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ABOUT THAT BRASS FRAME
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- Опубліковано 9 кві 2021
- the brass frame on cap n ball guns can be a good thing. It can also be a bad thing.in this video i try and answer questions i have been asked on the history and current state of brass frame production.
how strong is brass frame, brass frame .44,how many shots in a brass frame gun.
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This is literally the best explanation of frame stretching I have heard, thank you!
Same. I bought my first brass frame 1851 Navy in .36 last month and I'm charging it with 21grains of triple 7 fffg and it shoots point of aim at 30 yards. I feel like I could load about 25 or maybe more after this.
I don't know how many times I've watched this video. This is like sitting in on a cap and ball university lecture.
Thank you for the outstanding explanation of the work and heat hardening of the dissimiliar metals of the brass frame C&B revolvers. I'm going to save this link and give it to everyone who asks about it.
I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers since I was 15 (damn, going on 40 years now!) And I've learned a lot about quality, loads, durability, etc.
I've owned several others, but right now I have 6 of them that work, and 2 that are parts guns. I'm sure it's no surprise that the parts guns are Pietta brass frame 1851 .44's. They wont even fire anymore because of excessive cylinder movement as described in your video. They each lasted somewhere between 500-700 rounds before they were no longer usable.
But my very first C&B revolver that my father gave me for Christmas when I was 15 was an Armi San Marco (CVA branded/imported) 1858 Remington Army .44. I've shot it thousands of times over the years and I've had to replace just about everything except the frame, barrel and cylinder. And although it looks like it's 40 years old and has been fired thousands of times it still runs and shoots well. I don't shoot it often anymore because being a gift from my father it means a lot to me and ASM parts are no longer available, so I shoot my 5" Pietta and 8" Uberti instead.
My brass frame .36, a Pietta Griswold model, shoots very well, has seen over 500 shots and doesn't show any signs of shooting loose. But my 2 brass .44's just didn't hold up. I don't know how it will hold up long term but I believe my Pietta .36 Griswold, with a frame as large as a Pietta 1851 .44, will hold up much longer than its big brother did.
It was disappointing when my 5" 1851 .44 sh!t the bed because I did a lot of work to it. I really like the 1860 Army grip so I bought an ASM/CVA 1860 Army for parts that needed internals but are no longer available. So I did a LOT of fitting, filing and polishing on the gripframe and triggerguard, and also a lot of filing and sanding of the wooden grips to make them fit onmy 5" 1851. It was my favorite C&B revolver for looks and feel, and now it's nothing more than a paperweight.
My recommendation is similar to yours. Brass framed guns are OK for your first C&B to see if you like them and not spend more money on something you might not like. But if you decide you like making smoke, buy once/cry once. Get a steel frame that as long as you treat it well it will keep on working. And when small internals break, and if you shoot them any amount they definitely will break, it's easy enough to replace them and keep it running. In fact, I'd recommend keeping a spare hand/spring assy, trigger, bolt, trigger/bolt spring and a set of nipples on hand.
I have a .44 pietta
And its not been shot much
I wanted to get a conversion cylinder to .45longcolt
I dont intend to fire it, but it would be a good extra gun when camping,
Ive had concerns about it blowing up, but the cylinder & barrel is whats taking all the pressure,
Do you think i should worry?
If it stretches i got it for free and the cylinder i buy would be able to be reused on other guns i may buy later
Blackie, I was an Old West reenactor, own Pieta and Uberti guns, my oldest is a Pieta Sheriff's model, made in 1971. I also have a matched pair (consecutive serial numbers), from 2007, 1851 Navy repros ! I am now very hard on my guns, and now (at almost 70), cannot walk without a stick, and can't drive anymore. I sure DO miss my active days, but since I moved to the Western Slopes of the Rockies, I could never find anyone to "play" with!
Hope you have been well,
That rocky mountain air sure smells like home
Another great Vid Blackie! Here in England there aren't too many people with our interest, so its always good to watch your videos and educate myself. I already have a steel Pietta .44 Remington, but the brass ones look so nice! I would think a .36 in brass would have no stretching problems with that topstrap, So I'm going to place my order!
I have a trick for everyone. I found this out by accident. I nickel plated a 58 brass Remington. Nickel plating at home is very very eazy. All you need is white vinegar and a battery . when done nickel plating your part. Dip it in some Cold blue. For just a few seconds. Take out to dry. And it will look just like ubertis and pietta color case hardening.. So if you are some one like me how hates the brass look but always end up with brass framed guns. I now knickel plate the brass and colorcase it with cooled blue. It works so well that all my friends thought I sold off all my brass frame... I might do a video on it
Cool man! I have done some nickel plating with 99% nickel welding rods (flux scraped off), submerged in vinegar and salt solution, with the rods attached to an old cell phone charger. The rod that bubbles is the negative side. That is the side you connect the part you want plated. So easy! I should try that! Thanks!
@ no problem give it a shot and let me know how it ended up
Yes did you make the video? If you nickel plate it,where does the nickel come from, the vinegar?this is an excellent idea
So did u make a video or written guide somewhere.
@@Puppy_Puppington yeah I have 2 videos on my channel
Thank you again Mr. Blackie for the Brass frame wisdom.
I have 2 Rebel Colts and 1 Rebel Remington and I love them dearly.
In 1956, CVA 44 Navy with accessories, a bag of shot and a pound of powder cost 42.00. Made in Spain built out of gun mettle not scrap brass. Lasted till 1970 when i gave it too a new shooter. Needed a new wedge and main spring. Thousands of rounds no cracks.
We constantly see comments on FB BP groups with guys telling newbies never buy a cheap brass frame because they will stretch. My first BP revolver was a cheap brass frame. I shot the crap out of it and it's still a good gun. So, the myth of the crappy brass frames is still out there. Thank you Blackie for making this video. It definitely cleared the air. Now that I've been into BP shooting for quite a while I do prefer steel frames.
Mine too, I got a brass framed 51 frame with a .44 caliber dragoon/griswold style barrel. 100 dollars at a pawn shop lol
I’ve got a “brass” frame’51 I bought from cabelas 30 years ago… it’s still a shooter… it’s got a little headspace but not bad… my daughter has it now and still shooting it… it’s still on the money for quick action on rabbits and other varmints…
People still think metallurgy is the same as it was back in the dark ages or something
Haven’t shot my brass frame yet. I chipped the wedge badly cause when I first got it the manual said to take it apart and clean factory residue out. I put the wedge back in but I’ve heard so many barrel flying stories lol. Not sure if it’s in secure enough?So I have been hesitant to shoot it.
Well. Not if I want a conversion cylinder for low pressure rounds… don’t tell me that’s not true
Look at the stress/strain curve, for material to permanently deform it has to go past a certain point from plastic deformation to inelastic. No matter how many times you hit a material, if it does not go past the plastic point it will always return to original form. It would be easy for someone with a basic materials lab to find out at what loading a brass frame takes inelastic force and then people would know what level to stay under
i was under the impression that it wasnt due to the lack of iron but the ease of machining the gunmetal/brass
Its entirely possible that both reasons are true.
Nice video blackie, I'm gonna pull out my 1851 and use it a bit more, thanks!
Right on
My first BP pistol was a brass frame 1860 Army I bought in 1989. I fired about 1000 rounds through it using 30 grs of 3F with a .451 ball. One day it was not striking the caps, upon review I found the frame stretched , after that I only bought steel framed revolvers.
Just got my first brass BP. That explains why every question on these guns yield two different answers. Dad grew up hunting with BP in the 50s and uncle did the reenactments 60s-80s. Never considered the centennial reenactor boom lowering quality. Now it all makes sense. thank you.
Thanks for the education on the issue of brass frames. I just bought a brass frame Pietta 1851 sheriff's model in .36 caliber and am very happy with the build quality. So much so I bought another Pietta all steel 1860 sheriff's model to pair with my '51. I feel much better about my brasser and will shoot it to my heart's content. Thanks for all you do to help us get educated on these fine revolvers!
How easy it is to load the ball with the short lever of the sheriff?
Finally got my hands on some percussion caps.
I've been picking up cap and ball revolver since the beginning of this year taking it for granted that I'd be able to get all the stuff that goes with it!
Great information Blackie. You answered many questions I had about modern brass frames.
I have an old 36 armi san marco brass frame since the 90s, I had to cut back the frame n do all the stuff to reset it from cylinder hamering. It seems to have work hardened the backplate and I keep the cylinder gap tight and it has worked fine for a while now. It seems like its the cylinder flying back smacking the frame is the biggest problem at least on my gun
My Pietta '51 brass Navy in .44 works great. I have had it for about 20 years. It still shoots to point of aim at about 25 yards. Don't be afraid to shoot one if you can find it.
How many loads have you shot it with? What grains of BP?
I just watched your brass frame video earlier; it is good to know that the brass frames do hold up well, but you are still on a somewhat unspecified clock.
Thanks for the insight, Blackie!
Have owned many percussion revolvers of all makes, only once did I find a problem. It was a brass San Marco reproduction 1851. Traded for it used. It was abused heavily. The previous owner shoot very heavy loads constantly. It became sloppy loose. Was able to fix it but soon retired it to a wall hanger .
Thanks Blackie for the wisdom of your long time experience with these Lovely guns! Many Blessings and Good Shootin! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Blackie, you've given me a good idea for fixing shot out brass framed revolvers. Still working on how to fix an 1858 brass frame though.
It' good to know Your openion about that brass. I don't like to do off-topic here.
But I like to know what You think about INOX steel. Love Your black powder seriess...
Thats my question to!
Pieta Remington 1858 new army 44?
i got a 1851 brass maybe 10 years ago because brass looked nicer. due to a bank error, it ended up free :-)
Man, sounds like you lucked out on that
@@johnpogz9523 yep, think i bought the 1851, an ar15 lower and a 380 pistol
Awesome info & history! I miss the regular percussion videos.
You are the most detailed and informative of all the tubers out there and I learn something new everytime even after 50 yrs. Thank you.
thank you very much safe journeys to you
Great vid Blackie. As an English BP shooter there are few folks I can bounce ideas off or ask for advice, but your videos help a lot!
When your brass-frame revolver wears out, you can always mount it on the wall of your man cave as a decoration. 😀
Blackie. Back in the early 80s I worked for a man who was a collector of cival war arms and he showed me a brass frame remington style revolver that had been converted to a 44 calibre cartridge. We never fired it if course but a 44 special cartridge would fit the chambers. There was no loading gate or ejector. I've told other so called experts in forums about it and been called a liar more than once but I'm figuring you will know about such conversation weapons if that era. Could you maybe inform us on those things ?
Great video Blackie, recently purchased a Pietta Griswold so this was perfect timing.
Very good discussion. One of the best on youtube.
The original southern guns were made of “bell metal”. Actually bronze of 80% copper and 20% tin. This alloy was designed to ring true but was also almost ideal for gun frames as it compared very well to the period “steel” frames which were actually malleable iron and not steel at all. In 1860 and even today bronze is more costly than steel.
In the 1960’s cheap guns had brass frames. Brass is about 85% copper and 15% zinc. But alloys vary. Brass is physically weaker than bronze but has greater elasticity. It is “springy”.
Gun metal in its various alloys is bronze, not brass. It contains traces of lead and phosphorous to improve machining quality. It compares well to mild steel in every respect except cost.
Some guns of the 70’s had brass frames. These are the ones that “stretch”. There were also bronze frames. They dont stretch.
The frame does not stretch per se. The base pin may be pulled from the threads in the frame if poorly threaded with too fine a pitch of thread. Non-ferrous alloys require the use of coarser threads than iron/mild steel. Most “end shake” which is the real effect of excessive loads in a brass frame is the cylinder mechanically battering the recoil ring in the frame. That ring like protrusion in the recoil shield that the hand protrudes through and that supports the rear of the cylinder. Poor initial fitting allows some end shake which simply progresses with time. You are correct the fixing this condition is costly.
Well done.
I wonder, with all the 3D printing gun stuff going on, if anybody has taken the parts from a stretched out brass frame cap and ball revolver and 3d printed a frame to try it out. Maybe even test it's durability against brass. Great Video as always
You'd have to find a stretched frame first, despite all the fuddlore nobody has presented one in real life
When I was kid/teen brass frame black powder the old gen then had a nick name "Pietta Crap"...As I matured I kept that in mind, Boy have I missed out. Now at 52 I am learning that yes the early repros for reenactments should have been kept for just that. Well and the idiots running hot loads in them, well here is their sign. A $49 Cap and ball blank shooter of 1960 is nowhere near my Pietta Sheriff of 2017,
I have a brass frame .36 caliber 1851 Navy, MOFRA or EuroManufacture (double diamonds) manufactured in 1972. I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of those "soft" brass frames, but it is still tight, so I don't think it was fired much before I got it in 2005-ish. I use 20 grains of 3F. I think it'll outlast me. If not, then it'll become a wall hangar.
Always wondered if the brass alloy used in todays brass guns wasnt at least a little bit better.
Going from 500 rounds to 2000 rounds tells the whole story.
Heck, after 2000rnds, get a steel frame for it and brass plate it lol.
Love it. You gave the same reasons that I learned in my research. I have no practical experience with cap and ball revolvers. I want some but just don't have it. I remember those adds from the 80's! Great info on the stretching of metal. If I shot one out I do believe it will go on the mantel as a display cause man they are beautiful. It seems like a lot of this is common sense and the individual doing his research and gaining the knowledge. Of course that is a rarity now days.
9:39 perfect analogy, here in Europe it's pretty common to see this when you go around old buildings which are many hundreds years old, for exemple if there is stairs to a Church you will see steps that appear to have melted when actually it's just by how much people over the centuries took it and the stones bent over time.
I am thinkin' a "brass" frame Remmie would be a delightful woods knock about gun.
I totally Agree. Thanks Blackie
I learned how to time a revolver using those old C&B revolvers from back in the days.
... Not that I like timing a revolver anymore.. lol but it helped me
Thanks for mentioning the problem with conicals. I shoot a steel frame Pietta '58 Remington and passed on purchasing conicals recently because I suspected they'd lead to problems with the rammer/linkage/lever. Just the other day I saw a penetration/expansion/accuracy test side by side with roundballs on another channel and the conicals don't seem worth it anywho.
Great information and history lesson Blackie, thanks!👍
Glad you enjoyed it
I have one Navy London Yank and one regular Navy, both .44 brass Piettas. I just keep ‘em between 15-25 grains of Goex 3FG.
Great little guns and enjoying them, but I’m still learning to be honest.
Awesome video sir thank you
All i could find is the brass framed ones when i looked o.O
A Steel framed one will be my next BP pistol :D
“Blood-tight” thats really tight :0
You won't stretch , and batter them if you don't overload them. Alot of people always load the max charge. I have a 51 navy 44, and 20, to 25 grs. Of powder is the best , anything more is just wasted powder, and abuses the gun. Also I find heavier loads decrease accuracy.
So 25 is safe enough? I want one but I want to get the round fast enough for defensive purposes if I'm forced to use it.
@@humansvd3269 yes 25 is perfectly safe, but doesn’t pack much power. I think to even approach a modern weak .38 special power, you’d need around 30 grains.
I use Brasso on my brass fames and they look like a mirror. Of course, some like the dull patina. To each their own. I remember poring over those ads with the EMF black powder pistols at the back of gun magazines like it was yesterday. I bought my first BP pistol when I was 18 in 1975, EMF 1860 army brass frame .44 Army, $47 bucks through the mail It was a thrill to be able to buy a real functioning pistol through the mail. Yes, the quality was pretty rough, but I will say that Pietta has come a LONG way in quality since then. Thanks Blackie.
Yup yup nice my first was .44 Sheriff in the brass... That was 2014 For me it is a 2010 make I got it used then...2023 I still shoot it keep in mind 20 grains & and round ball only..
I appreciate your comments. Your disposition is much appreciated by the common man.
I love you show and I think you said you was in the military and I thank you for your service the question I have for you do you know where you can get oversized grip for 1858 Remington revolver
Thank you
yes look at dixie gun works they will have replacement blanks they will be a bit over side so you can custom fit to your hand
I have 4 new production .36 Pietta brasser Navies that I shoot lots, and I use 20 gr charges . No problems. The older guns had softer frames.
The vast majority of buyers of a brass frame Colt won't put anywhere near 2000 rounds through one.
Thx for the vid, I listen all the way thru the vid because I've never owned a brass framed BP pistol. But I knew about the frame stretch from the same time period you did, thx for the new update on the newer frames.
great video, you are correct, gunmetal is way different then brass, heck, they used to make cannons out of gun metal and a lot of them are still around. Another reason that Gun metal was used, is it requires less heat to melt and it can be cast, that is another reason that the south used it as a large blacksmith shop could produce them.
good info, thanks!
i know the Henry .22, golden boys have a steel frame with a "brasslite" receiver cover. i THINK the big boy brass are the same but idk for sure, since i dont own one.
Has it been that long for Dixie gun works I first saw it in 83/84 with my first BP Colt and had lots of issues with the wedge but it sure was fun. Then I came across the Remington 44 that was lot's of fun had New revolver's and pistols but the black powder was my go-to unless I was in the Barn. Thanks for bringing back memories.
Thanks for the sage information, again. I really enjoy these percussion videos.
25 grn is my standard load for my brass frames and I love them.
How many have you shot?
@@humansvd3269 more than I will ever care to try and keep count. Been shooting my brass frame for …. 15 years, a little worn but still has a tight gap. When I go hiking or camping I usually carry my brass frame, on longer trips I’ll carry my steel frame.
Great VID thats needed doing for a good while. 👍
Like you I've have and shoot both steel and brass revolvers ALOT like a whole LOT 🤣
Love em all, one fav is an 80s Era Richland Arms (ASM) 1858 IN .44. It's had 2 lifetimes of shooting for most folks thru it and still going strong. I load 20grn a wonder wad and hand cast roundball. Accurate Fun Reliable and Ugly, like big nose Kate 😄
Says in the manual no conical in brass and 5gr less powder than steel for round in my brass I just go by the manual and have no issues no thousands of rounds but my "brass" is just as tight as my steel 🤔 not too worried just shoot hot loads or conical in my steel frames 👍 great video!
My first BP gun was an 1858 Remington Navy in .36 cal. I shot the piss outta that revolver and had zero issues. My second one though was an 1858 New Model Army with a brass frame in .44 cal. I shot it with 30grn Pyrodex pre-formed pellets and round ball ( I didn't know any better, it was a long time ago). The frame bent so bad after a few cylinders that the cylinder would no longer rotate. I gave it away to my cousin and it sits above his fireplace on the mantle. I will never buy a brass frame again. Lesson learned.
You are very wise I really appreciate your information in your contacts God bless you Blackie
Great advice.....thank you!
Damn, this has been informative.
What is the highest powder charge you would recommend for a pietta brass 1858 Sheriff? Thanks for the time and work you put into these videos.
Thanks, Blackie. I appreciated your videos.
I appreciate that
What about conversion cylinders? I just bought a Pieta 1851 navy (steel frame) 36cal and ordered a 38 conversion cyl for it. I have a 51 navy Euroarms (with pieta markings) mid 70s and if the conversion cylinder fits hope to use it on that too, or get another for it. Cowboy loads on the low side is my plan. Howell the maker of the cylinders does not recommend using them with brass frame, but I suspect it is for liability. The recommended bullet is 38 spl hollow base wad cutter. The bullet is .358 while the bore is 375. It seems to me if done right I can get a safe set up. I do not see why the brass frame would be less safe with low pressure cartridges, than it is with cap and ball on a normal charge.
I hope to do Cowboy Action but don't have over $1000.00 to spend on revolvers, and here in Mass they have a list so none of the $500.00 revolvers can be purchased in Mass. So setting these up seems to be a fair alternative. Shooting cap and ball doesn.t seem like it would be all that reliable for speed shooting!
What are your thoughts? Will I shoot my eye out kid? I hear by release you from any liability for any advise :)
Thanks, Dana
I ran a couple of pounds of fffg & ffg blackpowder through a Pietta 1858 Remington .44 caliber revolver with a brass frame. Lead roundballs only. Never an issue. It was perfect when I sold it. I decided to get back to shooting blackpowder revolvers, so I just ordered another brand new brass frame Pietta 1858 Remington .44 revolver. Ain’t skeered. But on the open top Colt design, I would buy the steel frame/blackstrap version.
I have a Henry Golden boy in 45LC.
I have fired Underwood Ammo hardcast semi wadcutters through that thing. That gun can take a punch, trust me, the alloy is fine.
Thanks Blackie...great information!
I always fill all my powder charges on 36 and 44 to within 1/4 inch from the mouth of cylinder and never wore out a brass frame.
My old brasser 51 chambered in 44 is slicker then owl sh!t. I through one of my ol' famous action jobs on her and her action feels like breaking glass. You may not believe it but that ol vrasser will group better then Ny modern gun iv ever shot
The Henry rifles are actually steel, with a brass cover over the receiver frame...but your point stands...today’s brass framed cap &ball guns are much more durable than the early ones.
Henry Golden Boy is 22lr. Brass plated. The Big Boy 44 and 30 30 are solid Brass.
I got an 1851 London and I regret it. That steel grip will rust if you just look at it wrong. I’ll be ordering nickel coated brass grips someday soon. I still prefer a steel frame, but brass grips are best.
Good video !
Greetings Blackie! Iam in French and get my first Percussion Revolver 1 year ago. A brass one, Colt 1851 and the Cilinder "stopper" got way wider in this charge like the ones you show. i think pietta overthinking his actions. did shoot a lot with premade BP charges - Paper cartridges - Roundballs and i look allways for the gap between cylinder and barrel. to this time its fine after about 100 shoots. thanks for your advise, looking for a steel or nickelbody revolver for future. Love that Blackpowder Community and the hirstorical sience. thanks for your videos and have a great 2022!
glad you enjoy my videos safe journeys to you
One thing we forget is that we will shoot more in one weekend than old-timer would in a lifetime . Ammo cost money ,they were frugal . M.B.
I just picked up a EIG 1851 navy with brass frame from Italy. It looks like it’s never been shot but maybe once. I don’t know what year it is but it has a stamp date on it that is XX. All the mechanics and parts are in good working order.
I agree I've shot the crap out of my 1851 navy sheriff brass I love it it's my only black powder gun had it about 5 years still shoots awesome I just underload it !!
I just picked up an old Pietta 1851 Navy .36 brass frame that had a date of 5 June, 1975 scratched into the frame. It is the second brass frame Navy I have had, never wore the first one out. This second one was shot out when I got it, and still shoots even with a 22 grain load has absolutely zero accuracy. And the gun rattles less then the service revolver in 38 special I was issued by Pinkerton security agency back in the 1990's and that was a modern steel frame revolver. Course all I use the Pietta 1851 brass frame navy from 1975 for is scaring off skunks, and peacocks that seam to love roosting on my old Ford truck. Course now instead of buying a new gun like Blackie suggested I would simply buy a new steel frame off of old ebay, as it will be cheaper then buying an entire new gun.
Thanks for the great video!
So it looks to me that these Italian gun nickel plate there frames and dip them in cold blue and that's how they get there color case hardening look. So you could do this on a brass frame gun and it works perfectly. My brass frame 1860 looks steel frame
Ill back up your opinions Bkackie. I actually bent the rammer handle on my 49 pocket from Uberti loading baby dragoon bullets on mine lol. My fault. Its been corrected. I have a brass frame 44 sheriff thats taught me a lot about gun smithing. Its my test gun. I use it, due to price, to check ideas before i do it to a steel frame gun. Its been an excellent teaching tool. Ive had to replace things when the idea didnt pan out, but, it was $149.99 on sale. Lol i got twice that and more in my steel frame guns. When the frame wears out ill use the barrel and cylinder on a different frame. Lol ive got 1 other 44 steel frame clone....62 dance and brothers. Itll fit that frame fine. Already tested it. Lol
I shoot 30 grains constantly in my brass 1851 and steel 1851 both 44 cal.. nothing has changed on either, the brass is the same as it was the day i got it. ive even shot max loads of 37 grains out of it, to where the ball is nearly sticking out of the chamber lol.. my remingtons are both brass, ive shot 45 grains out of them before.. nothing happened to em.. i usually just shoot 30 grains though because its quicker to reload using my flask which is 30
How many rounds?
@@humansvd3269 probly well over 1000 now i ahoot it often its my first bp gun i pull out when i want to shoot. And my first i carry when im in public.
I also shoot 45 grains out if my brass remington 1858s as well. No issues.. but i dont like the remington much so i ive maybe shot 200 out that brass gun
@@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 Thank you. I want a 36 cal G&G but they're basically out. Only 44 version is around. If the brass frames can hold up to 30 just fine, I think I'll be safe. Any issues with bp substitutes?
@@humansvd3269 I dont use substitutes in fear of rusting issues or cleaning/clogging issues ive read randomly.
I stick to normal powder.. its also fairly easy to get powder where im at. My local shooting range is big on black powder and usually has 2f-3f so I buy a lbs when I go and slowly been stocking up..
The main thing you want to look for with any gun though is the clearance between the barrel cone and cylinder. Grab the cylinder when the gun is half cocked and push and pull it foward. There will always be a little play and clicking sound. But what you dont want is a super large gap. This is what can cause the cylinder to PEEN out the brass ring per say. A very large gap can also cause cylinders to not fire because th3 hammer will hit the cap but push the cylinder foward and it wont go off.
I bought a 1847 walker made in 93 like this.. the arbor was stretched from years of using 60 grains of powder I imagine. So I simply filed the arbor down and the lug on the barrel and this pulled it closer and fixed the gap. Easy fix. Before I did that the walker wouldn't fire half the time.
So yea the gap you want to see between the cone and cylinder is about 1-2 blades of grass and no more.
So yea..my 1851 44 brass is my favorite out of all of my 6-7 bp revolvers.. I have polished steel 36 cal 1851. Regular steel framed 44 1851. Two brass 1858. A polished steel 1860, and a 1847 walker.
I always chose the brass 1851 first.
Another funny thing about the frame framed guns. Is brass is also a better bearing material than steel. So the cylinders ride and spin quicker/smoother. For example half cock the gun and spin the cylinder with your palm and itll spin 3x more than the steel framed versions. My 1858 remingtons do this as well. Also found my brass 1851 takes much longer to foul too because of this.
But ya I shoot 30 grains 24.7 in my 1851 brass.. no issues.. and when I carry for open carry.. yes I do carry them.. I load max which is about 37 grains. Where the 454 balls are almost poping outa the cylinder. Then when I go to range I shoot them with the 37.. and reload at 30.. then I go home and clean.. and reload them at 37-40 to carry. Each cylinder is diff some hold 37 some hold 40 i noticed.
Also since youre new to bp.. make sure you get good screw drivers.. 1 tiny one to fit the smaller screws and 1 larger for the large screws.. make sure they fit the entire screw head. If you have too, file down the screw driver so it fits right. This pertains to any gun. This way you dont damage thr screw heads. I learned this from a very very old gunsmith. Always have the proper screw driver or file them down to fit right. And also youre done cleaning using 44-45 cal brass brushes.. wipe the inside of the barrel good with a gun cleaning solvent on some cotton pads and then use motor oil on your last pad to coat the inside of the barrel so it doesnt rust.. cleaning with water and soap is thr best thing for black powder.. but will flash rust the barrel quickly thats why
@@humansvd3269 also ask yourself this... notice how many brass lever action guns are out there ? Some shooting 45-70 rounds.. mine shoots 44 magnum. Youll be fine.
Blackie is there a shoot-loose issue with the remington brass 1858 or 63 pocket revolvers. Or just colt revolvers ?
I was not sure if the full frame stops this from occurring. Thank you for your time.
Colt made brass frame revolvers back in the day. New Line mini revolvers, circa 1873. Supposedly as a back-up for the Peace Maker and also for personal protection in the urban cities of the time.
Dear Blackie,
Outstanding video, as always, Ihave been asking myself, where did the perccusion series went.. But here it is!
More videos please:). Can You do an update on small leather bullet pouch, and review grip change between navy-army models (and is it worth it).
Also, do You have in mind coming to Europe to do some classes?
You just got new subscriber.
Also, how to get to your patreon account.
Best regards Blackie.
EZ fix will be to take the arber out and thread it some more fit till you have the gap your looking for then lock-tight it back in place file threaded end of arber off to make it flush again
Awesome video i own a brasser shoot only 18grains .451 balls hope it will last a long time i put about 100 rounds a year threw it thanks for the great advice!
Why do people speculate this without any practical gunsmithing Experience? Brass Frames do not stretch…
The Arbor doesn’t beat inwards ever. What actually happens is the ratchet on the back of the steel cylinder beats the recoil ring and brass being malleable just moves away and what appears to look like a wave. If you take the time to pull a cylinder out of one and look at the recoil ring you will see what I’m talking about. But without taking the gun apart, if you cock it slowly you will see the cylinder Move forward and back as the ratchet goes over the waves in the recoil ring. I’ve been professionally working on these guns for 35 years and I’ve seen thousands.
The original Remington brass frame 1858 .36 caliber, made in Ilion, NY, costs enough to buy 20 Pietta’s
Brass is definitely not my first choice but I bought a 1851 navy brass frame for 50 dollars..
Thanks for a very good video & great info despite how much advertising the UA-cam weekend interns/idiots tried to interrupt your presentation. I've got a couple .44 brass Pietta Navies from around 2003 as I recall from the stamped date code. Haven't used them much but sure enjoyed them more than the steel Remmies I also shoot(shot). Never saw any wear & tear on the Colts. I'm thinking your advice about oversized bullets both shooting & loading are real pertinent points not mentioned much elsewhere. I loaded mine with .451 caliber not .454 on a freestanding loader & relied on cornmeal or Crisco to make the seal (messy!) & I think that's the way to do it for the longevity of parts.
That’s kinda risky I feel as I have heard of badly drilled chambers with hanging edges. Burs? Either way. I rather play it really safe than close.
Hello, I really enjoyed the knowledge you've shared talking about brass and steel properties. I'm interested in a Remington New Army 58 44 cal. My question is related more to cleaning the brass frame on a BP revolver. I've tried finding a video regarding this, but I haven't been able to find one that deals with brass frame. Is there anything special needed to keep it from tarnishing since it is brass and not steel? Thanks. I'm so glad I found your channel.
I have a 51 navy brass framed ,I bought in 1990 ,never fired it ,paid 89.95 for it from cabellas
Sound advice Blackie.
sage advice.
Well Heck I'm going out to the gun store see they have one in stock ! All fooling aside I haven't been able to find any percussion caps. 4/12/2021
BRASS FRAME IS EXCELLENT I USE 24 GRAIN AS MY WEAK LOAD AND ITS NEVER FAILED ME THATS THE PIETTA 1858 .44 CAL. HOLDS UP GREAT REMINGTON STYLE
What about a brass frame new model Army. It is not an open topsoil wouldn't the frame be a little stronger? Are the brass frame New model Armys hold up as long or longer then the brass frame Colt type open tops? Just wondering. I own several brass frames and my 44s I don't shoot hot loads, and my 36 I don't either. I have shot several hundred rounds and so far both my brass open top and closed tops are still as good as new. Thanks for the videos, they are always way informative and I have Lear a lot from your UA-cam channel. Thank you.