Restoring Sporterized Military Rifles for Fun and...Probably not Profit
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2020
- / forgottenweapons
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I get a fair number of questions about restoring sporterized rifles, so I figured I should address them in a stand-alone video...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
Can't believe he went to the effort of bringing all his books with him to Seattle
Needs to keep everyone confused on where he his.
All his books are hollow like the earth, so they're really not as heavy as you'd think.
It's the perfect cover
It's a green screen.
WA is surprisingly gun friendly. You would be surprised.
Sporterising old obsolete military rifles is really the same thing as when they used to use old Spitfires and Hurricanes as target practise for the new Vampire and Hunter jet fighters. At the time, who cares? It's only later when people regret those choices.
Yep... or even like modifying your current AK or AR
@@bigretardhalo AKs and ARs are currently in production, so you're not exactly taking away from anything significant. Plus you can mod AKs and ARs all day without permanent changes to any given part.
tell the guy with the sporter its worthless , buy it cheap and enjoy the fact you can shoot it without worrying about collector value
Really depends on the quality of the sproterise job. I have seen some that are works of art.
@wargent99 just buy an already sporterized rifle instead of defiling an original. If you're set on tinkering (I know that feeling) buy one that's either in really rough condition or modify a sporter
I would add that it’s also important to know exactly what you have before trying to restore it. My LGS showed me a Mosin once that the previous owner tried to “de-sporterize” by doing a bad job of trying to straighten the bolt handle, welding in screw holes on the receiver, and finishing over them. He didn’t realize the gun wasn’t sporterized; it was a sniper model that was missing it’s scope mount.
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Thats .. horrifying
😵
*demonic russian screaming*
Oof
Imagine the odds of having to replace a serialized part and end up getting the original part back
If you manage that, best go buy a lottery ticket.
Most small parts only have the last 2/3 digits, even if you find the original part there's no way to make sure they are actually the exact match or from another rifle with the same last few digits. It will be really cool though.
I bought a Turkish Mauser 4 years ago in relatively decent condition. Then 2 weeks ago, I'm working in a gunshop 800 miles from where I bought that Turkish Mauser, and this guy walks in with a bayonet and he doesn't know anything about it. I recognize it immediately as a Turkish bayonet because of the markings, I tell him what it's worth and that I'd be happy to buy it from him. I take it home and put it on my rifle that's been on my wall for years now, and then I noticed, the Bayonet was Serialized 9744, now that doesn't match the serial number on my gun, but it does match the serial number on the bolt. At some point in my rifle's history, the bolt was replaced with the bolt of another gun. And that bolt came from the same gun as the bayonet now on my rifle. I honestly thought that was interesting.
@@theduke7539 i dont think there is a link between the bayonets and the rifles. as bayonets are made by different companies then the guns. so they are serialised in the system of that company and not of the company where the guns themself are being made.
That asside, i think it is quiet funny (thinking about the odds) that you managed to find (by coincidence) a bayonet with a corresponding serial number to a part of your rifle :)
I think a lot of that will get simpler as the information age comes across. I could a totally see forums getting basically big spreadsheets for serialized parts exchange. I have a Mauser with bolt number x you have a Mauser with bolt number y let's trade bolts. I think most collectors would be willing to trade bolts with somebody to help them get their numbers matching. At least if they could see pictures of what they're getting in exchange.
I've restored sporterized rifles multiple times. My collection is Soviet/Combloc centric, so nothing absurdly rare, which completely kills any resale, however, I didn't restore them to make money or resell. It's more like rescuing an abandoned puppy or kitten. I plan on keeping them basically forever, and it was a great learning experience.
I bought an sks last November as a birthday gift to myself and sporterized it. But I've kept all the original parts, the stock and all that, haven't damaged it beyond shooting wear and tear. It's always bothered me that people buy a surplus firearm and just throw all the original bits away
I’ve actually just brought a Mosin nagant for that purpose, it’s a m38 that’s had the stock cut down, the receiver drilled and tapped for a scope mount, and the bolt has been cutoff and replaced with the ATI one. Other than that, no damage to the actual rifle itself. I’ve been searching for a m38 stock, but I can’t find any. The bolt is easy, there’s hundreds of them online, just having a difficult time getting a M38 stock.
@@TheDeafJeep The M44 stock can be used and would still be considered "correct" many M38 ride in a M44 stock. Either from a factory refurb or a late parts M38 being assembled after the beginning of M44 manufacturing. Once they decided on the folding bayonet, all short stocks were getting cut with the channel for it.
got a husqvarna m38 Monte Carlo stock 4x40 optic , it shoots like a dream , no interest in ruining it by "restoration" if I want on I'll go buy a m38 or 96 for 6or700.00 , lots of lees and k98s , don't even look at mosin if its over 200.00 don't let the hoarders raise the price of low quality high production firearms ie moisen nagants
I recently picked up a 91/30 for $25. How so cheap? The owner had "Fudded" the hell out of it, then forgot to clean it after firing corrosive ammo in it. But it's getting a second chance. I'm currently waiting to get my barrel back from having it threaded, as I'm going to build it in .45/70.
Alternate title: "How to De-Bubba a Rifle"
😂👍
Well I hate to burst your bubble.there would be very few military weapons that are original, unless they went from the factory right to a museum. As they go through life in the service parts are always being changed out normal wear and tear . Or upgrading per the ordance Corp .so bubba as you claim has been working on the rifles since they left the factory.
@@stevesalsman5184 there's a big difference between a replacement with a genuine part for wear, vs going full retard by chopping barrels/stock, spray painting and adding 20$ optics to look "cool".
@@stevesalsman5184 Hate to burst your bubble but, there’s a difference between sporterizing a rifle and replacing a part.
I've seen a lot of "bubbas" over the years but the ones that always bring me to tears are the Krag-Jorgenson's that have been hacked to gobbets.
work guns , folks had to make due with what they had , no shame its history as much as any
They were $4.95.
Got a Krag on the way sporterized, it was done tons of time ago but I wish someone had a full stock, I think it would be worth it but I have only found 1 for $500 just the wood, fuck it I got a nice sporter
I have a Krag that was sporterized by/for Sears early in the 1900s. It has been in this configuration far longer than it was ever a military service weapon and frankly is better in every way for it. It has the mystique and intrigue of the Krag's weird magazine system but benefits from a nicer stock and nicer sight system that is all antique. Krags are not guns that saw any serious military action in US service and I think its history as an affordable rifle for the working American of the early 1900s is important and worthwhile history. That gun put food on the table for the men who built our country.
@@theoneandonlypirate Agreed, plus a lot of sporter Krags were just put into what is essentially the US Cavalry carbine configuration, so they aren't exactly butchered like a lot of rifles are.
Ian: This is beyond any hope of recovery.
Mark Novak: Challenge accepted.
Pretty sure even Chuck Testa would choke on that one
Mark is a bubba
What in the heck was that rifle, anyway?
@@TheRealColBosch it would be the only $500k whatever the hell it is in the world. cost, not value.
My first gun was a Berthier carbine, missing the front band. Not even sporterized, just missing the 1 part. Took 2 years to find one, from a seller in France. Only found it/connected with him thanks to a forum. Other collectors time and again have been the best resource for me, but I do not enter into projects lightly now.
I just bought 1 for 100 bucks and I can find a difinitive price for it any idea what they are worth today?
Hughes Enterprises I found a very long bolt-action with Chinese markings on the receiver and NAM 68 carved into the stock at a pawn shop. Sadly, I didn't have $225. I suspect Grandpa Jones brought it back from the war, and one of his grandkids sold it for meth money. No clue what the hell it was, it looked a bit like an old Mannlicher.
I will forever wonder about that damn gun...
@@henryrodgers7386 Probably a Hanyang 88? (Chinese Gew 88 copy).
I mean it still shoots and works fine so do you really need that one part?
@@TheLegoboy44 When I was looking a couple of years ago, a decent one was going for $350-$450. You got a good deal.
I saw a sportorized SVT-40 once. Made me wanna cry
That's like using the good vodka in a mixed drink.
Now I want to cry, thanks :(
Ivan is not pleased.
Have one only change was the cheek piece added to the stock.. price was good enlough that I got it. had to get a gas key as well I guess they pulled it to make it a straight pull bolt action.. oh the Magazine is Finn Marked.
Mine was an Arisaka with the flower intact, goofy target grade iron sights cobbled on to it. They didnt do an awful job, but it was buggered for restoration and didnt look close enough to satisfy my ww2 collection wants.
I want one to fill out my WW2 collection, but I want the flower just to piss off ghost of Hirohito...
I forsee Ian's mailbox being Flooded with Ross 3's nose caps in the next couple of weeks.
Gentle trickle is my expectation.
Send one my way then
It's possible that was the whole point behind making this video.
As someone who has been doing gunsmithing since graduating high school, it's always amusing to see the variety of people with their variety of "valuable" guns thinking they can get away with a small amount of money and labor to fix someone else's work. The grass might be greener on the other side, but it's almost always more expensive to undo years of tweaks and "custom" work than it is to pass on the pawn shop find for a decently maintained example.
Yep! Tried it myself a few times and more trouble than it was worth. I still have a decent Norwegian Krag M-1912 short rifle someone turned into a "sporter" years gone. Surprisingly, it still has the original cleaning rod and nosecap. Fixing it would require a new correct stock, upper handguard, upperband/ swivel and a buttplate. Sadly, all that was probably on the gun when it was done over and were liklely just thrown away.
why dont you just get parts off an airsoft replica?
they are metal, real wood, 1:1 examples & the barrel can be just for looks like a mock suppressor
It's the same with all "collectables". Folks just don't understand, It ain't worth it.
I admit every time I see a sporterized Enfield I 1.get pissed, and 2.) wonder how to "save it." Twenty years ago the necessary parts were relatively easy and inexpensive to find from places ;like Springfield Sporters; fat chance nowadays. "Saving" "tanker Enfield" or a fake jungle carbine was futile in the first place, but even hunting rifles were beyond hope.
@@Eduardo_Espinoza Probably because these aren't authentic parts. Most of the metal is Zamak, a zinc alloy die casting, not anything close to original spec.
Ian: posts video on restoring milsurp rifles
Me: oh cool, maybe this will help find an original stock for that ross mk2 I'm looking at
Ian: so I've spent years refurbishing a ross mk2 and still haven't found all the parts
Me: eh, Lee- Enfield it'll be
He said it was actually a MK3.
@@musicmasters314 you're right, my bad but even at that parts for the mk2 are even harder to find than mk3 parts
From another comment, you might wanna look in to Ross Rifle Restorations from Alberta, Canada.
30 years from now "Oh damn this was sporterised then desporterised, mark it down."
yup
Hopefully people notice and don't get hosed. I feel bad for them, like the kid that paid $1,000 during the pandemic at my now ex-favorite LGS for a National Ordnance 1903a3 sold as a "Remington" because of the barrel used on it.
For your Ross: Ross Rifle Restoration is a company in Alberta. He does great work and reproduces stocks, along with much of the hardware, including the nose cap pieces you need.
I believe I just bought one of these..! :)
I’m waiting until he has barrels ready for sale so I can get my M1910 shootable again. He told me they are in the works..
I've recently got one restored by Ross rifle restoration new stock, barrel band, sight hood, you name it. I live within driving distance of him so I dropped off my action to get fitted. It won't be long before he can make entire rifles from reproduction parts. 😂
But what if he doesn't want a reproduction part?
@@musicmasters314 Exactly, many collectors want original parts, not reproductions.
Remember that "sporterized" Mauser 98 that was turned into a combination gun? That was incredibly cool.
I have a strange sporterized Gewehr 98, it's shortened to a Carbine length HOWEVER I think it was done by the Germans because it has the marks Kr 24 on the barrel and in 1924 they did take Gewehr 98 rifles and turn them into Standardmodell rifles. The previous owner was a veteran that brought it back and shortened the stock for hunting, I might get around to unsporterizing it but I doubt I'll find a Standardmodell stock so might use a Kar98k stock because as it turns out Gewehr 98s turned into Standardmodell rifles were modernized again to Kar98k rifles
"I'm going to sporterize my 63 split window corvette" said someone in the 60s. Yeap people did cut the split out.
“Proud” owner of a sporterized m1917. The poor thing is absolutely mutilated, they went so far as to mill the rabbit ear sights off and drill and tap it, twice because one set of holes was crooked. 🤦♂️
Brock McGonig yikes, I got lucky with mine all the Metal was intact asides from the missing nose cap and front sling swivels. Stock was cut down and had sport sling mounts added. Even though the Bubba left the rear sling swivel intact he added another one in front of it for no reason 😩 but she’s better now other then the wood I was able to find for the replacement stock doesn’t match at all. All three pieces are different shades.
I de-bubbaed an '03A3 and a 1917 but that was 40 years ago when parts were readily available. Not sure I'd try it today.
Donald Newcomb I found a sporterized 1903 at a pawn shop for $350. Luckily nobody drilled the receiver for a scope and it had the original sights. The only downside was somebody chromed the bolt and polished and blued the receiver/barrel. I found an original stock with all the small parts that somebody was selling with a cut receiver. It was a fun project sourcing all the parts
If gun Jesus can't find parts, you can't either.
My father in law gave me a 45-70 "Long Tom" Trapdoor Springfield that somebody had started to bubba-rize: the barrel & stock were both shortened by ~8-10" (no idea why). Luckily they had left enough barrel & stock to "restore" it to a carbine, so I did. This is another option: "restore" a sporter to some sort carbine.
A friend of mine has the action of an Arisaka that had the barrel cut off behind the front sight. We think there's enough barrel left to make it a carbine.
I bought a really poorly sportarized 1917 enfield cut down barrel off center threaded holes for a scope the works. I’m hoping to make it in to some kind of a trench carbine like C&Arsenal showed in thier video.
"Tanker" or paratrooper Trapdoor Springfields are rare
make it yours and use it , he probably got tired lugging that barrel through the woods , make what you have work for the job that needs doing
I’ve been wanting a Krag so badly but every single one I find is sporterizsd 😭
There, is plenty of krag in norway.
@@lockon1982 and most of them have been modified into target rifles. Most of the ones left unmodified are in shit condition- but there are still some nice ones out there.
the krag has a longer history as a hunting rifle than as a military rifle. Its the one gun i wouldn't mind owning sporterized
Keep an eye on GunsAmerica, I just got a NRA Carbine conversion for 450
I inherited 2 Krags 😀 both heavily sporterized 😭
I restored a Hakim recently. Some young punk (me) “sporterized” this rifle when they first hit the market in the 1980s . Then they were gone. It took me 30 years to find the parts I needed, which happened to be a parts rifle for $270 at a gun show. I needed the stock and hardware off that rife, and since the Hakim was also sentimental to me, gladly paid the man. It’s now back to its original configuration, and yes, I had learned from my mistake so many years ago.
3:25
That literally looks like its been buried under Passchendaele for a century.
I’m trying to figure out what that was lol. My best guess is a Carcano
Worked on a couple such projects myself with my dad. We knew at the time that it was unlikely to put any value back in the rifles, but most of them were just to get an 'intact' shooting example of a rifle for our own enjoyment, like the Swedish Mauser short rifle or US M1917 rifle we fixed up.
I have to say though, the most fun of these projects was actually taking a sporting rifle and configuring it into a "military" pattern. Back in the days when we could still get Saiga rifles from Russia, the first one dad picked up was a Saiga .308 with a 16" barrel. We kept it as it was for a number of years (though I absolutely hated the 'SVD' style stock it came with), but eventually made up our minds to make it more useful and comfortable. The end product looks almost exactly like an ordinary AK-74 derivative (aside from the lack of a muzzle brake and the heavy barrel) complete with Russian Red birch laminate furniture (thanks to Ironwood Designs), right up until you put one of the massive 20 round mags in it. It tends to get noticed on the range once we load it up and let it go. The blast and fireball it throws make it almost like a semi-auto M44. I tend to joke that we finally made that old Vietnam myth about the AK being able to use 7.62 NATO actually true.
I call this "remiliterizing"
I learned my lesson with trying to restore a US Model 1917 Eddystone. Found one sportorized with a cut down stock, missing nose cap and front sling swivel, and had sporter sling swivels drilled into the stock. Got the rifle for $180 picked up an original Eddystone made stock on eBay for I think like $150 and the front sling swivel from the same seller. I later found out about Numerich gun parts. And found they had almost everything else I’d need including the upper lower handguard. It wasn’t until I fully assembled the rifle I realized I made a mistake and forgot to order the other half of the upper Handguard. I found one on eBay for a quarter the price Numerich was asking... got it and got sent a “blonde” handguard that was so poorly mismatched to the rest of the wood and did require some sanding for a perfect fit. But I went with it and I honestly like it for the collection. I know it’s not perfect but the way I see it is it was damaged in the field and an armorer repaired it with parts from another rifle.
I've restored 2 no 1 smle's, a no 4 and a pattern 14. Expensive, fun and rewarding knowing you've done some good in this awesome passion of ours.
I’ve got a NO 4 I’m interested in restoring. Any tips for a new comer to this sort of thing?
@@Jonk_Jonk Paitence, and money. Tons of both.
So way back when I started getting into collecting I found this really interesting sporterized No. 5 Enfield at gun show. I knew enough to check the parts to make sure it was a true No. 5 and not a hacked down No. 4 and everything was right and matching serial numbers. The only thing that had been done to it was it didn't have an original magazine and a very skilled woodworker had contoured the stock thinning it down to make it more comfortable in the hand. So I bought it. I think I paid $450 thinking it wouldn't be that hard to find a No. 5 stock. I think I spent two years searching local gun shows and checking online. Occasionally I would find them online but the price for originals was more than I had paid for the gun and reproductions were almost always out of stock. Eventually I gave up and traded it away. Literally, the very next gun show I went to I found a guy who had a reproduction stock set for $50. I'm still sad I gave up just a little too soon and could have had that nice No. 5 in my collection.
I have some #5s , you looking
why not just use it , sounds like it was well tuned
Thats why you never sell your guns. :P
Dude, I have a No.1 Mk1 that's missing all the Mk1 specific stuff besides the sights. I feel the pain.
This video was created so Ian could DL advertise he wants a Ross end cap, and dissuade others from restoring rifles, therefore leaving the lion share of parts for himself to buy.
Very clever, gun jeebus... but not very god-like
Danial Yousaf yay, for he is a jealous god. Now, brother, open your bible to the Book of Armaments
I found him the stock and have been looking for the Ross bayo lug for a couple years now. I have a guy who occasionally sets up at one small annual gunshow who maybe has them, but it hasn't been held in a while.
Red Ram Anybody in a position to compete with someone like Ian doesn't need this video to do it. Anybody with the consuming passion to even start to become that knowledgeable isn't going to be discouraged by the video. His vids are very useful in any event; the subscriber count proves that. I gained useful knowledge from this video. If his years of work, devotion, and contribution to the shooting community help him get some silly part, what's wrong with that?
Rick Sunderland if I could post memes on here, it’d include the words “the joke” flying over your head
Red Ram some people are so smart they’ve gone full circle and have become idiots.
Personally I like the gif from the Superman movie where he looks from one side to the other and the word “joke” floats overhead 😂🤣
I've got an 1879 Reichsrevolver I've been trying to source an axis pin and retainer screw for for years now. Parts on those things are basically impossible to find.
I've also been debating about taking it in to have it reblued at some point. Normally I wouldn't consider refinishing an antique like that, but whoever owned it before me stripped the darn thing with a wire brush or steel wool or something, so the historical value is already compromised.
Those are probably simple parts for a gunsmith or machinist to make from scratch. Might even do a slightly oversize cylinder axle pin to account for any wear, after measuring the cylinder of course.
You might just want to have new ones manufactured. Probably cheaper to get a machinist to do it than find authentic parts.
We have a ton of those sporterized guns over here, love from the Balkans!❤️
Picked up a drilled and tapped o3a3 for a VERY good price. after looking at options to close the 2 holes I decided to simply put in black set screws just below flush, no its not perfect, but with a correct rear sight it is is a good looking 03a3 *every thing else is correct) they had used the same sight base for the 03a4 to make it a fake sniper of sorts
Oh and remember Bubba Never sleeps!
bet it would be nice with the scope for actual use in real life
Seeing old sporterized rifles is sad, but seeing people in the 21st century still do it is asinine.
People collectively don't do it anymore like when the guns cost a fraction of what a sporting goods store would whack for a Remington or a Winchester. Why would you sporterize a $1,000+ rifle when you can hop down to Walmart for a $300 Savage?
And on the flip side, I'd rather have a well-done, classic sporter from the 1950s or 1960s than a well-done, classic sporter "converted" back to a pseudo-original condition by slapping eBay parts on it. The sporter at least tells a story of its eral. The cobbled-together messes I see people passing off as original are sad at best and fraud at worst.
I remember once seeing a listing online for a completely sporterized M1941 Johnson rifle. Some guy had made a bunch of cuts to it and replaced all the wood with polymer.
My father had a sporterized Mas 36, which he loved. It had a firing pin which was broken, repaired, and rebroken for many years. Somehow, he managed to get it into an armory somewhere and they machined a new firing pin for it. I do not believe it has been fired since then, and that has been many, many years now. I still have it in my collection just for the memories. That is the real value of this piece. I wish I could have it in an old (50's - 60's type) gun cabinet to display - but not in today's world! Alas, it is encased in steel and concrete, hidden away from everyone but me.
I just had this conversation with a young man at work. Nothing ever changes.
Sporterizing: The art of spending $800 on a $300 gun to make a gun worth $200.
More like the art of saving $250 by buying a $10 rifle and fixing it up at your $1 an hour minimum wage.
I was literally trying to restore my sporterized enfield not two days ago
Couldn’t be more perfect timing.
My dad had a 1903 Springfield that had been drilled and tapped and the stock cut down. What we did was put an original stock back on it, and put a WW2 period mount and weaver K4 scope on it. Wasn’t correct, but was a rad retro sniper-ish rifle. Collector value was gone, but it was super cool.
I've loved your channel for years, and I get to watch it with my son now! He is only an infant, but I'm starting him off strong. Thanks for all the great content whether we're watching, napping, feeding or changing some diapes.
I would argue that ''non matching'', ''drilled & tapped'', ''cut down'' or what ever, it's still collectible just on a lower budget. For example I have a 1911 from 1919 without any pitting or wear I could never afford that if some idiot hadnt tried to nickel plate it.
Not really, save for the on-matching part if it's still in military configuration. And where I'm at sporterized rifles aren't cheap either.
what i decided was, rather than "un-sporterizing" mine, i'm going to period sporterize it.
a resto-mod in gun terms
If it’s already sporterized beyond restoration might as well make it nicely sporterized
Hey I just wanted to say, how thankful I am that you're posting content so often, its nice to have to look forward to. Thank you thank you.
I bought an all matching SMLE made in 1917, I was so excited! However when it arrived I discovered the seller was less than honest about the condition of the bore, only saying it was "a bit dark." Turns out it was completely shot out from corrosive ammo. So I looked around and lucked out to see Sarco had just found a large supply of original, unissued factory barrels for the SMLE.
Needless to say I replaced the barrel and the rifle was back to where it should be. Thinking of turning the older shot out barrel into a cane of some sort. Guess I lucked out on finding a rare part!
Yep this happened to me with my Enfield. Put way to much money into it but I had a lot of fun
The more I hear about "sporterized" rifles...the more it reminds me of pimped up/street race-spec race cars...
I picked up a sporterized M94 swedish Mauser carbine. Made by mauser in 1895, it was missing the muzzle cap, handguard. The stock had a piece of wood added to create a pistol grip. The sling attachment in the buttstock was plugged with wood. So I decided to get a S&K rear sight base scope mount. And I put a long eye relief 1-5x scope on her. It still drives tacks to this day.
I love that you used both the Enfield No.4 and Bertheir as the what is easy and what isn't in terms of restoration. I just finished up a Savage No.4 Mk.1* that had the wood cut down and was missing the barrel bands, etc. All Savage marked parts (including NOS replacement wood) fairly easy at a price that wasn't too bad. The Berthier M.16 I have on the other hand, I waited too long to buy a replacement stock from Liberty Tree and they sold out. Now it's non-stop searching auction sites to find one. Both great examples of reasonable and unreasonable projects.
Watched a guy speed big money 💰 on a Mauser, thought it was a rare sniper. After checking he found out it was a clone.
Thank you , Ian .
My first deer rifle was a Swedish mauser in 6.5×55. Was a beautiful well done super accurate gun. Was stolen from me in Miami in the early eighties.
Iain just have to say I'm so very impressed with your library of firearms literature. I thought your gun collection was impressive but the fullness of that shelving is next level! Well done sir, I tip my cap.
Ayy great idea for a video! Glad to see it so early, and thanks for keeping uploads so consistent through everything going on Ian
EDIT: what was the interesting receiver mark on that rusted-up rifle?
British-made Chassepot contract.
I wasn't sure you could use "British" and "Chassepot" in the same sentence...
@CIA BETA Wing Probably Potts & Hunt. Recall that during the Franco Prussian war the French were buying anything that went bang, lots of weird stuff showed up, in low numbers and thus is obscure nowadays.
Also, if weird British shennanigans with Chassepots are of interest, look up the Kynoch Patent Musket. Because the world totally needs Chassepots converted to 11x60 Mauser, in the 1880s.
This is clearly Seattle
No he’s in Arizona
@@_tertle3892 r/woooosh
ua-cam.com/video/Mm53fNJjmII/v-deo.html
@@vojtechtax9723 This isn't reddit. Stop, get help.
The third gun I got was a sporterized Springfield 1903 that was transferred to me by a family friend. The person who owned it before him was the one who sporterized it, and he thankfully didn't do too much but I still had to put some work into it.
He replaced the barrel with a sporter barrel that lacked inserts for the front sight and rear sight collar. I purchased a new barrel, but it turned out the threading was different on it since it was a WWII era barrel and the receiver was from WWI. I took it to a gunsmith who managed to adjust the threading on the barrel.
The receiver was drilled and tapped for a scope, which is unfortunate, but I don't intend to resell it and it still shoots perfectly fine. Thankfully, the stock was left in tack aside from some general wear and tear older rifles get, especially if they've seen combat. The moral of the story is, please don't sporterize classic rifles.
I restored my 1918 smle no1 mk3. didn't cost too much, totally worth it. luckily the barrel was not cut. now i'm waiting on am m1 carbine, have a new stock, will probably need the metal. i enjoy this
Ian Johnson I was saving up to buy a 1917 SMLE that had showed up at a flea market here in Virginia for a few months, he wanted $150 for it. Was over all decent shape. Sadly they put in the private weapon sale ban, but actually before that he found out he had sold a gun to felon by accident, he had tried to prevent that. But they confiscated all his guns. Found out later they chopped that Enfield up. And it had a number matching mag and bolt! I should have just hopped on it sooner. This was about 5 months ago. I regret not saving that rifle from being cut up....
It’s always strange to me to see so many sporterized SMLE’s, since I can’t imagine they would shoot well at all without their full stocks and springs that enable its light barrel to shoot straight...
I have this image of myself buying a sporterized rifle somewhere and it would be a lot like picking a wand in the harry potter movie..it chooses the user.
I hope my familiar rifle is a mg42.
1909 Argentine Mauser rebored to .30-06 Just a beauty.
Yep........I rebuilt a Japanese Type 38 and a Type 99. Took weeks of searching for the right parts and when I was done I had more money sunk into the parts than it would have cost just to buy a complete rifle. It was fun and satisfying, but Ian's wisdom rings true.
I began building my British Enfield collection back when surplus C&R guns got the renewed OK to be imported. I oft bought five or more U-Fix-Ems from Century Arms. MKIIIs & No. 4s, $25@. I also had easy availability of parts then. "Aw, the old days are gone forever." Some, like myself, enjoy working on and fixing the old surplus guns. It wasn't long before I had boxes of parts and I soon found myself buying up those forlorn and neglected old sporters knowing that I had enough parts at home to do the job. The years passed and so climbed the prices making my restorations worth a lot more. The very first item to get hard to get was MKIII forearms. I soon had to pass on Smellys that had the forearm shortened. I too would pass over cut off barrels. I have to mention that a few times I passed on a sporter that in hindsight, I should have bought. Rarely, but has happened that you might find a sporter that has some rare original parts that are desirable to collectors so you have to keep a sharp eye open. By the time that I had dozens of Enfields I found myself having to pickup and at least look at everyone that I came across. Is this a year or make that I did not have, I'd ask myself. I had occasion to purchase at the going rate an Enfield .303 that had that desirable part on it even though it was not as that rifle came from the factory. Enfields, as in US martial arms, have often gone through government rebuilds. The armorers, not being collectors, care not about putting on the correct original part. To them a part is a part.
I got screamed at by an old man at a gun show a few years ago because when I saw his horribly butchered sporterized Krag rifle I told my buddy “this used to be a krag” he went off on me explaining how people “improved” surplus rifles for modern day use
Should've told his old ass that he still couldn't win Vietnam with it...
Look carefully, you’ll see the space needle in the background.
Thank you . I have resorted 5 military arms in my collection colt 1911 & a Springfield 1903 . Where the ones I had fun doing & a headache too .
I made this mistake with a Mosin Nagant m44 carbine. It has taken me 3 years to get a rear sight and I still cannot find a stock for it. The rear sight I recently bought came with no leaf spring, so I sourced one of those as well. Took it to a gunsmith to have sight reinstalled, and he didn't put the leaf spring in, so now I'm back to no leaf spring and no stock haha.
Have a lee enfield that I bought before I knew better that was sporterized. I would love to return it back too it’s original military glory but haven’t been able to justify buying the new stock and rear sight I need.
Sporterizing is the art of spending $500 on a $300 rifle and making it worth $150.
I KNO WUT ITS WORTH
Well, I do understand when someone ads the mount for a scope, maybe threads the muzzle so that you can mount a suppressor and replaces the butt with a more ergonomic one.
It's a rabbit hole for sure. It took me 7 years to find the parts for a Mauser 1893 7x57. It took 3 trys to find a stock that actually fit correctly because they removed too much material around the action and floorplate. But she shoots cloverleaf groups with boring regularity now. It was definitely worth the effort to bring it back to the land of the living.
My grandpa brought a bunch of guns home after working at the proving grounds and then working as basically a gunsmith for Patton's 3rd during WWII. One was a Czech-made German Mountain troop Mauser (G33/40). He turned it into a deer rifle. He did great work but it still makes me want to cry every time I see it.
I wonder if Ian has attempted a restoration and many of the tips here are from learning hard lessons.
It's interesting that a hunting rifle in the US means "chop half the stock off" while here in central Europe, a classic hunting rifle has a full stock. It's not a hard rule and especially newer production guns are often closer to the US rifles.
I guess it's a consequence of the more traditional style of hunting here. You also usually don't have to carry the rifle too far.
To fill holes without welding.
Get a length of suitable threaded brass rod .
Clean the threads in the hold with brake cleaner or similar.
Screw the rod to the bottom of the hole and mark the length.
Remove the rod then file it down around it’s circumference until it is almost cut through.
Insert the rod and tighten until the excess snaps off.
With a nail punch or similar gently tap the surface of the brass rod until it is smooth and flush with the surface.
This will look like a factory pin installed when done.
You can use steel rod but it will be harder to finish without sanding.
I inherited a 98K receiver from my grandfather by way of my father. A wartime bring back, it was already mismatched before he started to sporterize it, the bolt is straight handled. He never completed the project mostly because the Remington 721 came out and even with his metal working skills he couldn't match that for less money. I didn't want it to rust away to nothing so I had it completed, but I didn't want to make any further changes to the metal. The bolt handle is still straight, and I went with a long eye relief scope mounted to the non-original barrel.
Sporterizing sounds a lot like Bubbaing.
Because it's the same thing
The stocking up on the enfield is pretty complicated though, after restoring it it probably wouldn't shoot well unless u really know what you're doing
I'm a gunsmith and I've ended up "sporterizing" a few of my personal WWII bolt guns over the years. An Enfield mk4 I restocked and made a scope mount for but I have all the original parts and can restore it back to orginial in 10 min no permanent modifications outside of just cleaned up the original trigger. Another build was on a mosin 91/30 and ended up cutting down the barrel because the last 8 inches of barrel were so horribly pitted that rifle had a 2ft shot group at 100yds from a rifle vise. I look at that transformation as I turned it into something that could be used safely again and after the cut and recrown it has nice tight groups now and you know where the round is gonna hit past 100yds.
The other pitfall in restoring a sporterized rifle is the rifle is 'restored', it is not original. Some collectors put great importance on this issue. Probably for my purposes (educational display) I would buy one, but not for an 'original' price. If presented for sale as original, such an item is fake.
4:15 the 'wreck'. I agree that rifle cannot be restored (absent Star Trek replicator technology, and then one has to know what is desired) but might be made shootable again. Ian was interested in a receiver mark, I am curious about the split receiver. But I have enough projects.
9:00 I have a Ross (something or other) in .30 British. It fires, but has been fiddled; the rear sight is gone. Not to be found, yet.
So who else clicked on this expecting a rundown of taking thumbhole stocks off AKs?
That's not so common, locally. Much more often I see Arisakas.
I even saw an 03 Springfield that had been put into professional-made Mannlicher-style stock. Honestly, that was one I wouldn't change.
@@lairdcummings9092 The modern hunting rifle is directly derived from sporterised Mausers and their copies, so in a way those are historical artifacts in their own right.
In 20 years people will be looking for thumbhole stocks to put AKs back to their original as imported condition and bitching about all the "bubbas" who tacticalized them.
@@CCW1911 heh.
Good point.
@@CCW1911 ha, I was just doing that with one of those Saiga hunters I just got from a country guy in a trade. Cursing the whole time I was pulling off a heavily glued on (?????) Tapco stock.
I think the scientific term in this case is "for shits and giggles"
My first experience on a full power rifle was a sporterized Mauser; stock was entirely replaced, barrel was cut down to 20" *and* fluted, and it had a 24x scope mounted to it. The whole thing was purchased for about $200, (which we bought mostly because it came with the scope, though the sporterizing looks like it was done by a professional gunsmith, so it's not too bad if you actually intended to use it as a hinting rifle.) The gun weighed probably less than 5lbs, and kicked like a horse. My initial reaction to it was, "holy hell, infantry used this thing to shoot regularly?"
Then about a year later we got a Model 1944 Mosin in original condition (mostly for the spiked bayonet,) and the difference in recoil was profound; I could shoot that thing all day, and it made a great plinker at 50yrds.
I bought a sporterised P14 with full length barrel, and found a complete DP stock kit on line. Sure, the stock has a whole drilled through it at the receiver - but I wanted the rifle to shoot "service condition" style, so it did the trick for me at a price I could afford. The other rifle I "restored" was a 1916 SMLE, a gentleman in Northern Canada was making replacement stock parts, so I jumped on them. Enjoyed both projects, and so I now have two service rifles I can shoot competition with - total cost about $800 - less than either one in original condition. Also I now know a lot more about bedding and accurising these guns.
People are taking matching Arisakas and parting them out on Ebay
That goes for anything. A company buys 8/10 running antique tractors and does the same. Will even sell bags of bolts when the rest is gone
THAT is sinfull.
In Classy Terms: "Sporterized"
In Layman's Terms: "Bubba'd"
I’m a student at yavapai gunsmithing and I’ll tell you right now restoring a sporterized k98k has been my most laborious and favorite project.
I bought a sporterized Carcano M 38 that had a modified stock and some extra hardware including bayonet mount, etc. Used intact stock was inexpensive, as was replacement hardware. The firearm was to be a replica Kennedy Killer but the scope and mount cost easily twice what I had in the rifle at this point. So now it's a shooter. With proper diameter bullets, it's as accurate as any other military bolt gun. Certainly accurate enough for what Oswald is alleged to have done. Or for hunting.
Inwas gonna try this with a K31 that was put into a wrong stock.
There is a new production modern chassis for the K31. It is not at all cheap, but if you HAVE an action...
Get an original and boom
Good luck finding a stock. I have a K-31 that I need a stock for. No luck.
@@tomminton5512 easy to find but the shipping fee will kill you. part are available mostly in Europe. Look at naturabuy.fr for example
@@PapaSchultz74 Thanks. No luck at that site, do you know of any other European sources? Thanks again.
20 minutes old, over 5k 'Likes.'
Something right in this world.
I've seen some very nice 'sporterized' weapons; they're the exception, though. Generally, they look like hell, no utility added, and often much utility taken away, along with any beauty that had been present.
A friend put a new stock on his mosin and i actually love it
@@thedude7726 it can be done.
Saw a numbers-matching, with a nice crisp Mum and dust cover, Arisaka in a lovely gloss stock with ebony end cap on the fore end of the stock. The beauty of it was, other than the drill & tap for the scope, nothing else had been done to the rifle; sights still present, bolt left unmolested, dust cover left in place...
Oh, the 'drill and tap' job was a shame, but the overall effect was very easy on the eyes.
@@thedude7726 It makes a ton of sense to modify a Mosin. They're common as ticks and will never be valuable. Might as well make the own you own as useful as you can.
I found that 1903s and 03A3s are the easiest to put back into military configuration, as long as the barrels were not butchered. I returned two to military condition for minimal cost. I returned a Carl Gustaf M94 carbine back to its regular configuration, but it still has a drilled and tapped receiver and the bolt has a cut from when they made room for the scope. Even though the bolt is already bent from the factory, Bubba just had to get out the grinder. It's still a nice gun and has low recoil for a light, short rifle firing 6.5x55 Swede. I bought a dirt cheap Spanish Mauser that was mostly sporterised, so I finished the job. They cut the barrel and welded on a new handle for the bolt, so it is not salvageable.
Numrich and LTC have saved my butt more times than I can count, though Numrich seems to be light on parts as of late. Half the time I'm not even doing resto work, I'm just fixing the broken shit that I got at auction.
My brother and I have restored two M1917 rifles. It's a fairly easy task these days, especially since repro stocks are now available (both in compressed hardwood and semi-inletted unfinished walnut). The metal bits are what are really the hard to find stuff now. We both broke even when they sold.
Generally, you can get pretty lucky with M1917s; since it's such a pain in the ass to have had the rear sight ground off, you can find sporters with intact sights fairly readily. For examples that have just been destroyed and potentially had the barrels shortened and whatnot, either buy it to strip for parts for you or others, or just make it into an actually tasteful sporter. Between Anvil's videos and Midway USA's various series on this, you can make a pretty great rifle for yourself. Mind you, you're never going to get more than $300 for the thing if you resell, but it's a worthwhile endeavor to put a little bit of class back into the world.
Can someone explain me the meme of ian being is Seattle?
But have you managed to find any Bertier carbine front sights in Seattle?
This popped up as a random recommendation, but I feel I should say that I got lucky with my project. Through the death of a family member I wound up with an M1917 "American Enfield" Rifle. Now before, I hadn't really considered owning a bolt action rifle, but I didn't exactly disparage them either. While we had maybe a couple firearms, the first ones that I had actually bought new for myself were a stainless steel full sized "Mil-Spec" M1911 A1 from Springfield Armory, and an M1A Scout with the shorter barrel because "Muh M14." While I had wound up with an FN49 in 7mm Mauser as well as a couple of shotguns that had been hiding elsewhere, I didn't initially notice much that was special about the rifle. It had had ALL of the original furniture removed and replaced by a single, tacky 1950s hunting stock. You know, end of it is black with a white stripe, blonde wood, plastic buttplate. I think I figured out it was interesting though when I read the stamp on the receiver, and started digging into the history of the rifle. When I discovered what it was, I welcomed it into my life with open arms and made it my immediate goal to restore it. I found out that these rifles had wound up as surplus after two World Wars and a barrel replacement in the midst of the second. I also discovered that, unlike most of them that got sold off as surplus, this one still had the original ears AND the flip-up sight for range too. It was completely un-sporterized in terms of metal parts, and so all I needed were the brackets, stock and shrouds, magazine well (I had the spring and its follower for some reason) and buttplate. I got these, had my dad help me tap some holes for the buttplate screws and after putting it all together, it looks gorgeous. I do have one more ask for it though; if you or anyone else here could drop me a line on an M1917 bayonet I would greatly appreciate it. I already have one for the FN49.
I recently bought a de-sporterized Mk3 Ross, and I love it :)
Love the shirt
You’re right he isn’t in Seattle. He’s in the back room of the Tomboy Outback Steakhouse on his way to Seattle.
Really excited my mosin has all the original pieces. All serial numbers match
Funny you madenthis video. I just finished a pretty intensive restoration on a chilean 1895 7mm mauser. It was sporterized with a shortened barrel. However, the barrel was actually very close to a chilean short rifle variant mauser. so i bought a new stock with all the metal, and chopped the front of the stock off. I then copied all of the intricate woodwork on the front of the stock to accept the nose cap and front band/bayonet lug. Turned out ok aside from some poorly drilled holes and some file marks, but from a distance its a pretty slick chilean "short rifle".
You can say what you will about Mosins, but I can't imagine having such a pathological hatred of a firearm to be okay with what people do to sporterize them.
I do all kinds of things to them not because I hate them but because they can be bought for $90.
@@buckbundy8642 maybe back in 2010 when they were still being imported...
@@buckbundy8642 you show me where I can buy a mosin for 90 bucks. Please. Please show me, I want one but I'm not paying real rifle money for one. haha
Ryan Bond our local surplus shop sells M44s at $89.99. Well, in March they were. I don’t know about now with all the fu€ktards running around.
Victor Sullivan you just have to know where to go.
Everybody send me their drilled and tapped milsurp guns... they have no value.. i want them..
Hey Ian, I would love if you could make a video, or point me in the direction, of how wood stocks are made. going over things like what kind of woods and build techniques as well as why certain features/ergonomic decisions are popular on military rifles vs civilian rifles (like the forestock that gets chopped on sporterized guns), i think this is a large part of vintage gun design that has been largely ignored on your channel and I'm definitely interested in learning about it
I got an Enfield with that is in very good condition. I bought it from a coworker for $275, who says it's a No.4 Mk2, and made in 1946, but it needs a top and bottom front stock and barrel band. Because it was made post-WWII, it's in very good condition with solid rifling and the stock is really pretty.