I give the example of the aircraft wing. It can be engineered in a manner that makes it a solid structure that doesn't move. It is intentional built to flex instead. I wonder how far one can take the process of stiffening a hull until it works against you?
+carbidegrd1 We are sure some of the high-tech racers could answer that. They use foam and honeycomb sandwich construction which is very stiff. Steel and aluminum boats don't flex. We don't know if small fiberglass yachts are built to flex or not but we think stiffer is better as flexing fiberglass will result in weakening stress cracks.
Wow, cant wait till its done! Think its going to look great and having a peace of mind of knowing whats done. Keep going guys. So when the next video up! ;-)
Have you considered gaskets? They can help distribute load, I was thinking of the join between the bulkheads and the hull, 10 fixing points, the force at each point might be spread over a bigger area at each point and also allow slightly more flexibility in changing climate conditions. Just thought. 3M do a wide variety of doublesided tapes, some have extremely high bonding strength, ask them for some information, they're usually very helpful.
+umvhu Interesting. We have heard a lot of possible solutions but not this one. At this point it is too late to change course but we will research and report what we learn.
great video again. Quick question: Your main bulkheads halves dont have an attachment netween them on the bottom. Wouldnt putting a piece of wood there, in between the 2 halves, help with strenghtening by preventing movement between the 2 halves thus preventing the bolts on each bulkhead to move and enlarge the holes in the hull?
One of the previous owners of my AV #2492 sandwich a 2" thick piece of white oak along side of the factory-installed cross beam making it now 4" thick. Nice huh? By the way what is your Vega's headroom? Mines 5'8" and I'm 5'11". This is my only complaint with mine. Well, maybe storage to some degree. Nice job you two are doing!
With an early production Vega, Im pretty much following the same formula with a bulkhead replacement glassed in place and a stronger beam as well. .The mast wiring route caused some water damage to the beam and some resulting compression. I suspect this is the likely culprit in most of these cases.
Still figuring out what to do about water following the wiring through the hole in the mast step. It has always been a problem. We made a silicon plug that the wires passed through. It helped a lot but did not stop the leak and when we took it apart we found a little rot at the top center of the beam. Wonder if there is something like the Blue Sea cable clam we used on the stern for the solar panel cable. They make one to accept a cable up to .56 in..... hmmmmmm
+subdrvr It might. But it is too late now for us to go that way. Constructing a glass/resin/plywood composite bulkhead will be tremendously strong though; probably stronger and lighter than just thicker plywood and certainly much, much stronger than the original construction.
The beam is bent downwards at least 3/4" on my Vega. Mine is #48 built in 1966, so the beam may have been built stronger on boats produced later. I am very curious about how you will construct your new beam, because I will have to make a new one too. All your refit vids are very instructive and interesting to watch, so I'm very pleased to be able to follow your progress on the refit. Will you also be insulating the boat? Thankyou and good luck! S/V Tiger Lily, Vega #48, Norway.
+Uffen We would love to see a photo of your bent beam and we are sure that our friends on the AVA site would as well. Any chance you could email us a copy? vega1860@americanvega.org
Sure, I'll take a photo or two next time I'm in the marina. Previous owner has put in a new main bulkhead and a new beam, but I sincerely doubt this is done properly and with strong enough dimensions. I'll take a closer look and take some measurements. The first Vega was built in 1965 as a mahogany hull and was the mother of all which came later. #2 was built in 1966, I believe as the first GRP version. You''ll find records of more than 400 Vega yachts on this site, including #1 and 2: www.albinvega.info/type.asp?iType=33 Regards S/V Tiger Lily, Vega #48.
We are familiar with the Vega database that Steve Birch of the VAGB put together. We are in there too! But we thought that the first production boats were built in '69. Learn something new every day d8^)
+Uffen In the video, he checked the temp on the outside of the roof. The aim is to insulate the INSIDE from the outside temperature. A better test would be to use two containers, both the same color, one with and one without the product, then measure and compare the temperatures inside the containers. The surface temp on the outside, given the same color paint on both, should be the same, as the video illustrates. The Insuladd was recommended by a local aluminum boat owner. Worst case - it doesn't work so we remove the ceiling and install conventional insulation.
+Sir Oglesby I agree. I've heard a lot of the channels mention people have short attention spans. I suspect youtube is trying to convince them to make more and shorter videos.
+Sir Oglesby There are a number of factors. One is that UA-cam restricts new users to 15 minutes but, of course that does not apply to us. Another is the file size limit and upload time. But the main thing in our case is simply how much material we have to share and how much time we have to put it together. Attention span does matter though. One of the metrics that affect add revenue is viewer retention. If viewers drop out after a few minutes instead of watching the whole thing, or most of it, advertisers are less likely to place ads on your channel. We don't aim for any particular length but we do try to make them interesting enough that we would watch the whole thing ourselves. But we do plan to publish something substantially longer in the future - 45 minutes to an hour. We'll see how that goes.
+Cruising Lealea hey yall. I didn't mean as an indictment. Rather that I just always want more. Lmao. Great progress!! Btw do yall have any knowledge of firearms and loving aboard?
+Sir Oglesby It all depends on where you love d;^) and where you intend to travel. Cruising in Alaska it is only prudent to have bear protection. Every boat we have been on up here has either a 12ga shotgun or a .45-70 rifle aboard. Hunters routinely travel by boat with their guns to get to island hunting areas in Southeast AK. Everywhere else the laws are complex and each state has it's own requirements. We would not even consider traveling internationally with firearms. It is just too much hassel. Even passing through Canada with guns on the way to or from Washington is a PITA and an added expense that we cannot justify.
Chuck, my ears perked up when you said you "just don't think the beam is the weak link in the system", but rather that the weakness was in "the way the bulkheads are attached to the hull." I think this footage of mine may vindicate your opinion! We just bought a 1979 Vega, #3360. Although I didn't know exactly what I was looking at at the time I shot this 30 second video, I knew it looked really beefy. Comparing it to what I see in your video, it looks like Albin had become aware of the weakness, and taken steps to eliminate it. The bolts appear to be larger, and have a thick bronze backing plate. I'd love to hear your thoughts: ua-cam.com/video/QesVL0y8iQM/v-deo.html .
I have never seen that setup before, but #3360 wold be a very late series 3 Vega and I have never seen one of those. Lealea, #1860, is a series 2 and has several improvements over series 1 boats like Williwa, #385. It could be a manufacturer's upgrade or an owner modification. Either way, it is a definite improvement.
Hi guys,Enjoy your refit pretty much as I went through almost (not as thorough though) the same with my Valiant 40 in 2008. For the connection of the bulkhead to the hull may I suggest drilling a few holes in the bulkhead between the bolts/screws as additional attachment points where you want to glass the bulkhead to the hull, that should give you a super stiff bulkhead with no chance for the bulkhead getting loose again. Glassing over the bulkhead is a good thing but the attachement point is still on the surface what you want is glass to glass as well. Hope I make sense to you would be easier with a piece of paper . . . You can have a look at the www.samlmorse.com Bristol Channel Cutter (build like tanks) for a complete instruction guide.Greetings from the cold BalticPatriceResourceful
Like the plan. Sounds like you have a good handle on what it will take to stiffen her up.
We're pretty easy on a boat, we don't put any strain on it...9:55 I'd like a sailing channel with that as their slogan. Fits my sailing style.
I give the example of the aircraft wing. It can be engineered in a manner that makes it a solid structure that doesn't move. It is intentional built to flex instead. I wonder how far one can take the process of stiffening a hull until it works against you?
+carbidegrd1 We are sure some of the high-tech racers could answer that. They use foam and honeycomb sandwich construction which is very stiff. Steel and aluminum boats don't flex. We don't know if small fiberglass yachts are built to flex or not but we think stiffer is better as flexing fiberglass will result in weakening stress cracks.
Wow, cant wait till its done! Think its going to look great and having a peace of mind of knowing whats done. Keep going guys. So when the next video up! ;-)
+Quinton Smith Coming soon. We are trying to get a video up at least once a week.
Have you considered gaskets? They can help distribute load, I was thinking of the join between the bulkheads and the hull, 10 fixing points, the force at each point might be spread over a bigger area at each point and also allow slightly more flexibility in changing climate conditions.
Just thought. 3M do a wide variety of doublesided tapes, some have extremely high bonding strength, ask them for some information, they're usually very helpful.
+umvhu Interesting. We have heard a lot of possible solutions but not this one. At this point it is too late to change course but we will research and report what we learn.
great video again. Quick question: Your main bulkheads halves dont have an attachment netween them on the bottom. Wouldnt putting a piece of wood there, in between the 2 halves, help with strenghtening by preventing movement between the 2 halves thus preventing the bolts on each bulkhead to move and enlarge the holes in the hull?
+ForSeTi Trimaran When we are done it will be all one unit.
One of the previous owners of my AV #2492 sandwich a 2" thick piece of white oak along side of the factory-installed cross beam making it now 4" thick. Nice huh? By the way what is your Vega's headroom? Mines 5'8" and I'm 5'11". This is my only complaint with mine. Well, maybe storage to some degree. Nice job you two are doing!
+Sv Octopus We have not measured it but it is near 5'10".
With an early production Vega, Im pretty much following the same formula with a bulkhead replacement glassed in place and a stronger beam as well. .The mast wiring route caused some water damage to the beam and some resulting compression. I suspect this is the likely culprit in most of these cases.
Still figuring out what to do about water following the wiring through the hole in the mast step. It has always been a problem. We made a silicon plug that the wires passed through. It helped a lot but did not stop the leak and when we took it apart we found a little rot at the top center of the beam. Wonder if there is something like the Blue Sea cable clam we used on the stern for the solar panel cable. They make one to accept a cable up to .56 in..... hmmmmmm
If you come up with a good solution, I would like to use it!
What if you had some steel plates fabricated that run along where the 10 fixing screws attach to the bulkhead?
+Living the Dream We did not think of that. Too late now.
Did you rewire the mast or your navigation lights?
can you replace the beam with aluminum? or steel?
Would doubling the bulkhead thickness solve the weak point problem and the beam at the same time?
+subdrvr It might. But it is too late now for us to go that way. Constructing a glass/resin/plywood composite bulkhead will be tremendously strong though; probably stronger and lighter than just thicker plywood and certainly much, much stronger than the original construction.
The beam is bent downwards at least 3/4" on my Vega. Mine is #48 built in 1966, so the beam may have been built stronger on boats produced later. I am very curious about how you will construct your new beam, because I will have to make a new one too. All your refit vids are very instructive and interesting to watch, so I'm very pleased to be able to follow your progress on the refit. Will you also be insulating the boat?
Thankyou and good luck! S/V Tiger Lily, Vega #48, Norway.
+Uffen Yes. We will be insulating with a new process/product called Insuladd. (We did not know Vegas were built as early as 1966)
+Uffen We would love to see a photo of your bent beam and we are sure that our friends on the AVA site would as well. Any chance you could email us a copy? vega1860@americanvega.org
Sure, I'll take a photo or two next time I'm in the marina. Previous owner has put in a new main bulkhead and a new beam, but I sincerely doubt this is done properly and with strong enough dimensions. I'll take a closer look and take some measurements.
The first Vega was built in 1965 as a mahogany hull and was the mother of all which came later. #2 was built in 1966, I believe as the first GRP version. You''ll find records of more than 400 Vega yachts on this site, including #1 and 2:
www.albinvega.info/type.asp?iType=33
Regards S/V Tiger Lily, Vega #48.
We are familiar with the Vega database that Steve Birch of the VAGB put together. We are in there too! But we thought that the first production boats were built in '69. Learn something new every day d8^)
+Uffen In the video, he checked the temp on the outside of the roof. The aim is to insulate the INSIDE from the outside temperature. A better test would be to use two containers, both the same color, one with and one without the product, then measure and compare the temperatures inside the containers. The surface temp on the outside, given the same color paint on both, should be the same, as the video illustrates. The Insuladd was recommended by a local aluminum boat owner. Worst case - it doesn't work so we remove the ceiling and install conventional insulation.
you say it has worked for over 30 years but we are going to fix what ain't broke .. say hey to Davey jones for me
+ed hondo Forty three years. Perhaps in your world, nothing ever wears out and needs repair or replacement.
These vids are never long enough. 😥
+Sir Oglesby I agree. I've heard a lot of the channels mention people have short attention spans. I suspect youtube is trying to convince them to make more and shorter videos.
+Sir Oglesby There are a number of factors. One is that UA-cam restricts new users to 15 minutes but, of course that does not apply to us. Another is the file size limit and upload time. But the main thing in our case is simply how much material we have to share and how much time we have to put it together. Attention span does matter though. One of the metrics that affect add revenue is viewer retention. If viewers drop out after a few minutes instead of watching the whole thing, or most of it, advertisers are less likely to place ads on your channel. We don't aim for any particular length but we do try to make them interesting enough that we would watch the whole thing ourselves. But we do plan to publish something substantially longer in the future - 45 minutes to an hour. We'll see how that goes.
+Cruising Lealea hey yall. I didn't mean as an indictment. Rather that I just always want more. Lmao. Great progress!!
Btw do yall have any knowledge of firearms and loving aboard?
+Sir Oglesby It all depends on where you love d;^) and where you intend to travel. Cruising in Alaska it is only prudent to have bear protection. Every boat we have been on up here has either a 12ga shotgun or a .45-70 rifle aboard. Hunters routinely travel by boat with their guns to get to island hunting areas in Southeast AK. Everywhere else the laws are complex and each state has it's own requirements. We would not even consider traveling internationally with firearms. It is just too much hassel. Even passing through Canada with guns on the way to or from Washington is a PITA and an added expense that we cannot justify.
interesting:)
Chuck, my ears perked up when you said you "just don't think the beam is the weak link in the system", but rather that the weakness was in "the way the bulkheads are attached to the hull."
I think this footage of mine may vindicate your opinion! We just bought a 1979 Vega, #3360. Although I didn't know exactly what I was looking at at the time I shot this 30 second video, I knew it looked really beefy. Comparing it to what I see in your video, it looks like Albin had become aware of the weakness, and taken steps to eliminate it. The bolts appear to be larger, and have a thick bronze backing plate.
I'd love to hear your thoughts:
ua-cam.com/video/QesVL0y8iQM/v-deo.html
.
I have never seen that setup before, but #3360 wold be a very late series 3 Vega and I have never seen one of those. Lealea, #1860, is a series 2 and has several improvements over series 1 boats like Williwa, #385. It could be a manufacturer's upgrade or an owner modification. Either way, it is a definite improvement.
Easy on the boat? You guys sailed to Hawaii at an average of 4 knots. Cant get easier than that.
Hi guys,Enjoy your refit pretty much as I went through almost (not as thorough though) the same with my Valiant 40 in 2008. For the connection of the bulkhead to the hull may I suggest drilling a few holes in the bulkhead between the bolts/screws as additional attachment points where you want to glass the bulkhead to the hull, that should give you a super stiff bulkhead with no chance for the bulkhead getting loose again. Glassing over the bulkhead is a good thing but the attachement point is still on the surface what you want is glass to glass as well. Hope I make sense to you would be easier with a piece of paper . . . You can have a look at the www.samlmorse.com Bristol Channel Cutter (build like tanks) for a complete instruction guide.Greetings from the cold BalticPatriceResourceful
+wisalbe The Bristol Channel Cutter is one of the very few boats that might tempt us to give up our Vega. Fine boats