Great ending to this video, I really love the sound of the PPG, this is looking Very Exciting! Love that they did the One key sequencer just like the original, I never thought that would be done, but WOW!!!
I'm very happy to have a reliable , portable and sturdy option to my 2.2s. Speaking of the transients, the one thing that the Waveterm allowed for was adjusting sample length via rate reduction, so there was a way to get longer samples into the Wave - Ultravox demonstrated this on A Friend I Call Desire - Midge Ure's vocal sample. They got a lot of mileage out of the 2.2's sample playback ability with the Waveterm A and the Lament album has the 2.2 doing patches and samples all over it - almost like a demo for PPG. If Behringer had modeled this after the 2.3, much longer samples and 8-part mutlti-timbre/multisamples could be set up since the 2.3 could use the entire wave memory of the 2.3 unlike the 2.2 - the famous T400 orchestral choir sample was a good example. Further still, the 2.3 needed to be put into 2.2 mode for programming sounds - the latter only using 8-bit waves, while in 2.3 mode they're played back at 12 bit resolution. The best of both on one machine. When sampled on the Waveterm B at 16 bit then ported to the Wave, this gave an excellent quality sample for the time.
Informative video. I watch the whole thing - you had me from the first few minutes. I agree that the 1980s style, data-entry button interface is a key selling point. Nicely done.
Many commenters are missing the point. This is for us guys who’ve wanted a PPG Wave since the ‘80s but couldn’t even dream of affording one. And even if you score a deal on one today, you’ll have to sell your firstborn to keep it running. It appears Behringer has presented us with the closest experience to an original Wave humanly possible while keeping the price affordable for nearly anyone. The quirkiness and cryptic programming are part and parcel of the Wave experience.
And not since the 80s - I started producing in 2011 but I love these vintage interfaces and faithful recreations. They evoke different results. I hate the consolidation of all creative tools many people often demand - usually people who aren’t pushing their tools very hard in the first place. So many people want everything to work like everything else, do everything else does, and make the same sounds as everything else. It’s so boring, and I think it’s great that behringer wants to keep the character of these old machines as intact as possible. As the sound of plugins catches up, that inspiration factor is the whole reason anyone should buy hardware nowadays.
The comments from the Behringer haters crack me up. It's like Mary Whitehouse when I was a kid - watching TV shows she knew would offend her just so she could complain to the Beeb! 🤡🤣
Learning to overcome vintage OS systems with this era of hybrid synthesis is the very essence of creativity and I appreciate Behringer recreating these things. Things won’t feel like they felt if they feel like something different.
That's true. Different interfaces tend to take you in a certain direction, or lead you to discover new things rather than relying on tried and trusted techniques
Thanks Starsky. A big user (well, not him but two programmers that he hired to operate the PPG) was Gary Numan for his Berserker and The Fury record in the mid 80s.
I’ve found the quick start guide is good for having all the abbreviations in one place, for instance the tuning page as first glance looks quite intimidating, but with guide to hand is really quite well ordered if a little cryptic at first, as with other pages. Once again another great video.
thanks Starsky this synth is going to do my brain in iv had it a week and its still in the box unopened but looking forward to learning what it can do so keep up the tutorials
Thanks for the video :) ! I have a Waldorf Microwave 1 Rev A with PPG waveforms on external card, and I will definitely get this little blue one ! Just to please my (still alive) inner little teen from the 80s who couldn't afford that German blue color :) Peace !
Fantastic video Starsky. Initially I was very underwhelmed by the BWave but, the more I delved in the more I loved it. It has a few caveats but that that was the nature of the beast it is based on.
Absolutely. I made a demo with an OG PPG vs 3rd wave and neither me or my mate (it’s his synth) could quite remember what was going on. After this refresher I’m ready for the real thing again!
@@StarskyCarr Be an interesting side by side comparison. TBH I don't even care if Behringer got it spot on a miles away. The BWave gives me a lot of fun and some great sounds and to top it all it's built like a tank.
Both a congratulation and a complaint to Behringer: A congratulation to them for sticking to the charm of the original, because it respects the desire of the people who have/had the original PPG or could never own one. You get exactly how the PPG functioned. The complaint comes from those that - like me - prefer a much more modern and practical way of doing things (personally I would ditch the numeric pad and put a clickable knob, as an example). Never the less, a formidable job by the Behringer team and a formidable explanation by Starsky as per usual. Kind regards.
Just an FYI there is a clickable knob. I don’t use it much I t he demo but at some point I show the small black knob under the screen as a scroll and click option for selecting and adjusting parameters .
@@StarskyCarr "Crack the code" is a lyric from Rush's "The Body Electric", from Grace Under Pressure, which is an album that very prominently features the PPG! You're a genius man, and you didn't even know it!!🤣
@@StarskyCarr I assumed it probably wasn't intended too, hehe. "Trying to change the mode - crack the code" is a line in the lyrics from "The Body Electric". (insert Rush Nerd emoji)
I was really excited about that synth at first, but now I think ASM Hydrasynth can do do much more with five envelopes and LFOs, apart from custom waveforms loading. Another plus for Hydra is very clear and straightforward layout which makes it joy to program own presets.
Me gusta mucho la respuesta en los bajos, suenan muy bien, perfecto para acompañar de un sonido pad para electro pop , dance, new wave y chill out. Greetings 👍
Lovely demo! Love the transient feature. Im curious where you found the fairlight Orch 2 sample? It seens to not be online anywhere. Same goes for the other sounds, the Lobrary just shows T400 and not the name. Hmm. Cheers
Yeah, I understand why they’ve taken that route and once you’ve had a play with it everything falls into place. I wonder if there’s some psychology that links the looks and control to authentic replication of the audio.
@@deadmanwalking6342 It may be archaic to start with, but honestly after a few days it starts to fall into place. We all like a bit of a challenge to keep the brain ticking over.
Serious question. If you had the funds to buy a 3rd wave or this which one would you purchase? I’ve been saving money for months for the 3rd wave but it seems as if enough work went into the Behringer wave that it might be a decent, much cheaper alternative. I don’t need the sampling option of the 3rd wave.
the 3rd wave does the 'PPG thing' brilliantly, but it's more of a starting point to the rest of the synth. 3 oscillators, 4 LFOs, 4 Envs, a complex wave envelope, modulation matrix, MPE compatible, VA oscillator tones plus it's own pristine 96kHz wavetables. It can create wavetables from audio , has 4 part multitimbrality and 24 voices. So all in all the 3rd wave blows this out of the water from a functionality perspective. But if you only want the PPG thing then this is worth looking at.
@StarskyCarr thanks so much for the additional information. It is really helpful to me. I think I will go 3rd wave then, but I appreciate what Behringer is doing.
Thank you for your work. Around 33:50, you mention that the sequencer can do step recording and something involving the metronome. Is this a type of live recording? I asked a beta tester, and he mentioned that there’s no live recording at all. But if that’s the case, I’m curious why there would be a metronome. I also have another question: Can the sequencer start and play using an external MIDI clock and start-stop signal?
I’ve not dug into it enough yet to give a decent answer. There’s a metronome click for playing and a click and ping when recording. I’ve recorded parts live over existing sequences - but not recorded ‘live’ from zero. When recording live and overdubbing it doesn’t loop where the original stopped but continues up to step 64. So a little more investigation is needed. But that takes a lot of time to make sure you’ve understood it fully, as it’s easy to make errors when deciding what must be happening! Like reverse engineering 🤓
@@StarskyCarr Thank you for the detailed explanation! The way overdubbing work-continuing up to step 64 instead of looping where the original stopped seems a bit unconventional. Reverse engineering definitely sounds like the right term for it!
Awesome! I attempted to import the Fairlight.Wave library, but it seems the synthtribe app wont read the files. Do you recommend a way to get the fairlight samples on the Wave? Thanks!!!
Hey Starsky, I really really like the ideas of Behringer, but I was curious if you could perhaps make a video discussing repairability. My local store has been in business for decades, and they don't carry behringer 1 because the distributor is kinda lame, and also getting parts to repair them is basically if not actually impossible. I'm scared that companies that do offer parts will go out of business and that any companies wanting to remain in business will stop offering repair programs to compete. Do you happen to know much about repairability for various synthesizers and getting stuff fixed? I don't know how to solder, so naturally I'd take my synth to the store which.... hopefully will be in like 30~ years or so, but in 30 years to not be able to fix it... you know... haha :/ Thanks! If you get a chance to talk to some shops that repair synths, maybe they can help provide some real information.
@@hislittlecuzin repairing any modern synth will have similar issues. Look inside a Prophet 5/10 and you’ll see a surface mount integrated board that was produced in a modern automated facility co raining all 5 voices in a ti y footprint. I show it in my prophet 5 upgrade video. Behringer is no different to the others in that respect. Modern parts should be more reliable than older ones (not a popularly held belief but true nonetheless) - part of the challenge of making recreations is incorporating the wide tolerances of older components into newer more refined tech. Behringer comes with a 3 year warranty at least. 2 years more than most. If you bought a PPG for the price of a car in the 80s you might have expected it to last 30 years (they didn’t - almost all will have needed repair by now). At £500 at least you can buy a brand new one for less than the repair costs of an older one if things did go disastrously wrong. But I’ve not had any issues with the board in any of my modern kit… it’s normally stuff like the pots or pitchbend ie mechanical stuff that can easily be replaced. I can’t comment on Behringer’s distributor. I have found smaller companies to be exceptional in their response - but again they all use similar tech. Surface mount modern circuitry. Anything else is financially unsustainable. Only my. Of the larger companies only the Minimoog 2016 onwards and Studio Electronics uses the older tech as far as I know. But there will be other boutique companies that still use it… at a price.
@StarskyCarr yeah surface mount repair is definitely difficult-much harder than through hole. My concern is mostly just "can I get parts?" Because computer and phone repair UA-cam have figured out how to teach surface mount repair so anyone can get started in the business. When I was working in paintball even then some devices from 10~15 years ago were starting to be difficult to get parts for just because they decided solenoids should be custom shaped or non standard o ring sizes. The companies are still in business but they won't make parts for the older stuff nor make the new parts compatible with older stuff.
@@hislittlecuzinBehringer use standard parts.. it’s how they can do things at such low cost. I’d imagine replacing anything will be the same as for any synth or new piece of tech. The big problem for older synths is that some chips are no longer produced for lots of them.
@@StarskyCarr I'll have to talk to the repair technician again then. Maybe he hasn't been doing board level repair much on the new stuff. I know he has worked on original vacuum tube eq and cs 80s (they have them in the store it's super cool) so maybe I was misunderstanding something. Thanks!!
@@hislittlecuzin I suspect that eventually Syntaur etc. will be buying up dead Behringers for parts just like any other synth. That reminds me I need to take another look at the dead aftertouch board on my DX7 IID to see if I can repair it or if I need a replacement.
What a wonderful instrument, but apparently no unison detune. Isn't that possible in combination with the feature you shew when every voice had a completely different pitch and/or are there just strong detunings possible? Does the voice mode that stacks f. e. 5(?) voices not allow or deactivate voice detune?
Hi! Can you prepare a whole drum-kit for different keys using a single voice? Somehow... Maybe by modulating through presets (a kind of PLock of Elektrons) or by Wave (or Wavetable) modulation through keys... My whole point is to get a small workstation in a single box. Ideally with a song mode or with chainable patterns.
@@StarskyCarr Ahaaa, exactly what I was thinking, it would be great tough if the drums came from the Wave! Hmmmm, a PPG waveform sampler combo! HELLO!!!
Eventually got mine with a 3-day delay ‘thanks‘ to 😡 UPS 😡. Basic operation is already comprehended, also thanks to this video. However, I haven‘t found anything about *initialising a patch* . DTF: 8 is called Init, but it does an entire system reset. Help! I really want to make a patch from scratch, because this is the best way to understand a synth.
What I did understood: it's multitimbral! Why are there separate audio outs for every voice then? BTW, can you modulate the filter by the osc. wave (sub osc wave maybe)?
There’s no cross mod, and it’s not multitimbral. The 8 outs are a minor mystery at the moment, they were in the OG, but I think the plan may be to have 8 parts and 8 outs. The onboard tech must be able to do it - 8 voices, 8 amp envelopes, 8 filter envs, 8 filters. But it’s prob a nightmare to program… hoping for firmware updates.
@StarskyCarr I don't think it's hard to make an inner modulation for the Cutoff (by SubOsc) if there are physical connections inside. No, I'm sure it's not a nightmare to make it multitimbral. It has STM32 or even a powerful FPGA maybe. They're capable to route such things. There are multiplexors (my guess) so you just need to use them for delivering different patches for every voice. Multiplexors are like "revolvers" for sequential delivering of data from one core to many instances. So you don't need a lot of outs from the core by this.
This is very much a multitimbral synth. See the manual, first page: "Legendary 8-Voice Multi-Timbral Hybrid Synthesizer".This again goes to show how much misinformation there is on social media.
Thanks Tom. An editor could be useful for some things... but I should really have mentioned that being restricted by an archaic interface tends to lead you to program it in certain ways, which could spark some creativity. The demo I made at the end for example came from me playing with the mod/LFO and seeing how different rates could create different rhythms as it passed through to the 2nd upper wavetable - you can get those results with a standard editor interface, but it was the exploration that sparked the idea.
Good idea that they removed the irritating standard waves at the end of tables. Playing around with waldorf vst. They just get into lfo wave mods all the time and it results in awful wavetable sounds. This needs a full computer and ideally vst editor. Good informative demo.
$600??? Not to compare voice-count and build quality to the Groove 3rd Wave, but my lerd, Uli is aggressive! I'd love to see an A/B comparison using similar patches, if possible.
Yeah. The 3rd wave has a standard ‘normal’ mode and a PPG mode for the envelopes. The PPG mode is weird AF 😂 who knows why anyone would pick it intentionally 😵💫 so although it’s true to the original, it’s my main ask for an update.
Great video! Really looking forward to mine! A question, is it bandlimited by the analog filter? I have always heard that the PPG WAVE was very bright and didnt actually filter out any aliasing with fixed filters, and thought that it went high into the audio spectrum. How is it compared to other analog synths, like the MS-5 for instance, as bright?
Yes, the signal goes directly from the DAC to the VCF. It's very bright and cutting. If you open up the filter it has a very fine grained, shiny top end. Plenty of frequencies going up beyond human hearing range.
There’s no anti aliasing in the OG MODE if that’s what you’re asking - watch my previous video which shows the vintage vs modern enhanced modes. The OGs didn’t have the processing power for anti aliasing so as the previous reply says the signal path was oscillator direct to filter - no other processing. Anti aliasing tends to cut higher frequencies for obvious reasons. On this, however, you can use an enhanced mode that reduces aliasing if you like - but in a modern processor that doesn’t kill the high end. Keep it in vintage mode and you get all the quirks of the PPG
This is like the pro800 I'm about to sell, great little synth but they have copied the worst features (the keypad) and made it so difficult to use. It hampers creativity!!
@StarskyCarr it's nice, I just find it too frustrating to use. My favourite synths I've owned are korgs and moogs where most of the features don't require menu diving. I sold a minilogue a few months back to and I miss it so much, it was so easy and quick to dial in. I might get another one lol
To me this is where Behringer falls down. The features of the ppg are great but the menu's are terrible, they could have made this much cleaner and easier to use by deviating from the ppg menu's while retaining the same sound. Also, honestly the shallow depth of the panel with the controls while I'm sure it saves $, it just makes the synth look cheap as the proportions are all wrong when the keys are way deeper than the control panel.
It didn’t feel cheap at namm it was heavy and felt like a 3k synth steel side panels metal blue top nice keys better than Roland and poly aftertouch was insane
I do agree with the control panel being too tiny, the recently unveiled BX1 is a definite improvement and I hope the CS80 clone gets the same treatment.
@@Gyrbae The BX1 may have some improvements to the original, but it still isn’t a good design. Korg has already demonstrated how cartoonishly flawed pretty much the entire DX line of FM synths are. There is no need to stick with objectively inferior design choices because of vibes. Certainly no need to say how such inferior designs are welcomed
I sounds a lot like a Prophet VS to me. I'm getting pretty similar times from my Pro VS mini. Im not saying this isn't a better synth- it definitely is, but I'm not sure if I could justify the space/cost for what this has to offer.
@SPAZZOID100 Yeah, I'm aware the original rare as rocking-horse-poo PPG Wave was first (by about 5 years I think), but I'm the present day, the Behringer ProVS mini was released before the Wave ripoff.
I had a Behringer deepmind and this was a piece of junk in terms of sound and overall quality. And it wasn’t a clone. For me it’s absolutely uninspiring to sit infringed of something stollen…
Great ending to this video, I really love the sound of the PPG, this is looking Very Exciting! Love that they did the One key sequencer just like the original, I never thought that would be done, but WOW!!!
Yeah that feature is nuts and very cool.
Thanks, maestro! This will help me to get started when my unit eventually arrives in 1 to 2 weeks.
Wow thanks ever so much.
I'm very happy to have a reliable , portable and sturdy option to my 2.2s. Speaking of the transients, the one thing that the Waveterm allowed for was adjusting sample length via rate reduction, so there was a way to get longer samples into the Wave - Ultravox demonstrated this on A Friend I Call Desire - Midge Ure's vocal sample. They got a lot of mileage out of the 2.2's sample playback ability with the Waveterm A and the Lament album has the 2.2 doing patches and samples all over it - almost like a demo for PPG. If Behringer had modeled this after the 2.3, much longer samples and 8-part mutlti-timbre/multisamples could be set up since the 2.3 could use the entire wave memory of the 2.3 unlike the 2.2 - the famous T400 orchestral choir sample was a good example. Further still, the 2.3 needed to be put into 2.2 mode for programming sounds - the latter only using 8-bit waves, while in 2.3 mode they're played back at 12 bit resolution. The best of both on one machine. When sampled on the Waveterm B at 16 bit then ported to the Wave, this gave an excellent quality sample for the time.
Informative video. I watch the whole thing - you had me from the first few minutes. I agree that the 1980s style, data-entry button interface is a key selling point. Nicely done.
Many commenters are missing the point. This is for us guys who’ve wanted a PPG Wave since the ‘80s but couldn’t even dream of affording one. And even if you score a deal on one today, you’ll have to sell your firstborn to keep it running. It appears Behringer has presented us with the closest experience to an original Wave humanly possible while keeping the price affordable for nearly anyone. The quirkiness and cryptic programming are part and parcel of the Wave experience.
And not since the 80s - I started producing in 2011 but I love these vintage interfaces and faithful recreations. They evoke different results. I hate the consolidation of all creative tools many people often demand - usually people who aren’t pushing their tools very hard in the first place. So many people want everything to work like everything else, do everything else does, and make the same sounds as everything else. It’s so boring, and I think it’s great that behringer wants to keep the character of these old machines as intact as possible. As the sound of plugins catches up, that inspiration factor is the whole reason anyone should buy hardware nowadays.
Spot on!
Thanks for your really easy to understand demonstration of this great synthesizer.😁
haha thanks.. I did think I was waffling on a little, so at least it's not as hard to understand as I thought I was making it!! :)
This is what many of us wanted and this is what we got. I like it and that sound... is just right.
The comments from the Behringer haters crack me up. It's like Mary Whitehouse when I was a kid - watching TV shows she knew would offend her just so she could complain to the Beeb! 🤡🤣
Learning to overcome vintage OS systems with this era of hybrid synthesis is the very essence of creativity and I appreciate Behringer recreating these things. Things won’t feel like they felt if they feel like something different.
That's true. Different interfaces tend to take you in a certain direction, or lead you to discover new things rather than relying on tried and trusted techniques
First. Thank you Mr. Starsky waiting for it so long
Thanks Starsky. A big user (well, not him but two programmers that he hired to operate the PPG) was Gary Numan for his Berserker and The Fury record in the mid 80s.
I love that he hired 2 people to operate it 😂
I’ve found the quick start guide is good for having all the abbreviations in one place, for instance the tuning page as first glance looks quite intimidating, but with guide to hand is really quite well ordered if a little cryptic at first, as with other pages. Once again another great video.
thanks Starsky this synth is going to do my brain in iv had it a week and its still in the box unopened but looking forward to learning what it can do so keep up the tutorials
after a few minutes it'll all click into place. It looks more cumbersome than it actually is.
@StarskyCarr 👍👍🎵
Thanks for the video :) ! I have a Waldorf Microwave 1 Rev A with PPG waveforms on external card, and I will definitely get this little blue one ! Just to please my (still alive) inner little teen from the 80s who couldn't afford that German blue color :) Peace !
Thanks for the extensive review Mr.Carr.
Well done Behringer very impressive.
Sadly I didn't want one when offered in 1992.....
I like the keyboard to wavetable option, good way of finding a wave you like/want/need.
Great video! Super useful. This will help out tremendously if I decide to get it. Thanks!🤘
Pardon my French but I’m so f*cking excited to receive mine especially after this video!
Fantastic video Starsky. Initially I was very underwhelmed by the BWave but, the more I delved in the more I loved it. It has a few caveats but that that was the nature of the beast it is based on.
Absolutely. I made a demo with an OG PPG vs 3rd wave and neither me or my mate (it’s his synth) could quite remember what was going on. After this refresher I’m ready for the real thing again!
@@StarskyCarr Be an interesting side by side comparison. TBH I don't even care if Behringer got it spot on a miles away. The BWave gives me a lot of fun and some great sounds and to top it all it's built like a tank.
Both a congratulation and a complaint to Behringer:
A congratulation to them for sticking to the charm of the original, because it respects the desire of the people who have/had the original PPG or could never own one. You get exactly how the PPG functioned.
The complaint comes from those that - like me - prefer a much more modern and practical way of doing things (personally I would ditch the numeric pad and put a clickable knob, as an example).
Never the less, a formidable job by the Behringer team and a formidable explanation by Starsky as per usual.
Kind regards.
Just an FYI there is a clickable knob. I don’t use it much I t he demo but at some point I show the small black knob under the screen as a scroll and click option for selecting and adjusting parameters .
@StarskyCarr you are the man.
Great Video as anytime, thanks for it.
I like the reference to Rush in the video thumbnail :)
And we can also "change the mode" (between "original firmware" and "enhanced", that is).
I’d love to say it was intentional 😂 what’s the reference?
@@StarskyCarr "Crack the code" is a lyric from Rush's "The Body Electric", from Grace Under Pressure, which is an album that very prominently features the PPG! You're a genius man, and you didn't even know it!!🤣
@@StarskyCarr I assumed it probably wasn't intended too, hehe. "Trying to change the mode - crack the code" is a line in the lyrics from "The Body Electric". (insert Rush Nerd emoji)
@@davidvectorhaha brilliant. Love it
I was really excited about that synth at first, but now I think ASM Hydrasynth can do do much more with five envelopes and LFOs, apart from custom waveforms loading.
Another plus for Hydra is very clear and straightforward layout which makes it joy to program own presets.
Yeah the Hydrasynth is an amazingly flexible machine. It can’t sound quite like this, but it does a lot more.
I have been waiting for the Starsky presentation of the wave. 😃
That cat looks so comfortable it must be in charge. :)
Cat or Dog are essential to keeping humans peaceful and sane 😊
Oh yes!
Lovely demo!
Enjoyed the demo!
Me gusta mucho la respuesta en los bajos, suenan muy bien, perfecto para acompañar de un sonido pad para electro pop , dance, new wave y chill out. Greetings 👍
Fantastic review, I’ve seen sound demos, but that menu has killed my GAS for this 😂 my bank account will be happy
It’s not so bad once you get used to it. I’ve used a lot more impenetrable new studios in a box things. First impressions are nuts though!
thanks for this! Still waiting for mine, but I'm sure it will help a lot with the initial confusion :)
This is Behringer best sounding synth imo
I can’t wait for mines to arrive
Weird demo at the end.NICE!
Weird?... this demo changed ny outlook! Beautiful ambient drone.
Lovely demo! Love the transient feature. Im curious where you found the fairlight Orch 2 sample? It seens to not be online anywhere. Same goes for the other sounds, the Lobrary just shows T400 and not the name. Hmm. Cheers
This give me a headstart for then my Wave arrives
Cool… I wish I’d seen this first 😂
Archaic editing system
thats the point
Yeah, I understand why they’ve taken that route and once you’ve had a play with it everything falls into place. I wonder if there’s some psychology that links the looks and control to authentic replication of the audio.
@jakobthiesen😅
@ yep, still they could have another easier one and let the user chose which one to use
@@deadmanwalking6342 It may be archaic to start with, but honestly after a few days it starts to fall into place. We all like a bit of a challenge to keep the brain ticking over.
I still don't understand how each voice has a separate output? How does it allocate a note or voice to an output?
That’s a mystery! It allocates on a per patch basis. But it does have a stereo output.
Can't eait for tge JT-16! 😎
Fire demo track!!!
thanks
great review, as always! one question prior my final decision - pot shafts, METAL or PLASTIC? thanks in advance!
Just popped one off, plastic although they are pretty solid
@@JamesCorbettMusic5000 thanks a lot!
Serious question. If you had the funds to buy a 3rd wave or this which one would you purchase? I’ve been saving money for months for the 3rd wave but it seems as if enough work went into the Behringer wave that it might be a decent, much cheaper alternative. I don’t need the sampling option of the 3rd wave.
the 3rd wave does the 'PPG thing' brilliantly, but it's more of a starting point to the rest of the synth. 3 oscillators, 4 LFOs, 4 Envs, a complex wave envelope, modulation matrix, MPE compatible, VA oscillator tones plus it's own pristine 96kHz wavetables. It can create wavetables from audio , has 4 part multitimbrality and 24 voices. So all in all the 3rd wave blows this out of the water from a functionality perspective. But if you only want the PPG thing then this is worth looking at.
@StarskyCarr thanks so much for the additional information. It is really helpful to me. I think I will go 3rd wave then, but I appreciate what Behringer is doing.
Excellent work hope you'll find a reason to make some more music with it.
Thank you for your work. Around 33:50, you mention that the sequencer can do step recording and something involving the metronome. Is this a type of live recording? I asked a beta tester, and he mentioned that there’s no live recording at all. But if that’s the case, I’m curious why there would be a metronome.
I also have another question: Can the sequencer start and play using an external MIDI clock and start-stop signal?
I’ve not dug into it enough yet to give a decent answer. There’s a metronome click for playing and a click and ping when recording. I’ve recorded parts live over existing sequences - but not recorded ‘live’ from zero. When recording live and overdubbing it doesn’t loop where the original stopped but continues up to step 64. So a little more investigation is needed. But that takes a lot of time to make sure you’ve understood it fully, as it’s easy to make errors when deciding what must be happening! Like reverse engineering 🤓
@@StarskyCarr Thank you for the detailed explanation! The way overdubbing work-continuing up to step 64 instead of looping where the original stopped seems a bit unconventional. Reverse engineering definitely sounds like the right term for it!
An inny! Ha! Loving season 2 so far. Looking fdorward to working for Macrodata Refinement >.< Atleast it sounds good!
4:00 Wow it has a large pull-out screen! That's great.
4:04 Realized my mistake.
Oh, too bad. Not a deal breaker.
haha.
Awesome! I attempted to import the Fairlight.Wave library, but it seems the synthtribe app wont read the files. Do you recommend a way to get the fairlight samples on the Wave? Thanks!!!
You’ll have to put them in the same format as the Waveterm samples I think. I used the ones from that PPG site as the benchmark.
20:20 gonna touch the sky
Hey Starsky, I really really like the ideas of Behringer, but I was curious if you could perhaps make a video discussing repairability.
My local store has been in business for decades, and they don't carry behringer 1 because the distributor is kinda lame, and also getting parts to repair them is basically if not actually impossible.
I'm scared that companies that do offer parts will go out of business and that any companies wanting to remain in business will stop offering repair programs to compete.
Do you happen to know much about repairability for various synthesizers and getting stuff fixed?
I don't know how to solder, so naturally I'd take my synth to the store which.... hopefully will be in like 30~ years or so, but in 30 years to not be able to fix it... you know... haha :/
Thanks!
If you get a chance to talk to some shops that repair synths, maybe they can help provide some real information.
@@hislittlecuzin repairing any modern synth will have similar issues. Look inside a Prophet 5/10 and you’ll see a surface mount integrated board that was produced in a modern automated facility co raining all 5 voices in a ti y footprint. I show it in my prophet 5 upgrade video. Behringer is no different to the others in that respect.
Modern parts should be more reliable than older ones (not a popularly held belief but true nonetheless) - part of the challenge of making recreations is incorporating the wide tolerances of older components into newer more refined tech.
Behringer comes with a 3 year warranty at least. 2 years more than most.
If you bought a PPG for the price of a car in the 80s you might have expected it to last 30 years (they didn’t - almost all will have needed repair by now). At £500 at least you can buy a brand new one for less than the repair costs of an older one if things did go disastrously wrong. But I’ve not had any issues with the board in any of my modern kit… it’s normally stuff like the pots or pitchbend ie mechanical stuff that can easily be replaced.
I can’t comment on Behringer’s distributor. I have found smaller companies to be exceptional in their response - but again they all use similar tech. Surface mount modern circuitry. Anything else is financially unsustainable. Only my. Of the larger companies only the Minimoog 2016 onwards and Studio Electronics uses the older tech as far as I know. But there will be other boutique companies that still use it… at a price.
@StarskyCarr yeah surface mount repair is definitely difficult-much harder than through hole.
My concern is mostly just "can I get parts?" Because computer and phone repair UA-cam have figured out how to teach surface mount repair so anyone can get started in the business.
When I was working in paintball even then some devices from 10~15 years ago were starting to be difficult to get parts for just because they decided solenoids should be custom shaped or non standard o ring sizes. The companies are still in business but they won't make parts for the older stuff nor make the new parts compatible with older stuff.
@@hislittlecuzinBehringer use standard parts.. it’s how they can do things at such low cost. I’d imagine replacing anything will be the same as for any synth or new piece of tech.
The big problem for older synths is that some chips are no longer produced for lots of them.
@@StarskyCarr I'll have to talk to the repair technician again then.
Maybe he hasn't been doing board level repair much on the new stuff.
I know he has worked on original vacuum tube eq and cs 80s (they have them in the store it's super cool) so maybe I was misunderstanding something.
Thanks!!
@@hislittlecuzin I suspect that eventually Syntaur etc. will be buying up dead Behringers for parts just like any other synth. That reminds me I need to take another look at the dead aftertouch board on my DX7 IID to see if I can repair it or if I need a replacement.
26:00 - it's nostalgic for ppl who did used PPG, but IMO these hard release tails aren't good :)
I agree, it’s my #1 request for an update. But it wouldn’t put me off the synth.
What a wonderful instrument, but apparently no unison detune. Isn't that possible in combination with the feature you shew when every voice had a completely different pitch and/or are there just strong detunings possible? Does the voice mode that stacks f. e. 5(?) voices not allow or deactivate voice detune?
No, it’s not possible (yet at least). The tuning of the voices is by semitone.
@StarskyCarr Oh, that's a pity! Thanks for answering.
I really like to hear your opinion on this!
Hi! Can you prepare a whole drum-kit for different keys using a single voice? Somehow... Maybe by modulating through presets (a kind of PLock of Elektrons) or by Wave (or Wavetable) modulation through keys... My whole point is to get a small workstation in a single box. Ideally with a song mode or with chainable patterns.
If they can get a multitimbral mode working then definitely - using transients. There’s loads of drum samples on the website I showed.
The best manual so far from Behringer? That's interesting, and about time.
Is the last demo all Wave?
Except the drums yes.
@@StarskyCarr Ahaaa, exactly what I was thinking, it would be great tough if the drums came from the Wave!
Hmmmm, a PPG waveform sampler combo! HELLO!!!
Eventually got mine with a 3-day delay ‘thanks‘ to 😡 UPS 😡. Basic operation is already comprehended, also thanks to this video. However, I haven‘t found anything about *initialising a patch* . DTF: 8 is called Init, but it does an entire system reset. Help! I really want to make a patch from scratch, because this is the best way to understand a synth.
I just made my own. Turned all
Mod off and used wave 000 - it would defo be a useful function!
But yeah.. went through the same as you 😂🤦♂️
@ I would have paid an extra 2 Euros for a groundbreaking automatic ‘Init Patch’ function which *no* other synth has! 🙃🥴
What I did understood: it's multitimbral! Why are there separate audio outs for every voice then?
BTW, can you modulate the filter by the osc. wave (sub osc wave maybe)?
There’s no cross mod, and it’s not multitimbral. The 8 outs are a minor mystery at the moment, they were in the OG, but I think the plan may be to have 8 parts and 8 outs. The onboard tech must be able to do it - 8 voices, 8 amp envelopes, 8 filter envs, 8 filters. But it’s prob a nightmare to program… hoping for firmware updates.
@StarskyCarr I don't think it's hard to make an inner modulation for the Cutoff (by SubOsc) if there are physical connections inside.
No, I'm sure it's not a nightmare to make it multitimbral. It has STM32 or even a powerful FPGA maybe. They're capable to route such things. There are multiplexors (my guess) so you just need to use them for delivering different patches for every voice. Multiplexors are like "revolvers" for sequential delivering of data from one core to many instances. So you don't need a lot of outs from the core by this.
This is very much a multitimbral synth. See the manual, first page: "Legendary 8-Voice Multi-Timbral Hybrid Synthesizer".This again goes to show how much misinformation there is on social media.
this thing definitely needs an editor 😉sounds lovely, thanks for the videos Starsky
Thanks Tom. An editor could be useful for some things... but I should really have mentioned that being restricted by an archaic interface tends to lead you to program it in certain ways, which could spark some creativity. The demo I made at the end for example came from me playing with the mod/LFO and seeing how different rates could create different rhythms as it passed through to the 2nd upper wavetable - you can get those results with a standard editor interface, but it was the exploration that sparked the idea.
Weird that they couldn't have named saving a preset SAV or STR for store, instead of DTO
There’s lots of other data transfer functions in that setting!
Good idea that they removed the irritating standard waves at the end of tables. Playing around with waldorf vst. They just get into lfo wave mods all the time and it results in awful wavetable sounds. This needs a full computer and ideally vst editor.
Good informative demo.
No. I don’t want anything tethered to my computer.
just out of interest is there a factory reset procedure ??
yes, you can do it via synthtribe
@@StarskyCarr many thanks 👍
Hopefully they make a module, cannot fit another keyboard
Does it ever show a preset name?
I don't think so. I've not seen any, only the wavetable and transient names
Nice synth but have no desire to program a synth on a two row screen
There’s a definite charm to it that I’ve warmed to!
$600??? Not to compare voice-count and build quality to the Groove 3rd Wave, but my lerd, Uli is aggressive! I'd love to see an A/B comparison using similar patches, if possible.
I wish i could afford a Prophet X
It sounds to me like the envelopes are scaled logarithmically, which is kind of weird. Ive never seen that before
Yeah. The 3rd wave has a standard ‘normal’ mode and a PPG mode for the envelopes. The PPG mode is weird AF 😂 who knows why anyone would pick it intentionally 😵💫 so although it’s true to the original, it’s my main ask for an update.
@ right, im sure it wouldnt be difficult to implement a linear envelope mode since they modern modes for pretty much all the other stuff too it seems
supreme job fella
Great video! Really looking forward to mine! A question, is it bandlimited by the analog filter? I have always heard that the PPG WAVE was very bright and didnt actually filter out any aliasing with fixed filters, and thought that it went high into the audio spectrum. How is it compared to other analog synths, like the MS-5 for instance, as bright?
Yes, the signal goes directly from the DAC to the VCF. It's very bright and cutting. If you open up the filter it has a very fine grained, shiny top end. Plenty of frequencies going up beyond human hearing range.
@@calyx93Good to hear! I wonder if this is also true of this clone.
There’s no anti aliasing in the OG MODE if that’s what you’re asking - watch my previous video which shows the vintage vs modern enhanced modes. The OGs didn’t have the processing power for anti aliasing so as the previous reply says the signal path was oscillator direct to filter - no other processing. Anti aliasing tends to cut higher frequencies for obvious reasons.
On this, however, you can use an enhanced mode that reduces aliasing if you like - but in a modern processor that doesn’t kill the high end. Keep it in vintage mode and you get all the quirks of the PPG
This is like the pro800 I'm about to sell, great little synth but they have copied the worst features (the keypad) and made it so difficult to use. It hampers creativity!!
aah.. that pro800 is an amazing little synth for the price. The interface can be annoying though!
@StarskyCarr it's nice, I just find it too frustrating to use. My favourite synths I've owned are korgs and moogs where most of the features don't require menu diving. I sold a minilogue a few months back to and I miss it so much, it was so easy and quick to dial in. I might get another one lol
Does anyone think they might change the envelope in new firmware?
I'm hoping so. I won't be the only one that notices it. Its not a deal breaker in any way, but would be a nice addition.
you look like roger taylor from queen.
I’ll take that. He’s a good looking chap 😂🕺🏼
'Severance' reference, just finished binging the first season. Great show. Horrible company,🍎.
… or is it? Season 2 might show it to be a saviour!
@ I meant Apple.
apple 🍎 🍎
"Innie working at Lumen"?
It’s a reference to Severance
I was lost at namm like wtf
Haha sounds like me when I tried to play with my mates original
Did you know that the profits for this go to a charity?
By what route do you mean?
@Skootavision it's some music charity that gives music lessons and instruments to less fortunate people.
Would have been nice if it was a 5 octave like the original
To me this is where Behringer falls down. The features of the ppg are great but the menu's are terrible, they could have made this much cleaner and easier to use by deviating from the ppg menu's while retaining the same sound. Also, honestly the shallow depth of the panel with the controls while I'm sure it saves $, it just makes the synth look cheap as the proportions are all wrong when the keys are way deeper than the control panel.
You mean kind of like Third Wave did?
It didn’t feel cheap at namm it was heavy and felt like a 3k synth steel side panels metal blue top nice keys better than Roland and poly aftertouch was insane
If the top of the synth was a bit larger, it would look a bit better and more balanced, true.
I do agree with the control panel being too tiny, the recently unveiled BX1 is a definite improvement and I hope the CS80 clone gets the same treatment.
@@Gyrbae
The BX1 may have some improvements to the original, but it still isn’t a good design. Korg has already demonstrated how cartoonishly flawed pretty much the entire DX line of FM synths are. There is no need to stick with objectively inferior design choices because of vibes.
Certainly no need to say how such inferior designs are welcomed
I sounds a lot like a Prophet VS to me. I'm getting pretty similar times from my Pro VS mini. Im not saying this isn't a better synth- it definitely is, but I'm not sure if I could justify the space/cost for what this has to offer.
This came out long before the VS.
@SPAZZOID100 Yeah, I'm aware the original rare as rocking-horse-poo PPG Wave was first (by about 5 years I think), but I'm the present day, the Behringer ProVS mini was released before the Wave ripoff.
I had a Behringer deepmind and this was a piece of junk in terms of sound and overall quality. And it wasn’t a clone. For me it’s absolutely uninspiring to sit infringed of something stollen…
Not stolen. Patents ran out decades ago. Nobody is going to buy an old PPG for $9,000.
Cheap parts. Cheap junk. Cheap philosophy.
Nobody wants to pay $8,000 for a PPG. Get over it.
@@SPAZZOID100 Nobody wants plastic cheap junk unless you're from the third world and have no choice.
It doesn’t feel cheap. It’s not the highest quality keybed or bolted on steel shafted pots, but it’s at on par with most other kit.