The Story of Sonic Adventure
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- Опубліковано 3 лют 2022
- Japanese subtitles courtesy of Windii. Sadly, her entire channel was annhiliated. All of her amazing translation videos are gone. Here's a link to her Twitter. Please go support her.
/ girlbossuran
There was originally a whole part of this video about Sonic X's adaptation of this game, but I had to cut it out due to copyright. There's some very interesting things about how Sonic X executes this story. In a number of ways, it does things better. Though it also does just as much worse. But it is extremely interesting and I'd say it's worth a watch if you really like this story. There is some really good parts in there that should have been in this game. Gamma's ending in particular was made even better.
One detail I left out of the video is Chaos' tail. He apparently lost it when the Master Emerald broke, and gets it back, right? But his tail is only visible on Chaos 6. They never bothered to add it to Chaos 0. And that's still the case to this day. Obviously the design was done without the tail, and that was just made up to justify getting Big involved in the story.
I also forgot to mention that I feel Tails' arc could have been better established throughout his story. It only comes up at the one point where he has the dream. There really should have been a part in there where Tails has to do something without Sonic, but is too intimidated and backs out. Actually, I just though of something. Amy should have run into Tails instead of Sonic. Then he would have been too cowardly to take on Zero by himself and she gets captured. That woulda worked, and cut out some of the pointless stuff from Sonic.
By the way, why does Angel Island fall again at the end of the game? There's no explanation for it. I assume Chaos somehow does it to get the Emeralds there. But how? It's never explained and feels extremely contrived.
There was a lot of, "But whatever" in this video lol. Now that these games have actual stories, there's a lot more chances for there to be things that don't make sense. And that's going to be continuing for the entire series.
This video was a ton of work to make. Even more than the Classic lore one. But I hope it payed off. I've not seen anyone else go this in-depth on the story of this game. Usually people just list off the events that occur. But I wanted to delve more into the writing, storytelling, themes, everything. And I plan on doing the same for the rest of the series... Oh boy. What have I gotten myself into?
You can support me here if you want. ko-fi.com/pariah695 - Ігри
Knuckles didn't ask Tikal about the mysteries of his tribe because he's shy around girls 😔
This made my day
Yeah, he pointed that out in his classic video, you'd think he'd know that.
The continuity
Hmm he must of conquered that by the next game.
i am knuckles
One thing about "why did Eggman tell them his whole plan from the beginning". The fact multiple times in the story, every time sonic got an emerald Eggman swooped in and stole it shows that Eggman was using sonic as a way to gather all the emeralds for him
Huh...
@@WhatISawJuly7th by telling Sonic "hey I'm going after the Emeralds" he made his own job 20 times easier because all he had to do was wait for Sonic to grab the Emeralds and steal them out from under him
It's kinda like Neo Cortex baiting Crash Bandicoot to gather all the crystals, except those games made the plan a lot more obvious so less people criticize it.
@@hedgehogsonic11 yeah cause bro has 300 iq
@@LeafRazorStorm I feel like people often ignore these kind of subtle details in Sonic stories because they get on this attitude of "it's a Sonic game, of course it's badly written" so when they find something that doesn't seem to make sense at the most surface level they just chalk it off as bad writing. Not like I can blame them since there are also moments of genuinely bad writing and nonsensical stuff that just happends sprinkled in, I just wish people would try harder to come up with explainations for these things before getting all snarky about it.
Fun fact: the voices cheering in station square are actually a recording of the crowd from the game's reveal at the Tokyo international forum. It was a thank you to everyone who attended and then bought the final game. :ua-cam.com/video/_9xRC1oxrvo/v-deo.html
Fire
It is pretty much just like the Sonic Generations and Sonic Mania thing where they make the crowd shout out "Happy Birthday, Sonic!" Even if the one for Sonic Mania wasn't in the game, it was still pretty cool that Sonic Team has been doing this since Sonic Adventure. :)
I always thought that chaos was a water demon because water is shapeless, allowing it to move is a chaotic manner.
Chao are just condensed wet
I’ve never really understood the confusion about humans existing in Sonic’s world. I mean, Dr. Eggman is right there from the very beginning.
EXACTLY! Seriously, why is this such a big deal?
Eggman is a bit different from your traditional human.
@@fightingmedialounge519 sonic and his friends are also a bit different from your average animals, too. What’s your point?
@@robertwyatt3912 you can't be serious? My point is that it's one thing to have other humans exist in a similarly cartooish fashion to Eggman, but instead they seem to be going for releastic designs which would makes the genesis Era sonic cast seem far more out of place. Also their are plenty of settings that have one human character amongst animals, so Eggman existing doesn't inherently prove anything.
@@fightingmedialounge519 But nothing in any game even remotely suggests that Eggman is somehow different to all of the other humans.
One thing I wanted to point out: Eggman is a showman. He's very theatrical, and of course narcissistic. He goes out of his way to explain his plans because he wants to relish the dread on his enemies' faces as his machinations slowly come to fruition. It's for this reason that he tells Sonic and Co. about the whole Chaos situation. Also he's very short-sighted, as you pointed out, and kind of an asshole.
Also I do disagree about Chaos not slowly becoming a threat plot-wise. Chaos 0 and Chaos 2 were both pretty easily dispatched by single characters, but Chaos 4 had to be taken down by Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, while Chaos 6 was fought by Sonic and Big together, and then immediately afterwards by Knuckles. That's not to mention Perfect Chaos, who had to beaten by Super Sonic.
On the whole, a pretty great analysis. I feel like you were a bit hard and critical on the story given the game's not-so-smooth development and this being their first outing in 3d storytelling, but most of your points were valid and justified. Great job!
And from a storytelling perspective nothing would have changed, Eggman gives chaos the emeralds he goes rogue and everything would play out the same
Also him just outright saying “hey im looking for the chaos emeralds” means that he can just steal them from Sonic once they’re found, the hard work has already been done for him.
I interpreted the Super Sonic vs Perfect Chaos fight as Sonic basically giving Chaos positive chaos energy every time he runs through him, balancing out the negative chaos energy and calming him down
Same
The "positive v. negative" chaos stuff is a Woolseyism. It's not in the JP script.
@@galten7361 while the JP script doesn't explicitly mention positive and negative energy, it does say that Chaos harnessed chaos energy through anger and sadness and that Sonic can use their real power.
that isn't too far off and more importantly it doesn't outright disprove the possibility of positive and negative chaos energy existing, so my headcanon can still work imo
Now that I think about it. Amy and big are polar opposites. Big gets dragged in and saves his friend.
Amy wants to be here, she finds sonic and enjoys the adventure even with the astronomical danger. She misses it even.
This makes big's inclusion even more interesting.
Thank lord you used the Japanese version. Seriously, despite the fact that I play with English voices, I don't consider the English version to be the best version of the story. Also bravo with this whole sonic retrospective, this is the stuff I subscribe for.
I get so bothered when people criticize the writing in these games when the thing they're complaining about is a product of the translation. I'll probably point out some of the more egregious things as we go. Heroes and Shadow have it bad. Glad you're enjoying the series. I might take a break for a bit, though. These last 3 videos were exhausting to make. And I have a LOT to say about SA2.
The writting in the Japanese dub isn't that well written by itself(something you highlighted in thsi video).
@@Pariah6950I couldn't agree more. But why on sonic do the English dubs kept screwing up the stories?
I don’t necessarily agree that most of those things are pointless. Like the character interactions. Because it’s only pointless when looking at each story as it’s own story. Which is what you’re doing but… that’s not the game’s fault you’re doing that. They may be presented to us separately, but the intention is for us to play each of them. So we are definitely meant to see things that seem random and find out more about it from other angles. Personally, I really like this aspect of the game. It’s very natural feeling to be able to run into someone and the things they do don’t always revolve around just you or the main characters. There’s a story behind the things you don’t know or acknowledge. And they influence each other indirectly behind the scenes too. Seeing Knuckles on the Egg Carrier, for example, implies something happens we don’t know about regarding Chaos who we never see again except in a mural foreshadowing he’s definitely coming back.
Yeah, that definitely felt like whining for the sake of whining. It's like saying that Nick Fury shouldn't have shown up at the end of the first Iron Man because all he does is set up a different story.
Facts! Adventure's story Is literally trying to tie all 6 stories together. Now you can definitely fault it for not doing it entirely right with the case of Amy, Gamma or...ugh...Big, but to complain about characters interacting with each other being "pointless" or too much cutscenes for certain stories is just ridiculous things to complain about if you pay attention to the game's story.
Yeah ideally you’re supposed to look at all of the campaigns mixed into one so it’s it’s own story. Since that’s what it is, 1 campaign with 6 POV’s. Obviously stand-alone it might not seem that great, that’s why you’re supposed to combine all of them. _That’s_ how the story is meant to be viewed.
@@ILikeSoda229in the SA2 story video he actually used a mod to see the hero story and dark story as one story,he could just have put the cutscenes in order and the "pointless" interactions would be less bad
1:10:30 I know the canon scenario is that Sonic wins this fight, but I always liked the idea that gamma was about to win but was stopped by Amy, it adds a neat detail that Eggman finally makes a robot that can best Sonic, but unfortunately for Eggman it developed a conscious.
"it's just kind of weird that Chaos is water"
I think there is an argument to be made that chaos as a concept is rather fluid and reactionary, seriously look up the Chaos Theory sometime, fascinating science. But it makes a lot of sense in my mind that Chaos would be made of water, something that can easily grow and shrink, move in unexpected and chaotic ways, fill anything or move throught he smallest cracks.
Also he's blue.
40:40 its bc sonic team wanted the villain to be sonic's weakness wich is water, however that was never touched through the events, sonic didnt even show any kind of hesitation to attack him. So yeah another flaw of the story whatsoever
that's actually one of the things i think sonic's story would benefit a lot in this game, show that he actually get's beaten by chaos by himself and actually need tails', knuckle's and even big's help to beat chaos. Imagine if in the chaos 0 fight attacking chaos directly results in you getting knocked out, and you need for the cops to get chaos distracted so you can land an attack. than when chaos gets 1 emerald instead of sonic letting him run with eggman, chaos actually beats sonic and tails, and the chaos 4 time they barely do it with knuckles help. This would actually raise the stakes and make chaos actually seam like the foel eggman needed to beat sonic and counquer the world, if it was not for sonic's ability to make friends by being the nice guy he is. This could even tie in with tails' story about not realizing he could do things on his own and sonic really valueing their friendship, since sonic couldn't beat chaos alone
@@Canalbiruta And then just like before Tikal explains that there is more to Chaos than meets the eye through visions. Genius.
27:23 I'm pretty sure the emerald altar has always existed.The only reason Knuckles had the Master Emerald inside the hidden Palace Zone was the guarded from Sonic that's why the Island didn't start flying when the Death Egg first left it in Sonic 3.
I always like to think that in universe, the echidna clan is called “Knuckles” because it’s their defining warrior trait hence why they design their weaponry around it (i.e shovel claw) And that knuckles being the last of their kind was named after the clan
That's awesome. Yes.
44:32 Actually Tikal tells him the similar thing, as well as some other echidna NPCs say "the Emeralds can turn thoughts into a power".
About the everyone cheering for Sonic thing, I feel like the background characters do matter in this game because they all have storylines to them if you talk to them repeatedly throughout the game, like the girl who slowly makes her way into the pizza shop to get close to the guy there. I think they are all documented somewhere. It’s just a different form of storytelling for anyone who became invested in their lives by exploring every dialogue piece of the game and implying they didn’t die (as crazy as that is given the visuals)
Omg thank you for mentioning this detail
it just makes the world feel more alive,the same thing is with the characters just meeting each other for no reason,it is normal to stumble upon a friend,it just makes it feel like not everything that you see happening with someone else is about you,that just makes the world and characters feel more alive and be more like actual people,people sometimes stumble upon friends,that is normal,it's like saying that nick fury shouldn't have shown up at the end of the first iron man movie because he sets up another plot. the story of sonic adventure is literally 1 story viewed from 6 point of views,and you are supposed to view each campaign as one story,this review/analysis would've been way better if he viewed each campaign as one big story instead of viewing each campaign as its own separate story
Sonic X shoes the humans in Station Square running into shelters.
Well this was a lot more critical than I expected. But fine. I don't believe anything is flawless. I do like the direction this game went through and the ideas, I am all for it. Despite the flaws and laughable cutscenes, I still can't help but enjoy the story here. You can say this is my guilty pleasure. But its undeniable that there is some things in this story that works.
Even if Sonic and Knuckles were not really spectacular compared to the others, I can give Sonic some slack cause I think his was mostly a warm up since the Sonic player here expects the usual same old Sonic vs Eggman fight, which they get it here, but with cutscenes. But through the story, we see glimpses of other characters going through their own story, which I believe could show interest for a first time player back in the day. Obviously, its not perfect, but I like what they tried to do. I think they should try it again, but improve on it to make the story experience more immersive. (Not to mention more Classic Game references)
I also really like Tikal as a character. Her story really was the glue of the story, and kinda the Classic Games, since we heard of the calamity that destroyed an ancient society, and its connections to Knuckles race, and we finally see it unfold here. I personally would have liked for the story to treat it as a very big revelation for both Sonic and Knuckles. Or have Tikals scenes make a little more sense for the characters. But I think she chose the 6 playable characters cause they are connected to the Chaos Emeralds or Chaos himself in some way. Sonic and Knux seems obvious. Tails with grabbing the Yellow Emerald. Amy with obliviously hold the bird that had an Emerald on her pendant. And Big and Gamma holding Froggy, who had Chaos tail at the time. Not exactly the same thing as the Emeralds, but Chaos did seem to have a connection to the Emeralds in the first place, so I buy it. But I also just enjoy how nice Tikal is. But she isn't flawless since she lost everything just because her Father was that obsessed for war and killing, which kinda soured her soul with sealing Chaos, and it took Sonic and his heroics to make her reconcile with Chaos again.
I would like to have a remake improve things. I been hoping for it, even though I was unsure if they would just make it HD like before, or make it on scratch. Remaking the story sounds a bit too good to be true, but I would be content with the cutscenes being the only ones remade since I just like this story, flaws and all. It was the beginning of the Modern Sonic that introduced me to my favorite Sonic characters. Even if I don't mind the cutscenes personally, and I even find them funny, this story would benefit from an updated look. (personally I'd like for an anime adaptation of it, even if we saw Sonic X adapt it, it wasn't perfect)
Sorry for the long comment, I guess I just felt like letting out my own opinion on this games story. Its nice to see someone really go deep into the story of Sonic. Really gives me some things to work with as a result. So good work.
Let’s just hope we could get an Adventure 1 and 2 Remake that improves the Story,gameplay, etc.
A leaker who's got a perfect track record with his past leaks being right, revealed that SEGA Shanghai, same guys that pulled off remaking NiGHTS for PS2 [which is the version that came to Steam, PS3, and 360], WERE working on a remake of SA1, which was so impressive SEGA Japan had them also start work on an SA2 remake, BUT, this was just before Sonic BOOM kicked off, and with the astronomical losses caused by Rise of Lyric and then Cartoon Network brushing off the animated series to Boomerang, both games were put on hold along with a TON of side projects while SEGA re-evaluated their approach and tried to regain financial stability.
So TL;DR there were remakes that were started but thanks to a classic SEGA move shit got fucked
@@aortaplatinum
Well sh*t
@@aortaplatinum SEGA's stupid, just watch the horrible anti-marketing Frontiers' having.
@@aortaplatinum they'll hop back on the projects one day.
Ngl, you complaining about knuckles and amy being "pointless" in sonics story and many pointless things kinda sounds like personal preference in storytelling or nitpicks rather than actual issues cause I actually love the idea of having things happen in sonics story then them making more sense upon playing other stories to put it all together, it's fun.
I love the connection to all the other stories, infact, this is my favorite method of storytelling actually, this kind of story structure is just so good to me.
I think this method of storytelling has some fundamental issues. But it can be done well. The execution here has a lot of problems. Despite its many other issues with the story, I'd actually argue 06 does this same thing quite a bit better.
Okay as an artist, I got to say the world of Sonic Adventure is the same design wise to the classic era. The only different is that the world is rendered in a realistic art style compared to the absurd pop look of the classic games (and that mainly being 1-2 + CD, 3 is more inline with Adventure. Speed Highway and Green Hill Zone look to belong to the same world especially in a game like generations that makes the effort to translate Green Hill to that more realistic style. To act like the world doesn't work is kind of ignorant to the work that has been done in Adventure's own design. Windy Valley and again Speed Highway are intrinsically Sonic; these crazy and absurd worlds which seemingly fit with Sonic like peanut butter and jelly. And they still have that mystery in places like Lost World and even I'd say Windy Valley. Those elements are still there. I think the idea that Sonic can only be 'Green Hill Zone and all these elements from those classic games' is detrimental to the series because if anything Sonic is about experimentation, improvement, and never giving up. It's why I don't think something like even 06 or Unleashed are not like 'Sonic' because since the first game he has always been improving what it means to be a video game and his world has been shifting style ever since the first game. Adventure isn't Sonic 1 because it has no reason to be. It has its own identity that still fits within the established world and style that Sonic has made for itself. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but like coming from an artistic perspective it makes sense.
The stages fit well with the Genesis Era especially when you look at the stages in the 3D games. The hubs were designed to show off the Dreamcast's tech.
For Knuckles story they could have easily just had a moment were he realizes its a memory and hes not actually being transported to he past. Would explain why he doesn't try asking the other Echidnas about his role.
Actually fun fact about that ge thinks it's a dream throughout his campaign saying thing like "was that a dream....seems more like a nightmare"
Tbh, Adventure Sonic is the best Sonic to me. He just feels like a great mix between early Japanese and American Sonic, and just is very lovable.
The story of Gamma has to be the greatest Sonic story ever told. There is so much depth and emotion to it and it’s conveyed through robots. I was getting goosebumps and chills listening to you reiterate it. That story always stuck with me.
Regarding the "Why is Chaos water, anyway?" argument, here's my theory to this.
Looking at Sonic 2 - 3k, what is the one plot line that they share? It's that Sonic was adventuring on these islands that were once civilized continents that was then completely wiped out due to misuse of power.
Fast forward to Sonic Adventure, we've seen exactly what that would look like in modern time through the Perfect Chaos vs Super Sonic fight. Notice how Station Square is looking pretty "island-ish" with how broken up it became during that fight?
So to bring this all together, Chaos being _water_ helps his character designer retroactively explain how the Classic Era settings were left by Chaos's mark by them becoming _islands_ .They're just destroyed land masses drifting along the remnants of Perfect Chaos's water, but was forgotten due to time, and it's history could only be pieced together through folk lore and legends.
Last thing, @48:40
You've misinterpreted the final fight. It's not that both Perfect Chaos and Super Sonic are fighting, *It's actually that Perfect Chaos is in blind rage destroying the city while Super Sonic quickly **_sooths him and helps change his outlook through pure positivity_* . Sonic says himself that you can't just _beat_ Chaos, because his _anger_ would just last onto another unsuspecting generation (since he's immortal). This is the reason why the "negative and positive" aspect of the Chaos Emeralds came in place, and more importantly, _WHY_ Super Sonic is aiming for the head to focus himself becoming pure positive energy. It's for the brain, and that positive energy is nurturing his unrelenting emotions (This is why I thought the Perfect Chaos fight in Sonic Generations was pretty stupid and missing the point entirely lol... but ya know... new writers and all that =P)
Also, if you notice, I'm binge watching your stuff. I may not agree with everything, but I love when I see some Sonic heads actually knowing their shit =) Keep up the good work.
Honestly, I really don't think there was any more thought put into Chaos being water than them just wanting him to be transparent.
Sonic does not say he can't beat Chaos. He says that sealing him again will not actually solve the problem. He's referring more to attempting to put off the problem like Tikal did as opposed to resolving it. And regardless of what it supposed to be happening there, they're still just fighting. I'm saying they should have executed it in a different way that better communicated the idea.
@@Pariah6950 Oh yea, possibly. I was just throwing my lil idea. It probably is way more out there than it needs to be lol.
But "sealing", "fighting", "beating". It's all the same idea, which Sonic clearly acknowledged. The solution was to "calm" him, not just make him angrier. He can’t die to begin with. They clearly explained the "negative / positive" energy concept to show you can't _just_ fight Chaos. They didn't just "ignore" what they just explained to us. Super Sonic being made up of pure positive energy, being the embodiment of Sonic's sense of justice, prosperity, hope and nurture is Sonic's unique way of showing there're other ways to settle a situation other than through repeated violence. It just shouldn't be looked at face value, because everything can look minimalized and degenerate if the message being sent out isn't trying to be fully understood. I know it went over my head when I was a kid, but became much more clear after a revisit.
Also, what else was Sonic Team going to do without it compromising the actual showdown for those actually playing the game? I thought it was a nice spin that you aren't just beating the shit out of a final boss like in typical fashion, but actually soothing it. I feel like utilizing Super Sonic any other way for the "fight" would be boring and disappointing for the player. Could you imagine having that entire build up of wanting to fight Perfect Chaos since the first opening cinematic… and then you _don’t_ end up “fighting” it? People would be angry and critiquing _that_
@@Pariah6950 Chaos deities are represented as sea serpents in various mythologies. To ancient people the sea was tumultuous and dangerous. I assumed that Sonic Team used that as an inspiration for Chaos being a water monster in this game.
@@NobodyNewtype that and Sonic being weak against water
Angel Island became a floating island from Knuckles' ancestors making it float.
You did really good job with the stories and brought some really good points about them. Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see what you do with the stories of other games.
It's always been insanely impressive to me the story that was told in SA1 with such amateur presentation, since NiGHTS and Burning Rangers both had like less than 1 minute total of in-engine cutscenes, so SonicTeam's animators were more used to animating for gameplay instead of story. However, the storyboarding and cinematography is SO STRONG here, that this limited programmed-strings-of-animations system and SonicTeam's "still trying to get used to animating cutscenes" becomes much more interesting. Gamma's ending and Froggy discovering an Emerald and being possessed by Chaos' tail are both great examples.
Speaking of Chaos' tail, why is he never shown with it in his Chaos 0 form? It makes sense that he never has his true tailed Chaos 0 form in this game, but in SA2B and Battle and Forces and all the comics, he's always got that little nub that's clearly not his entire tail.
Also thank you VERY MUCH for using 4:3 even though you're using the Steam release with mods, I can't stand seeing games made for 4:3 480i max, with those limitations removed and you can suddenly see all the cracks crystal clear in 16:9 1080p
This isn't my footage. It's all taken from Windii's videos that are all gone.
Absolutely great series if videos. Really enjoying these dissections on when these plots work and the many times they fail to. Breath of fresh air in the Sonic side of UA-cam; your content is underrated.
I appreciate the time you've taken on these videos exploring the games. Really impressive stuff, even an avid Sonic fan since I was 4 years old and I've learned so much from your videos.
I absolutely love these videos when you bring up a sonic story. it's soothing and I like listening to it very much.
When it comes to getting rid of the robots, he was probably hoping that they would all bring back the right frog together. He just didn't bother to make sure that they would do so since he never thinks ahead most of the time.
I'm really liking your content due to how you articulate and execute your scripts and ideas, when it comes to story of Adventure Era Sonic Games, most people would gush about it no matter if they experienced them in either Japanese or English, but in your dissections; you not only see the flaws in them, but in the *japanese* version of the story on top of that. (When others tend to criticize the story by the lens of the English localization, and talk about how superior the Original Japanese script is.) The objectiveness in your Sonic Story videos does wonders to the presentation and overall feel of the video, it makes them shine, in a way other channels explaining the story can't replicate, and I highly applaud you for your efforts to create this feel.
Thank you. I was hoping I'd be able to say something different about these games, considering how much they've already been discussed. So many people treat these games like the best or worst games ever, when they are neither. I try to be fair with how I look at them.
btw, my videos aren't scripted. It's just me talking.
i really enjoyed listening to this and watching it. very calm, thoughtful, and isn't just assblasting the game. also, you're very easy to listen to. i like your accent and inflection. 10/10
47:11 there are some NPCs in Station Square that'd mention events from prior games, namely a kid in the train station who mentions Sonic saving Angel Island and Little Planet. Sonic has to at least be known about, but it's weird how it's barely referenced.
It was cut from the Eng script.
@@galten7361 only the Little Planet reference is cut I thought? I'm pretty sure they still mention Angel Island in the English version. (I think it's one of the kids in the train station specifically)
I've watched almost every single one of your videos. I'm already well versed in the lore and history but you make very interesting observations and your witty comments are hilarious. Keep up the good work 👍 👍
I mean for the missile plan it makes sense to have back up plans
Also the missile plan only gets one city and does nothing to secure control of the area afterwards. One assumes Robotnik wants to eventually take more land and hold onto it by using Chaos
As flawed as the English dub was,it had some genuinely great additions like slightly changing the dialogue for the repeated cutscenes and a certain line in Big’s story that makes him more likable.
Plus the thing about Sonic joking more is more of a improvement imo,they could’ve done something about toning down the one-liners and jokes but overall I prefer what they did for the dub.
39:33 Actually it's more like a dream (according to Tails' reaction to Sonic's "snooze cruise").
Thanks for this video! It's just what I needed because I'm making a jumpchain with the sonic adventure games as a jump.
No man. Tikal isn't sending them bodily back in time. The other characters even confirm that the flashbacks just make them space out for a second. She's just communicating with them herself.
Also, you don't get how water and chaos are thematically similar? Have you ever spilled a glass of water before? Lol
Edit: after seeing the gamma analysis. Because beta and gamma are the Birdy family, I thought that beta was a bit less petty than you said. I thought his incredible upgrades were a representation of eggmans torture of the family of birds. The endless agression. Like beta is a slave in an extra way over gamma because he's a slave to the agressive programming. I think beta also was becoming self aware in a way because he insisted on the fight and made sure to strike a finishing blow
Being born in 92’ and growing up with Sonic on the sega this game was so fun when it came out on Dreamcast. We didn’t care about the settings not making sense because this was so new. The Dreamcast was an amazing machine, it made my childhood so much better. From powerstone, Sonic shuffle, sonic adventures, crazy taxi… So many great games, yes they had flaws but oh were they fun.
I believe everything involving Knuckles, Tikal, the Chaos Emeralds, the Echidna Tribe, the Chao, & Chaos should all be removed from Sonic Adventure's story & instead combined into a solo Knuckles the Echidna game.
A reason I hated the repeated cutscenes is that, in the original release, you couldn't even skip them. Skippable cutscenes and load times are honestly the sole reason I prefer the rereleases.
I don't know what to say, you make some good points but I honestly love everything about this story dude. And it's not a nostalgia thing cause I played this in 2019
Well when I was a kid the terrible animations didn’t take away from my experience lol Sonic was Sonic *and he was in 3D* which was all I cared about when I was 7. I was floored and excited and *played the crap out of the game,* and I was extremely invested in the story.
I still sit down and enjoy the original Dreamcast version occasionally
I can say there are points on the story I disagree on, but I will mainly say I don't agree on the whole 'Sonic should resolve this more peacefully', as that isn't the best way to put it. I think Sonic fighting Chaos makes sense because Chaos is in a blind rage, as it is likely Tikal has tried to calm him down off screen (of course they could of shown this, but I digress) seeing she probably had a lot of chances to talk to him, that will not work at least with the Tikal way. Sonic's way is to knock some sense into him until he realizes he can't keep being angry. After Chaos is basically beaten he is more willing to talk and his rage is subdue.
It makes enough sense to me. What I want to know is, what would be a better idea? Like I would like to know what they could do without Sonic being violet against Chaos.
As an idea off the top of my head, have the boss be about protecting the city and eventually binding Chaos in place so he can't move. Then have Tikal and the chao approach Chaos (ideally the chao should also be established before the fight, showing concern for Chaos). And now that he can't move, he doesn't ignore them in his blind rage. Seeing them calms him, and he turns back to his base form.
@@Pariah6950 Hmm that boss fight sounds like the city would have a health bar, sigh what's another mechanic to this game after all the minigames, am I right. I personally find the fight good as it is, but ok. The binding... I guess we can also make up stuff as well, like either Eggman had something that looks like it could hold Chaos or the Chaos Emeralds do something along with Super Sonic.
Your idea... Sounds possible. I do prefer the way the game handles the boss fight, but yours sounds like it could happen. It would be cool if we could have alternate ways to win boss fights, but that may be too much to ask from a game nearing it's 24 age.... Geez this game is old!
@Pariah6950 Save it for the next Sonic show.
50:21 According to Ian Flynn, both Tikal and Chaos are dead, which is why they haven't been reused in the comics.
I prefer every Japanese sonic more then the western one, he is just so chill and actually mature
So I think that Eggman, built the Rocket as a fail safe, if things went wrong for him(which they did, so he actually needed to launch 🚀, probably before he finished setting up the detonator settings because he rushing back and forth from his lab, to fight Sonic....
Thats exacly what i was thinking too
8:10 It seems ironically that a lot of writers find Sonic the least interesting character
23:14 the destruction of station square was meant to be an example of the kind of power eggman commands he wanted to do it with chaos to instill greater fear in the world but thinks to sonic he's forced to use his contingency plan
There are a couple of reasons why Eggman didn't use the missile right away and way trying to use Chaos first. Firstly is Sonic, Since Sonic was in Station Square, he would easily stop missile in a matter of seconds, either before or after it launched. But since Sonic was no longer in Station Square, Eggman took that chance to launch the missile.
Secondly There is the also radiations. If Eggman went ahead and used the missile, then he had to wait for the radiation from the explosion to die down before he could start building Eggman Land, which could take weeks or even longer depending how big the explosion was, and seeing how was hoping destroy a whole city with one missile than that means that would be one powerful missile and the radiation from would probably taken months to go away before Eggman can safely build his city without worrying about getting radiation poisoning.
I like that your videos just feel like I have a very nerdy & opinionated friend ranting his unfiltered takes at me
That's the idea. I want it to sound like it's just me talking with a buddy about games.
@@Pariah6950 keep it up man, i been binging em. quality content.
I think a cool thing to put together tails's stories would be for him to make the SA2 mech at the end of adventure
The positive energy of super sonic neutralizes Chaos’ rage thats why they fight and how he calms Chaos
cuz the way the cutscenes are i kinda headcanon that tails in sonic's story seems him like he is the one that is gonna defeat gamma while in reality he is just projecting what he wants to be while sonic is doing it and all of that aplies to most stories
I actually kinda looked at Gamma saving his brothers and himself via their own destruction, as the only way they can be free is by ceasing to exist any longer, but also that as long as they continue existing, animals and those like Amy will not be safe with them staying functional, as eggman can quite literally just take them and modify them to his content whenever he wants and the way he wants, which could mean that even though Gamma got away from his influence, that he can still be forced back into this easily using other robots to capture or help wipe his memory before getting rebooted and or modified and then all that work would have been in vain.
I agree with you on a lot of points but a lot of it I feel like you are just being pissed off at the games story for views some of your "flaws" aren't even flaws that anyone would ever think about unless they are trying to make a youtube video of it like you went on a 10 minute rant about how at the end of the game they destroyed the city as if this wasn't done in 200 video games and 4,000 movies they did it because it looked badass just like everything else that has done this exact thing I get with an old game it's gonna have story flaws worth mentioning and I'm cool with that and will accept this but a lot of this feels forced
I think you can feel a little bit of a difference with the Tornado 2, only when it transforms. I find that it moves faster when it moves across the x and y access (for lack of better explanation), and so does the movement of the retical. highlighting the reason why its predecessor failed the first time, it could not dodge the Egg Carrier's laser fast enough.
58:58 yeah that's the point Amy see's the humanity in everyone that IS her character if tails was in their he would not have this also works with Amy's appearance in the net game
I mean as a kid a lot of the animation stuff didn't really bother me. I was just happy to play a 3D Sonic that could speak. I got a Dreamcast just for this game, and loved it.
Maybe Chaos was plan A because the missile Eggman launched was a nuke, which would have made the area completely uninhabitable to anyone. No idea why he didn't just siege the city with the Egg Carrier, though. Or why Eggman is apparently so pissed off at having been foiled again that he's apparently willing to blow himself up...
39:33 she is probably reacreating these timeperiods in ther mind and sending these characters to her mind where she can "physically" show them the past
Agreed
41:46 That part was prescient for how most disasters are treated nowadays. Ppl just don't give a crap anymore.
Chaos being a water creature may tie to the chaos theory. One easy explanation of rhe chaos theory is the one in jurassik park (93).
Loved all of your videos so far! I'm just wondering if you're gonna dissect the Sonic advance series at some point
Of course.
@@Pariah6950 awesome! I at least think that the advance series (advance 3 specially) has more going on than the 8-bit games... Also there's the sonic battle thing with emerl while advance has gemerl and idk what's going on there
Like you say at the end, Adventure's story is the kind of thing that is really interesting to read about on a wiki article, but in execution, it was pretty messy. This, more than the gameplay, honestly, is why I would like a good remake of this game; just to clean up the writing and get this story some actually decent cutscenes.
We did it Patrick! We saved the town!
@The lost bits it's a bit in Spongebob where they're standing in the flaming ruins of their home town
Coming back to this video just to say how interesting it is to me that TOTK’s Zelda and Tikal are very much similar. In both games the player likely receives messages from them nonlinearly that portray how a powerful evil came to be and how they are eventually sealed away by ancient artifacts.
Honestly, I never saw it that way. But looking back, you're right. It was really nice seeing Sonic show up at the end of Big's story. Seeing this dude just show up and offer to help you. It feels good. Gameplay for Big is still shit.
I think a simple explanation as to why some places in Sonic’s world look realistic and some places in Sonic’s world look wild and surreal is because, almost everytime that a Sonic game takes place in a more surreal environment, there are ways to access the Special Zone. In all the games that take place in a more realistic location, there are no special stages. So perhaps in areas with higher concentrations of Special Stage warps, or areas that have some special connection to the Emeralds, the environment is affected by and changed by the higher levels of Chaos energy. Similar to your head canon that the animal characters are mutated by Chaos energy from the Classic Sonic lore video. This especially makes a lot of sense with the various settings of the Classic games all having some deeper connection to the Emeralds, implying the Emeralds constantly travel to those islands over the course of hundreds and hundreds of years. That’s just what I think tbh
The story of this game was so good
16:49 the reason why eggman said that was so he can get sonic and tails to find the emeralds so he can steal them later
Weird story problem: the whole reason Chaos even becomes Perfect Chaos is because Sonic and Tails for some reason didn’t take the Emerald out of the Tornado2. It’s such a weird thing for them to forget about given how they're trying to stop Chaos from getting the Emeralds.
Well how would You make it better
Ahhhhhh September 9th, 1999, two days after I turned 17. My sister called me up that evening. She and her boyfriend (whom worked at the Electronics Boutique at the Mall of America) had just bought the Dreamcast and the new Sonic. I *HAD* to come over to see it. It was too late for the 3 hour bus ride over to their apartment so I had to wait until the next day. I bumped and jostled my way up to their place to see this wonder...it immediately bored the shit out of me. I tried playing and spun off of a turn through the ground. I had always been a HUGE 2D Sonic fan. Honestly that first taste really put me off of 3D Sonics for a loooooooonnnnnggggg time. Never played much of this and literally none of Adventure 2. Your videos have sort of talked me into giving them a shot. Mods have hopefully had enough time to fix the jank.
As for the preference for the Japanese story, as a big Archie Sonic fan (up until Ken Penders' fuckening of it) I take a bit more of a pragmatic approach. Generally I just see them as separate continuities. Still wish Archie Sonic had gotten a game that had a playable Bunny and Sally beyond Sonic Spinball. (Sonic Spinball is also REALLY underrated IMO too.) I think it could be interesting to hear you take a deep dive into the Archie/IDW/Sonic X/Sega official stories. Especially now that IDW is writing the Frontiers storyline. If nothing else you can poke fun at Ken Penders'. That NEVER gets old.
I knew I wasn’t the only one underwhelmed with Sonic’s story
"Normal ass city ass city"
"Normal ass real world"
Nice video. That was interesting, it’s ironic that the “side” characters have the better stories lol
love that someone can make a movie long video to talk about the story of sa1 :)))))
I guess the reason why Super Sonic fights against Perfect Chaos in order to "pacify" him is due to the whole "shounen" logic of having an honorable fight, a pure physical exchange without words or deception, so that Chaos might understand Sonic's feelings.
I don't know, clearly Open Your Heart is meant to be the theme of Super Sonic and therefore its lyrics are the key to understanding the situation.
idk about the hub world / levels nitpick. A lot of games were like that in that era, and even games have been like that the time between now and then. And there’s still crossover, like the sewer area in station square
I do really like your videos btw. This one too :)
The hub worlds are one of the best things about the game. I like it when they try to connect the levels and make the world feel like a cohesive place. It can be difficult to do that in a platformer with lots of disparate environments. Many hubs aren’t as creative, sometimes literally a “hub” with portals, or even just a level select you walk your character around.
I wish they had hubs in SA2, but it probably wouldn’t work for that game, as the stages are spread far apart, with most characters only having one in each area. But imagine that 2D stage select map, fully explorable and rendered in 3D. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t be cool.
I always thought that sonic adventure was just a sonic and knuckles game with upgraded graphics and added characters
"im a giant weeaboo" -🤓
@@maude7420 i know that im not a dumbass
if you’ve seen it, how do you like the sonic x adaptation of this game? i thought it was pretty good, i prefer the story in this one but the presentation in that one is miles better cuz it’s anime.
Very interesting. Presentation is much better, obviously. And they enhance a number of things. Amy and Gamma's ending happening at the same time so Amy can witness Gamma's death and thank him is SOOO much better than the game versions. Also Knuckles gets all the flashback stuff, as it should be. And GUN attempting to stop Chaos and actually seeing people trying to survive the flooding is really good. And because there is a human cast of characters in the show and Sonic has helped these people in the first season, it has more impact when they all cheer for Sonic. Some character themes are lost however, like Amy and Big. No Open Your Heart for the Super Sonic fight is just so wrong, though.
I had a whole section of the video covering the X adaptation that I had to cut due to copyright.
@@Pariah6950 I think the fact that Gamma dies alone, with no one to witness his good deed, is what makes his sacrifice the more tragic. Amy will likely never know that Gamma sacrificed his own life to save the Flicky inside him: the only witness is the Flicky he just released from Beta. The Sonic X adaptation makes it less impactful when it removes that context from Gamma's death.
Knuckles is always chilling in mushroom hill, so he probably thought he was just tripping
49: 40 yeah, except what sonic is doing to xahaos and what chief did are under completely different circumstances. Not to mention the entire game has several characters use violence to solve their issues with positive framing by the narrative, so I don't think the message was just anti violence.
47:00 honestly, if they could have made Sonic’s story much more interesting, compelling, and fix this issue, by having his main story be him trying to negate the damages caused by Eggman and helping the people in crisis. Eggman could be trying to slow Sonic down by making him choose between helping people and following him. There could be things of people being captured by robots and Sonic having to free them. There could be sections where Sonic has to run around inside a falling building and bring everybody to safety. He could help the people in big and small ways, while also trying to get to Eggman. That’d also make it so that Eggman isn’t just stealing the Emeralds from Sonic and Tails every time. It could have more variety in the way Eggman gets each one, maybe even managing to grab it right from under their noses.
This is my favorite game.
i'm in favour of sonic's story being simple in this and sa2 and 2006. its the first one you'll pick. then the other stories complexify the overall narratives from each game more before building up to a darker last story
Is it possible that knuckles inherited the spirit and the sense of tikal as an guardian of the master emerald? I say this because the knuckles tribes didn't seem to care about guarding it. I would go out on a limb and say Tikal was speaking to knuckles since birth and telling him to guard it. I think from a game play perspective it could explain the radar system in Sa1 and 2 because in sa1, knuckles can sense all the emerald pieces at once because of tikal influence but in sa2, he detects them one at a time since tikal spirit has moved on but left a bit of her power with knuckles
I actually think Sonic X improves upon thia and the sequels stories by quite a bit. Largely due to the series beforehand better tying into it and making the separate character stories connect more.
Chaos needed his own story mode
I heard the original Dreamcast version had slightly better looking cutscenes but the rereleases screwed it up
in my personal opinion chaos should have been Knuckles main antagonist instead of Sonic.
Eggman likes to announce his plans so I think that's why Eggman showed off Chaos.
@@themissingbits6375 It was obviously a trap to make Sonic and Tails go after the Chaos Emeralds so Eggman's job would be much easier.
You mentioned how you don't really buy that stages such as windy valley coincide with station square. And I'm pretty sure you've mentioned before that you believe humans do fit in sonic's world. I feel like you kinda have to come to terms that these two things work at the same time. If you made everything in the world go in a full classic direction in esthetics, then it wouldn't really make sense to have humans in these environments, especially if you take into account how complex the level designs of the classics are. Like, does that mean there will be loops in cities where humans live? And if you go fully into the realistic direction, then loops and crazy set pieces would look kinda odd if it were apart of the world's actual natural environment. I think sonic adventure created this nice balance. It had some cartoony classic elements while combining elements that would make more sense with the real world that humans live in. Even besides all this, this game has angel island, it looked cartoony in sonic 3 but here they adapt it to have some realistic elements. Saying stages like windy valley don't fit is like saying stages like ice cap or red mountain don't fit, yet these are stages on angel island. I feel like stages like red mountain still feel in line with esthetic with more cartoony stages like lava reef. Although i guess you do bring up a fair point that it can look a bit off with stages like speed highway.
Humans I think could fit in the more traditional Classic Sonic world if they had a similarly cartoon/anime inspired design, similar to Sonic himself. The realistic humans or Pixarish ones of Unleashed I don't think gel that well. SA1's anime humans look okay enough, I'd say. And I'd actually be totally down with loops and stuff in the cities in the background.
@@Pariah6950 That's actually not that bad of an idea. I think they could push that anime style in a direction similar to the design of humans and the sonic characters of sonic x. or for the more classic design i guess humans could look similar to the people in that "Sonic Jam: Man of the Year" cartoon.
Hard disagree on a lot of this. I think the game has a great plot, but very enjoyable video.
Well isnt Eggman focused on Chaos instead the rocket cause be is a safer bet? Like you can create a giant water demon monster that should be ultimate weapon or you can use rocket that Sonic probably will destroy outrun and so on. Also i dont think that this rocket would wipe out whole town more like i will destroy the town by killing bunch of people and destroying most important parts of it. Idk it just make sense for me that eggman would go for the more powerful "weapon" first.
I heard crows like shiny objects.
I hope Echidnas turn out to be little critters who would objectively guard... Like... guard a piece of broken beer bottle fo life.
"I DUNNO WHY IM DOING THIS *BUT IT MUST BE RIGHT*"
1:07:50 eggman expected the four of them to work together to find forggy not them to seperate to find him