Marantz Cinema 50 Audyssey OSD vs MultEQ Editor vs MultEQ X MultEQ XT32 Room Calibration Correction
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Marantz Cinema 50 Audyssey OSD vs MultEQ Editor vs MultEQ X MultEQ XT32 Room Calibration Correction - I am in the process of optimizing the sound of my Marantz Cinema 50. Learn about the three Audyssey tools that are available for the Marantz Cinema 50 MultEQ XT32 room calibration / room correction system for this AV Receiver (AVR) and other Denon and Marantz AVR and Processors.
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Thanks for your detailed explanation.. Very helpful. Fully agree what I interpret at the end of your video; just few weeks before Dirac appears makes now no sense to add Multi EQ X prior any comparison between the two systems. I can not understand why Marantz not includes the Editor App for free to have as a minimum good sound out of the box ?
Good video. I always enjoy them. I’ve talked with people at Audyssey and they assume the majority of people will use dynamic eq and select their preferred reference offset for bass to taste. The sound is night and day different and it also automatically adjusts the target curve based on the current volume to get the a balanced perceived sound. Dirac is probably the best for someone not wanting to make manual adjustments. IMO one can get better results with MultEQ X if you are a REW user. The ability to import REW filters is a game changer.
Thanks for sharing the insights you have from experience and your discussion with Audyssey. Interesting how some say to disable dynamic EQ. It seems I have to experiment more with both on and off values. I have mixed feelings about advantage tools like REW. If that is what is required to optimize the results, then I’ll do it. However, I would rather just have the automatic calibration do it’s thing successfully without the need to tweak. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks for the response. I doubt many people have actually used DEQ. The standard Audyssey curve is pretty flat which is why most people say the bass is thin. DEQ adds 3-6 db below about 150hz. Also it boosts the surrounds about 1.5 db which I adjust back to reference like the other speakers. Using REW you basically take 1-3 measurements per speaker, average the response, and have REW calculate the PEQ adjustments. Importing adjustments can be downloaded straight into MultEQ X without data entry. Probably takes 4-5 minutes per speaker. X basically replaces an external DSP which at a minimum costs $1300.
Does Audyssey do Cross correlation alignment?
REW does Cross correlation alignment.
Thanks for making these videos. I’m about to get a C50 or X3800 and all of these videos are really helpful in my purchasing decisions. The idea of buying a single unit license that’s not transferable vs using a MiniDSP and MSO is the biggest question so it helps to see what comes with it vs Dirac
I am glad the series has been helpful. I agree that the non-transferable Dirac licenses are not consumer friendly. I guess that thought is you sell the unit to the next owner for more when it includes Dirac enabled. If you are comfortable with MiniDSP multi-sub option and some manual effort, then you may be able achieve similar (or even better results). -Jon
@@ripewave I also see this new Audessey A1 Evo the dev of that says you don’t need anything except the Audessey phone app, set subs to direct mode and let his algorithm set it up and it replaces the need for MSO, MiniDSP and out performs Dirac
Its free to try so I’ll definitely start there
Let me ask, as the Denon/Maranzt are a few years old now, what do you think the next gen will feature that might make them worth waiting for (LG OLED, no 48gbps hdmi sources, yet)
Yes - that is a good place to start. No cost so you risk your time. I need to test out that tool as well. -Jon
Can you list the microphone boom and accessories you're using?
Great video! just pick up new Denon 3800h...be waiting for part 2 of this test to make my decision on which room calibration to use. No pressure Lol
Yes - part 2 will be after I get the Dirac update. -Jon
Thank you, just what I needed! I am a fresh owner of the cinema 50 and I also feel the lack of bass, although I only have 5.1 speakers with no additional bass. The M-DAX adds a little more color to metal music.
Let me know if you have success getting the bass to expected levels.-Jon
I use the phone app and I'm able to get the bass up. Plus you can use your computer or iPad to go into the Cinema 50 though the web browser using the IP address and get access to all the functions that a custom installer can and raise the level of the bass in several ways. I use the speaker>level function and increase to +6.
I know that adding bass +6db is an option but is it the right thing to do? For the main sound modes on my system I see Dolby, DTS:neural-X, DTS:Virtual-X, Auro-2D:surround, Multi-ch stereo, stereo. I am still a beginner in the audio coding world, so I need to still research on what these all mean. I only know that Dolby, dts and auro are different kind of surround sounds codings and Stereo a 2-ch one. There is also an option for Pure or Pure direct. Maybe Pure is good for classical instruments played in a studio. But I have noticed that DTS is more chrisp and dolby more soft. Personally I use the Auro:2D the most (haven't tried for movies though), it seems to have the balance to play a lot of different content in a nice surround mode. As I am a beginner I am trying to listen to the main algorithms with the least ammount of manual tweakings. I will do a new audyssey calibration soon and continue listening and differentiating each of the different modes. I am on the search for a sub and at some point will add a sub aswell. But yeah, the +6db is there and possible if bass is needed, it doesn't feel so natural for my ears though.
@@tejananda I use an AppleTV to watch all my content and I let the Cinema 50 pick the best mode on its own. it will do that when you start a movie, tv show, or UA-cam etc. it finds the best the settings according to its input signal its getting as far as I can tell. If you want to override with aura2d or what ever mode you can do that. I generally let it auto select because I'm running a 5.1 system and I feel like it does a good job at figuring it out. Yes I think Audyssey doesn't set the bass levels high enough so you need to manually adjust the levels. If someone has a better answer on that I would love to hear it. I wish the bass was easier to set as well. have you tried the app? lot right but wish the bass was easier to set as well. have you tried the app?
For music recently I changed my setting and saved them to preset 2. I turn off Audyssey and I set my two front speakers to large and set bass to LFE+mains. Then I listen in stereo. That way I get the bass form the sub to get a bigger sound. I also use a Parasound stereo amp on the L/R so I want to get the full force of that amp. I feel like its been an improvement compared to previous settings. I'm still trying to find the best settings for music, its a journey 🙂.
@@ripewave Most state that the issue is when Audyssey starts off, it has you bump the subwoofer levels down too far (gains on the back) and can bring it down by up to 10-12dB too much. It's trying to get the levels to 75dB, and most audiophiles will go back and have a dB meter they measure with to get them to around 83 or so dB. Many have also moved the subwoofer levels in the receiver up after calibration by 6 or so dB to compensate for this.
Excellent video!!! Helps me a lot! Will definitely go for the mobile app! Thank you very much for your awesome videos - best on UA-cam!
Too kind! I am glad the content was helpful. -Jon
15:00 : So if I use the mobile app, I can still benefit from the stepwise adjustments (green coloured fields) for the last three rows of the table (Dynamic EQ, Dynamic volume, LFC) if I later-on apply my room correction determined by the mobile app in my AVR and go there to the OSD, right?
That's good to know, so if I consider what I can do overall with the mobile app solution, in my system, I can benefit from the combined "green" fields of the "OSD" and "mobile app" columns of the table.
👏👏👏 very informative thank you..
As usual one more good content! Thank you Jon.
But I returned my Cinema50 for good, thanks to you :)
Emotiva XMC2 is awesome without calibration itself, but Dirac exercise seems to be long and confusing.
Appreciate if you can make a video of Dirac calibration on your RMC1, there are many videos on how to do it, but they really do not finish it with what is exactly target curve adjustments mean, what we have to really look for when setting the curve!
I guess you have not run Dirac yet on your Emotiva, else you would have one video for it :) So please do when you have time.
It will be future reference for new Marantz/Denon users when they enable Dirac.
Thank you again
I have run Dirac for the Emotiva but can’t recall why I didn’t produce a video for it. It may have just been a timing issue where I had other videos in production at the time. So yes - I will need to produce a Dirac video. It may be need to use the same Dirac calibration curve in both the Marantz and the Emotiva and compare A/B.
I didn’t get into curve editing with the last video as that was more about presenting the three options and not the actual calibration process. All great ideas from you - thanks.
Jon
@@ripewave thank you, waiting for it!
20:30: So The Windows Multi EQ X is better here than the mobile app? Then shouldn't the colors in the table be swapped - blue for mobile app and green for Windows program?
I'm interested as to how you will make the avr sound better because of different dacs
As we bring more AV Receivers / processors in we will learn in the trend is consistent. For immersive audio you can’t add an external DAC as those are 2-channel only (that I have seen). Other factors include power supply and other internal circuits and components. When they all are better the sound quality improvements are noticeable. -Jon
@@ripewave so basically there is no way to make it sound better because I have a new yamaha and it doesn't sound like the older ones
Well I would not give up without a try. Do what you can with the settings and calibration tools provided. -Jon
@@ripewave do you know how to or a work around for seeing the bitrate on the receiver
Bitrate details is a problem - glad you raised that deficiency. I don’t know of a way using the Marantz itself. This is something that bothers me. I end up running the signal through my Emotiva - then I get the details. -Jon
Thanks for the help that you sent my way with this episode. I like to play with my audio setup. I have learned that you should begin fooling around in the morning because you will need time to fix all the mistakes you made. I have the $20 denon room correction. Nice to see the 9000es 5 channel amp. I don't spend much and I'm using a Carver 5 channel with a Denon Avr-X3300W. I don't like that avr. Time to go hunting.
Helpful video. Thank you!
I am glad the video helped. -Jon
@@ripewave I just purchased a silver c50. It's due next week. I'm really looking forward to it.
Jon: Using the Audyssey $20 editor app that I bought previously and that adjusted for my new receiver, and for the first time creating two presets for the front middle and back middle seats - it’s not clear as to how you select which preset? Could you direct me to the page in the Cinema 50 manual where this discussed? I am checking it now, but I don’t see a reference to it yet - and how to do it in real time use.
Jon: After a second look through the “index” I cobbled together enough parentheses to locate the required references and - eureka - I found the the two settings I created within the end-user Marantz app! I think I just surprised myself!🥳🧐👏 I will have to admit once you get an understanding of the logic, it does go pretty smoothly - at least for a rank beginner like me who is just learning the “basics”.
Glad to hear your are leveraging the presets to manage different listening positions.
This topic is covered in the Cinema 50 manual. The are a few ways-
P. 229
Speaker preset - saving presets
Not in manual -
From the speaker menu - select “speaker preset” (last item in menu)
P.126
From the remote press OPTION the cursor up/down to select “speaker preset” then ENTER
Jon
@@ripewave Jon: Thanks for the added hints. Not quite sure what I did but my new settings are listed in the end-user Marantz app under “options”. As such, there is a slight difference between the two settings. We have a family friend who chooses every time to sit in the seat which is most affected by the “hand-clap” reverb test that my local Marantz dealer pointed out me when he was here recently. Didn’t know that a slight reverb existed, but then he was trying to quietly sell me on a room treatment package. Once pointed out though, I began moving around and sure enough there is a difference for that particular seat where it is a little harder to hear the dialogue which she often complains about. So now with my second “middle-back-seat” setting, I will be interested to see if she notices any difference. Again, thanks for doing your latest video! Way to go! Awesome! 👏👋👍👏👏
Yes - hopefully the difference is noticed. It would be great if your efforts pay off.-Jon
@@ripewave I am pleased to report that they have. Indeed, the engineers went all out with so many features that I require such as: speech enhancement; tone control; all individual speaker volume and multi-channel audio. All these help me deal with my less than perfect room and in particular the disadvantaged seat I have underneath a double-riser HVAC ceiling under-hang intrusion I have in one corner of the room. The two presets definitely work for both sweet-spot seats as I have sat and listened in both places the last two days. The second set of seats I realized are too close to the back wall (must be at least 24 inches away) so I redid the the calibration a second time and only went with six settings.
I just bought Multiq-x for my Denon 6700 receiver and I gave my username a generic name and email address so if I ever sell the 6700 I give gem that username and email as well.
Interesting workaround. To play it safe I would establish a dedicated email account you don't use for anything else. I have a background in cybersecurity. You should be able to change the email/password. -Jon
@@ripewave That's what I did. I created an email and account named after the receiver. Cool about your background. I have a degree in Computer Networking/Network Security.
@@Boxkerp how is this protecting against someone getting access to credit card?
@@pumpituphomeboy Just remove it from the account.
Perfect! Yes your background in security keeps you protected. So many are caught by surprise. -Jon
I've been through a number of processors and AVRs, and the out of the box sound, prior to any calibration is a very telling sign. Whether it's better DACs, parts, circuitry, etc, I'd say this accounts for about 80% of the sound performance. The remaining 20% largely rests with the RC to help clean up issues with your room, mainly bass integration, time alignment and taming reflections. The worse "out of box" sound has typically been Denon, followed by Marantz. I've tried Arcam, Anthem, Audiocontrol, HTP-1, Emotiva, and Trinnov, and they sound excellent with just basic EQ.
This is excellent feedback as it provides firsthand testimony as to how far room calibration / correction can address. Your educated 20% assessment may seem low, but perhaps not too far from reality. Your list of the two tiers of brand appears to be on track as well. What I didn't include in the video, was that the Cinema 50 sounded noticeably better with the "MultEQ XT32 L/R Bypass" setting which removes the Audyssey adjustments for the main channels. Makes Audyssey seems like a step backwards. -Jon
Out of box, seems like Denon and Marantz is a bit flat in the upper mid range. Marantz is a little warmer in the lower mids. Little smoother highs too.
I’m over with the room calibration train. I have never loved the results I get from running multieq xt, Dirac or even arc. My system sounds best with no eq calibration. Dirac does a good job at getting my distance perfect but that’s the only settings I keep. I recently got a marantz sr7015 to compare with my Arcam and I gotta say I was pleasantly surprised. Now I’m only using it as a preamp but it sounds really good and it has a slight edge on immersive separation. Of course the Arcam sounds beautiful specially when you get it to high volume but the ease of use of the marantz left me impressed where I would say I never touch a marantz in the past. I’ve always been a Anthem, NAD, audiocontrol and Arcam guy
@@Laissez_Faire room calibration, in my mind, should be just that, adjustments that counter the impact of the room. It should not be a tone control. The impact of the processor quality that generates the speaker signals should not be underestimated. I don’t believe quality issues with a receiver or processor can be compensated through the use of EQ filters and phasing of the output. It is a tool which should be used as intended - room calibration. Unfortunate, these tool can even fail at their core mission. -Jon
@@ripewave but that’s actually contra productive because the receiver is assuming you have a perfect set of speakers and any spikes or dips it sees are due to the room and that’s where it changes the sound characteristics of the speakers and how the engineer intended them to sound. So the software doesn’t understand what is produced from the speaker and what is produced by the room. Things like the position of the speakers and room treatment is in my opinion a better alternative. I’m an audio engineer by education but no longer in the industry so it’s difficult for me to explain but hopefully you understand what I mean. You seem to be a very smart person judging from the videos you have done. Keep up the good work 👍🏼
You have hit the nail on the head in your detailed review. D&M has all these great features but you can't get the benefits due to cheap internal components.
In my opinion, Dirac is not going to make much difference in D&M until the AVRs with ESS DACs which are £6k. D&M frustrates me.
I know mostly all audiophile people posting bieased reviews but a salute to you. Very correct and non biased information. Money is not what always matter. Kindly keep your voice open ispite of any brand. I assure you your value will be more than any brand in the market. Gud luck. Kindly post your facebook or instagram link to get connected as i have all other great people connected of facebook.
I missed your comment earlier. Thank you for that kind feedback. I am glad that you have that perception. I have not done much via other social media platforms, but what you are suggesting may be helpful to the growth of this channel.
The Facebook page I have is blank today: m.facebook.com/p/Ripewave-Audio-100064185245760/
No Instragram account that I recall.
Jon