Monsterpocalypse 6,370 backers pledged $1,310,177 Anastyr 5,569 backers pledged $1,079,826 to help bring this project to life. 2.3 milling from 12,000 people. This isn't including all the people burned my darkest dungeon who pledged and didn't ransom. The necro game too. 2,712 backers raised $317,096.00 O i forgot hel the last sage, 17,757 backers pledged $2,215,842 to help bring this project to life. That really changes it. 1.3 + 1 + 2.2 +.3= 4.8 milion. not including late pledges. from 35,000 people.
Yes cuz we also got Mythic Battle Ragnorak and the new Egyptian version too, and if that split had not happened, then money for those games, or the games would have been vanished.
@@tayhhuck What you mean? That I did not pay 120€ for nothing? That I get an AllIn for not paying for an AllIn in the beginning? That I got the game? Or do you mean the game? The communication after delivery? Bug Fixes? What is you question aiming at?
@@EarthenGames 👏 👏 hehehehe (retarded laughing) people got fucked for millions of bucks but at least some people got some exclusive prototypes heheheeh
@@tgeorgom Not sure why you're asking me, I'm not the one who scammed everyone lol. @Ghost_council said "...that should be illegal." And my response to that was "It is.", because what Mythic did with the shipping charges is a form of mail fraud. Why could argue the Kickstarter stuff is covered by Kickstarter's boilerplate, but the shipping contributions? That's 100% a criminal act.
If you paid tax to a company you can claim a tax refund with a receipt from the nation you paid it, nation depending of course. Good luck of course but depending on where you are it certainly can be a thing.
They had 20-30 employees on the payroll (with generous French social benefits) and renting office space in one of the most expensive cities in the world. That alone is probably $3 million per year in expenditures. Combine that with delays in their games, poor quality control where they had to ship replacements to tons of backers, increased manufacturing and logistics costs, and general mismanagement and that's likely where the millions went. As soon as Sam Healy left and people were laid off the writing was on the wall. They should have failed at that moment versus lying about the situation, asking people for contributions, and causing more pain. The horrible handling of Time of Legends Joan of Arc was my first red flag on them. Super Fantasy Brawl was the last game I backed from Mythic Games so I didn't lose any money.
@@Dandyphonic thats pretty much it. + inflated ego so they couldnt properly communicate nor seek for help or solutions +extreme overstaffing on hel which probably ate up ~10mil in production costs.
Game companies should never be renting office space in expensive locations. Better to be outside the city and past the suburbs where it's usually a lot cheaper to find a place to setup, especially given that if it's not a retail location, being out there isn't that much of a hindrance.
I backed Monsterpocalypse with the hope to play with my son. I assumed the miniatures just required tooling for plastic molds, but everything else was already done for nearly a decade as privateer press had done the actual sculpts and rules. 12 months seemed fast, but I assumed it was just scale production. I was very disappointed that even if the game was to arrive my son is too old to play now. I assumed I lost about 500 dollars, but the time I was hoping to spend with my son playing Monsterpocalypse matters more than the money. Reality is staff costs about 60-70k a year (with benefits) per person. 20-30 employees will cost 2 million a year before production, etc.
I have lost at least a 1000 € to this company. Most of it for Monsterpocalypse but I also backed Hel and miss some things for Joan of Arc. Crazy that a company can missmanage this much money without big legal consequences for the responsinble persons.
They're paying people. But as a backer, you're not even people. You *crowdfunded* them. You gave them an interest-free loan, with no strings or liability attached. This isn't about a corporation/person. This is about Kickstarter and Gamefound offering your money to companies without any liability on the company's end with the potential of you getting something for being so "nice". Welcome to crowdfunding.
I paid $69 for the base 6: siege, then $30 for the shipping then they asked me for $120 hostage fee, not as bad as yours but $120 for something I paid $99 in total yeah that was some guts
about $1189 lost on Monsterpocalypse, Anastyr, and Hel. Not sure how to count Darkest Dungeon. it was planned to cover about 3 years of Christmas presents for my son and myself and buying Viking Chess meant to be gifts for some friends. We personally met Leo at Gencon and got our picture with him. He acted so cool and nice. Never had any doubt we'd get an awesome product delivered from him. The betrayal from him personally is the worst thing. Leo was so loved and he used that against us. sorry but I hope the worst for him if he does nothing to redeem himself to us. I'd be satisfied with an honest apology video and the files from all the undelivered games
Rumours said, they had one of the most expensive offices in paris around 10k€/month, they hired their painters and they had 2-3 of them, the rest is history Fun fact, he now opened a finiancial advisor company XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD just epic
What makes me most angry about this situation, much more for Darkest Dungeon than for Hel, is that in this case the game exists, it has been partially produced and many are appreciating it. I instead was left with nothing just because I was hoping for a translated version that was never made. If I had bought the English version at least I would have had the base game, instead we who were waiting for the translated version were the ones who were really *******
I was all in on Anastyr and had a copy of HeL ordered. What would be great is if CMON spat on Mythic's grave and announced one of those campaigns in the next few weeks lol. If CMON brings me those games, as much BS as they pull sometimes, I will be a CMON fan for a long long time in the future.
It will keep on happening because consequences for those responsible are too lenient. They should have to pay all those backers back, and if they can't, they need to go to jail, instead of just opening a new company.
@@bosshobo6022 Leo explicitly took people's money for 'shipping' knowing full well that his company was never going to deliver and was heading into insolvency. That isn't a civil matter, that's literally a form of crime in pretty much every country, to say nothing of the fact that there's a good chance he was also committing a second form of fraud by using later Kickstarter to pay for earlier productions. Leo 100% deserves jail time for this, it's irresponsible to let obvious fraudsters get away just because individually no one lost that much money. On the whole millions of dollars in fraud occurred.
@chrisstephens6022 the issue is that this was blatant fraud. They said multiple times what money was for, promising people would get product, wouldn't have to pay multiple times, etc. And we had every single issue they said we wouldn't. And they knew, yet they still took everyone's money. Fraud is illegal
@@bosshobo6022 Easy solution: it's not debtor's prison, but fraud. There's a difference in having to go to jail because you can't pay your bills, or because you just frauded thousands of people and can't pay them back.
@@TRENCHESandTREADS Not when the money given is considered a gift. Your looking at it as if backers are investors on a project, when their really just gifting their money to see if a project succeeds. People already tried Sueing Leo and others and it didn't work because of the fine print on Kickstarter. Basically its seen as if we knew the risk, that we should have seen this coming, and that we took a chance and lost a bet.
I got out at $400 spent before they asked for more money a second time. I refused to pay the second shipping fee as I had a feeling nothing was ever going to ship. The money went into the CEO's bank. Pretty simple.
i can bet that didn't happen. Dude is not living it up. plus with the liquidation he has to show he's broke, it was just horribly mis managed, to many full time staff. Paying the production companies more then what they had kickstarted. It probably all started with joan of arc. The legal fees from the lawsuit. the having to reship everything. Once that started every campaign after that was literally paying for the campaign before it. Plus they delivered some games right at the start of covid and paid the outrageous shipping stuff and didn't say anything then.
My number is 0 because ive never backed anything mythic. I listened and didnt get any of the games. Whispers were enough for me not to trust i would get everything.
My number is 0 too. I did pledge Darkest Dungeon, but I took only base game, which did delivered. I decided to buy add-ons later if I like the game, but thankfully I did not decided to invest.
I backed Reichbusters, Solomon Kane, and Darkest Dungeon wave 1. If it wasn't for also backing Hel, I would have made it through the Mythic Gauntlet unscathed!
I think a lot of this really started with Solomon Kane, three or four years late and a project was full of mistakes, right busters with similar. Experience with Solomon was so bad. I stopped her stuff and bought a few things on sale. After it was produced.
Down 1097 dollars....I'm really kicking myself for not doing my research before I backed. I heard of Monpoc through one of my friends, but didn't like the price point, so having a fully realized game for a quarter of the price compared to ordering each set separately seemed like such a good idea at the time....but hindsight is 2020. And of course I went all in on Anastyr as well not realizing they were both the same company.... For someone who lives off of a single income, that's such a lot of money....I wish I had my 3D printer around that time so I didn't have such a want to back miniatures-based games...but it is what it is. So sad this happened, and I'm so sorry to the rest of you that have to deal with this....
I'm down 360 dollars on Anastyr and looks like I'm screwed over by Lazy Squire Games with Wild Assent. I'll lose 400 dollars with that. 760 bucks total. Really sucks.
I'm in a similar boat. I didnt back Anastyr since I backed 3 or 4 others that hadn't delivered. It made me change things for other campaigns and having a self-imposed back only 1 game until its delivered rule. Sucks man...
My mistake was confusing Monolith for Mythic. 😢😢. Went all in on Anastyr. And they instantly charged shipping, which was clearly a scam. How are these guys not in jail right now. Millions of dollars stolen.
@@timf7354 I've slowed down from crowd funding because of this debacle and also due to games just costing too much. The last game I backed was Nemisis Retaliation in December 2023
Somehow lost nothing in all this. 200+ crowdfunders backed, including absolutely these sort of games (plenty of stuff from Awaken Realms, Into The Unknown, KDM) and yet somehow never backed a Mythic game in all that time. I'd like to say I'm a genius that saw it coming before their company even started but reality is it was just dumb luck!
Unfortunately, there are people like me who are not in the know of what's going on when they see it on crowdfunding. I went all-in on 6-Siege and, much later than I could've done a chargeback, heard about their shady history.
I think the only question they need to answer is have they passed all the backers details for HEL and Anastyr to CMON as that was the deal they made with CMON, sell them those games and backers get a free copy.
I wished for more research. Mythic Games Luxembourg is the parent company. All the relevant contacts were with that company. We don't know what the purpose of the French company was. Maybe, payment of French employees and they simply don't want to give them their outstanding payment. Nobody knows. Maybe, Mythic Games is completely gone, maybe those cronies are still active with Mythic Games Luxembourg. This video was a bit premature. Even on your discord, this has been discussed.
Got Lucky, The Everrain was in trouble. Stopped all kick starters except CMON. I am out, too much headaches. Still waiting for Dawn of Madness, Return to Apocalypse and Ancient Blood!
So doing some arm chair math and knowing nothing about the business I think this started with Joan. Funded in 2019 and "delivered" around early 22. I think they used the darkest dungeon money to pay for the increase in shipping prices and all the "replacements parts" etc etc. If you look at the timeline starting in feb of 20 till Oct 20 they had 4 kickstarters. If you take the darkest dungeon money it was probably used to finish up and ship Joan,enchanters,steam, and brawl. That left them probably less than halfish. With covid delays/shipping and other bills piling up Hel,monster, anast and the "double shipping payments" were used for the first wave of darkest and siege as well as trying to keep face and the lights on. Still a lot of money unaccounted for but I mean they probably did pay for test molds,prints etc etc for the other games they didn't deliver and of course paying themselves. No excuses for lying and robbing "John" to pay "Paul". Screw Mythic.
I said this before, but they have ruined crowdfunding for me. Story of Many looks like a game I would love, but I can't back it after what happened with Mythic. I'll likely only back CMON, and buy retail for other games now.
I agree... This soured me so much, that I just watch crowdfunding now and won't support though. Companies like Mythic, BLG, Lazysquire, Limbo Miniatures and Peterson Games... I'm done with it... Hundreds of dollars that could have gone to a better place. Lesson learned, no more crowdfunding. Now I just watch KOA because I enjoy his content
It is always a risk, but all in all I think it is mostly dependent on how much research you do. I had one Kickstarter so far that hasn't delivered, and that wasn't even a board game but a book. Check if a company has not yet delivered campaigns, how many, what did they do when delivering, how was the general reception, what is their track record, and then you have a good picture that minimizes risk. I never backed anything from Mythic because they always seemed on the edge with too many campaigns and not enough delivery. Also, they are French. The bad campaigns I was part of always came from French studios and publishers (they all delivered, but it's dicey and they don't seem to like their customers)
@SirBlackjack010 Could not agree more on the research part. I was very interested in Roborover 2077 by Giimoe. Then realized the main base component was previously kickstarted as a kids toy that went undelivered and was folded into the current game. Immediately changed my mind. That said, they've got a lot of backers and I do hope they get a good product.
I suspect that Solomon Kane was the beginning of the end here. I'll bet MG paid a significant license fee for that property. I remember there being an air of disappointment from MG's responses during the campaign which caused me to drop my pledge. I think this shortfall started this "pay it backwards", Ponzi-ish thing that quickly started to drown them. If I had to further guess it would be that they also had contracts with artists that effectively locked them into salary or payment of some kind to said artists for X projects or X number of years. MG were trying to bill themselves as one of the top 5(ish) preeminent crowdfunding game companies but they got over their skis and started to reduce their communication to backers. That's gut-check time and that instinct to pull back is an indication that more honesty, transparency, and communication is required, not less. But that's not a native instinct to most people as they try to quietly fix the problem(s). No excuses on their part but if I'm right, all the clues of this cratering failure were there many years ago.
I keep looking at everyone’s totals and thinking… am I a giant idiot? The answer? Yes. Yes I am. Needless to say I don’t back a fraction of what I used too. Monsterpocalypse makes me the angriest. At this point they were well beyond knowing it was a scam. Used a known and established IP and basically stated the design was all but done as well. $1,500. (Somehow with all the change it came out to a very even number, which the math nerd in me found entertaining.)
Between Anastyr and Darkest Dungeon, I'm personally out around $1,200. Seriously considering trying to reverse the charge for wave 2, even though it's from so long ago. If Leo starts another company, I would make it a priority to do everything I realistically can to ensure it fails. There's nothing more to be gained from this situation except satisfaction.
The only project under mythic games that I pledged was Enchanters East Quest. Which I only joined since I was a previous backer to the last Enchanters campaign which belonged to Gindi a Polish game company. But sadly they sold Enchanters to Mythic Games which was the worst thing they could have done as we now see. But we did get Enchanters content and even another small expansion sometime after the main campaign but it was straight preorder from their website. One thing they did promise but did not complete was giving old backers a whole set of the cards we already had but in the new printing format since cards did change.
Ancestral Pledge for Darkest Dungeon. Paid both contributions. I had decided to switch from French to English to make sure that I get something, so I wave wave one.
It's like Ninja Division and the Relic Knights 2.0 campaign- I backed it for $200+ like 5 years ago and the only thing I have received so far was a Kingdom Death crossover figure that was fulfilled by that developer and not Ninja Division. The funniest part is some of the units I purchased separately from the new game components are existing figures to flesh out my warbands and they didn't even ship those
Between DD, Monsterpocalypse and Anastyr I think I lost around $1200. Though aren't we still getting a core box of Anastyr from Cmon at some point, so if that's true then a little bit less. Personally more mad at myself for getting these games, despite seeing the Red Flags with Joan of Arc and Hel. At that point I was more like "this looks cool" I will just back it, instead of looking for problems that a company might have. Now I wait for second printings of a game, or if I know the company delivers before I back. Like if I was thinking the same way back then that I do now, I probably still would have gotten DD, but would have not backed Monsterpocalypse or Anastyr.
The quality control issues were hugely indicative of how they ran the company. It’s what happens with nepotism and hiring people for their immutable characteristics over competency and then not holding them accountable for work product. Combine this with the fast money of crowdfunding for people without having proven themselves in business and it’s a recipe for exactly what happened here. There was simply no excuses for that many errors even in the errata for Joan of Arc. People got hired and people didn’t work.
@kingofaverage, I mainly learned to research companies and have to say since I went all-in on Anastyr + VAT & shipping ($660) I now try to back vader pledges only and pay as late as possible to see if there's any red flags coming up. Sad to never see that game as it looked so cool. Still waiting for CMON semi free version, no update on that since the announcement on January this year. Do you have any info on that?
Mythic was bad at accounting, project management, and forecasting. Basic business principals. They mixed all the money together and didn't have separate accounts for their projects, so they could not tell how much each project was in the red. And like another commentator stated, their payroll was huge and their overhead was out of control.
So glad I didn't fall for the Darkest Dungeon funding plea. After I recevied my original core box, I was astounded when I received the email/plead asking for additional funds to pay for the rest I didn't receive. At that point I was already so frustrated with the delays and mixed messaging from them I decided to throw in the towel early. Bummed out, but happy I am only out a couple hundred where I see others are out so much more. I've only been burned by 2 other KS's. So 3 out of about 75 or so? I'm okay.
Number is not delivering project to backers Two is making backers pay and pay again for shipping (that wont be used to deliver games Three not delivering to online buyers
I lost aBerserk pledge for Hel the Last Saga plus Viking chess, playmats and trays. All total with shipping $289.00. Though I did win a Joan of Arc all in from you so I am kinda ahead on the Mythic curve. What really sucks is they made great games and to me that is the biggest lose.
I’m out $130.00 on Anastyr. Received 6 Siege all in (luckily). Not sure if I’ll get the CMON copy if and when they do that campaign but I pledged the bare minimum (sensing an issue). I really kind of lucked out. DD I bought at my FLGS and was looking forward to buying extra copies of wave 2.
Nah man, it's simple to see funds were not spent correctly. Whether malicious or not, still complete incompetence. The Jerk store from Sans Detour (also French...) Blew all the money from that campaign. Discovery in court showed he was living the high life. This has happened enough, I am not backing anywhere near as much. Too many creators live off hopes and dreams.
I’m glad I never got caught up backing the most recent Mythic Games games. I can’t say the same for Lazy Squire Games. I’m hopeful they deliver on Wild Assent even if it takes 5 years. I look forward to your video on them!
Lost 590$ on Darkest Dungeon and 606$ on Anastyr so around 1200$ for me... Still waiting for Dawn of Madness (2019) and ISS vanguard (2021). I was slowing down on crowdfunding the last two years, but I'm just gonna stop completely, it doesn't woth it.
where are you residing? In Europe, I can tell you that I have received Dawn of Madness a few months ago and ISS Vanguard has been around in backers homes for quite sometime already. That is quite a shame that you are still waiting. I am sorry
It turns out the Mythic isn't officially dead, ...at least not yet. The filing was to liquidate a subdivision and not the whole company. It isn't a good sign, but remember the words of the Black Knight...
You hit the true issue at around the 19 minute mark. How the hell does KS allow the same people to scam people out of money over and over again? KS needs to be held legally liable for these failures.
@@TheKingofAverage Anything in that office. The UK branch is still active according to company house. Of course I can't tell you if that or Luxemburg is just a matter of time.. I mean we assume it is but as of now the company still exists on paper.
@@TheKingofAverage Hey Michael, the french studio, which was hiring people and designing/developing games, is gone (it was an empty shell for years). The main legal entity (owning the remaining assets), located in Luxemburg, is still there.
I backed Solomon Kane way back when it was first announced but after years of delay and further delays to "improve quality" I knew I needed to get my money back. From what I know, it's an amazing game but I did not agree with their decision making to significantly delay the game. The only game of theirs I have is Steamwatchers which is quite fun if not that special of an area control game (Kemet, FS, and War of the Ring are way better). Anyways, I did read Leo's BGG post clarifying himself and his company and you guys might not like this, but I do feel bad for him. Yeah, he and his associates messed up but they're still only human. The way I see it is if I lose money investing into a stock, that's just bad luck and poor decision making on my end and I need to learn for next time.
Do we know who is liquidating them? Surely it can't be Leo and should be a professional insolvency agent? As creditors, will we get a statement of their financial position, and will we find out the status of their assets? For instance, Wave 2 DD was ready for print. Can that be sold to someone who could then print and deliver it to people willing to pay? I am out over £400 in my investments with them.
So I got all the packages for Joan of Arc, and after I only pledged the $1 late pledges, which I never pursued (had a nagging feeling that things did seem correct) - so only about $5. Buy did I dodge a bullet.
Had to do some digging for this So I backed Darkest Dungeon with the Ancestral Pledge and Bundle, this was 590$ originally The "additional Shipping cost" that were asked for right before Wave 1 were an additional 69$ and an additional 251$ for wave 2 on the mythic website itself. I made the mistake to want another laguage, so I got exactly nothing as of today for paying a total of 910$ Wouldn't have minded to get at least the english version of the game
I had just entered the amazing world of Kickstarter and was on the “I need to build a collection” phase. Everything from Mythic looked like it was the greatest game experience created! Late backed all in on Hel, all in on Rise of Necromancers and all in on Monsterpocalypse… too scared/angry to total it up but man I wish I had known as a Kickstarter newbie to research campaigns/companies before I backed.
Companies shouldn't be like Companies. Here's what I mean. I work for a company and my managers get paid more than I do, fair enough I suppose. Though I don't really know what work they actually do. They also get bonuses... now their managers get paid even more and even more bonuses, again for what work I don't know. You go up to the board of directors where there are some 'non executive directors ' who basically don't do anything yet take home six figures, and I'm not talking minis lol. My point is me and my colleagues are the ones doing the work thay brings the company money. So why do the richer managers and up need to be paid so much more? My company didn't have a CEO for six months and the company was fine. If everyone at the bottom were to disappear the company would be done!
Not sure what industry you're in, but will give you some insights from a small law firm perspective. I currently hire 5 lawyers and 1 secretary. I work on average 10 hours per day, usually 6 days per week, sometimes 7. That's about 60-70 hours per week. 40% of that I spend on doing legal works (e.g., drafting documents, meeting and advising clients, contacting third parties on clients' behalf, double checking and correcting my team's errors, and doing complicated legal works that my team can't do); 30% pitching for new works, writing proposals, negotiating fees, and marketing; and 30% taking care of admin works (e.g., managing clients' expectation and relationships, managing and training my team, processing invoices, chasing overdue fees, doing HR stuff, etc.). On the other hand, my staff usually work regular office hours, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, totaling 40 hours. Sometimes they actually work less than 40 hours per week because I don't have enough work for them to do, so they sit idly in the office chatting or doing whatever they please. Of course, sometimes they work more because we have some urgent works, but that is an exemption, not a norm. I also have to pay them extra for overtime work. They get paid a fixed sum on a fixed day of the month, no matter when the clients pay their bills. I also have to pay for the office rents, utilities, all other costs of running the business, again, no matter when the clients pay their bills. So, in summary, I spend more time working; taking more legal, financial and reputational risks; and bearing more stress than any of my staff. But that's also why I make more money than any of them do. I think it is a fair trade off.
@wayus6309 you sound like a company doing things right. Where I work the management have three hour breaks every day and most of their work is standing around watching everyone to see if there's something they can tell us off for. The management above them have even less to do. The board of directors do less than a day's work, while taking home six figures... all the while things at the bottom get worse with more workload and less time to do it.
Nothing on crowdfunding is a deal anymore. Somehow our community got tricked into thinking spending several hundred dollars on a board game was normal.
It's unlikely, but if it's sitting at a distribution warehouse, awaiting fulfillment but the fulfillment company wasn't paid enough, a large scale group negotiation could be levied. Hundreds of us banded together and managed to get our Rallyman GT/Rallyman Dirt stuff after Holy Grail Games went under but my word did we overpay for shipping. If it wasn't one of my favourite games, I probably would have walked.
This makes me so sad. I can live without ever getting darkest dungeon, but the damage they have done to the board game crowdfunding space is tragic. Edit: In case you were wondering I spent 600 dollars only to receive wave 1. 😅 I was also all in on Hel, at least CMON promised me a game for that haha.
What upsets me is DD is such a GOOD game - really enjoyable. I was really looking forward to wave 2. If it had been a terrible game I wouldn't have been as bothered...
@@jamesrobinson4028yeah isn’t that the kicker? I don’t think people would care nearly as much nor would so many have been suckered in if Mythic Games didn’t make legit board games.
I lost over $1,000 on Monsterpocalypse all in. It’s been enough not just to stop me ever crowdfunding again but to get me out of the hobby completely. Thanks Mythic.
I think the whole 'big board game with tons of minis' market has really started to slow down. Too many delays and too many failed projects were making more and more people hesitant to take the chance. Plus, if you've been at this a while, the amount of space to store it all gets overwhelming. Unless you sell them off after playing through them.
@@JMcMillenI hear you. I have a full sized Kallax unit that has been filled by so much plastic bulk. For some games it’s worth it, but definitely not every game!
Have you talked to a lawyer about this? My understanding is that this was their French legal entity to handle payroll for now long fired employees in France. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Mythic will deliver but this legal notice isn’t what you’re saying it is. The parent company still technically exists and the notice shows the principal is still managing the company.
I have an ability to read people's face and expressions and sort of make very eerily accurate determinations of their behaviors and red flags. That said, from the first time I saw Leo, he reeked of red flags (not worth name calling and being specific on the negative traits I saw) for me so despite really liking many of their projects, i never baked any because i didnt trust him. So I lost $0 thankfully. It really is unfortunate for those who did.
Lost around 640 €. Well, nomen est omen - the games were a myth... at least towards the end... I still remember how people ranted over monolith taking charge of the mythic battle franchise.. saying MG would the more professional of the two... history taught you otherwise.
i paid the ransom for 6:Siege, and I'm glad I did coz that it is the best tactical skirmish game ever made. Shit company but their games were awesome (I have and rate highly SFB as well). I had heard of their previous issues with Joan and Solomon but the SFB experience was smooth so I thought 6:S was a safe bet.
Hmmm, didn't they sell all but one of their offices? Also I think it'd be weird to announce liquidation of an office that has nothing. It chairs and such.
Who will mourn the passing of this company? "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience." - J Caesar
The biggest takeaway from this is that I am glad I listened to your advice/warnings King of Average in the past and have fortunately not fell foul of this situation, I do feel sorry for everyone who has been caught up in it though, I wish I was a millionaire and able to help them but alas I am not in that respect, I am glad though that the community as a whole will come together to support each other :D
21:56 In regards to this. This exact thing happened with Grim Dynasty. Some came in and bought the IP and is trying to find a way to bring the game back to life and gets nothing but hate from backers calling them opportunists out for a buck and inhuman for causing the distress to the backers even though they had nothing to do with the original campaign
I full backed darkest dungeon and paid for shipping so you tell me how much I spent because IDK/remember I got wave 1 and while it sucks I'm not getting 2, if a compony buys it, say 'here's the stock. now pay us again' I will. Or even just buy it. Ultimately, kickstarter is a gamble and we lost. deal with it.
I went into board game world just recently. I felt it so strange when I realised crowdfunding was being used as a tool by companys. I aways saw the crowdfunding as an alternative for lone designers to try to make their games a reality and have an entry to the market. Making profit from it only after the project is concluded. But it seems things are happening far away from this. 🤔
I only did a core pledge for Solomon Kane, which I received. I would have done "Time of Legends: Joan of Arc ", but missed the original campaign and by the time the 1.5 version came around, I had already (mostly) stopped backing big expensive board games with tons of minis. Darkest Dungeons was a bit tempting, but not enough to get me to dive in.
I lost around $300. That was money I lost a long time ago, I’m over it. What bothers me more is not getting the rest of what is a great game, especially the rest of the characters.
8. Willfully misleading potential backers of newly initiated campaigns about the status quo of company and the actual risk evaluation but instead of either being intransparent or straight lying to people to gain the nondeserving trust an money - iliciting money from people by putting out no or false information, i.e. conning or scamming people. And by the same reasoning I would like to see KS and GF held responsible for their part in the scam by taking the money and no action.
I dropped about 400 on Hel. I don't expect to see anything from it. Part of me is excited for the prospects of Darkest Dungeon. If say, Monolith picked it up, they have a good track record with recycling ip from failed companies. If they pull an Orcquest with Darkest dungeon and we can swoop in on the cheap, I might bite. (Granted, the only Mythic game I ever backed was Hel.) I also bought Solomon Kane second hand, which is looking very much worth the purchase now.
It was unfortunate for me that I funded Darkest dungeon. I was fortunate that I backed wave 1. The base game and the crimson court expansion. I paid the ransom, and got the product. I never opened it. It's just a reminder of the stress, and the feeling of being cheated, lied to, and the choice of giving them all that money for nothing, or give them more of my money and get what I paid for. I chose the later, and they can't help but kick me in the nuts when I was charged a brokerage fee of 120 Canadian dollars. I don't see myself backing anymore kickstarters.
Just 1 Hel all-in pledge, luckily. I asked MG for a refund over a year ago which I'm definitely not going to get. So I'm not sure how to act right now because I believe CMON might not have gotten my details now. Anyone have any tips?
Lost 180 for Wave 2 plus the 2 ransoms..... $70 est? Let's just say $250 as an educated guess. At least I got Wave 1. Not a total loss, but ends up being a very expensive game. I wrote this one off long ago. This isn't a surprise.
Should almost be a legal ground to get released the files as is. So sad having so little rights compared to normal buying rights in EU, but if the purchase was done by a credit card its worth looking upon if it is itself has any rights.
659 USD für Darkest Dungeon + 874 USD for Anastyr, + 449 USD Monsterpocalypse +301 USD for Hel: The Last Saga! So.. yeah.. quite some 💸💸💸 down the drain!
man I was so lucky with Mythic games. I was border line going to back Darkest Dungeon and 6 siege. I actually had Darkest Dungeon pledged, but cancelled it before the campaign ended. Figured i would maybe grab it later or in a reprint if it is good.. glad I did..
Lost over $1K on Hel, Anastyr, and Darkest Dungeon Wave 2. When contractors work on commercial projects, they need to purchase a bond that quarantines the project is completed. Maybe it's time that crowdfunding puts in similar requirements so we don't keep loosing money. Also there should be a time limit on how long it takes a creator to deliver a crowd funded project. I am still waiting for 4 games to finish delivering from 2019 and 3 from 2020. That is way too long.
And they kept asking more money, I paid multiple times to receive last expansion already doubting I would get anything... what a scam. Honestly, I stopped pledging anything and no longer even watch Kickstart videos... sorry.
I’m also curious where all those money went. Millions of dollars gone. And now, they’re putting up another company, which Leonidas said he borrowed money to put it up.
I am currently down $500, went in on the rise of the necromancers game. Darkest dungeon for the miniatures, and only got wave 1. I had been emailing them asking for updates, and they kept on responding in the emails to simply check the most recent posts on the backer pages where there was zero updates.
They were scammers. They knew what they were doing. They charged VAT without the intention to pay to the authorities, and they charged expensive shipping without anything to send. With emails like "we are looking forward to send the game you baked...". ALL WERE LIES. No legal repercussions, no money back, gamefound nothing to say, kickstarter looking other way... In my case, "only" 255€ lost. This was the first and the last time I bake something. Never again, and I have about 100 games.
Monsterpocalypse 6,370 backers pledged $1,310,177 Anastyr 5,569 backers pledged $1,079,826 to help bring this project to life. 2.3 milling from 12,000 people. This isn't including all the people burned my darkest dungeon who pledged and didn't ransom. The necro game too. 2,712 backers raised $317,096.00 O i forgot hel the last sage, 17,757 backers pledged $2,215,842 to help bring this project to life. That really changes it. 1.3 + 1 + 2.2 +.3= 4.8 milion. not including late pledges. from 35,000 people.
You can add the shipping fees for all their undelivered KS and VAT for Anastyr.
Pretty sure if you add a bit of mismanaged funds for DD, you’ll end up close to 10 Mil total
But do not call them incompetent or dishonest, they will not accept it….. hahahahah
Isn't Monsterpocalypse by Privateer Press?
@@vermilion7777 new KS was by mythic
I think Monolith was really smart when they split from Mythic and took Mythic Battles with them.
Yes cuz we also got Mythic Battle Ragnorak and the new Egyptian version too, and if that split had not happened, then money for those games, or the games would have been vanished.
Oh, they did? Good to know. They saved me OrcQuest, like them
@@daodasbrot4817did you like the results of orc quest?
@@tayhhuck What you mean? That I did not pay 120€ for nothing? That I get an AllIn for not paying for an AllIn in the beginning? That I got the game?
Or do you mean the game? The communication after delivery? Bug Fixes?
What is you question aiming at?
In other words, any preview prototype copies of Anastyr, MonPoc, and Hel are considered extremely rare collectors items lol
Yep! Happy I have them to some viewers :)
@@TheKingofAverage lol hell yeah man, it’s like having first gen holographic Pokémon cards. Hot commodity!
@@EarthenGames 👏 👏 hehehehe (retarded laughing) people got fucked for millions of bucks but at least some people got some exclusive prototypes heheheeh
$631.25 for anastyr, dont mind the cost of the crowdfunding, such is the risk, I do mind shipping and tax at 231.25, that should be illegal.
It is.
@@TRENCHESandTREADS so where is our money?
where is their pasrt, not only mythic games, but for other companies that get our tax and shipping
@@tgeorgom Not sure why you're asking me, I'm not the one who scammed everyone lol. @Ghost_council said "...that should be illegal."
And my response to that was "It is.", because what Mythic did with the shipping charges is a form of mail fraud. Why could argue the Kickstarter stuff is covered by Kickstarter's boilerplate, but the shipping contributions? That's 100% a criminal act.
If you paid tax to a company you can claim a tax refund with a receipt from the nation you paid it, nation depending of course. Good luck of course but depending on where you are it certainly can be a thing.
They had 20-30 employees on the payroll (with generous French social benefits) and renting office space in one of the most expensive cities in the world. That alone is probably $3 million per year in expenditures.
Combine that with delays in their games, poor quality control where they had to ship replacements to tons of backers, increased manufacturing and logistics costs, and general mismanagement and that's likely where the millions went.
As soon as Sam Healy left and people were laid off the writing was on the wall. They should have failed at that moment versus lying about the situation, asking people for contributions, and causing more pain.
The horrible handling of Time of Legends Joan of Arc was my first red flag on them. Super Fantasy Brawl was the last game I backed from Mythic Games so I didn't lose any money.
afaik it was between 50 and 60 at peak and their mass layoff ate up a sizable portion of ''their'' (backers) savings.
@@denisloebner4882 That's even worse than I remembered... 🤦🏻♂️😵💫
They were living WAY above what they could afford. They had no idea on how to manage a business and that's it.
@@Dandyphonic thats pretty much it. + inflated ego so they couldnt properly communicate nor seek for help or solutions +extreme overstaffing on hel which probably ate up ~10mil in production costs.
Game companies should never be renting office space in expensive locations. Better to be outside the city and past the suburbs where it's usually a lot cheaper to find a place to setup, especially given that if it's not a retail location, being out there isn't that much of a hindrance.
I backed Monsterpocalypse with the hope to play with my son. I assumed the miniatures just required tooling for plastic molds, but everything else was already done for nearly a decade as privateer press had done the actual sculpts and rules. 12 months seemed fast, but I assumed it was just scale production.
I was very disappointed that even if the game was to arrive my son is too old to play now. I assumed I lost about 500 dollars, but the time I was hoping to spend with my son playing Monsterpocalypse matters more than the money.
Reality is staff costs about 60-70k a year (with benefits) per person. 20-30 employees will cost 2 million a year before production, etc.
But why did they need a staff of 20-30 people?
I have lost at least a 1000 € to this company. Most of it for Monsterpocalypse but I also backed Hel and miss some things for Joan of Arc. Crazy that a company can missmanage this much money without big legal consequences for the responsinble persons.
They're paying people. But as a backer, you're not even people. You *crowdfunded* them. You gave them an interest-free loan, with no strings or liability attached.
This isn't about a corporation/person. This is about Kickstarter and Gamefound offering your money to companies without any liability on the company's end with the potential of you getting something for being so "nice".
Welcome to crowdfunding.
590$ pledge
251$ ransom
4 years of waiting
I paid $69 for the base 6: siege, then $30 for the shipping then they asked me for $120 hostage fee, not as bad as yours but $120 for something I paid $99 in total yeah that was some guts
about $1189 lost on Monsterpocalypse, Anastyr, and Hel. Not sure how to count Darkest Dungeon. it was planned to cover about 3 years of Christmas presents for my son and myself and buying Viking Chess meant to be gifts for some friends. We personally met Leo at Gencon and got our picture with him. He acted so cool and nice. Never had any doubt we'd get an awesome product delivered from him. The betrayal from him personally is the worst thing. Leo was so loved and he used that against us. sorry but I hope the worst for him if he does nothing to redeem himself to us. I'd be satisfied with an honest apology video and the files from all the undelivered games
He was conning you and many others. 😢
Rumours said, they had one of the most expensive offices in paris around 10k€/month, they hired their painters and they had 2-3 of them, the rest is history
Fun fact, he now opened a finiancial advisor company XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD just epic
And let's not even ask how much they payed Sam Healy...
They had between 20 and 30 employees. With the cost of life in Paris, your are looking at a 2 Million operation just for that office per year.
@@1AngelAlita But he left again, also a sign at the time, that something wasn't quite right.
What makes me most angry about this situation, much more for Darkest Dungeon than for Hel, is that in this case the game exists, it has been partially produced and many are appreciating it. I instead was left with nothing just because I was hoping for a translated version that was never made. If I had bought the English version at least I would have had the base game, instead we who were waiting for the translated version were the ones who were really *******
Sucks man, sorry for you guys.
I was all in on Anastyr and had a copy of HeL ordered. What would be great is if CMON spat on Mythic's grave and announced one of those campaigns in the next few weeks lol. If CMON brings me those games, as much BS as they pull sometimes, I will be a CMON fan for a long long time in the future.
Same boat here. Hopefully CMON comes through for us.
SFB is about to drop. That's the first of the mythic properties they acquired
It will keep on happening because consequences for those responsible are too lenient. They should have to pay all those backers back, and if they can't, they need to go to jail, instead of just opening a new company.
Debtor's prison died a long time ago, and for good reason. Sometimes companies fail. It's not like anyone's life savings got lost here.
@@bosshobo6022 Leo explicitly took people's money for 'shipping' knowing full well that his company was never going to deliver and was heading into insolvency. That isn't a civil matter, that's literally a form of crime in pretty much every country, to say nothing of the fact that there's a good chance he was also committing a second form of fraud by using later Kickstarter to pay for earlier productions.
Leo 100% deserves jail time for this, it's irresponsible to let obvious fraudsters get away just because individually no one lost that much money. On the whole millions of dollars in fraud occurred.
@chrisstephens6022 the issue is that this was blatant fraud. They said multiple times what money was for, promising people would get product, wouldn't have to pay multiple times, etc. And we had every single issue they said we wouldn't. And they knew, yet they still took everyone's money. Fraud is illegal
@@bosshobo6022 Easy solution: it's not debtor's prison, but fraud. There's a difference in having to go to jail because you can't pay your bills, or because you just frauded thousands of people and can't pay them back.
@@TRENCHESandTREADS Not when the money given is considered a gift. Your looking at it as if backers are investors on a project, when their really just gifting their money to see if a project succeeds. People already tried Sueing Leo and others and it didn't work because of the fine print on Kickstarter. Basically its seen as if we knew the risk, that we should have seen this coming, and that we took a chance and lost a bet.
Wow it was bound to happen. Sorry to all those still invested really terrible.
I got out at $400 spent before they asked for more money a second time. I refused to pay the second shipping fee as I had a feeling nothing was ever going to ship. The money went into the CEO's bank. Pretty simple.
i can bet that didn't happen. Dude is not living it up. plus with the liquidation he has to show he's broke, it was just horribly mis managed, to many full time staff. Paying the production companies more then what they had kickstarted. It probably all started with joan of arc. The legal fees from the lawsuit. the having to reship everything. Once that started every campaign after that was literally paying for the campaign before it. Plus they delivered some games right at the start of covid and paid the outrageous shipping stuff and didn't say anything then.
My number is 0 because ive never backed anything mythic. I listened and didnt get any of the games. Whispers were enough for me not to trust i would get everything.
Lucky!
My number is 0 too. I did pledge Darkest Dungeon, but I took only base game, which did delivered. I decided to buy add-ons later if I like the game, but thankfully I did not decided to invest.
I backed Reichbusters, Solomon Kane, and Darkest Dungeon wave 1. If it wasn't for also backing Hel, I would have made it through the Mythic Gauntlet unscathed!
Same, I always had doubts about their KS and i'm so damn happy that I was right with my feeling.
Yeah I backed DD, Anastyr, and Monsterpocalypse, so I lost $1200.
Based on my experience at some failed tech start-ups, the answer to where the money went is usually employee salaries.
When a project is under estimated, you still have to pay your employees, and as time stretches on the cost of that really builds up.
I think a lot of this really started with Solomon Kane, three or four years late and a project was full of mistakes, right busters with similar. Experience with Solomon was so bad. I stopped her stuff and bought a few things on sale. After it was produced.
Down 1097 dollars....I'm really kicking myself for not doing my research before I backed. I heard of Monpoc through one of my friends, but didn't like the price point, so having a fully realized game for a quarter of the price compared to ordering each set separately seemed like such a good idea at the time....but hindsight is 2020. And of course I went all in on Anastyr as well not realizing they were both the same company....
For someone who lives off of a single income, that's such a lot of money....I wish I had my 3D printer around that time so I didn't have such a want to back miniatures-based games...but it is what it is. So sad this happened, and I'm so sorry to the rest of you that have to deal with this....
I'm down 360 dollars on Anastyr and looks like I'm screwed over by Lazy Squire Games with Wild Assent. I'll lose 400 dollars with that. 760 bucks total. Really sucks.
I'm in a similar boat. I didnt back Anastyr since I backed 3 or 4 others that hadn't delivered. It made me change things for other campaigns and having a self-imposed back only 1 game until its delivered rule. Sucks man...
Sounds like a class action lawsuit against kickstarter for allowing multiple champaigns happen from the same bad companies.
My mistake was confusing Monolith for Mythic. 😢😢. Went all in on Anastyr. And they instantly charged shipping, which was clearly a scam. How are these guys not in jail right now. Millions of dollars stolen.
@@timf7354 I've slowed down from crowd funding because of this debacle and also due to games just costing too much. The last game I backed was Nemisis Retaliation in December 2023
Somehow lost nothing in all this. 200+ crowdfunders backed, including absolutely these sort of games (plenty of stuff from Awaken Realms, Into The Unknown, KDM) and yet somehow never backed a Mythic game in all that time. I'd like to say I'm a genius that saw it coming before their company even started but reality is it was just dumb luck!
If only we could have seen this coming for YEARS...
Having multiple crowfundings on same time, not delivering earlier ones were enough red flags for me. 0€ spent to Mythic
Unfortunately, there are people like me who are not in the know of what's going on when they see it on crowdfunding. I went all-in on 6-Siege and, much later than I could've done a chargeback, heard about their shady history.
I think the only question they need to answer is have they passed all the backers details for HEL and Anastyr to CMON as that was the deal they made with CMON, sell them those games and backers get a free copy.
Luckily I was only hit with 6 siege ransom. So not a lot lost...
Thier worst mistake was wasteful money management. No project was kept in budget
I wished for more research. Mythic Games Luxembourg is the parent company. All the relevant contacts were with that company. We don't know what the purpose of the French company was. Maybe, payment of French employees and they simply don't want to give them their outstanding payment. Nobody knows. Maybe, Mythic Games is completely gone, maybe those cronies are still active with Mythic Games Luxembourg. This video was a bit premature. Even on your discord, this has been discussed.
Agreed, research and fact checking are important in any form of journalism
@@jbgaillet806he’s not a journalist tho
@@dawafflesupreme Absolutely, he's a sensationalist. Anyway, facts are facts (when verified by several sources)
Got Lucky, The Everrain was in trouble. Stopped all kick starters except CMON. I am out, too much headaches. Still waiting for Dawn of Madness, Return to Apocalypse and Ancient Blood!
So doing some arm chair math and knowing nothing about the business I think this started with Joan. Funded in 2019 and "delivered" around early 22. I think they used the darkest dungeon money to pay for the increase in shipping prices and all the "replacements parts" etc etc. If you look at the timeline starting in feb of 20 till Oct 20 they had 4 kickstarters. If you take the darkest dungeon money it was probably used to finish up and ship Joan,enchanters,steam, and brawl. That left them probably less than halfish. With covid delays/shipping and other bills piling up Hel,monster, anast and the "double shipping payments" were used for the first wave of darkest and siege as well as trying to keep face and the lights on. Still a lot of money unaccounted for but I mean they probably did pay for test molds,prints etc etc for the other games they didn't deliver and of course paying themselves. No excuses for lying and robbing "John" to pay "Paul". Screw Mythic.
I said this before, but they have ruined crowdfunding for me. Story of Many looks like a game I would love, but I can't back it after what happened with Mythic. I'll likely only back CMON, and buy retail for other games now.
Same
I agree... This soured me so much, that I just watch crowdfunding now and won't support though. Companies like Mythic, BLG, Lazysquire, Limbo Miniatures and Peterson Games... I'm done with it... Hundreds of dollars that could have gone to a better place. Lesson learned, no more crowdfunding. Now I just watch KOA because I enjoy his content
It is always a risk, but all in all I think it is mostly dependent on how much research you do. I had one Kickstarter so far that hasn't delivered, and that wasn't even a board game but a book. Check if a company has not yet delivered campaigns, how many, what did they do when delivering, how was the general reception, what is their track record, and then you have a good picture that minimizes risk. I never backed anything from Mythic because they always seemed on the edge with too many campaigns and not enough delivery.
Also, they are French. The bad campaigns I was part of always came from French studios and publishers (they all delivered, but it's dicey and they don't seem to like their customers)
@SirBlackjack010 Could not agree more on the research part. I was very interested in Roborover 2077 by Giimoe. Then realized the main base component was previously kickstarted as a kids toy that went undelivered and was folded into the current game. Immediately changed my mind.
That said, they've got a lot of backers and I do hope they get a good product.
CMON appears to be having difficulties now too.
I suspect that Solomon Kane was the beginning of the end here. I'll bet MG paid a significant license fee for that property. I remember there being an air of disappointment from MG's responses during the campaign which caused me to drop my pledge. I think this shortfall started this "pay it backwards", Ponzi-ish thing that quickly started to drown them. If I had to further guess it would be that they also had contracts with artists that effectively locked them into salary or payment of some kind to said artists for X projects or X number of years. MG were trying to bill themselves as one of the top 5(ish) preeminent crowdfunding game companies but they got over their skis and started to reduce their communication to backers. That's gut-check time and that instinct to pull back is an indication that more honesty, transparency, and communication is required, not less. But that's not a native instinct to most people as they try to quietly fix the problem(s). No excuses on their part but if I'm right, all the clues of this cratering failure were there many years ago.
I keep looking at everyone’s totals and thinking… am I a giant idiot?
The answer?
Yes. Yes I am.
Needless to say I don’t back a fraction of what I used too. Monsterpocalypse makes me the angriest. At this point they were well beyond knowing it was a scam. Used a known and established IP and basically stated the design was all but done as well.
$1,500. (Somehow with all the change it came out to a very even number, which the math nerd in me found entertaining.)
Between Anastyr and Darkest Dungeon, I'm personally out around $1,200. Seriously considering trying to reverse the charge for wave 2, even though it's from so long ago. If Leo starts another company, I would make it a priority to do everything I realistically can to ensure it fails. There's nothing more to be gained from this situation except satisfaction.
The only project under mythic games that I pledged was Enchanters East Quest. Which I only joined since I was a previous backer to the last Enchanters campaign which belonged to Gindi a Polish game company. But sadly they sold Enchanters to Mythic Games which was the worst thing they could have done as we now see. But we did get Enchanters content and even another small expansion sometime after the main campaign but it was straight preorder from their website. One thing they did promise but did not complete was giving old backers a whole set of the cards we already had but in the new printing format since cards did change.
Ancestral Pledge for Darkest Dungeon. Paid both contributions. I had decided to switch from French to English to make sure that I get something, so I wave wave one.
It's like Ninja Division and the Relic Knights 2.0 campaign- I backed it for $200+ like 5 years ago and the only thing I have received so far was a Kingdom Death crossover figure that was fulfilled by that developer and not Ninja Division. The funniest part is some of the units I purchased separately from the new game components are existing figures to flesh out my warbands and they didn't even ship those
Lost around 700$ and worst part is that I really wanted the wave 2 content.
Between DD, Monsterpocalypse and Anastyr I think I lost around $1200. Though aren't we still getting a core box of Anastyr from Cmon at some point, so if that's true then a little bit less. Personally more mad at myself for getting these games, despite seeing the Red Flags with Joan of Arc and Hel. At that point I was more like "this looks cool" I will just back it, instead of looking for problems that a company might have. Now I wait for second printings of a game, or if I know the company delivers before I back. Like if I was thinking the same way back then that I do now, I probably still would have gotten DD, but would have not backed Monsterpocalypse or Anastyr.
The quality control issues were hugely indicative of how they ran the company. It’s what happens with nepotism and hiring people for their immutable characteristics over competency and then not holding them accountable for work product.
Combine this with the fast money of crowdfunding for people without having proven themselves in business and it’s a recipe for exactly what happened here.
There was simply no excuses for that many errors even in the errata for Joan of Arc. People got hired and people didn’t work.
@kingofaverage, I mainly learned to research companies and have to say since I went all-in on Anastyr + VAT & shipping ($660) I now try to back vader pledges only and pay as late as possible to see if there's any red flags coming up. Sad to never see that game as it looked so cool. Still waiting for CMON semi free version, no update on that since the announcement on January this year. Do you have any info on that?
Mythic was bad at accounting, project management, and forecasting. Basic business principals. They mixed all the money together and didn't have separate accounts for their projects, so they could not tell how much each project was in the red. And like another commentator stated, their payroll was huge and their overhead was out of control.
So glad I didn't fall for the Darkest Dungeon funding plea. After I recevied my original core box, I was astounded when I received the email/plead asking for additional funds to pay for the rest I didn't receive. At that point I was already so frustrated with the delays and mixed messaging from them I decided to throw in the towel early. Bummed out, but happy I am only out a couple hundred where I see others are out so much more. I've only been burned by 2 other KS's. So 3 out of about 75 or so? I'm okay.
Number is not delivering project to backers
Two is making backers pay and pay again for shipping (that wont be used to deliver games
Three not delivering to online buyers
I lost aBerserk pledge for Hel the Last Saga plus Viking chess, playmats and trays. All total with shipping $289.00. Though I did win a Joan of Arc all in from you so I am kinda ahead on the Mythic curve. What really sucks is they made great games and to me that is the biggest lose.
I’m out $130.00 on Anastyr. Received 6 Siege all in (luckily). Not sure if I’ll get the CMON copy if and when they do that campaign but I pledged the bare minimum (sensing an issue). I really kind of lucked out. DD I bought at my FLGS and was looking forward to buying extra copies of wave 2.
Nah man, it's simple to see funds were not spent correctly. Whether malicious or not, still complete incompetence. The Jerk store from Sans Detour (also French...) Blew all the money from that campaign. Discovery in court showed he was living the high life. This has happened enough, I am not backing anywhere near as much. Too many creators live off hopes and dreams.
I’m glad I never got caught up backing the most recent Mythic Games games.
I can’t say the same for Lazy Squire Games. I’m hopeful they deliver on Wild Assent even if it takes 5 years. I look forward to your video on them!
I am not sure if I will get Stormsunder in my lifetime? I am 62 now!
Lost 590$ on Darkest Dungeon and 606$ on Anastyr so around 1200$ for me... Still waiting for Dawn of Madness (2019) and ISS vanguard (2021). I was slowing down on crowdfunding the last two years, but I'm just gonna stop completely, it doesn't woth it.
where are you residing? In Europe, I can tell you that I have received Dawn of Madness a few months ago and ISS Vanguard has been around in backers homes for quite sometime already. That is quite a shame that you are still waiting. I am sorry
@@shouzo Yes I'm from France, I backed translated versions maybe that's the difference, did you get yours in english ?
@@Nosferatu8 yes, I always purchase in English.
@@shouzo I understand, I would like to do the same, but have a few friends that are sadly not comfortable enough in english 😅
It turns out the Mythic isn't officially dead, ...at least not yet.
The filing was to liquidate a subdivision and not the whole company.
It isn't a good sign, but remember the words of the Black Knight...
Myhtic Games Luxembourg's head office is still up and running!!!!
Mythic Games is not dead.... not yet
I think this is just first steps in the process
@@TheKingofAverage maybe you r right... 🤔
You hit the true issue at around the 19 minute mark. How the hell does KS allow the same people to scam people out of money over and over again? KS needs to be held legally liable for these failures.
Gladly I have my Solomon Kane All-In. Despite Mythic, it is an awesome game
I paid the ransom and got Siege. Can’t believe it actually made it.
This isn't their main office.. That's Luxemburg this is just a sub company they own..
Liquidating what then exactly?
@@TheKingofAverage Anything in that office. The UK branch is still active according to company house. Of course I can't tell you if that or Luxemburg is just a matter of time.. I mean we assume it is but as of now the company still exists on paper.
@@TheKingofAverage Hey Michael, the french studio, which was hiring people and designing/developing games, is gone (it was an empty shell for years). The main legal entity (owning the remaining assets), located in Luxemburg, is still there.
@@crimsonsun2000 UK office was shut down some time ago,
MG Luxembourg's head office is still up and running!!!!
Mythic Games is not dead.... not yet
I backed Solomon Kane way back when it was first announced but after years of delay and further delays to "improve quality" I knew I needed to get my money back. From what I know, it's an amazing game but I did not agree with their decision making to significantly delay the game. The only game of theirs I have is Steamwatchers which is quite fun if not that special of an area control game (Kemet, FS, and War of the Ring are way better). Anyways, I did read Leo's BGG post clarifying himself and his company and you guys might not like this, but I do feel bad for him. Yeah, he and his associates messed up but they're still only human. The way I see it is if I lose money investing into a stock, that's just bad luck and poor decision making on my end and I need to learn for next time.
Do we know who is liquidating them? Surely it can't be Leo and should be a professional insolvency agent?
As creditors, will we get a statement of their financial position, and will we find out the status of their assets? For instance, Wave 2 DD was ready for print. Can that be sold to someone who could then print and deliver it to people willing to pay?
I am out over £400 in my investments with them.
No official word yet. This "officially dead" is just a liquidation of French branch, but their HQ is in Luxembourg.
So I got all the packages for Joan of Arc, and after I only pledged the $1 late pledges, which I never pursued (had a nagging feeling that things did seem correct) - so only about $5. Buy did I dodge a bullet.
Had to do some digging for this
So I backed Darkest Dungeon with the Ancestral Pledge and Bundle, this was 590$ originally
The "additional Shipping cost" that were asked for right before Wave 1 were an additional 69$ and an additional 251$ for wave 2 on the mythic website itself. I made the mistake to want another laguage, so I got exactly nothing as of today for paying a total of 910$
Wouldn't have minded to get at least the english version of the game
What happened to any Stock that Mythic had. Will we see it sold and appear on places like webstores, ebay, etc.? by whomever bought it.
I had just entered the amazing world of Kickstarter and was on the “I need to build a collection” phase. Everything from Mythic looked like it was the greatest game experience created!
Late backed all in on Hel, all in on Rise of Necromancers and all in on Monsterpocalypse… too scared/angry to total it up but man I wish I had known as a Kickstarter newbie to research campaigns/companies before I backed.
it was an important lesson. Make sure you help otger kickstarter noobs so they escape your fate. I went all in for Darkest Dungeon years ago.
Companies shouldn't be like Companies. Here's what I mean. I work for a company and my managers get paid more than I do, fair enough I suppose. Though I don't really know what work they actually do. They also get bonuses... now their managers get paid even more and even more bonuses, again for what work I don't know. You go up to the board of directors where there are some 'non executive directors ' who basically don't do anything yet take home six figures, and I'm not talking minis lol. My point is me and my colleagues are the ones doing the work thay brings the company money. So why do the richer managers and up need to be paid so much more? My company didn't have a CEO for six months and the company was fine. If everyone at the bottom were to disappear the company would be done!
Not sure what industry you're in, but will give you some insights from a small law firm perspective. I currently hire 5 lawyers and 1 secretary. I work on average 10 hours per day, usually 6 days per week, sometimes 7. That's about 60-70 hours per week. 40% of that I spend on doing legal works (e.g., drafting documents, meeting and advising clients, contacting third parties on clients' behalf, double checking and correcting my team's errors, and doing complicated legal works that my team can't do); 30% pitching for new works, writing proposals, negotiating fees, and marketing; and 30% taking care of admin works (e.g., managing clients' expectation and relationships, managing and training my team, processing invoices, chasing overdue fees, doing HR stuff, etc.). On the other hand, my staff usually work regular office hours, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, totaling 40 hours. Sometimes they actually work less than 40 hours per week because I don't have enough work for them to do, so they sit idly in the office chatting or doing whatever they please. Of course, sometimes they work more because we have some urgent works, but that is an exemption, not a norm. I also have to pay them extra for overtime work. They get paid a fixed sum on a fixed day of the month, no matter when the clients pay their bills. I also have to pay for the office rents, utilities, all other costs of running the business, again, no matter when the clients pay their bills. So, in summary, I spend more time working; taking more legal, financial and reputational risks; and bearing more stress than any of my staff. But that's also why I make more money than any of them do. I think it is a fair trade off.
@wayus6309 you sound like a company doing things right. Where I work the management have three hour breaks every day and most of their work is standing around watching everyone to see if there's something they can tell us off for. The management above them have even less to do. The board of directors do less than a day's work, while taking home six figures... all the while things at the bottom get worse with more workload and less time to do it.
@@williamfaulkner7181 I guess the bigger the business is, the more convoluted the management roles become.
Solomon Kane's price was undervalued compared to the quality and size of the game. There are no such deals anymore.
Nothing on crowdfunding is a deal anymore. Somehow our community got tricked into thinking spending several hundred dollars on a board game was normal.
As backer of basic pledge for Joan of Arc, I do enjoy the quality-and-gameplay/dollar ratio
It's unlikely, but if it's sitting at a distribution warehouse, awaiting fulfillment but the fulfillment company wasn't paid enough, a large scale group negotiation could be levied. Hundreds of us banded together and managed to get our Rallyman GT/Rallyman Dirt stuff after Holy Grail Games went under but my word did we overpay for shipping. If it wasn't one of my favourite games, I probably would have walked.
Not officially over yet, as Mythic's headquarter is in Luxembourgh. But DD Contributions page disappeared from their website, so it doesn't look good.
Hmm so just first steps then I assume
Also 6:Siege is not there anymore...
This makes me so sad. I can live without ever getting darkest dungeon, but the damage they have done to the board game crowdfunding space is tragic.
Edit: In case you were wondering I spent 600 dollars only to receive wave 1. 😅
I was also all in on Hel, at least CMON promised me a game for that haha.
What upsets me is DD is such a GOOD game - really enjoyable. I was really looking forward to wave 2. If it had been a terrible game I wouldn't have been as bothered...
@@jamesrobinson4028yeah isn’t that the kicker? I don’t think people would care nearly as much nor would so many have been suckered in if Mythic Games didn’t make legit board games.
I lost over $1,000 on Monsterpocalypse all in. It’s been enough not just to stop me ever crowdfunding again but to get me out of the hobby completely. Thanks Mythic.
I think the whole 'big board game with tons of minis' market has really started to slow down. Too many delays and too many failed projects were making more and more people hesitant to take the chance. Plus, if you've been at this a while, the amount of space to store it all gets overwhelming. Unless you sell them off after playing through them.
@@JMcMillenI hear you. I have a full sized Kallax unit that has been filled by so much plastic bulk. For some games it’s worth it, but definitely not every game!
Lost around 100€ Ransom on 6Siege (but received the Base Game). And the Hel All-In Pledge.
Any News regarding Okko and Red Joker?
I’ve got some hope that monolith buys Darkest Dungeon plates and files and does a Darkest Dungeon Rebirth Campaign (looking at Orc Quest Resurrected).
Sorry. That was way too risky.
@@frederichenry7319what's to risky?
@@sethpeterson8261 to buy DD. Already to many pledgers undelivered.
Have you talked to a lawyer about this? My understanding is that this was their French legal entity to handle payroll for now long fired employees in France. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Mythic will deliver but this legal notice isn’t what you’re saying it is. The parent company still technically exists and the notice shows the principal is still managing the company.
I have an ability to read people's face and expressions and sort of make very eerily accurate determinations of their behaviors and red flags. That said, from the first time I saw Leo, he reeked of red flags (not worth name calling and being specific on the negative traits I saw) for me so despite really liking many of their projects, i never baked any because i didnt trust him. So I lost $0 thankfully. It really is unfortunate for those who did.
Lost around 640 €.
Well, nomen est omen - the games were a myth... at least towards the end... I still remember how people ranted over monolith taking charge of the mythic battle franchise.. saying MG would the more professional of the two... history taught you otherwise.
Lol yeah exactly opposite it seems
i paid the ransom for 6:Siege, and I'm glad I did coz that it is the best tactical skirmish game ever made. Shit company but their games were awesome (I have and rate highly SFB as well). I had heard of their previous issues with Joan and Solomon but the SFB experience was smooth so I thought 6:S was a safe bet.
The HQ of Mythic Games are in Luxembourg and it has not been dissolved…
Hmmm, didn't they sell all but one of their offices? Also I think it'd be weird to announce liquidation of an office that has nothing. It chairs and such.
It's a step by step process. But they are over.
Cannot believe people are still trying to see a silver lining in this whole affair. Mythic games is toast.
Doesn't matter, they are in liquidation it is over. Got my six siege pledge with replacements for error tiles and I got really, really lucky.
@@stephenbrazier8996 Man, I really do not know what you are talking about. There is no silver lining in this, and nobody can say there is.
Who will mourn the passing of this company?
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience." - J Caesar
The biggest takeaway from this is that I am glad I listened to your advice/warnings King of Average in the past and have fortunately not fell foul of this situation, I do feel sorry for everyone who has been caught up in it though, I wish I was a millionaire and able to help them but alas I am not in that respect, I am glad though that the community as a whole will come together to support each other :D
21:56 In regards to this. This exact thing happened with Grim Dynasty. Some came in and bought the IP and is trying to find a way to bring the game back to life and gets nothing but hate from backers calling them opportunists out for a buck and inhuman for causing the distress to the backers even though they had nothing to do with the original campaign
I full backed darkest dungeon and paid for shipping so you tell me how much I spent because IDK/remember
I got wave 1 and while it sucks I'm not getting 2, if a compony buys it, say 'here's the stock. now pay us again' I will. Or even just buy it.
Ultimately, kickstarter is a gamble and we lost. deal with it.
I went into board game world just recently. I felt it so strange when I realised crowdfunding was being used as a tool by companys.
I aways saw the crowdfunding as an alternative for lone designers to try to make their games a reality and have an entry to the market. Making profit from it only after the project is concluded. But it seems things are happening far away from this. 🤔
I only did a core pledge for Solomon Kane, which I received. I would have done "Time of Legends: Joan of Arc ", but missed the original campaign and by the time the 1.5 version came around, I had already (mostly) stopped backing big expensive board games with tons of minis. Darkest Dungeons was a bit tempting, but not enough to get me to dive in.
I spent $660+ Probably won't back another Kickstarter.
659 USD für Darkest Dungeon + two contributions + 862,75 USD for Anastyr...
Same here + Hel as well...but still dream of Darkest Dungeon Wave 2...
Please keep track of the people who are responsible for this desaster. They have forfeited their right to work in this industry ever again.
Lucky for me that I never joined the trainwreck. I truly feel sorry for those who lost hundreds, and maybe even thousands , with Mythic.
I got my 6 siege all in pledge eventually feel sorry for the 1000s of others that have been ripped off
I lost around $300. That was money I lost a long time ago, I’m over it. What bothers me more is not getting the rest of what is a great game, especially the rest of the characters.
8. Willfully misleading potential backers of newly initiated campaigns about the status quo of company and the actual risk evaluation but instead of either being intransparent or straight lying to people to gain the nondeserving trust an money - iliciting money from people by putting out no or false information, i.e. conning or scamming people. And by the same reasoning I would like to see KS and GF held responsible for their part in the scam by taking the money and no action.
I dropped about 400 on Hel. I don't expect to see anything from it.
Part of me is excited for the prospects of Darkest Dungeon. If say, Monolith picked it up, they have a good track record with recycling ip from failed companies.
If they pull an Orcquest with Darkest dungeon and we can swoop in on the cheap, I might bite. (Granted, the only Mythic game I ever backed was Hel.)
I also bought Solomon Kane second hand, which is looking very much worth the purchase now.
It was unfortunate for me that I funded Darkest dungeon. I was fortunate that I backed wave 1. The base game and the crimson court expansion. I paid the ransom, and got the product. I never opened it. It's just a reminder of the stress, and the feeling of being cheated, lied to, and the choice of giving them all that money for nothing, or give them more of my money and get what I paid for. I chose the later, and they can't help but kick me in the nuts when I was charged a brokerage fee of 120 Canadian dollars. I don't see myself backing anymore kickstarters.
Just 1 Hel all-in pledge, luckily.
I asked MG for a refund over a year ago which I'm definitely not going to get. So I'm not sure how to act right now because I believe CMON might not have gotten my details now. Anyone have any tips?
Loot n shoot kickstarter was another scam.
And now on to a New "Mystic Games" company to fleece the next bunch of trusting gamers.
Lost 180 for Wave 2 plus the 2 ransoms..... $70 est?
Let's just say $250 as an educated guess.
At least I got Wave 1. Not a total loss, but ends up being a very expensive game.
I wrote this one off long ago. This isn't a surprise.
Take a look at high noon on backerkit looks a great game from a new small company needs the backers
Should almost be a legal ground to get released the files as is. So sad having so little rights compared to normal buying rights in EU, but if the purchase was done by a credit card its worth looking upon if it is itself has any rights.
659 USD für Darkest Dungeon + 874 USD for Anastyr, + 449 USD Monsterpocalypse +301 USD for Hel: The Last Saga!
So.. yeah.. quite some 💸💸💸 down the drain!
man I was so lucky with Mythic games. I was border line going to back Darkest Dungeon and 6 siege. I actually had Darkest Dungeon pledged, but cancelled it before the campaign ended. Figured i would maybe grab it later or in a reprint if it is good.. glad I did..
Lost over $1K on Hel, Anastyr, and Darkest Dungeon Wave 2. When contractors work on commercial projects, they need to purchase a bond that quarantines the project is completed. Maybe it's time that crowdfunding puts in similar requirements so we don't keep loosing money. Also there should be a time limit on how long it takes a creator to deliver a crowd funded project. I am still waiting for 4 games to finish delivering from 2019 and 3 from 2020. That is way too long.
And they kept asking more money, I paid multiple times to receive last expansion already doubting I would get anything... what a scam. Honestly, I stopped pledging anything and no longer even watch Kickstart videos... sorry.
I’m also curious where all those money went. Millions of dollars gone. And now, they’re putting up another company, which Leonidas said he borrowed money to put it up.
I am currently down $500, went in on the rise of the necromancers game. Darkest dungeon for the miniatures, and only got wave 1. I had been emailing them asking for updates, and they kept on responding in the emails to simply check the most recent posts on the backer pages where there was zero updates.
They were scammers. They knew what they were doing. They charged VAT without the intention to pay to the authorities, and they charged expensive shipping without anything to send. With emails like "we are looking forward to send the game you baked...". ALL WERE LIES. No legal repercussions, no money back, gamefound nothing to say, kickstarter looking other way... In my case, "only" 255€ lost. This was the first and the last time I bake something. Never again, and I have about 100 games.
i'm still waiting for my darkest dungeon exansions...
Companies need to see the writing on the wall WAY earlier than this.