hun

  • @annnilsson501
    @annnilsson501 Рік тому +4

    Have Never seen disscussion on such a high level in Pakistan 🇵🇰 this gives some HOPE for the future of Pakistan people 🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰

  • @BM-ym5ik
    @BM-ym5ik Рік тому +7

    Excellent analysis and study of the ills that confront Pakistani society. Excellent minds and analytical thought. We need more of this so thst the direction Pakistan is going in can be amended.

  • @mohsinafzaal7159
    @mohsinafzaal7159 Рік тому +22

    Awesome discussion ❤️

    • @awaisahmed8095
      @awaisahmed8095 Рік тому

      O bhai ya kya batain ker rahay hain koi smej a rahi hai ya quaid azam kay hilaf kyon bol rahay hain jinhon nay PakistAn bnaya hai aur zia ul haq kay khilaf kya baqwas ker rahay hain us nay PakistAn aur afganistan ko bachaya hai koi sharam kero PakistAnis apni heros ki qader nahi kertay is liya aj ya haal hai

    • @basharathussain7212
      @basharathussain7212 5 місяців тому

      Real hero’s of Pakistan: land lords and corrupt army

  • @rranjan3439
    @rranjan3439 Рік тому +16

    A very good discussion by the wonderful panelists especially Ishtiaq Ahmed Sir !
    Academic discussion of history and politics of the Subcontinent, Objective analysis as far as possible.
    Many lessons for a sensible listener from either side of the border for introspection and working towards peace and prosperity of the region.
    Rootless , identity crisis, denial of reality, absence of rationalism, not learning from own mistakes, ruling by self-centered elite class, distorted sense of Supremacy and above all religious fanaticism have driven Pakistan into this Sorry state.
    Self destructive obsession with Kashmir and making this obsession as the prime agenda to capture power both by civil and military establishment have only habdicapped the country and the process is still on.
    "Neither a democracy nor an autocratic regime..what should be the right term for the country ?"- I often wondered until I came across the terms like "Security State", "Garrison State" etc...still I doubt if these names can justify the regime of Pakistan.
    Standing on one of the most ancient civilizations-IVC, the Pakistanis identify and glorify themselves with the invaders;
    Superb Geographical location, Sitting over vast fertile land and irrigated by perennial Himalayan rivers ...the people of the country are struggling for Petrol/diesel and Wheat. Irony... it happens only in Pakistan.

  • @deepster8731
    @deepster8731 Рік тому +14

    was always wanting Dr. Ishtiaq to be on this platform and it came true ; such an insightful discussion

    • @minerjopeace5915
      @minerjopeace5915 Рік тому +2

      He is in Pakistan till mid March23. And coming to India Maharashtra in May 23

  • @dhaumyaranjansarangi8555
    @dhaumyaranjansarangi8555 Рік тому +10

    Very glad see this kind of discussion, learned so much thing about Pakistan internal thought, idea and politics.
    This is only possible because of the education, so that people don't get blind by religion and cheap politics (on both the side).
    Hope we leave everything past...🇮🇳

  • @hemkeshwani1378
    @hemkeshwani1378 Рік тому +7

    Please open questions from UA-cam viewers later on in the program. Thank you Parvezbhai !

  • @rakadus
    @rakadus Рік тому +6

    Nearly a two hour discussion without figuring out a way to exit from the "garrison".

  • @mayankumar1312
    @mayankumar1312 Рік тому +14

    Kudos to the person Who drew the topic of discussion on the board... GREAT JOB MAN

    • @mtsardar
      @mtsardar Рік тому

      We have habit of sweeping 🧹 issues under the carpet

  • @dinabandhumudi46
    @dinabandhumudi46 Рік тому +4

    What a knowledge conversation!!
    Love from India.

    • @primordialarchetypes2927
      @primordialarchetypes2927 Рік тому

      *What an informative discussion!!.............no such thing as a 'knowledge conversation'

  • @NevilleRamdeholl
    @NevilleRamdeholl Рік тому +18

    Its fascinating and strange isn't it, that Pakistan is NOW awakening to Democracy since 1947 and look at India , its a world power from its journey together with Pakistan since that time.

    • @DevKulkarni
      @DevKulkarni Рік тому +8

      In some ways, we have been very lucky honestly. We were lucky that Gandhi was better at dividing power within congress and beyond. We are lucky that the narrative of non-violence is very strong thanks to him. We were lucky that our constituent assembly was so varied that it was impossible to be dominated by one person, group or ideology. We were lucky that we had a people with social justice in mind like BR Ambedkar for drafting our constitution. We were lucky that Nehru was secular. We were lucky that socialism was rejected in 91. We are lucky that Pakistan messed up and that resulted in Bangladesh being a separate country. We are also lucky that inward-looking institution builders existed not just withing the government but also in civil society (like RSS and others), which enabled them build a real competitive politics. We are lucky that our army is completely under civilian control. We are lucky that social justice movements like bhudaan weren't crushed by the feudal-minded elites backed by the army.

    • @WisdomBuds
      @WisdomBuds Рік тому

      Sir, We Indian have suffered too much but never compromise against our values but invested and aligned with excellence. Now, its reflected but just started....our journey to reclaim our pie.

  • @ishtiaqniazi9950
    @ishtiaqniazi9950 Рік тому +7

    Honest analysis really appreciate

  • @shoaibkahut
    @shoaibkahut Рік тому +23

    Great to see three thought leaders in conversation of paramount importance. Just by discussion critically we can move forward. There are lessons in history which need to be learned. Lovely to see so many 🇮🇳 Indian friends commenting here . Let's hope someday we can live as peaceful neighbors. Pakistan 🇵🇰 is near to default now and can't afford any misadventure in its backyard. We should learn from #poverty reduction measures of #China 🇨🇳 and focus on making the life of our people good.

    • @ShyamKumar-zb2mw
      @ShyamKumar-zb2mw Рік тому +9

      Shoaib saab - IN has moved much forward in the direction of making life better for its people - but a lot still remains to be done. Read recent article in Tribune by Vice-Air Marshal Shezad Chaudhary and in the article in News International by Musharaff Zaidi. To a large extent - PK's hostile intentions have been neutralized by IN's economic rise and by economic collapse of PK. Most in IN believe that PK's ill intent is still there - just that the capability is absent. Many say that if the economic conditions were reversed - PK would have already invaded IN a long time ago. 🙂 This means that for IN - PK will always remain untrustworthy. PK cozing up to China also leads to IN's fears that PK will be forced to play China's proxy. 🙂 One thing that will help address this if PK somehow liquidates or extrdiates to IN its "startegic assets" like Hafeez Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, Masood Azar and their ilk. That could signal a change of heart in PK - but that seems very unlikely that it will happen. IN can easily traverse into its future by ignoring PK - like it has for the last 20-30 years. Can PK do the same?

    • @DWAGON1818
      @DWAGON1818 Рік тому +1

      What can you learn from Hoodbhoy?

    • @DWAGON1818
      @DWAGON1818 Рік тому

      @Ex Dhimmi you will die with this dream of yours. Just like people before you did. There will never be an end to Muslim supremacism.

    • @vinsin328
      @vinsin328 Рік тому

      China is a Secular country, whereas India is a Muslim appeasement or religious/dharma appeasement state. There cannot be any parallel. No two nation can ever be compared.

    • @lol8q
      @lol8q Рік тому

      why there is cut around answer gazwa e hind??
      😂

  • @murtazakhan3802
    @murtazakhan3802 11 місяців тому

    A scared Dr. Ishtiyaq evades the first question but as he moved on, he unfolded the events exposing the army. Good work..

  • @villagelifeblog297
    @villagelifeblog297 Рік тому +3

    I think dr. Nazir is more rational and practical sight and istiaq is more academic here and parvez sir is calm with disappointment mind with pak situation. Love u frm 🇮🇳

  • @sapiens4168
    @sapiens4168 Рік тому +2

    Wow! That's a Great discussion. Hats off to all the three professors. 👏👏👏👏

  • @karamveermaan
    @karamveermaan Рік тому +4

    Brilliant people of pakistan in one show. Big fan of istiyaq sir and hudbhoy sir. We respect you lot 🙏sir from bharat.

  • @orangelays5084
    @orangelays5084 Рік тому +1

    Much respect from India -What a wonderfully enlightening discussion- enjoyed it a lot and there was much to learn -

  • @WisdomBuds
    @WisdomBuds Рік тому +3

    We Indian have great regard for this honest man.......

  • @Rizwan-Ali
    @Rizwan-Ali Рік тому +3

    Despite not agreeing with his "best mind sit together" suggestion, his talks make a lot of sense.

  • @somnathde8680
    @somnathde8680 Рік тому +3

    Thanks to the organiser of Black Hole from India.
    Great discussion. A lot of learning.🙏

  • @innocentadvocate4909
    @innocentadvocate4909 Рік тому +1

    Dr. Ishtiq Ahmed And Syed Muzamil is a woke personality in Pakistan.
    Specially i dont know more Pakistani woke person but the two person Dr. Ishtiq ahmed and Syed muzamil are a great.
    I thought in Pakistan only military decide everything like politics, economy, education, business, foreign exchange, foreign policy, industry etc etc, no any one oppose Pakistan military policy. After i watch Dr. Ishtiq and Syed Muzamil i think about they are more woke for others.
    Good job both of you.

  • @Gappasappa
    @Gappasappa Рік тому +15

    This debate will be loved by people across 🇮🇳 and 🇵🇰. Lovely to see Jinnah being considered a psychopath than the father of the nation.

    • @pradeepchauhan7769
      @pradeepchauhan7769 Рік тому

      This great discussion is listened with rapt attention in India.
      Do you really believe that madarsachhaap paxtanis can understand even a word of this discussion ?
      HATE INDIA is the ONLY glue that keeps this STATE OF MIND together howsoever battered and tattered their ACTUAL condition may be.

  • @sandindia
    @sandindia Рік тому +2

    Excellent forum, I will recommend starting a chapter in New Delhi, also several other cities in the West where both Pakistanis and Indians live together.

    • @arifsaleem5467
      @arifsaleem5467 Рік тому

      This is a great idea, they will also have more freedom to speak.

  • @kaalpaheliya
    @kaalpaheliya Рік тому +2

    Gazwa-e-Hind is not a fabricated but a central doctron to Islam. There are many Hadith which says about Gazwa-e-Hind. Few reference I am sharing: Sunan an-Nasa'i 3175, Sunan an-Nasa'i 1:25:3175

  • @arvindsharma7080
    @arvindsharma7080 Рік тому +1

    Its a pleasure to listen to Dr Parvez and Ishtiaq saab

  • @sudhanshujha1325
    @sudhanshujha1325 Рік тому +6

    Nice discussion love from India ❤️❤️❤️

  • @AnshulChauhan95
    @AnshulChauhan95 Рік тому +1

    It took me two days to finish this 2 hours long discussion, but it was worth it.

  • @aq-study3214
    @aq-study3214 Рік тому +3

    What an insightful discussion !!

  • @mischefman2004
    @mischefman2004 Рік тому +2

    Tu hindu banega na musalman banega …insaan ki aulaad tu Insaan Banega….India isi pe believe karta hain and tabhi sabko opportunity deta hain…we have so many people in Muslim community serving us at top places and contributing towards this idea.

  • @dholkapol617
    @dholkapol617 Рік тому +8

    Excellent point by Dr. Naazir Mahmud at .40 hr of this clip. Dr. Ishtiaq and Hoodbhoy are very learned people but they were too generous in admiring Jinnah's foresight, which Jinnah didn't have. What Jinnah said to a foreign reporter means nothing in comparison to his over all shortsightedness If this so-called great leader had a foresight, why he couldn't see the genocide of Punjab, likely break up of his Pakistan that happened in 1971, and turmoil of present day Pakistan. Many of Jinnah's contemporaries had predicted all these events but most likely he couldn't.

  • @gladiator1186
    @gladiator1186 Рік тому +2

    One of finest discussion i ever heard of.

  • @uzmaansari7
    @uzmaansari7 Рік тому +18

    There's another book with a similar title, The Garrison State written by Prof. Tai Tan Yong and published in 2005. That book is entirely about how the Punjab was a Garrison State for British colonists, and the militarisation of the Punjab had far reaching consequences for South Asia even after partition.

    • @ViewsNewsChannel
      @ViewsNewsChannel Рік тому

      Know Jinnah, Gandhi, and the British Partnership which led to the Partition of India
      ua-cam.com/video/iPO99tofR5s/v-deo.html
      ua-cam.com/video/L59B0amqJS0/v-deo.html

  • @sharjeeljawaid
    @sharjeeljawaid Рік тому +2

    Absolutely correct on Maj Gen Iskander Mirza.

  • @saeeddeen7304
    @saeeddeen7304 Рік тому +4

    Special thanks to Pervaiz Hoodbhoy for inviting Dr Ishtiaq sahib.

  • @saith-waqas-ali
    @saith-waqas-ali Рік тому

    Pakistan really need these kinds of discussions. It is very good that many participants of this meeting are asking very good and thinkable questions.

  • @Prof_UpitSultan
    @Prof_UpitSultan Рік тому +6

    Biggest take away is that Pakistan is “ungovernable” since the last 6 decades. And it is very evident from the way no democratically elected Government completed its term.

  • @vivektripathi8615
    @vivektripathi8615 Рік тому +2

    Thanks and love from bharat for this beautiful and balanced discussion

  • @harinagarajan2296
    @harinagarajan2296 Рік тому

    One of the most remarkable discussions. The audience poses quite a few excellent questions. Many thanks for this post. Hari

  • @thomashunter5645
    @thomashunter5645 Рік тому +10

    I see very few Pakistanis leave comment here. This shows a lack of interest in their history. I see a lot of Indian people here. I guess it is the level of education.

    • @subhasisghosh66
      @subhasisghosh66 Рік тому

      Lack of secular education in Pakistan, coupled with Islamic indoctrination

    • @sibtainsonglistzafar1298
      @sibtainsonglistzafar1298 10 місяців тому +1

      I'm a Pakistani and I'm listening Ishitiaq sahab for many years, and when i saw the title of this video i was assure that many indians will leave their comments.

    • @gopalramanathan7062
      @gopalramanathan7062 6 місяців тому +1

      And even amongst the audience though they wondered about dire situation of Papisthan it is significant that none suggested that the solution could be reunification with India 🇮🇳

    • @Wanderer975
      @Wanderer975 4 місяці тому

      ​@@gopalramanathan7062 😂
      Solution is reunification with india?
      How is that a Solution?
      You have not given political rights to kashmiris and you talk about reunification.
      Seriously!
      You have no idea of politics.

    • @gopalramanathan7062
      @gopalramanathan7062 4 місяці тому

      @@Wanderer975 You have given political rights to none in Papisthan and that is why you are on your way to disintegration 🤡

  • @pittsburghpatrika1534
    @pittsburghpatrika1534 Рік тому +1

    I do understand the dislike , if not hatred for Dr Hoodbhoy and Dr Ahmed. But then, one’s personal like or dislike should not overshadow one’s objectivity.

  • @mohsinafzaal7159
    @mohsinafzaal7159 Рік тому +45

    Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed Sahib, please also have a discussion on your book Jinnah his successes failures and role in history? I will appreciate that Sir 😊

    • @TheUndergroundRockstar
      @TheUndergroundRockstar Рік тому +5

      It's already announced and going to take place today (1st Feb).

    • @mohsinafzaal7159
      @mohsinafzaal7159 Рік тому +1

      @@TheUndergroundRockstar awesome 👏 thanks for letting me know 🙏

    • @annnilsson501
      @annnilsson501 Рік тому

      Mohsin Plz listen to What Ishtiaq Ahmed is telling… Every Word he is speaking is the real TRUTH & the Only way to progress of Pakistan people towards prosparity 🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰

    • @mohsinafzaal7159
      @mohsinafzaal7159 Рік тому +1

      @@annnilsson501 yes! I have watched all his videos and I agree with him including his idea of solution for Kashmir problem…..

    • @mohsinafzaal7159
      @mohsinafzaal7159 Рік тому

      @DIVYANSH SAHU I did…. 🙏

  • @farhaad1807
    @farhaad1807 Рік тому +1

    What a beautiful discussion it was. Though anyone can disagree with them. I wish we had such a discussion on tv channels

    • @awaisahmed8095
      @awaisahmed8095 Рік тому

      O bhai ya kya batain ker rahay hain koi smej a rahi hai ya quaid azam kay hilaf kyon bol rahay hain jinhon nay PakistAn bnaya hai aur zia ul haq kay khilaf kya baqwas ker rahay hain us nay PakistAn aur afganistan ko bachaya hai koi sharam kero PakistAnis apni heros ki qader nahi kertay is liya aj ya haal hai

  • @arslannaseer7164
    @arslannaseer7164 Рік тому +3

    Ishtiaq sb the great! ❤️
    Love you sir

  • @rasikgoswami7186
    @rasikgoswami7186 Рік тому

    I think Dr. Istiaq is quite a learned and honest analyst. Pleasure to watsh dignified people of Pakistan. Hope more and more people come out and try to know the FACTS.

  • @MuhammadAwais-ul7cf
    @MuhammadAwais-ul7cf Рік тому +3

    Incredible discussion

  • @mazharlakho4618
    @mazharlakho4618 9 місяців тому +1

    Not once was mentioned that the immediate solution for getting out of the current crisis was getting army out of politics and cutting the Defence Budget to 1/50 of its present size.

  • @shamsharma4991
    @shamsharma4991 Рік тому +3

    Great discussion of greatest person

  • @ashfaqminhas5388
    @ashfaqminhas5388 Рік тому

    ماشاللہ بہت پیارا دل ودماغ کھول دینے والا پروگرام ھے اللہ تعالی ماجد بھائی کو عمر دراز کرے عمران ریاض ارشد شریف کی طرح ملک کو سچے عاشق ہیں جو سچائی بولنے والے کو اللہ تعالی کی طرف سے رحمت ھو

  • @krishnanr2772
    @krishnanr2772 Рік тому +3

    Such interactions is a must see for all Pakistanis. This will help them to come out of the illusion in which they live

    • @kalidasswaminathan4341
      @kalidasswaminathan4341 Рік тому

      Must for many Indians too, to learn where we could be headed.

    • @raghunandan9290
      @raghunandan9290 Рік тому

      ​@@kalidasswaminathan4341
      We won't be headed towards Pakistan.
      Its NOT in our blood history etc .

  • @yt_bharat
    @yt_bharat Рік тому +2

    As an Indian, i am simply impressed by the wonderful insights by the esteemed panelists. Really love this channel. Keep it up.

  • @bmniac
    @bmniac Рік тому +80

    Majoritarian vs minoritarian? If Nehru was secular why not a uniform civil code? Why were Hindu temples taken over and run by Government and their funds misused? Mosques and churches were left untouched! Minorities were allowed their schools by right not so the majority. The list is endless. There is a lot about India to be learnt by these scholars.

    • @nishantsharma7832
      @nishantsharma7832 Рік тому

      Kuch v aake pel do...Abe Ram mandir trust alag body hai koi govt. Body ni

    • @dev1089
      @dev1089 Рік тому

      NEHRU PROMOTED MUSLIM APPEASEMENT SO THAT THEY WERE USED AS VOTE BANK TO REMAIN IN POWER PERPETUALLY, SECULARISM WAS USED TO DECIVE HINDUS WHO WERE LIBERAL AND BROAD MINDED. I FULLY ENDORSE YOUR VIEWS

    • @Sayyah_shad_
      @Sayyah_shad_ Рік тому

      The Right Wing will remain the Right Wing, the wrongest wing one can imagine

    • @jpsharma2517
      @jpsharma2517 Рік тому +8

      True. Nehru jee wanted to show that he was great secularist and appreciated world wide but Inspite of that india face attack by Pakistan in 1948 and by China in 1962. He was not pragmatic but idealist and hankered for international appreciation so he made all these mistakes

    • @wanderingnomad1
      @wanderingnomad1 Рік тому

      Grab hold of ur lingam and be a man.

  • @getevennow
    @getevennow Рік тому +2

    “ No country has benefitted from continuous war “ - Sun Tsu

  • @jaisinghpunia3078
    @jaisinghpunia3078 Рік тому +3

    Very good analysis really unbiased.

  • @somnathn553
    @somnathn553 Рік тому +1

    Dr. sab explanation is simply superb. Very practical.

  • @shabbirahmeddar7765
    @shabbirahmeddar7765 Рік тому +2

    Very thought provoking discussion.

  • @HotelGoldenTree
    @HotelGoldenTree Рік тому +3

    Soul searching effort. 🙏
    Besides few i don't think mass Pakistanis will accept these bitter truth.
    As an Indian i would like to be Pakistan as one state, if God forbids it disintegrate, we have to face multiple Pakistan 😀

  • @Jvs-eq3iy
    @Jvs-eq3iy Рік тому +2

    Some of the best minds of Pakistan arguing most courteously. Very educative.

  • @unknownindian6531
    @unknownindian6531 Рік тому +7

    One thing Pakistanis like to ignore is that the brief period of progress enjoyed by Pakistan was largely due to contribution of erstwhile E Pak

  • @agrippa-theskeptic9346
    @agrippa-theskeptic9346 Рік тому +2

    Amazing.
    So little interest in such an interesting & important topic in the capital city!

  • @sanasama2209
    @sanasama2209 Рік тому +3

    Extremely insightful

  • @cliptyclop101
    @cliptyclop101 Рік тому +2

    How’s Pakistan’s formation relatable to Israel? How exactly? Are we settlers in Pakistan came from somewhere else or we and our ancestors lived in these lands for hundred and thousands of years? I know there was a bloodshed which shouldn’t have had happened. But how is this related to Israel? I’m failed to understand

  • @somesshbahuguna9620
    @somesshbahuguna9620 Рік тому +2

    I am pleasantly surprised to find that there are serious thinkers in Pakistan. Unfortunately, their voice doesn't matter there.

  • @prabhatdarbari9913
    @prabhatdarbari9913 Рік тому +3

    Sensible discussion 👍
    Introspection is very necessary for the future progress which we find in pakistan very rarely , today
    Pakistan is in a very pethetic position, people must ask and make responsible their army and politicians for their wrong doings

  • @SunilSharma-cw4qp
    @SunilSharma-cw4qp Рік тому +1

    Loved it thoroughly enjoyed 🙂☺️.
    Indian Pakistan watcher.

  • @mohsinafzaal7159
    @mohsinafzaal7159 Рік тому +7

    The Black Hole is doing an amazing job 👏👏👏

  • @dilbagsingh6406
    @dilbagsingh6406 Рік тому

    Very good pragmatic discussion by great great Sir Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed

  • @captsudarshan
    @captsudarshan Рік тому +7

    Dr. Parvez ji,
    Thanks for bringing eminent person like Ishtiak Ahmad ji. I respect him a lot.
    I feel groups like Black Hole must be more and more all over Pakistan. Pakistan can survive by changing the mindset as has been discussed here.