The CS:GO Coaching Scandal Is Getting Worse...
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2022
- With just days to go before the Major, The Esports Integrity Commission issued charges against three more players in connection with the coach spectator bug.
ESIC’s ruling means that three teams are attending the Major without a coach. But with the community split on the timing of the announcement and the final report set to hand down even more bans soon, it feels like we just can’t get away from CS:GO’s coaching bug.
Let’s dive in.
Written & Hosted by: Josh Bury (@ThrownGauntlet)
Edited by: Matthew Massey
Thumbnail by: Bennett Grainger
Produced by: Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick) & Danny Burke (@lurkeyburke)
All footage courtesy: pastebin.com/K8KUNtr1
Music used under license from Associated Production Music LLC (”APM”).
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Valve banning more coaches then cheaters
Its not valve banning them its esic, two completly different orgs, also the coaches are cheaters so idk what you are talking about.
@@julose2678 u don't play much MM, eh?
Than
@@julose2678 woooosh
@@sPain4 cant be a wooosh if the joke doesnt make sense.
Although there's coaches that proven exploited the bug knowingly there's also some coaches that encountered the bug by coincidence and they just confused. There's must be review for coaches that only got it for few rounds and didn't try to take advantage of It.
Did they inform officials about it?
yes and those ones weren't banned. There were a couple that came across it and moved the camera away so they couldn't see what was happening with it. Of course those ones are aren't in trouble
yeah, we watched the video too.
@@t1mg no man. This is where not only thescore gets this fked up, but ESIC is the main culprit. It doesn't matter if you gain nothing by staring at the sky, the wall, turn your monitor off stare at the floor.
You're getting banned.
And I will iterate this very important aspect why thescore fked up so badly. They say the static bug CAN ONLY BE INTENTIONALLY PROCURED. And can you think of the sheer number of games that coaches spectate and/or play? Can we not get someone who actually has a competitive CS background to corroborate before bans are made?
🤯🤯🤯
And yes, my message may come off angry. Because I am. "Innocent until proven guilty" is probably NOT the way to go about this - but now we are tackling "guilty regardless of obvious innocence". And thescore, which honestly, I love, for its' entertaining videos - cannot even fact check this most basic aspect that one does not need to intentionally come across this bug?
Guys... it's something as simple as grasping "drivers crash into things; therefore it is intentional". Yes, drivers can intentionally crash into things. But now you're claiming the former. Surely, if you ever were found fault of a vehicular accident, you meant to cause it. Doesn't matter if someone crashed into you but the insurance companies found you liable somehow. Nope. You intentially caused this.
Honestly... so rough knowing so many people's lives are unfairly uprooted by this bullshit debacle.
@@KeefeL no, there are a shit ton of coaches that got the bug and didnt get banned, cause they informed officials about it. If you even accidently get the bug and you dont inform anyone or dont do anything about it then you deserve to get banned.
tbh i think valve is partly to blame here as well. how can a bug this substantial be in the game for so long??
probably nobody reported it because people who know it (which are the coaches) wanted to exploit it.
They didn’t know 😂
zews has reported in 2017, they didn't care
based
@@tcholorock you know any article of him reporting it? I can't find any
I know nothing about competitive cs. Basic question: where does a coach normally ‘spawn’? What is their normal (intended) pov? Thanks
They just spectate the POVs of their team members
They should be able to only look the teams pov. The coach shouldn´t even spawn, just look from the teammate eyes.
Basically a first person view of the team member's pov, same as val. They shouldn't be allowed to see anything else beyond that.
The intended POV is their teams' players. The bug allows the coach to choose their "stuck" spawnpoint from a place where his teammate died. Not entirely sure how it works but yeah
first person view of all his team members..
The one thing that really annoys me about this is those 3 teams affected at the Major being Spirit - 9z and Imperial were told 3 days out from the Major that their coach was being banned... ESIC have had this information at latest from March 2021.. why ban the coaches 3 days before a major so that the teams can't get a replacement. Absolutely poor timing and disruptive to the biggest event of the year for CSGO
You know i think its fair, they gained an advantage in other events so its fair they have a disadvantage in another.
based
@@innobius4898 Imperials coach wasn't coaching them at the time he used the bug how is it fair on them? Don't get me wrong I think out of the 3 teams affected Imperial are the ones that don't exactly need a coach, wealth of experience in that team but even with that said... Both 9z and Spirit coaches had they been banned when ESIC received the information - their bans would already be over.
Its just dumb to think they did it purposely cause waiting for 3 days before the major doesn't help anyone
Don’t cheat then.
Integrity is critical to the future of esports, and proper reporting on that integrity is just as critical. Keep doing the good work.
100%, no 100000% where is the other bans...
Idk, thescore made the timing of the investigation looks like a minor factor, when ESIC had these "cheat proof" for 1 year. They literally choose to release it 3 days before the major on purpose to affect the teams and the competition.
Most of these guys would have been released from the punishment already, but zakk for example is banned for the first major he attended on his whole career because got stuck on the map for 2 rounds 3 years ago.
Not to mention some coaches on the first wave of the bug gave all the comunication of the team on the match, but got punished anyway. ESIC is not saving CS from cheaters, just trying to get attention.
Assuming ESIC intentionally chose to release the information 3 days before the mayor literally makes no sense. You should always ask yourself: Why would it be in their interest to do that? The problem is that ESIC lacks the resources (especially in terms of manpower) to effectively investigate these allegations in a timely manner. The coaches were found guilty and had to be punished. The timing is unfortunate but definitly not intentional
@@lukasbehrendsen912 it would be in their interest because now everybody is talking about them and about these coaches being banned. If they banned them a week before it would be just a small hltv thread at most, no one would care. They know how to get attention really well
Lesson learned: if you see anything weird you better report it, call it, signal flare, sirens, whatever it takes so you can’t be held responsible later.
I can just imagine a coach having a flare in hand just in case they get a bug. can never be too safe.
This bug is in the game for so long, the only thing that Valve did was ban EVERY SINGLE coach that suffered from it.
Not suffered, but misused the bug for advantage. If you get the bug, quit the game, rejoin.
@@kskiran08 The video itself says it "those who suffered the bug" and "in some cases they didn´t even comunicate with players", some coachs didn´t knew about the bug and/or how to fix it. Right now we all (most in reality) know about this, but this investigation started from a lot before, is easier to look at it from retrospect.
Tbf there was alot of coaches that even reported the bug to valve years ago and nothing happend. Some even got banned when they reported it. Valve don't care. Never has, never will!
you would be surprised what bugs can fly under the radar for a long time...this isn't the first instance of a bug like this going unknown for a long period of time...it just matters if its found and reported. well yea you ban bug abusers..
@@Faym99 coaches(as well as players) are required to stop the round and immediately report upon finding any bug or glitch in the match . If the coach didn't do that they are hella sus . Because I know a lot of coaches who experienced the bug and reported it immediately and they are doing just fine.
Congrats, now you have to open the starcraft book without question. Looking forward to it.
Now I am interested in the Starcraft book... I actually watch tons of Sc2 but never heard about huge scandals there...
I'm interested about the starcraft part. Please make an episode of it!
I think now we need an episode on the Starcraft book ngl
the persona 3 poster in the background is awesome
There are A LOT of assumptions going on to this videos.
There are videos showing one of the coaches trying to disconnect. There's another video (from the first ban wave) showing the coach reporting the incident and asking for a tech pause.
The bug is... a BUG and it can't be said that it has been set up by every coach in every occasion (not even the static one).
ESIC is just handling it very poorly and sincerely is being deservedly called out for it.
Do a video (or would it need a series?) on 'the Starcraft book', there's lots of new esports fans that need to know the history.
was that a hint for a future starcraft episode...?
I feel like this been going on for a year
"It's Valve's fault for letting it happen for so long"
I'm pretty sure in the contract everyone agrees upon when they starts playing there is something about no bug exploiting and that Valve wont be responsible for anything that happens because of bugs.
and a deal is a deal.
I don't get people who defend cheaters and abusers, you make a good point. There's a reason the olof boost is considered an "illegal" boost. Cheating is cheating, just because you aren't using external software, doesn't mean u aren't a cheater when caught
@@AliMer20 olofboost wasn’t really the same thing as coaching bug though. At least from what I remember it was a perfectly normal boost which ldlc just couldn’t figure out where it was coming from.
Whereas the coaching bug literally was like them having a spy camera anywhere they wanted on the map.
@@AliMer20 the olofboost wasnt even really a bug. It was unfair but it wasnt a bug. So I think that comparison isnt really fair. But I do get ur point
if you didn't know valve controls almost everything at these events
@@julius8367 this is true. There was a tournament stipulation regarding pixelwalking, but there was nothing about multiman boosts. Honestly, the T side 4-man boost to look into heaven is so extremely similar, it's a joke why a replay was even enforced...
Maybe the French were a little salty about getting scouted in the face with an insane lead. Maybe public opinion had something to do with it, since Fnatic weren't liked by most of the viewers (and understandably, as well. Who wants to get a handshake rejection after being shouted at after losing a game by your own countrymen, whilst on camera)
Public image was not in their favor, even if there were no rules broken, unless one has a skewed interpretation of text as twisted as the Taliban... man, just wanted to throw it out there.
I'm by no means a fan of Fnatic or any Swedish team, but just a comment for contextual information. Maybe my opinion of JW in 2014 was enough of a reason to piggyback the public perception. I felt some sort of sympathy after their forfeiture and didn't agree nor hold any malice, that is until the pig would incessantly call Ropz a cheater. Maybe he's so used to playing with one, Robin's superior game sense and skill seemed just as fishy as prefiring a random wall in Cache.
End of ramble
we need a thescore esports Bad News Eagles story
Now I’m fucking stoked for the StarCraft book
song / background music name ?
If ESIC doesn't have the resources then maybe they shouldn't be giving out such harsh punishments...
I kinda miss the old don't @ me music
Last time I heard that 37 coaches were banned! But it's getting even worse!
Why don't tournaments just have a person check on the coaches screen every so often on both teams?
Let's remember when S1mple talked about how the reflections in the glass could allow him to snipe the other team, and this is a guy looking at his monitor all the time
just play without coaches? like in 1.6
wow....Josh is alive
ESIC(Extra Slow In Catching Cheaters)
Well the coach could do it in this tournament and end up hurting those player on that team making any wins less valid…suppose that one of those 3 teams affected made it to the grand finals or even won the major how would that affect the players if their coach cheated?
no, the competition is LAN, wich means its offline
And on tournaments like this they have admins standing around there to see if any of fishy stuff is going on
but why only ban the Coaches? shouldn't they ban the team's also since they where getting the info from the coach anyway that still impacts the game...
Probably they would have to ban a lot of top tier players, competitive csgo would be dead
@@lol9334 it's true but it is still in category of sports as i understand it and the ban shouldn't be limited just to the coach we can clearly see the loopholes in the rules...
As a massive starcraft fan for the past 20 years lets not open that history book and for god sakes lets not repeat it. Absolutely shameful.
How can it get worse lol this was years ago...
*watches*
Oh
To be honest, I'm in favor of coaches not participating in tournaments at all. Let them be only at bootcamps, they will teach theories and tactics there. The match will always be 5v5
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read all day
@@icroosing I don't give a shit what you read all day
CSO's bad timing is kind of a trend.
They should just remove feature of coach POV
Now that esports has serious money on the line, people cutting corners for competitive advantages will increase. Even in established sports you find cheating scandals regularly. Baseball had two separate major cheating scandals withing 3 years of each other, and they're still dealing with the backlash of the most recent one. The old addage "if you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin" exists for a reason.
It does'nt matter how long you use it.
It's about you use it or not.
Shouldn't this be Valve's problem to fix? Not TOs
Yes it is the TO's problem to fix because the players and the Orgs have agreements to not use exploits and bugs. And it is everyone's fault except the players and coaches for this outrageous outcome. 3 teams, 3 coaches, 15 players at the major, It is crystal clear that the banning of the coaches does more harm than good to the integrity of competitive play and with all those involved, it had to have been intentional.
Does esic have any real power? Like does valve listen to them or any other game company with an esport? And yes serious question
i wont ever support a team who uses this cause this . im about to call that team team forsaken
If people have learned anything from pro sports, teams don't accidentally cheat and they certainly don't risk cheating without taking advantage of the advantages.
Luckily it doesn't matter whether they told players, even tho of course they did, because cheating is cheating. Feeling bad for any punishment is wild imo.
But the bug actually happened randomly most of the time. A lot of the coaches didn't even know what was happening and suddenly they were in the bugged position, and because they didn't know exactly what was happening (and also because most of the coaches don't even stay at their pc, most of them like to be behind their players) they took like 2 or 3 rounds to realize it and report the situation. It does seem unfair to me to punish these guys, even more so because they didn't even capitalize in the bug, they were clearly just confused with the situation... I'm all for punishing the guys who intentionally got in the bugged positions, these guys should never be allowed in any tournament ever again, but the other ones (which is the vast majority, actually) seems really unfair
A good example is Guerri, Furia's coach. They had the communications recorded for that match, he didn't say a word about any kind of info he could've gotten from the bug the whole time. He could even prove that as soon as he realized the bug had happened he minimized CS and left to desktop screen. Still got heavily punished. Makes no sense at all
@@cassiopiao1910 Did he reported it? I am sure there's such a thing as reporting a bug and if you don't use it, just turn it off or something.
@@TempestaDominus everyone agrees that reporting it would be the best thing to do, even the banned coaches themselves, but that's not that simple. They probably spent the whole day before preparing for the game (if not the whole week), they had millions of things related to the game going through their head. Suddenly they encounter this bug that never happened to them before, in the heat of the moment it's not that simple to make the best decision on what to do, even more so because they didn't fully understood the situation. They still didn't use the bug, like on Guerri's case, he could even prove that he minimized the game, and still got banned...sure, he should've reported it, but I don't think he deserved to be banned for this long for just that. Maybe a very small ban, or a fine or even s warning would've sufficed.
I think if the coach get the glitch, they must point their camera up, disconnect and immediately declare it's happened to avoid a ban.
Well yeah, normally you would report such a thing or at least confirm it with the organiser so you won't get shit on later.
@@TempestaDominus the look up part is the big part of my suggestion. if they notice, they look up immediately, so they are safe from being banned. That way they can't gain information accidentally.
4th coach is Zonic
Fucking fix the bug
Either expand field of vision in video or remove the constant hand gestures, the flailing hands on edge of screen distract viewer
I think they're being way to harsh with this. If you get a bug like this for the first time, it's more than understandable that your first reaction is "wtf?" followed by "can I undo this somehow? " followed by the round ending and it fixing itself there not being a problem anymore. It might not be protocol for things to go this way, but these people are not going to be focused on protocol in the middle of trying to observe and analyse a match. They deserve some leeway.
yeah for coaches who had this situation happen to them, i imagine they just thought that it was a wacky bug not worth reporting.
@@speedforce8970 especially when the game is loaded with em in the first place. I mean when you're spectating someone you can hear things that they can't... and that's just an accepted quirk of the game
@@hxrl5838 I...don't think that should be accepted? Especially something that can possibly give advantage. At least report it and have it on writings that you did report it so you have something to back on later if you accused of cheatings.
@@TempestaDominus hindsight is a great thing
@@hxrl5838 And same with due dilligence.
to be honest i think the hltv confirmed podcast that covered it was really good :)
Make a video about the new Riot and Moonton issue
U don't have cypher cam
Well there is bug for that in our CS
A show called "Dont @ me" asking me to like subscribe and get notifications.
OK grandad maybe go back to bed now
The pro scene in cs go has more to hide than a mere coah viewpoint exploit. alot more to hide.
Shit yeah
CS "BUG" GO
I have always hated when people cheat I mean if I'm in a high level of gaming I would like my opponent to give his best performance that he could, no cheats, no bullshit,
This bug is becoming a features lol
Video suggestion: Bogdans Law
ESIC: valve please fix
Hey I miss very much that guy with beard and ponytail that always makes video about Brazilian CS, pls come back, we love u, if someone make a video about imperial and it's not you, I am crying, for real ✊❤😥
Feels like ur apple nudging me
I wonder how it got worse
Luckily enough I got this video to inform me
Ban valve not the coaches.
remember when zonic got caught but he wasn't given any suspension because at the time he was in another team (vitality)?
these coaches are in whole new different teams from the ones they used the bug YEARS ago too, ESIC is a joke.
edit: great video! :D
Yep, but Zonic is European and works for a t1 European team, he will never be punished the same way as peacemaker, even though their situation is exactly the same hahahaha completely ridiculous
Pls fix counter strike beyblade offensive
Esports as a whole seems to be spiraling downhill recently
How so
What fairness and integrity is being held up by banning the coaches 3 days before the highest level of play. 3 teams had their coaches banned without being able to replace them, so that means that 15 OTHER PLAYERS got punished in an ignorant and inconsiderate crossfire. There must've been more than plenty of people reviewing the situation to know that they should be more considerate to those who are not even aware of a possible cheater on their team. 9z absolutely got fucking robbed of their chance at the major that they rightfully earned and more people should be shunning those responsible for this. Imagine being an outsider to this situation seeing new name players coming to the most prestige tournament of the game then being BLACKBALLED. this represents the CS community in one of the worst possible lights.
The problem is that their are not plenty of people. Everyone who blames ESIC for "waiting" should work for them to increase their manpower.
It's really easy.... don't let coaches spectate for online events. They aren't at a PC when their teams play at lan events.
They are behind their players and see their monitors on lan, so they can't cheat but they litterally see their team povs.
It would be much harder for them to help with the gameplan during timeouts and such if they can't see anything of the match, and if you think they shouldn't that's another debate.
@@laggybear829 yes and they can do that same thing when they play at their team facility. We are talking about teams good enough to be in the major. Teams playing at the tier 1 level. It pretty clear they can't be trusted at this point.
@@laggybear829 They can also not have their own monitors if they won't use it, just in case such bugs happens when they are away.
Hunden back at it again
ban permananetly
I know its not possible to know, but the players who knew their coach was using the bug should be banned as well.
well, then Heroic shouldn't be here in this major :D
If that's the case, no team would be left to play in the tournament.
I think both valve and ESIC have embarrassed themselves with this one tbh
why didnt any coach häve the fking dignity to report it immediately that wouldve given that coach much respect.
ayo
If Valve ever maintenaced their game this wouldnt even happen. *shame bell*
Very true!
What the fuck happened now
I comment to help statistics
I just like the video when the page gets loaded
Valve fix ur game :(
Ong
A HUGE mistake you guys made, the bug is NOT only met intentionally. In fact, most of the coaches banned got the bug randomly. Some of them learned how to get it intentionally and exploited it for information, but most of them didn't even know what was happening.
Yes, what they did was wrong. But they should not have gotten banned before the major. For these teams, the major is everything, they need a coach to lead them.
blah, coaches are overrated... silvers dont need em =)
“Just days to go before the major”
Uploads after day two of the major… well done geniuses!!!
so watching CSGO TOURANMENT IS USELESS THEN
Seems logical enough on the surface to think to tell tournament staff about an issue with your client, but if you reboot and it goes away just fine, a lot of people probably didn't even think anything of it. "Oh look, another whacky CS bug, haven't seen this one before." Punishing coaches who experienced these bugs entirely on accident and also obviously didn't use it to their benefit just because they didn't report them is insane. And also really stretches the definition of what's considered an exploit. Accidentally stumbling across a bug and troubleshooting it on your own in less than a round is about as exploitative as giving somebody back their money because they calculated payment wrong at Wendy's. All that goes double for the coaches who had one of these bugs crop up and then resolve itself in a matter of seconds. That's hardly even notable. Though in those cases, I imagine those coaches aren't being punished, at least not yet.
The painful reality is that they are getting punished. If you come across it and don't remember or exploit it, you're getting banned. No exceptions
@@KeefeL yeah, it's just really cheesy that all these systems are supposed to function and if they go wrong, even if you don't think something was worth reporting, it's your head. Can't wait to see random stoppages mid-game for innocuous bugs that can be easily troubleshooted because they've now put the responsibility on coaches to make sure everything's functioning. 😑
@@Spleenatron9 not what I am trying to vaguely convey
Don't @ tarot cards
eSports was doing really well until TWITCH RIVALS started
Let me throw the shit in the fan: until someone discovers the bug and makes it illegal, it's merely a feature that actually SHOULD be exploited to expose how bad the software is. This might be the only way to show that the fault is actually on Valve for allowing such bugs into production in the first place. What compromises competitive integrity is lack of both quality assurance and will to improve the software the competition is built upon, yet Valve always gets away with this bullshit and the players, as always, pay the price.
I agree.. This brings back memories of Crouch Jump-peek on Inferno half wall and Olofboost. Bugs which were unknown to people prior to pros using them to their advantage and then they were fixed as soon as they were discovered.
ESIC and Valve really need to get their head out of their asses and make sure no team plays with a handicap in the biggest tournament of the year.
💀💀
being honest, that was all Valve's fault, CS is almost 10 years old rn and there's still plenty of bugs, yes the coaches that abused it need punishment, but not lifetime ban, perhaps 2 years without high level coaching, cus in the end, we are all humans - could you imagine the stress of being a pro coach playing against top 30 teams and then you suddenly bugs out, would you disconnect right away like a fucking good samaritan? maybe it's your career that's in line, maybe your team lost 7 rounds in a row, maybe you were at the toilet at the time you bugged out, and in anyway you get permabanned from the game that you put your whole life into, only because Valve couldn't care less about their games and community. fucking fix your game Valve, wish ESIC more empathy
ESIC, PGL and probably even more were also responsible for making the decision of the timing of these bans, definitely not just Valve. Yes ESIC, PGL, Valve are at fault and yes the bans were targeted. This doesn't hold up ''Fairness and Integrity'' its trying to push those not wanted down.
coaches shouldnt be able to talk to them while a game is live regardless if they have a view or not can you imaging a league of legends coach havning live stream up while being able to talk to their plays its makes 0 sense like wtf big brain valve
A small few ruin it for the majority. Welcome to the Real World.
Seems like some serious bullshit to me. If I got banned because my game bugged out out of my control I would be sueing. Defamation of character. Thst is literally career ending.
lol that’s some kid bullshit
Bro did you watch the video? He said the bug had to be set up intentionally.
@@MistarCalvin im referring to the third person one where it was a software issue and not done intentionally.
@@MistarCalvin Actually, every source says that all the bugs can randomly start. Thescore is the first one that i saw saying otherwise. The third-person version can't be setup unintentionally, acording to ESIC, but it dont make the other version always intentional.
You said that but Valve is a big corp here, in order to sue, you need alot of money and time, on top of all that ur not even guarantee to win the cases. There is no other choice than moving on tbh
say it with me folks
if you don’t have the resources to properly investigate these bugs, then you shouldn’t be the one investigating
why? dumb take
We love thescore esports
The static bug required set up and intention to pull off. I'm fine with the bans for that. The other two, the only sin the coaches committed was failing to report the bug. That really shouldn't be their jobs. This is an issue with the tournament organizers and Valve, not the coaches. TOs could have easily set up a system to monitor and record the coaches computer, like they do the players, which would have cleared the situations up as they happened. ESIC in this case is doing damage control for piss poor development from Valve and 3rd party software creators for these events. By blaming the coaches for not reporting, rather than pointing out how easy tournaments could have prevented the situation in the first place highlights their conflict of interest. They can't do what they want to do without support from developers and tournament organizers, so they can't assign blame appropriately and are instead trowing the support staff for these teams under the bus.
these guys are playing for thousands of dollars, cheating in major events is fraud. While not all were probably intentional, something needs to be done. Right?
val better
The last bug was totally involuntary, Its horse crap to punish people for a game flaw. Fix the freaking game and stop blaming the players.
I might be an asshole, but the plug on "if you enjoy hearing about competitive integrity" segment in the begining might feels a bit too obvious. On a channel that covers esports, a safe assumption of 20% of your viewers will be interested about such. Don't mind the self promo but think another hook to subbing would be more effective.