I take a gasket punch, same diameter as the base pin, and punch out circles from aluminum roof flashing, and if i need a thinner circle spacer, i use soda pop cans, the pop can color tells me they are the thinner circles, and the plain ones are the thicker roof flashing, then i drop them in until i get the correct spacing. I keep a percussion cap tin filled with the aluminum spacers.
Great advice and useful tips as always, Blackie. Pietta revolvers don't seem as problematic regarding arbor fit. Generally perfect length and snug up firmly, every time. But, for those rare exceptions, easy hacks like this do come in handy. When you finally get around to fixing that loose arbor, would like to see a video on how you approach that, too. Always like to learn something new.
Being a tool maker myself, I would like my threads to be cut with a broken in tap rather than a new one, just for a tighter fit. As for putting something in the cylinder pin hole I use a thin washer
Some good ideas. Tooling wear is quite common. That is why after market body panels rarely fit well. They dies are either made off an old part or in some cases the original dies are used but by the time they are sold to an after market company they are old and worn. I believe the aluminum valve covers for the Corvette back in 1966 have a mold crack that GM used past it's wear date. In the case of Uberti the longer you make the tooling last the more you can keep your costs down. Actually the fiddling you do with your pistols makes you more comfortable to keep them going on your own in an emergency.
A tap creates the female threats. A DIE creates the female threads. But in the case of the arbor, I'm pretty sure, the threads would be cut without a die. They simply would have been cut using the lathe.
Causing metal to expand while hammering on it is called “raising” and is done continually by silversmiths and is done with (in the silversmith’s case) with a raising hammer, although again in the silversmith’s case that hammer has a mirror finish on the business surface of the hammer to reduce the need for additional polishing post-raising. Thanks for this video Blackie, very well presented and demonstrated! Tom KC3QAC
WOW just picked up a new in box Uberti 1860 and she needed two Days gun smithing to date on just Working safe and reliable. Mine is a bit hard to take apart or put in place, I think it is just about a perfect seal or vacuum on the cylinder pin and arbor hole? I may" scribe a vent path on post arbor Axis? Maybe a grease/oil grove too? When she hits bottom out of timeing with rotation to correct O'clock she is just about perfect in depth relation to each part not lined with guide pins home position. I LOVE Tweeking on this stuff! WOW She Points to target like a home sick magnet, fast on the Cock, light on the cocking wrist flick! WHY did I wait SO LONG to pick up an 1860???? Now I think a .36 is in my future. Thanks for Your INFO!! JB WELD Is MY FRIEND too! Always on my work benches and tool boxes! Do YOU ever case harden your Well Fitting wedge? or Why Not?
I imagine that when made in the 1860s they made the parts oversized and hand fitted them with files. Maybe robots will be good enough one day to replicate that.
Gotta try the flat washer trick. I always stone the wedge and slot to remove the burrs and fit the inside of the slot and barrel joint on the far side.
Performed these EXACT procedures on my NEW acquisitions last evening; just general overall fit-testing BEFORE shooting my new BP revolver. Needed a "quick" video on basic assembly by Kid Nevada here on UA-cam...a short and concise almost 4 minute video that I found VERY helpful. After completion of the initial fit-testing, Blackie, the action is now buttery smooth and the cylinder gap is $20.00 bill approved! You have been absolutely wonderful in explaining the world of BP revolvers. (Sub'd) QUESTION: My revolver's "hand" was hand-tooled from the factory where it comes into close contact with the arbor. The hand-tooling was NOT smooth but chattered. Should the "hand" be smoothed out in that area and then lubricated with any kind of oil or anti-seize compound inside the "hand track"? where it is pinned to the hammer??? Thank You in advance. (NOTE: PLEASE feel free to delete this post IF you feel my referenced assembly video not appropriate for your channel, Kind Sir).
I have center punched all around the end of the arbor where it is flush with the frame in front of the hammer and tightened the loose arbor up. Make sure the barrel is on so the front two locating pins stll line up. This is a seat of the pants engineer type fix but it seems to work. I like the washer idea.
Good trick Blackie , I have an older model 1860 Army made in Italy 🇮🇹 , I think it was made in the 70's or 80's and have never had an issue with the Arbor getting loose. If that ever happens how about unscrewing the arbor from the frame and wrapping some Teflon tape on the arbor threads then screwing it back into the frame. The Teflon tape would compensate for the small threads , wouldn't it ?
The lock washer is a great tip! I had to make/add a shim (with two pinholes drilled) to the bottom of the frame for my *old Pietta after sooo many rounds. Yeah, it’ll have to be replaced eventually, but it may be totally unnecessary with a lock washer. -- However, with caps being so hard to find these days, that may be *years later!
@@BLACKIETHOMASThink I’ll try your peining trick- on the frame and axis pin (tho I’d bet you’d spell it “peening”!). Dunno if I’ll have a hammer that’s *hard enough- or small enough.
Never had that problem with my Ruger Old Army! 😄 bye the bye, that bad boy fits your "Dragoon" description taking 40 gr. Of fffg under a .457 round ball. Never had the opportunity to try conical bullets in it, just ball. Works well at long range, too!
I wouldn’t wonder if the original colts was of much higher quality! First they were expensive, second it really mattered. We could make em even better today, but that would be costly.
im worried about this in my uberti open top because it is a cartridge gun, someone who does services on these guns told me this also causes the guns to shoot themselves apart and damage the gun. If I set the wedge in too far I can't even cock the gun. If I have it just right it operates find.
Blackie, Great Video and Outstanding Information on the percussion pistol tips and tricks . You have taught me a lot on this subject. Thank you for sharing your Time and knowledge and wisdom and passing on the craft , and all your hard work. You Are The Master Woodsman and Bushcrafter. Thanks Again. Tim L.
Blackie : I bought a spare parts kit from Cabelas and it contained a spare Wedge but I would prefer not to have to buy the whole kit just for the wedge. Do you know if a Uberti wedge will fit my Pietta 1860? At the time Dixie Gun Works was way back ordered (Jan. 2020) and I want to keep a couple of spares as I already lost one where I went shooting. Have you ever had the 2 little alignment Pins in the Frame that fit into the barrel come loose? I was able to put mine back in with J B Weld but Super Glue or Red Locktite would probably work just as well. I really like the Revolver series.
Ye aulde "stackup of tolerances" condition. Dont recall seeing "Tuco" seperately cheching that condition on the glass case-top, but just picking it up would manifest the condition...
Hi Blackie, recently had the arbor come loose on my Walker. I’ve wicked some loctite 290 in the threads and pin and it seems to have tightened it back up, but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet.
My uberti 62 pocket police new in box came with a loose Arbor instead of sending it back to Cimarron I just did this job myself remove the arbor ping the thread slightly use green Loctite and reinstalled it also I use washers for the short Harbor I like to smash them with a press rather than pinging them with a hammer a hammer will make one side flattered in the other causing the barrel to shift left or right as always love your videos Blackie thanks
Mr black where the most affordable place to buy a pietta snubnose 1860 .44 black powder pistol I'm on social security and va benafits I want to get one as a carry gun I'm 76yo thanks
"Die" is the term for the arbor thread cutter...I also agree with @sean dey below, regarding lathe cut threads. I'm more concerned about the tap you mentioned cutting the pocket thread on the receiver. That said, my base pin on the Traditions 51 navy, looks like a child laborer from Wuhan machined it.
Ok.. I see a lot of vids on accuracy improvements for revolvers. some are extremely minor and well... anal.. Been shooting revolvers for half a century almost exclusively with cast slugs (now cast and coated) What is the main cause of accuracy problems? It is the size relationship between chambers and barrel bores. for lead slugs the chambers should be the same or a couple thou bigger than the bore. That is why they make molds a thou or two bigger or smaller than factory specs. For percussion guns the chamber is actually your sizing die that is why you see that ring of lead removed as the bullet is seated. Accuracy goes south when the chambers are smaller than the bore of the barrel. Imagine shooting a 36 caliber ball out of a 44 barrel say. 3 Colt clones and 7 cylinders and only two cylinders were correct for the bore. I know this because I slugged the bore (easy to do using cheap electronic calipers... The chambers I measure with Plug gauges... but... you don't even need to. slug the bore... lets say it comes out .452 Buy a hole reamer ... A hand one not for lathes... I would buy a .453 in this case. if the reamer goes into the chamber that is good enough. If not? ream the hole Now you have .453 balls shooting from a .452 bore. The rifling is able to grip the ball as intended. Anyone can do this and a 'good' reamer is maybe 15-30 bucks. Cut the groups in half on a 51 Navy I have. On my buddies Remington I just let him use the reamer. remember.. the balls are .455 so a .453 chamber will still size the balls... of his two cylinders both were undersized in all but 3 chambers. he reamed both cylinders in maybe 1/2 hour? Accuracy improvements were pretty dramatic. I measure everything but in his case we didn't measure anything. We know the balls are .455 so to get a tight fit we knew we could not go any bigger than the .453 reamer. So basically he fixed accuracy for a $25 reamer which he can use on any cylinder he buys in the future. I am sure that you could explain this stuff much better than I did. I just never see anyone talk about this even tho handloaders have been doing it for more than 100 years. In cartridge guns Colt changed the 45 Colt from .454 bore to .452 People noticed a drop in accuracy shooting the more modern .452 ammo in the older barrels that could be .455 or so. Not as big a deal in jacketed bullets since the jacket will grip the rifling even if it is a couple thou short of actual bore size. Soooo if you notice that one cylinder or... one or more chambers in a cyl shoot better than the others? LOL... that is the problem and the solution is cheap and easy
I take a gasket punch, same diameter as the base pin, and punch out circles from aluminum roof flashing, and if i need a thinner circle spacer, i use soda pop cans, the pop can color tells me they are the thinner circles, and the plain ones are the thicker roof flashing, then i drop them in until i get the correct spacing.
I keep a percussion cap tin filled with the aluminum spacers.
Great advice and useful tips as always, Blackie. Pietta revolvers don't seem as problematic regarding arbor fit. Generally perfect length and snug up firmly, every time. But, for those rare exceptions, easy hacks like this do come in handy. When you finally get around to fixing that loose arbor, would like to see a video on how you approach that, too. Always like to learn something new.
Being a tool maker myself, I would like my threads to be cut with a broken in tap rather than a new one, just for a tighter fit. As for putting something in the cylinder pin hole I use a thin washer
I'm building one of those as a kit, and noticed the potential for that very issue down the road. I like the lock washer idea 👍🙏🐺
Thank you. I lean something new and and useful each time.
Damn Your Good - THANKS!
😎👍
Arbor cut on a lathe is typically single point threaded, not done with a die, especially as part of an assembly line.
I lock-tight my washer in and it's works perfect.
Some good ideas. Tooling wear is quite common. That is why after market body panels rarely fit well. They dies are either made off an old part or in some cases the original dies are used but by the time they are sold to an after market company they are old and worn. I believe the aluminum valve covers for the Corvette back in 1966 have a mold crack that GM used past it's wear date. In the case of Uberti the longer you make the tooling last the more you can keep your costs down. Actually the fiddling you do with your pistols makes you more comfortable to keep them going on your own in an emergency.
A tap creates the female threats. A DIE creates the female threads.
But in the case of the arbor, I'm pretty sure, the threads would be cut without a die. They simply would have been cut using the lathe.
Two 5mm flat washers work too I've used both types of washers.
🏆
I watched a video about break open shotguns that get loose by Larry Potterfield. He used shimstock "glued" to the worn surfaces with loctite.
Causing metal to expand while hammering on it is called “raising” and is done continually by silversmiths and is done with (in the silversmith’s case) with a raising hammer, although again in the silversmith’s case that hammer has a mirror finish on the business surface of the hammer to reduce the need for additional polishing post-raising. Thanks for this video Blackie, very well presented and demonstrated! Tom KC3QAC
WOW just picked up a new in box Uberti 1860 and she needed two Days gun smithing to date on just Working safe and reliable. Mine is a bit hard to take apart or put in place, I think it is just about a perfect seal or vacuum on the cylinder pin and arbor hole? I may" scribe a vent path on post arbor Axis? Maybe a grease/oil grove too? When she hits bottom out of timeing with rotation to correct O'clock she is just about perfect in depth relation to each part not lined with guide pins home position.
I LOVE Tweeking on this stuff! WOW She Points to target like a home sick magnet, fast on the Cock, light on the cocking wrist flick! WHY did I wait SO LONG to pick up an 1860???? Now I think a .36 is in my future.
Thanks for Your INFO!! JB WELD Is MY FRIEND too! Always on my work benches and tool boxes!
Do YOU ever case harden your Well Fitting wedge? or Why Not?
Blackie...you're a fricken genius!!!
Great information Blackie, something I would have not thought of. 👍
I imagine that when made in the 1860s they made the parts oversized and hand fitted them with files. Maybe robots will be good enough one day to replicate that.
Gotta try the flat washer trick. I always stone the wedge and slot to remove the burrs and fit the inside of the slot and barrel joint on the far side.
Performed these EXACT procedures on my NEW acquisitions last evening; just general overall fit-testing BEFORE shooting my new BP revolver. Needed a "quick" video on basic assembly by Kid Nevada here on UA-cam...a short and concise almost 4 minute video that I found VERY helpful. After completion of the initial fit-testing, Blackie, the action is now buttery smooth and the cylinder gap is $20.00 bill approved! You have been absolutely wonderful in explaining the world of BP revolvers. (Sub'd) QUESTION: My revolver's "hand" was hand-tooled from the factory where it comes into close contact with the arbor. The hand-tooling was NOT smooth but chattered. Should the "hand" be smoothed out in that area and then lubricated with any kind of oil or anti-seize compound inside the "hand track"? where it is pinned to the hammer??? Thank You in advance. (NOTE: PLEASE feel free to delete this post IF you feel my referenced assembly video not appropriate for your channel, Kind Sir).
Thank you for the education again sir. Lorenzo TX
That washer is simple I went with welding on my wedge and making it thicker and grinding it down so it fits snug..but that washer trick is awesome
I love black powder revolvers...My 1851 pietta is my favorite.
Hi Blackie, greeting from Australia 🇦🇺 thankyou.
I have center punched all around the end of the arbor where it is flush with the frame in front of the hammer and tightened the loose arbor up. Make sure the barrel is on so the front two locating pins stll line up. This is a seat of the pants engineer type fix but it seems to work. I like the washer idea.
OK I can agree with that... mostly. Always appreciate the content
Mountain man
"There are several things you can do to address that"
Number One - buy a Remington 58 replica.
Step 2 cut grease grooves on the remimgton pin 🤓
Low tolerances mixed with easy installation and disassembly, is reminding me of King Arthur and the sword and the stone.
Thanks again for the great information Blackie
Thanks for the advice Blackie. Your videos are really helpful.
I have a revolver or two that make that clicking sound also so I see how you remedy it, good work Blackie
Cool !! I have an old antique that’s loose like that and had been wondering how to snug it up myself.
Thanks for the tips
This was a great tip .
GREAT tips, always!
Just did a “short” video on this just the other day.
Good trick Blackie , I have an older model 1860 Army made in Italy 🇮🇹 , I think it was made in the 70's or 80's and have never had an issue with the Arbor getting loose. If that ever happens how about unscrewing the arbor from the frame and wrapping some Teflon tape on the arbor threads then screwing it back into the frame. The Teflon tape would compensate for the small threads , wouldn't it ?
What can I use to make a #10 nipple wrench? I’ve looked online and a lot of them have bad reviews
The lock washer is a great tip! I had to make/add a shim (with two pinholes drilled) to the bottom of the frame for my *old Pietta after sooo many rounds. Yeah, it’ll have to be replaced eventually, but it may be totally unnecessary with a lock washer.
-- However, with caps being so hard to find these days, that may be *years later!
thanks for watching
@@BLACKIETHOMASThink I’ll try your peining trick- on the frame and axis pin (tho I’d bet you’d spell it “peening”!).
Dunno if I’ll have a hammer that’s *hard enough- or small enough.
Never had that problem with my Ruger Old Army! 😄 bye the bye, that bad boy fits your "Dragoon" description taking 40 gr. Of fffg under a .457 round ball. Never had the opportunity to try conical bullets in it, just ball. Works well at long range, too!
Great advice
I wouldn’t wonder if the original colts was of much higher quality! First they were expensive, second it really mattered. We could make em even better today, but that would be costly.
Skillz...thanks!
im worried about this in my uberti open top because it is a cartridge gun, someone who does services on these guns told me this also causes the guns to shoot themselves apart and damage the gun. If I set the wedge in too far I can't even cock the gun. If I have it just right it operates find.
Thanks, Blackie.
instead of using a lock washer I used a 40s&w cartridge sanded down to the rim
Utube seems to be making it harder or hiding this revolver series.
Blackie, Great Video and Outstanding Information on the percussion pistol tips and tricks . You have taught me a lot on this subject. Thank you for sharing your Time and knowledge and wisdom and passing on the craft , and all your hard work. You Are The Master Woodsman and Bushcrafter. Thanks Again. Tim L.
You would think the best way to mount the arbor is by using a screw at the back instead of just threading it.
Blackie : I bought a spare parts kit from Cabelas and it contained a spare Wedge but I would prefer not to have to buy the whole kit just for the wedge. Do you know if a Uberti wedge will fit my Pietta 1860? At the time Dixie Gun Works was way back ordered (Jan. 2020) and I want to keep a couple of spares as I already lost one where I went shooting. Have you ever had the 2 little alignment Pins in the Frame that fit into the barrel come loose? I was able to put mine back in with J B Weld but Super Glue or Red Locktite would probably work just as well. I really like the Revolver series.
👍👍👍👍
Ye aulde "stackup of tolerances" condition. Dont recall seeing "Tuco" seperately cheching that condition on the glass case-top, but just picking it up would manifest the condition...
yep tuco was the master of making it all fit just like the propmaster said it would
Hi Blackie, recently had the arbor come loose on my Walker. I’ve wicked some loctite 290 in the threads and pin and it seems to have tightened it back up, but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet.
Tin foil in increments work also
My uberti 62 pocket police new in box came with a loose Arbor instead of sending it back to Cimarron I just did this job myself remove the arbor ping the thread slightly use green Loctite and reinstalled it also I use washers for the short Harbor I like to smash them with a press rather than pinging them with a hammer a hammer will make one side flattered in the other causing the barrel to shift left or right as always love your videos Blackie thanks
Mr black where the most affordable place to buy a pietta snubnose 1860 .44 black powder pistol I'm on social security and va benafits I want to get one as a carry gun I'm 76yo thanks
Midwayusa
"Die" is the term for the arbor thread cutter...I also agree with @sean dey below, regarding lathe cut threads. I'm more concerned about the tap you mentioned cutting the pocket thread on the receiver. That said, my base pin on the Traditions 51 navy, looks like a child laborer from Wuhan machined it.
Thanks Blackie, I just took my Bill Eduards 1860Army out today .It's number is under 10000. Anyone have any info about them. Thanks everybody
No Colt ever came with a hammer in the set
Arbor cut is with a die.
Put it in an oven and silver solder the joint.
Ok.. I see a lot of vids on accuracy improvements for revolvers. some are extremely minor and well... anal.. Been shooting revolvers for half a century almost exclusively with cast slugs (now cast and coated) What is the main cause of accuracy problems? It is the size relationship between chambers and barrel bores. for lead slugs the chambers should be the same or a couple thou bigger than the bore. That is why they make molds a thou or two bigger or smaller than factory specs. For percussion guns the chamber is actually your sizing die that is why you see that ring of lead removed as the bullet is seated. Accuracy goes south when the chambers are smaller than the bore of the barrel. Imagine shooting a 36 caliber ball out of a 44 barrel say. 3 Colt clones and 7 cylinders and only two cylinders were correct for the bore. I know this because I slugged the bore (easy to do using cheap electronic calipers... The chambers I measure with Plug gauges... but... you don't even need to. slug the bore... lets say it comes out .452 Buy a hole reamer ... A hand one not for lathes... I would buy a .453 in this case. if the reamer goes into the chamber that is good enough. If not? ream the hole Now you have .453 balls shooting from a .452 bore. The rifling is able to grip the ball as intended. Anyone can do this and a 'good' reamer is maybe 15-30 bucks. Cut the groups in half on a 51 Navy I have. On my buddies Remington I just let him use the reamer. remember.. the balls are .455 so a .453 chamber will still size the balls... of his two cylinders both were undersized in all but 3 chambers. he reamed both cylinders in maybe 1/2 hour? Accuracy improvements were pretty dramatic. I measure everything but in his case we didn't measure anything. We know the balls are .455 so to get a tight fit we knew we could not go any bigger than the .453 reamer. So basically he fixed accuracy for a $25 reamer which he can use on any cylinder he buys in the future. I am sure that you could explain this stuff much better than I did. I just never see anyone talk about this even tho handloaders have been doing it for more than 100 years. In cartridge guns Colt changed the 45 Colt from .454 bore to .452 People noticed a drop in accuracy shooting the more modern .452 ammo in the older barrels that could be .455 or so. Not as big a deal in jacketed bullets since the jacket will grip the rifling even if it is a couple thou short of actual bore size. Soooo if you notice that one cylinder or... one or more chambers in a cyl shoot better than the others? LOL... that is the problem and the solution is cheap and easy
Called a die
You never answer comments
very sorry i been behind i had 5600 comments in last 90 days and have been digging out .. what is your question?
I've got a .44 and a .36 cap and ball revolver and neither of them have that hole under the hammer.
👍👍