Wait, Go Back! The SMLE MkIII* Wartime Simplification
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 лют 2021
- / forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/Fo...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...
The British entered World War One with a technically excellent rifle, with lots of bells and whistles. By 1916, the war was taking a previously unimaginable toll on the industrial capacity of the Empire and rifle production had to be economized. This led to the adoption of the MkIII* pattern of the Lee Enfield, to reduce cost and speed up production. The MkIII* omitted the windage adjustments on the rear sight, the front and rear volley sight elements, and the magazine cutoff. Around the same time, stock discs stopped being stamped with unit information (to avoid giving military intelligence of troop distribution when rifles were captured) and eventually deleted entirely.
The Pattern 1907 bayonet was also changed, although this does not coincide with the MkIII* rifle. In 1913, the British decided to delete the quillon from the standard bayonet. A great many bayonet with quillons were already in service, and those would be used in World War One, although many were modified in the field to cut off the quillons to avoid them hanging up on barbed wire or other obstacles.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
the 'hooked' bayonets were an easy way for other Australian soldiers to
identify Australian Gallipoli 'veterans' serving in France
My Mark III* received its last proof test in 1995 , after being produced in 1917, so, spent quite a long time in service.
Thats value for money !
Proof test in 1995??
Testing do what
@@liammeech3702 Fired a proof load, and headspace measured as correct afterwards.
@@liammeech3702 that modern powder hehe
Original proof would have been done with an oiled case.
When the lee enfield series will eventually finish i will be in withdrawal.
Time for elbonia to make a sequel to put a SMLE on my face? 😂
Don't worry there still going, somewhere.
Yes, Happy forgotten Bergmann's everyone.
Britishmuzzleloaders has loads of SMLE stuff.
Bergmann series was better, but brainlets could not handle 5 videos in a row on the same topic and started disliking the videos now he has to space them.
My Father's Paternal Grandmother, "Nanny Mary" apparently sent four of her sons off to fight in the Great War and was one of the lucky mums who got them all home again. Some of her lads would have served in the Cambridgeshire Regiment, but I don't have any records of them.
She was very fortunate. There were families with more sons then that and none came back.
@@bigblue6917 so true. Some small villages in that part of E. England lost all their young men. All signed up, none came back. And it was blind luck, in the trenches.
A Mum is a flower. Lol
@@ultranitro437 I know you're being a smart arse, but truth be told, you're absolutely right... My mum is a flower, and my wife is one to our kids
My cousins daddies paternal nephew served in the space brigades of 1814, valiantly and single handedly winning the war there. I have no records of him
I have a friend who participated in the ceremonial burial of the Royal Navy’s last SMLE.
That's awesome!
Quite frankly it’s rather sad. Shame the SMLE couldn’t have been kept on as some sort of drill weapon. It is an endearing lovely rifle, perhaps the most history rich rifle on earth, and to top it off only a handful of Britons may actually own a working one, it’s a disgrace
It was the RN, so did they float test the old girl? I'm certain that it was done with all the honors deserved, but it does seem kind of ignoble to heave such a relic over the side, doubly so if they interred her ashore.
@@isaacharkton6169 Well I won't use any specific terms but there is a certain political regime that is spreading like a cancer throughout the west, you can thank them
They wanted to, but as my Gunnery Instructor at HMS Ganges in 1972 said 'Thier Lordships didn't account for the likes of me sending a thousand rounds a week downrange for our own use'. Though it did mean I got to play with the SLR.
Brought a smle to my face. Great history lesson
Been waiting on this one! I missed the glut of No. 1 Mk III rifles in the 90s when they were all $100 or less. Bought one from a friend.
Still have the receipt for mine from '98; it was $96 w/ tax & a case of ammo (good SA surplus). Didn't even know what I had back then. Still love it. I feel old now.
I just bought a SMLE MK3* 1918 today. It's all matching and cherry. Unmolested. Hard to believe the rifle is over 100 years old. It drips history. Looking forward to shooting it! Thanks Ian for your bottomless pit of information.
Perfect timing, I enjoy listening to Ian’s content while commuting.
I saw it at 4:20AM in my time zone, dank stuff. My stuff isn't smokeless though 😉😂
@@maverick9708 smoking Marijuana lowers your iq
I almost get into wrecks looking at the beatiful wood grain stock
@@sethb1283 distracted driving Is far more dangerous than say smoking marijuana for example
@@sethb1283 so does lead exposure and I'm a idiot anyway. Ain't got nothing to lose
I inherited my grandfathers Indian SMLE MkIII* (sadly sporterized) recently. It's nice to learn a little more history about these rifles.
I used an Indian mk3 stock to replace my English sporter mk3*
When Ian is talking about the disc on the stock he is describing "Order of Battle" There is a whole section of military intelligence devoted to this.
Seems strange as the uniforms had information about a units identity.
I wonder if the army ever thought about putting fake information on the disc, so that the Germans would think that Britain had one hundred and twenty million soldiers all called Clive.
And it can get very esoteric, the story I like here is the Allies successfully working out Panther production numbers from gear box numbers on a handful of destroyed or captured examples. intelmsl.com/insights/history/intelligence-statistics-german-tank/
At least now I know what those were for
I love these developmental series you do, it’s very interesting to me to see the way a firearm changes based on the needs of the user in addition to the needs of the manufacturer. Your Bergmann series was awesome, hope to see more!
I have been staling the channel for info on the quillon for ages! Thank you kindly.
Always enjoy the detail in the information provided! The reasons for removing the stock disc were very interesting. Thanks for all you do..
Definitely enjoy this series of videos. I'm finding the evolution of the SMLE far more interesting than I would have thought.
No such thing as too many videos or stories on the Lee rifles. Still think they are the best! Thanks Ian!
Fully enjoyed this series. Thank you.
Wow. Was only just watching all your other SMLE videos not 2 days ago! And now I'm treated with a video on a MKIII*... The timing couldn't be better!!
As a Brit, keep the SMLE vids coming please!
I had one that was made in 1919 that was very similar to this. No volley sight, nor any of the other creature comforts. The sight however wasn't screwed into place. It was a fine rifle and I wish I never sold it. It still had the oiler in the buttplate.
Loved the series on the SMLE. Thank you Ian.
Your videos are a pleasure in times of quarantine...
The smle series has been awesome, thank you
Great series, really enjoyed it.
My first rifle when I turned 18 old enough for ownership. Still have it. One of my favorites today.
Last time I was this early FW still had a opening theme song
Forge World?
@@mattkelly6226 no, Free Willy
Amateur, now if you said "had the machine gun firing opening", you'd be on to something
I miss the old intro, the tune was so catchy
I miss that song. It gets you pumped up for the video!
A really interesting talk! Basically describing everything I spent a few years reversing, to bring my de-act 1914 MkIII back to her original condition. Windage sight, volley sights front and rear, cut off, button cocking piece, hollow ground rear sight ears and muzzle cap with stacking swivel attachment. The parts came from everywhere - including Canada, US and Australia. The most nerve wracking part was carving out the hand guard for the front and rear volleys. My wood was in pretty good condition (strangely the cut out for the magazine cut off was already there) but the receiver was much more rusted than that beauty you've got there. Thanks for that info, didn't realize the quillon was deleted before the war started!
This has been super interesting seeing all the incremental changes, some improvements some adaptations due to changing conditions!
Thanks, Ian. As always, fascinating and well detailed !
Ian sir i have loved these videos on the lee enfields....awesome 🍻
Always happy for more smle videos!
Loved it all Ian, thank you Gun Jesus. The Lee is a sort’ve complex rifle series to follow
I always learn something new about one of my favourite rifle with these videos.
Thank you for the whole series! It's enlightening to see how established designs continue to evolve.
I APPRECIATE guns that show honest wear and use, especially when it's historically significant. While there are no unblemished rack queens from the day, they have no character. Give me the scarred warrior any day!
Have you ever considered (probably more an inrange TV thing) doing a shooting video about Volly sight use ? Seems an interesting but relatively uncovered topic
It'd be an interesting filming challenge - you'd need a dozen or so people firing rifles at dusty sand some distance away, otherwise you'd have no idea of the impact point. Perhaps the artillery range that this channel sometimes uses might work.
@@AshleyPomeroy yeah,definitely be hard to pull off but the footage would be very interesting to see,there doesn't seem to be much out there on the subject
Have loved this series, thanks so much for all your hard work and effort, it's much appreciated!
Cheers and take care
I’m glad this channel exists
I found you through floatplane, such a good channel
Nice work man
Good video. When I get a license (I live in England) I will buy an SMLE as my first rifle. So I have really appreciated this series of videos thanks Ian.
Good luck with that.
All the shooters I used to know have given up in the face of constant and disruptive police checks, having to turn their home into an often unsightly fortress to satisfy the police that their gun(s) were safe from theft, and restrictions stringent enough to outweigh the pleasure gained from shooting.
Makes more sense as to why mine looks like this... I couldnt find anything as to why my #1 mk3* didnt have the cut off like other #1's. Thats good to know. I also have a #3 mk1*
The deletion of the stock disk for unit secrecy is almost certainly myth - the soldiers themselves were, of course, covered in buttons, badges and flashes that denoted their unit and formation. The stock disk deletion was almost certainly just due to economy and the fact that many rifles were being refurbished and reissued multiple times to different units. The final proof is that stock disks came back for the interwar period, and remained on most rifles into WW2. The cut-off became repurposed as a safety device, and was re-introduced onto all rifles with the fitting - these rifles had the "star" barred out and became MkIIIs again. The cut-off remained through the MkV and MkVI and onto the trials No4.The inter-war standard rifle for new production was a MkIII with cut-off but without volley sights (plus narrow piling swivel as on the No1 MkV and VI).
All the best Ian from Enfield, UK.
I love that it’s beat up it shows the rifle has history.
I believe the stock disk markings only indicate that it was issued to the 2/1st Battalion Cambridgeshire Regt, as British companies were alphabetical rather than numerical - the 2/1st never left Britain during the war.
I think you're right. They did duplicate battalions. Was the 2/1 a Territorial battalion?
@@jeffreyknickman5559 the whole Regiment was part of the Territorial Force, aka the TA aka the Army Reserves. There were 4 Battalions by 1916, but only the 1st Battalion was sent to France.
High time you took one of them to the Range or course again, Ian.
If you are into collecting the Enfield rifle as I, you should note how the WWI stock (forearm shown) is different from later models. The shape (contours) of the wood for the volley sight was retained even though the VS was dropped. Finding a WWI rifle that still has a WWI forearm is scarce as most were rebuilt after two World Wars with new wood. Ian, you should have mentioned this. PS: The muzzle cap's screw is loose.
Just got a mkIII* this has been a big help with tracing down what and where it's been
Thanks Ian, you have just given me the history of my rifle. My SN is a couple of hundred less and prefaced with a Q.
Very educating and nice listening. Thanks for the series. I actually got a bayonet exactly like the one with 1907 marking on the blade and an "Anderson" name on the other side, of which i am not sure from where it comes.
More likley S-anderson, should also have inspector and acceptance marks, the broad arrow and an X which shows the bend test side. 1907 then one or two numbers .month of manufactuer with a space and two futher numbers year of manufactuer.
All the cuts and dents add character. Like a grizzled war veteran with the scars to prove it.
I can remember using these for drill practice in the Army Cadets back in the late 70's early 80's.
great video. one thing you did forget to mention is that they stopped milling the indent on the sight wings on the mkIII* to streamline the production rather than save a few grams of weight.
I just picked up one of those, dated 1918, with bayonet. Fairly good shape, good bore. $250. That's a good deal for me. 😉👍
All these Enfields, I CANT HANDLE IT
- German army, Mons
Ian, thanks for this video. I’m inheriting my grandfather’s SMLE Mark III, I’m going to attempt a resto and un-sporterize it. Wish me luck!
Got a dispersal rifle from '42. Great hearing this content
I read an account about how many British infantry became experts at hip-firing their Enfield.
@Owen O'Neill and firing with the middle finger of their right hand, while keeping the bolt-handle gripped between thumb and fore-finger for faster cycling of the bolt.
@@therogers4432
Reality is they did the mad minute in WW1 but training of LE in WW2 onwards was very specific to using the index finger and you would of been grilled for deviating... Just like you would of been grilled and trained to fire with your right hand if you were left handed (Obviously this depends on the Commanding Officer). After WW1 the mad minute was used as a expectation of training... using your right hand index finger only. You were also trained to completely field strip, clean and reassemble your Lee Enfield in under a minute... whilst blind folded (Simulating night time battle conditions).
In other words, what you do out in the field is down to you... but in training, you will do the mad minute whilst holding your rifle correctly... So you learn the hard way first ;)
The British Army use this training still to this day on Cadets who still use the Lee Enfield (Very few if any now).
@@babalonkieI agree totally with everything you say, but official training also never covered firing a SMLE from the hip as the original comment referred-to...
I was an Army Cadet 1998-1990 who was priveliged to be trained on the SMLE No4 Mk1 and the Bren by some of the (now very old indeed, but intensely-passionate about sharing their hard-won knowledge...) very last Drill Instructors who had actualy served in WWII, and I feel that an awful lot of the training we received included their (very...) personal experience gained first-hand in Africa and the Far-East...
This included the middle-finger technique that I described above, and how to lie on one side (to remain in-cover) while urinating on a scorching-hot Bren barrel, while under heavy fire, to cool it down enough to be swapped-back into the Section's Bren as soon as the barrel in-use was creating too much radiant heat-haze to be aimed sufficiently accurately (even with the benefit of the offset-sights...), and to keep a stout hook-shaped stick or a heavy piece of leather tucked-into your webbing to charge the Bren when the wooden cocking-handle became so hot from the heat conducted from the bolt and receiver that it would blister your hand if you just grabbed it "as the Manual Of Arms and Basic Training dictated", which would put you out-of-the-fight and be considered Dereliction Of Duty, and therefore see you On A Charge if you survived the day's contact...
One in particular (Captain Fretwell, God Rest Him...), who was an absolutely huge (6'4" and probably 250-270lbs) and very jovial man normally, would visibly-harden, his voice would change to a savage bark, and he would literally get the 1000-yard-stare as he spoke of these things, remembering the terrible things that he had faced and the mates that he had lost, but could still make a 2" group at 300 yards every time with his personal Steyr 7.62mm target rifle using iron sights, and almost collapsed with joy and pride when I achieved a 3" group once, and only once, and declared that "his work was done" with me, which is one of my fondest memories and proudest moments of a very happy time in my life...
@@therogers4432 Was not a dig at you and yes you are right, you are not taught to fire a Lee Enfield from the Hip lol (Bayonet charging is different).
My old captain used to invite squaddies and fellow commissioned officers over to the range just to milk them from bets lol The CO's used to come up with a obstacle course (quite often Some weird shite), followed by a 1 Mile run and then followed by 10 shots down range... all whilst wearing NBC, Bergen and webbing. He always put his bets on me and i used to get half the winnings... Granted this range was only 100M (So no mad minute standards here)... but with my No.4... 1 Shot for zeroing... 9 shots always touching each other centre mass in rapid succession. At 100M not a massive feat, but hey, was fun and something to be proud of lol
One of the occasions, one of the CO's replaced my No.4 with a rifle that had a massive bolt going through the rear sighting ladder, permanently obstructing the sight lol (No doubt one of their "fun" toys)... i did not fair too well on that one but i still landed them on target whilst cracking up and everyone at the range having a laugh.
It makes me wonder how PC, Health & Safety and boring Cadets, TA and Fulltime must be nowadays. But hey, atleast i can tell people that i was professionally trained By the British Army in handling, maintaining and firing No.4 Lee Enfields... that alone brings a bit of pride. (We also got to mess around with BREN's and various other .303's as we were one of the last bases to still have them functioning)
I have found this short series on the Lee Enfield very interesting, enjoyable and informative. I know of at last one relative of mine who would have carried one of these in WW1
Like the rifle shown here he was also at the Somme though his weapon of choice was the Ordnance BL 60-pounder as he was in the Royal Garrison Artillery.
One of my Great Uncles would also have used one of these. L.G. Stockdale enlisted in 1914 and served throughout the war, earned a Distinguished Conduct Medal and left the Army with the rank of Company Sergeant Major. His three brothers and my Grandfather, Sydney James Carter, also served throughout the war but would not have carried arms as they enlisted in the RAMC. I never got to meet any of them but, armed or not, I am immensely proud of them all.
Do I even need to say it this time?
For the uninitiated....
So Many Lee Enfields!
Keep up the awesome work Ian, and don't forget the many de-militarized examples down here in Australia. A popular conversion was necking down to .257 to circumvent the (relatively short lived) ban on military-calibre ammunition.
Nice rifle and series.
A must for beginning collectors.
My smle mk3* is a ww2 frankenstein with spare parts from late and early models which they still had in stock during britains darkest hour.
Thank you , Ian .
Great video Ian 👍🏻🇬🇧
A truly impressive collection of Lee rifles
Interesting to see a rifle of the Cambs, my family have lived in this area for the last ~500 years (difficult to go further back) and relatives fought with the Cambs in both wars (several being captured in Singapore in WW2)
I used to like them because I thought they look cool now I love them because of their history.
I have an ishapore no.1 mk3* and it was arsenal refurbished but don’t know the date. When I cleaned it up and took the furniture off I noticed the barrel had been replaced. I then noticed a weird defect in the wood. Turns out it was a piece of a bullet jacket with the lead core imbedded under the barrel. The top hand guard is also not original, best I can gather is that at some point the rifle took a bullet to the barrel and had to be refurbished. Kind of cool if you ask me 😂
Hey Ian What's Up I Gotta Say I Absolutely Love The Lee Enfield SMLE MKIII* One Of The Best Bolt Action Rifles Of All Time Probably The Best Bolt Action Rifle Of WW1.
Love the Lee series, the one I own is this last one, with bayonet
I love the original cold rust blueing which was the old method of blueing these rifles.
Finally, my rifle! I have an Enfield 1916 III* a wire-wrap one that went through India postwar (I cut the wire off, it looks fine underneath, has "FA 5-40" stock disk.) Mine has the cut for the mag cutoff -- it's mostly behind the wood, but goes far enough back for the end to be visible. (Looking at it again, there's no * -- must be early '16, and they upgraded it in India without stamping the *.)
Regarding data analysis of markings, WW2 German tank numbers were estimated from component serial numbers.
this is my favourite 303. as an Australian.
Just because I see this mistake everywhere, it's 'quillon', not 'quillion'.
Pronounced like "quill-on"?
@@lolzman228 like key-yawn.
I had to rewatch to make sure I was understanding the issue you are speaking about and part refered to correctly.
While I appreciate the receiving the correct information, I think that it is a mistake without a distinction and that the majority of the watchers don't care.
But I'm also aware that if I had caught that mispronunciation, my typing finger would be moving as quick as it was capable of, to make the same post.
😄
It was worth a mention - thank you :-)
If I've told you once, I've told you a quillion times!
Neat, I think I have one of those Australian bayonets. Got it from a buddy who's was interested in such things, who passed away and in helping his mother clear out his stuff I ended up with it.
I know that the volley sights and windage adjustments are extravagant and unnecessary, and it makes so much sense to cut them from the rifle for a war, but... dammit, they're just so cool.
Well, didn't know my mark 3* was a first year run. That's great knowledge. Now to unsporterise it and get it back to military configuration.
Ahhh the endless SMLE variation....
Hey guys! Thanks for tuning into another video on Lee-Enfields dot com
(not complaining!)
Hi one error is that 2/1 Cambridgeshire Regiment was a battalion in its own right
But one of the 3 battalions if the regiment that didn't go to France.
Various versions of the Lee Enfield have taken many moose, bear and deer in Atlantic Canada. Beautiful rifles and I hope to own one some day soon. It would be crazy to come a cross the one my granddad used in WW2. He joined at 17 (barely 17) and headed over. While in the hospital in London he met my nana and the rest is history.
I own a SMLE No.1 Mk III* and it was made in Australia in 1917. Everything that he said was removed is correct on mines. But my SMLE is in better shape then his. When I take it out to the shooting range hear in Arizona, It get's a lot of attention from other shooters. It kick's like an Arizona mule. Love it. Thanks Ian for this great video.
I just picked up a 1916 one made in Britain for $250 but it's been turned into a sport rifle but barrel wasn't shortened so I'm thinking of buying the handguards, barrel sleeve and every piece of wood besides the stock since that wasn't changed
Last time I was this early she told all her friends
I have a Lithgow 1943 which is the same as the SMLE built after 1916-17 pattern. I just replaced the rear sight to shoot better with the M1907 rear sight. SMLEs are plenty accurate but the adjustable windage just makes me happy smacking steel gongs at 200 to 500 yards. In fact better than my M1903 because of the simpler sights using the "Pineapple" looking Vernier adjustable wheel for minor elevation change up or down. Did the same change on rear sights on my Indian L2A2 in 7.62mm NATO.
Wait go back! I want to be simple!
Return to musket
I can never hear too much about these. I find the decades spanning either side of 1900 to be fascinating.
Indeed, so many varieties of firearms designs were tried out around that time it is fascinating.
How do you release so much content? Not only that my quality content? I’m impressed
He works hard.
That particular rifle also has the Mk III cocking piece, that was also ultimately changed.
Yes, the cocking piece was changed not long after this rifle was made, to the style that looks like the one on the No.4. However, the old style was retained in LSA’s production, right to the end, I believe. They also turn up in some later Enfields, as they would use whatever was available, and there were some contractors making cocking pieces of both types. There are also transitional Mk. III’s that have the cut off, but no volley sights or marking disk. Even a few Mk. III* ‘s that have the wind gauge. The mid to late war SMLE’s are pretty much “anything goes, just get the bloody things to the front! “
The SMLE is my favorite Commonwealth rifle! Its a precise, hig capacity, relliable firearm!
I have a mk3* that has the magazine cutoff still, no volley sights though, it's a 1918 receiver, with the old cocking knob and sights. The unit disc is Arabic, and the trigger was lightened so it breaks at around a pound, a few field repairs done to the stock, very interesting piece.
The cut off was re-installed on some Mk3* action bodies that had been manufactured without them during the post-WW1 period, then they changed their mind again and finally deleted it completely. So it's entirely possible that yours had originally been manufactured wirhout, then had a major refurbishment before transfer to some other country.
Last time I was this early, I thought the war would be over by Christmas.
It’s Christmas, the war will never be over
I always find it fascinating that the most iconic of British rifles for over 50 years was based on an action designed by a Colonial.
The SMLE III* is like the Gazpacho of the Enfields. Ya know, that time he said during a 4th wall break, "Wait! You went too far, now ya gotta go back!"
I have a MkIII* sitting on top of my MoD bomb proof cabinet in my office ...1917 BSA I also have a bayonet dated Oct 09 with Edwardian crown. No quillion and an oil hole added....
Rifle: British
Video: American
Subtitles: Vietnamese
Me: Confused
I thought you're Hispanic...but, HOkay! 😁
Mr Worldwide
Hotel: Trivago
SMLE is the Ian gift that never ends
Love the smle, I have a 1916 and a 1942 with a 1907 stamped bayonet without hook and scabbard with leather belt hanger.
Picked one up about a week ago from 1917. Unfortunately it’s been bubbud about an inch past the barrel band, the woods gone, the endcap was removed, and the rear sight guard with it. But outside of that, it’s in excellent condition. The rear sight was replaced with that one that has windage at some point in the interwar period, and I’m fairly certain it saw both wars... I hope to restore it some day. The poor girl’s seen Hell two times over, she deserves to live her golden years in luxury.
I have a No 1 Mk 3* from 1917, don't have much in the way of details, save she was made in the UK, and eventually wound up in the US. Sure it's simplified, but I adore that rifle.