Who were the Minoans? Europe's most bizarre civilization (Extended Version)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Who were the Minoans? EXTENDED VERSION
The First Great European Civilization based on the island of Crete.
Link to video I made on the Philistines
• Who were the Philistin...
Link to my video on the Mycenaeans
• Who were the Mycenaean...
Video on what was life like after the bronze age collapse
• What was life like aft...
This video is sponsored by my patrons over on Patreon
/ epimetheus1776
Imagine we finally decipher a Linear A tablet and it's just the Minoan version of one of those Roman graffiti walls where people carved stuff like "Marcus is gay" "I made bread" "whose dog keeps taking dumps on my porch!?"
Classic graffiti
@@RockyRMR And *classical* graffiti. 😏
Don’t forget so and so was here with a date
One archaeologist said that most reading material found in ancient Greek garbage dumps was just cheap porno.
Based
The image of Epimetheus getting frustrated at the beach due to his little rock tower is really funny.
haha...almost gave up...before it fell over from a wave properly
please make more "Extended Versions" they're absolutely amazing
I imagine they take lots of work and probably make mess money tho
@@rueisblue less not mess
@@rueisblue I doubt they take more time than doing a video about a brand new topic. Which requires not only research time, but also time to draw new art assets
@@johnsmith-ir1ne that's a good point
@@rueisblue I am sure there is a small but dedicated audience for this style. Certainly it has people like me checking back regularly, and may be something that could be used to build Patreon membership.
I bet they are probably a lot of fun to make too.
Imagine landing on those shores before anyone else and seeing a huge island with incredible resources and its all yours ! those first inhabitants must have thought it was heaven
What are the incredible resources
@@innosanto You'd have to go back a very long time to find Crete uninhabited.
Long time ago the Mediterranean basin was not a sea. People could walk from Anatolia to Greece and also to Crete. There were great salt lakes in this environment but not seas as we now know them. Early humans walked upon the sea floor that we know now. Underwater archaeology is a burgeoning new science. I hope I am alive when they discover the human settlements that are well below sea level
An extended version? Of the Minoans?
It really is Christmas!
Yay 😀
@Learned Helplessness that's what she said
It is still Xmas here and I just discovered Epimetheus' Chanel Watched three today. Merry Neutonmas to me. Really good stuff.
Dude these illustrations must take forever, great work
I love this time period. So much is unknown that it almost feels like I'm listening to a campfire story.
The irony is that archaic and classical era Greeks did exactly that: their Homeric epics were passed down orally for many centuries, and were stories about the bronze age
yea. wish a people like these would of had some kind of invincible & invisible forcefield to have kept them safe through the millenia that way i could have of had a chance to move there one day and become one with them; alas, the ones that rise to high for their own good, tend to fall for their own good. ce'st la vie.
@@MR-nl8xr western people truly are weird.
You want to go see a rock hut with a smelly unwashed barbarian? LoL you can see that. You dont need a time machine.
Truth is. What you think you would see. Is not what you would see. Or smell. Or endure. They would literally sell their kids to live in the world you live in. The generations that preceded us and toiled and bled for incremental progress did that to escape that world. Appreciate the ancient. Yes. But understand also the wonder of the age you live in.
In my lifetime i saw analog go to digital.
Sailed in wooden boats. Beat each other with sticks. Took craps in the woods and died at 28 from a scratch. Everyone did that.
Who before us saw what we saw. Who after us will see such a moment of change again. We set the future for the next millenium. Some day some dude will wish he could see our time. Live in this crazy age. Hahaha minoans? Dude. Dime a dozen compared to the age your in broski
Regarding the Minoan language: The oldest language was a pictographic writing system developed around 2000 BCE known as the Cretan hieroglyphs. Another group of signs was identified as Linear A, developed around 1700 BCE. While Cretan hieroglyphs have a pictorial appearance, Linear A has a linear appearance. It has been speculated that both Cretan hieroglyphs and Linear A represent the same language. Minoan civilization had trade contacts with the advanced Middle Eastern civilizations, with Egypt being the most influential. It is likely that the earliest Minoan writing (Cretan hieroglyphs) was modelled after the Middle Kingdom Egyptian hieroglyphs. Although superficially indeed similar to Egyptian symbols, Cretan Hieroglyphs are clearly distinct in both form and phonetic value. Yet the biggest difference lies in the underlying system itself. Egyptian Hieroglyphs are part of a complex writing system, where most signs have more than one possible reading, dependent on context (similarly to the Japanese Kanji characters). Signs could have both a phonetic (single consonant or syllable) value or an ideogrammatic (word) reading, but could even be utilized as phonetic complements or logograms (a written character that represents a word or phrase, like in Chinese), “reinforcing” the reading of words they were attached to. As many of these duplicities could only be interpreted by a native speaker of Old Egyptian, this system was very difficult to utilize for speakers of foreign languages. Also, the Egyptian system had over 800 different signs, which is an extremely large inventory of symbols compared to Cretan Hieroglyphs (roughly 85 or so different signs are known). Linear A signs identified ranges from 77 to 85 according to different scholars, suggesting that this was a syllabic writing system. Minoan scribes might have took the concept of writing from Egypt, creating their own signs and simplifying the system so that it became almost fully phonetic. Such a low number of individual characters is uncharacteristic of the complex writing systems of the ancient Near East, but it is fully compatible with a simple syllabary (reminiscent of the modern Japanese Hiragana or Katakana writing). Thus, some assume that Cretan Hieroglyphs, similarly to all later Aegean writing systems, were already syllabic in nature. Other scholars see Semitic influences / a relationship to Mesopotamian writings in the Minoan language, but these depend solely on Semitic loanwords, such as “sesame”, a word that appears in both Linear A and B (and also in ENGLISH). One thing is clear: After the rebuilding of the palatial complexes on Crete (with the advent of the so-called “New Palace Period”) the Hieroglyphic script fell out of regular use. A new script has taken its place, called Linear A. The relationship of Linear A and Hieroglyphics is probably comparable to the relation between Egyptian Hieroglyphic and Hieratic/Demotic script. Current available evidence suggests that the underlying system remained essentially the same; it is the shape of signs that suffered profound change due to graphical simplification. Linear A was used much more extensively than Hieroglyphs. Hundreds of clay tablets, inscribed vessels, statues, altarstones and even jewelery testifies its daily use. The triumph of Linear A is also striking in a geographical sense: Wherever Cretan traders went, Linear A followed. Perhaps due to the simplicity of the syllabary, it quickly spread to other regions surrounding Crete. While regularly used on many Aegean islands, sporadic finds suggest that it also reached the Greek mainland as well as the island of Cyprus and the Syrian coast.
This was a very in-depth and interesting post. I knew nothing of minoan languages and this was quite informative thank you for posting this
Great response, except for the age of the Minoan hieroglyphs and the relationship between "Medu Neter" (Hieroglyphics) and Hieratic/Demotic. Medu Neter and Hieratic writing systems were created by the Kemites. Demotic was derived from NORTHERN FORMS of Hieratic, used BY SET KINGS & INVADERS, in the NILE DELTA. The stage of the Egyptian language when this script was used followed "Late Egyptian" and occurred DURING THE PERIOD OF ASSYRIAN, PERSIAN, GREEK, AND ROMAN INVASIONS, 652 BCE- 478 CE. It PRECEDED COPTIC, which developed during the 2nd century CE. Demotic is similar to "Semitic scripts" LIKE EARLY ARABIC AND HEBREW.
There were about 1,000 graphemes in the Old Kingdom period, reduced to around 750 to 850 in the classical language of the Middle Kingdom, but inflated to the order of some 5,000 signs in the Ptolemaic period (yet the meaning of many of the original graphemes were lost). Antonio Loprieno, Ancient Egyptian: A Linguistic Introduction (Cambridge: Cambridge UP, 1995), p. 12.
and that will be SUMERIAN, high speed, do not speak what you dont know about lol plz
@@iam-jo6xp What I know compared to what there is to know is comparable to one grain of sand on a beach.
However, your disjointed comment didn't 'factually dispute' anything I wrote, and we both know the reason why.
My messages are somewhat inexpertly crafted for those who strive to vibrate higher rather than for those who don't know that they vibrate.
Your Perception has been Expanded to include these facts, whether you recognize it now or ever.
@@haroldmorris5901
Humility is indeed the seed of all wisdom. Such a rare quality these days...
This is a brilliant idea. Reviewing your own video this way while replying to the most pertinent comments you got on the original and filling us in on the details is something I have never seen before but appreciate highly.
Well done.
Totally agree.
First day on this channel.
Impressed.
What is this guy's background?
@@timmalone5231 A grim screen. And also official fact-checked archeo-alleged ends about them greeks, as well.
But no mention about the fact minoan statues hold their snakes in hand just the exact same way Con Tiki Viracocha does in Southern America, though. Hence the egyptian bark annointed by Sirius just under his feet. And also those 8 Egyptian Gods of Necherou, yes.
So no mention about the island's position in relation to Sirius either.
And also, there's an apricot hill juice kind of ozzing guy spazierening around trying to convince all their jerusal'em (all o'them) based DNA test proves Minoans were just there, ordained by "tumultgod" to progress old testament narratives. Because as indo-europeans they MUST also have been peaced out by david himself. (yeah, the dancing merchant guild hierophant, yes. Not the painter, you know what I'm in.)
Then again, his comment is "apparently" invisible. Maybe because we're all equal gohihims or something over on the toob, who knows?
"Totally agree.
First day on this channel.
Impressed."
>>> Oh, boy... 🤣🤣🤣
@@timmalone5231 Follows jake broe.. Ha, ha, ha! Hee, hee, hee. Like I didn't notice that shiny whacked out of his own mined bufffoon, really...
So you got summoned here to chill quill, right? Now tell me who sent you?
Or else, I'll go mention you, but to la Fère himself, this time. The one who never speaks before combat, you know?
@@messire9837 take a nap
@@historysmysteriesunveiled8043 😂 bro having a whole psychotic breakdown/ psychosis induced maniac episode on a UA-cam comment section weirdest part on a simple reply instead of a controversial comment I guess whatever made him spazz out on this poor guy 😂
Ya, Linear A is definitely not deciphered in 2021! It will truly be glorious when Linear A is finally deciphered - I really hope it happens in my lifetime. For sure there is a ‘Rosetta Stone’ somewhere waiting to be discovered. It will be such an exciting day when it’s found - I find the Minoan civilisation to be absolutely captivating 💕
This might not entirely true: there is an Hungarian linguist and computer scientist living in the USA that proposes certain ideas of minoans speaking an Ugro-Finnic dialect which would infer a certain degree of heritage from the early phehistoric human cities in modern carpathian region.
Nothing definitive but he managed to convincingly translate a Linear A text on a ring and some other samples.
The connection is still waiting for a peer review and recognition from the scientific world but its a promising approach of linguistics breakdown through brute computing power.
ua-cam.com/video/8UJOaRDK5d4/v-deo.html
@Your friendly imperialist neighbor
What are you inferring? I get that you are probably referencing something, but I do not know the context.
@@Leptospirosi Hungarians are not natively from the Carpathians though, they only arrived in the middle ages. Linear A has been linked to everything from Basque to Vietnamese, so I'll wait for the peer reviews to come in before I believe it. It would certainly be interesting though!
@@hamstsorkxxor hes making fun of African Americans who believed they were Egyptian kings who use the motto 'we wuz kangz' inferring they were once kings. It has become sort of a meme because of how out there the theory is
@@curiodyssey3867 yep, these Afrocentrist revisionism are practicing cultural appropriation
r/Egypt is understandably not happy about this appropriation
Love these extended cuts! Itʻs always fascinating for you to talk about the details of these subjects
When I look at the palace of Knossos with the central area, I can’t help but see the labyrinth. I would get lost in a palace with 1000 rooms. And the center courtyard, if used for bull jumping, could easily be the center of the labyrinth. I could see that being turned into some crazy labyrinth with a monstrous bull creature at its center, especially if there was a practice or forcing these captives from the mainland to actually do some bull jumping which is why so many died.
0:32 "fabulous" as the fab Minoan slowly moves in to frame. Awesome. 😁
The Minoans have always fascinated me. Love all your videos!
"Nobody expects the Sea People!!" Had me rolling.
Yes, stoked for this
Man can you imagine a movie based on the high era of the minoan civilization.
YES !!! That would be great !
Agreed, but mainstream culture isn't allowed to know about them. Fake education starts with the Mycenaean war state---you know, "normal."
Thanks for the fun artwork!
Your dialogue with yourself from the past adds more than the sum of each part. Great job.
I’m so glad you released this. I watched the original and really wished it was longer but was glad to have watched it nonetheless - and here we are. Nice work!
An anticipated Christmas present! Thanks a lot!
Merry Christmas! :)
The album 'Dionysus' by 'Dead Can Dance', makes a spectacular backing to your historic commentary on Crete.
That Owl surely is a good Omen, sent by Athena. You´re on the right path, Brother! Keep going!
I think it's also very important to note that the pose of the female statues (holding two identical objects or often, creatures, apart) is a motif that spread throughout the eastern Mediterranean for the next two millenniums.
Your Amazing Alliterations Attesting to the Activities of Ancient Argonauts Assaulting the Aegean are Awesome!
I really liked how your videos at the beach kind of reflected the nature of the periods described, and I like the tower of rocks falling over at the end of it. Impressive that you had done that yourself.
Absolutely sick, I loved the last video like this and wholeheartedly support more of them. Thank you very much!
Wow!! GREAT video! I really enjoyed every minute. Thank you for all your research!
"Sortie of saucy sailing scalliwags" - Hehehe...
Your descriptions of the sea peoples are epic!!!!
I love this channel. Great work, sir.
Thanks for existing Epimetheus and thank you for doing what you do.
:)
i remember reading in a book I had in high school and college that the Minoans jumped over bulls. There's a theory that Plato based the story of Atlantis on the Minoan civilization which fell when Thera, (modern Santorini), erupted in 1650 BC.
IT IS CALLED BULLIPING THERE IS A DIFFRENCE LOOK AT THE FRESCOES
@@eftychiospardalakis7306 If I could afford to go to Europe, and Crete in particular, I would. The book I had was called Ancient Mysteries. I saw the frescoes in the book. Both boys and girls did it as a rite of passage. The language of the Minoan civilization was Linear A. I think it's still untranslated. I don't know. I could be wrong.
@@blaircolquhoun7780 IF YOU HAVE GREEK KEYBOARD TYPE ΑΝΟΙΧΤΗ ΑΚΑΔΗΜΙΑ ΜΙΝΩΙΚΩΝ ΜΕΛΕΤΩΝ UA-cam .IN THREE LANGUAGES .REGARDS!!!!
@@eftychiospardalakis7306 I don't have a Greek keyboard. I have an English keyboard. Thank you.
I believe an ash buried tree was dated at Thera at 1450BCE. And it may not have been the last or most destructive eruption. The best guide we have is Egyptian reports of disasters that killed wildlife, darkened skies and brought "plagues".
I am preparing myself for my honeymoon in Athens/crete/santorini, and this was incredibly useful. Thank you so much for doing what you do.
Congratulations! Hope you have a wonderful time!
Great video mate
This vlog style is actually quite nice. You've been giving us quality historical content for a long time, so it's nice to see the person behind the mic
❤❤❤ stunning channel, thank you for all the insights shared
I like these longer videos. I’ve known “the basics” for decades, but most videos only give those. I want to learn more.
Found you yesterday, listened to the extended version of the Bronze Age collapse video on the way back from working an out of town wedding. Love this stuff, and I think the long format is worth sticking with. Thanks for the hard work
Thanks for researching this and presenting it in a palatable fashion. I always find your videos fascinating and insightful.
Thanks for these Extended Cuts!
Your voice is so calming. Keep making long videos like this. I enjoy listening to your narration while I work.
An unexpected Christmas present
Just a small comment about the whole "men being tan and women being pale" thing....I *did* always wonder why Queens and Goddesses (Hera comes to mind first) were so often described with "white arms" which always seemed an oddly specific thing to focus on. The idea that it was simply cuz they could afford to not go outside never even occurred to me.
Thanks for another extended version! Congrats on how much your channel has grown!
These extended versions are so much better than the short content
Dude thank you for making these videos. I'll keep watching
DNA is weird. X-chromosomes and Mitochondria DNA are inherited from your maternal (mother's) line, but Y-Chromosome DNA is inherited from the paternal (father's) line. Often male warriors would mate with native female populations they conquered, which causes Y-chromosome and X-chromosome lineages to be very different in the majority of human populations.
We also know the majority of humans from out of Africa mated with Neanderthal and Denisovans which likely contributes to the variations in human phenotypes across the Earth.
Genetics is still a developing science with lots of speculation but I'm glad you're not afraid to mention the studies because it is important to not make certain subjects "taboo" in educational videos like these. I love your content and hope you continue your work. Thanks Epimetheus.
You are my favorite history youtuber. Nobody else does bronze age history like you. I really apprrciate these extended versions of your videos and hope you make more like this in the future. I'm suprised your Minoan video doesnt have more views honestly, it was so interesting! super under rated.
Minoans and Cycladic people all early Greek people with spectacular relations and cultural elements even present days! Marvelous people
Question, why would the Cretan Acheans have broken off of Mycenaean control? Or did you just mean that they were autonomous and not under direct mainland control
Combination of both but more the second option...My guess is that when they were initially conquered Crete was under the vassalage of whatever Mycenaean state conquered them, but Crete was probably too far(and self sustaining) to maintain control from the mainland for very long. The Mycenaeans who rebuilt Knossos probably quickly became autonomous without a military struggle with the mainland( or only minor conflict before a truce).
@@EpimetheusHistory myceneanan please
@@EpimetheusHistory I think that the Minoan kingdom and Mycenaean kingdom made a peace treaty beacause the Iliad tells us that the mother of King Agamemnon was the daughter/ niece of King Minos of Crete!
@user-zadeu2makari Yes, but that would have been after the Maycinean conquest of Crete, and therefore, she was likely Maycinean herself.
There is a pretty common theme in a lot of civilizations where woman with pale skin are favored and men are showed with darker skin, is that just because the men with darker skin were out in the sun all day while the women with pale skin were inside most of the time? If I remember correctly it was one of the reasons pale skin among women was favored in some place in Asia for a while where you could tell who was a peasant and who wasn’t based on who was more tan(was outside working fields or whatever). Created a whole beauty product line of creams and powders to look more pale. It’s probably something similar for the Minoans which is why the men are mostly all darker skinned and the women are mostly all paler skinned.
Thank you so much for this extended version! It's fantastic!
This just made my otherwise crappy week so much better love it
4:14 I love that casual YEAH! :D
Thanks for this extended version. Great work! You are a fantastic narrator and your drawings are excellent.
I'm sorry to hear that you were ill, and glad to hear that you are feeling better ....
I would also like to say that I have been listening to or watching at least one of your videos a day since the summer, and have particularly enjoyed your Mesopotamian series. You present your topics thoughtfully without becoming stodgy, and that keeps the history interesting.
I hope you will be able to do extended cuts for some of your 2022 videos. I find that I enjoy both videos - the original for its clear presentation of the key points of the topic, and the extended version for the additional insight into your thought processes along with added details from your sources.
All the best in 2022!
I like how I commented on the original "Now the hour version"
and now we have the hour(ish) version. Gotta love it.
instead of commenting on what form of gov the Minoans had gonna suggest something wild. Spartans considered themselves strangers to their own land of Lacedonia, they really knew that the Helots were the original population of the region, due to the parallels between Minioan and Spartan society of being "matriarcal", what if Spartans were descendants of Minoan/Mycenean of Crete? Minoans that become extremely martial after Mycenean assimilation and the Bronze age collapse the survivors manage to move to the mainland where after years of conflict they took the land for themselves.
Awesome video loved the symbolism of the pools
thank you for creating these extended versions!!
Could you do a video on the Luwians/Arzawa Federation? I've heard and read a lot about them while researching the Bronze age, but they're too often completely ignored/overlooked and it's be great to see you lay out exactly how they fit into the late Bronze age world.
Obviously their potential connection to the historical Trojan War is enticing, but beyond that, I recall a Luwian expert Dr. Zangger speaking of Egyptian sources which suggest that in years when the Hittite Empire was weaker due to internal conflict, Egyptian royal daughters were married off to Arzawan Kings rather than Hittite ones. This could mean that they were the more significant Anatolian power for those periods.
did the Egyptians marry their daughters off to foreign princes? I always thought they would take foreign wives but refused to marry their women to others. I think Tut's widow was going to marry a Hittite prince and he was disposed on while on the way to Egypt.
Always enjoy when you put a few frames of your own life, the owl is super cool...a lot of new information, keep up the good work.
really cool man, very excited for the content in 2022
Love how much effort you put into only shorts bits of your work. Respect!
Thank you! Longer versions are very welcome. Please keep making them.
Extended versions are amazing! Love your videos! ♥️
I LOVE your maps, they are so much more descriptive than most I've seen. Great content!
Recently discovered you while looking for interesting topics to listen to while I work. Keep it up, man. I am loving these.
I always appreciate the longer videos. Also both (this, Bronze Age collapse) videos expanding on the topics where really cool.
OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION!!!! We all continue to progress, with the more we learn and add to our knowledge store. KUDOS, BROTHER!!!!
The Minoan were like the Italians, masters of fashion and art. They also seem like Balinese in the artistry
Babe wake up new epimetheus vid just dropped!
Thank you for Christmas present
That was a real treat. Thank-you....this whole part of the world is fascinating, longer is fine with me no rush content is king.
I am so glad that you were able to stay home more and heal while you were ill. Your history videos are interesting and I love learning about ancient civilizations! There are not enough easily accessible documentaries about these civilizations that aren't quite old and/or overtly racist.
❤ Thank you so very much for continuing to make these videos. You contribute to my continuing love for history.
My friend , I really like your videos and I'm sorry about your problems in real life. Please take your time to deal with them because it is a process and come back when you can to making awesome content , don't worry too much all in life pass the good and bad but it is important to live in the now and enjoy life without regrets! Take care and much love ,
-- a fan!
P.S. you make my day better and it was nice to hear some off-topic talk like the rock tower :D sorry if I writed anything wrong English is not my mother language.
Love you extended version videos - but let's be real, I´d love them anyway because your Bronze Age stuff is gold.
This is so good, bro. I love your little breaks of character, too. Love your work
How did I miss the release????? I am now going to pop some corn and pour a glass of seltzer ....
Thanks @Epimetheus!!!
So enjoyed this video. Thank you
The extended version?! Oh, you spoil us!
Also, have you heard of Dr. David Falk?
It's honestly really sad to see how often significant progress was halted due to events out of an average persons power.. Events such as Thera exploding, Bronze Age collapse, Roman Empire collapse, Black Death.. It sometimes pains me to wonder how much more advanced humanity in general may (or may not perhaps) been if even 1 of these apocalyptic scenarios wouldn't have happened.
In this case, if not for Thera, would the Minoans eventually unite Mycenea just as Rome had? We can only imagine.
History isn't a linear road forward, even if the past 500 years of European historians would have you believe that.
Even the most enlightened kingdoms and empires go through periods of expansion, decline and collapse. It's the law of history. We should be wary of feeling we are immune to this in the modern world. Society can quickly take many steps backward if we botch the response to a crisis like starting World War 3 or our response to climate change.
Sometimes those periods of collapse are actually the instigators for significant progress as people are forced to find new ways of solving problems. When a dominant order persists too long without any perturbation, it can lead to complacency and stagnation that makes innovation too costly compared to keeping things the way you've always done them.
@@cohomologygroup Saw an interesting video yesterday which explores this idea in the context of Mesopotamia, which, while surviving for millennia, seems not to have been very innovative. I think both sides of this argument have merit.
Thank you for this video 😊
Hey bud! Great video.
Recently discovered your channel... been binge watching ever since! You do great work my dude!
Happy new year Epimetheus! All the best from Bulgaria!
Glad you're doing better health wise, as always great stuff!
I keep your videos on in the background while I shave my legs and it turns out I learned a lot from your videos lol! So thanks!
Very well researched. It’s fun watching as you seem to enjoy what you’re doing and not dry formal facts & data.
I truly enjoyed these videos. So informative. Thank you
I love Epimetheus' Channel. I wish we could get these History Documentaries on TV more often, and in this detail.
Thank you for the incredible videos you create and the knowledge you share. Your art is always amazing to see and always feels very real to what historical dress and arms would have been.
Wonderfull!
Happy to hear you feel better.
I didn’t realize you draw all of this. How cool!!
I am so excited to find your channel. Your videos are great! Love your choices, artwork, commentary and loads of info. Subbed!
Fantastic video - loving the longer form content :)
My first experience w any of your videos. Looking forward to watching all of them. You do a great job. Thanks
This is so epic, thank you for making history fun man!