This explanation is excellent but so densely summarised in this video - more than usual it deserves a longer and detailed documentary. I know that reading is best, but proper investigations like this in video form are so rare.
Very helpful analysis of subtle distinctions too often overlooked. My sister is Greek Orthodox and I am thinking of some of these points in regard to modern Greek religious practice. Thank you.
@@Keimelia It's the depictions of "Virgin Mary of X City". They have their sanctuaries in said cities. They are, of course, more significant than other depictions in and outside of the sanctuary. People go on pilgrimages to these places and, of course, some of them bring depictions along with them. These depictions gain significance through the pilgrimage. They can be given as votives at the sanctuary or taken back, as a sort of piece of the sanctuary. Then there are the more important votives, like a crown, robe or lewel that's supposed to go onto the painting. There might be hundreds of tiny votives composing the robe, for example. They're not that important when they're there, just a way of showing gratitude or supplication, but if one of those elements was taken elsewhere, of course it would be more important. "It's part of her dress, of course it's important!" I think it would even be officially considered a reliquary of a 3rd degree. And then there's the fact that the paintings go on pilgrimages themselves. They tour the country and are greeted with honour and celebrated. And of course it's treated like the presence of the depicted "deity", "it's the Mary of X City, she did Y miracle in year Z!" And they are treated like separate entities, despite everyone denying it. Every significant painting has a sanctuary, a story of miracles behind it, a specific way of worshipping it... The Mary of A City is somehow different than Mary of B City and nobody can say how, only that they have different paintings. And nobody seems to understand the question of "what/who is Mary of A City?" The atheists will say it's a painting, the Christians will look confused and ask "what do you mean?"
It’s also very common in India/Nepal where people and objects are paraded around as representative of the diety as well as the many objects related to the processions. Lots of clues remain today that show how the ancient Greeks and others of the same time practiced religion then
Interesting subject. Many Christians still worship sculptures of religious characters, and many of these artifacts are said to be miracle workers. They are not just representations of religious characters. They are endowed with their very own holy spirit. It's interesting, though, that Islam completely turned away from worshipping images! It's not even allowed to produce them in the first place.
Enjoying this channel and am currently reading "daidalos and origins of greek art" I am interested in the influence of the near east on Aegean culture in the bronze and iron age. What's the interaction of Canaan with Aegean and subsequently the Phoenicians? Intriguing stuff. Can't wait for your next video.
Great book and definitely where I would look for that question. The linguistic angle (the term diadalos) and the art historical angle (formal similarities between NE and Greek art in the Iron Age) both fascinating. Thank you for watching!
This explanation is excellent but so densely summarised in this video - more than usual it deserves a longer and detailed documentary. I know that reading is best, but proper investigations like this in video form are so rare.
Very helpful analysis of subtle distinctions too often overlooked. My sister is Greek Orthodox and I am thinking of some of these points in regard to modern Greek religious practice. Thank you.
I'm really glad you enjoyed it
This hits uncomfortably close to home. What you describe is basically how people in my Catholic-dominated country treat paintings of the Virgin Mary.
Very interesting comparison
@@Keimelia It's the depictions of "Virgin Mary of X City". They have their sanctuaries in said cities. They are, of course, more significant than other depictions in and outside of the sanctuary. People go on pilgrimages to these places and, of course, some of them bring depictions along with them. These depictions gain significance through the pilgrimage. They can be given as votives at the sanctuary or taken back, as a sort of piece of the sanctuary.
Then there are the more important votives, like a crown, robe or lewel that's supposed to go onto the painting. There might be hundreds of tiny votives composing the robe, for example. They're not that important when they're there, just a way of showing gratitude or supplication, but if one of those elements was taken elsewhere, of course it would be more important. "It's part of her dress, of course it's important!" I think it would even be officially considered a reliquary of a 3rd degree.
And then there's the fact that the paintings go on pilgrimages themselves. They tour the country and are greeted with honour and celebrated. And of course it's treated like the presence of the depicted "deity", "it's the Mary of X City, she did Y miracle in year Z!"
And they are treated like separate entities, despite everyone denying it. Every significant painting has a sanctuary, a story of miracles behind it, a specific way of worshipping it... The Mary of A City is somehow different than Mary of B City and nobody can say how, only that they have different paintings.
And nobody seems to understand the question of "what/who is Mary of A City?" The atheists will say it's a painting, the Christians will look confused and ask "what do you mean?"
It’s also very common in India/Nepal where people and objects are paraded around as representative of the diety as well as the many objects related to the processions.
Lots of clues remain today that show how the ancient Greeks and others of the same time practiced religion then
Fascinating! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Excellent work. Keep it up
Interesting subject. Many Christians still worship sculptures of religious characters, and many of these artifacts are said to be miracle workers. They are not just representations of religious characters. They are endowed with their very own holy spirit.
It's interesting, though, that Islam completely turned away from worshipping images! It's not even allowed to produce them in the first place.
Even today Catholics carry statues of saints and especially Our Lady is processions. And pray to statues both in church and at home.
Enjoying this channel and am currently reading "daidalos and origins of greek art" I am interested in the influence of the near east on Aegean culture in the bronze and iron age. What's the interaction of Canaan with Aegean and subsequently the Phoenicians? Intriguing stuff. Can't wait for your next video.
Great book and definitely where I would look for that question. The linguistic angle (the term diadalos) and the art historical angle (formal similarities between NE and Greek art in the Iron Age) both fascinating. Thank you for watching!
Thanks!
The bigger they are, the more traffic cones they get put on their head.