@Hippo136I meant I don’t blame them. It’s not their fault. I believe they are unwittingly in harm’s way, as I was, which you seem to think I am now, but unlike you I am sympathetic. They live in fear. They are too afraid to even ask me why I left. And they have known me personally all their lives. Think about it, friend. They are being held in a religion that has convinced them to follow and rely on and support an everchanging procession of human beings they have never even met, whom they only know through carefully produced media. The Bible says that is a curse. And it is because there is no spiritual growth when you rely on human beings instead of the unchanging God. I think patience and love are needed by and for us all. God bless.
Ditto!! When religious/ Biblical topics get brought up, my sister (who is typically open to hidden/ false historical teachings) nearly always ends up feeling like I'm attacking her beliefs if I offer alternative information. I continue to pray & know God is working on his end. 🙏🙏🙏 Love & patience
I think of my Savior Jesus Christ , and the two sister missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who had left all the comforts of home , friends, and family in order to teach me the truths of the Restored Gospel.I was baptized on June 7, 1980, despite opposition from family and friends and my former evangelical pastor, who yelled screamed at me in their office.I adore what my Savior has done for me, the mercy and pardon, gifted to myself through His suffering, will be the object of my praise, as eternity rolls on and on..I love the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon, both of them testifying that we are in desperate need of salvation and deliverence from the grasp of sin, through Christ and Him alone.I did NOT get sucked in to anything, nor am I held as a hostage ,I am free to stay or leave, however I have chosen to be here, captivated by the breath taking mercy extended to such a wretch such as myself. Captured by love, kept by grace.
I really enjoyed the tree with rotten fruit and new fruit analogy. That’s honestly how all of these false gospels work. I grew up with the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and pretty early on I could tell that something wasn’t quite right with what was being taught. They preached so much about the “end times” and Armageddon with a slew of things we had to do to be “prepared”. Nothing about God’s saving grace was ever mentioned. But on the occasions I read the Bible by myself - free from the influence of their literature - what I read seemed to be SO different than what they were preaching. Years later after coming to Christ, I can understand that clear difference now. They have a false gospel, and I pray they and many others who are in these cults, come to know the freedom of the true gospel in the person of Jesus Christ. 🙏🏽✝️ Awesome talk, gentlemen! ☺️
God has opened up my eyes to what the JW’s belief and it’s fascinating to me! I am reading and memorizing scripture more now haha! Praying for these poor deceived people. The devil is crafty.
Unfortunately they won't come down my street anymore...but I enjoyed engaging a lot via Zoom during the CV19 years. They were everywhere on Facebook back then and easy to engage.
I had two missionaries (mormon), visit me and both ended up quitting because of my logic. The mission president made me off limits after that. He even came to my house to rebuke me. 😂
@Hippo136 no, not really. We don’t praise anyone and my logic may not be anyone else’s logic. Evangelizing to anyone is a waste of time because it’s all a big con.
Dear Elders 1 John 5:9-13 V9. The witness of God is greater than man. V10. I believe in the Son, therefore I have this witness. Those who do not believe God regarding this record make God out to be a liar. V11. The record is that God gave us eternal life. It is in the past tense "hath given." It does not say will give us eternal life. V12. I have the Son, therefore, I have life. Dear elders, if you do not have this life, you do not have the Son. V13. It was written so that I may know that I have eternal life because I believe in the name of Jesus Christ. Dear Elders, if you believe in the Son and do not have eternal, you call God a liar, verse 10. Deut. 13:1-3 say if a prophet leads you follow a god you do not know, do not follow him. Isa. 43:10 Jehovah say there was no god before him nor shall there be a god after him. Isa 44:24 Jehovah created all thing by himself/alone. John 1:3; Col. 1:16-18 say that Jesus created all things. Jesus therefore cannot be the byproduct of a sexual union between a Heavenly Father and his wife. Isa. 43:13 and Psa 90:2 say that Jehovah is from everlasting to everlasting. As you have read dear elders, Joseph was going to refute that idea. As Deut. says you should not follow prophets like Joseph Smith who want to lead away from the God and Jesus of the Bible.
Your pastor said that members of the Church were unwilling to debate him. I emailed you guys, I'd love to discuss my faith in Jesus Christ and in his revealed word in the Book of Mormon if you'll have me. God Bless.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6). Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6). Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6). Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6). Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
99% of evangelical apologia against the church is taking random controversial statements from early church leaders out of context. They never engage with the core of the religion, so of course they haven't read the Book of Mormon.
How many mormons have read the Bible and gleemed the many passages about false prophets, false doctrine, false signs, false Christs, and ESPECIALLY the warnings about Christians (pre-mormons were Christians) with "itchy" ears?
@@Manzanita1890 ok so you have to agree that someone with around a 4 grade education of our time should not be able to create such a book. Yes and that’s JS I just described and I have a question why did you leave the church?
@@Spark_Horizion Joseph wasn’t illiterate, he wrote the book after years of studying various large volumes of early America histories and fantasy books available near him at the time. People also were well acquainted with the KJV Bible. And to your point, do I think the Book of Mormon was written by a human and not God? Yes, if written by man, you’d expect there to be errors and lies in it. Over 4,000 changes have been made to it, many during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. This presents the biggest problem with the correctness of the book as multiple eyewitnesses very close to JS like his wife, Martin Harris, and others said he translated by the seer stone and symbols would appear and only go away once every word was written exactly as it appeared. Letter by letter. Even one change after would mean he’s a false prophet and God did not inspire him. Galatians 1:8, Deut 13 & 18 No archaeology to back it up, no history to back it up. No DNA connection between American Indians and Hebrew or Egyptian. Joseph’s theology developed over time and is witness-able in the Book of Mormon today. God is three in one, two in one, and then separate as three beings then infinitely polytheistic with infinite “Gods” before our God. Book of Abraham was proven to be not of Abraham’s hand by dating of the papyri and the document was an Egyptian Book of the Dead and of magic, had not a single correct translation of any word. Joseph got the temple ceremonies from the Masonic group. Joseph had multiple wives before receiving “revelation” that is was correct. He publicly denied he practiced it. Lying is a sin. He murdered at least 2 people indiscriminately when he was shot and killed. The first vision accounts are all different in who appeared to him. He said it was Moroni, but also said it was Nephi, then it was Father & Son, then others said it was Peter. He was told not to join any of the churches but records show he did after this and then asked if a God existed. Why would you ask that if you already had first vision in 1820. Contradictions a plenty. Brigham taught blood atonement no longer recognized by church. Brigham taught Adam was God the Father, no longer recognized by church. Brigham taught polygamy was essential to enter celestial kingdom. No longer taught. Brigham and Joseph taught people live on the surface of the moon. Brigham also said people live on the Sun. Boy did they never think we’d land on the moon and verify they were wrong. Blacks could receive priesthood only when the civil rights movement happened. Curious why God follows decisions of man. Iron, horses, barley, bees, etc… did not come to the americas until after 1492 by settlers. That means the beginning of BoM is incorrect. Joseph prophesied that a man was commanded by the Lord to help him do missions in Spring. The man died before this, showing this was not of God. Joseph tried to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon to a Canadian group as commanded by the Lord. Failed. Also why would you sell the “Lord’s holy word” to non LDS? Corruption and greed.
I will tell you exactly how to talk to missionaries from the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: ''I have a testimony of my Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon! When can I get Baptized?
This is what the Gospel according to "Mormons" really is. We can access the saving, redeeming power of Jesus Christ through faith, repentance, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end. It's telling that you are dodging it. If you have the one true Gospel, why not tackle it? Our lessons are not repackaged. First Discussion: Restoration. Second Discussion: Plan of Salvation. Third Discussion: Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fourth Discussion: Commandments. Fifth: Laws & Ordinances. They complement each other, not parroting. If you were true Christians, you would demonstrate charity instead of ignorance.
I'm beginning to wonder if Apologia blocks any promotion of the Book of Mormon. If so, that is rather unfortunate, but not surprising. Doesn't seem like they want people to think for themselves. Someone can find out on their own if the Book of Mormon is true or not.
Mormons have more gods than Hindus, literally infinite number of gods since one can turn into god through exaltation and mormons believe time is infinite and had no beginning which is fallacious. The whole system is ignorant
Just call a local LDS church or show up and ask for a Book of Mormon. They’ll give you one for free 🤷🏼♂️ I’d say read the Bible. Many churches give them out for free too. Understand the literary context. Dig into cultural context. Unpack some of the original language both Hebrew and Greek. Use literary criticism. Investigate the validity of the manuscripts. Watch videos and learn about geographical sites, or travel to and see the archeological digs yourself if you have the money. Really get a grasp of what it says. What it means. The validity of it, or lack thereof. You make the decision based on the evidence. Then do the same for the Book of Mormon.
Mormons believe in a Jesus of their own imagination. They don't rightfully acknowledge that Jesus is God abd has always existed alingside the father, but consider Jesus a created being and the first of many gods, and believe that if we accomplish great works, we can become gods, too. That is not the Jesus given to us in scripture. Jesus is essential to the gospel. Different Jesus, different gospel. It uses the same language, but it isn't the same. Joseph Smith was a known conman, so I can't believe anybody would trust him over the Bible. If anyone, even an angel from heaven proclaims a different gospel than the one we are given in scripture, they are wrong, and scripture says "let him be accursed".
@URGoodSamaritan There are many different interpretations of reality so reality is subjective now? Just because someone can take a verse like how Jesus claimed to be the door and say true Christianity worships wooden doors adding to that "45,000" denomination doesnt mean anything. Not to mention the differences between denominations are majority minor like baby vs adult baptism. With proper hermeneutics, one can ascertain which one is right by examining verses in their original language, context, relation to other verses, etc.. The problem is our sin nature nature that naturally hates God which puts biases in us as to what we believe God should be. Which results in people taking verses like the door example and coming to erroneous conclusions about it
The Father has committed all judgment to the son, until the last day (John 5:22): Whosoever shall deny Jesus before men, Jesus will also deny them before his Father which is in heaven; those who are denied entry to heaven will surely go to *hell.* God the Father has entrusted his Son to do all He commands of him. But on the last day, the Father is the final judge and jury through his Son. In John 12:48-50, Jesus said all who reject and receive not his words has one that judges him-the Father. Jesus said for I have not *_spoken of myself,_* but my Father, he gave me a *commandment,* what I should say and speak. Jesus said God’s commandment is life everlasting. Therefore, whatsoever Jesus speaks as the Father says to him, that is what he speaks.
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No thank you, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I think of my still Mormon loved ones and friends as hostages. Helps me to be more patient and loving.
@Hippo136I meant I don’t blame them. It’s not their fault. I believe they are unwittingly in harm’s way, as I was, which you seem to think I am now, but unlike you I am sympathetic. They live in fear. They are too afraid to even ask me why I left. And they have known me personally all their lives.
Think about it, friend. They are being held in a religion that has convinced them to follow and rely on and support an everchanging procession of human beings they have never even met, whom they only know through carefully produced media. The Bible says that is a curse. And it is because there is no spiritual growth when you rely on human beings instead of the unchanging God.
I think patience and love are needed by and for us all. God bless.
Ditto!! When religious/ Biblical topics get brought up, my sister (who is typically open to hidden/ false historical teachings) nearly always ends up feeling like I'm attacking her beliefs if I offer alternative information. I continue to pray & know God is working on his end. 🙏🙏🙏 Love & patience
I think of my Savior Jesus Christ , and the two sister missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who had left all the comforts of home , friends, and family in order to teach me the truths of the Restored Gospel.I was baptized on June 7, 1980, despite opposition from family and friends and my former evangelical pastor, who yelled screamed at me in their office.I adore what my Savior has done for me, the mercy and pardon, gifted to myself through His suffering, will be the object of my praise, as eternity rolls on and on..I love the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon, both of them testifying that we are in desperate need of salvation and deliverence from the grasp of sin, through Christ and Him alone.I did NOT get sucked in to anything, nor am I held as a hostage ,I am free to stay or leave, however I have chosen to be here, captivated by the breath taking mercy extended to such a wretch such as myself. Captured by love, kept by grace.
I really enjoyed the tree with rotten fruit and new fruit analogy. That’s honestly how all of these false gospels work. I grew up with the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and pretty early on I could tell that something wasn’t quite right with what was being taught. They preached so much about the “end times” and Armageddon with a slew of things we had to do to be “prepared”. Nothing about God’s saving grace was ever mentioned. But on the occasions I read the Bible by myself - free from the influence of their literature - what I read seemed to be SO different than what they were preaching. Years later after coming to Christ, I can understand that clear difference now. They have a false gospel, and I pray they and many others who are in these cults, come to know the freedom of the true gospel in the person of Jesus Christ. 🙏🏽✝️ Awesome talk, gentlemen! ☺️
God has opened up my eyes to what the JW’s belief and it’s fascinating to me! I am reading and memorizing scripture more now haha! Praying for these poor deceived people. The devil is crafty.
Praise God! Thank you for pastor Wade and pastor Andrew. They are two awesome ministers of the Gospel! Love those boys
Unfortunately they won't come down my street anymore...but I enjoyed engaging a lot via Zoom during the CV19 years. They were everywhere on Facebook back then and easy to engage.
You can contact the church to send you missionaries.
@@bambie1830 I'm pretty sure my address is blacklisted
It great when they come over. They are able to eat and relax and learn the word of YHWH @bambie1830
That would be me. I'm currently in a class action against the Mormon church. So feel free to join in.
To add to the Paul Washer witnessing technique (42mins), also quote to the Cultist 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I had two missionaries (mormon), visit me and both ended up quitting because of my logic. The mission president made me off limits after that. He even came to my house to rebuke me. 😂
@Hippo136 no, not really. We don’t praise anyone and my logic may not be anyone else’s logic. Evangelizing to anyone is a waste of time because it’s all a big con.
@Hippo136 you’re welcome! Have a great day
I'll convince you if you let me come over.
I am ALWAYS amazed by the Eternal Progression aka "ladder" belief. It's pretty much why Lucifer Fell, that didn't go well.
Dear Elders
1 John 5:9-13
V9. The witness of God is greater than man.
V10. I believe in the Son, therefore I have this witness. Those who do not believe God regarding this record make God out to be a liar.
V11. The record is that God gave us eternal life. It is in the past tense "hath given." It does not say will give us eternal life.
V12. I have the Son, therefore, I have life. Dear elders, if you do not have this life, you do not have the Son.
V13. It was written so that I may know that I have eternal life because I believe in the name of Jesus Christ.
Dear Elders, if you believe in the Son and do not have eternal, you call God a liar, verse 10.
Deut. 13:1-3 say if a prophet leads you follow a god you do not know, do not follow him. Isa. 43:10 Jehovah say there was no god before him nor shall there be a god after him.
Isa 44:24 Jehovah created all thing by himself/alone.
John 1:3; Col. 1:16-18 say that Jesus created all things.
Jesus therefore cannot be the byproduct of a sexual union between a Heavenly Father and his wife.
Isa. 43:13 and Psa 90:2 say that Jehovah is from everlasting to everlasting. As you have read dear elders, Joseph was going to refute that idea.
As Deut. says you should not follow prophets like Joseph Smith who want to lead away from the God and Jesus of the Bible.
There is a class action suit against the Mormon church right now.
Curious about the suit. What's the claim?
There were mobs that hunted us like animals too, so opposition is nothing new to us.
Your pastor said that members of the Church were unwilling to debate him. I emailed you guys, I'd love to discuss my faith in Jesus Christ and in his revealed word in the Book of Mormon if you'll have me. God Bless.
You have a false Christ and a false book.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6).
Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6).
Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6).
Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
@angeladalton9946 The Bible warns in multiple places there would be false Christs (Matthew 24:23-24). The LDS (the most prominent Mormon sect) preaches a different Jesus from the Jesus of the Bible. Their Jesus was born in a different city, Jerusalem (Alma 7:10). Their Jesus cannot save you in your sin (Alma 11:36-37). Their Jesus is the Father (Ether 3:14, Alma 11:38-39, Mosiah15:1-3,Mosiah 15:6).
Their Jesus did not atone for all sin (Joseph F Smith, Doctrine of Salvation, pg 135). Their Jesus did not establish his church when he was here (Mosiah 18:17). Their Jesus is not eternally God (The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997. Their Jesus was not born of a virgin (God the Father-with a body of flesh and bones- literally had physical relations with Mary)- The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16). Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 2). (Journal of Discourse, vol 1, page 50). The list goes on. If I say I know Jesus yet my Jesus speaks Spanish, born in Brazil, and didn’t atone for my sins…it’s not the same Jesus.
Who here has read the Book of Mormon
99% of evangelical apologia against the church is taking random controversial statements from early church leaders out of context. They never engage with the core of the religion, so of course they haven't read the Book of Mormon.
How many mormons have read the Bible and gleemed the many passages about false prophets, false doctrine, false signs, false Christs, and ESPECIALLY the warnings about Christians (pre-mormons were Christians) with "itchy" ears?
Many, many times. -Exmo Christian
@@Manzanita1890 ok so you have to agree that someone with around a 4 grade education of our time should not be able to create such a book. Yes and that’s JS I just described and I have a question why did you leave the church?
@@Spark_Horizion Joseph wasn’t illiterate, he wrote the book after years of studying various large volumes of early America histories and fantasy books available near him at the time. People also were well acquainted with the KJV Bible. And to your point, do I think the Book of Mormon was written by a human and not God? Yes, if written by man, you’d expect there to be errors and lies in it. Over 4,000 changes have been made to it, many during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. This presents the biggest problem with the correctness of the book as multiple eyewitnesses very close to JS like his wife, Martin Harris, and others said he translated by the seer stone and symbols would appear and only go away once every word was written exactly as it appeared. Letter by letter. Even one change after would mean he’s a false prophet and God did not inspire him. Galatians 1:8, Deut 13 & 18
No archaeology to back it up, no history to back it up. No DNA connection between American Indians and Hebrew or Egyptian.
Joseph’s theology developed over time and is witness-able in the Book of Mormon today. God is three in one, two in one, and then separate as three beings then infinitely polytheistic with infinite “Gods” before our God.
Book of Abraham was proven to be not of Abraham’s hand by dating of the papyri and the document was an Egyptian Book of the Dead and of magic, had not a single correct translation of any word.
Joseph got the temple ceremonies from the Masonic group.
Joseph had multiple wives before receiving “revelation” that is was correct. He publicly denied he practiced it. Lying is a sin.
He murdered at least 2 people indiscriminately when he was shot and killed.
The first vision accounts are all different in who appeared to him. He said it was Moroni, but also said it was Nephi, then it was Father & Son, then others said it was Peter. He was told not to join any of the churches but records show he did after this and then asked if a God existed. Why would you ask that if you already had first vision in 1820. Contradictions a plenty.
Brigham taught blood atonement no longer recognized by church.
Brigham taught Adam was God the Father, no longer recognized by church.
Brigham taught polygamy was essential to enter celestial kingdom. No longer taught.
Brigham and Joseph taught people live on the surface of the moon. Brigham also said people live on the Sun. Boy did they never think we’d land on the moon and verify they were wrong.
Blacks could receive priesthood only when the civil rights movement happened. Curious why God follows decisions of man.
Iron, horses, barley, bees, etc… did not come to the americas until after 1492 by settlers. That means the beginning of BoM is incorrect.
Joseph prophesied that a man was commanded by the Lord to help him do missions in Spring. The man died before this, showing this was not of God.
Joseph tried to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon to a Canadian group as commanded by the Lord. Failed. Also why would you sell the “Lord’s holy word” to non LDS? Corruption and greed.
That’ll preach! 25:05
Preists (16 year old men) can baptize in the lds church.
I will tell you exactly how to talk to missionaries from the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: ''I have a testimony of my Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon! When can I get Baptized?
This is what the Gospel according to "Mormons" really is. We can access the saving, redeeming power of Jesus Christ through faith, repentance, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end. It's telling that you are dodging it. If you have the one true Gospel, why not tackle it? Our lessons are not repackaged. First Discussion: Restoration. Second Discussion: Plan of Salvation. Third Discussion: Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fourth Discussion: Commandments. Fifth: Laws & Ordinances. They complement each other, not parroting. If you were true Christians, you would demonstrate charity instead of ignorance.
I'm beginning to wonder if Apologia blocks any promotion of the Book of Mormon. If so, that is rather unfortunate, but not surprising. Doesn't seem like they want people to think for themselves. Someone can find out on their own if the Book of Mormon is true or not.
Mormons have more gods than Hindus, literally infinite number of gods since one can turn into god through exaltation and mormons believe time is infinite and had no beginning which is fallacious. The whole system is ignorant
Just call a local LDS church or show up and ask for a Book of Mormon. They’ll give you one for free 🤷🏼♂️
I’d say read the Bible. Many churches give them out for free too. Understand the literary context. Dig into cultural context. Unpack some of the original language both Hebrew and Greek. Use literary criticism. Investigate the validity of the manuscripts. Watch videos and learn about geographical sites, or travel to and see the archeological digs yourself if you have the money. Really get a grasp of what it says. What it means. The validity of it, or lack thereof. You make the decision based on the evidence.
Then do the same for the Book of Mormon.
Mormons believe in a Jesus of their own imagination. They don't rightfully acknowledge that Jesus is God abd has always existed alingside the father, but consider Jesus a created being and the first of many gods, and believe that if we accomplish great works, we can become gods, too. That is not the Jesus given to us in scripture. Jesus is essential to the gospel. Different Jesus, different gospel. It uses the same language, but it isn't the same. Joseph Smith was a known conman, so I can't believe anybody would trust him over the Bible. If anyone, even an angel from heaven proclaims a different gospel than the one we are given in scripture, they are wrong, and scripture says "let him be accursed".
@URGoodSamaritan There are many different interpretations of reality so reality is subjective now?
Just because someone can take a verse like how Jesus claimed to be the door and say true Christianity worships wooden doors adding to that "45,000" denomination doesnt mean anything. Not to mention the differences between denominations are majority minor like baby vs adult baptism.
With proper hermeneutics, one can ascertain which one is right by examining verses in their original language, context, relation to other verses, etc.. The problem is our sin nature nature that naturally hates God which puts biases in us as to what we believe God should be. Which results in people taking verses like the door example and coming to erroneous conclusions about it
The Father has committed all judgment to the son, until the last day (John 5:22):
Whosoever shall deny Jesus before men, Jesus will also deny them before his Father which is in heaven; those who are denied entry to heaven will surely go to *hell.* God the Father has entrusted his Son to do all He commands of him. But on the last day, the Father is the final judge and jury through his Son. In John 12:48-50, Jesus said all who reject and receive not his words has one that judges him-the Father. Jesus said for I have not *_spoken of myself,_* but my Father, he gave me a *commandment,* what I should say and speak. Jesus said God’s commandment is life everlasting. Therefore, whatsoever Jesus speaks as the Father says to him, that is what he speaks.
Bruh, this is insane.
So much bad faith.