The Legend of Zelda Theory: Song of Storms Paradox
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- The Song of Storms is a song learned in both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. The song itself is not very mysterious, but the way it was learned is. Adult Link learns it from Guru-Guru who takes it to the past to learn it to Guru-Guru who teaches it to Adult Link...and what? In this theory I'm going to try and tackle this time paradox and find the origin to this song!
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![The Song of Storms PARADOX EXPLAINED - Zelda Theory [Thinkafurr] Ocarina of Time - Time travel](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YZD9GP4AbhU/mqdefault.jpg)
So basically MM Link has never learned it until he gets to Termina.. he brings it back to Hyrule and teaches it to Guru-Guru.. who teaches it to Adult Link, who then goes back in time to teach to to Guru-Guru as a child without having to go to Termina. Wow, that actually makes perfect sense and I didn't even realize that it could. Awesome video!
tanzeel ali cool
Except Young Link never returned from Termina.
So;
1 - Guru Guru is a insane person.
2 - Link had another adventure after Zelda sending him back to his timeline, triggering the Song of Storms thing.
3 - Fate is inexorable, if was the Hero's destiny to learn the song of Storms, than he will, one way or another.
@xxAlexFogxx Personally, I think it was created in Termia. Link didn't bring it with him into Hyrule, what happened was that, because of the temporal weirdness surrounding the Ocarina of Time, the song 'bled through the cracks' so to speak.
It can all be explained with four words. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey.
+SupernerdScrawl ...stuff
+VortexxyGaming #DoctorWho, p.s link is a time lord, 1. he has more than one heart, 2. he is reancarnated in diffrent aspects, 3. he can time travel!!! plz subscribe to my channel!
TheEmeraldBow60
1. He has to many hearts
2. Reincarnation isn't regenerations
3. Not with a TARDIS
no
Don't know... Valeyard?
SupernerdScrawl Doctor who ❤️
Thanks everyone for your kind words!
I think it's kinda funny how this one little detail blows an entire theory out of the water. If this really is the case then Termina=Purgatory is now completely false.
There is more evidence for that theory to not be true than I can count.
HOLY CRAP THE CREATOR RESPONDED!!!
I dunno I just like that theory considering it's easier to relate to, what with the five areas representing the five stages of grief and all. Plus the three transformations masks coming from three dead people from Termina (Darmina Mikau [or Mikal] and the Butler's son) but eh this does make a lot of sense
Which didn't make sense to me until I heard the theory in this video.
Lols XD I can't help it that I've never gotten responses from the maker of a video I actually liked.
I alway´s thought about the Song of Storms as some sort of "song of chaos"... but just not named that way. It creates this kind of time paradoxes, changes weather, makes holes appear and some other "unexpected" stuff. Also it´s "learned" form an absolute crazy guy who lost his mind because of the song.
In Majora´s mask, the Song of time is used for time control (control, order). And in other hand Song of Storms it´s associated with this time paradox (Chaos): Maybe the song is just there, it comes from nowhere.
Don´t underestimate the Song of Storms
I think the beauty is in the paradox itself, rather than in a logical solution.
This is one of the reasons why I think Majora's Mask can be better suited to take place during the Seven-Year gap that Link was sealed in the Sacred Realm - as a kind of in-between game. Long story short; he has his adventure in Termina, learning a bunch of essential stuff needed later; and then going back to finish the story of Ocarina of Time.
I could be completely wrong, but here's what I always thought. Guru-Guru already knows the song when you enter the windmill the first time. He's already playing it on his music box, he just doesn't realize that it is magic. When you become an adult, he complains that a kid played the song in his windmill, but I guess he never states that it is a new song to him, just that the kid played the song and it caused the windmill to freak out. He teaches adult Link how to play it. When Link goes back as a kid, he fulfills Guru-Guru's prophecy, playing the song and sealing any loopholes in the plot. I have no idea if that is correct, that's just what I always thought.
That being said, your theory is very convincing! Great video! I love the theory, especially since MM is my favorite Zelda game and I always love theories that link the two universes!!
Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff
This just blew my mind... your videos are incredible! Please don't stop making them anytime soon- these are too cool!!
I know this doesn't have much to do with the video, but as some point, there were two Links. In Twilight Princess, where Link goes back in time in the Sacred Grove in order to enter the Temple of Time. So he time traveled to the past to a time when the temple still stood. But when you go there, you see that the Master Sword is not present. This is most likely to make it easier for the player, but it does raise the question if the Hero of Twilight was walking around solving the Temple of Time while the Hero of Time was off doing his hero bussiness aswell! I don't know if Nintendo did it on purpose, but it does answer the question why there was no temple or sage to awaken in the Temple of Time as TP Link has already done it while trying to get the third mirror shard, most likely without even realising it.
I agree on that theory yes, it would explain the missing sword and the awakening of Rauru.
Do you have any idea how smart I feel to be able to put that theory together despites not being all that bright! ;u;
TooMuchFreeTime I don't understand though, this is the child timeline, the timeline where the master sword was never needed because Link snitched on Ganondorf. So if link never collected the spiritual stones how would the door be open? I don't think the theory of awakening Rauru is correct since he was never needed in the child timeline
@@DeityOP well it still is connected to oot and the events are only separated by time travel. So if tp link went back in time enough then he would exist alongside oot link while oot is doing hero business (before he went back in time to Snitch Ganondorf into execution).
1:13 I think she meant to say, "When information is passed from the past to the future, which in turn is at the same time is passed from the future to the past."
This is a good theory. I've always thought about this and I believe it's more simple than what we think. I'm working on a video myself.
Never thought Lui liked OOT!
MM link: Link i gotta tell you about the future!
Oot link:" what?!"
MM link: i gotta tell you about the night when you go to the windmill
Oot link:" stop lalalala i cant know about the future"
MM link:" but link im trying to save you some time.
what about the fact the song of storms creates a downpour of rain but still somehow dries up the well?
Steve Carter The storm created by the song makes the windmill spin really fast, and for some unknown reason, that drains the water in the Kakariko well.
it's stated (by a random NPC standing by the fence behind the well) that the windmill draws up water from the well.
Lens of truth is optional? Well... you're technically correct. The best kind of correct.
But... good luck beating the Shadow Temple without it. There's the randomized "Skull of Truth" puzzle, and an invisible moving platform later on. I guess both could be passed via trial and error.
But how do you defeat Bongo Bongo without it? You need it to see his eye.
What about getting to the Spirit Temple you can't see the Poe without it?
+werewolf914 For that part you can actually get there without the Poe if you know the way path
+Bryan Dacote No you don't, you can still hit it's eye even though you can't see it like shoot his hands and the eye will be open if you are a bad shot with the arrows you will not hit the eye because no lock on.
+Sporkinator One that hovers need not the truth.
Another mystery: Why is the interior of the windmill described as "?" (question mark) when entering?
+autricio Maybe because it is in a time vortex?
+Barry Bludgeon I think that is very well possible. It is thought that in Majora's Mask the interior of the clock tower is also in a time vortex. Perhaps this place is analogous to it. Both places have in common that they both have a spinning beam in the middle and are connected to other subterranian passages (the clock tower is connected to the forest and the windmill is connected to Dampé's grave).
+autricio I'VE WONDERED THAT MY WHOLE LIFE OMG
+autricio IDK
Its not as fancy as that. It's just because It is also the area where you get the hookshot from Dampé, but if Dampés grave was called Windmill, it would look strange and ruin the surprise.
I give you credit for coming up with all that right or wrong. You have passion for this and i hope too see more videos in the future
Thank you very much :)
Ah! My head! It hurts!
I think I got the basis of the theory, but thinking about it still confuses me a bit. Still, nice way to resolve the issue.
It's a very complicated topic that made my head spin while I was writing the theory haha.
He taught me the song as Child Link before I ever retrieved the Master Sword. When I visited him as Adult Link, he already knew the song (obviously), and so did I. Great theory, but I think the fact that this paradox exists in the first place is purely due to game mechanics. If you hadn't learned the song as a boy, you could also learn it as an adult. Although, Guru-Guru himself refers to the paradox via symbolism when he says, "Go around, go around, go around . . ."
It's an interesting idea, but somewhat of a stretch.
In the end I don't think the developers actually were thinking about an entirely different game when making OoT.
However, the fans filling the gaps is not the worst thing that can happen.
I love discussions about ontological paradoxes! They are so complex and fun.
I felt that Zelda disguised herself as Link, and did the song in the past, but your theory also makes sense.
+Charles Lee that actually makes a lot of sense!
They both are roughly the same height, same eye color, same hair color, both good with ocarinas/musical instruments. She was definitly around during the 7 years. And heck; Link's house wasn't even touched in the Kokiri Forest so she could steal his clothes lol
This is a great theory! Good job! Most people wouldn't have even tried to tackle such a complex problem. You not only had the guts to do it, but supported it with excellent evidence as well! Well done! I really enjoyed this video!
He sneezes in the ice area in ganondorfs castle, too.
+Ninjaananas and in ice cave
+TheEmeraldBow60
True.
Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey
Time Travel: The more you think about it, the more it hurts your head.
This was wonderful. Completely new aspect of OoT I never took a second look at. I also just watched Malon Theory and had before totally overlooked the presence of Epona's song in Twilight Princess. The fact that Malon learned it from her mother and that Link knows it just is like........ Ugh the inference fueled feels!! Thank you. Twilight Princess has to be the most rhetorically deep in the series. They Completely intended on the "Hero's Shade" being OoT Link from the inception of the plot. Rusl's first lines in the Game set up the entire theme of the Shade's regrets dying with Ganon.
Two words...Mind Blown.
The Wisest Waffle four words:
Wibbly wobbly timey whimey
There’s a theory that Majora’s Mask is a dream Link is having while he is sleeping for 7 years in the Sacred Realm. He did not know the Song of Time before entering the Sacred Realm, yet upon becoming an adult and going to the Windmill in Kakariko, Link “remembers” the song. He actually learned it while in Termina, then ended up using it in Hyrule which created the paradox.
Nice theory.🤔
As Groose said "Uhhhh... Whoa... You're kind of imploding my mind right now... but I think I get what you're saying."
Wow! I didn't think it was possible, but you actually give a theory that makes sense! I am very impressed! You are clearly a huge fan of the games, and very intelligent! Keep up the good work!
Time travel. Makes you want to throw your master sword in navi's face. Oh wait, I don't need time travel to want that.
You did as good a job explaining this complicated paradox as you could. Kudos to you!
My brain hurts.
honestly I think he seriously did forget most of those songs from lack of playing them...and his equipment...some of them no longer exist as he only has actual access to them in the future while others probably just became old and he threw/gave them away as he didn't need them anymore
SuperGamefreak18 Mmmmm, I like this theory, I'll keep it as the True reason behind that.
Nice thinking man!!! :D
this actually makes the paradox more complex
as Majora's Mask link would learn the song by legit means BUT go back and teach it to guru-guru knowing that it will be helpful to the boy-link
but MMs link would only know that this song would help by having learned and used it as Boy Link
all screwed up.
The problem with this theory is that it is still dependent on Link somehow learning the song, which can only be done via a paradox, which leaves you with the same issue. In order for Link to go to Termina, the events of OoT have to take place. The Link that goes to Termina is Adult Link, who already defeated Ganondorf in the future. Obviously him going back in time doesn't erase his memory of the events as an adult (he has to remember to tell the King about Ganondorf). So he has to already know the song to defeat Ganondorf, then go to Termina and learn the song to go back in time to teach Guru Guru the song so his adult self can learn the song again?
Or are you suggesting that Link went through the events of OoT, didn't receive the LoT, went to Termina, learned the SoS, then was sent back to Hyrule to teach Guru Guru that song?
Maybe part of this went over my head, but this didn't seem to make much sense to me.
Just my amateur theory but I think Oot Link originally failed. He wanted to save the world but couldn't and I personally think he was somehow too late.
In MM Link has a constant time limit; in Oot he does not. What if he originally tried to escape after the second Hyrulean war (the war I imagine being the consequence of Link failing in Oot) as one of the last people left? The three Goddesses guided him the right way; either in a dream or literally. They guided him to Termina because they knew that the SoS was important for Oot Link to succeed.
The time limit in MM is to show Link that he hasn't got any time left. By having the Lens of Truth, Link can be much faster in saving the world. Without the item, the Shadow Temple seems almost impossible in certain spots.
So Link gets to see that he has to be faster. Note that Oot not having a time problem can be an indicator that MM has already happened and it's Oot Link's second run, his second chance to save the world.
But couldn't it be that Link didn't originally fail and the Goddesses just put Oot Link into a dream (before my imaginary "second Hyrulean war", probably while Link being INSIDE the Shadow Temple) leading to the whole plot of MM?
I don't think so, because Link then wouldn't do an entire adventure in his head while being in an adventure in real life, one that is already close to the end. An argument FOR (or at least not against) this being a dream is that MM is happening in three days which is not much.
It's more unlikely that this was all a dream.
I think original Link didn't get the Lens of Truth on his own because he didn't know of SoS. Stumbling around in the Shadow Temple, Link was too late and a war was breaking out. Link failed and Hyrule was doomed. The Goddesses then showed him Termina, they showed him metaphorically how important time is and how valuable a person is that doesn't underestimate time. Then they filled the empty hole by teaching him the SoS.
Link finished his adventure in Termina and learned a lot in MM (I could go on and on how much he could've learned, changing Oot completely into the Oot we know and if you think about it while playing MM, it's very eye opening). Then he went back into the world of Hyrule, went a little back into time, right before the second war broke out, taught Guru Guru the song and you finish the rest.
Edit: I hope it was clear, I'm a self-taught English speaker so I deeply apologize for mistakes or for boring you to death while reading my two cents. Maybe you are not even alive because you commented 5 years ago :( If so, my condolences
This is why Vortexxy was such a brilliant Zelda theorist. You could tell she put a lot of thought (and heart) into her theories. I saw someone rather callously respond to someone elses comment that there was no point in commenting because she aint going to respond. Smh. That's the reason to comment. To keep her channel, her work alive. And to that persons snide comment - if Vortexxy could respond to that person or any other for that matter, she would. She cared about her community, and we care about her. And that's why we comment. To keep all she put into this channel alive.
Yeah, I think I remember that comment… it was rather insensitive and unnecessary… luckily most of the people here aren’t like that and have left nothing but respectful comments, whether they’re aware of her fate or not 💙
Good theorizing, but there are some big holes in this. MM Link's events happen AFTER the events in OoT. This means that Ganondorf is sealed away and the adult timeline is no longer part of this universe. This means that Young Link from OoT can affect the Future Link's timeline, but MM Link cannot. Taking the liberty of "universe hopping" is a bit of a stretch, even in the Zelda series. Places like Lowrule, Termina and the Twilight take place in different dimensions but still follow the same chronological sequence as Hyrule. Even official games that mix the worlds together, like Hyrule Warriors, are listed as non-canon. This clearly defines these worlds as separate and don't interfere with one another. A bootstrap paradox is just that, a paradox. It doesn't have some quantifiable beginning or end, these events will just keep happening. Even the song and location itself feel like a never ending loop, with the visual queues being a windmill and a merry-go-round, providing a strong piece of imagery of going around in circles and not having a clear beginning or end.
The Song of Storms exists in the adult timeline of OoT whether Link is there or not. MM Link must have been the first to have played the SoS so adult Link could learn it and then become the kid who played it in the windmill. This had obviously happened before the player reaches that stage, which means at least some of the events had already happened, but cos of time travel, the protagonist Link was yet to follow on, which might suggest Link would have stumbled upon Termina whatever happened in OoT. Its very much like the Doctor Who episode 'The Impossible Astronaut' or the last half an hour of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
I like your videos a lot. I love such game-theories with a good explanation.
Thank you, Vortexxy, for making such videos!
Kind regards!
It's because of things like this that I fo adore the legend of Zelda so much. Cudos in finding an amazing explanation in a paradox. It was fantastically put together.
Brilliant! This paradox has bugged me for years, but your theory makes perfect sense to me!
Link wasn't sealed away. He was training with Rauru in the Sacred Realm. That's why he has muscles as an adult (instead of suffering crippling atrophy) and is a master swordsman even though he has (supposedly) never wielded the master sword. HOWEVER, to defeat Ganon, Link needed to have the pure heart of the child who pulled the master sword in the first place, so he purged his adult mind, who had lost the innocence of childhood and become a fierce warrior. That mangled soul, who watched helplessly from the sacred realm as ganon gained power over 7 years, was sealed away in the water temple. then the sage tells you that you've been asleep and your child brain (and ours) believes him. that's why dark link won't fight back and just mirrors your moves. he knows he has to take a dive.
Where did you get this info? Is it in the manga?
Link didn't train with Rauru in the Sacred Realm at all. In fact, it is not just any sage but Rauru himself who, upon Link waking up in the chamber of sages, makes him realize he is now an adult, and goes on to explain how he fell into a 7 years slumber following him withdrawing the Master Sword. He was sealed away in the Sacred Realm until he was old enough to wield it and vanquish evil.
There's nothing about that in the manga either.
dark link actually fights pretty viciously if you don't take him out quickly.
this is why i love The Legend of Zelda Game series, because there are so many theories and possibilities to why and how things and events occur. i'm new to the Channel but i already love your style, its awesome, keep it up, just remember, keep whats true to you True to You and you'll go far. :3
Just wanted to say your videos are my new addiction xD
It's easy, time is a cycle not a line, there is no end and there is no start, the song has always been there.
Well, obviously the song's origins come from the building interior itself. The song plays while you are inside regardless of when you go in.
After watching this it all suddenly makes sense! Thanks for sharing!
I remember as a kid this always used to bother me. Though I always thought that the entire windmill scenario of learning the song was some sort of joke about time travel in that the wind mill is constantly going around in circles.
Ok this explains a whole lot about Ocarina of time, and about a billion other things... Thank you so much!
PARADOX HURT BRAIN
*explodes*
I am sure Link does the same thing in the tiny fairy fountains due to the fact that he does shiver and sneeze in those waters shortly after standing still in it.
Another great video and a solid theory! Makes perfect sense :)
I had always taken a different time approach to OOT. The time in that game seems to be based on a pure-causality sense of time. Link got the song because he was always meant to get the song. The only way that Hyrule could be saved would be removing the causality from the timeline entirely (IE: Sealing Ganon away in the sacred realm.)
.... ow ...... oowww ...... OOOWWWW ... this brains my hurt.
Oh, I loooooooooove this theory. I've always loved the Song of Storms, and I love paradoxes, but it always bothered me how this worked. And the fact that you learn it in Majora's Mask as a completely separate incident... hehehe I just love this explanation of it all! XD
It's an interesting theory, well presented too. It does make sense that the song of storms came from Termina since that's the only place it was written down, and since the ghost wrote the song, Link could only remember it if it had come from there in the first place.
Time travel is confusing. It must have taken a while to come up with that, awesome job.
Makes more sense for Skull Kid to help Link get back to Hyrule than it does for him to go back in time to where he pulled the Master Sword out for the first time.
Because that implies another paradox was created. One where he's forever looping between drawing the Master Sword-saving Hyrule-Going to Termina-Saving Termina-going back in time, drawing the Master Sword. Since, you said is yourself, there's not gonna be 2 Links in one timeline.
I still have my Nintendo 64 and my ocarina of time and majora's mask now that I have found your channel and I have listened do your theories they make much sense thank you for that
:) you're welcome!
While the MM Link is a bit of a stretch it is a really good idea to think of.
Personally, my best guess as to the origin of the song is the same as the composer brothers in MM, they are buried in the graveyard in Kakariko Village. I'm willing to bet the little kid who played in the graveyard learned the song and played it causing a "original" playing of it. Skip ahead, Link wakes up and comes across the merry-go-round guy, he plays the song for Link and he learns it. Link heads back to a time when the Well was still sealed up and plays the song in order to enter it. Thus erasing the graveyard kid's need to play the song in the first place.
very nice theory! :D you deserve more views and subs ^^
When I heard this song as a kid I LOVED it man, the song is really good
Wooooah, you lost me at "This is Vortex" 0_0
OG_Zman I know right?
Link could lost some of his memory when he fell
Fantastic theory! I was actually pretty confused about the Song of Storms myself. This pleases my confused mind!
Forget the Song Of Storms, what I've always wanted to know is how Link learned the Song Of Time. He litterally picks it up and seconds after picking it up he learns a song no one ever taught him or ever played to him.
It's quite possible that the Song of Storms paradox were just the programmers of the game fooling around with the concept of time, or trying to induce the player to learn the song, by giving this huge clue.
However, since you mentioned Majora's Mask, I also got a a theory on how that could work in canon. You see, every time Link goes back to Day One in Majora's Mask, he is the only one going back in time. The world always ends on it's respective timeline once Link goes back to Day One. And, by proxy, he creates a world without the Hero. This makes his decision of rewinding time a really difficult one. In a hand he could help all of Termina citizens, but he also can't help everyone at once. The Link who can save Lulu's eggs, can not be the Link who can save Cremia, or the only who reunites Kafei and Anju. He has to make decisions, and deal by the fact he CAN'T save everybody, for there's only one Link for each time flux.
This goes back to the Ocarina of Time situation. The flux of time you are living creates chain reactions that can not be fixed, even if you go back and forth in time. You can only go back to the trigger you activated once, that being the Master Sword seal in the Young Link timeline.. That is a big plot point, with Ganondorf being able to take the Triforce on the Sacred Realm, and you not being able to go back before this point.
It is quite possible that, just like in Termina, every time the Hero goes back and forth in time, he creates a new branch with a new world, past or future, without a hero. So the Link who teached Guru-Guru the song of Storms was just another time flux Link, one that could travel way past the seal of the Master Word being violated. This description fits the ending of the game, where Zelda sends Young Link to live his lost youth without having to worry about Ganon. So, in a way, Guru Guru was actually giving us a big spoiler on the ending, and even more importantly so, giving us a lecture about the whole point of the game; you can't hide away from fate.
at first i thought it was impossible for mm link to teach oot link the song since the song was essential to complete the game and if link doesnt complete oot, we dont get the child timeline, we get the downfall timeline. the fact that you dont need the lens of truth changed my pov however. good video and clear explanation
To begin, I have a couple things, first, which I feel is most important; is that for Link to become the hero shade (I'm sure you heard of this before) is for him to go into the lost forest without a fairy, become lost, go through the 5 stages of grief, die, and go into purgitory for not passing on his knowledge until he passes the knowledge onto twilight princess's link. If you havent heard of this, there are several videos on these theories (ask me for a link, i will most def provide). Second, which most people of the internet disagree with, I believe he was searching for saria, being links best friend, and then going to the forest temple and dying. I believe the sound at the beginning of Majora's Mask of a fairy was a representation of Link getting lost without a fairy.
Yes, the story of Majora´s Mask being symbolic for the five stages of grief is something I like as a theory, but there´s just far too much evidence against it. First of all, The Hero´s Shade is a ghost not a stalfos. Second, he makes it out of Termina because Twilight Princess Link is related to him. I don't think Link managed to 'get it on' as a 10-11 year old before he left Hyrule haha. For the second theory, Hyrule Historia clearly states he was looking for Navi in the Lost Woods for months on end. It's made by Nintendo themselves so there's not much we can argue against that :). I really like the five stages of grief theory, since it's so complex and holds true on many accounts, but unfortunately it directly contradicts the games...
I love listening to these theories, i really enjoy your voice cx
Only way I can figure is that perhaps the Young Link (OoT) wasn't actually asleep during the 7 years. Perhaps just his soul was sealed away (or a copy) or simply his memories of anything he may have done were erased.
Link is shown to have enough musical skill to write his own songs (2 of the Wolf Songs in TP were original compositions, I suspect written by MM Link) so it is possible that Link came up with the Song of Storms on his own during that 7 year gap. (possibly to help Guru in coming up with a song for the nameless Windmill) But since his memories were wiped clean of those years he can not recall that it was he who taught it to Guru.
Actually I feel this can be explained in game though off screen.
the ghosts of the composers are present in OoT.
As Ganondorf comes to power Poes apear in Hyrule Field and a merchant arises for them.
Four Poes are part of the Forest temple placed there likely by Ganondorf.
It is therefore possible that Poes spread out from the Graveyard in what may be a search for the four that had been removed from their place of slumber. One or more may have passed this song on in their wailing and haunting at the windmill and well outside the graveyard leading to the first draining.
Then when Adult Link or Guru-Guru learn it the loop can start removing the Poe from the equation.
This could also be the work of Ganondorf in his attempts to hide the Lens of Truth hoping to stop you but in his flaws left a witness and it spread creating the loop that way.
subscribed! love your theories :D
Before ever becoming Adult Link, if you go into the windmill you can hear Song of Storms playing, Guru Guru is playing the song already! My theory is that Guru Guru wrote the song, but when Link played the song on his magical Ocarina, thats when it messed up the Windmill. If thats not the case, then the fact that Link has the triforce of Courage makes certain songs he plays have magical effects. It is not raining in Kakariko the first time you get there, despite the fact that Guru-Guru is sitting in the Windmill playing Song of Storms 24/7. The second Link plays that same song, it starts raining, so he clearly has magical music powers.
Jeremy Hannah I am tired and feel like I failed to get my point across, having difficulties wording it properly. I don't understand why the song is already playing when you first visit the windmill though. I also dont understand why Guru-Guru says he is working on a song for the windmill, and then gets mad at Link for playing the EXACT same song he was playing already 7 years ago before he ever met Link.
I've been watching your theories and I have to say dam you got some imagination lol I I have played Link's Awakening, The Oracle Series, a Link to The Past, and Ocarina of TIme, but I never thought about the backstory of some of these temples and items. I understood and agree with all the things you have said, but this really got me confused lol I never played Majora's Mask, but I think I'm gonna buy it and play it now :D
I know the feeling of encountering a paradox. you can blame the Doctor for that
Also notice that as Adult Link, the lone ray of light shines on the Shadow Temples medallion symbol.
This is really nice! Absolutely, hands down, the best explanatory theory for the Song of Storms I've heard.
The only point that doesn't makes sense to me is the part when you say the goddess set Link back in time, I think that, since Link has learned how to manipulate time, he uses the Ocarina to go back in time and teach the song to Guru-Guru (obviously, is the goddess that allows Link to do this, but she does not intervenes directly, as she never does in MM).
Also, can't also be posible that after MM ends, Link goes back to Hyrule and teaches the song to Guru-Guru? I mean, he has 7 years to do so, and before getting transported to Temina only a few months have passed since he saved Hyrule, and only 3 days are spent on Termina, he could just go and teach the song, no time travel needed.
I might be wrong, but anyway, I'm loving your videos, I saw like 4 in a row, and I've already subscribed to your channel, excellent material you have.
Also, your voice is really easy to listen to, and that's an importan "Video Liking Factor" to me.
xD
other theorists has pointed out that these orcastra brothers made the song and then they hid info related to it at the graveyard. They set up the windmill to play it contiunously. Gannon goes after these brothers and kills them, because he first thought this was the power he was seeking he finds out later its the triforce he needs and sets forth to take the triforce through manipulation.
I remember when I was 10 and I just got this game and I was playing it and this paradox blew my tiny little 10 year old mind.
So I didn't have to go through the well and fight Deadhand? Boy, that would have saved me from some nightmares...
I like this theory. A lot.
Very well done indeed. :D
There may be a hole. The loop is that OoT Link would go through the game without the song, become MM Link and learn the song, and go back to OoT and write the song down and have a family. This actually creates a vanishing timeline. MM Link (who was OoT Link) was removed permanently from MM to secure the Song of Storms by draining the well in OoT, and to have a family with Malon in order for there to be a Link in TP. assuming Link of TP is directly related to OoT Link and not just a reincarnation that landed in the Malon family. Now the song is in Hyrule, and the windmill guy knows it. But now there are 2 Links in OoT. The one who will have a family with Malon, and has just drained the well, and the one who is supposed to finish the game. Lets call the Link we just followed to this point Link A, and the Link native to this alteration of OoT Link B. Link A (originally an OoT Link himself) finished OoT without the song, went to Termina, learned the song, came back to Hyrule, and drained the well. Link B now has something to learn as an adult. Link must have been input at the time he left Hyrule for Termina in order for Link A not to meet Link B. The only hole from there is that they can still meet as adults. Now if Adult Link A is on some quest or other away from Hyrule when Adult Link B is actively combatting Ganondorf, they don't meet. So Link A starts in OoT, goes to Termina to learn SoS, comes is brought back by the Goddess of time to a point of Hyrule that Link B also existed for a short time, Link A goes questing and drains the well, Link B learns the song and goes back to get the lens, Link B conquers Gannon, is sent back and becomes the new MM Link after resolving OoT for good. Link A then returns and has a family with Malon.
...I think my brain just exploded.
Time travel itself makes a paradox because u go to the past to change something, then the timeline u came from never happens then what u did never happens and it just on and on no stop
THIS!! THIS HAS BEEN MY THEORY!!! ALL THE PIECES FIT! Majora's mask link is the ORIGINAL creator of the paradox!
majora's mask is SOOO underrated and gives lineage to the greatest song in the story!
thanks for breaking it down whenever i try to explain it, people get looped around and like "WHAT? thats stupid and doesn't make sense i can't follow it!"
Great Channel keep it up :]
YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I KNOW THAT HAS A SENSE OF TIME!!!
If Majoras Mask Link's efforts to help Hyrule were erased from the timeline by the paradox he created would that also explain why the "Hero's Shade" laments about not being remembered for being a Hero?, Since the Timeline he inhabits no longer remembers him saving Hyrule or being the Hero of Time leaving behind a restless shadow of him to pass on his skills to the next Hero..
very spot on. i love your approach and analysis
Heavy stuff vortex. You are the uno par excellence
I think the paradox is more for the player then Link. The well is drained when you as adult link arrive meaning a young link already drained the well.
I think the origin is a bit more boring than that, although it does require a bit more open mindness. Guru Guru originally either learns the song from whoever (or craft it himself perhaps with a certain purpose). Then he regrets it later and... here is where you need to consider past, present and future at once. He learned from whoever or made it himself in those 7 years, and then when adult link shows up, he teaches him in a very similar manner. Then adult Link goes back into the past and shows Guru Guru the song earlier than he would have learned/developed, but the end result is pretty similar.
The reason why we won't see it is that, when adult Link awakens, his own trip to the past to change it might still be in his own mental time future, the changes that he will do will be done to the past, so they already took place the moment he awakens - because the past already happened, so that meeting essentially gets erased from observable history. The paradox becomes stable simply because it is the only constant part of the story allowing for a singular linear timeline without the need for a split in the timeline that is not quite a split as a paradox on itself, so not having the split is simply more stable.
In version one, you have two "nows" at that particular point in time - and worst, one has to happen before the other, even though they simultaneously have to correspond to the same point in time! Not working, one has to prevail and erase the other. There is the "now" which happens when GuruGuru learns it elsewhere/write the song himself and then teaches Link, who then travels to the past and creates an alternate version of said past where he taught GuruGuru instead. Now we got two versions of the event associated with the SAME point in time, and yet one has to happen before the other at the same time - that would be a bigger time paradox, that cannot be. The version in which Link teaches GuruGuru and then himself cannot be erased, because if it gets erased, that means the first version of this "now" still exists, so adult Link will still learn it from GuruGuru, and then travel back in time and teach GuruGuru, recreating the second version of the events. The version where link teaches GuruGuru who then teaches Link is always bound to be created as long as the first version exists. And it doesn't inherently cause the first version to exist either. This second version is a stable self-contained information through time loop. The first version is the problematic one. As said, if it exists, it always creates the second version of that moment in time that is simultaneously also after. However, because that version is a stable self contained loop, the destruction of this first version where GuruGuru learned elsewhere has no other impact other than destroying itself and making the timeline stable again - if it is destroyed, there are no longer two moments associated with that period of time that are simultaneously sequential events.
The reason we don't see the first version where GuruGuru learn the song from some other source is exactly because the mere fact it was going to happen once guarantees the conditions which result in the first versions destructions and removal from the timeline continuum. It destroys itself simply because it would happen if it existed.
first of all,
i'm damn happy to see MM link survived!
i mean i took game theory's theory as a canon and was sad about it ._.
but i still couldn't understand much @_@ confused i'm...
but as much as i could understand,it was brilliant :3
and after two theory...i must subscribe to ur channel :D
Im a huge fan of GT and Matpat but I dont give any of his Zelda theories much stock. The fact that Link in TP is a descendant of that Link,meaning he grows and has a family,and that that OoT/MM Link has a full grown body as the heros shade in TP means he grew alot more before his death,he even gets taller than when he pulled the sword because pulled sword link is 15ish and not full grown yet either.
well yes :3
and tbh, i stopped thinking about zelda timeline more and more and started enjoying them as individual games :3
it's fun that way i guess :v
foxguy90 Ready for your world to be blown from Miyamoto himself(creator of the games for the not so hardcore) says hes 7 or 8 before he pulls the Mastersword,yes 7 years pass,but hes only 14 or 15 as "adult" Link since in Japan 15 is the age of social adulthood,not the same as legal adulthood. Google it,include Miyamoto in the search to find his words easier as opposed to all the pure fan theories that are on most sites.
*gif of Patrick's head fizzling out*
Wha...? I know a lot about Zelda, but I think this just melted my Brain.
Ever think maybe in the downfall timeline somewhere a linnk goes back into the past to make sure the hero of time succeeds? Perhaps in the very first timeline after the heroes downfall the song is created and a new link learns it and teaches it to the past. After all when a new timeline is created the old one doesnt stop as seen by adult timeline....
I feel like there's a few too many assumptions made in this, for one thing, guru guru is playing the song of storms from the moment you step into the windmill as young link. it's his song that he's writing, the problem he has isn't that the song was played, but that link played it on a magic ocarina, causing it's power to be activated. so when you show up in the future, he's mad about what you already did in the past, but the song doesn't come from nowhere. and for the most part, in the future, things you did in the past are already done before you do them, with the major exception being jabu jabu moving to the side, but that's probably just a design oversight since you weren't supposed to be able to reach the future without getting him to move. the only thing you change by going to the past and doing things is your own experiences. so guru guru doesn't teach you the song until the future when he's motivated to do so out of anger, but he's known it the whole time.
Good ass theory, never thought about it like that
I noticed something, In Ocarina of Time Guru Guru knows the song already even before the player makes the action of going to the past and teach the song to him.
However for some reason this same principle does not apply to the seeds you plant in the past in order to use them as platforms 7 years later in the future.
If the game were consistent then all platforms would work in the future even if you haven´t already planted the seeds in the past earlier in your playthrough.
Now I´m sure this was done for gameplay purposes, but still.
This is only true if Majora's Mask Link planted those seeds that OoT link didn't plant.
I've got a stupid reason : you had no chance to defeat Ganon without the len of truth, while you could do it without the seeds...
All series of events leading to the creation of the "good" timelines (and the survival of Termina) implied the creation of a time paradox :P
By the way, if you are ready to think that you (player) aren't as good as the original link from Majora's Mask, then it fits with this video because can you get a good reason to make Majora-Mask-Link messing up the timelines and starting a paradox :x
very good theory i'm behind it all the way
I always thought it was a different kid who taught the windmill man.
I think I can tie it together for you... when MM Link goes back to Hyrule, OOT Link has already taken the Master Sword and is sealed away for 7 years. While OOT Link is sealed, Ganondorf is taking over the country, so MM Link tries to stop him. However, OOT Link has already taken the Master Sword, so MM Link does not have that as an option. MM Link tries to make do with what he does have available, including using the song in the windmill to try to help him. Unfortunately, without the Master Sword and other adult items (Light Arrow, etc.), MM Link fails to defeat Ganondorf and turns into the Stalfos who is later seen in TP. So MM Link doesn't "disappear" later, he is just defeated every time.
Matt Julson In Twilight Princess we find out that Ganondorf was to be executed, because after OOT Link went back to relive his childhood he told the king about the future and showed his triforce of courage as proof. So how can Ganondorf kill MM Link if his scheme is foiled before he could anything about it? In TP Ganondorf is sealed in the Twilight realm, the execution goes wrong and that's the only option the sages have to save Hyrule. So he's sealed, how can he kill MM Link?
Matt Julson Wrong theory, two links never existed at the same time, the child prevented Ganon from taking over. So there is no need for an adult.