my first reaction to when knuckles said that and sonic rubbed his stomach was me shouting "HE ATE THE FUCKING ISLAND?!" so I can relate to this comment XD
So basically in this wonderful rewrite it seems like classic sonic ate knuckles' island because he awkwardly touches his belly after knuckles asks about the island...
1:45 The original take actually worked better as an in-joke. Tails wouldn't recognize Green Hill, because he's never been to Green Hill. The game he debuted in had Emerald Hill.
@@iomar224 either way, the whole reason it’s written that way, to subtly reference the fact that tails wasn’t in sonic 1 and debuted in sonic 2, gets lost for a blatant, finger-point lore reference
@@sinkaido You mean hollow dilog that all of us in the press panned at the time leading to the mixed reviews... That they fixed with the new diolog... Like serouly it like Mario not rebering SMB 85 1-1 in SMB wonder or odseey... Which green hill zone is way more imfluncal on the entire IP then 1-1 was for mario... Like I can't think of any sonic game that didn't start with a Green hill zone like stage... I can think of plenty of mario games that don';t start with anything related to 1-1... Also like what was so special about the dilog in the first version anyway? Like if genraions had a world with out sonic plot and sonic has to retrace his steeps thoughout his impact on gaming history sure... But that ins't the plot is it? It's based on new and Classic sonic getting together on an epic advature thoughout thair games! So yeah i'd expact the character to know their past that is tghe wghole idea of the pplot!
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough changing a subtle reference for an obvious one only serves to make the dialogue more hollow. Ur talking abt “the press” (which u really mean the sonic community) but like… those are the exact same people who are saying the new lines are worse… . Also Mario doesn’t even mention those levels in new games, and in their lore it already has a name: the mushroom kingdom. Also there are many Sonic games without green hill levels: in fact that’s only a trait consistent on the genesis era games. Ever since he made the jump to 3D the only time we’ve gotten close to green hill was this game and lost worlds; adventure started with a beach, adventure 2 with city escape, etc.. in fact, as a result, u can argue that Tails has never even been to green hill zone. The reason why the line worked better at first was because it isn’t in ur face. The new one feels cheap, meant for new fans and is too in ur face for old fans. With the old line, it’s more of a clever way to make fans feel good abt sticking w the franchise for so long; the way it’s written makes it feel like a small nod meant only for ppl who’d understand why tails is talking like that. U don’t get that same special feeling from the new lines. Also the old lines work perfectly fine. The fact that they feel Deja vu is enough proof that they actually were in those locations and have some memory of them, although faint. That + the way the references were handled were perfectly fine, which is why these changes feel cheap, confusing, and detractive
@@Super70000 Have you tried talking to her right after the cutscene? None of the dialogues of the characters outside of the cutscenes has been changed.
Is that line about her saying her “teamwork leads to marriage, wait sonic come back” still there I just recently found out about it , man they did Amy so dirty in og gens , I’m happy they changed it but it shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place
I think why they referenced stuff in frontiers is since the timeline got shat on and no one knew what was canon and not, so they decided to throw in references to older sonic games so people could know what was canon or not
the actual reason frontiers is full of references is that the previous writers were very unfamiliar with sonic and did not care, so ian flynn really wanted us to know he is and does
Every 3d sonic is canon and the 2d sonic games kinda happened in another universe and that‘s it for me. Everything before Adventure non canon everything after adventure canon. except Boom, Boom just didn’t happen don‘t know what that is
2:27 I would like to add that Sonic does canonically recognize Green Hill. We all know the infamous line in Sonic Forces "Green Hill is looking a lot more like Sand Hill right now"
There's also Sonic Prime, which shows Sonic sees Green Hill as a really important place. It's not his home but it's a place he likes to visit a lot. As much as I dislike Prime being canon, it should at least be considered. I doubt Sonic randomly started to appreciate and hang out in Green Hill after Generations. It was probably an ongoing thing.
Look at it from the perspective of when the game came out, Green Hill only appeared in spin-offs like racing games, the only main games that featured it we're Sonic 1, Adventure 2, and Generations
@DaNintendude Prime isn't canon nor should it be as Sonic has a different characterization there and Sonic hanging out in Green Hill after Gens isn't random and could've totally happened. He probably did find it really nice and started hanging out there more after Gens, it isn't anymore random then him deciding to hang out in any other zone.
@Crump-I6x Prime _is_ canon. I wouldn't like it to be, and I agree about characterization, but it's been stated to be canon. With that being said, there actually _is_ evidence that Sonic is more familiar with Green Hill than we'd believe. Note how at the beginning of Sonic Generations, Classic Sonic is running through Green Hill Zone. It's possible that he was ripped straight from the events of Sonic 1, but based on Sonic's familiarity with Robotnik and Classic Tails, that moment would've at least been after Sonic 2. This means that Sonic has indeed returned to Green Hill outside of Sonic 1.
This might sound nit picky, but I liked how the original Generations didn't show Classic Eggman until the end of the game. That way it keeps the surprise that the 2 Eggmen are working together by making you think there was only one Eggman.
well really the twist was he was seemingly kidnapped after that boss fight, when the reality was he and eggman were working together (hell the fact eggman is actually the big bad is also a twist, as nothing suggested the time eater was one of his inventions until the literal reveal prior to the final boss battle)
@TheRealNightFall666wouldnt it be obvious though? If sonic and tails have a younger version of themselves helping out why wouldn't the big bad also have one?
The funny thing is that the only changes made to the Japanese version besides the visual changes are Sonic's additional lines after saving his friends. Other than that, no changes were made to the script.
"and that pink water makes me really nervous" now THAT'S how you do a call back. not even just to Sonic 2, but to the feeling of hearing that Drowning jingle lol
To be fair, the writing and writers of the original dialogue were criticized for openly stating they barely knew anything about Sonic. Having a person who closely follows the series do the rewrites might not be too bad.
@@danalynch118 Because it leads to the obscene naval-gazing the series is now struggling with. Never allow fanboys to steer the ship of a franchise, because they're incapable of being anything but derivative. You can have someone who RESPECTS the series that they write about, but an out and out fanboy will never be a good thing.
@@felixdaniels37 No? When you have people who know and love the franchise it goes better. Sonic mania is a peak example of this. P06 too. Someone who knows the series should always be allowed
Only year I miss from the 2010s is 2010 itself, it really felt like we were slowly entering a new era with the rise of Smartphones and Social Media, some video games would play it safe by doing nostalgia pandering and I think it’s from the success of Megaman 9.
@@brandonwilliams6119 I formed my first thoughts in 2010 (I was 4). More seriously my favorite year in the 2010's is 2015, we got Undertale this year, FNAF the year before and dragon ball super anime was at its peak.
@@Kutomi1 I'm not a Knuckles fan but I agree. If you make Amy suddenly strongarmed then it kinda downplays Knux being the muscle one. It also ends up making him look dumber than he is, because if Amy really was that strong, shouldn't he be amongst the few people to know that already?
That’s the worst downgrade change ever, also Sonic not holding Amy by the face was so cute and goofy, SXSG is so soulless and sanitized of the funny moments of the original.
The weirdest part is that these changes are ONLY in the English script. Makes me wonder what’s the deal on the American side of things. Also I think we’re putting too much agency on Ian Flynn, I don’t buy that he has the power to alter characterisation or designs - I’m pretty sure it was an executive decision based on some bogus focus test or market research or another.
There are few reasons why the dialogue feels like a downgrade at least to me: - They didn't change much of the animations or lipsyncing for the times they spoke in the OG game - The changed lines are either too wordy, or too less of dialogue to fit in (example: ending cutscene when modern and classic sonic and the ending cutscene).This causes their body language to be conlicted with their actual words. - The voice direction overall just feels lifeless and fake. Not alot of energy to their lines (Since it's been a decade since Generations so no shit lol) I'd say the ONLY real improvement in terms of dialogue was letting modern sonic speak after he's saved each of his friends.
For refrences... While cool at first, feel too forced at times. I think the original did better in just ALLUDING to it, rather than just putting it infront of your face. Like for example: In OG Gens, Tails says after completing Modern Chemical Plant, that the pink water makes him nervous. If you have played sonic 2 you would understand why since tails always gets left behind, and it's worse for him when you get to the infamous water climb section. The rewrite was worse, since it feels more cheap imo.
Also the connection between the two stories feels VERY half-baked, which I'm sorry... Shouldn't THAT be the focus when it came to rewriting the story??? Instead in comparison, they focused more on trivial things like how Amy Rose's character is shown, or silver having a chillidog at the ending cutscene (which is obviosuly not finished like everything else with the cutscenes) They did all of these little changes, and didn't do anything for one of the most boring final bosses in sonic history??? Especially when you have the final boss of Shadow Gens in the SAME PACKAGE??? It just shows that so much more time went into the Shadow portion than having BOTH games be worked on at equal value.
I completely disagree with your third point. Listening to both the original and new voice lines, I think the voice direction is pretty much the exact same as in the original
Amy should’ve been kept the same because in frontiers it now shows how much she’s matured and is more chill. I don’t think she should always seem that way before frontiers
Amy may have regressed in Generations from Unleashed. In the end of that game, Amy's able to successfully ask Sonic out on a date, and then Black Knight happens, making Amy assume Sonic stood her up.
I've been saying that too, but it's seems to be like this detail keep getting overlooked or ignored. It's just like since its toned down who cares if it lessens her character development. Frontiers Amy has loss that growth she's got to tone down her affection and be gradual with it, to mature. The Rouge back covering is bad redesign and strangely unnecessary but 2024 am I right?
@@thebluewind5733 Yh some of the changes are very strange and unnecessary. The time spent fixing things that didn't need to be fixed could've been put into other stuff
@@thebluewind5733tbf it does seem like Sega is trying to put the same lid on for the most part on everyone's characterisation of the 2010's while going back to the time where they were written as more mature (works even better as their audience is getting older despite everything) in the early 2000, who had terrible game like 06, but generally better stories (if we forget Shadow 05 whose story is terrible solely because lack of proper continuity with Heroes the over edgy story and multiple stories none of whom are the true one). Its a mood for sure but even if it was badly done in Sonic Generation remake its not like Amy was always represented as a Sonic Simp, even by the time of Generation, she had her own character devellopement, opposed Sonic at one point for legitimate reason and her kind nature shined best in stuff like SA2 where she singlehandedly saved the world by convincing Shadow to actually think for a minute about what Maria really wanted and hell Shadow 05 too i believe? Granted Heroes was in the middle of that and a mess for her character if memories serves right. But all that to say that ultimately Sega could still make her more mature in Generation while she retained her obsession for Sonic and it still wouldnt hurt her devellopement in Frontiers where she wishes to actively seek her own path. They just half assed the entire thing though so it truly didnt do it any favor haha. Easier to work with the most mature story of their universe which is Shadow's backstory to give a mature mood than work maturity in a story that didnt take itself all that seriously originally
@Freedmoon44 Indeed, like I said, it's not a deal breaker, but I feel editing some of what Gens delivered was warranted but the Amy and Knuckles lines are not good edits and is a product of overcorrecting what was fine. I feel that Colors and Gens were the better of the Pontac and Graff mess of storytelling. (Believe me I did not like most of their writing.) Heck even I can say Amy had character whiplash during the 2000s. I just think they could've worked with it like the Tails inconsistent characterization is all.
I think people are upset that the dialogue had to be changed to begin with. It's like the Star Wars special edition changes and the "Han shot first" debacle. Feels like it's erasing the past to fit with the current state of the franchise, irrespective on whether individual changes are good or bad.
I'd be fine with them retconing stuff from previous titles in rereleases if sonic was an actually consistent franchise with a clear direction, but as it stands litterally every game tries to do something different and doesn't care much about what the previous games actually were like, I'm sure next time they rerelease generation it's going to slightly different again
@@brdgamemaster The idea that a literal toddler would forever keep the promise of playing with a tow cowboy because some college kid told her to do it was always dumb
@@danalynch118 your comment is uselessly contrarian, explain what you said "nope" to, what argument that one of us here did do you think you're refuting with the rest of your comment? to simplify my comment: you're just talking to yourself and not adding anything to the conversation
it's usually a vocal minority tbh. like, in any fanbase. if you hear about people online complaining about something, it's probably not nearly as many people as you think, the ones complaining are just really noisy about it
Well remember her ninja suit in Sonic X which doesn’t have her bareback? Rouge probably must have some holes so her wings will fit and they’ll make her feel comfortable for her to fly, But you have to know she’s not a playable character like in the original. Remember she was covered up in Sonic Prime.
@@brandonwilliams6119 Well... A bare back CAN be sexual. Almost everything can if you put enough effort into it.. Or if you have the right perspective for it. And there's no denying that sexual appeal was part of her design... Which, tbh, i don't see a problem with that either... But that's the thing: it was only PART of her appeal (in terms of design), the other is the visual theming of a spy and her archetype as a femme fatale. It's just odd that they did this at all because it contradicts the idea behind her design. She IS supposed to look more mature than the other characters, and she IS supposed to look seductive because not only does it fit into the archetype; it's part of her job as a spy to use her looks to manipulate others and make it so she doesn't look dangerous at first glance.
Fun fact about the Sonic monologue lines in Frontiers: They will only happen if Sonic does not enter a combat sequence, a Cyber Space stage, a boss fight, or interacts with a puzzle for at least 10 minutes (might also include platforming segments but I am unsure). If you somehow managed to do that and still didn't get one, it's also because collecting a ring resets the timer. Yeah. No idea why they wanted to make getting these lines so hard, but there's a mod for the PC version that makes them trigger from either every 35 seconds to 2 minutes regardless of what you do.
The main issue i have with the rouge change is practicality. Her new outfit makes no sense. how is she supposed to put it on when her wings would get in the way. thats what i always thought was the reason she wore open back clothing to accommodate her wings
I felt similar at first, but then I remembered that these games had never been practical. Rouge wears a full jumpsuit in Sonic Heroes, and her back is covered. Tails shouldn't be able to fly with his tails like helicopter propellers because they would just get twisted at the base.
@@Burgerbro7117 admittedly the tails thing did bother me after i realised that as well but outside of things like that that dont have a workaround they really should try and keep things that can be made to make sense do so.
The only changes i have a problem with are the Classic Sonic one and Rouge's outfit. I feel like they were unnecessary, especially with the hilarious implication that Classic Sonic ate Knuckles' island. To be clear, I'm referring to the back of Rouge's outfit.
The main issue i have with the change to amy in generations is that it come at the expense of sonics character. For example the opening scene where amy is trying to hug sonic and sonic is holding her at arms length while he is talking being changed to a scene that looks like she is trying to get his attention to give him some cupcakes and he is ignoring her. Later on there is a scene where amy talks about being able to flirt with sonic after being rescued and sonic replies this isnt really the time for that in an exasperated voice. the new scene has amy talking about looking forward to being able to help sonic but does not change sonics response. this changes the tone of both scenes from sonic being exasperated to him being a jerk.
The problem with Amy is not that they toned down her obsession but it's they replaced it with nothing. Amy used to be the spunky young girl who is hell bent on getting the attention of Sonic, now she is just "the girl". I think this is more of a disservice to this character then even Sonic 06 making her obsession with Sonic psychotic. I think they totally could have kept her attitude while toning down but not completely shoving off the thing that defines her character.
Amy obsessively fauning over Sonic isn't really all that funny, but her offering cupcakes to him in such an awkward way (with him also just ignoring her completely) was not a good fix.
It's a double edged sword. If you change something in a remaster, then people would be like: "Why did you change this piece of dialogue or design, that makes me so mad." But if you keep something in, then you get something like: "Can't believe they kept that in, (whether it be something thats mildly inappropriate now that wasn't a few years ago, or just a broken peice of game that goes unchanged) that makes me so mad" There is no winning with remasters and remakes, there will always be something people will "wish" was different.
There are two reasons why i don't like the idea that things were changed in Generations: 1. I *extremely* despise the idea of rewriting history like this, especially in a game that's about restoring history, and in one with a counterpart game that has a plotpoint of "Please don't change the past no matter how much you want to". 2: The changes made are half-assed. Only like 3 cutscenes are actually changed, none of them to accommodate for the new dialogue. A good number of scenes require the voice actors to talk unnaturally quickly to avoid SA2ing themselves. I didn't want a cutscene that imply that Classic Sonic eats Angel Island. Either keep Sonic Generations the same as it was, or redo all the cutscenes. You can't do this awkward middleground and not expect fans to be set off by this. For the first time i agree with people who'd rather play with the japanese voices and i'm happy that's an option, i'll just stick to those this time until mods do something about the dialogue. Thank goodness this didn't bleed over to Shadow Generations somehow.
Yeah I was honestly *hoping* they'd rewrite the story the moment I heard there's gonna be a Generations remaster, since I always thought that was the weakest part of the game. (I didn't think they would delist the original game on stores and make this the only available version however.) But the execution is so half-assed, they barely changed anything and I don't really feel like the changes they did make are an improvement. I mean I like some of the changes, while I don't like others. Overall, I'm still just indifferent towards the story, so it's like nothing changed. I also find it amusing that they decided to spend dev time and resources to raise the cloth on Rouge's back by like 2 inches.
I say they should have redone all the cut scenes and the entire script. Sega of America could’ve invested their big budget into redoing all the cutscenes for Sonic Generations to showcase the following: -Amy knocking over Sonic and Tails when trying to hug Sonic after Amy tell Sonic that she wants to hug him. Then the three of them get up and Amy tells him not to back away because hugs aren’t necessarily romantic. -Amy, Cream, Rouge, and Blaze talking with Sonic in white space as many different cutscenes, not just when the player is in the hub world. Sega could’ve allowed Sonic Team to add more cutscenes too, like: -A sight of Tails and Amy with Modern Sonic exploring Sky Sanctuary, and then Amy and Sonic exploring Speed Highway and describing what they think of that stage. -Then there’s Cream the Rabbit who could’ve done something similar like this with the stage commentary starting with City Escape, where she realizes G.U.N. is a protection agency of Sonic’s world. Rouge could’ve done the same as Cream starting with Seaside Hill, and Blaze could’ve done the same starting with Rooftop Run. -What’s more is, Rouge, Blaze, and Amy could’ve taken it farther and kissed each other’s mouths as well as Sonic’s mouth, with Cream facing away from them. All because Sonic, Amy, Rouge, and Blaze could’ve had their private time for themselves to do share mouth kisses and decide to start romantic relationships with each other. And what sets me off most is that Shadow and Silver are uninterested in birthday parties, so the cutscene for when they join the party Modern Sonic’s friends should’ve been changed so that they clearly say they are uninterested in both his party and romance. Cream could’ve told Modern Sonic that he and the older girls should follow her to Vanilla’s house too. Blaze could’ve even showed Sonic and all the girls what Blaze’s world looked like, with Tails’ help for transporting. All these perfect cutscene additions and adding more voice overs could’ve improved the story further. I prayed that Sega would let the developers redo all these cutscenes to fit my wishes. But now what have I done that made Sega not allow all of that? Did I not tell them personally of my requests?
Something I don't quite get in regard to people complaining about the changes is that. . . didn't y'all agree that Generations' story was bad/boring? Why wouldn't you want changes to it? Also in regards to Amy I feel like her personality varies on the game. For instance in the Adventure era she's great. In games like Battle. . . she's kinda flanderized. Murder Of Sonic definetely shows Amy at her best and I'm looking forward to her next roles. I'm also pretty happy Sonic wasn't just casually shoving Amy's face in the opening. Felt really disrespectful to her.
I think it's less being upset about changes (though there are some that think changing anything is "rewriting history", which... I mean come on really), and more about the quality of said changes. Some of the changes are seen as worse than the original lines. I personally don't care that much either way. I'm not playing Generations for the story.
For people saying we're blowing the censorship out of proportion. Think of boiling the frog, letting any kind of censorship slide mean publishers will increase the censorship.
You don't know what censorship is. You're a manchild if you think changing Amy's bio or giving Rouge two more inches of fabric is censorship. Also it's definitely not "censorship" since you can still legally purchase the original game on Steam with the original content intact, with no legal or governmental bodies halting users from buying it.
That's not true. The frog jumps out of the pot regardless. It was a myth made up by some douchebag. ua-cam.com/video/WgIpdUR4Ac4/v-deo.html Anyway, here you go.
Yeah, it’s a matter of principle, not quantity. You let the American staff get too cozy ‘fixing’ whatever they want and you end up with 4kids and funimation.
Many of these changes feel like they were done to appease the most annoying Sonic fans. They removed nearly all the comedy from the game because people complained about the blue hedgehog series not taking itself completely seriously in its lighthearted anniversary game.
To be fair, it’s an anniversary game. References to past entry’s and lore focus seem appropriate. It’s a bit cheesy don’t get me wrong but I definitely prefer it to the original. I didn’t hate the original but sonic seemingly being ignorant to his own past was odd. Plus, the lack of reference to the fact he has time traveled was weird.
I am mixed about it. Due to the censorship was stupid... Give us the option to use the original vs. old dialogue as both sides would be happy... It's a 2011 game after all. So why not embrace an option to see old vs. new changes. Also this is the same game that rouge flashes robots for an ocean palace mission. So who are they are trying to convince that Rouge isn't sensual? I believe just make the alterations optional.
@@MaoRatto it’s not that she’s not sensual but she’s got more focus on her actual personality. I think the censorship is stupid too for the record. I just think it’s good to focus on that for once.
they practically censored all the jokes in the original. even the line where classic tails asks where sonic keeps his rings was changed to be about hoping the timeline would be fixed. amy smacking knuckles into the tree , sonic shoving amy with his hand and knuckles making classic sonic feel insecure about his weight were all funny and fit the light-hearted tone of the original. but post frontiers everything's gotta be all edgy and gloomy. generations was never meant to be taken seriously and the way amy acted here was inline with her characterization at the time , ever since CD all the way to unleashed. so why rewrite history in a game that's meant to celebrate it ? the small changes make the game lose it's charm and replaced it with very lame dialogue and cutscenes. being faithful to the original is a rule a remaster should NEVER break.
Wow you an idiot first off they made knuckles and Amy into a joke Second of all Generation story Is about all of time being destroyed Which is literally serious And make it into a joke is really idiotic like really You complain about frontier story being too dark Is the same people complain about dark Stories in sonic games like dude Touch grass also Remasters when they change something Either in dialogue Or design A subjective And being faithful Is never a good thing If the writing is bad like generations Original dialogue like really piss off With your idiotic take
Literally no one cared about the characterization in Generations and actively criticized it because it was in the heat of the era we juat escaped from with Frontiers. Refusing to change is how you remain medicore lol. That is absolutely not the golden rule of a remaster.
This is simply idotic, you think a game with stuff like the scenes of savings your friends and having a nice dialogue with them and reliving every stage which I remind you are bright and colorful and this whole premise being based around sonics fucking birthday, is dark and gloomy? Dude get a grip
My problem with Amy is that they completely retconed her. If frontiers had an Amy character arc where she realized that crushing over sonic all the time is not ok I would be completely fine with this, but she just suddenly magically doesn't love sonic constantly.
@@Gerbert67 I never said there was an arc for that nor do I think it was even needed, in frontiers we can clearly see that the main cast have really grown/matured and even had time to self reflect on themselves after the events in forces, and because they've matured i think its pretty clear that amy just naturally over time got rid of that crush she had over sonic, it's realistic that people can let go of their childish habits over time and the same thing has definitely happened to Amy, ever since generations we have started to see her sonic-crazy phase in games begin to slowly fade away, in my opinion we don't need an arc to show that's shes over him I feel like that's been clear for a while now, like seriously name one game after generations were she was obsessing or even harassing sonic.
I see that Sega still doesn't know how to explain Classic and Modern co-existence. They re-retconned that they are the same character on different time periods. I remember that Tails on Forces said that "other universe Sonic" or something like that.
The recon of them being from different worlds was the result of a mistranslation of the word world because in Japanese the word world can also refer to the past and present and even future so the people who speak a different language messed up when they wrote the story the creator of sonic ( who is Japanese ) just fixed this mistake .
this reference already felt off and out of place but I find this reference even weirder because logically you'd think he'd reference needing the chaos emeralds to time travel. I guess sega doesn't want to acknowledge the emeralds can also time travel...
10:35 true if you want to move forward with new stuff fine but covering up your mistake is not the way to go your a business regardless what you do you'll be viewed in a bad way
It's not that they're trying to ignore it, the old games, previous version of generation and every old piece of media that at include amy being an obsessed love crazed fan of Sonic is still there, but that's not how you do your characters in this day and age. why would they keep her like that if someone played frontiers and then generations they'll get tonal whiplash by the personalities, you need to grow up and realize they couldn't have kept her the same
@@jamesmcbayot I guess but in the end it doesn't matter if they chose to change it they chose to change it,it's not erasing anything it's trying to be better
As good as this version of Gens is the thing I’m most disappointed about is something they didn’t change I’m kind of sad that they didn’t add new levels to base Generations; while they DID add new stages in Shadow Generations so it’s not that big of a deal the only games after SG that were represented as levels were Forces and Frontiers, with Lost World, Mania, and Superstars not being there at all. Would’ve helped the game since Planet Wisp is still the last and still by far the least
7:43 ... And I don't see the problem with Amy being obsessed with Sonic. Her new personality from Forces is also cliché. I do prefer the old Amy. But well, the reality is that you people dont want female goofy characters. You want strong independent (and not sexy) female characters.
I don't feel strongly about the changes themselves. It's more just the act of altering and censoring stuff is something I dislike on principle. I'd much rather game devs leave older games alone, it feels kinda intrusive that they feel the need to rewrite and tweak things in a way to hide/rewrite the game's original image. Just feels ugly, I'd much rather they just didn't remake it if I had the option. But yeah, even though that's how I feel. I'd be lying if I said I was going to lose sleep over it, nor do I think it's gonna stop me from picking up the game (whenever it goes on sale).
@@Drydoctor-qo5wt To REmake the game and to keep it similar enough to not crap on people's nostalgia, which is what you are really marketing. When you start changing things that people notice and it isn't seen as being for the better, they will complain. REmake the physics, the level design, and FIX what was wrong with the game. Otherwise, leave it.
@@Drydoctor-qo5wt The way you have responded suggests you've already made up your mind. I can guess the way this argument would go if I partook in it, so I'll skip to the chase and say I agree to disagree now. If you wanna have an actual discussion with someone, try to phrase things more reasonably next time. I will not be responding to you again, so goodbye.
@@Agent_Ice0 The story and characterization IS what was wrong with Generations. Sonic and Tails should not be having amenisa about places they actively lived in. Fixing the script so that its in line with the games before the awful Meta Era and Frontiers is not a mistake it's a major boon. Sonic is NOT Mario, the Sonic series is supposed to care about it's characterization and continuity.
1:02 I disagree with this. It actually makes the games feel connected. Before every game felt like its own thing. Now it actually feels like past games do matter.
Honestly, this whole thing could've been mitigated if they had made the change gradual instead of basically retconing her. Had she had an epiphany similar to Dipper from Gravity Falls that you can't force people to love you, only try to be worthy of their love, then the change would have been fine.
She actually did have that revelation. In the comics, during an early arc before the Metal Virus, she mentions that she views Sonic as someone who has to run free on his own. She had some difficulty understanding that, but now she understands it. It'd be preferable if it was in a game. But it's still there, at least. Plus, if the comics are going to be canon, it's a good place for small character moments like this.
@@florntlaze810 You're not wrong there, but since she still flirts with Sonic in whitespace in this game, it's not as drastic of a change as people are pretending it is. If anything, it's a nice midway difference that could very well be the starting point people are asking for.
@mythosinfinite6736 The starting point is whatever game you begin playing. The characters' starting point (personality) is how they where on the canonical timeline; be it Adventure 1-2 Amy, Riders, 06, Lost World, Forces, etc. Retconning the past for the sake of "new" people is disingenuous of an "remaster" of THE go-to starting point game like generations where for many fans. Everyone has their own version of characters that they enjoy redoing them when you can't get the old version (on modern consoles, not steam with the bundle), is criminal, in my opinion.
@@florntlaze810 ...I respect your statement here, on its surface, but you've completely lost me if you want to genuinely argue that people really liked _Generations Amy._ I'm sure they exist, but, man. That's... Sure something.
I get why they want Rouge to be less overtly sensual, but it’s as if Sega is convinced that’s all there is to her personality. As a kid, her outfit never bothered me. Yeah, I thought she was pretty and understood how her making boys feel “in love” could help her get what she wants, but this definitely feels like a case of unnecessary censorship out of fear of the kinds of people they aren’t marketing to. Kids aren’t going to be doing weird things to a picture of Rouge just because her top allows her wings to properly stretch. Then again, in today’s messed up world, maybe they will. And that’s the saddest part of it. We can’t have attractive women in wholesome children’s media because their minds have long been exposed to things they shouldn’t.
If the game is supposed to celebrate the franchise the change to Amy is not good. She has spent more of her major appearances in games as Sonic obssessed. I dont think anyone would be that against toning it down but, nearly removing her main character trait is ridiculous. And for your SA2 example Shadow and Sonic look identical to the characters, its a major plot point for the first part of the story. Tbf, even sonic team seemed to forget this when writing the gag with silver in 06.
The problem with Amy now is that she isn't 110% anymore she's more 50% when it comes to her emotions. I prefer her old characterization because of it because it was a lot more entertaining to watch a hyperactive fan girl than a stoic woman who feels the need to say she's not a damsel in distress anymore. How about instead of saying it you follow Sonic's example (at least from before) where actions speak louder than words. You would thin Amy would be incredibly frustrated in frontiers for not being able to do anything but she just acts so damn stoic. Comparing Frontiers Amy to murder of the sonic the hedgehog Amy is like night and day. I still would like it if she crushes over sonic personally but at least keep her personality the same don't make her so boring. The change to her character didn't even really happen over time naturally either. Her love for sonic just kind of stopped without a good explanation. The smash bits sonic and shadow series had a better explanation for why Amy stopped liking sonic and that's supposed to be a parody for Christ sake.
This, so much this. I would like if they didn't tone down her crush (I mean, maybe don't push it as far as 06, sure, but she was fine in most of the games before and after) but that's really just a symptom of a bigger problem. If they wanna tone down the crush, Boom Amy and TMoStH shows how that could have worked without completely changing her personality. I see so many people claim "oh the only thing they changed was her intensity" or even saying her crush on Sonic was literally her only personality trait, but that's just not true. She was feisty, passionate, energetic, and yeah, a bit violent, in a comic-cartoony way. Some of that's still there to an extent, sure, but by and large this stoic, mother hen type girl that has to constantly state how she's strong and capable just. Isn't the same character. If people like this Amy, more power to them, I don't. I just hate this narrative that "she hasn't changed, she's just grown." No. Growth isn't getting ship-of-theseus'd into a different thing.
I personally hated how Amy was potrayed back then it she felt like a groupie to a boy band or the majority of Anime Girls who simp over the main male character. It's hard to look past her deeds while she was behaving like that. Though I do understand giving her an arc on how she shows restraint on her feelings towards Sonic.
Ppl do realize she had a character arc in Forces that warranted her development as a more serious character. The IDW comics proves this. She LITERALLY had to set aside a lot of her personal goals and stuff to fight AN ACTUAL WAR I swear sonic fans are the most intelligent yet retarded people in the planet...
That's what i've been saying! I don't care if her crush on Sonic gets toned down a little and she learns to respect his space a little more (or if that happens gradually throughout the games, that'd be nice). I just want her to have the fire and passion that she once had. They just kept the sympathetic/compassionate (which yes, is different from passionate) and kind parts of her personality and threw away everything else. They could've given us a more balanced and nuanced version of the Amy we knew and loved... But they didn't... Which is weird because in the comics and even in TMoSTH they managed to give us EXACTLY THAT.
I'm mixed on the cutscene changes. There's some that I actually like, and then there's some that make me question what the point was in even changing it.
My main issue with Amy is that it's not like they stopped making Amy loving Sonic her biggest personality trait. They straight up removed it. It wouldve been better if it was just simmered down rather than completely removed. The only thing remotely remembering her old self is NPC dialogue after you save her, but those werent changed in the remaster so it doesnt count. Amy loving Sonic was an important part of her and can be fun if its not overdone. Also, these are cartoon/anime hedgehogs, Amy slapping knuckles into a tree is just a quick gag that shouldnt have been taken so seriously. If anything it makes Amy loom WEAKER.
@@_rando_d Before sonic generations, there was barely any cartoon gags in the games. All of this funny "cartoon" stuff in the 2010s sonic games was because of the writers. This isn't mario.
@marnic0004 dude, this is still a kids series. Even the most serious Sonic games had their fair share of gags and jokes, and they go play the riders' games.
I was actually anticipating commentary about actual gameplay-related changes :o because the first thing I noticed when I started it up was the drop-dash now existed lol Little things feel "off" as I slowly grind back through the Sonic campaign, it almost feels like it has a little bit of added input lag too... Not a fan of Knuckles' new voice though, not that it's a big deal. I don't mind them toning-down Amy's obsessive personality toward Sonic; I never specifically cared about the "stories" or "character development" in the games, because it was never necessary, but it's nice to know they might try to make some main characters a little less one dimensional. I actually kinda liked what Archie did with Amy over the years, they made her a valid and valuable member of the crew. But she should definitely still stay very assertive and bombastic, I also like the idea that she's actually pretty damn strong behind the seemingly cute veneer.
It's just weird... especially when Generations is the reason that these locations became as frequently used as they are. The current "meta era" of Sonic was planted in Generations... but considering this was the first time many of these locations were being revisited, it would make sense for Sonic and Tails's memories of Green Hill and Chemical Plant to be foggy at best. Now, 13 years later, when these locations keep being reused, it makes sense for them to completely understand where they are. That's why it feels so weird for them to already know all this stuff and reference these things like they were yesterday.
While Chemical Plant wasn't reused (Tails should still remember because first adventure and born on Westside) Green Hill and South Island was, it's just that they weren't actively reused in the main series outside SA2. Both the Game Gear games and GBA have you go back to both South Island and even Green Hill. (among other places like Angel Island) Though with Green Hill they did at least try some variations despite the manual saying it's the same place in the Game Gear games. (like Ivo turning the place into metal)
I’m good without bat boobies lol. All jokes aside. I’ve always wanted to play Generations. I’ve only beaten the OG games, Forces and Mania. I think this game is fantastic. Edit: Also, I appreciate videos like this because it shows who’s pretending to know a fandom rather than actually being there for it. I also like that you’re extremely understanding about that. A lot of people can be toxic fanboys. Trust me I’m a huge Marvel and DC fan.
I love the fact the characters recall their older adventurers. It allows the world to feel lived in and expansive. It's not like it's truly important to the plot of frontiers or even the comics for that matter. Just charming dialogue to give nods to the fans of those eras.
Sonic is all about freedom. Shadow is all about embracing who you are and your roots even if the world hates you, not denying it and pretending the past never happened. Censorship is the antithesis to BOTH those things. So anyone trying to defend censorship is a faker of a Sonic fan, as far as I am concerned.
Or hear me out, it's the suffering of the way they made rouge and Amy back then, you can't have females act like Amy in the old games nowadays because that's a stupid way to write a female character. And everything anyone remembers of rouge is the fact that everyone calls her hot. They need to grow up and make them actual better characters.
Japanese and even Chinese gacha games that write and dress female characters similarly or even more intense are busy making bank, aren't they? So I would say that that is completely untrue. Especially when all the people that are "grown up" are dumping all their wallets to said games lol. Stop defending this, faker.
@samisnotmyname8865 You'll say that but then Japanese and Chinese gacha games with more intense characters will keep making bank in our modern year and going forward, won't they?
@@DrCoeloCephalo because they prey on the fools who like to throw away their money on virtual women. Even then how does that connect to what I'm saying? Last I remember I can't buy Amy or rogue to play as them in generations.
imo amy being overly obsessive towards sonic didn't diminish her character at all. I'd argue that it makes moments with her helping other characters stand out more, especially when she goes against sonic since he's the one she'd throw away the world for but she knows to correct sonic when he's wrong
I want everyone to remember this going forward with the hedgehog Engine two era You can't have a controversy Without being able to converse Not every controversy when it comes to sonic is a bad controversy, It might just be a conversation.
P.S. lowkey want to get pinned LOL also I'm not saying your (creator) usage of the word is bad or was wrong I just wanted to point that out to everyone because we sonic fans tend to argue about controversies rather than converse
alternatively, there's the 8-bit version of Sonic 2. Or, iirc, Sonic Chaos also taking place on South Island. (And given Fang made a comeback in Superstars, Triple Trouble has to be canon, and thus Sonic Chaos too by extension) Either way, Tails has to know Green Hill at least before Forces, given that game acts like every single area of greenery "in the world" is Green Hill.
There's also a fan theory that sonic and co went to so many places before that they basically forget some zones, which would explain why they didn't remember the zones in generations since most of the entire series happens in like, less than a year (just a thing we saw in a podcast with Ian flynn but these podcast aren't considered canon so whatever)
@@WohaoG That's just a fancy way of saying "we just pick and choose what we need to, or can, reuse from previous games for the new one". :P (aka it's more like "everything can be canon [except Archie and Chronicles because we don't want to deal with THAT guy again]")
Another point i don't see people bringing up: The original game came out almost 15 years ago. The remaster is shipping for new consoles AND is bundled with the really well made Shadow Generations. There are plenty of people who never got the original game and are only getting it now, especially people who were too young when the original released, or were simply not into Sonic yet. Most of the discussion around the changes act as though the average player has both copies on hand, on two TVs, comparing cutscenes simultaneously, while the reality is that most people either forgot these small details or are playing the game for the first time. These players deserve the best experience, and that's what i think Sonic Team was doing: making the changes they feel necessary for a modern sonic story. So less "pretending that never happened" and more "not doing that going forward", because at the end of the day, the remaster is still a new product that people pay real money for
Thank you. Having played Sonic since the Genesis days and putting over 100 hours into Generations, even I don't care that much about this dialogue stuff. It's not like they are completely changing the motivations of characters or rewriting the story - they are simply updating some of the writing to be more consistent with modern Sonic.
for frontiers, lots of the references seem like lore-related things, or out-side of the story, aside from the ones mentioned within the actual story. The eggman memos? lore things, Sonic mentioning them on his own as some lone monologue? basically the same as memos but actively. for generations, the slight changes are both good and bad, sonic talking? good, them remembering the past? good the knuckles, talk change, the amy not being pushed back or not hitting knuckles hard enough for the comedy, rouge's censorship. The fact you mention the good qualities of amy just shows that she was fine as she was, people hyper focus on her simping over sonic, and forgo the fact that when she has to take a stand, she would, there are literally many characters that are a certain way in general, and act differently towards a character, amy is that. She will be obnoxiously trying to get sonic to like her but when something happens and she has to be more serious she would be. She is the Brock of the crew, just a faithful one towards one character.
I'm personally in the "I don't mind changes, but don't pretend it didn't happend" camp. What annoys me the most about this "Oh, it was just a phase" approach to Amy, is that this way Amy was robed of character growth where she could realize that her obsesion actualy alienates Sonic from her, so she tones it down so she can spend more time with him.(or something like that) Not to mention, that way, both the SonAmy camp and the "Amys obsetsion is anoying" camp can win.
Yeah... of all the things to bitch about, why would serious Sonic fans bitch about Sonic referencing Sonic shit? What, did it get in the way of the constant self deprication? I love it personally. I get where it could come across as too Marvel esq... but as much as the stories have just been shitting on themselves, ANYTHING is better. Plus it lets me know that the developers are looking into stuff that we Sonic fans love so dearly.
I’m in a camp that likes some of the changes, and doesn’t mind others but does feel they didn’t need to be changed. I definitely agree I find the references charming, since it does make the world feel more cohesive and like these adventures still, you know, actually happened. Rather than being some one off thing nobody ever talks about. And I do prefer Amy’s new writing, since the crush is still there, but now she feels like she’s had character development and her crush is less obsessive. Like, those cupcakes she holds for him are pink and blue- and if you need to know why that’s relevant… look at Amy and Sonic’s fur. Or how her changed dialogue with Classic Sonic has her say she’s always found Sonic cute. She doesn’t need a bright neon sign advertising she’s in love with him, though I should be clear, they could probably strike a better balance for people who like that side of Amy.
I think that Ian Flynn addressed the "Classic Sonic eating Angel Island" issue. Apparently, he could only rewrite the dialogue, the people in charge of the animations couldn't reanimate the models.
Knuckles' line being unchanged implies something... interesting, and really a sign that something more should've been changed for that new dialogue to work properly
4:15 I agree, especially with how so many elements are one offs and it can be difficult to tell what's theain canon and what isn't when focusing on just the games only, cus who has time to dive into every kind of media and know if something is a side story or a mainline story? Hearing Sonic mention Jet makes me glad cus I like Team Babylon but wasn't sure if they were considered mainline canon (even though they had multiple games) since they never appeared outside of Riders, nor does their lore appear in other media unless you take similarities to make a theory and multiple hypotheticals. But they're just that: ruminations of the plausible with no concrete evidence to falsify them
For those saying the Censorship didn't matter. (And remember. the slippery slope isn't a falacy. It's a rule.) All I have to ask is: Which way Sonic fan? The Sonic X Sub or the 4Kids Dub?
The Sonic X Sub every day, but not for the sake of seeing Rouge uncensored (I was interested in seeing what was cut, and seeing the cut content made me feel that much more invested, like the Molly event, the uncut fight with Yellow Zelkova, Shadow needing to remove his limiters to fight Knuckles, etc.). I'm not that pressed about her being more covered up (especially after Sonic Prime's outfit, this feels a little less egregious), but I do understand where you're coming from about it and hope that the design's aren't altered any further
Im hovering somewhere between indifferent and like it camp. If anything it just reaffirms what their status quo going forward with these characters are after their soft "not reboot" reboot in Frontiers.
oh boy can’t wait for every interaction and conversation to become a nothing conversation referencing a past event instead of getting more insights on the characters
I think the original lines had a subtext that because they are delaing with the time eater, Sonic and Tails' memories have holes in them. Like sure Tails might not know Green Hills zone because he wasn't there, but not remmbering Chemical Plant seemed super odd, ESPEICALLY with him feeling nervous about the purple water. To me that says his memory is altered because of the events of Generations, but his body remembers the unease the dangerous purple water caused. And as they restore certain areas their memories get fixed. Since that was either a subplot they didnt mean to make or dropped, the remaster's lines made it clear that not only are their memories intact, but that they remember all the different aspects of their adventures. Like I as a fan of Sonic since SOnic 2 came out, never knew what south side island was. SO hearing Tails explain Green Hills was on south island was a fun bit of lore for me to pick up on finally
Personally I really like the dialog changes. Originally I ended up skipping some of the old generations dialog because it felt too cringe. But now I quite enjoy it 🙂The only dialog change I miss is Tails saying "that pink water makes me nervous for some reason" because of how many people drowned on that part of the stage originally 😄 It's a cute meta joke. But no big loss. The game is still too expensive for me so it was nice to get your take on the changes and learn whats causing all this division I'm hearing about 😄
Yeah and now When we have Knuckles talking with Sonic he says "Where is my island?" While the animation never changes It looks funny as hell like he ate Angel Island It's so stupid lol
Changing amy from what it was to what it is now to portray how she acts nowadays in the modern games is bad since generations came out like 13 years ago. Sega acts like its the first time generations got released. You can't just change the past like that.
When the past was so goddamn ridiculous about it? Yea, no, I'll take the change, thanks. Maybe a "legacy cutscenes" option would've been nice, but Amy in og Gens's cutscenes borders on insufferable imo, and that's saying something considering how few screentime most of the cast gets in this game.
People were unhappy about Knuckles being disrespected, but now that they changed that, people are complaining because you can't change bad things to be good, apparently??? If something is of such little significance such as Generation's story, nothing is lost by rewriting it
I agree; a remaster is not supposed to retcon, it's supposed to allow a new generation to enjoy an old game that they missed the first time around. Now there are two competing versions of a game that will only stir controversy and confusion for years to come. If the integrity of these old games can't be respected, it's best to not revisit them at all.
@@yay29823 Well, the point is that, if they are of such little significance, then just leave them alone. Remasters are not meant to change characters and storylines, they're just supposed to be passive updates to allow newbies to enjoy an old game.
@yay29823 Nobody was complaining about Knuckles being disrespected, you wanna know why? It was because he never was in 2011. Nobody considered him dumb at the release of generations (2011) him being disrespected wasn't even a thing for fans to worry about at the time. The closest you could get out of the fandom was when Knuckles couldn't catch the card thrown at him in a Sonic 06 cutscene because of his glove hands. The fans started to say he was disrespected in 2014 with the announcement and release of Sonic Boom, which reduced him to nothing but a big dumb muscle headed brute. So this is future retconning for no legitimate reason and should have never been changed (the tree cutscene with Amy). My opinion on Amy is that she shouldn't get future character development for a game that canonically takes place in the past before SAID character development arc happened in the first place; otherwise it completely invalidates the point of the arc to happen in the first place for a game that released at a future point (Sonic Frontiers).
4:10 Because Sonic games since colors or Unleashed are very well known for their world building (lol) I think the last time world building, continuity, or consistency was even a consideration (before Frontiers and SxS Gen) was Sonic 06 Although I do agree with how they did Amy, changing some lines around to make them make more sense from a character standpoint is ok (great imo) but changing character personality traits? I don't agree with that as much but I do agree with how they are changing Amy going forward. I also agree anyone complaining or caring too much about these changes needs a life (myself included) But I am glad they're getting Ian Flynn creative leading on writing cause he's been the GOAT when it comes to it since he started with Archie, he's an actual fan of the series and has much more respect for the franchise as a whole (more then SEGA imo) dudes a real one.
O wow the sonic fan that wrote the script referenced events in the past, thereby making the modern era feel more connected to the series as a whole. And they gave amy self respect. Yep the sonic fans are definitely gonna hate that one
Ignore the fat joke being removed I guess. No one complained about these before… so it says many words seeing it changed randomly. These companies hire ppl who look for stuff that might be controversial. Same boat as those DEI people. Then when said company adjusts.. they just look for even more stuff to change. So they can validate their ‘work’
@@Shendapyit says nothing beyond being a simple fat joke that doesn't matter, if a fat joke being removed makes you start spewing about DEI and controversial decisions then you are very sensitive person who needs to get over yourself.
My issues come down to: Censorship is bad, period. I dont care if its small. Nothing in the original Generations was offensive. Literally NOBODY was offended by anything in these games. Its a E rated game. And we've reached the point where we are censoring E rated content. Its pathetic, unnecessary, and unwanted. And two: Amy has NO character now. You can argue her entire character used to be nothing more than Sonic obsession and fangirling, but it was character. Now, she has NOTHING going for her. No personality, nothing memorable about her. She's just... there.
First off you an idiot Rouge was not censored like really It’s The same design as her sonic battle Design Second of all, Amy does have a character You certainly do not pay attention all like really you sir are an idiot like really Censorship In generations does not exist at all And if you do think it does you sir Do not understand the word at all
First off There’s no such thing as Censorship In sonic generations like I wonder if you People have paying attention to the game like really Do I have to remind you of blaze Remembering Crisis city Even though that makes no sense at all Second of all, all of time is being destroyed And the characters are making jokes about it Is really idiotic and dumb like also Amy In sonic X shadow generations Dose have a Character Which you refuse to pay attention To the game at all like really People complain about censorship Which Does not exist in the game itself Will complain and whine about it also Knuckles Cares about his island More than sonic own Appearance like really dude piss Off with your BS Censorship stance Knowing That’s the game designers’s own choice And not so Weird bogeyman Conspiracy
@@supergamerboy1177 First off, you claim there’s “no censorship” in Sonic Generations. Really? Then please explain Rouge’s redesigned outfit, toned down for absolutely no reason other than some bizarre need to appease a non-existent offended audience. Her character has been nerfed visually to the point of looking like a discount knockoff. And it’s not just Generations-Rouge’s entire design has been sanitized game after game, sacrificing her original charm to the censorship police. Second, Blaze’s Crisis City memory? Yeah, it’s there, but you know what it doesn’t do? Add anything coherent. It’s not an argument against censorship; it’s lazy storytelling. If anything, it’s proof the writers had to be selective with which parts of the Sonic lore they even bothered to make sense of. So, try again. And your take on Amy’s character? You’re seriously trying to argue that Amy has depth here? She's been reduced to a hollow echo of her former self. Sure, she wasn’t breaking new ground as Sonic’s number one fangirl, but at least she had an identifiable personality back then. Now, she’s been relegated to background status with a personality as dynamic as a loading screen. Amy used to be memorable, and now she’s practically an NPC. As for Knuckles, congratulations on pointing out his loyalty to Angel Island-a fact we all know. It’s literally his only shtick at this point, reduced to a single-trait character whose personality was way more nuanced back in the day. But go ahead, pretend that caring about a rock 24/7 makes him complex while Sonic’s entire design is getting scrubbed down to avoid offending absolutely nobody. Lastly, that nonsense about it being the “designers’ choice”-this isn’t about some imagined “bogeyman conspiracy.” This is about a series that has continually watered itself down, robbing fans of the Sonic they actually want to see. Just because the designers signed off on it doesn’t make it right or, frankly, a good decision. So let’s wrap this up: The censorship is real, the characters have been reduced to half of their former selves, and it’s not the fans whining-it’s the developers, once again, not respecting the audience or the original designs that made Sonic legendary in the first place.
Since it was brought up, I'mma focus on it: Changing Rouge's design actually says a lot more about those looking at the design than the design itself. As it was before it was fine, while changing it means people are bothered by there being any level of revealed cleavage and back, meaning they're stating they get thoughts about it and are bothered by those thoughts instead of just not caring in the first place about some cartoon bat. Or they're bothered by other people getting thoughts about it and they don't want that either, which as well raises the question of why do you care about someone else's imagination? And if the idea is that this is somehow inappropriate for kids to see, it's just cleavage, women have those. Do you need to protect kids from seeing women? Do you need to prevent kids from ever going to swimming places? Either way the response to the design is what says a whole lot more about people than the design itself, because as the design was there was no issue. It's rarely about the design and more about the response to the design itself. And about the main topic of the new dialogue: While some of the references make sense, at times the dialogue ends up way more dry because of it. Tails commenting about the water in Chemical Plant is a reference to people struggling in the water sections of those levels. So maybe it could've been changed to make him comment about how could he ever forget that weird water of the Chemical Plant or something. That way both the reference and the joke remain intact.
Exactly, it also makes no sense to censor it because it was already a CHILDREN'S game. What does that say about the fans it was already considered child friendly in 2011, so what exactly changed between then and now. All they did was make Rouge's wings make no sense for her clothes and remove her cleavage that kids should be too young to even find sexual in the first place; have they ever visited a pool when they were younger, I sure did it was never considered weird. People complained about 4kids censorship within Sonic X (anime) for the same character. But for some reason, they all support similar censorship now. Did Sonic fans lose their backbone? Recency bias? What happened? Tl;Dr: Games used to rely on childhood innocents. Now, they try to account for adults finding sexual gratification for non sexual things, thus censoring the game Rouge's UPPER!!! back (not even her lower back, smh). For example: it was already certified as a kids game in 2011, and it wasn't rated T for Teen. So what exactly changed between then and now?
And on top of that Rouge is meant to be sexy (for an anthropomorphic cartoon bat). It’s a fundamental character trait: she flirts, she teases, she’s… not a femme fatale exactly, but she’s something similar. In SA2 she flirts with and teases Knuckles, and one of his stage themes outright say she’s sexy. It’s an intentional part of her character, and it’s disrespectful to take it away. I love Rouge, and the censorship does more than just ruin a few gooners’ day.
I haven't played generations or frontiers yet, but I did really like it when I found out Sticks (my favorite Sonic Boom character) got referenced in Frontiers
I like the changes, they give a new twist on an already brilliant game, a big improvement is modern Sonic actually speaks when he saves each friend, instead of just staying silent.
I love that the game was so good that the best thing people had to argue about was some slightly modified dialogue and a model update on a side character.
One thing I did like with the rewrite was that characters were written and acted consistently with where the game takes place. For example, Knuckles's lines and tone of voice more closely match Lost World, the game canonically right after Gemerations. Instead of say making him in line with how Forces and Fronteries portrayed him.
Can we talk about how off the voice acting in the "remaster" sounds? I'm not even arguing for bringing back the actors who were recast since Gens. Even the returning actors sound like they've just been crowded into a booth and told to just do it one take. Even redubbed lines from the same actors now somehow sound wrong. Colleen O'Shaughnessey is now voicing three roles (even if two of them ARE different versions of Tails), and she seems to have forgotten her voice for Charmy.
I think it's more they have gotten older with there voices in tow and now they need to bring back the same energy they did back then. I know there are a few voice actors that can but I don't think a lot of the cast here can and for the new voices... it's probably still 'new voice is problem' thinking where we are just not use to them.
@cmguiyyt816 they are good voice actors but times have changed. Roger sounds like he's trying to impersonat his younger self and failing to do so that's what I'm getting at with the returning voices while the new one just simply either hasn't found there mojo or we are just not use to them.
@rossjones8656 Yeah no, Roger can do his old Sonic voice to a T and ain't failing at all. As for the new guys, it is 100% you not being used to them. And you alone as many others have said they either like or are fine with them.
I feel the rewrite allowing Sonic and Tails remembering Green Hill and Chemical Plant is because of Forces. Even if Forces is after gens, it means Sonic and Tails do return to south and west side island often
Has kiro heard that Sonic X Shadow Generations web manual bio for Classic Sonic states that he comes from "Different Dimension"? Oh boy the ride never ends.
5:26
Knuckles: where is my island?
Suspiciously Island shaped sonic:
man your comment made me laugh a good amount, thank you so much
I ask that you never comment again on Sonics shape
my first reaction to when knuckles said that and sonic rubbed his stomach was me shouting "HE ATE THE FUCKING ISLAND?!" so I can relate to this comment XD
pregnant sonic
@@MazdaDorito shut up
So basically in this wonderful rewrite it seems like classic sonic ate knuckles' island because he awkwardly touches his belly after knuckles asks about the island...
Sometimes you just so hungry you accidentally eat a whole island. We've all been there.
Classic Sonic is like: I thought it was cake!
no he ate the grapes
Suspiciously Angel Island shaped Sonic
That's what it looks like yeah lol
1:45 The original take actually worked better as an in-joke. Tails wouldn't recognize Green Hill, because he's never been to Green Hill. The game he debuted in had Emerald Hill.
Well technically tails was in greenhill in sonic advance
@@iomar224 either way, the whole reason it’s written that way, to subtly reference the fact that tails wasn’t in sonic 1 and debuted in sonic 2, gets lost for a blatant, finger-point lore reference
@@iomar224 or in Sonic Mania if we are going with the past and present theory
@@sinkaido You mean hollow dilog that all of us in the press panned at the time leading to the mixed reviews... That they fixed with the new diolog... Like serouly it like Mario not rebering SMB 85 1-1 in SMB wonder or odseey... Which green hill zone is way more imfluncal on the entire IP then 1-1 was for mario... Like I can't think of any sonic game that didn't start with a Green hill zone like stage... I can think of plenty of mario games that don';t start with anything related to 1-1... Also like what was so special about the dilog in the first version anyway? Like if genraions had a world with out sonic plot and sonic has to retrace his steeps thoughout his impact on gaming history sure... But that ins't the plot is it? It's based on new and Classic sonic getting together on an epic advature thoughout thair games! So yeah i'd expact the character to know their past that is tghe wghole idea of the pplot!
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough changing a subtle reference for an obvious one only serves to make the dialogue more hollow. Ur talking abt “the press” (which u really mean the sonic community) but like… those are the exact same people who are saying the new lines are worse… . Also Mario doesn’t even mention those levels in new games, and in their lore it already has a name: the mushroom kingdom.
Also there are many Sonic games without green hill levels: in fact that’s only a trait consistent on the genesis era games. Ever since he made the jump to 3D the only time we’ve gotten close to green hill was this game and lost worlds; adventure started with a beach, adventure 2 with city escape, etc.. in fact, as a result, u can argue that Tails has never even been to green hill zone.
The reason why the line worked better at first was because it isn’t in ur face. The new one feels cheap, meant for new fans and is too in ur face for old fans. With the old line, it’s more of a clever way to make fans feel good abt sticking w the franchise for so long; the way it’s written makes it feel like a small nod meant only for ppl who’d understand why tails is talking like that. U don’t get that same special feeling from the new lines.
Also the old lines work perfectly fine. The fact that they feel Deja vu is enough proof that they actually were in those locations and have some memory of them, although faint. That + the way the references were handled were perfectly fine, which is why these changes feel cheap, confusing, and detractive
About Amy:
The cutscenes were changed, but her dialogues in the white space still include her flirting
no it is changed
@@Super70000
Have you tried talking to her right after the cutscene? None of the dialogues of the characters outside of the cutscenes has been changed.
@@Raincloud5137 oh i thought you meant the cutscene after you rescue her my bad
Yet anti woke Grifters complain about Amy not loving Sonic.
Is that line about her saying her “teamwork leads to marriage, wait sonic come back” still there I just recently found out about it , man they did Amy so dirty in og gens , I’m happy they changed it but it shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place
I think why they referenced stuff in frontiers is since the timeline got shat on and no one knew what was canon and not, so they decided to throw in references to older sonic games so people could know what was canon or not
the actual reason frontiers is full of references is that the previous writers were very unfamiliar with sonic and did not care, so ian flynn really wanted us to know he is and does
@@DracoHandsome huh that sounds alot more reasonable than my theory
Every 3d sonic is canon and the 2d sonic games kinda happened in another universe and that‘s it for me. Everything before Adventure non canon everything after adventure canon. except Boom, Boom just didn’t happen don‘t know what that is
So the IDW comics ARE canon then?
@lenz7809 i guess?
Well im not sure of it tho
2:27 I would like to add that Sonic does canonically recognize Green Hill. We all know the infamous line in Sonic Forces "Green Hill is looking a lot more like Sand Hill right now"
What does that prove, just cause he remembers it later doesn't mean he remembers it at the time of Gens.
There's also Sonic Prime, which shows Sonic sees Green Hill as a really important place. It's not his home but it's a place he likes to visit a lot.
As much as I dislike Prime being canon, it should at least be considered.
I doubt Sonic randomly started to appreciate and hang out in Green Hill after Generations. It was probably an ongoing thing.
Look at it from the perspective of when the game came out, Green Hill only appeared in spin-offs like racing games, the only main games that featured it we're Sonic 1, Adventure 2, and Generations
@DaNintendude Prime isn't canon nor should it be as Sonic has a different characterization there and Sonic hanging out in Green Hill after Gens isn't random and could've totally happened. He probably did find it really nice and started hanging out there more after Gens, it isn't anymore random then him deciding to hang out in any other zone.
@Crump-I6x Prime _is_ canon.
I wouldn't like it to be, and I agree about characterization, but it's been stated to be canon.
With that being said, there actually _is_ evidence that Sonic is more familiar with Green Hill than we'd believe.
Note how at the beginning of Sonic Generations, Classic Sonic is running through Green Hill Zone. It's possible that he was ripped straight from the events of Sonic 1, but based on Sonic's familiarity with Robotnik and Classic Tails, that moment would've at least been after Sonic 2.
This means that Sonic has indeed returned to Green Hill outside of Sonic 1.
This might sound nit picky, but I liked how the original Generations didn't show Classic Eggman until the end of the game. That way it keeps the surprise that the 2 Eggmen are working together by making you think there was only one Eggman.
He was in the Death Egg Robot boss fight
@TheCrazyIdiot5507it didn’t show it
Nah, I agree. I would have preferred to keep the other Eggman (Robotnik) a secret.
well really the twist was he was seemingly kidnapped after that boss fight, when the reality was he and eggman were working together
(hell the fact eggman is actually the big bad is also a twist, as nothing suggested the time eater was one of his inventions until the literal reveal prior to the final boss battle)
@TheRealNightFall666wouldnt it be obvious though? If sonic and tails have a younger version of themselves helping out why wouldn't the big bad also have one?
The funny thing is that the only changes made to the Japanese version besides the visual changes are Sonic's additional lines after saving his friends. Other than that, no changes were made to the script.
Man, if only I understood Japanese so I wouldn’t have be stuck in the Ian Flynn rabbit hole.
@@Hewasnumber1vomp vomp vomp, deal with it.
@@FandomExpert1970s No.
@@Hewasnumber1 There's this person named Windii who translates the Japanese side of Sonic into English. You could go for that.
So a bad dub job? just like Ranma 1 1/2 I guess.
"and that pink water makes me really nervous" now THAT'S how you do a call back. not even just to Sonic 2, but to the feeling of hearing that Drowning jingle lol
To be fair, the writing and writers of the original dialogue were criticized for openly stating they barely knew anything about Sonic. Having a person who closely follows the series do the rewrites might not be too bad.
@@Xxx-pk3vi It is.
@@angeihd how is it bad?
@@danalynch118
Because it leads to the obscene naval-gazing the series is now struggling with. Never allow fanboys to steer the ship of a franchise, because they're incapable of being anything but derivative. You can have someone who RESPECTS the series that they write about, but an out and out fanboy will never be a good thing.
@@felixdaniels37 No? When you have people who know and love the franchise it goes better. Sonic mania is a peak example of this. P06 too. Someone who knows the series should always be allowed
This game's remake is like gaslighting yourself that you were a better person in the past than you actually were
This is so freaking accurate to all the 2010s games...
Only year I miss from the 2010s is 2010 itself, it really felt like we were slowly entering a new era with the rise of Smartphones and Social Media, some video games would play it safe by doing nostalgia pandering and I think it’s from the success of Megaman 9.
@@brandonwilliams6119 I formed my first thoughts in 2010 (I was 4). More seriously my favorite year in the 2010's is 2015, we got Undertale this year, FNAF the year before and dragon ball super anime was at its peak.
Yes because showing rouge back and having Amy hug sonic, is bad
@@Christian-gr3guIt's still unnecessary censorship
5:20 he ate Angel Island 💀
he eated it
Inhale the whole thing
Light snack for Sonic.
Shin sonic
Only the dialogue was changed, not be animation at the original dialogue was knuckles saying
"have you gotten fatter?"
Honestly only change that bums me out is that Knuckles doesn't get sent flying because Strong Amy will always be my favorite Amy
I think the aim there was to make Knuckles not look weak, not to downplay Amy's strength
Probably biased tho cuz I'm a Knuckles fan
@@Kutomi1 I'm not a Knuckles fan but I agree. If you make Amy suddenly strongarmed then it kinda downplays Knux being the muscle one. It also ends up making him look dumber than he is, because if Amy really was that strong, shouldn't he be amongst the few people to know that already?
@@Kutomi1finally, someone who actually gets it and knows why they stayed faithful to strength
That’s the worst downgrade change ever, also Sonic not holding Amy by the face was so cute and goofy, SXSG is so soulless and sanitized of the funny moments of the original.
@@Stickboy321Gono
The weirdest part is that these changes are ONLY in the English script. Makes me wonder what’s the deal on the American side of things. Also I think we’re putting too much agency on Ian Flynn, I don’t buy that he has the power to alter characterisation or designs - I’m pretty sure it was an executive decision based on some bogus focus test or market research or another.
There are few reasons why the dialogue feels like a downgrade at least to me:
- They didn't change much of the animations or lipsyncing for the times they spoke in the OG game
- The changed lines are either too wordy, or too less of dialogue to fit in (example: ending cutscene when modern and classic sonic and the ending cutscene).This causes their body language to be conlicted with their actual words.
- The voice direction overall just feels lifeless and fake. Not alot of energy to their lines (Since it's been a decade since Generations so no shit lol)
I'd say the ONLY real improvement in terms of dialogue was letting modern sonic speak after he's saved each of his friends.
For refrences...
While cool at first, feel too forced at times. I think the original did better in just ALLUDING to it, rather than just putting it infront of your face.
Like for example: In OG Gens, Tails says after completing Modern Chemical Plant, that the pink water makes him nervous.
If you have played sonic 2 you would understand why since tails always gets left behind, and it's worse for him when you get to the infamous water climb section.
The rewrite was worse, since it feels more cheap imo.
Also the connection between the two stories feels VERY half-baked, which I'm sorry...
Shouldn't THAT be the focus when it came to rewriting the story???
Instead in comparison, they focused more on trivial things like how Amy Rose's character is shown, or silver having a chillidog at the ending cutscene (which is obviosuly not finished like everything else with the cutscenes)
They did all of these little changes, and didn't do anything for one of the most boring final bosses in sonic history???
Especially when you have the final boss of Shadow Gens in the SAME PACKAGE???
It just shows that so much more time went into the Shadow portion than having BOTH games be worked on at equal value.
@@LolipooChimichangaCouldn't agree with you more
@@LolipooChimichanga and that's what makes me so upset about the two stories is that they don't connect outside of the Sonic and Shadow interaction
I completely disagree with your third point. Listening to both the original and new voice lines, I think the voice direction is pretty much the exact same as in the original
Amy should’ve been kept the same because in frontiers it now shows how much she’s matured and is more chill. I don’t think she should always seem that way before frontiers
Amy may have regressed in Generations from Unleashed. In the end of that game, Amy's able to successfully ask Sonic out on a date, and then Black Knight happens, making Amy assume Sonic stood her up.
I've been saying that too, but it's seems to be like this detail keep getting overlooked or ignored. It's just like since its toned down who cares if it lessens her character development. Frontiers Amy has loss that growth she's got to tone down her affection and be gradual with it, to mature.
The Rouge back covering is bad redesign and strangely unnecessary but 2024 am I right?
@@thebluewind5733 Yh some of the changes are very strange and unnecessary. The time spent fixing things that didn't need to be fixed could've been put into other stuff
@@thebluewind5733tbf it does seem like Sega is trying to put the same lid on for the most part on everyone's characterisation of the 2010's while going back to the time where they were written as more mature (works even better as their audience is getting older despite everything) in the early 2000, who had terrible game like 06, but generally better stories (if we forget Shadow 05 whose story is terrible solely because lack of proper continuity with Heroes the over edgy story and multiple stories none of whom are the true one).
Its a mood for sure but even if it was badly done in Sonic Generation remake its not like Amy was always represented as a Sonic Simp, even by the time of Generation, she had her own character devellopement, opposed Sonic at one point for legitimate reason and her kind nature shined best in stuff like SA2 where she singlehandedly saved the world by convincing Shadow to actually think for a minute about what Maria really wanted and hell Shadow 05 too i believe?
Granted Heroes was in the middle of that and a mess for her character if memories serves right.
But all that to say that ultimately Sega could still make her more mature in Generation while she retained her obsession for Sonic and it still wouldnt hurt her devellopement in Frontiers where she wishes to actively seek her own path.
They just half assed the entire thing though so it truly didnt do it any favor haha.
Easier to work with the most mature story of their universe which is Shadow's backstory to give a mature mood than work maturity in a story that didnt take itself all that seriously originally
@Freedmoon44
Indeed, like I said, it's not a deal breaker, but I feel editing some of what Gens delivered was warranted but the Amy and Knuckles lines are not good edits and is a product of overcorrecting what was fine.
I feel that Colors and Gens were the better of the Pontac and Graff mess of storytelling. (Believe me I did not like most of their writing.)
Heck even I can say Amy had character whiplash during the 2000s.
I just think they could've worked with it like the Tails inconsistent characterization is all.
Sega is literally time eater 😭
Remember Sage from Frontiers? Her name is anagram of Sega as well
@@brandonwilliams6119Has been for ages.
@@CptJistuce I see what you did there
@@Pumpkinator683 BEING THIS GOOD TAKES AGES
You’re not wrong, yakuza games have like 3 months of playtime on me lmao
They removed "you and what mustache" joke
What?? Why??
I think people are upset that the dialogue had to be changed to begin with. It's like the Star Wars special edition changes and the "Han shot first" debacle. Feels like it's erasing the past to fit with the current state of the franchise, irrespective on whether individual changes are good or bad.
I am really glad someone else thought of this too. Atleast the level of gaslighting in characterization isn't as bad as seen in Toy Story 4
I'd be fine with them retconing stuff from previous titles in rereleases if sonic was an actually consistent franchise with a clear direction, but as it stands litterally every game tries to do something different and doesn't care much about what the previous games actually were like, I'm sure next time they rerelease generation it's going to slightly different again
@@brdgamemaster The idea that a literal toddler would forever keep the promise of playing with a tow cowboy because some college kid told her to do it was always dumb
Nope. The biggest change was making Amy less of a creep and I don’t see why that’s bad
@@danalynch118 your comment is uselessly contrarian, explain what you said "nope" to, what argument that one of us here did do you think you're refuting with the rest of your comment?
to simplify my comment: you're just talking to yourself and not adding anything to the conversation
Swear the Sonic Fanbase are so freakin divisive 🤣
Yeah seems like that will always be the case 😅
Any little change and they split up like the Earth in Unleashed.
it's usually a vocal minority tbh. like, in any fanbase. if you hear about people online complaining about something, it's probably not nearly as many people as you think, the ones complaining are just really noisy about it
and literally for what reason, we got a good ass sonic game, cry about it i guess 😂
just like every other gaming franchise of course its divisive people have their own opinions
9:49 I think that change was in response to the backlash against Knuckles looking dumber over time.
0:23 Rouge's new suit design makes me wonder how she puts it on with her wings in the way.
Also I wonder how would anyone find a Bareback Sexual, because they censored that part of her, yet Amy still has her bareback
Certain subreddits would make you think otherwise
Well remember her ninja suit in Sonic X which doesn’t have her bareback?
Rouge probably must have some holes so her wings will fit and they’ll make her feel comfortable for her to fly,
But you have to know she’s not a playable character like in the original.
Remember she was covered up in Sonic Prime.
@@brandonwilliams6119 Well... A bare back CAN be sexual. Almost everything can if you put enough effort into it.. Or if you have the right perspective for it.
And there's no denying that sexual appeal was part of her design... Which, tbh, i don't see a problem with that either... But that's the thing: it was only PART of her appeal (in terms of design), the other is the visual theming of a spy and her archetype as a femme fatale.
It's just odd that they did this at all because it contradicts the idea behind her design. She IS supposed to look more mature than the other characters, and she IS supposed to look seductive because not only does it fit into the archetype; it's part of her job as a spy to use her looks to manipulate others and make it so she doesn't look dangerous at first glance.
Zippers or buttons probable.
Fun fact about the Sonic monologue lines in Frontiers: They will only happen if Sonic does not enter a combat sequence, a Cyber Space stage, a boss fight, or interacts with a puzzle for at least 10 minutes (might also include platforming segments but I am unsure). If you somehow managed to do that and still didn't get one, it's also because collecting a ring resets the timer. Yeah.
No idea why they wanted to make getting these lines so hard, but there's a mod for the PC version that makes them trigger from either every 35 seconds to 2 minutes regardless of what you do.
The main issue i have with the rouge change is practicality. Her new outfit makes no sense. how is she supposed to put it on when her wings would get in the way. thats what i always thought was the reason she wore open back clothing to accommodate her wings
I felt similar at first, but then I remembered that these games had never been practical. Rouge wears a full jumpsuit in Sonic Heroes, and her back is covered. Tails shouldn't be able to fly with his tails like helicopter propellers because they would just get twisted at the base.
@@Burgerbro7117 Mental gymnastics to justify 4Kidz-level Censorship. Ew.
@@Burgerbro7117 admittedly the tails thing did bother me after i realised that as well but outside of things like that that dont have a workaround they really should try and keep things that can be made to make sense do so.
I think if a fictional hedgehog can wear shoes, a fictional bat can wear a suit with tiny openings for her wings
@@TORXINYUEXAVIERSTUDENT There was nothing wrong with it before. Why is it so hard to understand?
The only changes i have a problem with are the Classic Sonic one and Rouge's outfit. I feel like they were unnecessary, especially with the hilarious implication that Classic Sonic ate Knuckles' island. To be clear, I'm referring to the back of Rouge's outfit.
The main issue i have with the change to amy in generations is that it come at the expense of sonics character. For example the opening scene where amy is trying to hug sonic and sonic is holding her at arms length while he is talking being changed to a scene that looks like she is trying to get his attention to give him some cupcakes and he is ignoring her. Later on there is a scene where amy talks about being able to flirt with sonic after being rescued and sonic replies this isnt really the time for that in an exasperated voice. the new scene has amy talking about looking forward to being able to help sonic but does not change sonics response. this changes the tone of both scenes from sonic being exasperated to him being a jerk.
The problem with Amy is not that they toned down her obsession but it's they replaced it with nothing. Amy used to be the spunky young girl who is hell bent on getting the attention of Sonic, now she is just "the girl". I think this is more of a disservice to this character then even Sonic 06 making her obsession with Sonic psychotic. I think they totally could have kept her attitude while toning down but not completely shoving off the thing that defines her character.
Amy obsessively fauning over Sonic isn't really all that funny, but her offering cupcakes to him in such an awkward way (with him also just ignoring her completely) was not a good fix.
1:59 THEY DIDNT EVEN TRY WITH THE LIP SYNC LMAO 😭
It's a double edged sword.
If you change something in a remaster, then people would be like:
"Why did you change this piece of dialogue or design, that makes me so mad."
But if you keep something in, then you get something like:
"Can't believe they kept that in, (whether it be something thats mildly inappropriate now that wasn't a few years ago, or just a broken peice of game that goes unchanged) that makes me so mad"
There is no winning with remasters and remakes, there will always be something people will "wish" was different.
There are two reasons why i don't like the idea that things were changed in Generations:
1. I *extremely* despise the idea of rewriting history like this, especially in a game that's about restoring history, and in one with a counterpart game that has a plotpoint of "Please don't change the past no matter how much you want to".
2: The changes made are half-assed. Only like 3 cutscenes are actually changed, none of them to accommodate for the new dialogue. A good number of scenes require the voice actors to talk unnaturally quickly to avoid SA2ing themselves. I didn't want a cutscene that imply that Classic Sonic eats Angel Island.
Either keep Sonic Generations the same as it was, or redo all the cutscenes. You can't do this awkward middleground and not expect fans to be set off by this. For the first time i agree with people who'd rather play with the japanese voices and i'm happy that's an option, i'll just stick to those this time until mods do something about the dialogue. Thank goodness this didn't bleed over to Shadow Generations somehow.
Yeah I was honestly *hoping* they'd rewrite the story the moment I heard there's gonna be a Generations remaster, since I always thought that was the weakest part of the game. (I didn't think they would delist the original game on stores and make this the only available version however.) But the execution is so half-assed, they barely changed anything and I don't really feel like the changes they did make are an improvement. I mean I like some of the changes, while I don't like others. Overall, I'm still just indifferent towards the story, so it's like nothing changed.
I also find it amusing that they decided to spend dev time and resources to raise the cloth on Rouge's back by like 2 inches.
When did this game ever touch the subject of changing the past? They're not even time traveling themselves,it's just the stages being brought back
@@koolooc726"We are traveling through time sonic!" "Without the timestones?"
FFS how disingenuous do you have to be to defends this garbage.
@@snintendogStill though the concept of changing the past is not something that was in generations.
I say they should have redone all the cut scenes and the entire script.
Sega of America could’ve invested their big budget into redoing all the cutscenes for Sonic Generations to showcase the following:
-Amy knocking over Sonic and Tails when trying to hug Sonic after Amy tell Sonic that she wants to hug him. Then the three of them get up and Amy tells him not to back away because hugs aren’t necessarily romantic.
-Amy, Cream, Rouge, and Blaze talking with Sonic in white space as many different cutscenes, not just when the player is in the hub world.
Sega could’ve allowed Sonic Team to add more cutscenes too, like:
-A sight of Tails and Amy with Modern Sonic exploring Sky Sanctuary, and then Amy and Sonic exploring Speed Highway and describing what they think of that stage.
-Then there’s Cream the Rabbit who could’ve done something similar like this with the stage commentary starting with City Escape, where she realizes G.U.N. is a protection agency of Sonic’s world. Rouge could’ve done the same as Cream starting with Seaside Hill, and Blaze could’ve done the same starting with Rooftop Run.
-What’s more is, Rouge, Blaze, and Amy could’ve taken it farther and kissed each other’s mouths as well as Sonic’s mouth, with Cream facing away from them. All because Sonic, Amy, Rouge, and Blaze could’ve had their private time for themselves to do share mouth kisses and decide to start romantic relationships with each other.
And what sets me off most is that Shadow and Silver are uninterested in birthday parties, so the cutscene for when they join the party Modern Sonic’s friends should’ve been changed so that they clearly say they are uninterested in both his party and romance. Cream could’ve told Modern Sonic that he and the older girls should follow her to Vanilla’s house too.
Blaze could’ve even showed Sonic and all the girls what Blaze’s world looked like, with Tails’ help for transporting.
All these perfect cutscene additions and adding more voice overs could’ve improved the story further. I prayed that Sega would let the developers redo all these cutscenes to fit my wishes.
But now what have I done that made Sega not allow all of that? Did I not tell them personally of my requests?
Something I don't quite get in regard to people complaining about the changes is that. . . didn't y'all agree that Generations' story was bad/boring? Why wouldn't you want changes to it?
Also in regards to Amy I feel like her personality varies on the game. For instance in the Adventure era she's great. In games like Battle. . . she's kinda flanderized. Murder Of Sonic definetely shows Amy at her best and I'm looking forward to her next roles. I'm also pretty happy Sonic wasn't just casually shoving Amy's face in the opening. Felt really disrespectful to her.
I think it's less being upset about changes (though there are some that think changing anything is "rewriting history", which... I mean come on really), and more about the quality of said changes. Some of the changes are seen as worse than the original lines.
I personally don't care that much either way. I'm not playing Generations for the story.
For people saying we're blowing the censorship out of proportion. Think of boiling the frog, letting any kind of censorship slide mean publishers will increase the censorship.
You don't know what censorship is. You're a manchild if you think changing Amy's bio or giving Rouge two more inches of fabric is censorship. Also it's definitely not "censorship" since you can still legally purchase the original game on Steam with the original content intact, with no legal or governmental bodies halting users from buying it.
You're blowing it out of proportion
That's not true.
The frog jumps out of the pot regardless. It was a myth made up by some douchebag.
ua-cam.com/video/WgIpdUR4Ac4/v-deo.html
Anyway, here you go.
@@PolarPhantom And does this video you sent achieve exactly?
Yeah, it’s a matter of principle, not quantity. You let the American staff get too cozy ‘fixing’ whatever they want and you end up with 4kids and funimation.
Many of these changes feel like they were done to appease the most annoying Sonic fans. They removed nearly all the comedy from the game because people complained about the blue hedgehog series not taking itself completely seriously in its lighthearted anniversary game.
To be fair, it’s an anniversary game. References to past entry’s and lore focus seem appropriate. It’s a bit cheesy don’t get me wrong but I definitely prefer it to the original. I didn’t hate the original but sonic seemingly being ignorant to his own past was odd. Plus, the lack of reference to the fact he has time traveled was weird.
I am mixed about it. Due to the censorship was stupid... Give us the option to use the original vs. old dialogue as both sides would be happy... It's a 2011 game after all. So why not embrace an option to see old vs. new changes.
Also this is the same game that rouge flashes robots for an ocean palace mission. So who are they are trying to convince that Rouge isn't sensual? I believe just make the alterations optional.
@@MaoRatto it’s not that she’s not sensual but she’s got more focus on her actual personality. I think the censorship is stupid too for the record. I just think it’s good to focus on that for once.
@@Doghero780 :p There was no need to make the alterations worse, then slap a bat booty shot. It's so hypocritical. It's dumb when it was fine in 2011.
Bruh they give an animal character in a kids game less tits and you goobers are crying censorship
Cap
You're furries and irrational
they practically censored all the jokes in the original. even the line where classic tails asks where sonic keeps his rings was changed to be about hoping the timeline would be fixed. amy smacking knuckles into the tree , sonic shoving amy with his hand and knuckles making classic sonic feel insecure about his weight were all funny and fit the light-hearted tone of the original. but post frontiers everything's gotta be all edgy and gloomy.
generations was never meant to be taken seriously and the way amy acted here was inline with her characterization at the time , ever since CD all the way to unleashed. so why rewrite history in a game that's meant to celebrate it ? the small changes make the game lose it's charm and replaced it with very lame dialogue and cutscenes. being faithful to the original is a rule a remaster should NEVER break.
Wow you an idiot first off they made knuckles and Amy into a joke Second of all Generation story Is about all of time being destroyed Which is literally serious And make it into a joke is really idiotic like really You complain about frontier story being too dark Is the same people complain about dark Stories in sonic games like dude Touch grass also Remasters when they change something Either in dialogue Or design A subjective And being faithful Is never a good thing If the writing is bad like generations Original dialogue like really piss off With your idiotic take
Literally no one cared about the characterization in Generations and actively criticized it because it was in the heat of the era we juat escaped from with Frontiers.
Refusing to change is how you remain medicore lol. That is absolutely not the golden rule of a remaster.
I suppose it’s a good thing I have both
This is simply idotic, you think a game with stuff like the scenes of savings your friends and having a nice dialogue with them and reliving every stage which I remind you are bright and colorful and this whole premise being based around sonics fucking birthday, is dark and gloomy? Dude get a grip
Classic Sonic eating Angel Island’s the new best unintentionally humorous thing.
My problem with Amy is that they completely retconed her. If frontiers had an Amy character arc where she realized that crushing over sonic all the time is not ok I would be completely fine with this, but she just suddenly magically doesn't love sonic constantly.
She wasn't retconned overtime as she got older she just realized how immature she was to harass sonic constantly
@SugarRush420 can you tell me in what game this arc happened?
@@Gerbert67 I never said there was an arc for that nor do I think it was even needed, in frontiers we can clearly see that the main cast have really grown/matured and even had time to self reflect on themselves after the events in forces, and because they've matured i think its pretty clear that amy just naturally over time got rid of that crush she had over sonic, it's realistic that people can let go of their childish habits over time and the same thing has definitely happened to Amy, ever since generations we have started to see her sonic-crazy phase in games begin to slowly fade away, in my opinion we don't need an arc to show that's shes over him I feel like that's been clear for a while now, like seriously name one game after generations were she was obsessing or even harassing sonic.
SA1 had this
Other people argue her main character trait is just
*”Tarot Cards”*
I see that Sega still doesn't know how to explain Classic and Modern co-existence. They re-retconned that they are the same character on different time periods. I remember that Tails on Forces said that "other universe Sonic" or something like that.
I'd chalk that up to your typical Forces fluke, personally. (There's a lot of those)
The recon of them being from different worlds was the result of a mistranslation of the word world because in Japanese the word world can also refer to the past and present and even future so the people who speak a different language messed up when they wrote the story the creator of sonic ( who is Japanese ) just fixed this mistake .
The worst reference is the time stones because you don't even use the time stones to travel in CD, you use the sign posts.
But the time stones also let you jump through time, thats why they were referenced
No, you do, the sign posts were just a game mechanic. The time stones are what allowed it
T_T
In canon lore they allow time travel
this reference already felt off and out of place but I find this reference even weirder because logically you'd think he'd reference needing the chaos emeralds to time travel. I guess sega doesn't want to acknowledge the emeralds can also time travel...
10:35 true if you want to move forward with new stuff fine but covering up your mistake is not the way to go your a business regardless what you do you'll be viewed in a bad way
It's not that they're trying to ignore it, the old games, previous version of generation and every old piece of media that at include amy being an obsessed love crazed fan of Sonic is still there, but that's not how you do your characters in this day and age. why would they keep her like that if someone played frontiers and then generations they'll get tonal whiplash by the personalities, you need to grow up and realize they couldn't have kept her the same
@samisnotmyname8865 eh sure but still feels weird you know as a person who knows the original dialogues it's weird it's unsettling somehow
@@jamesmcbayot I guess but in the end it doesn't matter if they chose to change it they chose to change it,it's not erasing anything it's trying to be better
I do hope that the modding community restores the original content in the cutscenes
As good as this version of Gens is the thing I’m most disappointed about is something they didn’t change
I’m kind of sad that they didn’t add new levels to base Generations; while they DID add new stages in Shadow Generations so it’s not that big of a deal the only games after SG that were represented as levels were Forces and Frontiers, with Lost World, Mania, and Superstars not being there at all. Would’ve helped the game since Planet Wisp is still the last and still by far the least
7:43 ... And I don't see the problem with Amy being obsessed with Sonic. Her new personality from Forces is also cliché. I do prefer the old Amy. But well, the reality is that you people dont want female goofy characters. You want strong independent (and not sexy) female characters.
I don't feel strongly about the changes themselves. It's more just the act of altering and censoring stuff is something I dislike on principle. I'd much rather game devs leave older games alone, it feels kinda intrusive that they feel the need to rewrite and tweak things in a way to hide/rewrite the game's original image. Just feels ugly, I'd much rather they just didn't remake it if I had the option. But yeah, even though that's how I feel. I'd be lying if I said I was going to lose sleep over it, nor do I think it's gonna stop me from picking up the game (whenever it goes on sale).
The whole point of a remake is to -you guessed it- REmake a game. They should change stuff, because not everything was great.
@@Drydoctor-qo5wt To REmake the game and to keep it similar enough to not crap on people's nostalgia, which is what you are really marketing. When you start changing things that people notice and it isn't seen as being for the better, they will complain. REmake the physics, the level design, and FIX what was wrong with the game. Otherwise, leave it.
@@Drydoctor-qo5wt The way you have responded suggests you've already made up your mind. I can guess the way this argument would go if I partook in it, so I'll skip to the chase and say I agree to disagree now. If you wanna have an actual discussion with someone, try to phrase things more reasonably next time. I will not be responding to you again, so goodbye.
@@Drydoctor-qo5wtbut IT’s marketed as a remaster not a remake
@@Agent_Ice0
The story and characterization IS what was wrong with Generations. Sonic and Tails should not be having amenisa about places they actively lived in. Fixing the script so that its in line with the games before the awful Meta Era and Frontiers is not a mistake it's a major boon. Sonic is NOT Mario, the Sonic series is supposed to care about it's characterization and continuity.
1:02 I disagree with this. It actually makes the games feel connected. Before every game felt like its own thing. Now it actually feels like past games do matter.
I kinda wish they atleast changed up the cutscenes so the dialogue didn't feel like they were rushed to make it fit the cutscene
Honestly, this whole thing could've been mitigated if they had made the change gradual instead of basically retconing her. Had she had an epiphany similar to Dipper from Gravity Falls that you can't force people to love you, only try to be worthy of their love, then the change would have been fine.
She actually did have that revelation. In the comics, during an early arc before the Metal Virus, she mentions that she views Sonic as someone who has to run free on his own. She had some difficulty understanding that, but now she understands it.
It'd be preferable if it was in a game. But it's still there, at least. Plus, if the comics are going to be canon, it's a good place for small character moments like this.
@mythosinfinite6736 The comic canonically takes place after Forces. It would make no sense to add it to a game that takes place in the past.
@@florntlaze810
You're not wrong there, but since she still flirts with Sonic in whitespace in this game, it's not as drastic of a change as people are pretending it is. If anything, it's a nice midway difference that could very well be the starting point people are asking for.
@mythosinfinite6736 The starting point is whatever game you begin playing. The characters' starting point (personality) is how they where on the canonical timeline; be it Adventure 1-2 Amy, Riders, 06, Lost World, Forces, etc. Retconning the past for the sake of "new" people is disingenuous of an "remaster" of THE go-to starting point game like generations where for many fans. Everyone has their own version of characters that they enjoy redoing them when you can't get the old version (on modern consoles, not steam with the bundle), is criminal, in my opinion.
@@florntlaze810
...I respect your statement here, on its surface, but you've completely lost me if you want to genuinely argue that people really liked _Generations Amy._ I'm sure they exist, but, man. That's... Sure something.
I get why they want Rouge to be less overtly sensual, but it’s as if Sega is convinced that’s all there is to her personality. As a kid, her outfit never bothered me. Yeah, I thought she was pretty and understood how her making boys feel “in love” could help her get what she wants, but this definitely feels like a case of unnecessary censorship out of fear of the kinds of people they aren’t marketing to.
Kids aren’t going to be doing weird things to a picture of Rouge just because her top allows her wings to properly stretch. Then again, in today’s messed up world, maybe they will. And that’s the saddest part of it. We can’t have attractive women in wholesome children’s media because their minds have long been exposed to things they shouldn’t.
If the game is supposed to celebrate the franchise the change to Amy is not good. She has spent more of her major appearances in games as Sonic obssessed. I dont think anyone would be that against toning it down but, nearly removing her main character trait is ridiculous.
And for your SA2 example Shadow and Sonic look identical to the characters, its a major plot point for the first part of the story.
Tbf, even sonic team seemed to forget this when writing the gag with silver in 06.
We're traveling through Time and Space! 1:26 was much better
Yeah. New one just sounds a bit flat.
I had a brain lag when I didn’t hear this phrase in this cutscene
People have an issue with censorship in general man
This. I can understand being against the changes in principle while still acknowledging that it doesn't majorly effect the game.
It's a game about a talking hedgehogs for kids i think you guys need to get a grip
@ you making people look like there weird for talking about changes they don’t like.
@@seacliff217 True, but I think people have a right to be upset about it, if was going to far like death threats than I have a problem with it.
Agreed, its been more rampant regarding japanese games but games like LOUS 2 get away with it due to Soyny's hypocritical double standards
The problem with Amy now is that she isn't 110% anymore she's more 50% when it comes to her emotions. I prefer her old characterization because of it because it was a lot more entertaining to watch a hyperactive fan girl than a stoic woman who feels the need to say she's not a damsel in distress anymore. How about instead of saying it you follow Sonic's example (at least from before) where actions speak louder than words. You would thin Amy would be incredibly frustrated in frontiers for not being able to do anything but she just acts so damn stoic. Comparing Frontiers Amy to murder of the sonic the hedgehog Amy is like night and day. I still would like it if she crushes over sonic personally but at least keep her personality the same don't make her so boring. The change to her character didn't even really happen over time naturally either. Her love for sonic just kind of stopped without a good explanation. The smash bits sonic and shadow series had a better explanation for why Amy stopped liking sonic and that's supposed to be a parody for Christ sake.
This, so much this. I would like if they didn't tone down her crush (I mean, maybe don't push it as far as 06, sure, but she was fine in most of the games before and after) but that's really just a symptom of a bigger problem. If they wanna tone down the crush, Boom Amy and TMoStH shows how that could have worked without completely changing her personality. I see so many people claim "oh the only thing they changed was her intensity" or even saying her crush on Sonic was literally her only personality trait, but that's just not true. She was feisty, passionate, energetic, and yeah, a bit violent, in a comic-cartoony way. Some of that's still there to an extent, sure, but by and large this stoic, mother hen type girl that has to constantly state how she's strong and capable just. Isn't the same character. If people like this Amy, more power to them, I don't. I just hate this narrative that "she hasn't changed, she's just grown." No. Growth isn't getting ship-of-theseus'd into a different thing.
Someone who understands Amy 🥹
I personally hated how Amy was potrayed back then it she felt like a groupie to a boy band or the majority of Anime Girls who simp over the main male character. It's hard to look past her deeds while she was behaving like that.
Though I do understand giving her an arc on how she shows restraint on her feelings towards Sonic.
Ppl do realize she had a character arc in Forces that warranted her development as a more serious character. The IDW comics proves this. She LITERALLY had to set aside a lot of her personal goals and stuff to fight AN ACTUAL WAR
I swear sonic fans are the most intelligent yet retarded people in the planet...
That's what i've been saying!
I don't care if her crush on Sonic gets toned down a little and she learns to respect his space a little more (or if that happens gradually throughout the games, that'd be nice). I just want her to have the fire and passion that she once had. They just kept the sympathetic/compassionate (which yes, is different from passionate) and kind parts of her personality and threw away everything else.
They could've given us a more balanced and nuanced version of the Amy we knew and loved... But they didn't... Which is weird because in the comics and even in TMoSTH they managed to give us EXACTLY THAT.
I'm mixed on the cutscene changes. There's some that I actually like, and then there's some that make me question what the point was in even changing it.
My main issue with Amy is that it's not like they stopped making Amy loving Sonic her biggest personality trait. They straight up removed it. It wouldve been better if it was just simmered down rather than completely removed. The only thing remotely remembering her old self is NPC dialogue after you save her, but those werent changed in the remaster so it doesnt count. Amy loving Sonic was an important part of her and can be fun if its not overdone. Also, these are cartoon/anime hedgehogs, Amy slapping knuckles into a tree is just a quick gag that shouldnt have been taken so seriously. If anything it makes Amy loom WEAKER.
Like yeah that's the thing. We don't want Generations Amy back we want Adventure Amy back
The slapping in the og made knuckles look weaker.
@@marnic0004 no it didnt lol, it was just a silly cartoon gag
@@_rando_d Before sonic generations, there was barely any cartoon gags in the games. All of this funny "cartoon" stuff in the 2010s sonic games was because of the writers. This isn't mario.
@marnic0004 dude, this is still a kids series. Even the most serious Sonic games had their fair share of gags and jokes, and they go play the riders' games.
I was actually anticipating commentary about actual gameplay-related changes :o because the first thing I noticed when I started it up was the drop-dash now existed lol
Little things feel "off" as I slowly grind back through the Sonic campaign, it almost feels like it has a little bit of added input lag too...
Not a fan of Knuckles' new voice though, not that it's a big deal. I don't mind them toning-down Amy's obsessive personality toward Sonic; I never specifically cared about the "stories" or "character development" in the games, because it was never necessary, but it's nice to know they might try to make some main characters a little less one dimensional. I actually kinda liked what Archie did with Amy over the years, they made her a valid and valuable member of the crew. But she should definitely still stay very assertive and bombastic, I also like the idea that she's actually pretty damn strong behind the seemingly cute veneer.
It's just weird... especially when Generations is the reason that these locations became as frequently used as they are. The current "meta era" of Sonic was planted in Generations... but considering this was the first time many of these locations were being revisited, it would make sense for Sonic and Tails's memories of Green Hill and Chemical Plant to be foggy at best. Now, 13 years later, when these locations keep being reused, it makes sense for them to completely understand where they are. That's why it feels so weird for them to already know all this stuff and reference these things like they were yesterday.
While Chemical Plant wasn't reused (Tails should still remember because first adventure and born on Westside) Green Hill and South Island was, it's just that they weren't actively reused in the main series outside SA2. Both the Game Gear games and GBA have you go back to both South Island and even Green Hill. (among other places like Angel Island) Though with Green Hill they did at least try some variations despite the manual saying it's the same place in the Game Gear games. (like Ivo turning the place into metal)
People are really down bad for a bat
You better believe it
I think you mean down “bat”
@@vOrbZv “ba-dum tss”
It remind me all stupid controversies with Lola in Space Jam 2.
@@vOrbZv Terrible.
my biggest issue is that the 3ds specific levels weren't included, at least we got pinball for free
Glad I can finally experience the pinball DLC ngl.
Pc had it free forever
@@anaveragegamer359 oh! So it was included with the game for free since launch in the Pc version?
I hate the fact that as a result of changing the script the voices are also changed. It does not sound right.
I’m good without bat boobies lol. All jokes aside. I’ve always wanted to play Generations. I’ve only beaten the OG games, Forces and Mania. I think this game is fantastic.
Edit: Also, I appreciate videos like this because it shows who’s pretending to know a fandom rather than actually being there for it. I also like that you’re extremely understanding about that. A lot of people can be toxic fanboys. Trust me I’m a huge Marvel and DC fan.
I love the fact the characters recall their older adventurers. It allows the world to feel lived in and expansive. It's not like it's truly important to the plot of frontiers or even the comics for that matter. Just charming dialogue to give nods to the fans of those eras.
Sonic is all about freedom.
Shadow is all about embracing who you are and your roots even if the world hates you, not denying it and pretending the past never happened.
Censorship is the antithesis to BOTH those things.
So anyone trying to defend censorship is a faker of a Sonic fan, as far as I am concerned.
Go grift to another franchise
It ain't that deep
Or hear me out, it's the suffering of the way they made rouge and Amy back then, you can't have females act like Amy in the old games nowadays because that's a stupid way to write a female character. And everything anyone remembers of rouge is the fact that everyone calls her hot. They need to grow up and make them actual better characters.
Japanese and even Chinese gacha games that write and dress female characters similarly or even more intense are busy making bank, aren't they? So I would say that that is completely untrue. Especially when all the people that are "grown up" are dumping all their wallets to said games lol. Stop defending this, faker.
@samisnotmyname8865 You'll say that but then Japanese and Chinese gacha games with more intense characters will keep making bank in our modern year and going forward, won't they?
@@DrCoeloCephalo because they prey on the fools who like to throw away their money on virtual women. Even then how does that connect to what I'm saying? Last I remember I can't buy Amy or rogue to play as them in generations.
6:42
Also they feature the song, His World. Which says the “A word” in it. So it makes even less sense when you acknowledge that.
4:35, bold of you to assume us Sonic fans have friends.
imo amy being overly obsessive towards sonic didn't diminish her character at all. I'd argue that it makes moments with her helping other characters stand out more, especially when she goes against sonic since he's the one she'd throw away the world for but she knows to correct sonic when he's wrong
I want everyone to remember this going forward with the hedgehog Engine two era
You can't have a controversy
Without being able to converse
Not every controversy when it comes to sonic is a bad controversy, It might just be a conversation.
P.S.
lowkey want to get pinned LOL
also I'm not saying your (creator) usage of the word is bad or was wrong I just wanted to point that out to everyone because we sonic fans tend to argue about controversies rather than converse
6:02 HOW IN HELL DID THEY MAKE YOU MORE ANOYING.
IKR 😭
Tails went to Green Hill in the events of Sonic Mania, which would be in the past for that Tails.
alternatively, there's the 8-bit version of Sonic 2. Or, iirc, Sonic Chaos also taking place on South Island. (And given Fang made a comeback in Superstars, Triple Trouble has to be canon, and thus Sonic Chaos too by extension)
Either way, Tails has to know Green Hill at least before Forces, given that game acts like every single area of greenery "in the world" is Green Hill.
There's also a fan theory that sonic and co went to so many places before that they basically forget some zones, which would explain why they didn't remember the zones in generations since most of the entire series happens in like, less than a year (just a thing we saw in a podcast with Ian flynn but these podcast aren't considered canon so whatever)
@@extremmefan7305 Everything is canon*
*except for sonic chronicles according to the encyclo-speed-ia
@@WohaoG That's just a fancy way of saying "we just pick and choose what we need to, or can, reuse from previous games for the new one". :P
(aka it's more like "everything can be canon [except Archie and Chronicles because we don't want to deal with THAT guy again]")
Another point i don't see people bringing up:
The original game came out almost 15 years ago. The remaster is shipping for new consoles AND is bundled with the really well made Shadow Generations. There are plenty of people who never got the original game and are only getting it now, especially people who were too young when the original released, or were simply not into Sonic yet.
Most of the discussion around the changes act as though the average player has both copies on hand, on two TVs, comparing cutscenes simultaneously, while the reality is that most people either forgot these small details or are playing the game for the first time. These players deserve the best experience, and that's what i think Sonic Team was doing: making the changes they feel necessary for a modern sonic story.
So less "pretending that never happened" and more "not doing that going forward", because at the end of the day, the remaster is still a new product that people pay real money for
Thank you. Having played Sonic since the Genesis days and putting over 100 hours into Generations, even I don't care that much about this dialogue stuff. It's not like they are completely changing the motivations of characters or rewriting the story - they are simply updating some of the writing to be more consistent with modern Sonic.
In Sonic Generations they seemed to of removed Right There Ride On from Sonic Rush from the collectable music list And replaced it with Westopolis
I like how they forgot that classic Sonic actually talks in sonic cd
4:30 No. Most sonic fans don’t have friends.
the censorships of rouge is stupid to me. Sega is scared of women's bodies like they're ashamed they made a gooner character lmao !
I don't think the Sonic Fanbase is only decisive, but more split. There are old fans, new fans, and... weird fans... 💀
Ok anyone on the Internet is like that
I’m just an old and new fan.
I’m an old fan, and these new fans are just FUCKING STUPID
The weird fans are the ones that like all the Ian Flynn crap
@snintendog not really?
for frontiers, lots of the references seem like lore-related things, or out-side of the story, aside from the ones mentioned within the actual story. The eggman memos? lore things, Sonic mentioning them on his own as some lone monologue? basically the same as memos but actively.
for generations, the slight changes are both good and bad, sonic talking? good, them remembering the past? good
the knuckles, talk change, the amy not being pushed back or not hitting knuckles hard enough for the comedy, rouge's censorship.
The fact you mention the good qualities of amy just shows that she was fine as she was, people hyper focus on her simping over sonic, and forgo the fact that when she has to take a stand, she would, there are literally many characters that are a certain way in general, and act differently towards a character, amy is that. She will be obnoxiously trying to get sonic to like her but when something happens and she has to be more serious she would be. She is the Brock of the crew, just a faithful one towards one character.
I'm personally in the "I don't mind changes, but don't pretend it didn't happend" camp. What annoys me the most about this "Oh, it was just a phase" approach to Amy, is that this way Amy was robed of character growth where she could realize that her obsesion actualy alienates Sonic from her, so she tones it down so she can spend more time with him.(or something like that)
Not to mention, that way, both the SonAmy camp and the "Amys obsetsion is anoying" camp can win.
It’s odd because the IDW comics actually kinda tried to bridge that gap
@mr.selyumor5402 When?
@@FDKeroks Exellent question
I wanna know too😊
Yeah... of all the things to bitch about, why would serious Sonic fans bitch about Sonic referencing Sonic shit? What, did it get in the way of the constant self deprication? I love it personally. I get where it could come across as too Marvel esq... but as much as the stories have just been shitting on themselves, ANYTHING is better. Plus it lets me know that the developers are looking into stuff that we Sonic fans love so dearly.
I’m in a camp that likes some of the changes, and doesn’t mind others but does feel they didn’t need to be changed.
I definitely agree I find the references charming, since it does make the world feel more cohesive and like these adventures still, you know, actually happened. Rather than being some one off thing nobody ever talks about.
And I do prefer Amy’s new writing, since the crush is still there, but now she feels like she’s had character development and her crush is less obsessive. Like, those cupcakes she holds for him are pink and blue- and if you need to know why that’s relevant… look at Amy and Sonic’s fur. Or how her changed dialogue with Classic Sonic has her say she’s always found Sonic cute. She doesn’t need a bright neon sign advertising she’s in love with him, though I should be clear, they could probably strike a better balance for people who like that side of Amy.
I think that Ian Flynn addressed the "Classic Sonic eating Angel Island" issue. Apparently, he could only rewrite the dialogue, the people in charge of the animations couldn't reanimate the models.
Knuckles' line being unchanged implies something... interesting, and really a sign that something more should've been changed for that new dialogue to work properly
4:15 I agree, especially with how so many elements are one offs and it can be difficult to tell what's theain canon and what isn't when focusing on just the games only, cus who has time to dive into every kind of media and know if something is a side story or a mainline story? Hearing Sonic mention Jet makes me glad cus I like Team Babylon but wasn't sure if they were considered mainline canon (even though they had multiple games) since they never appeared outside of Riders, nor does their lore appear in other media unless you take similarities to make a theory and multiple hypotheticals. But they're just that: ruminations of the plausible with no concrete evidence to falsify them
For those saying the Censorship didn't matter.
(And remember. the slippery slope isn't a falacy. It's a rule.)
All I have to ask is: Which way Sonic fan?
The Sonic X Sub or the 4Kids Dub?
The Sonic X Sub every day, but not for the sake of seeing Rouge uncensored (I was interested in seeing what was cut, and seeing the cut content made me feel that much more invested, like the Molly event, the uncut fight with Yellow Zelkova, Shadow needing to remove his limiters to fight Knuckles, etc.).
I'm not that pressed about her being more covered up (especially after Sonic Prime's outfit, this feels a little less egregious), but I do understand where you're coming from about it and hope that the design's aren't altered any further
@@An0therBurner94 Give an inch they'll take a mile.
Also her uncensored mods are already out.
@@vi6ddarkking Oh yeah, I saw them all alongside the somehow almost as divisive skating boost mods
...Oh I don't watch TV Shows.
Remember when people made fun of the Rouge Censorship in Sonic X? Now some are actually defending it in SXSG and I find it hilarious lol
Im hovering somewhere between indifferent and like it camp. If anything it just reaffirms what their status quo going forward with these characters are after their soft "not reboot" reboot in Frontiers.
Oh no sonic mentioned something from his past😢
I swear toxic sonic fans are so annoying
stop enabling Ian Flynn's enabling Sonic fans' 'member berry addiction
oh boy can’t wait for every interaction and conversation to become a nothing conversation referencing a past event instead of getting more insights on the characters
@@elinator8889 that's a snowball fallacy, and now you know 👍
@@elinator8889 this is a PAST game. Not a NEW game. What you said is completely stupid
@@Mike14264already happening. Frontier and forces were Ian Flynn games and they both were all member berries
I think the original lines had a subtext that because they are delaing with the time eater, Sonic and Tails' memories have holes in them. Like sure Tails might not know Green Hills zone because he wasn't there, but not remmbering Chemical Plant seemed super odd, ESPEICALLY with him feeling nervous about the purple water. To me that says his memory is altered because of the events of Generations, but his body remembers the unease the dangerous purple water caused. And as they restore certain areas their memories get fixed. Since that was either a subplot they didnt mean to make or dropped, the remaster's lines made it clear that not only are their memories intact, but that they remember all the different aspects of their adventures. Like I as a fan of Sonic since SOnic 2 came out, never knew what south side island was. SO hearing Tails explain Green Hills was on south island was a fun bit of lore for me to pick up on finally
Personally I really like the dialog changes. Originally I ended up skipping some of the old generations dialog because it felt too cringe. But now I quite enjoy it 🙂The only dialog change I miss is Tails saying "that pink water makes me nervous for some reason" because of how many people drowned on that part of the stage originally 😄 It's a cute meta joke. But no big loss. The game is still too expensive for me so it was nice to get your take on the changes and learn whats causing all this division I'm hearing about 😄
Yeah and now
When we have Knuckles talking with Sonic he says
"Where is my island?"
While the animation never changes
It looks funny as hell like he ate Angel Island
It's so stupid lol
Changing amy from what it was to what it is now to portray how she acts nowadays in the modern games is bad since generations came out like 13 years ago. Sega acts like its the first time generations got released. You can't just change the past like that.
When the past was so goddamn ridiculous about it? Yea, no, I'll take the change, thanks.
Maybe a "legacy cutscenes" option would've been nice, but Amy in og Gens's cutscenes borders on insufferable imo, and that's saying something considering how few screentime most of the cast gets in this game.
People were unhappy about Knuckles being disrespected, but now that they changed that, people are complaining because you can't change bad things to be good, apparently??? If something is of such little significance such as Generation's story, nothing is lost by rewriting it
I agree; a remaster is not supposed to retcon, it's supposed to allow a new generation to enjoy an old game that they missed the first time around. Now there are two competing versions of a game that will only stir controversy and confusion for years to come. If the integrity of these old games can't be respected, it's best to not revisit them at all.
@@yay29823 Well, the point is that, if they are of such little significance, then just leave them alone. Remasters are not meant to change characters and storylines, they're just supposed to be passive updates to allow newbies to enjoy an old game.
@yay29823 Nobody was complaining about Knuckles being disrespected, you wanna know why? It was because he never was in 2011. Nobody considered him dumb at the release of generations (2011) him being disrespected wasn't even a thing for fans to worry about at the time. The closest you could get out of the fandom was when Knuckles couldn't catch the card thrown at him in a Sonic 06 cutscene because of his glove hands. The fans started to say he was disrespected in 2014 with the announcement and release of Sonic Boom, which reduced him to nothing but a big dumb muscle headed brute.
So this is future retconning for no legitimate reason and should have never been changed (the tree cutscene with Amy).
My opinion on Amy is that she shouldn't get future character development for a game that canonically takes place in the past before SAID character development arc happened in the first place;
otherwise it completely invalidates the point of the arc to happen in the first place for a game that released at a future point (Sonic Frontiers).
At first I didn't like the changes, now I'm more mellow to it.
But holy crap, this spread like wildfire.
4:10
Because Sonic games since colors or Unleashed are very well known for their world building (lol)
I think the last time world building, continuity, or consistency was even a consideration (before Frontiers and SxS Gen) was Sonic 06
Although I do agree with how they did Amy, changing some lines around to make them make more sense from a character standpoint is ok (great imo) but changing character personality traits? I don't agree with that as much but I do agree with how they are changing Amy going forward.
I also agree anyone complaining or caring too much about these changes needs a life (myself included)
But I am glad they're getting Ian Flynn creative leading on writing cause he's been the GOAT when it comes to it since he started with Archie, he's an actual fan of the series and has much more respect for the franchise as a whole (more then SEGA imo) dudes a real one.
O wow the sonic fan that wrote the script referenced events in the past, thereby making the modern era feel more connected to the series as a whole. And they gave amy self respect. Yep the sonic fans are definitely gonna hate that one
Ignore the fat joke being removed I guess. No one complained about these before… so it says many words seeing it changed randomly.
These companies hire ppl who look for stuff that might be controversial. Same boat as those DEI people. Then when said company adjusts.. they just look for even more stuff to change. So they can validate their ‘work’
@@Shendapyyou do realize knuckles line would’ve been changed regardless of it was a fat joke or not
@@Shendapyit says nothing beyond being a simple fat joke that doesn't matter, if a fat joke being removed makes you start spewing about DEI and controversial decisions then you are very sensitive person who needs to get over yourself.
It’s especially stupid considering that’s the entire point of the game.
@@Shendapy The line changes are arguably not even related to DEI tho
My issues come down to:
Censorship is bad, period. I dont care if its small. Nothing in the original Generations was offensive. Literally NOBODY was offended by anything in these games. Its a E rated game. And we've reached the point where we are censoring E rated content. Its pathetic, unnecessary, and unwanted.
And two: Amy has NO character now. You can argue her entire character used to be nothing more than Sonic obsession and fangirling, but it was character. Now, she has NOTHING going for her. No personality, nothing memorable about her. She's just... there.
First off you an idiot Rouge was not censored like really It’s The same design as her sonic battle Design Second of all, Amy does have a character You certainly do not pay attention all like really you sir are an idiot like really Censorship In generations does not exist at all And if you do think it does you sir Do not understand the word at all
First off There’s no such thing as Censorship In sonic generations like I wonder if you People have paying attention to the game like really Do I have to remind you of blaze Remembering Crisis city Even though that makes no sense at all Second of all, all of time is being destroyed And the characters are making jokes about it Is really idiotic and dumb like also Amy In sonic X shadow generations Dose have a Character Which you refuse to pay attention To the game at all like really People complain about censorship Which Does not exist in the game itself Will complain and whine about it also Knuckles Cares about his island More than sonic own Appearance like really dude piss Off with your BS Censorship stance Knowing That’s the game designers’s own choice And not so Weird bogeyman Conspiracy
@@supergamerboy1177 First off, you claim there’s “no censorship” in Sonic Generations. Really? Then please explain Rouge’s redesigned outfit, toned down for absolutely no reason other than some bizarre need to appease a non-existent offended audience. Her character has been nerfed visually to the point of looking like a discount knockoff. And it’s not just Generations-Rouge’s entire design has been sanitized game after game, sacrificing her original charm to the censorship police.
Second, Blaze’s Crisis City memory? Yeah, it’s there, but you know what it doesn’t do? Add anything coherent. It’s not an argument against censorship; it’s lazy storytelling. If anything, it’s proof the writers had to be selective with which parts of the Sonic lore they even bothered to make sense of. So, try again.
And your take on Amy’s character? You’re seriously trying to argue that Amy has depth here? She's been reduced to a hollow echo of her former self. Sure, she wasn’t breaking new ground as Sonic’s number one fangirl, but at least she had an identifiable personality back then. Now, she’s been relegated to background status with a personality as dynamic as a loading screen. Amy used to be memorable, and now she’s practically an NPC.
As for Knuckles, congratulations on pointing out his loyalty to Angel Island-a fact we all know. It’s literally his only shtick at this point, reduced to a single-trait character whose personality was way more nuanced back in the day. But go ahead, pretend that caring about a rock 24/7 makes him complex while Sonic’s entire design is getting scrubbed down to avoid offending absolutely nobody.
Lastly, that nonsense about it being the “designers’ choice”-this isn’t about some imagined “bogeyman conspiracy.” This is about a series that has continually watered itself down, robbing fans of the Sonic they actually want to see. Just because the designers signed off on it doesn’t make it right or, frankly, a good decision.
So let’s wrap this up: The censorship is real, the characters have been reduced to half of their former selves, and it’s not the fans whining-it’s the developers, once again, not respecting the audience or the original designs that made Sonic legendary in the first place.
Imagine being pissed off over Amy no longer being a stalker anymore. That's crazy
Also, if you want to talk about watered down versions of Sonic characters, may I remind you that Sonic Forces exist?
Since it was brought up, I'mma focus on it:
Changing Rouge's design actually says a lot more about those looking at the design than the design itself. As it was before it was fine, while changing it means people are bothered by there being any level of revealed cleavage and back, meaning they're stating they get thoughts about it and are bothered by those thoughts instead of just not caring in the first place about some cartoon bat. Or they're bothered by other people getting thoughts about it and they don't want that either, which as well raises the question of why do you care about someone else's imagination? And if the idea is that this is somehow inappropriate for kids to see, it's just cleavage, women have those. Do you need to protect kids from seeing women? Do you need to prevent kids from ever going to swimming places? Either way the response to the design is what says a whole lot more about people than the design itself, because as the design was there was no issue. It's rarely about the design and more about the response to the design itself.
And about the main topic of the new dialogue:
While some of the references make sense, at times the dialogue ends up way more dry because of it. Tails commenting about the water in Chemical Plant is a reference to people struggling in the water sections of those levels. So maybe it could've been changed to make him comment about how could he ever forget that weird water of the Chemical Plant or something. That way both the reference and the joke remain intact.
Exactly, it also makes no sense to censor it because it was already a CHILDREN'S game. What does that say about the fans it was already considered child friendly in 2011, so what exactly changed between then and now. All they did was make Rouge's wings make no sense for her clothes and remove her cleavage that kids should be too young to even find sexual in the first place; have they ever visited a pool when they were younger, I sure did it was never considered weird. People complained about 4kids censorship within Sonic X (anime) for the same character. But for some reason, they all support similar censorship now. Did Sonic fans lose their backbone? Recency bias? What happened?
Tl;Dr: Games used to rely on childhood innocents. Now, they try to account for adults finding sexual gratification for non sexual things, thus censoring the game Rouge's UPPER!!! back (not even her lower back, smh). For example: it was already certified as a kids game in 2011, and it wasn't rated T for Teen. So what exactly changed between then and now?
And on top of that Rouge is meant to be sexy (for an anthropomorphic cartoon bat). It’s a fundamental character trait: she flirts, she teases, she’s… not a femme fatale exactly, but she’s something similar. In SA2 she flirts with and teases Knuckles, and one of his stage themes outright say she’s sexy. It’s an intentional part of her character, and it’s disrespectful to take it away.
I love Rouge, and the censorship does more than just ruin a few gooners’ day.
I haven't played generations or frontiers yet, but I did really like it when I found out Sticks (my favorite Sonic Boom character) got referenced in Frontiers
I like the changes, they give a new twist on an already brilliant game, a big improvement is modern Sonic actually speaks when he saves each friend, instead of just staying silent.
Yeah it was cool to get Modern Sonic’s comments on each character
And instead of being a jerk to Amy. I know he didn’t show any reaction to the cupcakes but it’s likely he didn’t notice of course
@@Stickboy321GoHe wasn't being a jerk in the og game stop crying kid
@@xnortheast1106Well Amy has been annoying Sonic and has been acting like a Stalking fangirl in the past,
But Sonic and Amy like each other now.
@@Unknown_User174 That's what I'm saying they shouldn't have to retcon the development
I love that the game was so good that the best thing people had to argue about was some slightly modified dialogue and a model update on a side character.
I think it’s fine I personally like how Sonic doesn’t shove his hand into Amy’s face
One thing I did like with the rewrite was that characters were written and acted consistently with where the game takes place. For example, Knuckles's lines and tone of voice more closely match Lost World, the game canonically right after Gemerations. Instead of say making him in line with how Forces and Fronteries portrayed him.
Can we talk about how off the voice acting in the "remaster" sounds? I'm not even arguing for bringing back the actors who were recast since Gens. Even the returning actors sound like they've just been crowded into a booth and told to just do it one take. Even redubbed lines from the same actors now somehow sound wrong. Colleen O'Shaughnessey is now voicing three roles (even if two of them ARE different versions of Tails), and she seems to have forgotten her voice for Charmy.
I think it's more they have gotten older with there voices in tow and now they need to bring back the same energy they did back then. I know there are a few voice actors that can but I don't think a lot of the cast here can and for the new voices... it's probably still 'new voice is problem' thinking where we are just not use to them.
@@rossjones8656 All the new voice actors are great, don't know what you're on about there
Some lines were definitely off, like in the entire intro it sounded like Colleen had something in her throat when voicing Tails there.
@cmguiyyt816 they are good voice actors but times have changed. Roger sounds like he's trying to impersonat his younger self and failing to do so that's what I'm getting at with the returning voices while the new one just simply either hasn't found there mojo or we are just not use to them.
@rossjones8656 Yeah no, Roger can do his old Sonic voice to a T and ain't failing at all. As for the new guys, it is 100% you not being used to them. And you alone as many others have said they either like or are fine with them.
I feel the rewrite allowing Sonic and Tails remembering Green Hill and Chemical Plant is because of Forces. Even if Forces is after gens, it means Sonic and Tails do return to south and west side island often
Has kiro heard that Sonic X Shadow Generations web manual bio for Classic Sonic states that he comes from "Different Dimension"? Oh boy the ride never ends.
I THOUGHT WE WERE DONE WITH CLASSIC SONIC DIFFERENT DIMENSION THING FOR GOOD!!! I WANNA GET OFF OF THIS RIDE! /j (But that’s really funny)
Can you change the controls back to how they used to be