"We are changing to avoid mistakes of the past" says the company that told us we would get monthly updates to avoid mistakes from the past and then proceeded to fail on the first month.
@@ger5956 If I can answer for him, I imagine that a) he's trying to be even-handed and b) he's seen a lot worse from the companies that give up altogether and leave everyone 100% in the lurch. Mythic is trying; they are just doing so with underhanded business practices. For example, when this video was made, it was before we knew that Red Hook Games was just as blindsided as the KS backers. Which in itself is completely indefensible considering Red Hook ponied up a million dollars for Wave 1 to keep their name out of the mud.
@@ger5956exactly he is the voice of a community and is making it out that it is ok to be scammed by mythic by giving them an easy pass, he should be furious
So disappointing from Mythic Games. They were one of favourite boardgame companies and I was looking forward to backing Darkest Dungeon, but didn't have the funds at the time. So glad i dodged that bullet.
I've paid 584$ and I've still got nothing .... I really hope that all the people that were in charge will not be able to work anymore in boardgame industry
Lets not forget kickstarters lack of policing in this. They seem quite happy to keep taking a cut for doing not a lot, even companies like ebay and amazon seem to hold their users to a much higher standard
Yeah, it's crazy these companies can use the money for anything.. no guarantee the money you pledge will even be used for the game you're backing. I'm pretty much done with kickstarter and only consider gamefound games if they have a money back guarantee. With the exception of final girl season 3!! I know that game will have no issues.
There have been a few suits and laws related to this, and I am not usually one to advocate for more oversight, but CF in general needs more oversite if established companies use it as a nu-store.
You give them way too much leniancy. They made the conscious decison to put their hands into the honeypot of the new campaigns to substitute the losses of the older ones, they wasted even more money in the drawn out development of their games. The cherry on top is they created something that looks eerie like a ponzi scheme to me which is by the way illegal in most places.
This. I've seen him be more critical towards CMON and the shipping price they charged vs. Mythic. As expensive as CMON's shipping have been, they've delivered most of their products. Mythic on the other hand, they've asked for more than what I've usually pay for CMON at this point lol.
@@ericshmMythic is this time asking for money for production and shipping...even if it's at prime cost and they don't make one buck I expect 200+ Dollar for this.
1 - I’m surprised, frankly, that you still believe the words coming from Leo’s mouth. 2 - I’m continually surprised by the total lack of “sorry” in their language. They’re more reluctant to say it than my wife 😂 3 - Marco is definitely not “just a customer service employee”. He has some role to play in operations. Amanda on KS is the one that’s only in CS. She gets very little info on projects, Marco is in the weeds working out details with the higher ups. He also seems to be the *only* person who cares about backers and is in a position to communicate. As mad as you might be about this situation, it doesn’t help to bite the only hand feeding you now. 4 - I also giggle very hard every time one of these nuggets of terribleness drops and comments are like “ok this is the final straw. You guys will never be able to run a crowdfunding campaign again.” As if that didn’t happen over a year ago now haha
Honestly, at this point I'd rather them give up and stop. Right now the game is "complete" but they are playing on the completionists that feel the urge to have everything available for it so they keep paying over and over. They deserve to go out of business and to stop expecting their customers to be endless money taps, they are abusing the heart and soul of kickstarter and they deserve to have their entire company taken away from them.
I noped out of Mythic Games after the Fiasco that was Joan of Arc and Riechbusters. I left comments on various forums about how their projects are all at risk only to be shutdown by the fan boys. I think they should try to deliver what they have promissed but then go away. I do not understand how anyone can trust them again in the future but I have been wrong before as people have short memories or get caught up in emotions of some IPs. Finally, I want to highlight the issue with "Fake funding goals" Maybe if the real funding they needed was not hit, then the projects would have been cancelled but then also people would not be in the situation that they are in today. Better a project never made than to fund and not be able to deliver. But then again, I am always amazed at the number of people who continue to spend like there are no issues in the industry or the economy at large.
True. I am in a situation when I want back a game because of the IP but the company is a red flag. So I try to stop myself for doing it. But I guess some are easily grabbed by the IP. I’m talking about Escape from Arkham Asylum
That's why CMON charging the shipping that they do doesn't bother me because part of it is anticipating possible overages that could happen a year or more in the future when they actually ship. Ideally, they would charge shipping after the production run to get a more accurate amount, but then you run into people that forgot about their pledge or people that are unable to pay (situations change) so I get getting the money upfront to cover everything.
This is what gets me with KS and CFs in general. I cannot fathom how this is legal. I understand it is one thing to use KS as it was designed, for small businesses who cannot get started any other way, but these companies use it as a nu-store to sell things that don't exist yet. The people already bought their game(s). For those who are new to KS they may not understand the risks properly. I see this happen so often, how is it not regulated? Even worse is when it is 100%+, retail stores get THEIR copies, but not the people who actually helped to establish it.
This isn't surprising. As soon as they ran out of money and had to take the desperate step of asking 6: Siege backers for more money, you knew this was coming for all remaining outstanding projects. Hopefully, their estimate of how much money they need to wrap these projects up is more accurate this time around.
19:40 while I agree that people should have some decency...they did state those at the top, not ground level employees like Marco and Amanda. Thay said, while it is just a game and not life or death...they did steal MILLIONS of dollars. It's not like they just spent too much on a car or something. They're frauds. Complete and utter frauds.
I am affected for the Hel, last Saga campaign. What's frustrating is they never provide the updates on Kickstarter. this was an earlier campaign from the other 2: darkest Dungeon and Rainbow Siege. They should have prioritized the game in sequence.
I think that they will try to get Hel pushed through, as the game is pretty much done. I'm sure there are some things that need polishing, and there will be some flaws because of that, but they did a lot of work on that (or so it seemed) before it all came crashing down. I'm going to hold my pledge (not that I really have any other choice) and hope for the game. It looks excellent.
So glad I passed on all this mess. Honestly though, people should just boycott these guys if they ever do another project. Best way to deal with these scammers.
Mythic is making MILLIONS just charging fake extra shipping costs off these suckers. Newsflash, it does not cost $100 to ship even the largest boardgames ever made.
I don't know what version of Monopoly you are shipping around 😂, but I got a full KDM shipped between 2 countries in Europe and it costed €160. That said, this was just door to door shipping. Like other videos of KoA say and I agree, companies do like to consider any fulfillment cost as shipping.
@@JohnHoliver costs for you and costs for a company bulk ordering thousands of orders using established relationships with shipping companies is completely different
@@SamS-cb5ep I might agree with you but I don't know your definition of completely different. Between 2 individuals, my counterpart isnt charging me for the time he spent packing ny order, storying in his collection, or passing the freight cost of having his copy sea shipped from China to his house, which is what the established companies are doing left, right and center. But if you mean that their cost of shipping a pallet on last mile is much cheaper, I can tell you that it could be 10-15% cheaper for bulk orders and pallets according to 3PL websites. Which don't matter much bc in Europe we frequently get charged a flat rate independently where you are, even if as an individual it cost less to ship from a Germany warehouse, to a German end destination vs to a French or Spanish one. Thus, I do agree that there's lots of differences, just don't know which one you are refering to.
I backed both Siege and Hel, luckily forgot to add a pledge for Darkest Dungeon due to not being home when it ended. Some of it's my own fault for backing two projects at(almost) the same time, but I'm so done with Mythic after this.
Choosing to pay at this point doesn't necessarily mean you're willing. We've learned from the first go around that failing to "contribute" means you wont get anything. A this point, for those of us who still havn't gotten anything, the choice is which bad gamble to take. And I'm all in on Anastyr, which I really have no hope in ever seeing. Two massive pledges and nothing to show for it.
Cutting my losses, am not gonna pay more.. whatever extra shipping cost goes to stocks.. not gonna entertain any further drama or waiting..that peace of mind of not being associated with darkest dungeon is priceless.. I threw away much of Wave 1 anyhows..guys , there is more to life than kickstarters and boxes of boardgames we never have time to play
Loved the video game and it was difficult for me NOT to back this. Definitely dodged a bullet, though. Thanks for all your coverage around Mythic and their shenanigans
I feel like if you criticize poor behavior in the boardgaming publishing space, you need to do it across the board. You criticize CMON for deliberately exploiting shipping regularly, but you refuse to criticize Mythic basically at all, and their crime was FAR worse - by Leo's own admission they've known for years that it's been leading to this current crisis. They stole millions of dollars and they're trying to steal more, every single time they ask for another ransom. Disappointed that you won't criticize Mythic the same way you do CMON.
What I have done that was harsh recently toward CMON? I made a rather calm video about my worries for the DCeased stuff, just like this video here. You are comparing how I used to act to how I act now, which has nothing to do with specific companies. I no longer wish to be the guy yelling all the time. I've found people tend to stop listening if that's all you do unless they already agree with you. There will always be people that wish I'd act how I used to toward companies and I understand that. They will however be left wanting, my videos are no longer the ones to seek if you just want someone to be really upset at a company. I'm not perfect mind, and I make a few missteps, but I do try to not be that person anymore.
Must admit I agree here with Tim. I get that you don't want to be "that guy" anymore - but I guess my question to you is; at what point does a company do something bad enough you become that guy again? Like in your video you remark about and seem to appreciate the fact that the previous wave 2 'contribution' would be deducted from the new one. But like - who cares? That's such a moot point given that they promised and made clear that if you did pay now you 'would not need to pay again'. They've since changed those rules and tried to hide it by unpinning and changing their tune. The fact that you said "this is new information!" to the fact that past 'contribution' will pay for some of new 'contribution'...like...given their past they could just as easily change that by October too? Would you be upset then? Not only that, but they're clearly lying about not knowing the contribution amount and are hiding it because it's not good. The less negative press the better in this case, so spring it on them fast, hope enough pay to keep them afloat for another month or two, and buy time to figure out another plan. Finally, let's be real - even IF they use the original 'contribution' to give one a 'discount' on the new 'contribution' - they can just easily plan around that to make sure they squeeze out as much as possible - you're paying twice no matter the case. Ex; "it costs us X million, so we need a contribution of $50 from everyone, but some people have already contributed and will be upset, so let's let them use that past contribution money to give a discount on this one...oh now we don't have enough? Okay well if we do this we'll need the new contribution to instead be $75" Regardless - they're still getting their $50, it just means on some people they're getting $75. I guess all in all - at what point does your 'calling out' of them match the severity of what they are doing? It just doesn't anymore because you're not 'that guy' now? This to me seems like a perfect time to champion yourself for the little guy, but instead you're being rather diplomatic about it. I get that you have to keep a good image to companies as you've since tried to push yourself into an advisor-for-hire role, and that's all well and good. But IMO at some point you *ought* to burn a bridge where a bridge needed to be burned. Just my two cents, and - I had hardly any skin in the game as I only did the basic pledge and thankfully got out of this fast. I can't imagine how angry I'd be were I in the all-in camp....be their person trying to change the industry.
The video is almost obnoxiously forgiving and not nearly critical enough of the ponzi-like behaviour of mythic games. Trusting Leo when they have continuously misled is, at best naive and at worst complicit.
@@TheKingofAverageI get it you don’t want to be that guy and trying to by that guy it doesn’t work here, they keep scamming and scamming. You defend them and I am beginning to believe that they hired you to be their propaganda spokesman. They are going to continue to do this and you are going to be remembered as giving them a ridiculously easy time. I get it you don’t want to be angry and shout about it but you are a UA-camr, you are someone people look up to, do the right thing stick up for the little guy not give the scammers a easy time
Here is why I wished them out of business, so other companies wont try this or think this is a good idea. Also as you said wishing real harm on someone isnt good, but out of business, that seems reasonable for what they have done.
Totally understandable. A part of me hopes it plays out like this and they manage to deliver everything to everyone that is still interested and then directly afterward go out of business haha
@@TheKingofAverage I dont believe they make it through all the products, to have to ask for a second contribution after going on youtube and saying no more contribution, means they are dead out of cash. II think this is their last gasp.
A major point you missed was that with wave 1 DD, Mythic sold extra stock at a major discounted price. I am curious if 6 Siege will show up on their web store. And then will DD wave 2 show up. That is what hurt the most to me, whether true or not, that it felt like they used our contribution money to make extra copies of the games. So we werent just asked for money to produce and ship our personal copy of the game, we were asked to contribute so they could also produce extra copies to sell on their web store. Again, not sure if thats true or not or even how it could be asked and if the answer woukd even be believed. Once trust is lost, every sentence is scrutinized. And when the replies dont match up, like what you showed between Marco and KS update, it means they cant win back any trust either. Thanks for getting more clarification on this. Im also in deep with backing many of their games.
In one of the updates they stated that their were like 200 Wave 1 copies of the game that were for one of the conventions, that they weren't going to attend. These copies were extra copies not bought by backers, and they requested them not to be sent to them, but they ended up getting sent anyway. From my understanding those extra copies of Wave 1 DD were the ones that were sold on their store after everyone got their pledges. Their communications sucks though, so who knows.
@@CheddahSlammer Good and valid point that I didn't know about. An aside, I missed the 2 week window to contribute to wave 1 and had to email them to update my pledge so I could pay it after that period. Even though it sucks, I'm glad they haven't given up and are giving us the choice of either continuing to fund the games to get them. Much better than what seems like their only other alternative. Also, since I pledged through GF and not KS, I dont get any of their communications now since they send them via KS. Maybe it's because GF has denied them that ability. Also something I don't know. But many other companies send updates via both platforms and will just have a link to read the full update on KS.
I also backed for the whole package AND contributed for wave1, but the thing is I only paid for it considering it specifically says "this is it you don't have to pay anything more" on it. now things changed somehow and I somehow wish I'd just chickened out at the moment and be done with it... still, all things considered I'd probably still paid them (with hatred) for my stuff if it's affodable. btw I agree with you that they should've opened up ASAP instead of "holding it" (if it's the case) since people need time to arrange their bills/expenses/cash etc. and at last thank you for a really good video and the summary
They should give everyone a refund.. and shut down their business... going bankrupt.. I don't care. No cancer.. but prison time if needed. Nothing can justify their actions or lack their of.
My main issue is them not communicating very well. It just comes off as very blunt, and I can see that pissing people off. I am going to pay because I got Wave 1 and frankly I feel like the game is incomplete, I wasn't intending to sell the game anyway since it is a decent game.
I backed JoA and Reich Busters, and they did a decent job. So I thought I could expect the same from Darkest dungeon. But man was I wrong. They hold my game hostage, so I will pay the ransom. But if they think this is a sustainable business model…. Nope, I won’t support them again, another publisher on my blacklist.
Thanks for your hard work to clarify Mythic's terrible communication. While i do have compassion for the situation they're in and appreciate that they're still trying to deliver, their communication is SO TERRIBLE it's nearly impossible not to be furious at this point. Did they honestly think we wouldn't remember they said we wouldn't have to pay again for wave 2? That along with the fact that the rarely post updates (even though in a May or June update they said they were committed to providing monthly updates). Mythic, if you're listening, please rethink your communications strategy. While most of us would certainly be angry to learn we had to pay more, it's SO disingenuous and insulting to pretend you never made a promise you now aren't keeping. You should definitely send Michael a gift basket for his practical approach to the situation: everyone DOES lose and lose bigger if the majority of folks don't pay up.
Honestly I dont think they should be allowed to continue to get peoples money to deliver their games. I think that mythic needs to fold. I was base pledge on 6 siege and Hel. I didn't pay the contribution cause life happened and I couldn't justify the extra funds so im just out tbe $200 plus dollars. Now i will see Rainbow 6 Seige in front of some people but not others. Its like saying, "because you have the ability to pay more than the fraction we got from this guy, you get a great game". You say this isn't a crime like murder but last I checked a ponzi scheme is a felony. Its a real shame. Im just happy Monolith split from this group of theives. I should have seen it then and not backed Seige or Hel. This whole situation has turned me completely off Kickstarter for board games in general now. I see a couple of really good games coming out and im just not going to risk it no matter how confident everyone is in them. I'd rather just go back to Warhammer. At least there I get plastic for my money.
we are better than them, don’t say anything bad at all.. blah blah.. keep enabling a bully/scammer, don’t say anything that might hurt their feelings , just give whatever money they ask, be grateful that you are getting a game you already paid for, no worries Mythic games will collaborate with someone in future and continue their business.. soo sick of these people and coverage… no accountability nor consequences.. Good job!!
Yeah Essen Spiel, a lot of campaigns usually during autumn and then less then a month to pay....I really want this and payed a lot for it but I don't know if I can pay another one or two hundred bucks which would get me a complete other Game.
would only be a civil case and yeah, you might force the company to pay money they dont have after paying off the other more important debitors first (loans, state, banks etc) @@Raggistheguy
Thanks for all you do. I am curious if the push on the licensed IP games is because of fear of legal action from the IP owners. If they're not generating any additional income and they will most likely be black listed what is their motivation for games like Hel?
Being a person that is in pretty deep on Siege 6, man I can't believe how bad they have messed over their fans. My jaw would hit the floor if I heard anyone involved in the mess that is Mythic were willing to support them on any future endeavors. I know if I can make it through this I'm am out for good.
I'm pretty confident they've violated just about every trade law in the EU and France with this ransom strategy. It makes me wonder when the authorities will finally step in.
That's what a lot of EU people have mentioned. I actually kind of find it interesting that crowdfunding doesn't have the sort of contracts most other pay before product/service is completed does. I had my home built and obviously put up a pretty significant amount of money before the house was even built and it was during the whole COVID thing so delays galore, but it was all within a very well defined contract that spoke about time tables, expectations, acts of God and what happens then, substitutions, etc. I imagine even in the EU this sort of thing (paying for something before creation and delivery, which is estimated some fair amount of time after payment) happens, but crowdfunding has none of that. I feel that makes it feel a bit more "loosey goosey" - thoughts? (an aside, I'll be going to Spiel and I know you guys will have a booth there - will get in touch this week about that!)
@@TheKingofAverage So basically, when it comes to crowdfunding, there's not really any specific legal framework in place, especially if your business model includes giving something back to supporters-like a product or a perk. In the eyes of the law, this is more or less just a sale. If you're curious about how to handle pricing and why it shouldn't fluctuate, you should definitely google this : EU Consumer Rights on Pricing and Payments. Pretty good stuff there!
According to their former project managers, they've been running the company almost like a pyramid scheme for at least a couple of years. As someone who's managed a business, I can tell you firsthand that COVID didn't really jack up manufacturing costs to the extent they're claiming. Sure, it messed with delivery times because factories were closed, but this talk of sky-high expenses? Nah, it smells fishy. What ticks me off the most is that they're making people cough up almost the full manufacturing cost. It's just ludicrous.
Great post as usual. Whilst willing to do so, I am a little sceptical about paying out more money when I still have not received my 6 Siege game. I am definitely in the try to keep the MG doors open so that it gives people at least the chance of getting their games after paying added contributions. I hope that as each one delivers, confidence of the backers will grow and the number of people taking up the option will grow so that more people get their games. Time will tell.
I appreciate your research and explanations. However I think your reasoning is based on truthful information from Mythic. Based on the previous information provided and the fact that those things did not turn out to be true for the most part, at this point I assume everything they say is a lie.
Except that they delivered Wave 1 of DD. They even delivered with Red minis, cause people complained that they changed them to grey. So its about half and half. One of the reasons their is hope they will deliver is because its attached to another IP. If they don't deliver Red Hook might Sue them which they don't want. Reason Why all the IP games are being sent before their non-Ip games.
All of the things I am hearing about numerous crowd funding projects, makes me less and less likely to be willing to support projects, even if I really like them as it seems more and more people/companies are using these funding options incorrectly. I am currently waiting for some items from a project I backed almost a year ago now. I understand that things can happen to delay or interrupt a planned timeline, but some of these issues I have seen being said or done, make me be real cynical of such fundraising from here on out. At no time should you be told that you will have to pay more money in order to get the items that you originally pledge money for in return. They can ask supporters to send additional funds if they so wish, but should still send out all items that were promised at time of original pledge. If the items cannot be delivered for price originally stated then either a refund should be issued for the full amount originally pledge or some kind of negotiations take place between parties.
IF you have 6 torches you don't have to pay. You also need a few other items (from the game) and if you have these you won't have to pay more as you have successfully kept the darkness at bay.
Make games, not campaigns a wise person once said. It mostly feels bad what they are doing. From what I understand they blow a lot of the cash in development and there is not much left for production... this was certainly the case for siege. The far out projects I feel like they should just refund automatically and call it quits. But I guess they already blew that cash to make the campaigns as well.. Especially when you hear a given campaign fell short of funding even though there was actually a good amount of funding. Mythic games probably way overspent on making the campaigns and falls way short when the time comes to make the game. It just feels bad.
This came as no surprise to me. What did surprise me slightly is that they seem to be sticking to their Darkest Dungeon wave 1, Six Siege, Darkest Dungeon wave 2 THEN Hel delivery plan.
Man, I'm still praying they make it to finish monsterpocalypse. That's the only thing I'm on the hook for with them. I would rather they finish trying to fulfill everything they can and sell off everything when finished and fold.
what really frustrates me, I have about 1000$ in three of their campaign locked. I requested a refund on all three 2022 july, nothing received yet. I wrote them an email about 1,5 months ago that they should apply my paid amounts for Siege and another KS to Darkest Dungeon so I could at least receive product from W1+W2 of that KS....obviously no reply
Let mythic burn. The ransom they want now isn’t even to help ship wave 2, it’s going to toward helping 6 siege get finished. Wave 2 hasn’t even started production. Mythic can go to hell.
Your statement at the end where sometimes it's too late for an apology is accurate. I fall in to the camp of I gave them money and now have nothing to show for it. At the time of typing I am about 800 days give or take from and estimated delivery and my game keeps getting pushed further and further back. I know they said the money is gone and that's why they are asking for more, but I like thousands of others would really like to know how was 2.2 million spent, or how 5.6 million was spent or how 1.5 million, and I could keep going. Its not like games were just funding, they were all over funded but somehow that is all gone and just keep asking for more. At some point they will have to be cut off, because if this keeps going they will continue. Will it suck not getting a game, but that is something out of our control.
Mythic is a poor organization. There’s no way around it anymore. The industry can only be improved by their eventual and inevitable absence. I don’t understand advocating for their survival in any way. If people’s money is gone, it’s gone. Stop stringing everyone along.
Even as a non-english native speaker i can't be THAT hard to make i quick translation for the word "sorry". I am pretty sure they have that one aswell in french.
This is just shady on so many levels… They shouldn’t never have asked for anything Wave 2 related the first time round, especially when they were no where near ready for production / shipping. Why charge for extra shipping costs when they have no idea what they’ll be at the time of shipping? Now, because they did it this way, it feels like they deceived backers to get them to pay more thinking this was a one off payment. If they’d have said up front this is wave 1 only, backers would have been much more hesitant to pay and far angrier. This is an absolute dumpster fire of “mythic” proportions but not surprising with their track record post Kickstarter collapse. When I saw how much we had to pay for 6 siege I knew it was bad news for Darkest Dungeon with its initially modest “contribution”.
I Late Pledged so I haven't gotten any info at all as ov 1230pm CST. I know they sent me the info for the 1st shipping fees for wave 1. If you talk to them please tell them not to forget us Late Pledgers as we gave them our money too, and KS didn't take any from our Pledges
Thank you for the clarifications Michael! I only backed Darkest Dungeon 2nd Wave for a language version. It is so sad that they are struggling so badly but also amazing that they still try to make it possible. Their games are amazing. I will most likely contribute and hope they pull through. Would so love to play DD with my friends. That said people still seem to believe that crowd funding is a shopping mall ... No! You give money towards a dream in the hope that dream becomes reality. Like with all types of speculation you can not expect to always win. The money you invest can not be the money you need for a living but only what is spare. I have funded quite a few board games in the past 5 years and I am quite surprised how few really do fail even if they were barely funded. For small Indie companies it can be already hard if members get ill let alone wordwide events mixing up the economy and still the delivered. And while Mythic are trying to make it happen I'd wish for a more open communication and less cryptic announcements. It would allow me to feel more confident, to be a honored part of it instead of a means to an end. But then there is that amazing game that I really really want ... :P
I have backed Hel last Saga, all in. I would be sad if i never get i, not because the lost money, but because it look like a game for me. The money was already lost, then l spent it on "further entertainment".
Great coverage, Michael! Re: to fold or continue, I feel Mythic is actually doing the right thing. Canceling their business means affecting way more backers who might've not minded paying extra to see their games be made and not lose their initial pledge funds. Continuing may upset backers time and again with every shipment but we are not more emotionally affected besides the momentary anger or resentment. Think about those at Mythic. They willingly are putting up with hate, outrage and stress on a daily base!!! Yet they continue, knowing full well, they'll never regain our trust to back a new project again. And these are GAMES we're talking about. Can you imagine the irreparable harm they are, again, willingly wanting to expose themselves to daily for an entertainment product? Cuz make no mistake, constant stress does eat away away at your health. So, yes, I do believe Mythic is being noble about this despite their lack of tact. And that guy who wished them cancer? He oughtta be careful how the universe deals with poetic justice. Just saying, those who live by harm end up succumbing to it. Peace, Michael and continue to do the right type of content. You're awesome.
As someone who lost a bout $300 on the Village Attacks Grim Dynasty KS, I would rather pay more to get it than have the company go under and officially have thrown away those funds.
A rough situation all around. I was lucky to dodge the bullet on darkest dungeon but was very close to backing as I loved the video game. I think at this point like you said it is very difficult on any route that consumers go and the company but in some ways I think unfortunately the best route (imo)really is to cut the losses on their games as it will be an ongoing issue for years and years with the backlog of campaigns Mythic created, if you have more than just this backed it is going to keep hurting over and over again and it starts becoming less about money and more about sanity, emotions, and principles at this point. I am truly horrified and saddened that such a situation continues to beat on our fellow gamers and community and wish it would just end for the sake for everyone involved, even if unfortunately it means not getting the game. That is just my thoughts on it though, appreciate the coverage and communication as always KOA!
Weird news, I might have won a copy of Dante in the community giveaway, but couldn't confirm yet. I find it hard to believe that many "João O." were participating :3 Aren't u consulting for that?
Reach out to them via this email: customerservice@wearecgs.com So happy to hear someone from the community here won! Congrats sir - unless it isn't really you in which case that other jerk stole your name :D
I did ~4d ago, but still gotten no response until now ^^ Anyway, I've mentioned bc I know that u do a good service to the community by sharing all these news. I was already following their campaign and answered the giveaway bf the mention here, but it could have been anyone from us, and specially one that only got to know about it bc of you 😊
Funnily enough, I really wanted darkest dungeon, but didn't have the cash at the time. I'm glad I missed it, but still wish I could have gotten a copy...
I'm pretty sure you will not get refunded at this point before they go out of business. Their queue for refund from multiple kickstarter projects are going to take years to process even if they have the funds. So i feel the only choice I have is pay the ransom for the chance to getting something or just consider the whole pledge a loss.
Hey Mike I actually do have a question for you or something I know I and a lot of other people would love for you to look into, Reggie games is a bit behind on their updates for this month, we were supposed to get the final shipping prices for Primal a week ago and from the looks of it, they have not been answering any questions for half of the month.
The model that Mythic followed by using the last KS to fund the next one fell over. However, Mythic is at least trying to deliver rather than close down and backers get zero. I am not happy but there are many examples of the latter. I backed most of their games and hope they will deliver the backlog.
I was a mythic games guy for sure and went all in On several games. Thankfully only went with basic on DD, and skip out on Anastyr, but still holding out hope that my all in for Hel the last saga, eventually pans out, though I’m sure there will be a heft ask for additional contributions at that time. Sadly it’s no longer a good place @ the Mythic Inn.
This was a really great video, thanks for the information and your work on getting answers, I’m one that is stuck in the middle about all of this, the game itself is honestly a fantastic game, it pulls the feel and atmosphere of the video game really damn well and I highly recommend it to fans of that and fans of board games, but of course like others I’m upset over how they managed their money and how we got here. I contributed the first wave and I’ll be doing it again cause I want the rest of this great game, I’m mad but also happy they are fighting to still get their games out to us and that they didn’t just disappear and give us nothing I had a feeling this was coming again but I’ll be helping to get my stuff cause I think they make great games, I get why some are far more upset than I am and they have every right to be cause it’s an expensive investment but at the very least, don’t be spouting garbage answers about people getting cancer, let’s be better than that okay people?
I'll be paying the new contribution, even though they said we wouldn't have to (as you addressed), because I want everything I paid for. But I don't think I'll ever spend another cent on a Mythic product after this fiasco.
Sad to have to pay more, but my game group and I have had an amazing time playing this and think it worth the additional cost to add more content. Too bad the company ended up where it is.
Hey King of Average. Question for you. Is Game Work Create still in business? A comment on Facebook claims they are not responding to him and they haven’t updated their Facebook in a long time. Just curious before I order from them.
@@TheKingofAverage thank you. Also just so you know and can tell your follower, the Gaming Goat Las Vegas has been purchased and is under new management. I got ripped off because former management didn’t order some games they offered preorders on I.e. Marvel Zombies Devourer Pledge and who knows what else. The new company Knight and Day Games is just cancelling those orders and didn’t tell me. I found out myself and when I emailed them they told me I had to proceed with disputing the charge with my CC. I’m in the process right now, but since it’s been so long, I don’t know if I’ll get my money back.
Great video. I went into this video pretty upset that I have to pay more as well. But despite me being still upset, you have made an insightful video that was fairly unbiased. Thank you.
“For anyone who has already did the contributions with wave 1,you will NOT be asked for any additional contribution when wave 2 is getting ready to ship. You initial contribution covered shipping for both waves. This is only for those backers who ordered a language product outside of EN and have not be asked for a contribution."
@@TheKingofAverage Yes so I read. It always baffles me how companies can be like that. Why should I trust them now? Again give them money and then? They could just say "Oh well..wasn't enough...more...MORE!" I have to say I do want to see people get their product, but then Mythic Games should be done and burried. Awful experience! Thanks for your videos, Michael. Please keep up the good work!
I'm really happy to read this. Not so much the sub part (but of course I'm happy to hear that too!) but because I've put in a lot of effort to handle myself better on this platform and while I've had some missteps along the way, it's reaffirming and encouraging to hear it's been noticed. :)
@@TheKingofAverage I found your channel during the pandemic and liked your angle, but did unsubscribe a couple of times after some of your rant video. I very much appreciate your new approach. Thank you for taking that step.
BTW Marco said, he wrote some part of the update and handed it forward, they only took a portion of his writing, last word of the update has the marketing, which we all know is the worst that can happen.
On another note, if Marco ever leaves Mythic, we are fucked, this guy litterly runs this show in the background, w/o him everything would be way worse.
Sadly, I don't think there's any mystery to the mixed messages from different employees. You simply can't trust or believe anything they say. For Solomon Kane we were all supposed to get replacement minis for a known defect. They "paused" those replacements claiming they needed a new packaging solution. Dragged that messaging along. A year plus later and they sold the game rights and the replacement minis are on miniature market. For Darkest Dungeon they said they were fielding support requests. I've been trying to get replacements for damaged or malformed cards. Marco said he sent the requests in March. Shocker - nothing and now he ignores my follow-ups. Now the wave 1/2 debacle. I have 0 confidence in anything they say. Will they deliver Wave 2? Maybe. But the excuses and explanations are BS. And lord help you if you need support for damaged or missing pieces.
I'm grateful that they are trying to keep the company limping along long enough to allow backers to choose. Neither getting nothing nor paying more are good options, but we can at least choose. Working to stall the inevitable collapse of the company has to suck majorly - there's no chance that anyone but the backers is better off from this course of action. Meagre as the benefit of choice is, I believe its the best outcome available in this atrocious situation. I'm only waiting on Monsterpocalypse, but I hope they can limp along long enough that I can eventually get it.
Well made video I really think this is one of your best ones. I feel bad for everyone who backed these games I was an early Mythic hater and it ended up saving me a lot of money
Thanks you Michael for the update. Ok... so where is the Monsterpocalypse money... were is the Anatyr money ? The all "money collected go where it should" is complete crap ! Did you asked that question ? Because there's a lot more than DD and 6siege... The only way to pass all the anger is with a jugde, and Léo and his partner assuming all this crap in front of justice. What would happen if you sell for 7 millions of furnitur to Google or IBM and never deliver anything ? Do you think they would let go and not ask for compensation or sentence to discourage anybody to do the same ?
Oh for sure in the past the money wasn't bucketed. Perhaps that's the case now too and they are lying. But I do know they did deliver wave 1 on e paid. And did 6 Siege once paid.
@@TheKingofAverage yeah... I think it's long gone. I asked my refund for Anastyr one year ago. Why wouldn't they refund Anastyr or all the game not in production when asked if they still had the money ? I think they spent it for DD...
thats what i didnt like, they took the money from the KS and paid wages (i know they are a company) but the funds made was towards MAKING the game, not paying for their wages. (they ensured they took long time, studio and everything for this.
Thanks for the prompt update. Interesting that they to say that they can pretty much go straight into production (noting it will go on for quite a while past the contributions phase) so quickly, guessing they are feeling pretty certain or maybe they have more funds than they are letting on. I also still think the refunds are really not helping zt this point.
They said the same for 6 Siege. That all they have to do is "hit the print button" and that if you paid the additional charge the games would be delivered October 2023. They have already delayed to March 2024 for fulfillment
They know the bad news from months and they always wait till last minute to share them to avoid backlash but I think that is worst and create more backlash… they are very terrible on hoe they communicate stuff
I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the reputational toll these decisions are taking. I understand they feel like they have no choice but to request the contributions in order to deliver the games, but hypothetically best case, that they get out from under all this and deliver all the outstanding games, what then? Who backs another Mythic game after all this?
Hopefully I was able to convert my pledge for Anastyr for online shop credit and got DD instead, which I sold immediately as I was not interested in that game.
Throughout this whole debacle with DD your channel has been a reliable and balanced source of summarised information. I thank you for that. I’m in roughly the same position as you, albeit slightly more out of pocket. I backed the Ancestral Pledge on GF plus the sleeves, compendium etc. all in 605USD. Then paid $75 for shipping. Then paid $69 extra to get “wave 1”. Latest “demand” is 108USD to receive remaining 4 expansions, the darkest heroes and the compendium. No sign of any “deduction” for the previously paid amounts I might add. I’m ok to pay this extra amount as long as I can be certain that the wave 2 content will actually ship. To spend $800+ plus on this game and end up with only the core and one expansion would be really really hard to stomach. I doubt anyone can guarantee that Wave 2 will be shipped to those that pay [again] but do you think it will? And are you going to pay that extra $100??
So while I don't think bankrupcy is the answer, they probably should try to sell off the remaining ips and properties that they own, that weren't previously sold off inorder to pay salaries as well as come up with the rest of the money to actually produce and deliver the games. Comments that leo made about not taking a salary for 5 months really makes you worry about how close to the red line they are of closing up shop and calling it a day, as most people can't survive with 0 pay for half a year. Right now im in on Six Siege/Hel, Mon Poc, while i might get six siege, but the all in for Mon poc is my biggest concern, because the company will most likely fail before every delivering it.
There are not that many boardgame creators out there for mini heavy games. Any company going out of business is a loss for us all. At the same time I can understand to not pay the extra. In the end I hope mythic can stabilize somehow and provide good service in the future, for now mythic will be problematic, so they have to clear all their open projects first. A good future for them would be to go the reprint / sale in their own store route to keep risk low and then go from that point.
Reprints cost money upfront that they don't have. Their store has been sending non-stop emails to buy their overstock of all the previous games. They can't even sell at 50% off.
I'm so glad I only did $1 for Anastyr, but I'm still on the hook for DD and Hel. I've got very mixed feelings on this as part of me still wants the games, but another part wants them to just sell off the rest of their projects and go away. They really have completely destroyed their reputation with the repeated lies, broken promises, and terrible communication.
"We are changing to avoid mistakes of the past" says the company that told us we would get monthly updates to avoid mistakes from the past and then proceeded to fail on the first month.
LOL I remember that :D
@@TheKingofAveragethen why keep defending them?
@@ger5956 If I can answer for him, I imagine that a) he's trying to be even-handed and b) he's seen a lot worse from the companies that give up altogether and leave everyone 100% in the lurch. Mythic is trying; they are just doing so with underhanded business practices. For example, when this video was made, it was before we knew that Red Hook Games was just as blindsided as the KS backers. Which in itself is completely indefensible considering Red Hook ponied up a million dollars for Wave 1 to keep their name out of the mud.
@@ger5956exactly he is the voice of a community and is making it out that it is ok to be scammed by mythic by giving them an easy pass, he should be furious
So disappointing from Mythic Games. They were one of favourite boardgame companies and I was looking forward to backing Darkest Dungeon, but didn't have the funds at the time. So glad i dodged that bullet.
It's a great game. The ransom sucks but it's still better to have the game than don't.. ;)
Dude I went in over $500 on Monsterpocalypse. Imagine how I'm feeling. lol
I've paid 584$ and I've still got nothing .... I really hope that all the people that were in charge will not be able to work anymore in boardgame industry
Lets not forget kickstarters lack of policing in this. They seem quite happy to keep taking a cut for doing not a lot, even companies like ebay and amazon seem to hold their users to a much higher standard
Yeah, it's crazy these companies can use the money for anything.. no guarantee the money you pledge will even be used for the game you're backing. I'm pretty much done with kickstarter and only consider gamefound games if they have a money back guarantee.
With the exception of final girl season 3!! I know that game will have no issues.
There have been a few suits and laws related to this, and I am not usually one to advocate for more oversight, but CF in general needs more oversite if established companies use it as a nu-store.
You give them way too much leniancy. They made the conscious decison to put their hands into the honeypot of the new campaigns to substitute the losses of the older ones, they wasted even more money in the drawn out development of their games. The cherry on top is they created something that looks eerie like a ponzi scheme to me which is by the way illegal in most places.
This. I've seen him be more critical towards CMON and the shipping price they charged vs. Mythic. As expensive as CMON's shipping have been, they've delivered most of their products. Mythic on the other hand, they've asked for more than what I've usually pay for CMON at this point lol.
@@ericshmMythic is this time asking for money for production and shipping...even if it's at prime cost and they don't make one buck I expect 200+ Dollar for this.
1 - I’m surprised, frankly, that you still believe the words coming from Leo’s mouth.
2 - I’m continually surprised by the total lack of “sorry” in their language. They’re more reluctant to say it than my wife 😂
3 - Marco is definitely not “just a customer service employee”. He has some role to play in operations. Amanda on KS is the one that’s only in CS. She gets very little info on projects, Marco is in the weeds working out details with the higher ups. He also seems to be the *only* person who cares about backers and is in a position to communicate. As mad as you might be about this situation, it doesn’t help to bite the only hand feeding you now.
4 - I also giggle very hard every time one of these nuggets of terribleness drops and comments are like “ok this is the final straw. You guys will never be able to run a crowdfunding campaign again.” As if that didn’t happen over a year ago now haha
Leo just looks like any guy that starts a Crypto lately hehehe
Honestly, at this point I'd rather them give up and stop. Right now the game is "complete" but they are playing on the completionists that feel the urge to have everything available for it so they keep paying over and over. They deserve to go out of business and to stop expecting their customers to be endless money taps, they are abusing the heart and soul of kickstarter and they deserve to have their entire company taken away from them.
I noped out of Mythic Games after the Fiasco that was Joan of Arc and Riechbusters. I left comments on various forums about how their projects are all at risk only to be shutdown by the fan boys. I think they should try to deliver what they have promissed but then go away. I do not understand how anyone can trust them again in the future but I have been wrong before as people have short memories or get caught up in emotions of some IPs.
Finally, I want to highlight the issue with "Fake funding goals" Maybe if the real funding they needed was not hit, then the projects would have been cancelled but then also people would not be in the situation that they are in today. Better a project never made than to fund and not be able to deliver. But then again, I am always amazed at the number of people who continue to spend like there are no issues in the industry or the economy at large.
True. I am in a situation when I want back a game because of the IP but the company is a red flag. So I try to stop myself for doing it.
But I guess some are easily grabbed by the IP.
I’m talking about Escape from Arkham Asylum
Reichbusters was the last thing I backed from Mythic.
That's why CMON charging the shipping that they do doesn't bother me because part of it is anticipating possible overages that could happen a year or more in the future when they actually ship.
Ideally, they would charge shipping after the production run to get a more accurate amount, but then you run into people that forgot about their pledge or people that are unable to pay (situations change) so I get getting the money upfront to cover everything.
This is what gets me with KS and CFs in general. I cannot fathom how this is legal. I understand it is one thing to use KS as it was designed, for small businesses who cannot get started any other way, but these companies use it as a nu-store to sell things that don't exist yet. The people already bought their game(s). For those who are new to KS they may not understand the risks properly.
I see this happen so often, how is it not regulated? Even worse is when it is 100%+, retail stores get THEIR copies, but not the people who actually helped to establish it.
This isn't surprising. As soon as they ran out of money and had to take the desperate step of asking 6: Siege backers for more money, you knew this was coming for all remaining outstanding projects. Hopefully, their estimate of how much money they need to wrap these projects up is more accurate this time around.
19:40 while I agree that people should have some decency...they did state those at the top, not ground level employees like Marco and Amanda. Thay said, while it is just a game and not life or death...they did steal MILLIONS of dollars. It's not like they just spent too much on a car or something. They're frauds. Complete and utter frauds.
I am affected for the Hel, last Saga campaign. What's frustrating is they never provide the updates on Kickstarter. this was an earlier campaign from the other 2: darkest Dungeon and Rainbow Siege. They should have prioritized the game in sequence.
Sadly, I think they had to prioritize campaigns with a license due to obligations of the contracts. Hopefully hel will get fulfilled eventually.
@@WestChamber21 I'm holding on to my Hel pledge too. At this rate it'll probably be just the 3 of us that get copies.
I'm all in on HEL aswell. I think DD wave 2 will be delivered but after that, I don't have much hope.
sorry you wont ever see your game
I think that they will try to get Hel pushed through, as the game is pretty much done. I'm sure there are some things that need polishing, and there will be some flaws because of that, but they did a lot of work on that (or so it seemed) before it all came crashing down. I'm going to hold my pledge (not that I really have any other choice) and hope for the game. It looks excellent.
So glad I passed on all this mess.
Honestly though, people should just boycott these guys if they ever do another project.
Best way to deal with these scammers.
Mythic is making MILLIONS just charging fake extra shipping costs off these suckers. Newsflash, it does not cost $100 to ship even the largest boardgames ever made.
They covered their asses by saying production and shipping.
I don't know what version of Monopoly you are shipping around 😂, but I got a full KDM shipped between 2 countries in Europe and it costed €160.
That said, this was just door to door shipping. Like other videos of KoA say and I agree, companies do like to consider any fulfillment cost as shipping.
IIRC they needed 10 mil USD to stay afloat.
@@JohnHoliver costs for you and costs for a company bulk ordering thousands of orders using established relationships with shipping companies is completely different
@@SamS-cb5ep I might agree with you but I don't know your definition of completely different.
Between 2 individuals, my counterpart isnt charging me for the time he spent packing ny order, storying in his collection, or passing the freight cost of having his copy sea shipped from China to his house, which is what the established companies are doing left, right and center. But if you mean that their cost of shipping a pallet on last mile is much cheaper, I can tell you that it could be 10-15% cheaper for bulk orders and pallets according to 3PL websites. Which don't matter much bc in Europe we frequently get charged a flat rate independently where you are, even if as an individual it cost less to ship from a Germany warehouse, to a German end destination vs to a French or Spanish one.
Thus, I do agree that there's lots of differences, just don't know which one you are refering to.
Once I have received everything I already ordered I don't think I will ever buy from Mythic again.
Smart move :/
Honestly, they are full of lies. Leo saying the money form here goes here, and the money from there was there, has 0% value at this point. 0%
I backed both Siege and Hel, luckily forgot to add a pledge for Darkest Dungeon due to not being home when it ended. Some of it's my own fault for backing two projects at(almost) the same time, but I'm so done with Mythic after this.
Choosing to pay at this point doesn't necessarily mean you're willing. We've learned from the first go around that failing to "contribute" means you wont get anything. A this point, for those of us who still havn't gotten anything, the choice is which bad gamble to take. And I'm all in on Anastyr, which I really have no hope in ever seeing. Two massive pledges and nothing to show for it.
Cutting my losses, am not gonna pay more.. whatever extra shipping cost goes to stocks.. not gonna entertain any further drama or waiting..that peace of mind of not being associated with darkest dungeon is priceless.. I threw away much of Wave 1 anyhows..guys , there is more to life than kickstarters and boxes of boardgames we never have time to play
Loved the video game and it was difficult for me NOT to back this. Definitely dodged a bullet, though. Thanks for all your coverage around Mythic and their shenanigans
I feel like if you criticize poor behavior in the boardgaming publishing space, you need to do it across the board. You criticize CMON for deliberately exploiting shipping regularly, but you refuse to criticize Mythic basically at all, and their crime was FAR worse - by Leo's own admission they've known for years that it's been leading to this current crisis. They stole millions of dollars and they're trying to steal more, every single time they ask for another ransom.
Disappointed that you won't criticize Mythic the same way you do CMON.
What I have done that was harsh recently toward CMON? I made a rather calm video about my worries for the DCeased stuff, just like this video here.
You are comparing how I used to act to how I act now, which has nothing to do with specific companies. I no longer wish to be the guy yelling all the time. I've found people tend to stop listening if that's all you do unless they already agree with you.
There will always be people that wish I'd act how I used to toward companies and I understand that. They will however be left wanting, my videos are no longer the ones to seek if you just want someone to be really upset at a company.
I'm not perfect mind, and I make a few missteps, but I do try to not be that person anymore.
Must admit I agree here with Tim. I get that you don't want to be "that guy" anymore - but I guess my question to you is; at what point does a company do something bad enough you become that guy again? Like in your video you remark about and seem to appreciate the fact that the previous wave 2 'contribution' would be deducted from the new one. But like - who cares? That's such a moot point given that they promised and made clear that if you did pay now you 'would not need to pay again'. They've since changed those rules and tried to hide it by unpinning and changing their tune.
The fact that you said "this is new information!" to the fact that past 'contribution' will pay for some of new 'contribution'...like...given their past they could just as easily change that by October too? Would you be upset then?
Not only that, but they're clearly lying about not knowing the contribution amount and are hiding it because it's not good. The less negative press the better in this case, so spring it on them fast, hope enough pay to keep them afloat for another month or two, and buy time to figure out another plan.
Finally, let's be real - even IF they use the original 'contribution' to give one a 'discount' on the new 'contribution' - they can just easily plan around that to make sure they squeeze out as much as possible - you're paying twice no matter the case. Ex;
"it costs us X million, so we need a contribution of $50 from everyone, but some people have already contributed and will be upset, so let's let them use that past contribution money to give a discount on this one...oh now we don't have enough? Okay well if we do this we'll need the new contribution to instead be $75" Regardless - they're still getting their $50, it just means on some people they're getting $75.
I guess all in all - at what point does your 'calling out' of them match the severity of what they are doing? It just doesn't anymore because you're not 'that guy' now?
This to me seems like a perfect time to champion yourself for the little guy, but instead you're being rather diplomatic about it. I get that you have to keep a good image to companies as you've since tried to push yourself into an advisor-for-hire role, and that's all well and good. But IMO at some point you *ought* to burn a bridge where a bridge needed to be burned. Just my two cents, and - I had hardly any skin in the game as I only did the basic pledge and thankfully got out of this fast. I can't imagine how angry I'd be were I in the all-in camp....be their person trying to change the industry.
The video is almost obnoxiously forgiving and not nearly critical enough of the ponzi-like behaviour of mythic games.
Trusting Leo when they have continuously misled is, at best naive and at worst complicit.
The shill is real@@TheKingofAverage
@@TheKingofAverageI get it you don’t want to be that guy and trying to by that guy it doesn’t work here, they keep scamming and scamming. You defend them and I am beginning to believe that they hired you to be their propaganda spokesman. They are going to continue to do this and you are going to be remembered as giving them a ridiculously easy time. I get it you don’t want to be angry and shout about it but you are a UA-camr, you are someone people look up to, do the right thing stick up for the little guy not give the scammers a easy time
Here is why I wished them out of business, so other companies wont try this or think this is a good idea. Also as you said wishing real harm on someone isnt good, but out of business, that seems reasonable for what they have done.
Totally understandable. A part of me hopes it plays out like this and they manage to deliver everything to everyone that is still interested and then directly afterward go out of business haha
@@TheKingofAverage I dont believe they make it through all the products, to have to ask for a second contribution after going on youtube and saying no more contribution, means they are dead out of cash. II think this is their last gasp.
A major point you missed was that with wave 1 DD, Mythic sold extra stock at a major discounted price. I am curious if 6 Siege will show up on their web store. And then will DD wave 2 show up. That is what hurt the most to me, whether true or not, that it felt like they used our contribution money to make extra copies of the games. So we werent just asked for money to produce and ship our personal copy of the game, we were asked to contribute so they could also produce extra copies to sell on their web store. Again, not sure if thats true or not or even how it could be asked and if the answer woukd even be believed. Once trust is lost, every sentence is scrutinized. And when the replies dont match up, like what you showed between Marco and KS update, it means they cant win back any trust either.
Thanks for getting more clarification on this. Im also in deep with backing many of their games.
In one of the updates they stated that their were like 200 Wave 1 copies of the game that were for one of the conventions, that they weren't going to attend. These copies were extra copies not bought by backers, and they requested them not to be sent to them, but they ended up getting sent anyway. From my understanding those extra copies of Wave 1 DD were the ones that were sold on their store after everyone got their pledges. Their communications sucks though, so who knows.
@@CheddahSlammer Good and valid point that I didn't know about.
An aside, I missed the 2 week window to contribute to wave 1 and had to email them to update my pledge so I could pay it after that period. Even though it sucks, I'm glad they haven't given up and are giving us the choice of either continuing to fund the games to get them. Much better than what seems like their only other alternative.
Also, since I pledged through GF and not KS, I dont get any of their communications now since they send them via KS. Maybe it's because GF has denied them that ability. Also something I don't know. But many other companies send updates via both platforms and will just have a link to read the full update on KS.
@@CheddahSlammerwell technically not everyone got their pledges.
More tecnically every single copy was actually paid by backers. Its not like they paid those extra pledges to sell online. We paid for all of them
I also backed for the whole package AND contributed for wave1, but the thing is I only paid for it considering it specifically says "this is it you don't have to pay anything more" on it. now things changed somehow and I somehow wish I'd just chickened out at the moment and be done with it... still, all things considered I'd probably still paid them (with hatred) for my stuff if it's affodable. btw I agree with you that they should've opened up ASAP instead of "holding it" (if it's the case) since people need time to arrange their bills/expenses/cash etc.
and at last thank you for a really good video and the summary
They should give everyone a refund.. and shut down their business... going bankrupt.. I don't care. No cancer.. but prison time if needed. Nothing can justify their actions or lack their of.
My main issue is them not communicating very well. It just comes off as very blunt, and I can see that pissing people off. I am going to pay because I got Wave 1 and frankly I feel like the game is incomplete, I wasn't intending to sell the game anyway since it is a decent game.
I backed JoA and Reich Busters, and they did a decent job. So I thought I could expect the same from Darkest dungeon. But man was I wrong. They hold my game hostage, so I will pay the ransom. But if they think this is a sustainable business model…. Nope, I won’t support them again, another publisher on my blacklist.
Thanks for your hard work to clarify Mythic's terrible communication. While i do have compassion for the situation they're in and appreciate that they're still trying to deliver, their communication is SO TERRIBLE it's nearly impossible not to be furious at this point. Did they honestly think we wouldn't remember they said we wouldn't have to pay again for wave 2? That along with the fact that the rarely post updates (even though in a May or June update they said they were committed to providing monthly updates). Mythic, if you're listening, please rethink your communications strategy. While most of us would certainly be angry to learn we had to pay more, it's SO disingenuous and insulting to pretend you never made a promise you now aren't keeping. You should definitely send Michael a gift basket for his practical approach to the situation: everyone DOES lose and lose bigger if the majority of folks don't pay up.
I'm screwed with my full Anastyr pledge aren't I
We can only hope some other company comes in and saves it like Monolith did with OrcQuest Warpath.
Honestly I dont think they should be allowed to continue to get peoples money to deliver their games. I think that mythic needs to fold. I was base pledge on 6 siege and Hel. I didn't pay the contribution cause life happened and I couldn't justify the extra funds so im just out tbe $200 plus dollars. Now i will see Rainbow 6 Seige in front of some people but not others. Its like saying, "because you have the ability to pay more than the fraction we got from this guy, you get a great game". You say this isn't a crime like murder but last I checked a ponzi scheme is a felony. Its a real shame. Im just happy Monolith split from this group of theives. I should have seen it then and not backed Seige or Hel. This whole situation has turned me completely off Kickstarter for board games in general now. I see a couple of really good games coming out and im just not going to risk it no matter how confident everyone is in them. I'd rather just go back to Warhammer. At least there I get plastic for my money.
I'm glad this is the only Mythic product I pledged to, I'm just gonna pay the money, get my game and then forget the company ever existed.
Any way to contact you with details of the solomon kane debacle?
Email often works well: contact@kingofaverage.com
we are better than them, don’t say anything bad at all.. blah blah.. keep enabling a bully/scammer, don’t say anything that might hurt their feelings , just give whatever money they ask, be grateful that you are getting a game you already paid for, no worries Mythic games will collaborate with someone in future and continue their business.. soo sick of these people and coverage… no accountability nor consequences.. Good job!!
They are relying on the sunken cost fallacy to get them past the finish line.
Yeah Essen Spiel, a lot of campaigns usually during autumn and then less then a month to pay....I really want this and payed a lot for it but I don't know if I can pay another one or two hundred bucks which would get me a complete other Game.
Yet again they hold games hostage. Can someone just sue these clowns in to oblivion already.
They dont hold hostage anything... for wave 2 , they just want money again to start producing the game or pay them to finalise siege 6 production...
@@vasileiosg7325 🤡🤡🤡
Suing "into oblivion" a company that claims they have no money is going to do.....what...exactly?
Setting a president that these kind of behavior is unacceptable
would only be a civil case and yeah, you might force the company to pay money they dont have after paying off the other more important debitors first (loans, state, banks etc) @@Raggistheguy
Thanks for all you do. I am curious if the push on the licensed IP games is because of fear of legal action from the IP owners. If they're not generating any additional income and they will most likely be black listed what is their motivation for games like Hel?
Being a person that is in pretty deep on Siege 6, man I can't believe how bad they have messed over their fans. My jaw would hit the floor if I heard anyone involved in the mess that is Mythic were willing to support them on any future endeavors. I know if I can make it through this I'm am out for good.
I'm pretty confident they've violated just about every trade law in the EU and France with this ransom strategy. It makes me wonder when the authorities will finally step in.
That's what a lot of EU people have mentioned. I actually kind of find it interesting that crowdfunding doesn't have the sort of contracts most other pay before product/service is completed does. I had my home built and obviously put up a pretty significant amount of money before the house was even built and it was during the whole COVID thing so delays galore, but it was all within a very well defined contract that spoke about time tables, expectations, acts of God and what happens then, substitutions, etc.
I imagine even in the EU this sort of thing (paying for something before creation and delivery, which is estimated some fair amount of time after payment) happens, but crowdfunding has none of that. I feel that makes it feel a bit more "loosey goosey" - thoughts?
(an aside, I'll be going to Spiel and I know you guys will have a booth there - will get in touch this week about that!)
@@TheKingofAverage So basically, when it comes to crowdfunding, there's not really any specific legal framework in place, especially if your business model includes giving something back to supporters-like a product or a perk. In the eyes of the law, this is more or less just a sale. If you're curious about how to handle pricing and why it shouldn't fluctuate, you should definitely google this : EU Consumer Rights on Pricing and Payments. Pretty good stuff there!
According to their former project managers, they've been running the company almost like a pyramid scheme for at least a couple of years. As someone who's managed a business, I can tell you firsthand that COVID didn't really jack up manufacturing costs to the extent they're claiming. Sure, it messed with delivery times because factories were closed, but this talk of sky-high expenses? Nah, it smells fishy. What ticks me off the most is that they're making people cough up almost the full manufacturing cost. It's just ludicrous.
Great post as usual.
Whilst willing to do so, I am a little sceptical about paying out more money when I still have not received my 6 Siege game.
I am definitely in the try to keep the MG doors open so that it gives people at least the chance of getting their games after paying added contributions. I hope that as each one delivers, confidence of the backers will grow and the number of people taking up the option will grow so that more people get their games. Time will tell.
I appreciate your research and explanations. However I think your reasoning is based on truthful information from Mythic. Based on the previous information provided and the fact that those things did not turn out to be true for the most part, at this point I assume everything they say is a lie.
Except that they delivered Wave 1 of DD. They even delivered with Red minis, cause people complained that they changed them to grey. So its about half and half. One of the reasons their is hope they will deliver is because its attached to another IP. If they don't deliver Red Hook might Sue them which they don't want. Reason Why all the IP games are being sent before their non-Ip games.
I am still hopeful for Hel. I am probably wrong to be. But I really really want to get it. 😢
All of the things I am hearing about numerous crowd funding projects, makes me less and less likely to be willing to support projects, even if I really like them as it seems more and more people/companies are using these funding options incorrectly. I am currently waiting for some items from a project I backed almost a year ago now. I understand that things can happen to delay or interrupt a planned timeline, but some of these issues I have seen being said or done, make me be real cynical of such fundraising from here on out. At no time should you be told that you will have to pay more money in order to get the items that you originally pledge money for in return. They can ask supporters to send additional funds if they so wish, but should still send out all items that were promised at time of original pledge. If the items cannot be delivered for price originally stated then either a refund should be issued for the full amount originally pledge or some kind of negotiations take place between parties.
IF you have 6 torches you don't have to pay. You also need a few other items (from the game) and if you have these you won't have to pay more as you have successfully kept the darkness at bay.
Make games, not campaigns a wise person once said.
It mostly feels bad what they are doing. From what I understand they blow a lot of the cash in development and there is not much left for production... this was certainly the case for siege. The far out projects I feel like they should just refund automatically and call it quits. But I guess they already blew that cash to make the campaigns as well.. Especially when you hear a given campaign fell short of funding even though there was actually a good amount of funding.
Mythic games probably way overspent on making the campaigns and falls way short when the time comes to make the game.
It just feels bad.
This came as no surprise to me. What did surprise me slightly is that they seem to be sticking to their Darkest Dungeon wave 1, Six Siege, Darkest Dungeon wave 2 THEN Hel delivery plan.
Man, I'm still praying they make it to finish monsterpocalypse. That's the only thing I'm on the hook for with them.
I would rather they finish trying to fulfill everything they can and sell off everything when finished and fold.
Same, hopefully they can make it through all their games and then go a different direction to where they can be more successful
what really frustrates me, I have about 1000$ in three of their campaign locked. I requested a refund on all three 2022 july, nothing received yet. I wrote them an email about 1,5 months ago that they should apply my paid amounts for Siege and another KS to Darkest Dungeon so I could at least receive product from W1+W2 of that KS....obviously no reply
Mythic has me blocked on Facebook for asking if my refund has been processed since I didn't want to pay them again.
Let mythic burn. The ransom they want now isn’t even to help ship wave 2, it’s going to toward helping 6 siege get finished. Wave 2 hasn’t even started production. Mythic can go to hell.
lets hope someone will jump in and save HEL. like monolith with orcquest
Your statement at the end where sometimes it's too late for an apology is accurate. I fall in to the camp of I gave them money and now have nothing to show for it. At the time of typing I am about 800 days give or take from and estimated delivery and my game keeps getting pushed further and further back. I know they said the money is gone and that's why they are asking for more, but I like thousands of others would really like to know how was 2.2 million spent, or how 5.6 million was spent or how 1.5 million, and I could keep going. Its not like games were just funding, they were all over funded but somehow that is all gone and just keep asking for more. At some point they will have to be cut off, because if this keeps going they will continue. Will it suck not getting a game, but that is something out of our control.
Mythic is a poor organization. There’s no way around it anymore. The industry can only be improved by their eventual and inevitable absence. I don’t understand advocating for their survival in any way. If people’s money is gone, it’s gone. Stop stringing everyone along.
Still waiting for a refund when I put in a request for one the same day they announced refunds. Has anyone gotten a refund or what?
Even as a non-english native speaker i can't be THAT hard to make i quick translation for the word "sorry". I am pretty sure they have that one aswell in french.
haha I'm not so sure the French have a word for it based on my general board game coverage :P
This is just shady on so many levels…
They shouldn’t never have asked for anything Wave 2 related the first time round, especially when they were no where near ready for production / shipping. Why charge for extra shipping costs when they have no idea what they’ll be at the time of shipping?
Now, because they did it this way, it feels like they deceived backers to get them to pay more thinking this was a one off payment. If they’d have said up front this is wave 1 only, backers would have been much more hesitant to pay and far angrier.
This is an absolute dumpster fire of “mythic” proportions but not surprising with their track record post Kickstarter collapse. When I saw how much we had to pay for 6 siege I knew it was bad news for Darkest Dungeon with its initially modest “contribution”.
I Late Pledged so I haven't gotten any info at all as ov 1230pm CST. I know they sent me the info for the 1st shipping fees for wave 1. If you talk to them please tell them not to forget us Late Pledgers as we gave them our money too, and KS didn't take any from our Pledges
Thanks for the update, I hope I see you at Essen!
Have they not sold much through their store to supplement this disaster then?
I keep seeing ads on facebook
Thank you for the clarifications Michael! I only backed Darkest Dungeon 2nd Wave for a language version. It is so sad that they are struggling so badly but also amazing that they still try to make it possible. Their games are amazing.
I will most likely contribute and hope they pull through. Would so love to play DD with my friends.
That said people still seem to believe that crowd funding is a shopping mall ... No! You give money towards a dream in the hope that dream becomes reality. Like with all types of speculation you can not expect to always win. The money you invest can not be the money you need for a living but only what is spare.
I have funded quite a few board games in the past 5 years and I am quite surprised how few really do fail even if they were barely funded. For small Indie companies it can be already hard if members get ill let alone wordwide events mixing up the economy and still the delivered.
And while Mythic are trying to make it happen I'd wish for a more open communication and less cryptic announcements. It would allow me to feel more confident, to be a honored part of it instead of a means to an end. But then there is that amazing game that I really really want ... :P
At least some reasonable comment here. Yes, paying more sucks but Darkest Dungeon is worth it. End of story.
I have backed Hel last Saga, all in. I would be sad if i never get i, not because the lost money, but because it look like a game for me. The money was already lost, then l spent it on "further entertainment".
Great coverage, Michael! Re: to fold or continue, I feel Mythic is actually doing the right thing. Canceling their business means affecting way more backers who might've not minded paying extra to see their games be made and not lose their initial pledge funds. Continuing may upset backers time and again with every shipment but we are not more emotionally affected besides the momentary anger or resentment. Think about those at Mythic. They willingly are putting up with hate, outrage and stress on a daily base!!! Yet they continue, knowing full well, they'll never regain our trust to back a new project again. And these are GAMES we're talking about. Can you imagine the irreparable harm they are, again, willingly wanting to expose themselves to daily for an entertainment product? Cuz make no mistake, constant stress does eat away away at your health. So, yes, I do believe Mythic is being noble about this despite their lack of tact. And that guy who wished them cancer? He oughtta be careful how the universe deals with poetic justice. Just saying, those who live by harm end up succumbing to it. Peace, Michael and continue to do the right type of content. You're awesome.
Any news on Monpoc?
None except it's pretty much for sure not going to be their next game to work on.
As someone who lost a bout $300 on the Village Attacks Grim Dynasty KS, I would rather pay more to get it than have the company go under and officially have thrown away those funds.
A rough situation all around. I was lucky to dodge the bullet on darkest dungeon but was very close to backing as I loved the video game.
I think at this point like you said it is very difficult on any route that consumers go and the company but in some ways I think unfortunately the best route (imo)really is to cut the losses on their games as it will be an ongoing issue for years and years with the backlog of campaigns Mythic created, if you have more than just this backed it is going to keep hurting over and over again and it starts becoming less about money and more about sanity, emotions, and principles at this point.
I am truly horrified and saddened that such a situation continues to beat on our fellow gamers and community and wish it would just end for the sake for everyone involved, even if unfortunately it means not getting the game.
That is just my thoughts on it though, appreciate the coverage and communication as always KOA!
Weird news, I might have won a copy of Dante in the community giveaway, but couldn't confirm yet. I find it hard to believe that many "João O." were participating :3
Aren't u consulting for that?
Reach out to them via this email: customerservice@wearecgs.com
So happy to hear someone from the community here won! Congrats sir - unless it isn't really you in which case that other jerk stole your name :D
I did ~4d ago, but still gotten no response until now ^^
Anyway, I've mentioned bc I know that u do a good service to the community by sharing all these news. I was already following their campaign and answered the giveaway bf the mention here, but it could have been anyone from us, and specially one that only got to know about it bc of you 😊
Funnily enough, I really wanted darkest dungeon, but didn't have the cash at the time. I'm glad I missed it, but still wish I could have gotten a copy...
I'm pretty sure you will not get refunded at this point before they go out of business. Their queue for refund from multiple kickstarter projects are going to take years to process even if they have the funds. So i feel the only choice I have is pay the ransom for the chance to getting something or just consider the whole pledge a loss.
Hey Mike I actually do have a question for you or something I know I and a lot of other people would love for you to look into, Reggie games is a bit behind on their updates for this month, we were supposed to get the final shipping prices for Primal a week ago and from the looks of it, they have not been answering any questions for half of the month.
The model that Mythic followed by using the last KS to fund the next one fell over. However, Mythic is at least trying to deliver rather than close down and backers get zero. I am not happy but there are many examples of the latter. I backed most of their games and hope they will deliver the backlog.
I'll start the list:
Broken Anvil Miniatures
I was a mythic games guy for sure and went all in On several games. Thankfully only went with basic on DD, and skip out on Anastyr, but still holding out hope that my all in for Hel the last saga, eventually pans out, though I’m sure there will be a heft ask for additional contributions at that time. Sadly it’s no longer a good place @ the Mythic Inn.
This was a really great video, thanks for the information and your work on getting answers, I’m one that is stuck in the middle about all of this, the game itself is honestly a fantastic game, it pulls the feel and atmosphere of the video game really damn well and I highly recommend it to fans of that and fans of board games, but of course like others I’m upset over how they managed their money and how we got here.
I contributed the first wave and I’ll be doing it again cause I want the rest of this great game, I’m mad but also happy they are fighting to still get their games out to us and that they didn’t just disappear and give us nothing
I had a feeling this was coming again but I’ll be helping to get my stuff cause I think they make great games, I get why some are far more upset than I am and they have every right to be cause it’s an expensive investment but at the very least, don’t be spouting garbage answers about people getting cancer, let’s be better than that okay people?
Well said. I’m doing the same. I hope we both get the rest of our pledge!
I'll be paying the new contribution, even though they said we wouldn't have to (as you addressed), because I want everything I paid for. But I don't think I'll ever spend another cent on a Mythic product after this fiasco.
I think we're just about all in agreement on that last part :(
Thank you for the effort you put in this video. As a backer I do not like the topic…but you managed to talk about it in a very constructive way.
Yeah sorry it's not a more fun subject >.
Sad to have to pay more, but my game group and I have had an amazing time playing this and think it worth the additional cost to add more content. Too bad the company ended up where it is.
Hey King of Average. Question for you. Is Game Work Create still in business? A comment on Facebook claims they are not responding to him and they haven’t updated their Facebook in a long time. Just curious before I order from them.
Yes they are! You are smart to verify though. I'll let them know about the FB thing.
@@TheKingofAverage thank you. Also just so you know and can tell your follower, the Gaming Goat Las Vegas has been purchased and is under new management. I got ripped off because former management didn’t order some games they offered preorders on I.e. Marvel Zombies Devourer Pledge and who knows what else. The new company Knight and Day Games is just cancelling those orders and didn’t tell me. I found out myself and when I emailed them they told me I had to proceed with disputing the charge with my CC. I’m in the process right now, but since it’s been so long, I don’t know if I’ll get my money back.
Great video. I went into this video pretty upset that I have to pay more as well. But despite me being still upset, you have made an insightful video that was fairly unbiased. Thank you.
i look forward for the next video in this saga. will they deliver or ask for more money.
the communication is so difficult beacause they lie in every update, in every project they have in crowdfunding...
“For anyone who has already did the contributions with wave 1,you will NOT be asked for any additional contribution when wave 2 is getting ready to ship. You initial contribution covered shipping for both waves. This is only for those backers who ordered a language product outside of EN and have not be asked for a contribution."
No longer the case sadly :(
@@TheKingofAverage Yes so I read. It always baffles me how companies can be like that. Why should I trust them now? Again give them money and then? They could just say "Oh well..wasn't enough...more...MORE!"
I have to say I do want to see people get their product, but then Mythic Games should be done and burried. Awful experience!
Thanks for your videos, Michael. Please keep up the good work!
You've grown up. Thank you. I am here as a sub.
I'm really happy to read this. Not so much the sub part (but of course I'm happy to hear that too!) but because I've put in a lot of effort to handle myself better on this platform and while I've had some missteps along the way, it's reaffirming and encouraging to hear it's been noticed. :)
@@TheKingofAverage I found your channel during the pandemic and liked your angle, but did unsubscribe a couple of times after some of your rant video. I very much appreciate your new approach. Thank you for taking that step.
BTW Marco said, he wrote some part of the update and handed it forward, they only took a portion of his writing, last word of the update has the marketing, which we all know is the worst that can happen.
On another note, if Marco ever leaves Mythic, we are fucked, this guy litterly runs this show in the background, w/o him everything would be way worse.
i'm surprised marco hasn't left yet, who would want to work for a company like this is beyond me and must be soul crusing@@Chris-AT
Sadly, I don't think there's any mystery to the mixed messages from different employees. You simply can't trust or believe anything they say.
For Solomon Kane we were all supposed to get replacement minis for a known defect. They "paused" those replacements claiming they needed a new packaging solution. Dragged that messaging along. A year plus later and they sold the game rights and the replacement minis are on miniature market.
For Darkest Dungeon they said they were fielding support requests. I've been trying to get replacements for damaged or malformed cards. Marco said he sent the requests in March. Shocker - nothing and now he ignores my follow-ups.
Now the wave 1/2 debacle.
I have 0 confidence in anything they say. Will they deliver Wave 2? Maybe. But the excuses and explanations are BS. And lord help you if you need support for damaged or missing pieces.
I'm grateful that they are trying to keep the company limping along long enough to allow backers to choose. Neither getting nothing nor paying more are good options, but we can at least choose. Working to stall the inevitable collapse of the company has to suck majorly - there's no chance that anyone but the backers is better off from this course of action. Meagre as the benefit of choice is, I believe its the best outcome available in this atrocious situation. I'm only waiting on Monsterpocalypse, but I hope they can limp along long enough that I can eventually get it.
Well made video I really think this is one of your best ones. I feel bad for everyone who backed these games I was an early Mythic hater and it ended up saving me a lot of money
Thanks you Michael for the update. Ok... so where is the Monsterpocalypse money... were is the Anatyr money ? The all "money collected go where it should" is complete crap ! Did you asked that question ? Because there's a lot more than DD and 6siege... The only way to pass all the anger is with a jugde, and Léo and his partner assuming all this crap in front of justice.
What would happen if you sell for 7 millions of furnitur to Google or IBM and never deliver anything ? Do you think they would let go and not ask for compensation or sentence to discourage anybody to do the same ?
Oh for sure in the past the money wasn't bucketed. Perhaps that's the case now too and they are lying. But I do know they did deliver wave 1 on e paid. And did 6 Siege once paid.
@@TheKingofAverage yeah... I think it's long gone. I asked my refund for Anastyr one year ago. Why wouldn't they refund Anastyr or all the game not in production when asked if they still had the money ? I think they spent it for DD...
So what happened to all the funds that were raised from selling the rights to all the games to CMON and Monolith etc?
Great question. I'll do some digging.
thats what i didnt like, they took the money from the KS and paid wages (i know they are a company) but the funds made was towards MAKING the game, not paying for their wages. (they ensured they took long time, studio and everything for this.
Thanks for the prompt update. Interesting that they to say that they can pretty much go straight into production (noting it will go on for quite a while past the contributions phase) so quickly, guessing they are feeling pretty certain or maybe they have more funds than they are letting on. I also still think the refunds are really not helping zt this point.
They said the same for 6 Siege. That all they have to do is "hit the print button" and that if you paid the additional charge the games would be delivered October 2023. They have already delayed to March 2024 for fulfillment
They know the bad news from months and they always wait till last minute to share them to avoid backlash but I think that is worst and create more backlash… they are very terrible on hoe they communicate stuff
I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the reputational toll these decisions are taking. I understand they feel like they have no choice but to request the contributions in order to deliver the games, but hypothetically best case, that they get out from under all this and deliver all the outstanding games, what then? Who backs another Mythic game after all this?
Maybe deliver R6 first and then ask for money. How do we know the money isn't just going straight to R6?!?
Valid point
Hopefully I was able to convert my pledge for Anastyr for online shop credit and got DD instead, which I sold immediately as I was not interested in that game.
Throughout this whole debacle with DD your channel has been a reliable and balanced source of summarised information. I thank you for that. I’m in roughly the same position as you, albeit slightly more out of pocket. I backed the Ancestral Pledge on GF plus the sleeves, compendium etc. all in 605USD. Then paid $75 for shipping. Then paid $69 extra to get “wave 1”.
Latest “demand” is 108USD to receive remaining 4 expansions, the darkest heroes and the compendium. No sign of any “deduction” for the previously paid amounts I might add. I’m ok to pay this extra amount as long as I can be certain that the wave 2 content will actually ship. To spend $800+ plus on this game and end up with only the core and one expansion would be really really hard to stomach. I doubt anyone can guarantee that Wave 2 will be shipped to those that pay [again] but do you think it will? And are you going to pay that extra $100??
Will pay to get the rest of my game again but I will never back another project from them
So while I don't think bankrupcy is the answer, they probably should try to sell off the remaining ips and properties that they own, that weren't previously sold off inorder to pay salaries as well as come up with the rest of the money to actually produce and deliver the games. Comments that leo made about not taking a salary for 5 months really makes you worry about how close to the red line they are of closing up shop and calling it a day, as most people can't survive with 0 pay for half a year. Right now im in on Six Siege/Hel, Mon Poc, while i might get six siege, but the all in for Mon poc is my biggest concern, because the company will most likely fail before every delivering it.
I am so confused. I thought they had finished shipping everything especially since they were selling copies on their website.
Wave 1 only
@@TheKingofAverage ah gotcha
All I wanna know is: how did you get DARK MODE on the KS page ?
NVM found it :D
There are not that many boardgame creators out there for mini heavy games. Any company going out of business is a loss for us all. At the same time I can understand to not pay the extra.
In the end I hope mythic can stabilize somehow and provide good service in the future, for now mythic will be problematic, so they have to clear all their open projects first. A good future for them would be to go the reprint / sale in their own store route to keep risk low and then go from that point.
Reprints cost money upfront that they don't have.
Their store has been sending non-stop emails to buy their overstock of all the previous games. They can't even sell at 50% off.
I'm so glad I only did $1 for Anastyr, but I'm still on the hook for DD and Hel. I've got very mixed feelings on this as part of me still wants the games, but another part wants them to just sell off the rest of their projects and go away. They really have completely destroyed their reputation with the repeated lies, broken promises, and terrible communication.