Sonic rubbing his belly was actually the most important scene in the entire game, it foreshadows what happens if you live an entire year only eating official Sonic The Hedgehog Curry.
Fans complained too much and now Amy isn’t allowed to show any romantic interest in Sonic at all. She doesn’t get to smack people with her hammer either. Instead on realizing this was simply cartoon style slapstick comedy they called her a stalker and abuser. Really weird that people take what is obviously cartoon jokes that seriously but this is the result
Well i just find the way the scene happen in the original kinda corny, but the knuckles scene now this one i don't get why they changed, its a lame thing
@@james656-k8eI also think that not adding the orchestrations from the Sonic Symphony on All Hail Shadow and What I'm Made Of is also a pretty big missed opportunity. Especially when it'd be quite easy to lift the soundboard audio from a show, like Tokyo, for What I'm Made Of.
Mushroom Hill would be tasty, Ice Cap would be like ice cream, Hydrocity would be a nice drink, Sandopolis would give you a sore throat, but how the hell would he not die trying to eat/drink Lava Reef?
So Sonic Team gave Ian Flynn an outline to go by and wanted him to rewrite the story, but they couldn’t do THEIR part and make new cutscenes to replace the old ones to match the new writing. That just makes things look lazy and cheap.
@@LaekithGod forbid people have different opinions wean it comes to the writing of a character that has had many different renditions over the past few decades
Ian Flynn evidently wanted to turn this nothing story into an actual story but wasn’t able, so he settled on just changing some dialogue, and yet Sega couldn’t even give him adjusted cutscenes and actual voice direction.
There was already a somethint story originally. And if your choices are limited by the company, which would make them ultimately half assed and cringe, just dont make them at all
@@xnortheast1106 A lot of people LARGELY misunderstand that Writers are NOT Directors or Producers. They do not have the level of influence on game production that you think.
The thing SEGA needs to realize is that there was nothing wrong with Amy being passionate about Sonic and being more feisty, I think the issue was A. She's allowed and knows how to keep it on a leash when the situation calls for it B. Dumb people not letting a cartoon be a cartoon
@@yonaguy6978no. We can't. Because they need to reflect m e 100 percent (if I can't relate I can't like the character) I joke but that's how some people think.
On that topic, what is it with people taking cartoons so seriously like this anyway? I used to take cartoons seriously myself, but I was at least still just a young kid back then who had a different taste. Now I like to think I’ve grown out of that mindset. But, have these people watched WAY too many cartoons in their lifetime or something?
they got rid of one of my favourite jokes where classic tails asks modern tails where Sonic keeps his Rings but replace it with something super generic
word, i was saying to myself "if they change it, please make a better joke in its place" and it's tails telling the player to worry about how the timeline works. sure, i guess, but that's not gonna stop the people who were wondering from asking questions (unless that new line was just targeted towards children or smth, idk)
I feel like the original line doesn’t work well, as tails can already hold rings on his own as seen in other games. My personal favorite was the Japanese line where the two were talking about the revisions of the tornado (the mech from SA2)
Its just cuz of the story like ian wants to make things make sense. Rings are not things that occupy space and are solid they are more of a energy like thing so ian made surr that everything would make sense and i liked it now the universe is consize and more united with other games and its not nonsense
Legitimately, Knuckles getting tossed against a tree by Amy was the funniest thing, cause it showed how much of a secret powerhouse she is (Legitimately an endearing character trait)
I think it works better for the bit to have Knuckles be the one that gets shoved, since he's the character most known for being a powerhouse and sets up Amy to be on equal footing to him
@@abloodcorpse3318 ideally i think a middle ground between the two scenes where knuckles gets knocked to the ground and not comically flung into the tree would have been perfect compromise to how strong both characters are personally i think her just shoving knuckles is fine since i'd save that extreme cartoon physics for when she uses her hammer and as mentioned until recently he was consistently on the receiving end of jokes at his expense
I hate how they keep removing Amy’s passion for Sonic even tho it’s a core part of her character, you can’t remove it it’s like removing Tails’ admiration for Sonic It’s also worth noting that Sonic does like Amy but he isn’t willing to admit that yet, Naoto Oshima outright said this And we actually do see it happen in Unleashed since Sonic was visibly upset after Amy not being able to recognise him in his Werehog form and then when he saved her he quickly ran off And we also see in in OG Gens as well, Sonic was surprised when Amy when to give him a hug and was then trying to hold her back Even in CD we can see this despite there being no dialogue, when Sonic and Amy land back on earth, he had his hands out to make sure if she was okay then quickly ran off
But she still does, but is not comedical any more. Just look her in the adventure games. She loves Sonic yes but she has other things to do. Is not only that.
@@sonofcronos7831 the adventure games also had moments of Amy showing her passion in a silly way…… SA1 had a joke about lovers being allowed into Twinkle Park for free and SA2 had Amy joke about Sonic marrying her…..
See THIS is how I wish people would discuss things more, how it's been going on Twitter just turns me off to talking entirely cuz they're so aggressive and dramatic, but here you make a lot of the same points but in a way that engages me instead. Love it 😤
@@GonickuDB I would not for the life of me want to have an Ian Flynn discussion on Twitter. Can't say the rewrite sucking wasn't entirely on him without being called a blind fan. Can't say I found the Shadow story to be pretty eh without me "not being able to recognize his genius". Extremes are so annoying and Twitter can be full of them.
Oh wow. Someone who thinks the rewrite wasn’t needed, but also acknowledges that that speaks nothing of Ian Flynn’s writing ability (especially since the Shadow story is right there) or that he’s some terrible human being that needs to be ejected from the franchise? Since when was common sense allowed in this fandom? Seriously, some people will say he’s the devil because the cutscenes are awkward now, then turn right around and enjoy the Shadow story (and Dark Beginnings, which he also wrote).
My problem is the diehard Ian Flynn supporters who think he can do no wrong. Its ludicrous. The moment anyone criticizes Ian Flynn for anything all of a sudden you hate him. Its utterly stupid. I haven't even seen that much "hate" for Ian Flynn at all.
@@JaidynReiman I've seen both extremes and I couldn't agree less with either. Ian Flynn isn't the bringer of doom but he also writes stuff that I'm not really into. I'm glad we have someone working on Sonic who knows a lot about this franchise but that doesn't stop me from seeing faults in some of his writing endeavors for the series.
@@castform7 i personally really like Ian's writing, but I agree he ain't the best writer in the franchise, Shiro Maekawa is still the GOAT for Sonic stories
@@JaidynReiman Clearly, you haven’t been on Twitter then. The man gets hate for the slightest thing. Even stuff he has no power over. Like this video said, Ian isn’t the one who decided to keep the cutscene animations the same. Hell, I doubt he’s even the one who decided to rewrite Generations. They most likely asked him to do it. People forget that Ian is an employee who does what the higher ups asks of him, and they have the power to decide what exactly he can write.
Ironically I think Knuckle's more realistic recoil to getting shoved makes Amy look way more like an asshole than the obvious slapstick comedy in the original
I just dont get how people are coming after Ian Flynn for this. Like guys, he wrote the shadow portion, too and that was great for the most part. And hes more then proven himself by this point.
they’re probably reactionary nerds that stopped playing at a certain age with huge amounts of envy over the fact this fan got to write stuff while they didn’t
Ian is the boogeyman for absolutely anything and everything "wrong" with Sonic writing these days. He's not perfect but I have yet to see anyone come up with anyone even half as much as a good fit for the job. People expect nothing but perfection of him as if everything that came before him wasn't a mess in their own unique ways. Vocal minority as always. Again, that's not to say Ian is without faults, but people take every minute detail of this shit way too serious.
I think some of the rewrites in the Sonic part of Generations are because of Sega themselves. When Sonic Prime was being made, Sega had the "bright idea" to try and fit it into the main timeline despite Ian Flynn insistence that it was a bad idea. Fans were quick to blame Ian for this even though it wasn't his fault. Sega hired him to help keep the main canon in order, but they decided to just ignore him entirely and accidentally make him the scapegoat.
idk. I wasn't all that impressed with the story in the Shadow campaign myself. its definitely better than most of what we've gotten during the meta era, but i don't think it comes near a lot of the stories we've gotten in games from the time of Adventure 1 to Black Knight. But Ian Flynn undoubtable gets some blame for changes that have been made. To what extent is certainly up for debate, but the idea that he shouldn't hold any blame despite being the main writer now i don't find compelling. The amy pieces especially I credit to Flynn, if you ask me as Ian has expressed having issues with Amy's character. finding her affection and crush towards sonic "outdated" and wanting to remove that aspect of her. "Moving on" i think is the way he described it, but now we know that can include retroactively changing prior games to do so. he said he even wanted to change her design, but that Sega wouldn't let him. And the argument that he's made good stuff before i don't see mattering at all in the conversation of quality of this particular work. Like just because he's done good work before doesn't mean any new work, he makes is free of criticism or that his writing can't have faults.
Same thing with Rouge's suit. Adding more black to her backside to the point her wings clip through is such a weird thing to me, especially since you see her front 99% of the time.
I was surprised to learn in the Digital Foundry video that the Japanese audio and script are still the same. Begs the question why they felt the need to rewrite the whole English version if the Japanese script (which was based on the old version) was considered fine still. Like you say in the video, there aren't any incredible moments in Generations, but all the little bits and lines I did like are just worse now. And I really hate the addition of seeing classic Robotnik at the end of the Death Egg bossfight, it ruins the funny reveal at the end of the game. In the original you don't actually know for sure if it's modern Eggman or classic, and that confusion even plays into the Egg Dragoon post-fight cutscene where Tails is confused that they all thought he got kidnapped by the Time Eater already. (This was just removed entirely in the new script)
Knowing flynn was being the rewrite, its most likely done for censorship in the west. Removing anything that could be considered "Offensive" or "pushing harmful stereotypes" So amy has to be made into a cardboard cut out of a character because of that. Also add onto the fact, I am pretty sure blackrock and co have been investing heavily into Japanese companies as of late. So it was most likely done to increase segas ESG score. This is why it always leads to bad writing. They make changes for the sake of pleasing these investors. Changes that make no sense and make things worse that the majority of people don't agree with. I hate to bring this up, But this is the only explanation that makes sense to me, Its either that or they are just so incompetent that they tried to "Fix" Generations and half asseds it and gave up halfway through
Team Sonic vs Team Rose will be funny to hear in a remaster. "I found you, my best friend Sonic who I have no romantic feeling towards." "Amy! What are you doing in Grand Metropolis Zone!?" "Now tell me, where are Froggy and Chocola at?" *Flashback of the photo Amy had on the first cutscene.*
I think the real problem is that Sonic Team didn't reanimate any of the cutscenes besides the opening and endings, and for some reason the otherwise unchanged Classic Eggman Captured cutscene.
Can you give an example of a cutscene that needed animation adjustment and what it should have been? I've played through the entire game and I felt like the new dialogue already fit into the way the characters moved, but maybe I just didn't notice
@@cafequente8252 knuckles, Amy saying something wholesome and Sonic looks like an ass. The beginning where we see Amy was trying to hug sonic then suddenly she has cupcakes... that's a few and while I don't believe all of them need changes but there are quite a few.
The retcon era that started with Origins is pretty obnoxious, it makes the minor things it did stick out even more now as they seem to be obsessive points of emphasis. I’m sure if they added new cutscenes we’d get Amy’s tarot cards and Tails mentioning those two bullies.
I now genuinely believe that the reason Sonic Unleashed hasn’t been ported or remastered yet, is because Sega think they have to rewrite Amy’s character.
I hate how they think she's not acceptable today. The last time she earned over sonic was in MOSTH and the Mania cartoon which are both American made i believe. Her making a team in heroes and leading to fight eggman on her own is an amazing accomplishment to help her friends yet people back then say her chasing sonic ruined her even through marrying him was mentioned through sa2. Heck they still won't bring up the personal connection Shadow has with Amy from that interaction.
Thanks for making this video, these rewrites were driving me crazy. The fact that this is where SEGA put their money instead of something like fixing the Time Eater boss is so baffling to me
Why would these rewrites drive you crazy? They didn't change the plot or the characters in any major way. The plot is also a huge nothing burger, so these complains aren't really that necessary.
@@martinaguiluz4063 It makes no sense to me why you would spend resources bringing voice actors back into the booth just to re-record lines that sound worse than the original. what did they think it would accomplish? I’m just more confused than anything…
8:54 To be fair, most of the Game Gear games all took place on South Island, so I think it was always meant to be a recurring location, just not in the way they’re doing it now.
@@randomperson-real Tails was kinda in Green Hill via the Master System & Game Gear versions of Sonic 2, which surprisingly came out first than the Genesis/Megadrive version. So maybe that’s what’s being referenced there?
Kinda shocking the difference in voice direction between each half. Sonic Generations feels like everyone did 1 take and called it a day, while Shadow Generations felt like it had so much more passion put into it. But even in that half Roger's Sonic sounded off. I cant quite put my finger on it
I think for the shadow side roger did the deeper frontiers voice he did for sonic since he sounded so different compared to the sonic side where he just had to sound exactly like how he sounded when he originally recorded generations
The Knuckles one is already prompting "suspiciously Angel Island shaped stomach" jokes, so that's... great. I think rewriting it a bit could have been fine if they put more effort into it but it seems like they really didn't.
The amy stuff concerns me the most. The whole character growth thing made a bit of sense but with them rewriting it I get this weird feeling that they'll severely fuck up something soon edit: Did not realize this would attract as many braindead people as it did, I dont mean that I dont want Amy to be a girlboss or anything like that, I'm perfectly fine with that, and its weird to care that much about a character.
I mean SEGA is kind of forcing the writers to write characters in a certain way, i think Ian would tone her down but not that much if he could do whatever he wanted to
@@blackdot105 That's kinda the main issue I whenever someone says Amy went through "growth". Amy didn't naturally tone down her crush on Sonic, it literally just evaporated one day out of nowhere. I get it if people like this Amy more, but growth isn't the right word to use here.
I disagree that Green Hill is "just some grassy plains" and that Chemical Plant is "just a random facility." I don't think it applies to every adventure and every location, but I think Green Hill definitely holds more significance to Sonic than other areas. Consider the fact that at the beginning of Generations, Sonic was running through Green Hill _after_ having already met Tails. He returned to the location for some reason-- maybe because it's just one of his favorite running grounds! And Chemical Plant is on Tails' home island, of course he'd remember it. And changing the dialogue now is actually necessary for consistency's sake. We don't know exactly when Sonic Prime takes place, but Green Hill is very important to Sonic and friends there. There's also the fact that Green Hill and Chemical Plant were in Sonic Mania (although I'm not sure if that means Modern Sonic has experienced it...)
The thing with Tails not remembering Green Hill just doesn’t work, when he’s been there in numerous crossover & spin off games prior to the Original Generations’s release. It was just an issue, that even Roger Van De Wade made fun of that.
Yeah, this is really weird. The remaster is generally so high effort but, while I see why they might want to rewrite the original cutscenes, this was a really disappointing effort
@@Slybandito7 "meta era" Sonic had some poor writing, so this is attempting to right some of that wrong. Generations is hardly the worst of that though. Funny that they didn't even attempt to rewrite Colors, the first mainline game of that era though.
Sega have obviously changed their minds on who the characters are and wanted the stuff altered, but by far the funniest change is Knuckles asking Classic Sonic where the rest of his island is and Classic just rubs his stomach in response, implying he ate it lol
One of my greatest worries, other than toning down Amy's character, is the voice direction and how the characters would sound in the SHR and Sonic Unleashed Remaster with the current voice instead of bringing back the younger tones. And replacing the previous voice actors and their lines. 😢
@@Sailor-Heart-of-Light honestly the original games are easily emulatable on most PCs nowdays so it's easy to go back and play those even if you never owned a physical copy of them on consoles. I would check out the new versions of them as well though since they might add new content like they added the Shadow campaign on top of their Sonic Generations rerelease.
My issue with the rewrite is that they kinda put half effort in, re doing some lip sync and animations while completely ignoring others, one that sticks out to me is in the original, knuckles says to classic "By the way, did you gain weight?" Which pans to classic sonic looking at his stomach and kinda patting it. While in the remake he says "by the way, where's the rest of my island?!" But they still have the same animation of classic sonic playing next?? So It feels lost in translation. Them not redoing the cut scenes pacing to fit the new writing makes it seem like they're doing a dub of another language, with the voice lines feeling really forced and unnatural. But idk overall there's some good changes, kinda did a longer comment than I thought I would lmaooooo (Bababooey)
The old animations combined with the new dialogue kinda implies that Classic Sonic ate the Angel Island, which probably was not intended at all but I find really funny regardless XD
Flynns obsession with trying to make Amys tarot cards a thing is so forced and annoying. Being in the CD manual over 30 years ago and never being mentioned again is such a weird thing to bring back. I feel like she never even cared about them and just spontaneously wanted to try them to find her hero. Now Flynn brings them up every chance he gets.
@@mariosonickirby1 it literally says in the manual that she enjoys fortune telling. What do you mean she never even cared about them? Though, not at all surprised that you can’t read
So that's where the tarot cards came from. I never understood why she started having tarot cards, because nothing about her character implied she would use them. It feels like something a fan would do for the sake of a reference and not because it's actually organic to the plot, if that makes sense? It's like when a comic book movie pulls different plot elements from different stories and changes their contexts. The new story isn't bad on its own, but it's a plot that wouldn't have been written that way if it was an entirely original story.
While i csn understand how we've been getting a lot more tarot cards when it comes to amy. It ain't that big of a deal. Amy should have her own interest outside of spreading compassion, or sonic. and implanting more unique traits like tarot cards and Amy's slight ability to interpret the future adds more to her character
@@dragondelsur5156 so? It’s not like they got an introduction in Sonic CD either. Neither did her hammer. She just always had them. What’s even lame about cards anyway? Gambit, Yugi Muto, and Dan Kouzo would like to have a word with you then😏😏😏
I'm not as "serious" about Sonic stories as others may be, but I definitely believed Sonic Generations' lighter story was more than acceptable for the anniversary nature of the original game. That being said, I did always find it strange how Sonic (not Classic) didn’t respond when rescuing people. As such, I think that's definitely a good change (probably the best one made here). Still, I don't necessarily understand some of the re-recorded lines. Did the two Eggman's lines really need changing? They aren't bad or anything, but they're so minor that I question the point in altering them. You can tell Mike Pollock has certainly aged a tad, and there isn't as much energy compared to the original performance he gave. (Pollock still does a good job, though.) I also think another pass should've been done on some of the altered lines to ensure cohesion with old animations (that Knuckles to Classic Sonic bit is pretty glaring). The Time Stones, South Island, and Westside Island all being named dropped is definitely some obvious "fan-wankery," but Generations is already a game that's supposed to be sort of "fan-wankery" in of itself, so I don't think it's that big a deal. An anniversary game making references feels appropriate. Really, I think the updated script ranges from neat little updates (Shadow's new "On your feet" is good) to sort of odd alterations (new recorded lines and some old animations not lining up, for example). Generations' story was never supposed to be a focus, and all the script does now is just touch it up ever so slightly, I suppose. Some old Sonic Generations-great game with a light story that now has a more "natural" Sonic, but with some of the original's voice direction charm lost. ...I will say, however, that I'm shocked Sonic Team didn't change the one major gameplay thing in Generations that people seem to agree needed work: the Time Eater fight. I'm surprised they didn't, at the very least, tone down the "homing shot" lines.
@@Traveler_of_the_Stars I just dont think Generations being an anniversary game is a good justification for these poorly executed callbacks. We've had this exact issue with Frontiers, and that wasnt even an anniversary game. What's going to be the excuse next time we come across this in a mainline Sonic game? ARE we even going to get a "normal" game from here on out? Is it just going to be anniversary games for Sonic here on out, so they can get away with this level of naval-gazing forever? Because that's a pretty grim outlook if that's the case.
@@felixdaniels37that should not happen anymore. But the old Generations lines were trash anyway. And the game barely has a story, so what you want them to do? Way better for the characters to have lines that make sense instead of amnesia.
@@sonofcronos7831 I'd prefer they just leave Generations as it was, dude. 3D World + Bowser's Fury did this, with all the new stuff being exclusive to the new campaign. Why it is that Generations is the game that needed to be "corrected"? It's short sighted and leads to some worrying implications for future releases.
@@felixdaniels37 because fans COMPLAINED. I agree with you that a game script should not be changed that much. But fans never shut up their mouths about the old lines, saying they dont make any sense, and it was trash. I agree it was trash, so the changes are for the better in my opinion. But for the other fans, now the new lines are bad too? Is 2006 all over again. Fans complained that Sonic should return to be only Sonic and Eggman and have no story. For Colors onwards, the games were basically reduced to Sonic and Eggman and having no story, exactly what the fans asked for. But them, they started to complain that the games should have story and more characters... the thing they complained Sonic should not have in the first place. You see the problem? They dont know what they want. At least i will not be a hypocrite, i always dislike the old lines, so i like the new ones. But i have seen a lot of people that complain about everything, even when they get what they wanted.
I generally agree with your points even as someone who knows a little too much about Sonic stories (though I wouldn't say I'm serious about them anymore). My main problem with most of these are the line deliveries and how most of them just kinda stink. I really liked the Eggman scene in OG Gens and while I like some of the changes (I actually prefer Eggman's explanation on how he found the Time Eater here) it's mostly just not as well voiced due to either again the direction or Mike just not being able to hit what he did back in 2011 (I'm inclined to believe the latter considering Eggman's voice has probably done a number on him over the years). I was really offput by the extra references but I feel like that was just a "new = bad" thing at first. If I'm okay with the line referencing Secret Rings and Colors in a game about Sonic running through his past, I should be okay with the line referencing the only other time Sonic remembered time travelling. Overall some line changes I did like, some I liked less, lot of deliveries felt off and in general, I'd rather they just not have bothered. That being said, since they did bother, it's weird how they never addressed what's usually the one major flaw of Gens for a lot of people with the Time Eater and their voice lines.
My thoughts on Amy in recent games: Her obsession with Sonic was, from her conception, the MAIN defining trait she had. Attempting to flesh out her character is great, in that regard, but they didn’t do that. They didn’t add anything, they just subtracted the main thing. They brought Amy from being a one note character to a zero note character. Now she’s just Girl the Hedgehog.
She always had more going on for her since adventure 1, where she clearly loves sonic but has her own principles, and will act on them even if it means to clash with sonic himself. What they're doing is bringing that part of her personality more on the spotlight, but they're forgeting to balance it out with her "crazyness". IDW is doing it much better than the games, even murder of sonic did it pretty well
Ima be annoyed if they rewrite heroes cause Amy’s entire reason to go out on her adventure was to find sonic. I really don’t want them to get rid of “sonic this time there’s no way out of marrying me” line but I know they will
@@gsm4919Idk man that sorta stuff is just weird even for a kids game. Amy from Adventure/Frontiers is how I think she is best depicted. Same with most of the cast.
@@Gatorah it’s a cartoon pink hedgehog, the lines funny not weird. And honestly I couldn’t stand Amy in frontiers she was winy and obnoxious. Adventure Amy is great tho I agree with that
I feel like the long pause in Eggman's voice during that mirror room cutscene is because Eggman's new line is way shorter than his old one, they forgot to correct the scene to match
Then again, the Japanese script is untouched meaning there was no need to change the length from their point of view. This whole rewrite situation is on the American front.
>Genuinely good critique of a very strange but ultimately harmless choice that could have weird implications going forward >Specifically points out how this is probably not even Ian's fault despite the understandable distaste for how wordy he is sometimes What a well thought out and reasonable video, I cant wait for it to somehow lead to another 3 years of Ian Flynn discourse for some reason!
except Ian always wrote poor references like that and he actively doesn't like Amy and refuses to write her properly? He stated he has problems with all sonic female characters because they're either hard to justify in a story like blaze or too problematic like rouge because muh sexy and Amy because she's obsessive
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 he didn’t say that about Amy, he said that sonic and Amy’s was a “will they won’t they” that kept “dangling a carrot on a stick” and they were sometimes antagonistic toward each other somehow
@@lemon5000-tj6nv not to mention Amy has been getting "Sterilized" as early as Lost World arguably and DEFINITELY at least by Forces, long before Ian had even the tiniest bit of sway of anything mainline. Literal "hes a boogeyman" behavior.
@@DarkAura19 I don't know how it's so hard to have civil discourse on this specific topic. Like I have my qualms with Flynn's writing personally but it's very obvious there are more pieces to the puzzle of why this didn't work that people don't wanna look at cause he burned their crops or something.
@castform7 absolutely, Ian is not perfect, the references in characters' dialouge bit he does sometimes are pretty ham fisted and I also agree with Splash that he can write characters a bit too wordy for their own good. But I still like his work. Yet for some reason he HAS to be perfect in the eyes of so many people despite him being literal leagues above the issues people had with the series from the "Meta" era (god I hate calling it that, but that timeframe). This is a new era with tons of factors we still don't fully understand with what can and can't be done, and none of that is on Ian. He hasn't, and will likely never have, the final say on these things, so blaming everything on him is so frustratingly narrow minded and pointless.
"Hey, does that place look familiar to you?" 2011: "Yeah like that one time!" 2024: "Absolutely, isn't that chemical plant zone? The second level in the 1992 sequel to sonic the hedgehog on the sega genesis."
I’d be fine with Amy not showing interest in Sonic if they gave her a personality. She’s barely even a character now. Just pink Sonic. This isn’t exclusive to Amy btw. Most of the main cast is one note. Only Eggman gets to grow as a person but he’s usually treated as a joke.
Bro I mentioned how I wasn't a fan of how they changed Amy to be less obsessive in the cutscenes and sone kids just started attacking me saying the changes were good to show how much Amy’s grown when in reality it technically does the opposite.
I don't understand why this game needed a rewrite in the first place. It was fine the way it was, and probably the most harmless of the meta era. I hate how they went out of their way to alter Amy's character to the boring one that strips away most of her characteristics that they gave her in recent games. This further disproves this being a "character development" like it was excused before. There's really nothing that stands out about Amy anymore compared to other characters. What's strange is that they made Sonic way more quirky than he was in OG and more in line to how his personality was in meta era games like Colors, Lost World, and Forces. Why change other characters to be more serious but do the opposite for Sonic when people have complained about his personality change for a long time? I even feel like Roger was actually better as Sonic in OG Generations. His voice and delivery was much better. It was probably his best performance as Sonic outside of Boom. Roger's Sonic has felt really weird ever since he came back to reprise his role after shortly leaving.
Writing is an art that is emblematic of its time; it's better kept that way. No matter if you think the changes are for the better, you shouldn't rewrite a story unless you're actually making a remake of it.
Funny enough that's ACTUALLY the case. They brought back the original level designer of Generations for Shadow's campaign, while Kishimoto wasn't even involved with the game.
Nah, they tried that with Colors Ultimate and we all know how that turned out. Generations just seems to be one thing that Sonic Team consistently cannot screw up in one way or another.
3:51 The next Sonic CD remake is gonna be wild... actually the opposite, instead Amy is probably just going to stand there and give him a thumbs up from a respectable distance at the end of Palm tree panic, stardust speedway and beginning of collision chaos.
And instead of kidnapping her, Metal Sonic will respectfully but firmly request the Amy walk with him to Stardust Speedway, where she can wait on a bench at the finish line if she so chooses.
@@mikeanthony3300 Sonic never liked Amy as much as Peter loves MJ, so he wouldn't care about a "Paul" situation happening. If anything, he would thank them for taking her off his back.
@zerofudou5689 Not entirely true. There are actually several moments throughout the series that hint Sonic may secretly return Amy's feelings. In Unleashed he shows disappointment when Amy fails to recognize him as the Werehog and later runs away upon saving her as the Werehog, almost as if not being okay with Amy seeing him in his Werehog form. Frontiers also has a few idle lines that mention Sonic missing Amy and he even says to himself "Amy, I should've made up my mind sooner". This could hint at a missed opportunity to confess his feelings. There's also the Twitter take down stuff (granted might not be game canon but Sonic Team has been extremely laid back on what's considered canon) Sonic is clearly upset by Shadow spending time with Amy.
That point about referring to the stages by name making the world feel smaller is so on point. It’s too, dare I say, meta. Instead of a cool snowy mountain that the characters blaze through incidentally, it’s “The IceCap Zone”. Almost like it’s some crucial landmark in Sonic’s world rather than one small part of a single adventure.
I know it's not Ian's fault, but I do have issues with his writing even in Shadow Gens. This only happens once in Shadow Gens, but his dialogue is too self referential to the point it sounds like a Family Guy cutaway gag. He also has this bad habit of making characters speak their thoughts out loud for no reason to the point it almost feels like the game Forspoken. But aside from the awkward dialogue and cutscene changes in base gens, it's still a great game, just now with strange decisions. I have a theory about the awkwardness in voice direction. Maybe they were told to be more "serious" in the game. Which backfires because this game has a much higher energy feel to it.
is it like, within the levels of "smells lush and green! reminds me of green forest!" dialogue in sonic frontiers? because holy crap i already suggested a way better line than this back then
@@JosephJohns-xi1qb He does now. He used to be quite a decent writer. A flawed one, yes. But he could write genuinely engaging stories and character arcs
I do feel like taking away Amy's crush on Sonic is going to end up with turning her into "The Girl of the Group" who's only notable trait is, "She's the generic girl." They could tone down the crushing or at least try and pick the time and place for her to show it vs completely gutting it from her personality. They love to keep bringing up tarot cards but it never amounts to more than a character description blurb in her files.
What bothers me personally is that in their attempt to subdue Amy's crush, they removed one of her key character traits: her energy. The girl used to wear her heart on her sleeve, always expressing her emotions without filter, THAT was what set her aside from the other characters to me. Now it's not only her crush that is subdued, it's her entire personality. When was the last time we saw her get mad and strike someone with a hammer? Even Frontiers gives more attention to her tarot cards for some reason.
@@MegaGlassguy I don't understand why Sonic characters are being robbed of their personality...like seriously...who does this benefit?! Changing how a character acts because a bunch of randoms on the internet complain about it has to be some of the most weak minded creative intent I've seen in a long time! Sega really needs to know how to say "This is our creative decsion, deal with it!". It would do them more good in the long run...maybe they'd get an actual fanbase that isn't mindless fanboys and instead actual passionate people who like what they are making...
And Silver. Good god, wait until you fight Silver. He sounds TERRIBLE. It is a downgrade in every single way. You go from a great voice for Silver, to a one that sounds all nasally and complete shit. Can't wait for the mod that restores Quinton's voice because the new one is dogshit.
Seeing Classic Eggman in the Death Egg Robot cutscene just feels wrong. The whole point of obscuring him in the portal was to hide the fact that he was Classic Eggman, saving it for the reveal later!
Uh, it was pretty obvious it was Classic Eggman. Why would Modern Eggman be piloting the Death Egg? If this was a big reveal for you, then you're honestly just dumb.
That’s strange. I never thought that was meant to be interpreted as Modern EggMan, since classic Sonic has only fought his classic enemies to that point. 🤔
what i hate is that the people saying this is "not that big a deal" have probably never played sonic games like this in the first place to know why these changes are stupid. if it wasn't "that big a deal" why censor some of these things in the first place? rouge's backsuit cover legit makes her wings a more massive issue than her badonkers that had to be covered up for the "YounGER aUDiENce"
I played og Gens on ps3 and these changes aren't a big deal in my opinion because I never replay the Gens story since it's pretty bad and I don't enjoy it. I only replay the levels and missions in Gens without rewatching the cutscenes.
They are telling you its not a big deal because they support the censorship. They cannot defend it and just want to shut down all conversation. Its an appeal to triviality. they want to push their agenda unopposed so they tell you not to care.
It wasn't a bad rewrite at all... but yeah, I could have had the original dialogue and not have minded at all. The one two improvements I'd say exist are the fact Modern Sonic and Tails don't seem to have amnesia about the old levels anymore and Knuckles not being weaker than Amy.
@@axcurs I never found it funny in the first place, so honestly I'd gladly sacrifice a gag for consistency's sake, specially with how badly Knuckles has been handled in pretty much everything other than Frontiers lately.
This controversy honestly makes me wish Shadow Generations was it's own game. Like the Sonic Generations remaster is still solid, but the unnecessary rewrites brought some baggage to the Sonic x Shadow Generations. Like seriously if they wanted to make changes to Sonic Generations, then it should be ones like making the final boss fight feel less underwhelming, not sand down one of Amy's personality.
@@martinaguiluz4063 Yes, considering the changes are universally worse across the board. What was even the point of bringing Ian to this remake is the dialogue is going to be this terrible?
@@felixdaniels37 You say that as if they changed the whole story of dialogue to the quality level of 06 when in reality it's not as bad as that. Are some of these reworked lines flat? Yes. Are some of the OG lines better? Yes. Are these rewrites so bad that they ruin the story (which is pretty nonexistent) and its characters? Definitely not.
My biggest concern with the changes is that I would have liked for them to add an opinion to still be able to play the original cutscenes, as Sega has been delisting the original Sonic Generations, meaning that it’s going to be harder for people to play the story as it was originally intended if they wanted to play it that way. It’s almost like pulling a George Locus, where the edited version becomes the only available version. Though it’s still possible to just look up original cutscenes online, so maybe it’s not that big of a deal.
wait, wait, so they revoiced all the lines and have the budget for new cutscenes, but they still haven't added dialogue to Modern Sonic after the rescue cutscenes?
SEGA's last commandment was their most important: they asked us to ignore the evidence of our eyes and ears, and of our memories. I miss Amy's cutesy powerhouse personality, like she's kind of a ditz who doesn't know her own immense strength, but she's still a PERSON with a brain, and not a half-girlboss who likes her friend Sonic in a completely platonic way. I fuckin hate that they're going back and reconning that even in her most inoffensive appearance here, like this isn't Sonic X bro she was perfectly tolerable in 2011 Generations.
Why does Maria in shadow gens say she's been to spagonia when canonically she was brought to the ark extremely early in her life and did not remember any of its landscapes? Shittiest reference in the game,stupid retcon.
In Dark Beginnings Maria talks about "returning" to Earth. So that implies she's spent some time on Earth. She also mentions another line indicating she must have been to Earth in the game itself. Presumably she traveled around more when she was younger and has vague memories of it. Though I could argue its a retcon, we don't see Maria indicating she knows much about Earth in SA2. She literally asks "what is it like on Earth" which implies, yeah, she's never been to Earth, or at the very least, she doesn't remember it. Another possibility: she wandered around White Space and visited Rooftop Run. Probably not what the intent is, though.
maybe this is overthinking it, but: Option 1: She was older in the events of SA2 than in Shadow Gens, so maybe she forgot what it was like on Earth by the time of the GUN raid, but in Shadow Gens she could still remember a bit of Earth Option 2: She went as a baby/toddler and only remembers Spagonia's name Option 3 (most likely of them all) : It was an oversight from Ian cuz there's so much lore it's nearly impossible not to miss something
It’s so annoying to me why they’d change such minor things to seem more “politically correct” or something, when these things were never offensive to begin with and just take away from the humor and charm of the game.
I doubt they changed the dialogue for politically correct reasons. They changed it to coincide with the current way the characters and games are written (like how Frontiers and IDW comics are written). Rouge's back was censored because of that though.
The funny thing is that Shadow Generations is more consistent with the original game because for the most part Shadow doesn't talk in the cutscenes where you find characters just like the original
Honestly, this remaster makes me kind of not want Adventure remakes anymore, because they would definitely rewrite everything and change almost the entire story and don’t get me started on Amy because since they removed her love for Sonic, nowadays if they remake the games with her current writing, it would just not make any sense, and would just feel as a random female character that exist because reasons.
So being overly obsessive is the only way to show her love to sonic? That's such a weird point,heavily disagree with the whole comment In general,the dialogue change barely affected the core story,if an sa 1 and 2 remake happen it wouldn't be that different it would just be changing some awkward dialogue
@@lemon5000-tj6nv ahh yes because chasing around in heroes and telling him he HAS to marry her isn't obsessive at all, amy can still love sonic without her being pretty annoying about it,and she was VERY annoying in games like heroes and og generations
The whole Amy sonic thing has always been debated and interpreted ever since Sonic cd. I doubt there’s ever gonna be a way to make the people happy tbh
I like how shadow now says "on your feet" in the final sonic generations cutscene it feels more in character than "you got this sonic" its still clear hes confident in sonics ability but now he doesnt sound like emo mickey mouse
My thoughts, pretty much. Most of the changes I felt were for the worse (unfortunate as I thought if Flynn's more maligned writing quirks would be best utilized anywhere, it'd be Generations), but at the same time, it's Generations. The script was never outstanding for it. My only real compliment towards the original is that it was probably the best script Pontac and Graff penned (I think the highs in Colors and even Lost World are higher, but the lows are also so much lower), but that's not saying a whole lot. I just think it's in an odd space, where in its current state, keeping the original script would have been better, but I think if they went all the way with the cutscene revamps Ian could have cooked. Idk, either way, it's hard to warrant getting super hot and bothered about the rewrite, though discussion is warranted and good. Anyone looking at this as justification to hate the remaster or dogpile Ian again is being a bit silly, though, imo. P.S. Sega can we stop being weird about Amy, she doesn't need to be "fixed" just because a vocal minority think she's too obsessive. Ian has written her just fine in IDW, let him cook.
Japan once again gets the better script, just like in Frontiers. The changes being the result of the localizers actually make a lot of sense if true. May also explain the Rouge censorship because localizers often vouch for prudish changes like this. They might have complained about Rouge being too hot for them lmao "NOOOO NOOOOO NOT THE CARTOON BAT TIDDIEZ! SHRINK THEM! SHRINK THEM! AAAAAAAH HER BACK! ITS BLINDING MY EYES!!!! TOO LEWD!!!!! COVER IT! COVER IT!"
2:232:56 I like this picture. It's just like "This is totally not LS Mark! See! This guy has the Splash Dash channel icon on his face! Mark doesn't have that!"
still a great remaster tho
Is it?
Any remaster with changes isn’t great
They made them because people in 2011 aren't the same as 2024 people could get offended from anything in this year
@@doctorfrosty3546what? Lol
@doctorfrosty3546 "Any remaster with a change isn't great." Just say that you like ports.
Knuckles: Where is the rest of my island?
Classic Sonic with an Angel Island shaped belly: No idea.
Tom and Jerry ass moment
it was really funny scrolling down and seeing this comment about 15 seconds before i saw the part of the video it's referencing
Oh god now I picture it
Bro Ate the Island 😂
"we outta angel islands"
At least it's confirmed that classic Sonic ate angel Island
If knuckles found out, we will be building classic sonics grave
I like how they went through the effort of reanimating scenes with Amy in them but not with classic Sonic rubbing his belly.
Sonic rubbing his belly was actually the most important scene in the entire game, it foreshadows what happens if you live an entire year only eating official Sonic The Hedgehog Curry.
@@Perrcoco Of course! Why didn't I think of that!? 🤯
@@PerrcocoUnless you live in America, then you might actually lose weight 😂
Sweet baby priorities xDD
@@Perrcocoand don't forget a side of Sonic Jam jam!
Nah, the Knuckles one doesn't need to be changed. Classic Sonic eating Angel Island is so much funnier.
that joke is infinitely funnier
4:12 Knuckles asking Classic Sonic what happened to his island and Sonic rubbing his tummy afterwards has some... strange implications
he *A T E* it
Didn’t Knuckles originally ask Classic Sonic if he got chubbier (thinking it was modern sonic)?
Which is why he rubbed his tummy.
@@Robin503yeah
@@MahNamJeff The remake shouldn’t have bothered changing the dialogue if they wasn’t gonna remake the cutscene 😂
@@Robin503 YEAH.
Fans complained too much and now Amy isn’t allowed to show any romantic interest in Sonic at all. She doesn’t get to smack people with her hammer either. Instead on realizing this was simply cartoon style slapstick comedy they called her a stalker and abuser. Really weird that people take what is obviously cartoon jokes that seriously but this is the result
Fans had double standards, they complained when Amy “treated ppl poorly”
But then said nothing about when sonic did it to Amy in Rivals and Riders
But let's be honest, did the old fans actually find Amy's slapstick comedy funny? I know I didn't
Well i just find the way the scene happen in the original kinda corny, but the knuckles scene now this one i don't get why they changed, its a lame thing
@martinaguiluz4063 I did at least. I always found that character archetype entertaining at times.
"fans"
You mean ESG investors.
The fact they put more effort into rewriting the whole game but still keeping the Time Eater boss the same is crazy to me 😭
They could have at least replaced the music with Sonic Youth.
@@Gnidelyeeeah
They could have made the Time Eater like the 3DS version
@@james656-k8eI also think that not adding the orchestrations from the Sonic Symphony on All Hail Shadow and What I'm Made Of is also a pretty big missed opportunity. Especially when it'd be quite easy to lift the soundboard audio from a show, like Tokyo, for What I'm Made Of.
@@Gnidel I feel like The Doomsday Zone or Live & Learn would be much better.
I don’t know, man, I thought the twist of Classic Sonic eating the rest of Angel Island was pretty well-executed.
5:00 Classic Sonic ate Angel Island
Mushroom Hill would be tasty, Ice Cap would be like ice cream, Hydrocity would be a nice drink, Sandopolis would give you a sore throat, but how the hell would he not die trying to eat/drink Lava Reef?
@@woopzbruh-p3r mMM m spicy
@@woopzbruh-p3r Lava Reef would taste like cinnamon frosting
@@ShadowsNumber1Simp and pain
So Sonic Team gave Ian Flynn an outline to go by and wanted him to rewrite the story, but they couldn’t do THEIR part and make new cutscenes to replace the old ones to match the new writing. That just makes things look lazy and cheap.
People will do anything but admit Flynn isn't a great writer.
Sonic Team doing the absolute bare minimum and struggling to do even that? Whaaaaaaat? Noooooooo that's so crazy!
@@Laekith when it comes to archie writers theres only two ken penders and ian flynn i know which i would rather have and it isnt ken
@@LaekithGod forbid people have different opinions wean it comes to the writing of a character that has had many different renditions over the past few decades
no the Japanese script is largely the same lol, this is probably a SOA decision
Ian Flynn evidently wanted to turn this nothing story into an actual story but wasn’t able, so he settled on just changing some dialogue, and yet Sega couldn’t even give him adjusted cutscenes and actual voice direction.
There was already a somethint story originally. And if your choices are limited by the company, which would make them ultimately half assed and cringe, just dont make them at all
Last time I checked, he wasn’t a director though
@@xnortheast1106 I don't think those choices are really his to make
@@xnortheast1106 A lot of people LARGELY misunderstand that Writers are NOT Directors or Producers. They do not have the level of influence on game production that you think.
at that point dont rewrite lines so they now dont make sense.
The thing SEGA needs to realize is that there was nothing wrong with Amy being passionate about Sonic and being more feisty, I think the issue was
A. She's allowed and knows how to keep it on a leash when the situation calls for it
B. Dumb people not letting a cartoon be a cartoon
I seriously feel some people are imposing their insecurities on that matter. Can't we have imperfect characters?
@@yonaguy6978no. We can't. Because they need to reflect m e 100 percent (if I can't relate I can't like the character)
I joke but that's how some people think.
Ehhh I disagree she was too annoying having a character of her own besides only being about Sonic was the better
On that topic, what is it with people taking cartoons so seriously like this anyway? I used to take cartoons seriously myself, but I was at least still just a young kid back then who had a different taste. Now I like to think I’ve grown out of that mindset. But, have these people watched WAY too many cartoons in their lifetime or something?
@@SquidwardSmellsGOOD734 like there's a difference between being passionate about the series and taking offense to things that aren't real
they got rid of one of my favourite jokes where classic tails asks modern tails where Sonic keeps his Rings but replace it with something super generic
We will keep asking till they give us an answer.😡
i generally like the rewrite but that was a big L
word, i was saying to myself "if they change it, please make a better joke in its place" and it's tails telling the player to worry about how the timeline works.
sure, i guess, but that's not gonna stop the people who were wondering from asking questions (unless that new line was just targeted towards children or smth, idk)
I feel like the original line doesn’t work well, as tails can already hold rings on his own as seen in other games. My personal favorite was the Japanese line where the two were talking about the revisions of the tornado (the mech from SA2)
Its just cuz of the story like ian wants to make things make sense. Rings are not things that occupy space and are solid they are more of a energy like thing so ian made surr that everything would make sense and i liked it now the universe is consize and more united with other games and its not nonsense
Legitimately, Knuckles getting tossed against a tree by Amy was the funniest thing, cause it showed how much of a secret powerhouse she is (Legitimately an endearing character trait)
It was annoying they made Knuckles the butt of the joke and I’m glad they changed it. Still couldn’t keep her hands to herself unfortunately.
I think it works better for the bit to have Knuckles be the one that gets shoved, since he's the character most known for being a powerhouse and sets up Amy to be on equal footing to him
@@abloodcorpse3318 Think it's mentioned sometimes how heavy her hammer is too so she was getting several hints of being pretty darn strong
Girl literally does boxing
@@abloodcorpse3318 ideally i think a middle ground between the two scenes where knuckles gets knocked to the ground and not comically flung into the tree would have been perfect compromise to how strong both characters are
personally i think her just shoving knuckles is fine since i'd save that extreme cartoon physics for when she uses her hammer and as mentioned until recently he was consistently on the receiving end of jokes at his expense
I hate how they keep removing Amy’s passion for Sonic even tho it’s a core part of her character, you can’t remove it it’s like removing Tails’ admiration for Sonic
It’s also worth noting that Sonic does like Amy but he isn’t willing to admit that yet, Naoto Oshima outright said this
And we actually do see it happen in Unleashed since Sonic was visibly upset after Amy not being able to recognise him in his Werehog form and then when he saved her he quickly ran off
And we also see in in OG Gens as well, Sonic was surprised when Amy when to give him a hug and was then trying to hold her back
Even in CD we can see this despite there being no dialogue, when Sonic and Amy land back on earth, he had his hands out to make sure if she was okay then quickly ran off
Yeah, Amy is just "too much" for Sonic. Or at least she was. That's what made the dynamic good.
Same! Thank god that's not remotely what they're doing?
@@Laekith yeah, her character bio on the Sonic Channel website outright says that she does overwhelm Sonic sometimes
But she still does, but is not comedical any more. Just look her in the adventure games. She loves Sonic yes but she has other things to do. Is not only that.
@@sonofcronos7831 the adventure games also had moments of Amy showing her passion in a silly way……
SA1 had a joke about lovers being allowed into Twinkle Park for free and SA2 had Amy joke about Sonic marrying her…..
See THIS is how I wish people would discuss things more, how it's been going on Twitter just turns me off to talking entirely cuz they're so aggressive and dramatic, but here you make a lot of the same points but in a way that engages me instead. Love it 😤
Straight up facts
Yeah at this point game discussion on twitter is pointless now. It's just rage bait and assholery
@@GonickuDB I would not for the life of me want to have an Ian Flynn discussion on Twitter. Can't say the rewrite sucking wasn't entirely on him without being called a blind fan. Can't say I found the Shadow story to be pretty eh without me "not being able to recognize his genius". Extremes are so annoying and Twitter can be full of them.
@@senorapples1115 Tbf, any meaningful conversation is pointless on Twitter
@@castform7True this
Oh wow. Someone who thinks the rewrite wasn’t needed, but also acknowledges that that speaks nothing of Ian Flynn’s writing ability (especially since the Shadow story is right there) or that he’s some terrible human being that needs to be ejected from the franchise? Since when was common sense allowed in this fandom?
Seriously, some people will say he’s the devil because the cutscenes are awkward now, then turn right around and enjoy the Shadow story (and Dark Beginnings, which he also wrote).
My problem is the diehard Ian Flynn supporters who think he can do no wrong. Its ludicrous. The moment anyone criticizes Ian Flynn for anything all of a sudden you hate him. Its utterly stupid.
I haven't even seen that much "hate" for Ian Flynn at all.
@@JaidynReiman I've seen both extremes and I couldn't agree less with either. Ian Flynn isn't the bringer of doom but he also writes stuff that I'm not really into. I'm glad we have someone working on Sonic who knows a lot about this franchise but that doesn't stop me from seeing faults in some of his writing endeavors for the series.
@@castform7 i personally really like Ian's writing, but I agree he ain't the best writer in the franchise, Shiro Maekawa is still the GOAT for Sonic stories
@@JaidynReiman Clearly, you haven’t been on Twitter then. The man gets hate for the slightest thing. Even stuff he has no power over. Like this video said, Ian isn’t the one who decided to keep the cutscene animations the same. Hell, I doubt he’s even the one who decided to rewrite Generations. They most likely asked him to do it. People forget that Ian is an employee who does what the higher ups asks of him, and they have the power to decide what exactly he can write.
I didn't like that Shadows Animation. I thought it was fan made.
They really nerfed my girl Amy in the last cutscene.
I didn't even get a chance to read the patch notes.
She stopped hitting the gym
@@Winder_Storm Either that, or she's holding back way more than usual
Or they finally gave Knuckles his canon strength and stopped making him the butt of unfunny jokes.
@@EWOODJ Yeah, that makes sense
@@EWOODJ #NerfKnucksNextPatch The Amy Knuckles match-up is literally unplayable
Ironically I think Knuckle's more realistic recoil to getting shoved makes Amy look way more like an asshole than the obvious slapstick comedy in the original
Yeah but teenagers are arseholes to each other. It's a playful puch as well instead of a full on attack on knuckles
I mean it made her look like an asshole in the original as well.
@@bobthebusbuilder2478Nope there was nothing wrong with the original
@@xnortheast1106Knuckles was the butt of the joke like each sonic game of the 2010s, that's what's wrong with it
@@keiththxcup3014Yeah, the Amy glazers in this comment section is insane
Sonic x Shadow Generations mod that has Classic Sonic with an Angel Island-shaped neck when?
I just dont get how people are coming after Ian Flynn for this. Like guys, he wrote the shadow portion, too and that was great for the most part.
And hes more then proven himself by this point.
they’re probably reactionary nerds that stopped playing at a certain age with huge amounts of envy over the fact this fan got to write stuff while they didn’t
Ian is the boogeyman for absolutely anything and everything "wrong" with Sonic writing these days. He's not perfect but I have yet to see anyone come up with anyone even half as much as a good fit for the job. People expect nothing but perfection of him as if everything that came before him wasn't a mess in their own unique ways.
Vocal minority as always. Again, that's not to say Ian is without faults, but people take every minute detail of this shit way too serious.
I think some of the rewrites in the Sonic part of Generations are because of Sega themselves. When Sonic Prime was being made, Sega had the "bright idea" to try and fit it into the main timeline despite Ian Flynn insistence that it was a bad idea. Fans were quick to blame Ian for this even though it wasn't his fault. Sega hired him to help keep the main canon in order, but they decided to just ignore him entirely and accidentally make him the scapegoat.
I think Shiro Maekawa would be nice @@DarkAura19
idk. I wasn't all that impressed with the story in the Shadow campaign myself. its definitely better than most of what we've gotten during the meta era, but i don't think it comes near a lot of the stories we've gotten in games from the time of Adventure 1 to Black Knight. But Ian Flynn undoubtable gets some blame for changes that have been made. To what extent is certainly up for debate, but the idea that he shouldn't hold any blame despite being the main writer now i don't find compelling. The amy pieces especially I credit to Flynn, if you ask me as Ian has expressed having issues with Amy's character. finding her affection and crush towards sonic "outdated" and wanting to remove that aspect of her. "Moving on" i think is the way he described it, but now we know that can include retroactively changing prior games to do so. he said he even wanted to change her design, but that Sega wouldn't let him. And the argument that he's made good stuff before i don't see mattering at all in the conversation of quality of this particular work. Like just because he's done good work before doesn't mean any new work, he makes is free of criticism or that his writing can't have faults.
the new versions of the amy cutscenes look like a 4kids edit of sonic generations
Not to mention the chili dog Sliver magically has at the ending 😂
They Wish they had the effort of the 4kids cenors that redrew MULTIPLE full scenes at a time to censor something.
Same thing with Rouge's suit. Adding more black to her backside to the point her wings clip through is such a weird thing to me, especially since you see her front 99% of the time.
I was surprised to learn in the Digital Foundry video that the Japanese audio and script are still the same. Begs the question why they felt the need to rewrite the whole English version if the Japanese script (which was based on the old version) was considered fine still. Like you say in the video, there aren't any incredible moments in Generations, but all the little bits and lines I did like are just worse now.
And I really hate the addition of seeing classic Robotnik at the end of the Death Egg bossfight, it ruins the funny reveal at the end of the game. In the original you don't actually know for sure if it's modern Eggman or classic, and that confusion even plays into the Egg Dragoon post-fight cutscene where Tails is confused that they all thought he got kidnapped by the Time Eater already. (This was just removed entirely in the new script)
Knowing flynn was being the rewrite, its most likely done for censorship in the west. Removing anything that could be considered "Offensive" or "pushing harmful stereotypes" So amy has to be made into a cardboard cut out of a character because of that.
Also add onto the fact, I am pretty sure blackrock and co have been investing heavily into Japanese companies as of late. So it was most likely done to increase segas ESG score. This is why it always leads to bad writing. They make changes for the sake of pleasing these investors. Changes that make no sense and make things worse that the majority of people don't agree with.
I hate to bring this up, But this is the only explanation that makes sense to me, Its either that or they are just so incompetent that they tried to "Fix" Generations and half asseds it and gave up halfway through
Team Sonic vs Team Rose will be funny to hear in a remaster.
"I found you, my best friend Sonic who I have no romantic feeling towards."
"Amy! What are you doing in Grand Metropolis Zone!?"
"Now tell me, where are Froggy and Chocola at?"
*Flashback of the photo Amy had on the first cutscene.*
😂
That just makes me sad, why did i get so invested
Ok, this is a _pretty massive_ overreaction toward the changes.
"Sonic, this time there’s no way outta tarot card readings!"
@@BobbinRobbin777 The comment is obviously a joke. You're the one overreacting, no offense.
I think the real problem is that Sonic Team didn't reanimate any of the cutscenes besides the opening and endings, and for some reason the otherwise unchanged Classic Eggman Captured cutscene.
That is my only issue. You're going to change the dialog then find a way to touch up the animations.
I actually blame sega on this, they cheapen out on that part
@@jen_le_girl yeah, in an effort to focus on shadow gens they screwed up a nothing burger like sonic gens... at least that's what it seems like.
Can you give an example of a cutscene that needed animation adjustment and what it should have been? I've played through the entire game and I felt like the new dialogue already fit into the way the characters moved, but maybe I just didn't notice
@@cafequente8252 knuckles, Amy saying something wholesome and Sonic looks like an ass. The beginning where we see Amy was trying to hug sonic then suddenly she has cupcakes... that's a few and while I don't believe all of them need changes but there are quite a few.
The retcon era that started with Origins is pretty obnoxious, it makes the minor things it did stick out even more now as they seem to be obsessive points of emphasis. I’m sure if they added new cutscenes we’d get Amy’s tarot cards and Tails mentioning those two bullies.
100%. Both of those things you mentioned are in the new replacement character bios in the collection room.
tails being bullied is not on the same level as the tarot cards be so fucking fr lol
I now genuinely believe that the reason Sonic Unleashed hasn’t been ported or remastered yet, is because Sega think they have to rewrite Amy’s character.
I hate how they think she's not acceptable today. The last time she earned over sonic was in MOSTH and the Mania cartoon which are both American made i believe. Her making a team in heroes and leading to fight eggman on her own is an amazing accomplishment to help her friends yet people back then say her chasing sonic ruined her even through marrying him was mentioned through sa2. Heck they still won't bring up the personal connection Shadow has with Amy from that interaction.
@@yonaguy6978 It's not even Sega in general that thinks Amy is inappropriate, it's just Sega of America.
> "I wish Sonic Generations had better writing!"
> *monkey's paw* Halfassed cutscenes that actually changed for the worst
I feel like all of them are better tbh
Not really a monkey's paw: Sega gave fans exactly what they spent years begging for.
@@ashuebot-tabi4449 Maybe, but I wish they didn't come with the cost of being lazy and not reworking the cutscenes to fit with the new writing.
Fans from 13 years.
@@kenrichgumanid9235 But fans nonetheless, who are probably still active in the fanbase.
Thanks for making this video, these rewrites were driving me crazy. The fact that this is where SEGA put their money instead of something like fixing the Time Eater boss is so baffling to me
It's still the same fight omfg
@@czms922Same shit fight
Why would these rewrites drive you crazy? They didn't change the plot or the characters in any major way. The plot is also a huge nothing burger, so these complains aren't really that necessary.
@@martinaguiluz4063fr
@@martinaguiluz4063 It makes no sense to me why you would spend resources bringing voice actors back into the booth just to re-record lines that sound worse than the original. what did they think it would accomplish? I’m just more confused than anything…
8:54 To be fair, most of the Game Gear games all took place on South Island, so I think it was always meant to be a recurring location, just not in the way they’re doing it now.
The Sonic lore master strikes again!
@@Change51 Cybershell?
also tails was in green hill zone during sonic mania
@@randomperson-realwe still don't know sonic mania is canon or not because..... Yk FORCES(I like forces tho) or at least for now, but maybe
@@randomperson-real Tails was kinda in Green Hill via the Master System & Game Gear versions of Sonic 2, which surprisingly came out first than the Genesis/Megadrive version. So maybe that’s what’s being referenced there?
Kinda shocking the difference in voice direction between each half. Sonic Generations feels like everyone did 1 take and called it a day, while Shadow Generations felt like it had so much more passion put into it. But even in that half Roger's Sonic sounded off. I cant quite put my finger on it
I think for the shadow side roger did the deeper frontiers voice he did for sonic since he sounded so different compared to the sonic side where he just had to sound exactly like how he sounded when he originally recorded generations
The Knuckles one is already prompting "suspiciously Angel Island shaped stomach" jokes, so that's... great.
I think rewriting it a bit could have been fine if they put more effort into it but it seems like they really didn't.
Sonic, The Island Eater
honestly it would've been better if they didnt bother, would've costed them a lot less and people would be happier for it.
The amy stuff concerns me the most. The whole character growth thing made a bit of sense but with them rewriting it I get this weird feeling that they'll severely fuck up something soon
edit: Did not realize this would attract as many braindead people as it did, I dont mean that I dont want Amy to be a girlboss or anything like that, I'm perfectly fine with that, and its weird to care that much about a character.
I mean SEGA is kind of forcing the writers to write characters in a certain way, i think Ian would tone her down but not that much if he could do whatever he wanted to
She didn't have a character arc, it just switched outta nowhere in Lost World.
@@blackdot105and the new gens rolled with it. Now here we are, reaping all the seeds that were sown 10 years ago.
@@blackdot105 That's kinda the main issue I whenever someone says Amy went through "growth". Amy didn't naturally tone down her crush on Sonic, it literally just evaporated one day out of nowhere. I get it if people like this Amy more, but growth isn't the right word to use here.
@@castform7you act like it's not there at all
I disagree that Green Hill is "just some grassy plains" and that Chemical Plant is "just a random facility."
I don't think it applies to every adventure and every location, but I think Green Hill definitely holds more significance to Sonic than other areas. Consider the fact that at the beginning of Generations, Sonic was running through Green Hill _after_ having already met Tails. He returned to the location for some reason-- maybe because it's just one of his favorite running grounds!
And Chemical Plant is on Tails' home island, of course he'd remember it.
And changing the dialogue now is actually necessary for consistency's sake.
We don't know exactly when Sonic Prime takes place, but Green Hill is very important to Sonic and friends there. There's also the fact that Green Hill and Chemical Plant were in Sonic Mania (although I'm not sure if that means Modern Sonic has experienced it...)
The thing with Tails not remembering Green Hill just doesn’t work, when he’s been there in numerous crossover & spin off games prior to the Original Generations’s release. It was just an issue, that even Roger Van De Wade made fun of that.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios you said "crossover & spin off" literally right there in your sentence my guy.
@@_maliciousIntent litterly Blaze is from a spin off game
Yeah, this is really weird. The remaster is generally so high effort but, while I see why they might want to rewrite the original cutscenes, this was a really disappointing effort
Not worth starting internet flamewars over though
Besides the rewrites questionable quality, I'm in the camp of why did they even bother?
@@Slybandito7 "meta era" Sonic had some poor writing, so this is attempting to right some of that wrong. Generations is hardly the worst of that though. Funny that they didn't even attempt to rewrite Colors, the first mainline game of that era though.
Common Flynn L
@@mariosonickirby1 drone
Sega have obviously changed their minds on who the characters are and wanted the stuff altered, but by far the funniest change is Knuckles asking Classic Sonic where the rest of his island is and Classic just rubs his stomach in response, implying he ate it lol
That joke makes no sense no matter how you look at it
These rewrites make me terrified at the concept of a sonic adventure 1 remake now ngl
I'm more scared for a Sonic Heroes remake ngl. Remember how Amy was in that game? They will probably rewrite her in a remake of it :/
One of my greatest worries, other than toning down Amy's character, is the voice direction and how the characters would sound in the SHR and Sonic Unleashed Remaster with the current voice instead of bringing back the younger tones.
And replacing the previous voice actors and their lines. 😢
@@Sailor-Heart-of-Light yeah they could do that sadly.
@@sonicmaiden2871 In that case, I'll stick to the original games. 🥺
@@Sailor-Heart-of-Light honestly the original games are easily emulatable on most PCs nowdays so it's easy to go back and play those even if you never owned a physical copy of them on consoles. I would check out the new versions of them as well though since they might add new content like they added the Shadow campaign on top of their Sonic Generations rerelease.
My issue with the rewrite is that they kinda put half effort in, re doing some lip sync and animations while completely ignoring others, one that sticks out to me is in the original, knuckles says to classic "By the way, did you gain weight?" Which pans to classic sonic looking at his stomach and kinda patting it. While in the remake he says "by the way, where's the rest of my island?!" But they still have the same animation of classic sonic playing next?? So It feels lost in translation. Them not redoing the cut scenes pacing to fit the new writing makes it seem like they're doing a dub of another language, with the voice lines feeling really forced and unnatural. But idk overall there's some good changes, kinda did a longer comment than I thought I would lmaooooo
(Bababooey)
The old animations combined with the new dialogue kinda implies that Classic Sonic ate the Angel Island, which probably was not intended at all but I find really funny regardless XD
Amy in heroes remake be like
'Sonic, there's no way out of fortune card telling with me'
"I wonder where Sonic is… he was supposed to come to my card reading today…"
Ok, but the idea of Amy reading his fortune to him is kinda cute
... How do they mess up with Mike Pollock??? That guy is such an amazing Eggman in the other games and shows!
Flynns obsession with trying to make Amys tarot cards a thing is so forced and annoying. Being in the CD manual over 30 years ago and never being mentioned again is such a weird thing to bring back. I feel like she never even cared about them and just spontaneously wanted to try them to find her hero. Now Flynn brings them up every chance he gets.
@@mariosonickirby1 it literally says in the manual that she enjoys fortune telling. What do you mean she never even cared about them? Though, not at all surprised that you can’t read
So that's where the tarot cards came from. I never understood why she started having tarot cards, because nothing about her character implied she would use them. It feels like something a fan would do for the sake of a reference and not because it's actually organic to the plot, if that makes sense? It's like when a comic book movie pulls different plot elements from different stories and changes their contexts. The new story isn't bad on its own, but it's a plot that wouldn't have been written that way if it was an entirely original story.
While i csn understand how we've been getting a lot more tarot cards when it comes to amy. It ain't that big of a deal. Amy should have her own interest outside of spreading compassion, or sonic. and implanting more unique traits like tarot cards and Amy's slight ability to interpret the future adds more to her character
@@Jackattack359 The stupid things came out of nowhere with no build up to it, give Amy more powers, sure, but only the cards? Lame.
@@dragondelsur5156 so? It’s not like they got an introduction in Sonic CD either. Neither did her hammer. She just always had them. What’s even lame about cards anyway? Gambit, Yugi Muto, and Dan Kouzo would like to have a word with you then😏😏😏
I'm not as "serious" about Sonic stories as others may be, but I definitely believed Sonic Generations' lighter story was more than acceptable for the anniversary nature of the original game.
That being said, I did always find it strange how Sonic (not Classic) didn’t respond when rescuing people. As such, I think that's definitely a good change (probably the best one made here). Still, I don't necessarily understand some of the re-recorded lines. Did the two Eggman's lines really need changing? They aren't bad or anything, but they're so minor that I question the point in altering them. You can tell Mike Pollock has certainly aged a tad, and there isn't as much energy compared to the original performance he gave. (Pollock still does a good job, though.) I also think another pass should've been done on some of the altered lines to ensure cohesion with old animations (that Knuckles to Classic Sonic bit is pretty glaring).
The Time Stones, South Island, and Westside Island all being named dropped is definitely some obvious "fan-wankery," but Generations is already a game that's supposed to be sort of "fan-wankery" in of itself, so I don't think it's that big a deal. An anniversary game making references feels appropriate.
Really, I think the updated script ranges from neat little updates (Shadow's new "On your feet" is good) to sort of odd alterations (new recorded lines and some old animations not lining up, for example). Generations' story was never supposed to be a focus, and all the script does now is just touch it up ever so slightly, I suppose.
Some old Sonic Generations-great game with a light story that now has a more "natural" Sonic, but with some of the original's voice direction charm lost.
...I will say, however, that I'm shocked Sonic Team didn't change the one major gameplay thing in Generations that people seem to agree needed work: the Time Eater fight. I'm surprised they didn't, at the very least, tone down the "homing shot" lines.
@@Traveler_of_the_Stars
I just dont think Generations being an anniversary game is a good justification for these poorly executed callbacks. We've had this exact issue with Frontiers, and that wasnt even an anniversary game. What's going to be the excuse next time we come across this in a mainline Sonic game? ARE we even going to get a "normal" game from here on out? Is it just going to be anniversary games for Sonic here on out, so they can get away with this level of naval-gazing forever?
Because that's a pretty grim outlook if that's the case.
@@felixdaniels37that should not happen anymore. But the old Generations lines were trash anyway. And the game barely has a story, so what you want them to do? Way better for the characters to have lines that make sense instead of amnesia.
@@sonofcronos7831
I'd prefer they just leave Generations as it was, dude. 3D World + Bowser's Fury did this, with all the new stuff being exclusive to the new campaign. Why it is that Generations is the game that needed to be "corrected"? It's short sighted and leads to some worrying implications for future releases.
@@felixdaniels37 because fans COMPLAINED. I agree with you that a game script should not be changed that much. But fans never shut up their mouths about the old lines, saying they dont make any sense, and it was trash.
I agree it was trash, so the changes are for the better in my opinion. But for the other fans, now the new lines are bad too?
Is 2006 all over again. Fans complained that Sonic should return to be only Sonic and Eggman and have no story. For Colors onwards, the games were basically reduced to Sonic and Eggman and having no story, exactly what the fans asked for. But them, they started to complain that the games should have story and more characters... the thing they complained Sonic should not have in the first place.
You see the problem? They dont know what they want. At least i will not be a hypocrite, i always dislike the old lines, so i like the new ones. But i have seen a lot of people that complain about everything, even when they get what they wanted.
I generally agree with your points even as someone who knows a little too much about Sonic stories (though I wouldn't say I'm serious about them anymore). My main problem with most of these are the line deliveries and how most of them just kinda stink. I really liked the Eggman scene in OG Gens and while I like some of the changes (I actually prefer Eggman's explanation on how he found the Time Eater here) it's mostly just not as well voiced due to either again the direction or Mike just not being able to hit what he did back in 2011 (I'm inclined to believe the latter considering Eggman's voice has probably done a number on him over the years).
I was really offput by the extra references but I feel like that was just a "new = bad" thing at first. If I'm okay with the line referencing Secret Rings and Colors in a game about Sonic running through his past, I should be okay with the line referencing the only other time Sonic remembered time travelling. Overall some line changes I did like, some I liked less, lot of deliveries felt off and in general, I'd rather they just not have bothered.
That being said, since they did bother, it's weird how they never addressed what's usually the one major flaw of Gens for a lot of people with the Time Eater and their voice lines.
My thoughts on Amy in recent games: Her obsession with Sonic was, from her conception, the MAIN defining trait she had. Attempting to flesh out her character is great, in that regard, but they didn’t do that. They didn’t add anything, they just subtracted the main thing. They brought Amy from being a one note character to a zero note character.
Now she’s just Girl the Hedgehog.
She always had more going on for her since adventure 1, where she clearly loves sonic but has her own principles, and will act on them even if it means to clash with sonic himself. What they're doing is bringing that part of her personality more on the spotlight, but they're forgeting to balance it out with her "crazyness". IDW is doing it much better than the games, even murder of sonic did it pretty well
Ima be annoyed if they rewrite heroes cause Amy’s entire reason to go out on her adventure was to find sonic. I really don’t want them to get rid of “sonic this time there’s no way out of marrying me” line but I know they will
@@gsm4919Idk man that sorta stuff is just weird even for a kids game. Amy from Adventure/Frontiers is how I think she is best depicted. Same with most of the cast.
@@Gatorah it’s a cartoon pink hedgehog, the lines funny not weird. And honestly I couldn’t stand Amy in frontiers she was winy and obnoxious. Adventure Amy is great tho I agree with that
@@gsm4919 Amy wasn’t really obnoxious. If anything it showed more pf her compassion
I feel like the long pause in Eggman's voice during that mirror room cutscene is because Eggman's new line is way shorter than his old one, they forgot to correct the scene to match
Then again, the Japanese script is untouched meaning there was no need to change the length from their point of view. This whole rewrite situation is on the American front.
I genuinely rolled my eyes & groaned when I heard “… ,without the time stones?”
>Genuinely good critique of a very strange but ultimately harmless choice that could have weird implications going forward
>Specifically points out how this is probably not even Ian's fault despite the understandable distaste for how wordy he is sometimes
What a well thought out and reasonable video, I cant wait for it to somehow lead to another 3 years of Ian Flynn discourse for some reason!
except Ian always wrote poor references like that and he actively doesn't like Amy and refuses to write her properly? He stated he has problems with all sonic female characters because they're either hard to justify in a story like blaze or too problematic like rouge because muh sexy and Amy because she's obsessive
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 he didn’t say that about Amy, he said that sonic and Amy’s was a “will they won’t they” that kept “dangling a carrot on a stick” and they were sometimes antagonistic toward each other somehow
@@lemon5000-tj6nv not to mention Amy has been getting "Sterilized" as early as Lost World arguably and DEFINITELY at least by Forces, long before Ian had even the tiniest bit of sway of anything mainline.
Literal "hes a boogeyman" behavior.
@@DarkAura19 I don't know how it's so hard to have civil discourse on this specific topic. Like I have my qualms with Flynn's writing personally but it's very obvious there are more pieces to the puzzle of why this didn't work that people don't wanna look at cause he burned their crops or something.
@castform7 absolutely, Ian is not perfect, the references in characters' dialouge bit he does sometimes are pretty ham fisted and I also agree with Splash that he can write characters a bit too wordy for their own good. But I still like his work. Yet for some reason he HAS to be perfect in the eyes of so many people despite him being literal leagues above the issues people had with the series from the "Meta" era (god I hate calling it that, but that timeframe).
This is a new era with tons of factors we still don't fully understand with what can and can't be done, and none of that is on Ian. He hasn't, and will likely never have, the final say on these things, so blaming everything on him is so frustratingly narrow minded and pointless.
"Hey, does that place look familiar to you?"
2011: "Yeah like that one time!"
2024: "Absolutely, isn't that chemical plant zone? The second level in the 1992 sequel to sonic the hedgehog on the sega genesis."
I’d be fine with Amy not showing interest in Sonic if they gave her a personality. She’s barely even a character now. Just pink Sonic. This isn’t exclusive to Amy btw. Most of the main cast is one note. Only Eggman gets to grow as a person but he’s usually treated as a joke.
Buddy, we’re not in the Meta Era, stop confusing what we have now for that
@@gengargamer5657 huh?
@@shadowsansvii8715 The characters were one note caricatures in the meta era, and what we have now is nothing like that
@@gengargamer5657 prove it then. Go ahead.
@ Take your own advice, y’all haven’t proven this is actually current Amy
4:51 he’s clearly telling knuckles he ate the island
Or saying that he still still is hungry so he wants more of the island.
Bro I mentioned how I wasn't a fan of how they changed Amy to be less obsessive in the cutscenes and sone kids just started attacking me saying the changes were good to show how much Amy’s grown when in reality it technically does the opposite.
This takes place LONG before Frontiers, bruh.
@@FloofPuppy That's what I was saying.
@@ktoon4725 Oh my bad~
But yeah that's still BS.
@@FloofPuppy I’ll be honest I thought you were agreeing with me so I was saying that more as a “Thank you someone finally gets it” 😂
@@ktoon4725 I was don't worry haha
I just didn't read your comment thoroughly haha ^^;
This comment section is better than the entirety of Twitter
Eh, kinda. There are still some hateful people here, but I guess it's just better to ignore them 🤷🏽♂️
Thankfully it seems the toxic part of twitter has been driven off to bluesky. So now there is a containment chamber for all of them
I don't understand why this game needed a rewrite in the first place. It was fine the way it was, and probably the most harmless of the meta era. I hate how they went out of their way to alter Amy's character to the boring one that strips away most of her characteristics that they gave her in recent games. This further disproves this being a "character development" like it was excused before. There's really nothing that stands out about Amy anymore compared to other characters.
What's strange is that they made Sonic way more quirky than he was in OG and more in line to how his personality was in meta era games like Colors, Lost World, and Forces. Why change other characters to be more serious but do the opposite for Sonic when people have complained about his personality change for a long time? I even feel like Roger was actually better as Sonic in OG Generations. His voice and delivery was much better. It was probably his best performance as Sonic outside of Boom. Roger's Sonic has felt really weird ever since he came back to reprise his role after shortly leaving.
That's just the voice directors having no idea what they're doing, much like the writers.
The original story sucked
@@gengargamer5657 finally, someone with a brain.
@@FandomExpert1970s Finally, someone else w/ a brain here
Writing is an art that is emblematic of its time; it's better kept that way. No matter if you think the changes are for the better, you shouldn't rewrite a story unless you're actually making a remake of it.
Sonic Team did a good job? Must be an imposter-development crew
Funny enough that's ACTUALLY the case. They brought back the original level designer of Generations for Shadow's campaign, while Kishimoto wasn't even involved with the game.
@@felixdaniels37 Yes AND no, they got only 1 person from gens
The time eater shenanigans caused the old sonic team developers to be zipped across space time so they could work on this game.
Nah, they tried that with Colors Ultimate and we all know how that turned out. Generations just seems to be one thing that Sonic Team consistently cannot screw up in one way or another.
@@castform7 they never worked on colours ultimate that was blind squirrel
Santiago ate the island
I mean, it’s not like Shadow’s version of the story is too great either lol. He’s just repeating the same arc he’s had for the past decade and a half.
Eeexactly.
Some of the dialogue wouldn't even sound that bad if they'd done one or two more takes. A couple of those line deliveries are...weird.
Mike Pollock sounds so much worse honestly
3:51 The next Sonic CD remake is gonna be wild... actually the opposite, instead Amy is probably just going to stand there and give him a thumbs up from a respectable distance at the end of Palm tree panic, stardust speedway and beginning of collision chaos.
And instead of kidnapping her, Metal Sonic will respectfully but firmly request the Amy walk with him to Stardust Speedway, where she can wait on a bench at the finish line if she so chooses.
Nah let's go the extra mile and give Sonic his very own "Paul".
If ya know, you know.
@@mikeanthony3300 Sonic never liked Amy as much as Peter loves MJ, so he wouldn't care about a "Paul" situation happening. If anything, he would thank them for taking her off his back.
@zerofudou5689 Not entirely true. There are actually several moments throughout the series that hint Sonic may secretly return Amy's feelings. In Unleashed he shows disappointment when Amy fails to recognize him as the Werehog and later runs away upon saving her as the Werehog, almost as if not being okay with Amy seeing him in his Werehog form. Frontiers also has a few idle lines that mention Sonic missing Amy and he even says to himself "Amy, I should've made up my mind sooner". This could hint at a missed opportunity to confess his feelings. There's also the Twitter take down stuff (granted might not be game canon but Sonic Team has been extremely laid back on what's considered canon) Sonic is clearly upset by Shadow spending time with Amy.
@@mikeanthony3300 I think there are also hints in *_The Murder Of Sonic The Hedgehog_*
9:33 It's like if Peach started referring to a specific mountain region in the Mushroom Kingdom as World 1-1
That would just be the Mushroom kingdom
@@Skibster-w9l I mean that's kind of my point, confusing in-universe named locations with just level names that aren't relevant to anything.
Wish it had the advertised kiss scene between sonic and shadow.
That point about referring to the stages by name making the world feel smaller is so on point. It’s too, dare I say, meta. Instead of a cool snowy mountain that the characters blaze through incidentally, it’s “The IceCap Zone”. Almost like it’s some crucial landmark in Sonic’s world rather than one small part of a single adventure.
I know it's not Ian's fault, but I do have issues with his writing even in Shadow Gens. This only happens once in Shadow Gens, but his dialogue is too self referential to the point it sounds like a Family Guy cutaway gag.
He also has this bad habit of making characters speak their thoughts out loud for no reason to the point it almost feels like the game Forspoken.
But aside from the awkward dialogue and cutscene changes in base gens, it's still a great game, just now with strange decisions.
I have a theory about the awkwardness in voice direction. Maybe they were told to be more "serious" in the game. Which backfires because this game has a much higher energy feel to it.
is it like, within the levels of "smells lush and green! reminds me of green forest!" dialogue in sonic frontiers? because holy crap i already suggested a way better line than this back then
Well, Ian has absolutely no influence on the gameplay, so that's probably why the rest of the game is still great
He does seem to rely on references too much. Like he seems like a better lore keeper than writer almost.
@@JosephJohns-xi1qb He does now.
He used to be quite a decent writer. A flawed one, yes. But he could write genuinely engaging stories and character arcs
@@ryannathaniel9296 ngl I like having references to the past games but sometimes there's just way too many. There should be a balance.
SEGA just doesn't appreciate manic girl types, smh.
Need a yandere character now. Also because of that lack appreciation, Elise by default will be closer to Sonic then Amy ever will.
@@yonaguy6978i was just gonna say that
If they made Elise a Hedgehog instead of a human, then definitely.
I just wish they could've just made Amy x Sonic better instead of just making them not a thing at all anymore. Like, wtf guys.
Amy still has a crush on Sonic, that's not going anywhere
I do feel like taking away Amy's crush on Sonic is going to end up with turning her into "The Girl of the Group" who's only notable trait is, "She's the generic girl."
They could tone down the crushing or at least try and pick the time and place for her to show it vs completely gutting it from her personality.
They love to keep bringing up tarot cards but it never amounts to more than a character description blurb in her files.
Its a checklist. Remove flaws, give quirky trivia that we never see.
What bothers me personally is that in their attempt to subdue Amy's crush, they removed one of her key character traits: her energy. The girl used to wear her heart on her sleeve, always expressing her emotions without filter, THAT was what set her aside from the other characters to me. Now it's not only her crush that is subdued, it's her entire personality. When was the last time we saw her get mad and strike someone with a hammer? Even Frontiers gives more attention to her tarot cards for some reason.
@@MegaGlassguy I don't understand why Sonic characters are being robbed of their personality...like seriously...who does this benefit?!
Changing how a character acts because a bunch of randoms on the internet complain about it has to be some of the most weak minded creative intent I've seen in a long time! Sega really needs to know how to say "This is our creative decsion, deal with it!". It would do them more good in the long run...maybe they'd get an actual fanbase that isn't mindless fanboys and instead actual passionate people who like what they are making...
@@MegaGlassguy i loved her interactions in battle, making Tails sheepish and getting bitter at Cream for calling her out
@@AlienrunSpoken like someone who clearly hasn’t been paying any actual attention to the recent stories
What i like about the remastered one was that Sonic was able to interact with the characters he saved which is an improvement to the OG
7:18 Ok thank you for saying it. No offensive to the actor but the new voice does NOT suit knuckles
Dave Mitchell is an amazing voice actor but yeah I have no clue why they don’t just have him talk like he did in Frontiers, he sounded better there
It's worse by default because now we got the significantly worse Knuckles voice.
And Silver. Good god, wait until you fight Silver. He sounds TERRIBLE. It is a downgrade in every single way. You go from a great voice for Silver, to a one that sounds all nasally and complete shit. Can't wait for the mod that restores Quinton's voice because the new one is dogshit.
11:29 They took away Tails questioning where Sonic keeps the rings...
We want an answer, Sega!
I mean, Tails should already know, considering he collects rings as well.
They probably did because all of the weird fan jokes about it.
@@madengineerkyouma True!
REAL
@@NinjaGamerGirl2023 now the fans will make jokes about Classic Sonic eating the Angel Island though so idk if that's better.
Seeing Classic Eggman in the Death Egg Robot cutscene just feels wrong. The whole point of obscuring him in the portal was to hide the fact that he was Classic Eggman, saving it for the reveal later!
Yeah and it made Classic Tails' surprise a little more believable. That, and when the game first came out, I was surpised to see him too. Voiced even!
Uh, it was pretty obvious it was Classic Eggman. Why would Modern Eggman be piloting the Death Egg? If this was a big reveal for you, then you're honestly just dumb.
That’s strange. I never thought that was meant to be interpreted as Modern EggMan, since classic Sonic has only fought his classic enemies to that point. 🤔
We...already know its Classic Eggman
What reveal?? You know Sonic and Classic Sonic are working together. Did you seriously think Eggman wouldn't do the same?
True, the voice acting is really bad in the remake.
what i hate is that the people saying this is "not that big a deal" have probably never played sonic games like this in the first place to know why these changes are stupid. if it wasn't "that big a deal" why censor some of these things in the first place? rouge's backsuit cover legit makes her wings a more massive issue than her badonkers that had to be covered up for the "YounGER aUDiENce"
I played og Gens on ps3 and these changes aren't a big deal in my opinion because I never replay the Gens story since it's pretty bad and I don't enjoy it. I only replay the levels and missions in Gens without rewatching the cutscenes.
Idgaf about any of this, the rewrite is a vast improvement imo
@@gengargamer5657why tho
@@NATURALHARMONIAGROPIUSSPRITE Because it makes certain scenes make more sense, gives us a better version of Amy, etc.
They are telling you its not a big deal because they support the censorship. They cannot defend it and just want to shut down all conversation. Its an appeal to triviality. they want to push their agenda unopposed so they tell you not to care.
at 9:17, theres a SINGLE FRAME WHERE SONICS WHOLE MOUTH AREA DESPAWNS BEFORE THE CAMERA CUT OMG
08:43
Imagine if you asked a random person on the street what the name of this street is
and he says "ESCAPE FROM THE CITY"😂
Aaaarghhhh *runs away from the city and never returns to it*
It wasn't a bad rewrite at all... but yeah, I could have had the original dialogue and not have minded at all. The one two improvements I'd say exist are the fact Modern Sonic and Tails don't seem to have amnesia about the old levels anymore and Knuckles not being weaker than Amy.
that amy and knuckles thing was clearly a gag tho, that could’ve stayed the same it was kinda funny
@@axcurs I never found it funny in the first place, so honestly I'd gladly sacrifice a gag for consistency's sake, specially with how badly Knuckles has been handled in pretty much everything other than Frontiers lately.
@@madengineerkyouma Idk, I thought it was a pretty funny visual gag
@@argo9721agree
I don’t think any being able to smack Knuckles into a tree makes him weak
This controversy honestly makes me wish Shadow Generations was it's own game. Like the Sonic Generations remaster is still solid, but the unnecessary rewrites brought some baggage to the Sonic x Shadow Generations.
Like seriously if they wanted to make changes to Sonic Generations, then it should be ones like making the final boss fight feel less underwhelming, not sand down one of Amy's personality.
Are you serious? Some rewrites to an already "nothing burger" of a story bring the whole experience down a peg or two?
@@martinaguiluz4063
Yes, considering the changes are universally worse across the board. What was even the point of bringing Ian to this remake is the dialogue is going to be this terrible?
@@martinaguiluz4063 Going from "nothing" to "questionable at best, bad at worst" is indeed a downgrade, yes.
It never would have gotten made if it wasn't attached to Sonic Generations.
@@felixdaniels37 You say that as if they changed the whole story of dialogue to the quality level of 06 when in reality it's not as bad as that. Are some of these reworked lines flat? Yes. Are some of the OG lines better? Yes. Are these rewrites so bad that they ruin the story (which is pretty nonexistent) and its characters? Definitely not.
Didnt realized it was rewritten until I heard knuckles speak
My biggest concern with the changes is that I would have liked for them to add an opinion to still be able to play the original cutscenes, as Sega has been delisting the original Sonic Generations, meaning that it’s going to be harder for people to play the story as it was originally intended if they wanted to play it that way. It’s almost like pulling a George Locus, where the edited version becomes the only available version. Though it’s still possible to just look up original cutscenes online, so maybe it’s not that big of a deal.
dont forget that the OG Sonic Gen was easily Moddable. The New one is "Lovingly protected" by ENIGMA.
Actually they didn't fully delist the og Sonic Generations. They said that they won't delist it from the bundles from PC and Xbox.
wait, wait, so they revoiced all the lines and have the budget for new cutscenes, but they still haven't added dialogue to Modern Sonic after the rescue cutscenes?
YUP the "Rewrite" just makes no sense other than to SBI the Original cut scenes.
SEGA's last commandment was their most important: they asked us to ignore the evidence of our eyes and ears, and of our memories.
I miss Amy's cutesy powerhouse personality, like she's kind of a ditz who doesn't know her own immense strength, but she's still a PERSON with a brain, and not a half-girlboss who likes her friend Sonic in a completely platonic way. I fuckin hate that they're going back and reconning that even in her most inoffensive appearance here, like this isn't Sonic X bro she was perfectly tolerable in 2011 Generations.
People keep asking for strong female characters by CHANGING her instead of getting more appearances from the other female cast that's been ignored
Why does Maria in shadow gens say she's been to spagonia when canonically she was brought to the ark extremely early in her life and did not remember any of its landscapes? Shittiest reference in the game,stupid retcon.
In Dark Beginnings Maria talks about "returning" to Earth. So that implies she's spent some time on Earth. She also mentions another line indicating she must have been to Earth in the game itself.
Presumably she traveled around more when she was younger and has vague memories of it. Though I could argue its a retcon, we don't see Maria indicating she knows much about Earth in SA2. She literally asks "what is it like on Earth" which implies, yeah, she's never been to Earth, or at the very least, she doesn't remember it.
Another possibility: she wandered around White Space and visited Rooftop Run. Probably not what the intent is, though.
maybe this is overthinking it, but:
Option 1: She was older in the events of SA2 than in Shadow Gens, so maybe she forgot what it was like on Earth by the time of the GUN raid, but in Shadow Gens she could still remember a bit of Earth
Option 2: She went as a baby/toddler and only remembers Spagonia's name
Option 3 (most likely of them all) : It was an oversight from Ian cuz there's so much lore it's nearly impossible not to miss something
Nitpicky today, eh?
@@shady5595 you’re in the comments of an LS Mark video, a sonic one at that. It isn’t surprising at all lol
@@shady5595How is it nitpicky when it’s a critique on the weird consistency of the character writing?
It’s so annoying to me why they’d change such minor things to seem more “politically correct” or something, when these things were never offensive to begin with and just take away from the humor and charm of the game.
It’s a shame really.
They are either making very strange new updates or downright erasing memorable character traits.
Meh, I doubt those changes were done for mostly political reasons.
Thats not why they changed it you just made a Really weird assumption here. None of the OG jokes were politically incorrect
I doubt they changed the dialogue for politically correct reasons. They changed it to coincide with the current way the characters and games are written (like how Frontiers and IDW comics are written). Rouge's back was censored because of that though.
It was not for "politic" reasons, you are stuck in 2016.
Yea... not a fan of the changes with Amy 💀
4:50
Knuckles: “Thanks, Sonic. Now then, tell me - where’s the rest of my island?
Sonic with an island shaped stomach: “Oh, I haven’t seen it.”
It's weird to me that they rewrote the cut scenes. I wouldn't have thought that would happen. I dread the day other sonic game have this happen.
Thank you for not blaming Ian
He is still part of the problem.
@iceman92211 how?
@@BillyBobJoe-d3f because he chose to make this awkward writing.
@iceman92211 no he didn't if you watched the video he says that it was not reanimated it that made it awkward
@iceman92211 he's made good stories before idk why people have the urge to find bad things about ian
The funny thing is that Shadow Generations is more consistent with the original game because for the most part Shadow doesn't talk in the cutscenes where you find characters just like the original
Honestly, this remaster makes me kind of not want Adventure remakes anymore, because they would definitely rewrite everything and change almost the entire story and don’t get me started on Amy because since they removed her love for Sonic, nowadays if they remake the games with her current writing, it would just not make any sense, and would just feel as a random female character that exist because reasons.
No one removed her love for Sonic in this game,stop saying this bullshit
@@user-vivi228not removed but toned it down. Ian flynn admitted this himself
So being overly obsessive is the only way to show her love to sonic? That's such a weird point,heavily disagree with the whole comment In general,the dialogue change barely affected the core story,if an sa 1 and 2 remake happen it wouldn't be that different it would just be changing some awkward dialogue
@@muanims you ppl keep saying “obsessive” and then it’s just playful flirting, just say u don’t understand Amy as a character
@@lemon5000-tj6nv ahh yes because chasing around in heroes and telling him he HAS to marry her isn't obsessive at all, amy can still love sonic without her being pretty annoying about it,and she was VERY annoying in games like heroes and og generations
rip angel island classic sonic ate it
He was just really hungry
Somehow I'm not surprised. They put so much effort into the Shadow Portion of the game, the rest was basically an after-thought.
The whole Amy sonic thing has always been debated and interpreted ever since Sonic cd.
I doubt there’s ever gonna be a way to make the people happy tbh
I wasn’t too bothered by the changes , except for the bit where Amy didn’t push Knuckles into a tree, the original bit was funnier.
I'm okay with that change. It teaches girls not to hit boys. Which I respect.
This is one change which I like. It made Knuckles look pathetic.
@@Gnidel I just that It was humorous bit, nothing to overthink about
@@BugsyFoga Some people do try to use that scene to call Knuckles weak.
@@NebulaSonNever seen that be the case
I like how shadow now says "on your feet" in the final sonic generations cutscene it feels more in character than "you got this sonic" its still clear hes confident in sonics ability but now he doesnt sound like emo mickey mouse
My thoughts, pretty much. Most of the changes I felt were for the worse (unfortunate as I thought if Flynn's more maligned writing quirks would be best utilized anywhere, it'd be Generations), but at the same time, it's Generations. The script was never outstanding for it. My only real compliment towards the original is that it was probably the best script Pontac and Graff penned (I think the highs in Colors and even Lost World are higher, but the lows are also so much lower), but that's not saying a whole lot. I just think it's in an odd space, where in its current state, keeping the original script would have been better, but I think if they went all the way with the cutscene revamps Ian could have cooked.
Idk, either way, it's hard to warrant getting super hot and bothered about the rewrite, though discussion is warranted and good. Anyone looking at this as justification to hate the remaster or dogpile Ian again is being a bit silly, though, imo.
P.S. Sega can we stop being weird about Amy, she doesn't need to be "fixed" just because a vocal minority think she's too obsessive. Ian has written her just fine in IDW, let him cook.
It's funny they rewrote it but the Japanese dub remains unchanged. You can pretty much ignore the rewrite if you're Japanese.
As usual the west gets the trash M O D E R N A U D I E N C E S version.
That confirms it. Its all on localization. INb4 SBI like company worked on it.
Yeah Japan is a differnt ball game,like how Amy is still trying ti go afer Sonic,,which is annyoing but all well.
Japan once again gets the better script, just like in Frontiers. The changes being the result of the localizers actually make a lot of sense if true. May also explain the Rouge censorship because localizers often vouch for prudish changes like this. They might have complained about Rouge being too hot for them lmao
"NOOOO NOOOOO NOT THE CARTOON BAT TIDDIEZ! SHRINK THEM! SHRINK THEM! AAAAAAAH HER BACK! ITS BLINDING MY EYES!!!! TOO LEWD!!!!! COVER IT! COVER IT!"
but the japanese version is changed
2:23 2:56
I like this picture. It's just like "This is totally not LS Mark! See! This guy has the Splash Dash channel icon on his face! Mark doesn't have that!"
"DR. EGGMAN??!"
[10 Years later]
"IT'S THE LAST---!"
Problem is I played the original to death so can’t justify the full price tag.
I’ll wait for the sale in November.