I Was a Trinitarian for 35 Years (Interview with Troy Salinger)
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- I invited Troy Salinger (LetTheTruthComeOutBlog.wordpress.com) on the channel to share his upbringing, background, and journey from Trinitarianism to Unitarianism. He talks about some of the key texts that led him to change his understanding. It was a pleasant, educational conversation.
Excellent exegesis of Colossians 1.
I had come the same conclusion in my own studies:
That "for in Him all things were created" is referring to the authority structure that Paul encompasses with his use of "all things".
Great interview. My own faith journey is very similar to Troy’s. E.g., it was understanding biblically what the title “Son of God” applied to Jesus means (Israel’s king as representative of Israel).
A few great points Troy mentions:
The New Testament writers never have to qualify (like mainstream “Christians” do) their statements that Jesus is a man, with some kind of “yeah, but he is God, too”.
In the New Testament, redemption always comes through the man Christ Jesus.
Great observations on 2 Tim. 2:8 - what Paul would have us remember about Jesus Christ as opposed to what mainstream “Christians” insist on.
I laughed out loud when Troy said, “I know a lot more about the Trinity now than when I was a Trinitarian”.
Indeed, in Col. 1:16 Paul describes the new authority structures, a new creation, that God brings about through the man Christ Jesus. The parallel is Eph. 1:19-23.
Thanks guys!
Thanks for sharing this conversation brother Matthew! Shalom to both you and Troy!
I see Troy is displaying his love for the globe…would have been an interesting conversation if they had a conversation about biblical cosmology..Got Torah Got Truth
@@harryabrahams2770
Yeah I saw that too, I feel he will get there soon enough! Amen!
It's a long way Home...quite a journey. Follow The Good Shepherd...bestest route.
Much love to you and your family...and a shout out to 🌹😊
Yes You Yah...Father Creator sent His Devine Son...our Savior and Only Hope. 😊
That was a really helpful conversation!
I’m so glad it was sister, that encourages me. Have a blessed Shabbat!
@@emjmnc seeing as Troy is displaying his take on biblical cosmology…you can have him on again and discuss biblical cosmology..Got Torah Got Truth
Will forsake making judgment however, 1st commandment says "Thou shalt not have any gods before me" (Yahovah), very precarious situation for trinitarians but as was explained by Troy, the blinders are on for most christians.
The Shema uses the word ELOHIM, which is Gods, Echad is not the Hebrew word for the number one…The ELOHIM of Israel are unified..NOT that there is one God..Got Torah Got Truth
A red ribbon of Life runs throughout Scripture...The True Vine...Messiah.
Sent by Father Creator to redeem His own. HalleluYAH FOREVER 🙌👐🤲🙌👐💗...Our High Priest and soon returning King of Kings.
One thing I’ve noticed when trying to show people that the doctrine is false without actually saying it, they use the doctrine to then say that Yeshua changed his law from the “Old Testament” law. After we have just gotten thru the discussion that they believe it was “Moses” law and not Yahwehs’ law. It is circular theology and after a while you become dizzy lol.
The heavens/earth did pass away so portions of the Torah are not worldwide applicable
@@droptozro can you show me scripture that says that?
@@notbreadalone6696 sounds like some hyper preterism. not familiar with this idea
God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Really couldn't be clearer.
John 1:49 is such a profound declaration that is often overlooked!
Shalom. Good discussion!Though it had always been taught to me, I never absorbed "trinity" Blessings and blessed Sabbath 🙏🕊
Philippians 2:6" Who being in very nature Elyahim did not consider EQUALITY with Elyahim something to be grasped, but made himself nothing taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness.
Colossians 1:15" He is the image of the invisible Elyahim 16 " For by Him all things were CREATED: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible ".
Hebrews 1:5" For to which of the angels did YHVH ever say " You are my Son TODAY I have become your Father. 6 " Let all YHVH 's angels worship Him. Yesterday He was co- equal.
Bereshit/ Genesis " Let US make/ create man in OUR image.
YHVH the Father, YHVShAy the Son. Ruach is the breath that eminates from the Father and the Son. " Elyahim is Ruach/Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in Ruach and Truth "
HalleluYAHUH, HalleluYAHUsha
" I have proclaimed your name-YHVH to them, the name you gave me " YHVShAy/ Yahusha/ Yawasha 💜💙
John : 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jesus Is Equal with God
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath,
but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The Authority of the Son
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do:
for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Philippians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Colossians 1:15-20 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and
that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross,
by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
The Rider on a White Horse Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written,
that no man knew, but he himself. Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Ephesians 3: 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Hebrews : 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
23:30 I think a lot of the confusion is because people think we have an immortal soul that lives on separate from our body. When people have this false belief, they have no problem with Jesus existing before he was born.
Yes, a Greek teaching. Lev 17:11 The soul of the flesh is in the blood.
Colossians 1:15-17 (Literal from the Hebrew)
15 and he image of God which His face you will not see and the firstborn of all that was created
16 because they were created all that is in the heavens and which is in the earth revealedness and concealment with chairs and governments or any job and authorities everyone in him and for him they were created (and for his sake were created)
17 And he is the ancestor/antecedent of everything and according to it/him they stand all of them
So an Israeli reading the Hebrew won't find Jesus as a Creator but rather we can all find him as the 'reason' for both the first and second creations. WOW!
If Jesus is called a man then he must be a man.
So you were right for 35 years
I love brother Matthew but he still rejects the Jewishness of his calling. No kipa (we are priests) no sidekicks, a Torah Commandment, No tallit with tzitzit, Torah Commandment.....
Moses said.. the God of Abraham…the God of Isaac…the God of Jacob…there you have it…the 3 Gods of Israel…the FATHER..the SON..and the HOLY SPIRIT…Got Torah Got Truth
That’s cute
3 different gods? that's not really a trinity
Do you guys believe that Joseph was YESHUA father
I believe Yosef was Yeshua’s legal father in the same way an adopted son today carries all the rights of and from his adopted dad. I do not believe Yosef was Yeshua’s biological father. I do however believe Yeshua’s mother Miriam was from the lineage of David, so Yeshua was biologically connected to King David as well.
I hold to the virgin conception of Yeshua but I don't think this rules out that God could have obtained something from Joseph to impregnate Mary, much like God took something from Adam to make Eve.
@@troysal interesting
"Trinity" does not appear in the Bible; Hebrews 1-2 proves that angels are spirits; they are distinct from humans and God. God is not a dove; why does the Holy Spirit descend as a dove? Because the Holy Spirit is a spirit from God that carries his essence, but itself is not God. We take dominion over every spirit. If spirits are not God, then humans and God are fundamentally distinct because we have Nephesh. Nephesh means both life and soul. This means that we that have both Nephesh and a body in the image of God are the same kind of thing as God as His children (from Adam, whom Luke 3 says was the Son of God). So Nephesh is the "Spirit" component of God; that is why there was no death when there was no sin. This explains passages like 1 Corinthians 15:45 that states, "So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." So while Christ has a physical body, he also has a spiritual body; his spirit is alive even though his body was dead. Even Adam and Eve had the same spirit in the beginning, yet when they sinned, they spiritually died and became "living souls" that contained the spirit of life, but not the full nephesh with Spiritual Authority as they were then made subject to the spirit of death that comes from the Accuser and sin itself. The contrast being made is between a soul that can only receive life and a spirit that can give life. Adam had life breathed in and would have had the power and authority, but by sinning against God and his own divine nature, he lost his authority. By Christ proving that while being sinless, the devil would still kill him, and taking on all of our sins with him, he proved he was more worthy than the Accuser who causes Creation to writhe and decay in death and disease, and thusly inherited this Authority originally intended for Adam. Since we are now made sinless by placing our faith in him, we too will gain the authority and power of Christ when the 7th trumpet gives us resurrection bodies like Christ.
NOm nephesh is only "soul'. Chayah is life. They ar not to be confused. There is also the Neshamah, our breath. NT psyche used to be "breath", not soul. Closer to Neshamah. NO spiritual body until after resurrection.
@@randya.mitchell1722 While I agree that we get spiritual bodies at the 7th Trumpet, Nephesh does mean life. It refers more to the "Lifeblood" than "Breath", it is translated as psyche in the Greek, and 1 Corinthians 15:45 makes it clear that while the "First Adam could only recieve life" by having breath breathed in by God and becoming a living soul, "The Last Adam gave life" by sacrificing himself. While Christ can give life with his resurrection body, Adam could only receive. This shows the life-cycle of humans becoming Elohim like Christ and YHWH.
The Torah does not teach Unitarianism…2 or 3 witnesses are required to establish a matter…so creation requires 3 Gods of equal status…sin is the transgression of the TORAH and YHVH can not sin…so when divorcing Israel because of adultery, more than one witness was required…Got Torah Got Truth
Nope. God doesn’t need anyone to witness creation. Jesus Christ is the ultimate revelation of the one and only God.
@@jlar1984 I see your a lover of Christ-mas…a celebration by the wicked ( lawless ones)
Reject the Torah is synonymous with rejecting the MESSIAH…Got Torah Got Truth
@@harryabrahams2770 none of us could live up to the Torah. The Torah points at us and tells us we’re guilty. Only in Jesus do we have rest. If we could live up to the Torah we wouldn’t need Jesus. God bless.
@@jlar1984 Galatians 2:17 what your proposing is…( making Yeshua a minister of SIN )
Your seeking to be justified in the MESSIAH, while continuing to sin ( transgressing the
Torah )…keep taking the broad road and it won’t end well…Got Torah Got Truth
@@harryabrahams2770 3 gods trinity is an unbiblical heresy.
Deuteronomy 18:1,2..the sacrifice made to YHVH was the inheritance of the whole tribe of Levi…YHVH
was their inheritance….in other words YHVH was the sacrifice to YHVH…so Yeshua the MESSIAH Is YHVH and the Father is YHVH…they are ONE in name and character…they are NOT ONE BEING…Got Torah Got Truth
Just about every NT Writer and Jesus himself wrote the Father was his god....... Does God need a God???
Your logic is appalling! How do get from that text that Yahweh was sacrificed to Yahweh? All the passage is actually saying is that the priests get to eat the sacrifices made to Yahweh since their have no land inheritance.
@@troysal if the sacrifices are the inheritance for the tribe of Levi and YHVH IS their inheritance…then YHVH will be sacrificed to YHVH…there would be no resurrection unless the very best is offered YHVH…the death of a mere man cannot conquer death..
This is why YHVH says HE is the CREATOR, REDEEMER, SAVIOUR and KING of Israel..
EVERY knee shall bow, EVERY tongue confess, that Yehoshua is LORD..Got Torah Got Truth
@@Jeff-xt7xs He lowered HIMSELF for a while and entered HIS creation as a man so we could identify with HIM as HE taught mankind to HONOUR our HEAVENLY FATHER….
HE identified as the SON of YHVH for our benefit….There are 3 separate, but are ONE in
NAME and CHARACTER, completely coequal and eternal…Got Torah Got Truth
@@troysal to the ignorant, logic is always appalling…Got Torah Got Truth
Wow. If you deny the trinity then your not saved as its a essential doctrine to believe.
I encourage you to listen to the “Biblical Unitarian Podcast” from the beginning, and slowly work your way through it, on Apple Podcasts or YT.
@@emjmnc can't do it as I'm a Trinitarian just like Paul and the rest of the new testament saints were. Jesus baptism is good enough for me to believe the trinity. Please repent of your heresy so as to be saved...
Wrong. Nothing like that is required for salvation in the Bible.
Who told you that? The word is not even in the Bible. It doesn't appear until the 200's.
@@dwaynejohnson4662 You are deceived.