Sonic Frontiers - First Impressions
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2022
- For anyone who might want to try my control configuration, I did some further testing and found setting acceleration up to 100 felt better. So I recommend doing that.
Fun fact. I had to redo the entire audio recording for this video because I was getting way too in-depth. Not even halfway into the game and I talked about it for almost an hour on accident. It was basically a full review. But I gotta save a lot of that for SWAG. But rest assured, I have so much more to say about this game.
One thing I did want to mention but forgot, the UI in this game is awful. So slow and clunky for no reason. And upgrading stats takes forever. Such dumb mistakes to make.
You can support me here if you want. ko-fi.com/pariah695 - Ігри
It's crazy how much more fun the game looks in this footage than in the trailers
It also helps that I actually know how to play and try to experiment and do advanced stuff. Preview footage of games usually only shows the most basic gameplay for some reason.
@@Pariah6950 cause casuals aren't gonna really go in-depth with the game and games nowadays try to appeal to the widest crowd possible
i have not myself messed around with tweaking the way Sonic handles, but this video is inspiring me to give it a go
Frontiers definitely smacks of Sonic Team's first attempt at an open world, and it's super casual-oriented. The platforming feels like somewhat of an afterthought with how haphazardly its placed and its separation from the open zone. The customizable physics also necessitate a degree of automation in the gameplay. I feel like it would be really easy to get burned out if you played this game for too long at once, it seems fun but a bit formulaic
In general it really feels like they did not have the time to fully realize Frontiers' vision (which is nothing new to ST) but also that they are heavily appealing to casuals. The combat is incredibly specatcle-heavy, particularly the super sonic fights, and the abundance of puzzles and mini-games seem to be there for novelty's sake. The tone of the story and the drastic change in the characters is a bit of an overcorrection but it is nice change of pace and I'm sure older Sonic fans will appreciate it.
I think Frontiers is a solid foundation. If it sells well, maybe SEGA will finally have faith in Sonic Team again to go all out on the sequels with the time and budget they need, taking in criticism and improving their ideas. I wouldn't put it past them to make a dramatic comeback, Chaos know's they've done it before.
I honestly don't get how someone can dislike the Super Sonic segments of this game in particular
Fighting the first super Sonic boss was some of the most fun I've had in a Sonic game in years
Its style over substance.
Really really cool style, but yea.
Exactly.
@@sonic5993 No way, there's substance in it too. It's just up to the player how much of that you experiment with. I think a lot of players probably end up relying on the button mashing and QTE's
@@AlphaOblivion7 the substance amounts to mashing the attack button and spaming your super attacks and holding the parry button when you're attacked.
Its 100% mindless.
@@sonic5993 not everyone is going to play like that...most ppl r bc its the easiest, but people with more skill with it will probably not just spam attacks and hold the party button...i sure didnt!
For all your in depth analyzing of games im surprised you don't really understand why there are minigames and alternate forms of gameplay on many games, you see i get where you are coming from, you are one of the few people that can truly do something fun until you drop even if its stressful and come back for more kudos to you, but most people sooner or later an hour in or so will start to experience burnout and drop the game for the session or maybe indefinitely because the fun of even most engaging gameplay loop ever just runs out for them BUT game developers found out that a little break, something silly like a simple puzzle, or a fishing/skating/lockpicking minigame, tricks the brain into working on a completely different set of tasks so that it has a breather from the main gameplay loop and once you go back you feel refreshed and relaxed with enough the energy to tackle the game for another hour, its a small silly thing but its very real, people put development time on those distractions for a reason.
Of course even in those there are good ones are bad ones, i for one like it more when the minigame is integrative with the rest of the game like the chao garden or when the game is fun enough as to feel like its own game like the card game in king knights campaign, if the fishing on sonic frontiers is mandatory then i can understand your frustation bur if its optional come on man, its just not there for you but dont knock the developers for doing something that they think will help the pace of their game.
Fair point. I've personally never enjoyed pace breaker type things in games. Just let me play the fun part of the game. But they do work for a lot of people. Still, I think it'd be better if the pace breakers were actually fun.
i mean the minigames in frontiers ARE optional...
@@Pariah6950 But like there are only what 5 mandatory mini games in the whole game.
And WARING SPOILER
2 of those are just easy version of the critically acclaimed shoot em up Ikaruga and 1 more is the Sonic stable in the pinball table
It's weird that this feels like one of the most easily recommendable Sonic games
With the other games, I always have to give people the caveats
Like, only play this version, remember that it's old or watch out for bugs, or cringe writing
This is the only Sonic game where I can tell someone to just play it and have fun (for the most part)
It's literally a gateway Sonic game now
The story of sonic frontier video. Is going to go so hard
Is it really? So far for it just been random talking for a few seconds with some reference sprinkled in, I'm curious about the lore yes, after seeing how the ancient looked like but this game has the same issue I had with BoTW, that it barely hasa story so far so idk why a lot of people are gushing about the story yet since I haven't finished the game
Oh I see what you meant now whoops, I agree lol. Can't wait for him to go into the issues with the direction of characters
@@Rex13013 I thank the Lore pretty cool and the characterization is fine
It's gonna weird because of how bad the Japanese translation is
Imma be honest I think he hates the story, especially the characters, but he hasn't outright said it yet so idk.
Iizuka empahsised that Frontiers is a highly customizable experience; if you don't like some parts of the game, you can just skip it via finding collectibles in the overworld or fishing.
Honestly I did fishing for the last island because I did jackpots and got 699 tokens and I used atleast 300 of them to get all keys and memories needed to progress to the finale. I just was so excited to see what the end was and I didn't really feel like doing another copy of the first island again. Plus fishing was very fun because of unique the fish you get are. It made me curious wondering what types I can get.
This just seems like them basically admitting that a lot of the game stinks by just saying you can avoid it
@@HNfilms Wrong. My point is that everyone has different preferences so you can do the stuff you like.
You might not like the combat but other people do. You might not like cyberspace but other people do. By doing the stuff you like the most, it's a win-win for everyone.
Is it a silver bullet to dismiss every criticism the game has? Obviously not, but you have the choice to play the game in the most enjoyable way possible in your subjective perspective.
@@kilometersperminute4113 Yeah I didn't like cyberspace that much and I didn't like having to get s ranks so I just fished to get the vault keys and I had more fun doing that. Its like with halo infinite. You don't have to do all the outposts or FOBs in the open world to beat the game if you don't want too.
I thought Cyberspace kinda sucked until I started time attacking 1-2. I managed to get that stage under 50 seconds and it really made me appreciate 2 new movement options in particular:
-The Forces air boost is one of the most fun movement options they've added, hell I'd put it on the level of the drop dash. Especially since you can cancel it into a double jump
-The new stomp jump (by holding down the stomp instead of just tapping it) is also a lot of fun to use! The Dragon Road inspired stage is so fun to chain those together with air boosts
YES! It's a shame they didn't show off techniques like that, but I loved the Dragon road stage because of the bounce+air boost combo
i would love the stomp jump if you could cancel out of it like the bounce bracelet but it locks you in the jump which is so unsatisfying to me
@@rikibdgd4764 But you can. You can have it just be a stomp or be an actual bounce, and the bounce can be reset by double jumping
Also the fact that jumps eat up your speed completely if it's not the air jump makes it really interesting to plan routes While keeping the speed
5:30 It has been 30 years of Sonic, but I'm pretty sure they've changed so much development staff during that time that it's back to square one of figuring out how Sonic should play. That's why Forces was such a step down from games like Generations and Unleashed, because the key people who worked on those games later moved on to work for other companies like Nintendo on things like Mario Odyssey or Breath of the Wild. For example Yoshihisa Hashimoto - the guy who was responsible for the Hedgehog Engine which was used in all the mainline Sonic games from Unleashed onwards - pretty much left the company after Unleashed's overwhelming negative reception to work on FFXIV A Realm Reborn.
Important note: Ian Flynn did NOT write the story, he did the English version of the dialogue and characterization. They intentionally did this for the different markets and they did tell us this. It was never intended to be like a translation of the Japanese.
The story itself was just an outline that was changed depending on the region. I'd say Ian worked with what he had.
I'm aware. Just didn't want to get too in detail. I'll talk about that in the future.
From what I heard isn't that entirely true.
It seems to be closer to what happened in Sonic Colors were there was a bare bones outline, than an English script and finally for the Japanese version a revised script loosely based on the English one.
Well, for me it's like this: Regardless of if the game is good or bad, I'm glad that this game *exists*
I'm glad that Ian took over the writing, and started fixing the characters somewhat, addressing past events, voice actors actually being given some voice direction.
I'm glad that this game introduces a bunch of new and old ideas to Sonic in terms of gameplay and story. Story especially.
So, even if the game sucks (which, I'm not saying it does, I like it) I'm happy that this game is here. It's a step in right direction. I'm excited for whatever comes after this
As someone who was _really_ skeptical about this game I gotta say...
*SONIC'S BACK BAYBEE*
I'll elaborate:
The controls are what they should've always been for 3D Sonic. The combat is basic but cool and flashy, and not too button mashy at all. The story and presentation is great, except the voice acting. All in all it's the best they've done since Unleashed imo. The minigames are fun honestly, the puzzles are really pointless but they're part of the environment and not just out of place (unlike the rails and bumpers) which is cool. They don't just give you S ranks for free which is also cool. They really got so many things right. I just wish the tricks were better and more useful.
Overall this game brought back the severely lacking _cool_ factor to Sonic, and it's a miracle. It's got a lot of issues but as someone who never liked the 3D boost games it's awesome to finally see them find their footing.
I know I wrote a whole ass review almost but I'm just so happy I was wrong about this game prior to release
reading the description i just realized that "Sonic Was Always Good" is SWAG for short... thats perfect
✨Swaaaaaag✨
This game gave me the same felling as playing 06, you just fall in love with the concepts of the game but everyday you just wish that the devs could have done a better execution
Hearing your thoughts on combat, that Unleashed video is gonna be very intresting.
I support the inclusion of a fishing minigame in any game possible
And here i thought you would like the way ian flynn writtes the characters.
Makes me wonder what Pariah's favorite writer of the series is. My guess is the guy who wrote Adventure, Sonic X, and Rush.
@@xraiderblack1850 Maekawa is pretty based
@@Laekith Oh yeah for sure. He's my personal favorite tbh. SA2, Heroes, and Black Knight's story are pretty cool. I just don't think he's Pariah's.
@@xraiderblack1850 i think he likes izuka and the guy who wrote the rush series
Same, I dont Think the Reviews on the Sonic comics is going to be pretty. Tho i am interisted to see a person who is not a fan of Flynn(s) writing. And i mean we all have opinions, I Will say This and i Will say it again Colors and Gens story is … Just okay. A lot of people hate these stories to all hell, But the first 2 are just fine, the real Bad began in Lost world in my opinion.
It's amazing hearing this English voice cast get to say actual DIALOGUE as these characters instead of just rattling off painful one-liners though.
Not gonna lie, the fact that you can customize Sonic's speed and movement is a massive reason for why I'm actually planning on getting this game now.
I'm enjoying this more than you did, but then for all we tend to agree on certain things we tend to disagree on the others, so I guess it makes sense. :)
I like the fishing! I don't care if it's easy, I find it legitimately relaxing and I found Sonic holding up weird fish to be oddly amusing.
I also like the usage of the boost set-pieces and puzzles in the open world. I know it's not deep, but I still get the buzz of filling the map in.
My only gripe is that the controls when in the mini-stages feels a bit off. I wish they'd let us alter them separately from the open world controls.
It's the lofi in the background that makes the fishing relaxing
@@trashboat5388 I also think the fishing is fun
this game was way more difficult for me since i never realized the parry was just a block that automatically parries until the third titan fight. i don’t know if the game ever explicitly said that or if i just saw the word parry in the tutorial and went “oh like dark souls got it” and ignored everything the pop up actually said
dude saaaaame
I was thinking "this is a baby game. How's the parry timing so hard?!"
They say it in the training simulator
@@M4Dbrat yeah, it's really obvious, but when you expect it to work one way and it kinda works, you just think that's how it is. Because you can parry ninja just fine with ''dark souls parry'', so then you don't pay attention to the pop-up about the parry
Same
I really have to wonder how common this problem actually is that people were expecting parrying to need timing and got screwed over because it doesn't
You can regain control in trick mode by jumping.
I know. You can see me do it in the footage. But it still sucks.
From what I've heard, Japanese players say the Japanese dialogue feels Google translated.
Wow I didn't expect you to cover Frontiers for awhile.
This was just his impressions, he's gonna expand on the hame for real when he gets to this game in his analysis series.
It's interesting how different our opinions are as I really enjoyed the open world, minigames, fishing and Ian's writing but did not enjoy cyberspace at all. no hate just interesting how two fans of the same thing can enjoy it in different ways
14:00 Honestly I have to disagree with you a lot with this one, fishing is quite fun and is funny to see all the weird stuff you can get in the water, but to me the best thing about it is that you can get collectables to help you in the story, is just another way to progress with the game.
In the last Island I needed 40 more tokens to get to the final boss but I didn't wanted to spend more 2 hours looking for them because I really wanted to see the end of the game that bad so I just got a couple of fish and got all the tokens from Big, the fishing minigame allows you to basically skip any content you may not like or want to do later and I like that, is just giving the player more options with how he want to progress with the game.
Plus without the fishing minigame you probably won't get many upgrades for Sonic stats, I beat the game and he was still level 20 on speed and ring capacity so yeah the fishing minigame helps you get more stuff faster to upgrade sonic and advance the story.
I honestly enjoyed the combat for the most part. It is simple but the visual style and sound design were cool enough to make it feel satisfying to me.
I just played it at a friends house and It controls almost as well as Sonic Adventure. Very nice, A step in the right direction for the series😊
That was interesting. Great video!
I'm still on the first Island atm. Im generally having fun which is all I really ask for I guess. I've found myself lost in the act of playing the game. Immersed, if you will. Ceazy concept. Which is not something i can say I felt for a while with the series.
I also really like the controls overall as well, though i have found his aerial turn arc when jumping felt kinda stiff.
I like the Ring system, but i worry it might be a bit of a problem going forward since i feel it punishes you for upping your ring capacity.
But i like that it gives you the speed increase when you max your ring count encouraging you to collect and hold onto em. Which as mentioned before has been historically an issue with the games.
I'm surprised at your take about the "open world" aspect vs the platforming, because that actually ia doing a good job of redeeming it for me, as if I hadn't made it clear I was always very skeptical of the idea of "Open World Sonic". The divvying up of the gameplay in this way allows for a lot of clear challenges which would otherwise just...not exist.
I'm pretty much of the exact opposite mind from you on that really.
I also disagree about the puzzles. I went in thinking I was gonna hate em but i found myself engaging with em and the combat more than the Cyber Space stages, which i found myself basically avoiding since I found them underwhelming compared to the style of that gameplay from the past, (which is like the opposite of what i was expecting) as I feel they better utilize the game's mechanics overall and feel like a more natural extension of the core gameplay. I also actually like how the simple combat system plays out generally, as I was worried it would be too overbearing and intricate to a point it felt too divorced from the core game. But instead again I feel it being more simple lets it be a lot more in-and-out.
Overall though I do think the game very much has "first ina new idea" syndrome going on but I don't think what they have here is bad. It's overall a decent foundation. That said, I also don't think i would want all this to just be what Sonic is forever going forward either. I probably need to play more though.
I'd really like to see your critique on Ian Flynn video sooner rather than later. As a fan of how he writes the characters, I want to see the opposing side more.
Me too, I only hear great things about him so it would be interesting to understand his critique's about his writing!
The only flaw I can think of in Ian's writing is it'a reference heavy? Even then, it's forgivable considering, well, the absolute lack of continuity in recent years from Sega
I agree but in This game it not that bad because As an exampel when Sonic goes to the first cyber space levels he Can say something in the Lines of “Wait Green Hill am i in South Island again?!?” Which world but other times, Flynn should just Calm down with the refences
Just so long as it's not that tired "Flynn is a wuss because Sonic doesn't pick up a gun and shoot Eggman dead" complaint I see far too often.
@@Sylocat wait that’s an actual complaint people make? Pfffffff
I think too many people are captivated by the novelty of the open world. Speedrunning Cyberspace is the best part of the game imo.
Ah I'm glad you made this video since it's still gonna take a while before you reach it in "Sonic was always good" so I'm happy to hear your thoughts. And leave it to you actually tell it how it is, this is the only review that comes extremely close to how I feel about the game.
I'm having fun, but I also have issues with it, is fun to run around but puzzles and enemies are meh, cyberspace levels are mostly fun (I still do really like the 2D ones tbh and the physics in some, but super easy to beat apparently, I enjoyed replaying 1-2 until I got S but every other level I get Ss like its nothing, and I wish they would make new levels instead of relying on old stuff, happy to see the adventure ones but still. Story is nonexistent for me yet and I don't get why lot of people is gushing about it and the character direction because they don't feel like the characters, like you said nothing has really happened to make them this way but everyone is sooo moody for no reason, even Sage like what? But hopefully it picks up soon
I know this isn’t a story video but I am seriously loving the story in this game. I love how they’re portraying the characters, it’s like Flynn actually knows how these characters are supposed to act and what their personality and character is truly like. The constant references to games in the past is a huge treat, I seriously flipped out when Eggman mentioned the black arms and the Babylonians in one of his memos
Same and SONIC SAID TANGLE WOULD LOVE OT HERE
Also that flashback card of tails watching the missle eggman launched over station square when sonic and tails were talking made me jump with joy
There Soo much references to older games and I'm all for it
Heck, after a decade of Pontac and Graff, I would have even accepted a game written by Penders.
@@Sylocat ummm......unless you want sonic to fuck every one of his female friends it's best we don't put him in charge
Trust me it's for the best
@@sethisevilone02 Oh, it would have been a disaster, no question. But after a decade of scripts that feel like they were written by geriatric marketing executives who have just had the concept of internet memes very poorly described to them, I'd take an unabashedly terrible script over one that's crippled by fear and blandness, y'know?
I appreciate them expanding on the lore of the Adventure games with Chaos lord of destruction
I know you mentioned that the English and Japanese scripts are radically different but I wasnt sure if you're aware of how quite a few people on Japanese Twitter are talking about the Japanese dialogue feeling very uncanny, as if they only animated the cutscenes with the English script in mind. Japanese folks are saying that the lines wont match the characters expressions. The Japanese script also spoils mysteries and explains things very early on in tje game compared to the English script.
Im being vague because I still havent even finished the game yet, but Im just repeating what Ive seen from a couple Japanese people I know.
An update because I found out more: the Japanese script did not have a designated localizer, the director Kishimoto did the translation himself and seems to have had some trouble with it. Some scenes feel very machine-translated, retaining English sentence structure.
Windii mentioned that the translation was pretty bad and she doesnt know how shes gonna handle subtitles for this one.
@@summerruby8436 Oh my Kishimoto messed translating Ian's script back into Japanese up so much it shocked Windii.
Seems like we reached a total inversion of the recent past where it was the Japanese script that has all the good writing that was removed from the dub.
I’ve actually really been enjoying this game so far. A real step up from the last. I always notice that Sonic looked to control pretty smoothly for the game in trailers, which is good because of the type of game this is, and playing the game, he controls REALLY well…for the most part. I have some problems with it like you do, physics and momentum can be off at times, and that can really screw you over in the cyberspace levels sometimes. I can control well in them, but like…it really doesn’t feel like they were made for boost type level design the modern games are known for. Probably a side effect of the controls being made for an open world.
Speaking of that open world, I was pretty engrossed with it so far. Personally I’m getting a real kick out of running around the entire map, going to a puzzle I haven’t finished to fill out the map, or a new mini challenge to try out. I agree that they could probably mix the Sonic level elements with the actual open world more, but I’m actually liking how it’s setup so far though. And if Sonic Team wants to make another game like frontiers, I really think they have a good foundation to build off of here.
The story’s really slow, but I’m also getting a kick out of it too. I’m of the opinion where most of the modern stories Sonic has are actually pretty alright (just shot all the credibility I had right there :p) but it’s REALLY nice to have a story that actually does something with pre-established lore again, that makes you lean into screen and goes “oh wait, that’s interesting”. And even references events you’d never think would get brought up again. The somber tone the game has is a little off putting though, but I don’t mind it either, even if I’d rather have something more upbeat. It’s a nice change of pace. I haven’t finished this game yet, but I think it’s pretty good so far.
(Sorry about how long this comment is, since everyone was sorta throwing their “first impressions” of the game in here, I wanted to throw in mine too. Also I’m pretty curious about what you think about Ian Flynn’s writing. Kinda interested in what you have to say there.)
I'd love to see an open world sonic game that looks like a traditional sonic game. I think the Yooka Laylee gimmick of an expanding world would be great, too. Along with some metroidvania esque shortcuts being unlocked once you complete a difficult platforming section, kind of like how the fast travel rails appear when you unlock a map segment in Frontiers but actually useful.
It could even be a great cost cutting measure for Sega since I know they do that already. Have it so you start off with a smallish island based on a single theme, and as you collect macguffins new chunks of island rise out of the sea. And eventually there are new islands that appear in the distance, but with entire boost levels along the path there that you have to traverse to get there, and once you get there, rails appear to give a shortcut back. Make them long enough so you can see the other islands at a low LOD in the distance, and the whole world looks cohesive.
Pretty much agree with everything you said, tho I do find the combat to be fine for one of those kiddy button mashers, I also am enjoying just running around a lot even tho the world is mostly just there, as for the time attack for the cyberspace levels I find it very very enjoyable.
Here’s a tip the trick system gives you xp for skill points. The best move damage wise would be the “Sonic Boom” and that spinning buzzsaw move early on and it sort of slows down the world around you giving more time launch another powerful move, then it becomes that move where Sonic rotates around the enemy slowly while throwing blasts from his hands, that move is nasty(none of the bosses lasted long). Then the parry requires the attack to hit you basically (it’s closer than you would think). Onto the puzzles for the first 2 islands, they were satisfying and didn’t take too long for all of them none of them took over a minute to figure out; Cyber-Space jump is literally the same as open zone it’s noticeable with the jump arc it rotates instead of Sonic moving in the direction of the control stick
I got all the moves
The cyberspace levels are trash for me but okay
There is already a fixed cyberspace controls mod (that also fixes issues like the Light Speed Dash causing you to lose momentum), though you need the Dev version of HedgeModManager, which you can change in its settings.
I’m looking forward to your story of Sonic Frontiers video
That's what I thought. Everything in the sky feels like it's from Sonic and the actual terrain itself feels like it comes from a completely different game altogether. It's honestly so bizarre. I assume that when Sonic Team decided the game won't be open world anymore they had to find some way of integrating Sonic elements into these islands and this was their rushed solution.
I want to see them do this "open-zone" style again. Especially if they now have a clearer vision again without being bogged with time or whatever, since y'know, the game changed course massively in development. They really should design the terrain and Sonic elements together next time. It's just so obvious thay the terrain was one of the first things they developed but whatever.
Also, on the final islands. There's some weird areas that just have nothing in them and places that lead to nowhere. It's odd
This was an intriguing and well made video. There were talking points I agree and disagree with, but overall I appreciate the new perspective towards the game.
Personally, I enjoyed the fishing mini-game. I know it’s a pace breaker, but sense it’s an optional gameplay mechanic, I’ve found it relaxing and extremely useful for making quick progress in repeat playthroughs.
With regards to combat, I found the mechanics to be engaging, but also not as fleshed out as I hoped. Similar to your experience with action games, I also enjoy Bayonetta and how nuanced the systems are. I do like that in SF, you can cancel most attack animations during combos, but also wish the speed of attacks were faster. In addition, the parry should of been a timing thing.
The idea of combining the Sonic-esque platforming with the open zone terrain would be a happy medium. I too love to utilize slope jumps and little moments of momentum to sequence break platforming challenges and reach places I technically should not be able to. I hope the next Sonic game stops magnetizing Sonic to the ground and will allow for more organic slope jumps on terrain similar to how it was handled on rails.
My main issue with CyberSpace is that Sonic’s physics for turning are so stiff. I immediate felt that in 1-1’s first wide turn. Once you start to adjust to Sonic’s controls in these levels, the double jump and air boost combos lead to fun speed runs especially if you can pull off homing dashes. I do feel that the homing attack should be just as fast on enemies as it is on balloons. I do find that weird. The impact of Sonic’s attack is cool, but it hinders the flow you create as you manuver around linear platforming challenges.
When it comes to gameplay variety, I do prefer my Sonic game to be composed of high speed action platforming so I can understand the frustration.
After beating the game 3 times, I can definitely say that I’m excited to see where the season pass takes us. After Sonic Forces, Sonic Frontiers is such a monumental step forward for the series future in games. I’m pretty satisfied gripes aside.
I haven't played it yet, might pick it up during the holidays. But so far, what's turning me off is that there's so many dash pads and pullies and rainbow rings and basically things that kinda just push Sonic forward for you in the open world and it would look a lot more fun if they designed it more so that you can reach the destination using Sonic's moveset yourself. Especially now that they apparently fixed Sonic's controls in 3D compared to the previous boost games. I'm sure you can still do this through unintended means but it just sucks that this wasn't the main design mentality when making an open world Sonic game. Still, it is a step in the right direction at least.
Completely agree. I'm often trying to avoid those things to do it with the physics. It's way more fun and should have been the focus.
I personally found a lot to enjoy in the open world, despite the simplicity of the elements within it. Though for me most of the fun, other than the combat, came from finding skips and unorthodox ways to gather collectibles. Story-wise, this is one of my favorites, largely because of the characters and their interactions with one another. It has many elements I liked in the Adventure stories, except most of the dialogue feels a lot more natural here. I also liked the additions to the lore. I'm really interested to hear your take on the story of Frontiers in the future, whenever that may be.
I'm still on the first island but I agree with your thoughts so far 12 mins into your video. This game is pretty fun, but I hope to see more sonic-y geometry built into the later islands, I understand why the flat ground is here, to maybe not overwhelm new players, but they should ramp up the difficulty for later islands with that kind of mix you you are describing. It would take the game from fun to stellar.
I also immediately remapped the controls to something more natural. Swapping the boost and the cyloop I think works really well for me
22:53 holy based. i can't wait to hear you dive into this in the future
Sonic Adventure 1 is direct comparison I made with this game. Feels very much like a successor to it.
***Mild Spoilers on the second world boss***
the fishing minigame is a subtle tutorial for the second bosses instant kill QTE.
3:21 I mean the drop dash has momentum as well as rails and when your doing tricks in the air
ykow i wanna see that ian video. im really curious to see what exactly you dont like about his writing cause ive never seen someone who dislikes his stories
I'm guessing it has something to do with how he writes dialogue
I guess he doesn't like how somber this game is.
I think it’s because we don’t actually see why the characters are so melancholic, they just tell us… and they constantly referencing old games, like every second cutscene there is a reference to an old game… come on. Some of the references don’t even make sense.
@@naniyotaka yea i kinda have to agree with u there the constant references are nice but some really do come out of nowhere.
I definitely am interested in how much I can try to push the movement and *maybe* the combat, but otherwise I'm so turned off by this game. My friends are still playing it and they've transitioned from "this game is just okay" to "I hate everything about this now".
Regarding the combat, have you maxed out your skill tree? You can do really cool combos once its maxed out i love the combat. I do love this game in genreal. Hopping from one platforming challenge to the next is the best part. Espcially the longer gauntlet ones. I too love trying to go from challenge to challenge not as inetended lol. Also you dont have to do the parts you find unfun. There are so many ways to get the collectibles you need. You never have to do combat outside the major Titan battles if you dont want. I love all the activities in this game so its no issue for me but you can def play your way
Yo the JP script is actually super messed up this time it turns out.
And interestingly, it was made after the English version
13:47 while I have a lot of disagreements in this video, one thing I want to point out is the fishing
Saying “it does nothing” is probably the biggest lie about this video
It’s simple so it doesn’t want your time your drag for too long, but also the medals that you get are a lifesaving if you need more memory tokens, gears, keys, skill points, this fishing mini game gives you the option to essentially play how you want to play in terms of collecting
In reality, the game would of been worse if it didn’t have the fishing
That's not what I mean. I mean the actual act of doing the fishing. The gameplay of it. You can still get the benefits of it by just having a shop that uses the purple coins, but with no fishing. Then it's even better because it doesn't waste your time with a pointless minigame that barely even has any gameplay.
@@Pariah6950 but then that’s just extremely boring and lazy
Plus as I said, it is optional and it takes about as long as you want it to
It’s not even a super slow mini game either so the complaint here is kinda non existent
@@Grim-Owl It's already extremely boring. The gameplay is just a few extremely easy timed button presses. How is that fun? That is my issue. The gameplay is so nothing that there's not anything to actually get out of playing it, inherently. The rewards are the only reason to do it. So not having it would be the same as having it, but without the time needed to play a non-game.
Alternatively, if there was at least a real fishing minigame here, that could actually be fun to play. That would be better too.
@@Pariah6950 it honestly just sounds like you get bored super easily
@@Grim-Owl I do. I said as much in the video. I found God of War 4 boring. Gameplay needs to have real substance to hold my attention.
It's not like I dislike the fishing in particular. I criticized the combat and puzzles in the exact same way.
From playing the game I felt that the developers kinda encourage that emergent gameplay of stringing together platforming challenges and skipping half of them? Most of them are either packed together or can be linked through the travel rails and boost rings.
It's all at a very casual level though, but that ties into the customizable experience thing they advertised. (which I kinda feel is codename for "we're not confident people will like this, throw everything and the kitchen sink at it"? At least it's fun)
I wonder, how you would judge the combat of Spark the Electric Jester 3 with your standards.
Spark looks nevously-
Haven't played it yet. But Spark 2's combat was terrible. So I hope it's improved.
@@Pariah6950 Spark 3's combat is a massive improvement.
8:21 that’s mainly because the platforming stuff was added later in development due to play testers wanting more platforming in the open world
While I haven't read the IDW comics and thus not know the general faults behind it (though I have some ideas such as Shadow's character, though even then I'm not sure if it's entirely Ian's fault or if Sega mandates played a part in it), I'll say that after 3 consecutive games where the characters were reduced to simple traits and the story faltered in execution, I feel like this game focused more on giving the characters more complexity than anything else. Based on the game's footage and what you said of the characters in your past Sonic videos, I can actually see the Sonic cast from the past games in Frontiers acting that way in some manner, instead of in say Forces where they felt very off. To me at least, they held a stronger presence here than in the past 3 Sonic games, despite ironically enough only appearing a set number of times.
I think that's the main problem with the game's writing, that it focused more on giving the cast actual personalities instead of one-note traits (Amy isn't mindlessly obsessing over Sonic and can stand on her own, Knuckles had an actual reason for ending up here as well as a friendly rivalry with Sonic, Tails... everything), that in the process it didn't leave a lot of room for the actual story. Oh, they did delve into the story, and I argue that the game in fact left enough bread crumbs to get a general outline of what had happened in the past, but it does feel like we needed more time to actually flesh the story out. There was also the references to past Sonic games, but once again, it just felt more like a gradual retreading of Sonic's past, especially after Sonic Forces attempted to do the whole "Sonic legacy" thing but failed spectacularly in its execution of it.
So yeah, you probably have other reasons for not liking the writing, but to me Flynn wrote these characters to actually act in ways other than a specific one-off joke, and in Tails's case connected it to the main games, which is why I am fine with it for the moment. Of course, things could change in the future, and maybe the next mainline game that Ian writes for may end up mishandling the Sonic cast. But for now, I am okay with the writing that we got here.
Have you ever try Solar Ash? Is basically this game a year before. And maybe better
I've been meaning to play it. Looks super cool.
How would you design a trick system for Sonic? Personally, I wish it was like Spider-Man Miles Morales.
The thing that feels the weirdest about the story to me is that the references to Sonic Adventure and other past series games are juxtaposed with how the characters are portrayed in those games compared to this one.
At first Sonic getting reminded about the Mystic Ruins is fun and cute and all, but then you go back to Sonic Adventure and he’s like “Aw yeah! This is happenin’!” or some shit like “Great! I’m feeling good!” and it’s hard for you to really convince me that the Sonic in Sonic Frontiers is the same one that SAW the Mystic Ruins or SAW Tikal and her visions or SAW Perfect Chaos transform, and would totally react to those things now the same way he did back then.
And it’s hard for me to believe that these characters “grew” when there has been zero gradual progression between these characters and just feels like a completely different portrayal entirely.
Like, people are saying that they love the references AND the way the characters are written when, in my mind, these are the things that are exactly at odds with one another for me.
And I'm trying to at least appreciate the story but as far as I'm concerned I can't even really tell what the story IS so far, or what message this is all really supposed to impart onto me. I'm like a quarter through the second island and I can, like, tell you what I saw and the things that happened but it doesn't feel like it's building up to anything. That's probably due to the odd presentation of the cutscenes though.
I WILL say that I like the dynamic between Sage and Eggman, or at least what's there. All that stuff is very interesting to me.
It's less that the characters "grew" and more that what is considered their "character" changes with the generation, which is intentional. Sonic's character in SA1 was based around the energy of the 90's, while his characterization now is definitely based on the current era
@@typreegamingtpg2198
I say Amy did develop between games her role and the way other characters treat her clearly changed between SA1 over SA2 and Heroes to 06. So, her change I'm fine with.
I really don't want to spoil Tails and Knuckles but in short, I think Knuckles is fine and Tails has to reconcile how OoC he was the last decade over.
I still have one overarching issue that I to not spoil won't name, however.
For Sonic I get you Sonic never really developed between games. The problem in general is that hardly an one wants to actually write Sonic as hyper energetic like he used to. Even if this game is still far closer to the Sonic of old than what we had since Colors otherwise.
Eggman is a bit weird too, but we don't get too much on him.
And the story takes a while to get going as the first half of the game is mostly mysteries teasing big reveals latter.
I do have quite a few issues with the story, but it will eventually get going.
Not sure if you'll see this Pariah, but as far as the puzzles go, there was one type of "puzzle" I really enjoyed. The ones with rings, or the platforming courses with the goal at the end. Those felt like they belonged in a sonic game, and I feel like if they replace all of them with these, they'd be way better.
I'd really like to see that video of Flynn's writing of Sonic as I also feel like the character writing is very strange in this game.
I know this video is 5 months old, but seeing this video and listening to your complaints makes me wonder how you reacted to Chaos Island, which is pretty much the encapsulation of all the issues you pointed here + over abundance of 2D segments.
I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on Ian Flynn's writing.
Yea the longer platforming sequences in the hub world are really fun I my opinion and for me I terms of the combat I like it solely for the cyloop you make a shape around the enemy and it stuns it. This adds a layer to the combat that hasn't been in any sonic game before and it just feel perfect for sonic. I feel like sonic in the cartoons or the cutscenes. I like the variety the enemies add to hub so I dig it. I could like it because the most in depth combat system in any video game I've played is like spiderman web of shadows. That games combat is better than this don't get it twisted.
(God my paragraphs of text are so sloppily written, I feel like im just spewing information with no grammar. So sorry for that)
The lighting in this game and overall animation looks unfinished.
When I played the Super Sonic fights, I thought for sure you would have liked them since they're pretty much the same as normal combat with extra flash but a trade off in a slightly janky elevation system.
One thing i like about this game i can get collectables at the end of a section or i can get sonic at a middle section.
Im honestly surprised magnet dashing is in the game frankly. Kinda didnt expect to see that mechanic outside of the spark series, but its welcome. Has a lot of exploitability in frontiers just as it does in spark.
Air dash, homing attack and double jump are on separate buttons? Combat? Magnet dashing? Story about virtual reality and artificial intelligence that goes places? Drum and bass? Frontiers is straight up a Spark clone :p
Will you do every sonic game? Story and swag videos
I Wonder if you already heard about the Japanese script being not 100 percent accurate (I know you prefer the jp cast over the English so I was just curious)
This has made me a bit more curious to check out the game, mostly from what you described about the writing. I can't be certain how the style is until I see for myself, but knowing Ian Flynne wrote the script and hearing that it's oddly gloomy for Sonic is, well, odd.
Perhaps it's an aspect of his style that I haven't noticed, but in the comic, characters are often upbeat and a bit snarky, quipping back and forth and bouncing off one another. It *can* get melodramatic *sometimes*, but it's still upbeat for the most part. Perhaps it's just the tone that the game is trying to go for. Flynne was probanly instructed to take it in a more serious direction. I can see it as a reaction to the years of very silly, fourth wall breaking style Sonic has had for a long time.
honestly as someone who beat the game i’m not really sure what he’s talking about. there are dreary and melodramatic moments in the game, but they always feel appropriate given the context of whatever is happening, and the voice actors in the english dub make the characters all sound a little older and more serious, which makes sense as the story has a lot to do with the main 4 being experienced adventurers and becoming more independent from one another. the second island in particular just has a lot of sonic and knuckles playing off each other as friendly rivals, aside from one or two moments the two never really get downtrodden or gloomy. also a lot of the cutscenes are just sonic and whoever’s on the respective island just seeing some ruins and going “what’s that about” then maybe proposing a theory or something.
i have a lot of problems with the story, mainly its pacing since the main plot doesn’t develop much at all past the first island until the last island, where the “mysteries” are revealed but it just doesn’t feel significant.
really curious to hear his full thoughts whenever he gets to covering the game’s story
Will you review Sonic Prime.
Hmm.... That was an interesting video not gonna lie. Now before I say anything sadly I haven't got the game because prizing in my country for games sucks. But I really wanted this game(And I really do)
But at least I can say from the things I saw and this video I understand your point of view of the games and in someways I share them though with lesser extend.
At least from what I see what you like in any video game is that you want a gameplay that can be explored in different ways or looked into in complex ways while game fully created around that. Which yeah I can see that it makes frontiers lesser in your eyes.
Objectively I think it's a good complaint for Puzzles. I do think that with the things you mention and the things I saw with other reviews puzzles create the biggest flaw in the game. It wastes Sonic's moveset. A puzzle that doesn't use the gameplay itself is basically pointless.(Tho fishing is imo a fun thing to add especially because of Big And from what I know you don't even have to do it so it's just for people who want something funny but also in someways relaxing)
But combat I'm not so sure. Now again I'm basing this off fully with what I saw. But I think what you want with the combat and what game wants combat to be clashes. Because in this one it's basically you want more options and reason to use this options while game wants you to beat enemies fast and all the moves are here to make this look flashy. Because other than basic enemies(which has a more flashy defeat because of the combat) mini bosses and from what I'm guessing bosses try to combine this platforming movement with that basic combat to make the fights exciting. Now does it work. I think it depends on person. If I was able to play this I think I would enjoy a lot simply with try to defeat enemies as fast as possible. Less focusing on how can I use all my options like DMC5.
So I dunno with the thing I saw it just looks like an exteremly better version of what they tried to do in Heroes, Shadow and 06. And I kinda wanna play it simply for that.
For story only think I can say it I like Ian's writing on characters so I think I will love the story.
So at least from what I think simply the mindset you have for video games and this game clash. Some definitely in a bad way for the game while some is more personal liking for certian things.
Funny enough I think this happens a lot with you and Sonic games. The video's about you trying to understand what the hell is up with the scoring system with classic games is basically sums it up in a way.
Basically you are thinking way more than developers did with certian systems.
Tbh i didn’t expect cyberspace to be your favorite part of the game. I really didn’t like it at first but it’s growing on me. I think it controls really bad but it’s kinda saved by using old level designs, and the new ones are pretty good too. Kinda keeps it from being a “hallway where you occasionally jump or slide” game, like forces or a lot of the 3d sections in colors.
I also completely get where you’re coming from for most of this, but i love the open zone. sure, the terrain could be more interesting in some places but i have so much fun mixing parts of the the open world and the platforming sections to try and reach stuff faster or get to places i’m maybe not supposed to be. super sa1 vibes for me.
And i get what you mean about the combat and super sonic sections, but 100%ing every dmc game kinda put the idea in my head that you haven’t really beat an enemy unless you styled on them lol. and i think there’s a lot of cool ways to fuck with the enemies in this game, especially the bosses and titans. Yeah, you really can just trivialize the game by spamming the really strong and safe attacks and parrying whenever they wind up but i found it to be more fun than that. It definitely could’ve used more depth though, but i just found it really fun, and it makes me excited for how a sequel could make things a little more depthful.
Can’t really dispute anything you said for the story though, but i just really liked the character interactions lol. i loved sonic being a supportive friend to everybody
BUT… then again i started timing my parrys rather than holding them, so maybe that’s why i found the combat fun lol
So should I buy it or not
i still havent played it, i will start tomorow , cant wait for the story video thou , just comenting cause you said you were gona talk about the prologues and today on sonic oficial s6 ep12 at 17:25 they talked about a preprologue or something like that, i did not realy get it . also the last tails vtuber video has continuity whith the game. (these things are kinda out of the scope for a a sonic frontiers story video but just wanted to drop this here. hope everyone is having a blast and sry for my bad writing skills
First time you comment on Flynn. The story video shall be interesting - I trust you much more than a lot of wackos on the community.
Hopefully this game is the start of them trying to slowly phase out Boost gameplay over the next few games and not totally returning to, but trying to build on Adventure gameplay.
well, it seems like it's at least a step up from lost world to forces. I havent bought a sonic team game since generations
It's strange seeing just how divisive this game is, most people love the hell out of it, but others just really can't stand it. Reminds me of how Evangelion 3.0+1.0 absolutely split the western fans down the middle, I adore the hell out of it but a lot of western fans HATE it.
I LOVE the feeling of the world movement, the air boost>bounce>air boost combo you can do indefinitely makes the platforming in Cyber Space so much fun. Speedruns that don't just exploit Big's fishing are going to be absolutely fuckin nuts. The one major missed opportunity is the Super Sonic fights, they're so FUCKING COOL, but God the camera and controls are just kinda jank and confusing, I'm really glad I leveled up by attack and unlocked a good few combat skills before taking on Giganto, because it's entirely possible I could have died... and dying in the current 1.1 PC version of the game has the potential to TANK the frame rate. Woo modern video games. This is the first main line Sonic game I've bought on launch day and I kinda regret it a tiny bit, man fuck "we can patch it later", I really miss when games were actually finished when they released.
I'm really looking forward to doing a level 1 playthrough in the future where I don't upgrade any of my stats, I'd definitely be unlocking skills so the combat could be fun since it would take so long to take out later enemies, but otherwise it seems like it'd be a fun challenge, never had the balls to do it in a Kingdom Hearts or Breath of the Wild but I'm confident in my 3D Sonic skill, and the music being awesome definitely doesn't hurt when those battles are going to drag later on.
It feels very weird having a Sonic game with an actual story again after 11 years of borderline excuse plots and then Forces' hilarious trainwreck of a story. It's a good weird though. And that weirdness is doubled by just how dark this story can be at points, my jaw DROPPED seeing the mother and child Koco scene on Kronos. I assume being trapped between reality and Cyber Space is what's causing Amy, Knuckles, and Tails to be acting so strange, Amy describes it as flying around in a dream, so it makes sense she'd feel melancholy and detached. Personally, since I'm the type to go out of my way to make sure I have the intended experience by the original author, I'm playing with the English audio, and it's, again, strange. Amy puts so much emotion into her delivery, especially later on in the second half of Kronos where she's empathizing with this lost Koco and trying to help find their love "before it's too late" and, it's a weird ass tone for a Sonic story to actually EXPLORE the ideas Black Knight touched on, but it's done so well in it's presentation.
Also I still have no idea how the infinite boost works
I think you get infinite boost if you die too many times? I noticed it popped up when I died a couple times to some of the bosses
@@train4292 I figured it out! It happens if you draw an infinity symbol with the cyloop. It's clearly supposed to be a secret mechanic but it's really easy to activate it on accident.
@@aortaplatinum Oh? That’s pretty clever :p
I think I only did that like..twice though?
@@train4292 It's really handy if you remember to do it just before a miniboss that benefits from boosting like the Squid or Striders. I think it resets back to normal boost when you go to take on a major Titan boss though, but I haven't tested it.
Yeah, ummm...Windii's channel is gone. All that's left are re-uploads.
That doesn't mean Windii is gone. She might just not upload it to UA-cam.
@@Pariah6950 Good point; I forgot the other social media websites. She’ll probably post it on Twitter or something
S'alright innit
My guy, I've never disagreed with you more in a video, but you make some fair points, everything you didnt like that I did, like the minigames and combat, I realize I can just chalk it up to my ADD/ADHD going "ooh look at that thing!"
I bought the game because fishing is in it. Can't relate.
Thanks for giving your thoughts though. I definitely agree about the combat. I played Bayonetta for the first time before playing frontiers, and the control in forces definitely lacks all of the depth and creativity of that game, while also feeling less intuitive to use.
I don't think the puzzles/minigames and combat are very well done either, but the game could get pretty monotonous without them. Like a 20 hour long fangame demo. Though I definitely agree that it should've been more focused on using physics on Sonic-esque terrain. Maybe even dropping the boost in favor of a spin dash and Advance boost mode. The spin dash could even chain into melee attacks and be how you do the cyloop.
Interested to see what it is you don't like about Flynn's writing. I always saw it as an improved version of the general 2010s Sonic writing, but there's still a certain "meta era stank" there that I can't pinpoint. (Frontiers has less of it, to be fair.)
14:05 jesus christ those are some terrible screen-space reflections. feels like you're tripping on LSD when the background just keeps randomly changing...
It's a shame, Sonic Forces also has the most terrible SSR imaginable too
i’m surprised u hated the combat so much. i like it , it reminds me of like 06 or heroes
Heroes? Well, "reminds" is a good word to use here. Reminds me of how much more thought out it was, even with all the certified Heroes jank. Enemies could be taken out in many different ways, all player attacks were very distinct in their function and generally hit more than one enemy, each encounter was like an actual combat puzzle... Well, to a degree to which a kids game with collision damage allowed it. To think that was their first attempt at a combat system in a Sonic game and they came with something so unique and weird
06? Now that sounds about right.
@@M4Dbrat i like heroes but i think ur overstating how good the combat was lol. just think of homing attack spamming the boss battles lol, they were not designed as thoughtfully as these frontiers mini bosses
@@M4Dbratheroes combat is bland
Honestly, I saw the disappointment coming. Imagine if this game DIDN'T get delayed! We could have gotten another 06 situation lol
Also really agree with you in regards to the story. When I heard they were doing a more serious story I was interested, but from what I've seem it really seems like they're trying TOO hard with the drama.
Also, unrelated to Sonic: have you ever played Fight Knight? If you didn't, I highly recommend it. Really good combat and with equally as good puzzles and dungeon crawling. Some slight balancing problems here and there but doesn't detract from the experience. I think it would certainly be a breath of fresh air after Frontiers's lackluster combat. Would love to see you talk about it.
I second this unrelated recommendation. Fight Knight is an absolute joy of a title, unique in it's gameplay and visual style
Eh honestly the story in this game was actually really cool with quite a bit of bombshells revealed in it, I thought it was a great way to make the characters shine again
This game is gonna be cool to mess around in. I'm probably gonna do it with other sonic music in the background though, I'm not a big fan of this game's musical direction compared to other games. I'm also not a big fan of the art direction, but that's probably because I prefer a more cartoon look to sonic like Colors. Realism is cool but not really as interesting imo.
It's goated
If I'm being honest I think the combat is somewhat interesting on hard mode but to each their own.
tbh the sheer existence of the puzzles scattered across the map make me laugh. In the classics at least, traversal of the environment was itself a kind of puzzle in the sense that the point isn't just go get from point A to point B, but it's the figure out how to do so in the most efficient manner possible, which creates a situation of you having to figure out the best way to engage with the environment. Sonic's movement mechanics themselves facilitated the pseudo-puzzle that was the act of platforming in those games, and as you say, Frontiers misses a lot of that potential despite having mechanics in place to allow for something akin to how the Adventure games had that to an admittedly lesser extent. But instead, they have literal puzzles, that, instead of really doing much to incorporate the movement mechanics at all, they almost completely segment themselves off from that engagement entirely.
It's pretty bizarre that Sonic Team seemingly keep creating problems for themselves despite already having the tools to not even have to bother with them in the first place.
Cannot agree with the points about the minigames and fishing those are actually pretty fun imo
Wowza
The airborne platforming could be perfect for tails. The combat could work for knuckles if the enemies are stronger and fight similar to the ones in dragon ball. The minigames could be great for amy if they're more mystic/magic focus gimmick.
Also why does pariah hate Ian Flynn's writing? Is it because ian tries to connect every sonic media together which doesn't work like he says, or is it because ian doubts sonic and other things' capabilities like scaling to goku and all other cool things that's supposed to be endless possibilities and what not?
Sonic had a rough transition into open worlds
So the game was exactly the way it looked from the second footage started coming out, which you would get relentlessly attacked for saying as recently as yesterday
Cyberspace is very underrated.
If you want an amazing combat system I still HIGHLY recommend Doom Eternal. I really think it would be up your alley