Vinland Saga and Living in Berserk's Shadow
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2019
- Re-Uploaded from Old Channel! More old videos and new videos coming soon. In this one we discuss Vinland Saga and the struggles and the unfairness of it always getting compared to Berserk for very surface level reasons!
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Another of the Re-Uploads. Tomorrow some Attack on Titan Meta shit!
I think Vinland Saga is much more like Vagabond than Berserk
Yeahh exactly!!
Oi Bruno
@@felipeladeira743 Oi mito
@One Vagabond
golden age arc?(except eclipse, of course)
Is anyone arguing that they're THAT similar or are people simply saying "if you're after another epic long form story in a western inspired setting with great art you'll probably enjoy Vinland Saga"
It's probably People who read the Prologue. So many coincidences. From Askeladd / Griffith Dislocating Thorfinn / Guts' arm to keep him working for him in a duel. To the first person he fights and gets real recognition is from Thorkell / Bazuso the giant with an Axe who has been keeping the entirety of the Army at Bay, to running away with arrows in him and having to kill dogs / wolves. Adonis. Hassan, and Julius having the same character designs and relationships as Canute, Ragnar, and King Sweyn. Canute turning into Griffith post resurrection. A mix of similar imagery and plot threads. But after the prologue, one remains the same story with the main character subtly changing himself, and one becomes Tea Drinker adventures, the lessons of kindness and etiquette that I learned from being a fuckin' slave.
Damn right buddy. It's a bit strawman to suggest people think they are THAT similar
Agreed!
Wait Canute is the antagonist in Vinland Saga? I think the manga made it clear that Canute isn't actually Thorfinn's enemy. Canute even said that they both strive for the same goals albeit travelling a completely different path. Vinland Saga has no defined antagonist although there are indeed antagonist in each arc.
Also, I always recommend Vinland Saga and Vagabond to Berserk fan because they have the same 'weight' in their story; they all are heavy and contemplative.
Technically Thorkell is the closest thing to an antagonist in the series. He serves primarily as both comedic relief and a power cap for the characters, but his existence is an active denial of what the story's core values are. Thorkell loves fighting and killing, there's been no indication that he even cares about going to Valhalla, even if he knew Valhalla didn't exist, he would likely revel in the act of war anyway.
@@cokecan6169 Technically after Askelad's death there are no villains in VS, Askelad himself denied this role as a character because he is another person who was shaped by this world, not justifying what he he did of course, but he is one of the bad guys among so many wolves.
The antagonist of vinland saga is the conception of war itself
@@giulyanoviniciussanssilva2947 Floki and Sven are the antagonists of the story
There is no antagonist in vinland saga cuz thorfinn doesn't have enemies
As dumb as the comparison is, it did lead many who eventually understood Vinland Saga's themes to begin reading it in the first place, so hey, take the good with the bad.
I know as a story, Berserk is better written, but I just love Vinland Saga more currently. And even if you look objectively, they are the closest to each other. The reason I love VS so much is one word, “Askeladd”.
As a story Berserk is far more stagnant. Vinland saga introduces many conflicts and events than Berserk...
I think the story of Berserk is a big dependency, there are moments that you disbelieve in the analogies, themes and events, which he makes you witness and building great characters and sometimes he writes like a beginner when he remembers that he is a mangaka and reduces Puck to simple comic relief I get frustrated
@@Aot viland saga is stagnat because it preaches budhism
Vinland saga pretty ass lol no
Great video i have always liked Berserk and wanted to find something close, thanks to you i now have a manga to read that is difrent from Berserk but still very good.
Perfect video.
This is a great video that deserves more attention. Also, if you liked Vinland Saga's farm arc then there's a good chance you'll love a lot of what Vagabond has to offer so hopefully you get around to reading it sometime.
But will vagabond ever finish
@@akaashikrish3834 nah The author hasn't made A chapter since 2015 people are saying its cancelled at this point.
I like Berserk I didn't think it was a masterpiece, but I was delighted and inspired by this work to one day be as dedicated as the author.
But after so many chapters of Vinland Saga I knew I liked it better than Miura's eponymous work, but for reasons of taste because it's a joke to compare works that are so different just because they have swords and take place in an ancient time, the comparison between Miura, Inoue and Yukimura, for me it's just people who looks for nitpicking and wants to compare everything and classify things, in my opinion this weakens a community that only focuses on the popular and fosters the same discussions and themes in the community.
Berserk not for kids
Coming back to this video, I'm surprised by how much I disagree with your Berserk take in Part 2 about the deaths of the soldiers on the battlefield not being portrayed as a bad thing. Medieval warfare in Berserk absolutely does NOT gloss over the horror of war for the average soldier, nor does it "expect the audience to understand that war is bad". In fact, it portrays war as mundane in the golden age so that Miura can turn it on its head later. The idea of soldiers on the battlefield dying meaninglessly for their feudal lords or for a "single piece of silver" is set up right from the get go in Griffith's monologue in the flashback during the Black Swordsman arc, introducing the idea that those who die in Doldrey and the Midland/Tudor armies have done so meaninglessly and avoidably, for material need or contractual service to their feudal lord, only meeting that fate due to the exploitative nature of Golden Age Berserk's political systems.
Berserk even uses the same trick as Vinland Saga to highlight audience hypocrisy, albeit in a more meta and interesting way. The eclipse is a symbolic representation of the coercive nature of the battlefield to a magnified extreme, and fan outrage and horror at the deaths of those in the Eclipse having died at the hands of their commander with no control over it is a great encapsulation of audience hypocrisy in that they have normalized and been so desensitized to the coercive nature of medieval warfare that they don't see how that is unconsensual and horrific, but are terrified by the slaughter of the characters they care about because there's scary red imagery, phallic monsters and Lovecraftian hellscapes that go on forever with no escape. It just doesn't scream it in your face like Vinland Saga does so people don't pick up on it, until they start trying to justify medieval warfare to somehow argue that Griffith's sacrifice was inherently different and uniquely evil.
Stop watching old videos, also we'll be live in about half an hour or so reacting to your video if you wanna stop by...
@@KyleEntertainment cool cool, I'll be there.
war is horror trope is boring and besides berserk didn't just showed war as horror but also as glory and heroism
You called it, I started reading Vinland saga immediately after I finished the berserk manga
Honestly, I prefer Vinland saga.
WTF DID YOU SAY?? Nah jk everyone is entitled to their own opinion
Same, also prefer Vagabond over Berserk
Ofc bcuz u didn’t read manga
@@obsidie1122 Read Berserk like 5 times over. Vinland Saga is better.
@@richurro20 hxh>naruto
i feel the brutalism and realism of vinland saga is more enjoyable than berserk
Dude i didnt even see canute as griffith 😂
me neither
Canute's philosophy on love as discrimination is as deep as Griffith as a character in my honest opinion. Canute even stands out in the story of Vinland Saga as it is now with him sinking deeper into what it means.
But it doesnt make them similar
I just saw the anime. It was mostly his early princess appearance and also the political schemes and willing to kill his family for power. And then attempted to sieze land of loyal supporters.
Berserk is back and it’s dope. Fuck all other stories
Both? Both. Both is good.
For much that i like Berserk, i think Vinland Saga is better. Not only bc of his story and character development, i find that the author likes his own work and loves it more than Berserk author, your can see in the last chapters that have been published in the last 3 years, it's like Miura it'sjust bored, and sincerely, i can emphatize with the feeling. Iguess it can be tiring to write and draw the same story for more than 10 years, you can see that in the hiatus the author takes.
Oh
damn that made psychological scene
U gotta love the godfather theme
you know hes inteligent, hes playing the godfather
character some similarities, theme some what similar, values a little bit different i guess hopefully im right
Why are they even compared to each other
The video literally explains why..
@@RikXtreme4 and that explenation is shit
I wish I had seen this video before reading Vinland saga. I also read Vinland saga 2 years before you made this video so that would have been really hard. I read Vinland saga right after berserk and 100% just fell into the trap of oh let me google similar manga to berserk and just read that. It ended up ruining my experience of Vinland saga since when I got to the farm arc I became bored af with what was going on and thought the story fell flat and dropped the series. I went in expecting a completely different story and this terrible comparison people make between the two series really does Vinland saga a disservice
After finishing Berserk (which totally blew me away, even though the second half wasn't as good as the first half), I read a few other mangas beforing going into Vinland. Luckily I it wasn't presented to me as "identical to Berserk" so I initially went in with an open mind, a few months before the anime started airing. Unfortunately though, I was confused by the Berserk parallels in the prologue and missed the point on key elements and it was frustrating until the end of the Prologue.
(Spoilers ahead!) I was seeing Askeladd as an expansion of Gambino's character, with key differences but still mainly that, I was massively annoyed by Canute's "instant chad boost" nearing the end of the arc, as if he needed to quickly transition to Vinland's proto Griffith and "get his kingdom". I most probably fundamentally misunderstood other scenes with Thorfinn in the prologue... and then the anime happened to further increase my frustration with Vinland Saga.
So... that's my history. I hope in the future I can revaluate the series and understand what it was going for.
I think the prologue is probably better the second time, knowing where it goes, but I think that about literally everything. Also, the second half of Berserk is definitely better.
@@KyleEntertainment I definitely don't consider the second half of Berserk bad as some do, but it felt like... it was going a bit slower, and for some reason didn't feel as compelling in the long run as it was in its early days.
I should most probably reread it as well (only read it once, in merely 3 weeks, almost one and a half years ago) so my memory is also getting a bit weaker. You know, I've never read a manga twice and I've always tried to read more stuff but right now going back to some good stuff doesn't sound that bad.
@@josiahstoehr1297 I've read Berserk 3 or 4 times, but I feel depending on who your favourite character is, decides which half of Berserk you like the most.
Guts all the way! I never felt so much empathy for a fictional character before.
I think I prefer the first half because of how the Golden Age is such impossibly perfect in every aspect I can imagine. I'm kinda bothered by some secondary characters in the second half being so underdeveloped after many chapters (Isidro, Isma and to some extent, Serpico) and how some arcs take so much time to reach a conclusion, compared to the excellent pacing of the early arcs.
@@josiahstoehr1297 Yeah see it tends to be if you like Guts and Griffith more you like the first half and people like me who like Casca and Farnese more you like the second-half. I'm also a massive Isidro defender and the only person from the new crew that I'm not a fan of is Serpico, who I think is boring.
*Blade of the Immortal,* that is at the same time action packed, has character development, moral dilemmas, most solid ending, no cartoon comedy, no fillerish characters or arcs...:
"First time?💀"
Music at around 6:00?
its from the 90s berserk anime, I think the outro?
@@georgemichaelis1664 Listening back to it, I think it's the Aot S2 ed.
Bit late to comment but for me personally i love berserk is because it doesn't try to romaticise violence yet at the same time accepts it as a part of life. The medieval era is cruel and those within it have to be cruel sometimes to survive. It sort of transcends morality a bit because it's a case of fight and die and nothing else. It's simplistic but it's true to life how situations sometimes can only be resolved with violence. The players involved have so much to lose or gain that a discussion on morality is irrelevent, it's all or nothing in these societies and if you hold yourself back than you can easily find yourself killed. It's why i don't really like vineland saga anymore. It's message of pascifism is becoming increasingly direct and it's costing the story by making some of the character choices bizarre. That crossbow girl is the biggest example. Why didn't she kill thorfinn? Why does she give a fuck what his friends say? This guy killed her whole family and now she has a chance to get revenge and she's swayed by the words of people she's only met. It's just ridiculous and the only reason why it is there is enforce thorfinn's no kill rule. It's just stupid. Another one is with the jomsvikings guys. You can accept thorfinn trying not to fight and kill people but when your in a pitch battle and people are at you with swords your not gonna be thinking about morality or whatever your gonna be thinking about not dying. It's just absurd how violence under no circumstances is ever justified, even when there is no other recourse.
But violence is still used in Vinland Saga by Thorfinn purely for the sake of self defence and de-escalation which does work, what Thorfinn is against specifically is killing not just "no violence ever"
@@islandboy9381thanks for replying, violence as in no weapon combat is used by thorfinn to defend himself, but the people who are attacking him have weapons as they don't have the same level of skill as him. They need to use weapons which will most likely kill the people who they are used on. You see the problem with this, the message isn't violence isn't always nesceary but instead becomes you don't need to use lethal violence if your skilled enough. Thorfinn still uses violence he just doesn't kill people, that isn't pascifism. For a series that states violence isn't always the answer it sure as shit loves using it non-lethaly
My point was that the series is putting message of substance. It's absurd for thorfinn to pull his punches. It's fight or die morality is irrelevent when someone is trying to kill you. Now there are moments when thorfinn does actually use pascifism to get his way such as when he let those soldiers beat the shit out of him, that was great and powerful, but everything else is just jerking off the morality of not killing people in a time where that is absurd.
Is that cowboy bebop music i hear at 10:28 ?
Yes
Freddie Gibbs??? 8:52
name?
@@mklbz4877 It's called "Green Bird"
Do you think Vinland saga could pull a berserk level eclipse like sequence this far in the story
Different setting, different stakes.
But if you're talking about some kind of strong "emotional punch" like eclipse was, then perhaps we could get something similar in VS if Thorfinn's settlement in Vinland gets destroyed by the natives and everyone in his crew would be killed, including his wife.
But man... That would be one of the darkest moments among all manga series. Not sure we need it, though.
@@youarealwayscorrect Not sure if you count history as a spoiler but be aware:
If Yukimura continues to follow "history" Thorfinns settlement will fall because of war and Thorfinn will leave giving up on creating land of peace, after his return it is unknown what happened to him. It will be quite interesting to see how all his development for better is going to lead him to a failure and how he deals with it.
Have you read vagabond by now?
I have not.
Read it amazing storytelling its slow placed but ofcourse it gives you feels and emotional attachment to the story
@@KyleEntertainment update?
@@osmanm331 Still haven't
@@KyleEntertainment then why are you even comparing
Should I watch the anime.
Ye
No
@@rizanvou why do u say so?is the animation bad or something?
@@akaashikrish3834 animation is good. It’s worth watching
Watch the anime then read chapter 54 or 55 cuz thats where the anime leaves off at. or you can just read the manga.
wired
Letter from future.Berserk will return in april
Wtf
Letter from future's future. Berserk will return in june
Letter from july. It's back baby
@@user-sj2xr1hq8s 😭😭😭
Vagabond and Vinland saga are not even close to berserk
Berserk is the best manga,
Vagabond is the second.
I prefer Vagabond over Berserk and a few others as well. While Berserk is still in my top 5, I feel like it gets overhyped a bit. People act like it's the only manga that exists. Personally I'd say I enjoyed Vagabond, Vinland Saga, and Blade of the Immortal more than Berserk but Berserk is still a legendary manga in its own right and vastly more influential than any of those other series.
Vagabond > Berserk
@@rizanvou Attack on Titan >>>
@@hashslingingslasher3083 you're a dumb kid for thinking like that
@@hashslingingslasher3083 yeah so about that.... No way 😂
Vinland saga is better
incorrect
Kyle Entertainment ok I was wrong there is no good or bad just tastes
No, not even close.
@@burngrace5205 indeed
I agree with you.
The change in Vinland Saga is like watching a Kung Fu Epic, where half way through the main character doesn't want to fight anymore, and avoids it. It goes from remorseful action with war commentary, to soap opera with less action than a soap opera. I think it'd work better as a novel or book with no pictures than a manga or anime.
Well thorfinn knows all to well that the Vikings were trained at birth to wield the sword and also knowing the instance of where one of the people amongst the group he was leading almost resulted in violence when having a problem with one of the other people in the group and so knowing this thorfinn decides to forbid swords to be used while having axes and knives and spears to be used only for a last resort in defense because in the new chapter we would have clearly seen a potential outbreak or war if they acted on violence and this shows what thorfinn knows of the people hes leading and how he deals with the conflict with peace if possible
@@Drugon-Dag Right, it doesn't make it entertaining to read, but I do get it.
@@JKurayami even though theres not as much action as before which was really entertaining I think the storytelling and characters grew to be alot more interesting and the story moves forward with great pacing and very deep themes
@@Drugon-Dag It would have been better without such an unbroken time skip at the farm, and if we actually saw how he learned all these values by being a slave. I'd say most of the interesting characters were in the prologue, everything for the zen pacifist Jesus chronicles feels forced.
His philosophy would also not work, other than of course the writing is contrived in order to make it all work out. Though realistically he'd either get his people murdered and raped by Natives in Vinland, as there is lots of evidence to show there was much violence between the two sets of people; Or realize as most pacifists do, that some people can only be reached through violence.
I would have been ok if they didn't use GoT styled gritty war drama to lure us in, to become Pussyfoot the Legend Continues. I am totally down for movies and books that are peaceful and such. The tone and style of the story stays balanced. Or like if his pacifism would have led quickly to the end of the story, instead of being a completely different story under the same name.
I came for the Mortal Kombat, and left because it turned into Breakfast at Tiffanys.
@@JKurayami Thorfinn learned all his values by forgiving askladd for his wrong doing and he did that by getting to know himself through the quiet time and enduring all the pain and suffering until he understood himself and understood askladd which leads him to forgive askladd for his wrong doings, and ever since than hes started overcoming mental and physical obstacles along the way and slowly remember his fathers values
Thorfinn being a pacifist is more of a result for his guilt of killing many people in the past but we see him overcome this as he brings knives spares and axes as a last resort of defense, and this brings me to my next point.
Through these recent chapters thorfinn knows all too well and has realized that the times they're in is very violent so reeking more violence isn't always nessacary as it is and there is always a time and place for everything. He will try to discuss through peace with the natives but if not nessacary than self defense would be the last resort
Literally Vinland sage is my #2 ima watch read berserk n if ts ass I blame y’all😭😭