I might not need my vintage Space Echo anymore...
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- Help me pay for new tape
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Cheers @BOSSinfoglobal for the consideration.
Tape Echo was serviced by soursound.com (hope he still does it)
I cut a lot to keep this a reasonable time, the first cut was about 90 minutes. Things I cut that still want to mention, for the real gear-heads, I tried to get an RE20 to compare as well, and may still do that for a video on shooting out tape style delay pedals. That would also include the El Capistan, and more budget friendly options. Also has me thinking of the Empress Echo System, the DD500, or the Strymon timeline, things that (on paper) do way more at a similar price point. And the value of a focused goal of sounds on ye ol 202.
This is in part an experiment; can I do a good detailed video and cover genuine first impressions in one video, and I think the answer is yes, we'll see how the people react.
0:00 Intro
3:17 Unboxing
4:01 First Sounds // SH101
4:46 Fixed Head Tape Echo Crash Course
7:17 Back to Sounds // SH101
20:21 Vintage VS Modern
36:40 More Sounds // Juno 106
38:07 Stereo Behavior Pondering
39:47 Stepping through System Settings (Cut some for time)
43:07 Long Winded Conclusions (50% Complaining)
![BOSS RE-202 & RE-2 Space Echo [Upgrade From RE-20? And Why Use A Space Echo Anyway?]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QcNEdUoexqo/mqdefault.jpg)
![BOSS RE-202 & RE-2 Space Echo [Upgrade From RE-20? And Why Use A Space Echo Anyway?]](/img/tr.png)
That SH-101 sounds so amazing. There is a reason it is so loved by many.
I love how it’s almost like an instrument in itself. Sounds so sweet. Great show as usual.
Very true, it gets interacted with all its own
Best explanation I have ever heard for the heads on a tape echo.
🙏Thanks!
Yeah fair enough send it my way
Dang, shipping to this person is probably really expensive. You can send it my way and I’ll pay for shipping
You two have to race for it
This channel is so rad, thanks for doing simple straight ahead dives into stuff, Jorb:)
The feedback peaks and distortion sounds so nice on the 201. Never heard one with an SH 101 before. So many lovely sounds.
I skipped to the 20min mark but the vintage has a dead giveaway, the pitch wobble. That and the EQing/high roll off being accented as the repeats continues. Otherwise they sounded close. Those difference is neither good nor bad by the way
As usual, excellent video, Jorb! I very much appreciate both the comparison to the 201 and also the reasoned perspective on their similarities, differences, and applications
Thanks for this demo! You do really great work my brother. Love the long form demos. Keep rockin’
Much appreciated, I like the structure of this one a lot
i grabbed this because i love my original ce-1’s enclosure and i love the re-201 (but probably could never afford one now). glad to see someone who totally gets it. there really isn’t enough difference to me to make the vintage unit’s differences a dealbreaker
Man, you get it. Too many people get caught up in the “authenticity” and “original sound” when the reality is that vintage gear requires a lot of work/$ to keep running. It’s great for musicians who appreciate history and the magic of old tech, but it’s DEFINITELY not always going to be superior in terms of sound and practicality. Great demo.
🙏🙏 exactly my stance
True... but I think I'd rather have vintage serviced 201 over the 202 any day and would gladly shell out the servicing costs.
Your videos are always a highlight of a day. Thank you!
Cheers, much appreciated
Thanks for the fixed heads crash course ! Sure it helped. 😊First time for me I understand the principle of how it works : a great day for me.
🙏Happy to do it
One thing they absolutely nailed is how it looks, with the shape of a CE-1 and the colours and styling of an RE-201. Then they packed it to the brim with features giving pedals like the Volante a run for their money, including stereo operation. Nice to hear a demo with analog synths. Thanks.
I love that CE 1 nod. and makes me think they'll have other things in this format, with one obvious first guess...
I believe volante wins pretty handily on stereo options, but yes they both preserve a stereo signal.
THanks!
@@JorbLovesGear Yes, I think this new form factor could replace the one used for the double pedals like the RE-20, slightly smaller and with 3 switches instead of 2.
I’m activated. I was already eyeing up either this or the Strymon Volante. The space echo sound is so recognizable.
I would really love to try the volante, but used deals arent that great yet
The last Roland space echo pedal was also amazing. Nice to see people coming around on these. They’re amazing sounding pedals.
I would love to get an RE20 to compare, but 250$ is a lot for curiosity, especially when I have this in hand already.
@@JorbLovesGear I found it to be very harsh and digital sounding.. very easy to saturate as well and this sounded very unpleasant. I sold it for the El Capistan and this was a night & day difference.
Thank you for the physical crash course on tape delay heads. Awesome simple explanation. Don’t quite understand feedback intensity when you said each head somehow picks up the others but maybe it’s multiple heads activated at once? Fantastic content man.
🙏
Feedback sends the signal from the play back heads back to the record head, with less gain & maybe an eq.
As far is which do or don't feedback, which would affect the rhythm of the delay, I believe the space echo feeds back all active heads.
The Volante for example let's you pick which heads play back, and separately which feed back.
Excellent demo. It looks very fun to play.
It is! Someone else remarked that it's like its own instrument, I really think thats true
The Roland RE-201 is the sole Roland instrument I sold. I had the late 1984 model and it was build like a tank. I used it before the Ebay times where you can buy tape loops online but, back in the day, you had to make them yourself by using a magnifying glass. The RE-201 needs a bit of maintenance, also. A bit of oil here and there and don't use cheap oil for that. In addition, it needs a reel to reel tape which is not available anymore, unless you take your time to find it. Mind you, it's always NOS. I used a Maxell tape back then. It's too much of a hassle to own, but then you have... the Boss RE-202. No more maintenance or tape looping anymore. Add to that, when the tape on a RE-201 got worn down, it sounded great. Until it broke. If you'd replace the tape, the RE-201 sounded differently. But, it's taken into account in the RE-202. You can switch between the old and new tape. How cool is that?
new tape is still being made
I love how the new version looks somehow vintage
Same shape as the first Roland pedals, the Ce-1.
Yeah but I also think that the „new“ design makes the first Pedal version the RE20 instantly looks very Vintage too.
Still waiting for mine, was looking forward to your review :)
🙏🙏
@36:45 aww man wish you did the whole thing with the Juno-106 🙈🙏🏻
Your RE-201 sounds better to my ears. It has an analogue "fragility" characteristic that the digital version does not. This makes it more "human", IMO. I hope you can hang on to it. Cheers. 🙂
hey man you're doing a great jorb. i'm proud of you. Coach Z even moreso!
Wow, Boss knows your a “ influencer” now , 😊 well done....This sounds great!! & an excellent move by Roland. I really love its look as as well ( shame they didn’t squeeze a little VU meter on it☺️). Never could afford an original so this is close to an Insta-buy for me.
SYNTHFLUENCER lol.
proud moment for me, not gonna lie
@@JorbLovesGear Got to put that on a shirt... :-) Nice job on the video!
I really do miss the peak indicator like on the RE-20…
Sounds glorious on that juno!
Most things do, thankfully. lol
Thanks. You've sold me. Back in the eighties I ran a stereo sound system for my duo ( Keys / Drums / Vocals ). I had two Roland RE 301 Chorus echos that i used for stereo delay. Excellent sound. I've tried a host of different delays and reverb units, but haven't been really satisfied. But this RE202 might do.
Happy to hear it. Thats a hell of a setup, very cool
34:33 This is a great comparison. Awesome vid!
I liked my 202 until I heard your 201. There’s an eq thing with the repeats that is just magical
Great comparison! I love my El Cap pedal for live shows and the UAD plugin in the studio. To me, the sound of the boss pedal doesn't "inspire" me as much as your vintage unit (which I wish I owned) or the UAD plugin, but I think it's fine for live shows if you like the configuration of the RE-202.
Talk about in depth! Thanks for sharing.
202: really good
201: outstanding
Starlight+GenerationLoss2 = epic
Nice video mr.Jorb I am considering getting a the RE-2 pedal :)
The old Roland have this magic with the tape heads , it’s something magic and its age also…then for those who can’t afford , the Boss does quite good job in this range of product…
So interesting…….🤩
Thanks for the video mate
Big salut from France,
ViNZ.
Appreciate that, howdy from the US..lol
Your 201 motor needs new bearings by the sounds of it but i love the modulation :D
Oh yeah sucker is not running at full potential.
Is bearings an educated guess?
I am no expert but the general take from my own research is that it's usually the bearings getting gunked up that affect the motor pitch like that - having said that the pitch modulation flutter can be part of the charm :)
@@JorbLovesGear
Love your demo. I want one! Subbed
Cheers, welcome aboard!
Could dry ice cool down the moving parts of a space echo? and if so would it make the machine more versatile? (i could repeatedly twirl around the repeat rate knob). I had way too much fun doing that, because of the pitch shifting and delay at the same time. Nowadays it can’t really oscillate as well as it used to.
i could be happy with either, and only comparing them would I feel the Boss pedal didn't match up. And I do always prefer and notice the old gear to be better. But when you have a lot of it ...one does notice that its a total pain in the ass to use in lots of cases. so its better to pick and choose when to take a modern repro and when to take an old gear. In the case of this echo I passed on the old Roland one and am excited to get the Boss one. But I prefer the Roland original for sound.
Boss Re-20 and Strymon BlueSky are my fav pedals on Subsequent37.
BlueSky is dope!
Yeah, your 201 has a LOT of wow, so it was easy to hear the difference. But the 202 does sound good and authentic.
TONS its really an issue. But yeah, new guy sounds great
I’ve had a few “real tape units” (RE-201, RE-501, Fulltone, a mess of reel tape machines) and a few digital emulations in hardware. My personal all-time favorite is actually the one in the vintage 90’s Roland SP-808! The box is worth it for that preset alone IMO.
In the past I have extensively used an RE-201, and to me it's clearly a more interesting and organic sound.
Mind you, the one that I used was nearly new and with a new tape loop.
Once a real tape machine becomes worn though, you are pretty limited in what you can use it on and how much you can mix in - unless you are doing scary sci - fi.
Very true, its so unmanagable.
I have an HH multi tap tape echo machine and a Roland mc202. I will try some of this stuff using them :)
hows the 202 ?
@@JorbLovesGear Hi. Well the 202 is still working and sounding great. I used to program it to make techno sounds etc, but I never used it as a straight forward synth. But I have now. Once I dig my HH echo machine out, I will try to get some of the sounds you have done here.
Have you heard/ checked out the Echo Fix EF-2? This dude in Australia who used to repair roland space echos and similar machines for years decided to improve upon the original design and correct some design issues that would usually lead to the units’ failure, and decided to sell them. It’s a bit out of my price range (I’ve been eyeing the t-Rex replicator jr) but I think you’d be very interested in checking it out, reading about the story behind it.
I have seen! Actually I shared a few emails with them, one of the few things I did myself on this space echo was replace the switch, its a really unique part and I had trouble finding any suitable replacement. I got connected with them after asking around a bit, and he sold me an original one for a great price, I cleaned up all its jacks and soldered it into my unit.
The EF-2 is an amazing thing to produce and sell in the modern era, and it comes from a passion that I really respect.
i want one:) thx for the review
Cheers, happy to share
I have the Arturia emulation and love to use it, even though I have no idea if it's a good emulation or not. Can only imagine how great a real one must sound up close.
I was using the arturia one for a while, but recently swapped to Valhalla Delay which has a tape mode amongst other things and is totally lovely
my friend's dad owns one, frankly if i had the money it's one of the first things I'd buy. they're beautiful machines.
The tape delay in Logic is quite good, too.
I've only heard good things about valhalla!
Great video man!
Cheers thank!
Not VHS tape but still pretty good right? LOL
Sounds great!
Really does, what an amazing thing
I have a volante and it's great but Honestly this is appealing for its simplicity
I'm really curious to try a volante!
I likewise love this pedal, been using it quite a bit lately. Personally the *only* thing I wish could be changed (for my part, on the compact version) is a minor UI tweak: the 11 modes are kind of silly, I'd rather just have the reverb level reducible to zero and either 3 more on/offs for the heads, or a direct binary->head configuration switch (for 3 heads, you only need 7 options for that: 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111. Label that in the documentation, but following binary makes it predictable.).
That isn't the vintage gear, of course, but oh man it would make it so much easier for someone coming to this as a modern user.
To be clear, the compact version also doesn't have the indicator lights - which would also resolve this issue. It's just a minor gripe that the compact version is harder to use because of this oversight (although I stand by the idea that changing the mode dial to be more predictable wouldn't change the vintage feel at all to my mind.)
Imagine if, with future firmware updates we'd get a chorus option as well, turning it into a RE-502 effectively 🤔
wow I didn't even realize they were making that!
All pretty recent, very exciting
RE-201 has a ghost inside it
I'm keeping them in there
Volante v. RE202, any thoughts? I'm leaning Volante as I also play guitar for my music and I'm really more of a fan of the echorec/echoplex than the Space Echo. But curious if you have any thoughts Jorb. Used Volantes rune $330-350, RE-202's are $400 new (same price as a new Volante). Both have midi.
I *really* want to compare it to the Volante, couldn't get strymon on board but I am looking for used deals.
for those of us lusting after the original, much appreciated, prob go grab one...
Have you checked out the NuX Tape Core? Pretty solid clone in a smaller enclosure than the RE-201
Haven't tried it!
Trying to decide whether to sell my Volante for this. I absolutely LOVE the Volante, just getting a little bored with looking at it. Haha
I wish I had the hands on time to give you a good opinion. I think if you like the control on the volante, or enjoy playing with the stuff it has for itself, like the spacing control, or the other echo types, then stick with it.
If you just want some fresh-flavor tape delay, by all means swap.
Hey Jorb! Could you elaborate a little more on the preservation of the stereo image? I'm thinking about upgradin to the RE-202 from my Strymon El Capistan (v1). I use it a lot on my analog dj mixer with send/return system and although I've set it to stereo internally, it seems like in the actual echo signal, L & R are somewhat mixed together in a "stereo soup" so to speak. Sounds great on its own, but my old Boss RE-20 on the other hand was absolutely stereo: sounds playing through the left input would only echo through the left output and vice versa... is this the same on the new RE-202? Thanks a lot!
You know, I'm not actually sure it's been awhile. Have you checked the manual?
I do know the el cap sums l+r for the delay line.
@@JorbLovesGear thanks! Just read the same thing on the Strymon website, explains a lot..
As for the RE-202, I've got it on pre-order in local music store and we're going to test this! I hope it is a truly stereo fx engine, but I suppose it will be - just like the +10y old RE-20.
Anyways, this video has me pretty much convinced already - just like your Take 5 video (my wallet sends its regards)
Great Video
Thanks!
Would love online with the same old form factor 🎉
Much prefer the decay on the original. Great video!
Thanks! It is something special, isnt it
Last week I could buy the only RE-202 available in Berlin but I decided to purchase the good old Eventide Space instead.
Great sounds still!
Okay now we need a echoplex vs space echo which is for you haha
I havent used an echoplex that wasnt HORRIBLY broken, but I think im team space echo
It's so obvious when you are listening to the pitch shift. I wish the 202 shifted pitch more
The wow on my 201 is honestly really bad.
But I agree, I want more range on the wow and flutter control. TBH I want more range on all of it
Beside the headroom differences since this can take line level, is there a real sound difference between it and the RE-20?
I'd have to compare! Its not fair to say, '15 years of dsp improvement' but I would bet it does sound better.
the guys from that pedal show seemed to think the biggest difference was in the reverb, but that was on guitars of course
I use the RE-20 on synths all the time. Sounds great.
why is the keybed missing on your ESQ-1 in the background?
Half repaired! Having trouble getting it working again.
Where did you get the 201 repaired in the US?
Not sure if he still does it but it was Brian Sours, sour sound
Do you think it has the same algorithm that’s in Roland workstations and groove boxes ? It has all the same parameters.
I wondered this about things like the dd500 / 200, and I really dont know. I actually should ask boss, if they have shared dna with all the DSP space echo stuff
Hey bro. Good work on the demo. You'd be stoked that Roland sent you that i bet! Awesome. The re202 is a step up from the re20 (which everyone seems to have forgotten). I LOVE tape echo (dubtechno fan). The question is; what do i do with my re20 when i get the re202? Echo through echo? Kudos.
🙏🙏 I am too, high key. I did try and get an RE20, but I've gotta save my pennies for superbooth.
And you should run em in stereo, one panned each side. LOL
WOW! RE-201 is soooooooooo sweet!
it really is special
What after tapping, the repeats don't go through reverb?
You might just be hearing it not shifting the time or repeating for a bit when you tap in
I think the reverb would benefit from being before the EQ or having its own EQ. I also don't like that it is just high springy.
Totally agree. The spring blends better, maybe just with the full spectrum sound of keyboards, but I'm going to leave mine on plate
Ever use the tape delay emulation in Logic? I find it impressive, but then I've never used an actual tape delay machine.
I dont, no daws!
the funky T ripped from the 101 manual is a great idea. (I love repurposing images/text from old consumer and professional electronics manuals.)
does the manual actually have "(funky)" written in romaji beneath the katakana? just my opinion, but I'd prefer if it was just the kana...
first question I had when I saw the 202: the Treble and Bass EQ - are those Baxendall or Hi/Lo Shelf curves?
RE:Reverb (Spring) the RE-201 never had a great tank in it to begin with, in my opinion. not useless, but fairly short springs (how many, in your original?) and monophonic, so limited to say the least. additionally, digital models of mechanical reverbs rarely do their respective inspirations justice. according to the good people at Rare Signals, maker of the Transatlantic Plate plugin, this is partially due to the digital signal processing used to manipulate the impulse responses (presumably referring to such emulation plugins which utilize convolution in their modeling) to truncate reverb tails for the benefit of sound design flexibility in deference to user preference. on top of all that, many of the seminal and "classic" sounds in our collective memory that associate the RE-201 and its siblings with spring reverb stem from records (Tubby, Scientist, Prince Jammy, Scratch, Mad Prof., Coxonne Dodd, etc.) that substituted a Grampion or similar unit with much larger tank/springs/stereo signal processing for the internal spring of the Space Echo. years ago I regrettably passed on the opportunity to purchase a clean 201 for about $400, and have never owned one, so take my point of view with a grain of salt and FYI, my points of reference for the Space Echo specifically are essentially Dub records and digital emulations such as Arturia's plugin. and when I use such a digital recreation, I only apply like 1-5% of the total range of the reverb setting. sometimes I'll put it on a bus at 20-100% wet reverb only, and then place another reverb type (or two - algorithmic, plate, etc.) in the effects bus chain before/after/around the 201 spring.
Great video as always Jorb! If you had to choose one (tapeless) tape delay, would you go with this, the Strymon Volante or something else? What’s your current favorite?
Oh, just realized you uploaded your Volante video entitled “My New Favorite Delay” a few months after this one. 😅
@@burywite Voltante wins for me yess 😅😅
Does this have a midi or temp synch?
Can take midi clock, yes
Don’t be ashamed to market your merch man? You deserve money and your merch is dope
🙏🙏 🙏🙏
pitch wobble on 201 is sweet
My re301s motor died in 2009, I certainly miss it, but would rather deal with a contemporary pedal and not needing to hunt down parts. That said, I do like watching the tape move on the originals, lol
Have someone else fix it, special piece of kit!
@@JorbLovesGear unfortunately it has long traded for an Eventide H949 that worked until 2016, and that was sold to fund my modular.
I will be hoping someone gets me an RE-202 for a birthday gift, and if they do I will place a googley-eye on the head selector knob too. Perfect.
I need a small one for the new guy, i'm absolutely going to do that
"This video will be very detailed and very long" oh god yes🤤🙌
LOL hope it delivered
@@JorbLovesGear fr, great job man! This answered every question I had 🙏♥️
If you are UA-cam demoing the RE-202 and have a SH101 lying around, it’s obligatory to use the the SH. (I did too-secretly 😉)
Jorb, could you recommend a good electric keyboard that has a pretty close Rhode’s 71 sound-or just one that has a good low end? My local used scene is so dry and I am broke haha so like under $300
Oh and maybe like 66 keys?
Literally his last video 😅 ua-cam.com/video/EoFWXaZWDPU/v-deo.html
Smack a 66 midi keyboard into it and bam
You could always check reverb. There are great deals on used and older gear there occasionally
Hohner pianet T
Maybe you could score an older Yamaha CP on the used market?
Using the Yamaha Reface CP as a module isn't horrible, but it's pretty big to get for just that
Jorb, did you hear about the JunoX??
I did! Seems to sound good, but is for a market that doesn't really include me, I'm not into workstations quite yet
I have the RE-20. :)
Hey jorb sweetwater leaked the Juno x, Jupiter x but in the body of a Juno! It's 800 bucks cheaper and comes with a Juno 60 model instead of 106. Thoughts? Also looks like it comes with the jd800 of expansion
First ive heard of it!
If they wanted to capitalize on nostalgia, they should put the boutique engine in it with 12 voices & a full size panel.
Even if it can sound good, public perception of the zen core is not good
@@JorbLovesGear it sucks that people don't like it but realistically it's everything we already have from the integra sounds and fantom capabilities. What was more eye opening to me is the xv5080 is in theory the most capable and editable model. I love has sh101 tones being able to be polyphonic. I think the form factor is the biggest appeal sliders vs. knobs but either way you menu dive.
Good grief I was hoping they would do some kind of reimagining of the Juno for Roland's 50th. It looks amazing.
@@mattswanton I got the xm but I'm super tempted to get this as well I think sliders would fit to from better. It may be unnecessary but for 2k it's beautiful. I recently got a verselab and it has Juno style sounds, plus I got a Juno g, and with the xm I think I'm pretty solid I'd almost sell everything but the Juno g and verselab both pretty capable
@@legitimatefrenzy It's actually good to hear that. I've messed around with the Xm a little and love the concept, but it seems too much functionality was traded off for its compactness. I've loved every moment I've spent with either the 60 or 106 but the noise issues and maintenance reputation has always put me off. The X ticks so many boxes at this point.
It appears, under firmware 1.10, that it is now possible to modify twist.
👀👀👀
there's an iPhone app called: K7D that is the closest thing to a "space echo" sort of thing it's not quite an emulation of tape, but if you buy a TRRS 1/4" cable, you have an old iPhone with 1/4" jacks and it's better than a LOT of digital pedals....
I really want this channel to blow up
Me too lol
@@JorbLovesGear lmaoo well it shows dude!
So this one is all digital then?
analog dry through, but the processing is digital yes
I'll take it
one gear please, thank you
Do you, or anyone else here, find this to be a major improvement to something like the El Capistan?
Because I’m not sure I hear it to be that superior. Especially in the context of a band.
But don’t get me wrong, it does sound good.
I mentioned it only briefly, because I think it deserves a deeper comparison. I want one or two other options for tape delay before I do a video, but I would like to compare them in detail.
El Cap is excellent, handles line level, + is stereo in / out just like this, all for a bit less money, especially since way more are around used.
I had the El Cap for a few years after finding the original RE20 a bit sterile, but the El Cap doesn't have panel labels for half its functions, which I found clumsy. I wouldn't be surprised if emulations have improved a bit on the ten years since it appeared as well, though at the time it was very impressive.
@@JorbLovesGear would be cool if you could get your hands on a Catalinbread Belle Epoch for the comparison.
Either the deluxe or the regular will do, although the deluxe has more headroom and can take line-level synths fairly well. Nice pre amp too!
The regular Belle Epoch is finicky when it comes to hotter input levels... however it has all the mojo in my opinion (love LOVE that modulation) and can highly recommend you use it at 18v.
El cap sounds a ‘bit more analogue’ less harsh ? But I agree it’s not knob per. I prefer El cap personally.
I prefer iPad with fabfilter timeless because you can dial in the modulation you wanna hear.
Then again I worked I can run 15 simultaneous effects through my MC707 which is pretty cool if you run each channel into each other.
@@rogier5591 love my belle epoch, be very interested how it holds up.
Damn it... another item added to the GAS list.
Right on top, lmao
Strymon Volante fills this void really well too (I think the Strymon is better).
I would love to try one! Strmon wasnt into it, unfortunately.
Hunting for used though!
@@JorbLovesGear they will learn you are an influencer and rue the day
Love the RE-20 but this has memory slots .. Over Priced with subtle differences .. Space echo keeps on slipping tripping into the future . .. .... ....... ............
Watching this at 22:22...cue theremin solo
201 is way more lush and warm, the boss pedal is cool but I’d rather the RE 201
They took our Jorb
I took MY jorb
Yo Jorb, if you're not using the old one, i'd be happy to like, you know, take it off your hands. Just to help you out of course
sure yeah come get it