In the video game Legend of Dragoon, turn order is determined by speed level of each character. Each character in combat, both allies and foes, have a speed value number. A fast Character may be 50+, a slow character may be 20-30. The way _I think_ it works is that each character's value ticks up like a counter every turn, whichever character has the highest number value goes that turn, then it resents to 0 after they go, and they don't go again until their value is the highest again. Some bosses are coded in such a way that each of their attacks has its own counter, some bosses can attack like 2 or 3 times in a row because all their attacks separately have high speed values. If you have a slow character in your party, you can get really screwed by turn order. There is an equip item that increases speed, but even that only does so much. There's a "once per battle" item that boosts speed for like 3 turns, but it takes a turn to use (but not necessarily by the same character, you can have an ally cast it). I wonder how well such a turn order system could work in tabletop.
I think that among the extra bits like "losing a turn" there must be take into consideration the other side of the coin, taking another turn. I read somewhere that including an option in a game that forces players to not do anything (i.e skipping a turn) is like putting a card that says "don't have fun". As i myself think in this game as a positional one, i think i'll go for the Status option. Like the players taking turns relating to their distance to the goal (either from closer to farther or otherwise). Using crystals as currency can mean that there will be several actions available to everyone for a price, or it can be used to activate the powers that each character have (even having several "levels" of efectiveness, being more expensive each level or use). The treasure part paint the image of some kind of inventory with fixed spaces where you can put different treasures that you gather, that way, even if you are not the one that gets THE treasure, you can compete for the winning spot counting all your gatherings. It also can be a balancing mechanism, as you could fill the backpack with all the junk you find, or hope to get bigger or better treasures, leaving empty spots for them; or forcing you to take a detour to where the valuables are. It would fit with the Archeologist/adventurer theme.
Being this a competitive game I see more fitting the old fashioned non influenced turn order or the wild real time turns. Players are moving indipendently in this maze temple, going through tunnels, ladders or whatever. I have an image in mind: The Mummy (the 1999 movie). I absolutely love how the different groups of people go and explore the city of the dead (Hamunaptra) sometimes casually crashing onto the other groups (maybe due to exploration or to the flee from the enemy). That's why I don't find much sense in influenced turn orders, this would mean that the players-characters would always interact between them. By the way, I find brilliant the idea of using characters with "powers", as they may end up with different strategies or ways to move through the temple (for example using a rope, a knife or a gun) as these mechanisms may lead to let the characters use specific paths or take advantage of some situations. In the end, last topic! In case of the non influenced turn order wins, the first player (which I presume will be the most advantaged one in this game) might be balanced in one of these 2 ways: 1. As you mentioned, he might have less resources than the others (it would make sense since he took less time for his preparation and didn't pick up all the necessary); 2. If the choice of the players characters become a thing, they could have a specific turn order established based on their "value" or "strength" (if a character has the most useful power he always starts last, and viceversa). Thank you again Ali for all the effort you're putting here on UA-cam, you always make very good quality videos!
Actually I feel that the Mummy analogy (which I absolutely love!) would probably be better suited to a status based turn order.... If your party has Beni you have some previous experience and deserve to go ahead of O'Connell ...unless you have the knowledge of Evelyn and the Bainbridge scholars ... :)
I love the movement order in Dead of Winter. There’s a fist player token and play proceeds clockwise from that person. BUT, the player token moves ANTI-clockwise at the end of the round. This means that if you went last, you go first next round - ie you get two turns in a row. Great if you want to pull off a grand or sneaky move, and really unusual. Love it!
Oh, that's clever! Do players suffer anything apart from a missed opportunity if they get to take two turns in a row but DON'T have anything sneaky or special planned?
@@GamingIndoors No, it's just a wrinkle in how turn order works then. It is obviously good in Dead of Winter, because you DO sometimes want to be sneaky, but in a race game (which I guess Snakes & Ladders is) I guess it would just act as a 'turbo boost' - you might fall behind, but then the double turn will power you to the front unless you hit a sneaky snake!)
Another great video, Ali. If we end up sticking with the "searching for a treasure" theme, then we can have the first turn marker be a flashlight token. Now, how that token gets passed around will be determined based on this week's vote, so be sure you all vote. Also, SHARE this video with someone in the gaming world that you think would enjoy it. And join the Thumbs Up club and give that Like button a smashy-smash. All the cool kids are doing it and it's 100% FREE!
There is also a sub division of turn order if each turn is divided into phases. Each phase can have a varying turn order mechanic. Villagers, for instance has two phases in each turn. Phase one, each play must use all their available action points one at a time until everyone runs out. In phase two (a different activity) each player uses as few of their phase 2 action points as they wish before the next player does the same. The overall turn start player passes clockwise and is represented by a cockerel - maybe we could have a Snake token?
I touched on phases towards the end of the vid and I do like the idea - but I would like to find a thematic reason to have multiple phases where possible... maybe adventures \snakes can take turns during the day phase and cultist/gods only act during the night phase?
@@GamingIndoors Yeah, I got that about phases, I just wanted to point out that the phases can also have various turn order mechanics too. It's just my autistic brain wanting completeness :)
Btw, another example for role turn order is Machiavelli. Every player gets assigned a random role every round, and there is a fixed order in which those roles do their turns
A really interesting game regarding turn order is King Domino, if you want to go first in the next round then you have to pick the worst resource/tile available. This makes it really interesting when planing ahead and deciding when to get good resources or when to choose between more resources by going first. For this reason, I'm voting for influence! 🐍🐍🐍🪜🪜🪜
Does someone have tips for implementing a system that lets the players control an extra entity that works against everyone? In the world of snakes and ladders it could be a demon/ghost that is inside of the temple of snakes and ladders. It moves over the board a bit differently than other players and cannot be traveled through.
It's difficult to give any specific tips as the nature and mechanics of the game are not solid yet, but it may involve a separate deck of action cards say for the demon/ghost. It may involve a random choice from say 6 cards that are face up so everyone sees the potential movement of the ENTITY and can employ tactics to minimize the damage that may cause. The ENTITY May act/move based on the configuration of the players' positions or their possessions -- like once a certain pattern has been made then the ENTITY will act in a specific manner. There are lots of ways I think, but they would have to fit in with the game's mechanics and theme.
@@ralphking117 Yes thank you for your answer. I will look into those action cards you mentioned, and try if it is the good solution for my game. Thanks again!
Hey! Your videos and enthousiasm are inspiring, so thank you! Since the set seem to probably go to be a temple where explorers sneek looking for crystals and avoiding or interacting with snakes... Why not include the native population? Maybe some reckless Western tourists entered the temple looking for adventure (or cool Insta pictures) and got stuck among dangerous snakes or got lost in a complicated structure of rooms and corridors, and some members of the local population have to go there and bring them out before they get hurt. Maybe there are some elements that have to be preserved because they're culturally precious, or rules to respect because of the religious values the temple represents for the natives. I don't know how this could be integrated, I just thought that there already is plenty of stories (in literature and in games and everywhere) about Western adventurers going in exotic places and making a mess... It would be interesting to make something different for once, and maybe it could also make the game more interesting!
#10 I‘ve just now realized how cool that greeting in the beginning looks haha (the two hand raise)
In the video game Legend of Dragoon, turn order is determined by speed level of each character. Each character in combat, both allies and foes, have a speed value number. A fast Character may be 50+, a slow character may be 20-30. The way _I think_ it works is that each character's value ticks up like a counter every turn, whichever character has the highest number value goes that turn, then it resents to 0 after they go, and they don't go again until their value is the highest again. Some bosses are coded in such a way that each of their attacks has its own counter, some bosses can attack like 2 or 3 times in a row because all their attacks separately have high speed values. If you have a slow character in your party, you can get really screwed by turn order. There is an equip item that increases speed, but even that only does so much. There's a "once per battle" item that boosts speed for like 3 turns, but it takes a turn to use (but not necessarily by the same character, you can have an ally cast it). I wonder how well such a turn order system could work in tabletop.
Hey All Hope you guys are well. The link to the vote is listed in the description - I’m super excited to see where this one will lead us :)
I think that among the extra bits like "losing a turn" there must be take into consideration the other side of the coin, taking another turn. I read somewhere that including an option in a game that forces players to not do anything (i.e skipping a turn) is like putting a card that says "don't have fun".
As i myself think in this game as a positional one, i think i'll go for the Status option. Like the players taking turns relating to their distance to the goal (either from closer to farther or otherwise).
Using crystals as currency can mean that there will be several actions available to everyone for a price, or it can be used to activate the powers that each character have (even having several "levels" of efectiveness, being more expensive each level or use).
The treasure part paint the image of some kind of inventory with fixed spaces where you can put different treasures that you gather, that way, even if you are not the one that gets THE treasure, you can compete for the winning spot counting all your gatherings. It also can be a balancing mechanism, as you could fill the backpack with all the junk you find, or hope to get bigger or better treasures, leaving empty spots for them; or forcing you to take a detour to where the valuables are. It would fit with the Archeologist/adventurer theme.
100% agree with losing a turn = not fun.
I’m not sure it has a place in modern board games
Being this a competitive game I see more fitting the old fashioned non influenced turn order or the wild real time turns. Players are moving indipendently in this maze temple, going through tunnels, ladders or whatever. I have an image in mind: The Mummy (the 1999 movie). I absolutely love how the different groups of people go and explore the city of the dead (Hamunaptra) sometimes casually crashing onto the other groups (maybe due to exploration or to the flee from the enemy).
That's why I don't find much sense in influenced turn orders, this would mean that the players-characters would always interact between them.
By the way, I find brilliant the idea of using characters with "powers", as they may end up with different strategies or ways to move through the temple (for example using a rope, a knife or a gun) as these mechanisms may lead to let the characters use specific paths or take advantage of some situations.
In the end, last topic! In case of the non influenced turn order wins, the first player (which I presume will be the most advantaged one in this game) might be balanced in one of these 2 ways:
1. As you mentioned, he might have less resources than the others (it would make sense since he took less time for his preparation and didn't pick up all the necessary);
2. If the choice of the players characters become a thing, they could have a specific turn order established based on their "value" or "strength" (if a character has the most useful power he always starts last, and viceversa).
Thank you again Ali for all the effort you're putting here on UA-cam, you always make very good quality videos!
Actually I feel that the Mummy analogy (which I absolutely love!) would probably be better suited to a status based turn order.... If your party has Beni you have some previous experience and deserve to go ahead of O'Connell ...unless you have the knowledge of Evelyn and the Bainbridge scholars ... :)
@@GamingIndoors that would be a fantastic idea!
In my game turn order is based on who scored the fewest points in the previous rounds.
I love the movement order in Dead of Winter. There’s a fist player token and play proceeds clockwise from that person. BUT, the player token moves ANTI-clockwise at the end of the round.
This means that if you went last, you go first next round - ie you get two turns in a row.
Great if you want to pull off a grand or sneaky move, and really unusual. Love it!
Oh, that's clever! Do players suffer anything apart from a missed opportunity if they get to take two turns in a row but DON'T have anything sneaky or special planned?
@@GamingIndoors No, it's just a wrinkle in how turn order works then. It is obviously good in Dead of Winter, because you DO sometimes want to be sneaky, but in a race game (which I guess Snakes & Ladders is) I guess it would just act as a 'turbo boost' - you might fall behind, but then the double turn will power you to the front unless you hit a sneaky snake!)
Another great video, Ali. If we end up sticking with the "searching for a treasure" theme, then we can have the first turn marker be a flashlight token. Now, how that token gets passed around will be determined based on this week's vote, so be sure you all vote.
Also, SHARE this video with someone in the gaming world that you think would enjoy it. And join the Thumbs Up club and give that Like button a smashy-smash. All the cool kids are doing it and it's 100% FREE!
Appreciate the call to action Keith!
There is also a sub division of turn order if each turn is divided into phases. Each phase can have a varying turn order mechanic. Villagers, for instance has two phases in each turn. Phase one, each play must use all their available action points one at a time until everyone runs out. In phase two (a different activity) each player uses as few of their phase 2 action points as they wish before the next player does the same. The overall turn start player passes clockwise and is represented by a cockerel - maybe we could have a Snake token?
I touched on phases towards the end of the vid and I do like the idea - but I would like to find a thematic reason to have multiple phases where possible... maybe adventures \snakes can take turns during the day phase and cultist/gods only act during the night phase?
@@GamingIndoors Yeah, I got that about phases, I just wanted to point out that the phases can also have various turn order mechanics too. It's just my autistic brain wanting completeness :)
Great vids, wish i found you a year ago
Btw, another example for role turn order is Machiavelli. Every player gets assigned a random role every round, and there is a fixed order in which those roles do their turns
A really interesting game regarding turn order is King Domino, if you want to go first in the next round then you have to pick the worst resource/tile available. This makes it really interesting when planing ahead and deciding when to get good resources or when to choose between more resources by going first. For this reason, I'm voting for influence! 🐍🐍🐍🪜🪜🪜
There's a ton of good ideas in King Domino and that's a great example of one we could build around for our own game!
Thanks for this :)
I think "snake eyes" refers to 1, 1 on the dices...
Does someone have tips for implementing a system that lets the players control an extra entity that works against everyone?
In the world of snakes and ladders it could be a demon/ghost that is inside of the temple of snakes and ladders. It moves over the board a bit differently than other players and cannot be traveled through.
It's difficult to give any specific tips as the nature and mechanics of the game are not solid yet, but it may involve a separate deck of action cards say for the demon/ghost. It may involve a random choice from say 6 cards that are face up so everyone sees the potential movement of the ENTITY and can employ tactics to minimize the damage that may cause. The ENTITY May act/move based on the configuration of the players' positions or their possessions -- like once a certain pattern has been made then the ENTITY will act in a specific manner. There are lots of ways I think, but they would have to fit in with the game's mechanics and theme.
@@ralphking117 Yes thank you for your answer. I will look into those action cards you mentioned, and try if it is the good solution for my game. Thanks again!
Hey! Your videos and enthousiasm are inspiring, so thank you! Since the set seem to probably go to be a temple where explorers sneek looking for crystals and avoiding or interacting with snakes... Why not include the native population? Maybe some reckless Western tourists entered the temple looking for adventure (or cool Insta pictures) and got stuck among dangerous snakes or got lost in a complicated structure of rooms and corridors, and some members of the local population have to go there and bring them out before they get hurt. Maybe there are some elements that have to be preserved because they're culturally precious, or rules to respect because of the religious values the temple represents for the natives. I don't know how this could be integrated, I just thought that there already is plenty of stories (in literature and in games and everywhere) about Western adventurers going in exotic places and making a mess... It would be interesting to make something different for once, and maybe it could also make the game more interesting!
I think we are definitely going to have to think through who the protagonists are in our game and i love this take on it, Elisa!