I am always astounded how many people don't seem to understand that Dr. Peterson doesn't "interview" he has conversations and is kind enough to invite us to listen
If I heard correctly Dr Peterson is known for talking 'God'. If my recollection is correct Dr Peterson also supported Palestinian expulsion. If this is correct I would conclude that Dr Peterson doesn't know the ways of justice or the way the Son of Yahuveh taught his followers. But who is the God of this world?
@jameseckersley4597 I understood a lecture as being carried out by a singular lecturer. Simply by nature of what it is. So this exercise would have to be described as a dual lecture. (Even though that's somewhat of a novel idea) Since both participants are employing elements of communication that could be described as lecturing.
There's a phenomenal channel that has featured Jamie quite a bit called Rebel Wisdom....I highly recommend the series from there he is a part of called "The War on Sense Making.". You won't be disappointed.
Jamie’s blog posts - pretty much the only things I could tolerate reading at the height of media about “israel v hamas” His writings are literally just his personal journal entries as he goes through ideas, I love it
St Augustine, Dr of the Church knew: Our hearts are restless until they rest in God, who is truth itself. May everyone reading this have a blessed day.
He gets too religious, he loses me on this "god" stuff. I just get angry when people speak of this "god" entity. What do they see that I can't? What am I excluded from that I can't find? I don't think this "god" exists!!!! It's juts a lie people tell themselves to cope with the knowledge of their own mortality. "God" is just a cope. "God" is fiction.
Dearest Dr. Peterson, you spoke very well indeed at the event yesterday. I can’t tell you how happy it made me to see you completely surrounded by people who love you, getting all the hugs, and getting to speak and to listen, all the while looking so well and so healthy. It looked like your day did you all the good in the world, just as I prayed that it might. You needed that. I was so moved to see you praying the Lord’s Prayer with Russel because the last time I saw you pray that it was in a prayerful video you made when you were so desperately ill, and your face a mask of suffering, but your spirit shining through the brokenness of your body. And now you are well again, thank God again and again for it. It was a blessed Michaelmas. I did my bit at home to rescue the republic. I brought my kids to church. I took them for a long autumnal walk and we picked flowers and berries and threw rocks in the river. I snuggled them and read to them from their children’s Bible. I made a big pot of chicken soup from scratch to feed them homemade food. And I watched the live stream event all day. I would have liked yo be with you all in person but for now, I was content to be with you in spirit. With Ruth Anne’s love
@afringedgentian5426 Stupid; you say! Thank you for your (insignificant) response. The true (Word of God) reaches all understanding. And we shall all bow our knee to HIM!
This quite literally may be one of the most important discussions I have ever witnessed in the entirety of my life thus far!! Just incredible absolutely incredible
One of the best back and forth eye to eye conversations, I hear thus far on Dr. Petersons Podcast. Lots of active listening on both sides, and that the guest ask clarifying questions of Dr. Peterson was great. At times it was hard to tell who‘s podcast it was 😀👍 Fantastic.
Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave. G.K. Chesterton
That's upside down and backwards. Christianity has destroyed people ang groups all over the world, most notably the Jews whom it spent 1600 years trying to eliminate. But the Jews have risen again.
@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 to some degree, yes. But he is also seeking to get more facets of the story extracted from other people. And 5 pages is not enough for this story 🙂
@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 the first conversations Peterson does with someone usually are that way. Around an hour fifteen in , the fishing talk was about all I noticed new to him. People like Vervaeke or Pageau who he’s had a few talks with is when the new stuff usually comes out.
Iraqi Christian in Australia, 35 years. Love the reference to the Eluma Ilish Mesopotamian story that Jordan coincides with the birth of Genesis - generally a symbiotic but often a predatory concurrent growth, 11:20 Proud of the contribution of my forebears on civilisational development even though it's not evident much now with the Islamic takeover of the Middle East. Thanks again 👍🏼
Only five minutes in and I already have a flood of thoughts. First of all, the title of Jamie’s book makes me smile. It is in reference to the “wise thrush” in Robert Browning’s poem “Home Thoughts From Abroad:” “Lest you think he never can recapture that first, fine, careless rapture!” And then with regard to the death of God, I do think we moderns don’t realize the extent to which the Great War broke humanity, as a whole. It was the first mechanized war. Through my study of some of the literature of the time period… and I’m not an expert but I studied with professors who were… I saw the societal and spiritual breakdown of our collective psyche, and I don’t think humanity has ever really recovered. Thus, “the death of God” because it seemed there was no sense to be made of such mass catastrophe. And then when I think of Zarathustra lamenting the death of God, his entire monologue a shriek of centuries of anguish, I think of the two on the road to Emmaus, who were weeping and lamenting the death of God, but God was walking right beside them in the person of Our Lord. And I think that the same applies today. God walks with us even when our eyes are holden and we do not know. I was reading Robert Frost’s autumnal poem “In Hardwood Groves” to my kids, and I was struck by the thought that the rhythms and patterns of nature are a way to understand the cycles of human history. And so “the death of God” could be the death of the leaves that “must go down past things coming up”. And that is the only way for Resurrection and a new season to come. “However it is in some other world, I know it is this way in ours.” With Ruth Anne’s love
Thank you for making this comment. I resonate with the road to Emmaus story. Every time when I think or feel God is not with me or things are not going well, He always shows how He is with me in away I can’t deny. But I never relate Emmaus road story with the Western ( I am not western) idea of “God is dead”, “we are not religious anymore “….even though I believe the West will be Christianised again.
I suppose every generation has it's own version of faith that is adapted to the emotional landscape of their period. Maybe it is up to us Zoomers to return to Christianity, or succumb to something else, that's our choice to make and it depends on our level of desperation and sobriety. I myself believe wholeheartedly in the value of Christianity but have no regular embodied practice because my life has stayed in its busy secular mode. If some natural disaster hit my area, or if my heart were unreconcilably broken I would definitely rely on a stronger faith to get me out of there.
summary of jordan's philosophy: 1. the spirit of adventure 2. the optimal game of maximum participation and maximum duration. 3. an implicit moral order is in the optimal game. to learn more read his upcoming book "the spirit of adventure and the infinite game" just roughhousing
@@namelessbroadcaster My sense of this ‘implicit moral order’ is that it is not fixed in place. By its nature, as a reflection of our own, it cannot be immutable. It has to evolve slowly, and be held up with equanimity at the same time. That requires great strength, both explicit and implicit. The failure to do so might appear to be a moral failure, but is at its essence a collective failure of will. The spirit necessary to continue to turn that great wheel.
I've read recapture the rapture. It was amazing. I want to listen to Jamie wheel! We already know what Jordan knows and feels. Jamie is one of the few secular voices that is trying to engage spirituality without falling back on monotheisms, such a potentially fertile ground of inquiry, and Jordan just sprinkles weed killer over all of it with his insistence of being the main voice in this discussion. Opposite of what he says around 54:35, probably due to guilty conscience 😅
Yeah, that’s pretty much my main criticism of this podcast is that I leave it feeling like I don’t know enough about what Jamie is all about. Which is the opposite of how one should feel about an interviewee after an interview.
When he said, why impose ten commandments now, why not just impose the sermon on the mount, I don't want to go and watch any of his other so called lectures. You know what to expect.
The LIGHT that this conversation sheds at this very late hour is profound. I would love to listen to Jordan's exposition on the relationship between true LIGHT, LIFE, and LOVE.
Thoroughly enjoyed this whole conversation and have quite a few more books that have been added to my book list! My biggest take away is a reminder to have faith that life is fundamentally good and that good cannot be reduced to your emotional state within this hedonic realm, because beneficial things can be painful and harmful things can feel pleasurable.
Thank you Jordan! Your powerful insight at Rescue the Republic rally nailed it!!! Sacrifice=the strait and narrow way to LIFE Power=the wide gate and broad Way to destruction Matthew 7:13-14, Luke 13:24👏👏👏
Dr. Peterson, I’ve been a long time listener of you. I’ve posted many comments reaching out. How does someone who’s not socially high up have a conversation with you. I don’t ask for a lot in this life, and it would be a blessing the be able to talk. I’ve been on a crazy path of self discovery and growth. I also grew up without a father figure and believe that’s why I gravitate towards you as an ideal. Anyways I know this is another long shot, but worth it. Have a great day Jordan!
You probably won't get audience with him, but perhaps you could ask questions in these comments sections that might bring you closer to the things you are seeking. I would suggest that it has nothing to do with social standing and everything to do with what you are able to offer. If you ask interesting questions, you would be offering him, and anybody who reads these comments, something that could be considered "food for thought", that he might speak to in some way. Don't feel bad, because there are probably hundreds of people with standing, with money, with education etc, that would love to speak with him too. And thousands of people who would love to have a few private counselling sessions with him. I suspect that if you read his books and sit and write a real letter to him, you would do much better than tossing off a quick comment. Good luck in your healing journey!
Dr. Peterson reads and responds to comments. If he hasn’t responded to yours, then I’m afraid you have your answer. You don’t. I’m sorry it isn’t the one you wanted. Very best luck.
I appreciate Dr Wheal having this conversation. While I don't agree with everything he claims, I was able to learn a lot about centre-leftist psychological thought through what he had to say.
Jordan has 100% been shadow banned/limited exposure because the views have plummeted, yet the content has never been better. As always a brilliant discussion that has left me thinking. Thank you Dr. Peterson.
Agree with you. The comments board was also very messed up for the first 12 hours. Comments and replies were disappearing in real time, and many were obviously trolls and spammers. There were only 250 comments in 12 hours, and one commenter told me that he could only see my reply through his notifications, but that he couldn't respond to me until nearly 24 hours later. It was really messed up. Fewer than 20% of the comments were really relevant, almost as though the algo bots were deleting the good comments and leaving the rotten ones behind. Even though I've been subbed for about 7 years, without notifications turned on, he never appears in my feed. With them turned on, he appears in my feed, but I never get notifications...And then there was the day that he didn't come up in the search at all...
@@muskratdove that's not jordan being shadow banned, that's jordan's viewers being shadowbanned. I know I'm shadowbanned by youtube because western leftists will report anyone who doesn't conform to their ideology and when the reports pile up, youtube will automatically flag your account regardless of whether the reports are legit or not.
honestly jordan's content has really deteriorated. It's also really bothering me that he's starting businesses left and right with his daughter, and then with his son... it removes power from what he says and lends strength to the wokies calling him a "grifter". Plus constantly trying to shoehorn in god/religion in places where it's incredibly forced is frustrating, because to a rational person, the moment you invoke god in your argument, it kind of loses all its power. Despite the fact that the ideas are really great.
@@ysf-d9i well, I totally disagree with your perspective, I really enjoy the content and I am a regular listener. However in saying that, I’m not suggesting your opinion has no merit; just that I don’t share those opinions. I do have a query and a kind of case to make about your being bothered by him ‘setting up businesses with his children’. My brother has 5 kids and I am starting my own family at the moment. He and i own a pretty successful business together. Since becoming successful enough to have time to look around and think, rather than just ‘doing the work. We have found ourselves brainstorming regularly what businesses we could help the kids create going forward and as we become more successful it’s happening more and more. It seems that (Atleast for us) all we can do when we think long term is project ideas towards his kids (and hopefully soon to be my kids as well). We we are by no means as successful as Jordan, but how else better to continue the family progression and cumulative work than through the willing participation of your children? It’s very easy for us to see that the kids have interests and values that lend themselves to certain environments/businesses and us as parents may be able to share some helpful insight as they move forward (we hope). Because the wolves of the world often eat the young whole without help from their parents. Jordan is extremely intelligent, and entrepreneurial, so his advice from a business standpoint would be invaluable to anyone, especially his own children who he can help on a personal and more regular basis, with the added motivation of wanting nothing but the best for them. I wish I could get my kids to have discussions about their future with him, that’s for sure. But sadly my and my brothers kids have and will have us 😂😂, just trying our best). So in conclusion me and my brother are by no means grifters, we are grafters through and through. But I just don’t see how wanting a strong/‘good’ future for your kids, and helping them to create it is a ‘grift’? I can only summise that these people/‘wokies’ calling it a grift, have no children and simply do not understand what it means to have kids and want what is best for them because most ‘wokies’ are immature and self obsessed with a short term view of reality (in my experience with those types). So I think k Jordan simply doesn’t care what the wokies think, I know I absolutely couldn’t give any less of a shit myself 😂. On the ‘shoe horn in god’ side of things, I believe we are currently in a bit of a societal crisis. And when talking about it, it’s hard not to mention the bible/god, as for thousands of years, that is what held the fabric together as far as I can see, or Atleast in the Old Testament suggested ways to structure society very strongly. When he’s not discussing these things (which isn’t often because it absolutely is his field of expertise). It is barely mentioned, the most recent video posted about string theory… I don’t think mentions god once. Because it’s not relevant in a way he can apply his knowledge. But it’s nothing new for Jordan to be talking about god. Check out his first series about the bible stories on youtube (which he made at his own cost with no idea how popular they would be). But after they performed better than any of her form of religious content on the internet by a wide margin, he would be stupid not to have followed that up as it clearly resonated with millions of people, me being one of them. Well mate, I hope to continue our discussion, but my time in the waiting room is coming to an end 😂. Lots of love and GOD bless brother, may you bring success for your children as Jordan and I have, and not have people call your a grifter for doing so, when you do ;)! ❤️
Finally it happened, not even my whining uterus will stop me from watching this tonight. 2 highly, highly intelligent people, getting at it ... What a time to be alive 😍🤩🎉
50:00 - If you had a desire for power, decision making revolving around it would leave wreckage, due to the lack of empathy mentioned above. So if a person always wants to leave you in a wreckage, rats showed that on unfair playing grounds (lost more then 33 percent of the time), makes the behavior not "playful" and the rats stopped playing. Showing that with free will, if your will imposes on others, they won't want to be apart of your reality. 55:00 - Jordan is talking about when people are accepting of others, they worked together and progressed faster. Also how much more significance people find in decisions when found together then by yourself. 58:00 - If you were to love your enemy and be okay with at least hearing their view would give you insight to the polar opposite opinion, if they were playing by the same set of variables. 1:00:00 - Talking about dark triad traits are 5 percent of this representation of people, that have amplified strength through social media platforms and being anonymity. Opens a portal of mass communication through these cracks of society and these negative behaviors. Which is manipulating behaviors, of people who wouldn't normally exude these traits normally. 1:04:00 - Jordan faces the opposite critic that is trying to impose that religion can be confining and also be taken over by these evil traits (which has happened in history). People can relate and push a narrative of these negative behaviors on religions due the opposite contrasts. He also talks about people with lower agreeable personality traits (woman tend to be higher on agreeableness), makes them very exposed to tactics used by dark personalities. It's becoming a massive problem for society due to the learnt traumas being formed on these people, due to the parasitic nature of the behaviors. 1:07:20 - With everyone having a flat playing field where no strengths are highlighted, in society, it can be viewed as offensive to call out "evil" behavior (irony), due sensitivity reasons. (ooooooooo). This creates a messy society that allows criminals to create mass confusion where it's impossible to be held accountable. Since you can't also call it out, how can anyone doing something bad be stopped. 1:10:00 - Also when you don't get stopped in your tracks when you are down a path of temptation, YOU WON'T STOP YOURSELF. (Tea boiling) People usually regulate to good behavior because it has a natural path of lighting others up and creating a positive sense of meaning derived from the reinforcements of expression that others project to you. 1:13:00 - Even though there can be competitive grounds with others, a part of the game is being able to win and lose. It's that playful aspect that makes the game itself attractable. But the game can be ruined when people involve manipulative pseudo behaviors to the game, that grow advantages and then the person justifies a obvious 1 sided game. (DAAAAMMMM). When people find out of manipulative tactics, they will lock onto it very fast and will hold you to that behavior. 1:16:20 - Talking about how in society there are people who bring superior analytical information to the world which is over saturated. Then if someone who comes forward with superior spiritual information should not be taken out. Jordan goes on how its necessary that both of these figures rise to balance each other out. You constantly need this balance and tilt behaviors in either direction when it tips to far on one side. 1:19:00 - Talking in societal decisions, when to take the direction to the other side when things become unbalanced. But now in corporate, CEO to Worker was 30:1 and is now 300:1 pay ratios (10 x uptick, when is it changing). Ideologies also becoming very out of touch and blown to much into direction. one? 1:20:40 - How should these ideologies be approached and when things become to in favor of one side? It's a problem if accumulation of goods becomes more and more scarce and 1 sided. Once you get wealth, that doesn't necessarily means that the person did good things to get that money and knows what to do with that money. 1:23:00 - Jordan getting spicy about how small scale experiments had too much impact on large scale models. And to have a model that accounts for all problems to be well thought out for long term consequence. It's very important to have polarizing approaches to any situation because you should not make policy on biased side of the equation. 1:25:40 - Psychological stability/growth and associated interactions that emerge from those principles should be taken with decision making. Even if you don't necessarily have a inclination to help others, it goes along the lines "treat others how you want to be treated". 1:27:45 - Talking about how greed can absolutely destroy you as a human. If you do not contain the separation of wealth/greed, there is always a price to pay for the source of that perceived wealth (nothing comes free in life, think about the consequences). 1:29:30 - Talking about if you find sanctity in a ideology that ultimately holds you accountable to be noble and good, Jordan can relate to those principles to that as a Christian. Some ideologies only talk about one side of a polarization and if the ideology at least outlines a positive, you don't necessarily have a complete understanding of all the evil. 1:32:50 - If you were to follow more of a intellectual ideology, at least you have to understand that a person who just seeking/projecting painful/negative outcomes, then its important to call them out on that.... (TRUEEEEEEE) Also going on the opposite spectrum if you were to support positive behaviors that hold people to a better standard of living then it brings you in alignment to the same beliefs as a religion.
@peterbelanger4094 If you were as intelligent as Peterson or Dawkins, that would be a lovely conversation to have with you. Unfortunately your question shows you don't have the sophistication to navigate those topics.
@@peterbelanger4094 Believe it or not Woke and DEI are a finger print of God. The problem is they deny God and his set laws and as a result make his finger print their god. And any time you raise only a fraction of truth to the ultimate truth you get a hell like existence.
This conversation has sparked my eagerness, knowing that Jordan is now just one step away from interviewing Daniel Schmachtenberger. It will be one to behold.
Peterson is really intelligent if he read and mentioned for the past minutes, Mircea Eliade, a romanian writer and historian that has the most complex explanations for the human spirituality❤ amazing. thank you
Good morning Jordan and Jamie Exactly all of this. Resonates a whole lot with me and my continued challenges of old and indeed bloody brand new. A wee bit unbelievable to me how many situations seem to be repeating both within the micro and macro levels of chaos right now. However strangely grateful for it regardless of its crazy repeating situations. In short. God knows I require a new mountain to not be pushed to jump from but to perhaps leap from and towards. After finally leaving my previous nursing post and starting a new nursing role only four weeks ago. I know this new challenge is not for me and sadly a bit of a waste of my time and energy. Soul destroying in all honesty. Anyways truly grateful for your again shared conversation. Sanity sensemaking brain gym, indeed. Thank you. 💜
Can't help thinking this is a discussion about someone they both heard of but have never met. Faith is a gift- Jesus is a person. Many people could describe your parents- but you know your parents in a way none of their descriptions could comprehend.
I prayed to take the sins of this dark world as my own, low and behold it was so powerful and heart felt that it brought Christ back to life. God is good and he saw I was good.
58:34 Good on you, Jamie Wheal, for trying to call Peterson out on how he’s allowing himself to be used by bad actors, and for offering a suggestion of how he could do better. Too bad Peterson wasn’t brave enough to engage you on those statements, but I know he heard them and will be thinking about it. Hopefully he will eventually take your advice. 😊
Another militant atheist expressing the belief that it is all a game and you must persuade people to play the game you want them to play because you are a game master, and your whims are morality, and you are not a real believer. Peterson is sawing his own legs off. People thought he was a bridge from evolutionary psychology to Christianity and he's a black propaganda pusher from evolution dogmatists to Christians. The god of real believers is not a metaphor in their imagination. It is a placeholder for the creator of the universe and too big for their imaginations. They are playing the wrong game and slowly undoing their own progress. Peterson is slowing building his box of irrelevance to place himself in. He is declaring that God is the imagination instead of understanding that God is the great architect of the universe. The recent issues, including this one at 58:34 reveals that he is directly playing a game of feeding people what he believes is a metaphor for purposes of controlling their behavior. What he and this guy fail to realize, is that the people they hate have just as much moral validity as they do if they are right about morality not having a divine origin in the first place. He is now a 'right makes right' preacher. He is a completely different teacher now than he used to be, probably because he is now paid for by Zionists at the daily wire. He of course wants me unmasked here, so his Jewish handlers could make sure I never worked again and had to live in a cardboard box for this insolence. Peterson has turned, genuinely turned.
Agree! “Can we try that?” was a brilliant opener to a beautiful invitation. He set it up with the vision of the crowd and Peterson’s influence with a subtle constructive criticism then calls him out with a direct ask to step up his infinite game. It was beautiful to watch and quite disappointing to see Peterson drop the ball. Maybe he has a blind spot?
Very raw and intelligent conversation. I think another perspective is too see the individual in terms of impacting issues upon them and how this wall drives behaviour depending on your status of health and age. Forming a determinism in individualised living that needs reliefs for sustaining to get a continuum, rather than ad hoc effects upon the living society.
I've come to understand God as the universe itself without being limited by that. God is reality and truth while also being the fundamental order those things are built upon.
You just want to reappropriate Christianity without having any genuine faith. That's not going to revive people's spirit. We already have that, all of that Christ-consciousness BS, New Age spirituality with a Christian theme, progressive churches, etc. It's not doing anyone any good. We need ACTUAL religion. Actual spirituality. Like, the kind that is all in your face when you walk into a Catholic or Orthodox church or a worship service in an Anglican cathedral or in a traditional Reformed Presbyterian church. Hierarchy, humility, tradition, order, self-denial. That's what we need in this time of moral relativism, selfishness, hedonism and rejection of order in favor of chaos and unlimited freedom.
Thanks! Jordan, You have made as big of a positive difference in my life as anyone has, other than my two sons. Maybe one day we can actually sit down and enjoy coffee together.😀
Wheal did his best to get Peterson to admit at least partial responsibility for the far right crazies, a favorite tactic of the elite left. Jordan parried him with ease. Jordan's vocabulary has moved to a new level, now combining rigorous, cutting edge scholarship in his field with an ever deeper understanding of the wisdom of the ages. He's the most articulate intellectual in public life today. Wheal talks like an upper class technocrat speaking to members in an ESG corporate boardroom with Klaus Schwab at the head of the table.
I appreciate both JBP and Jamie Wheal, I listened to both for many many years, thanks to that old channel Rebel Wisdom that isn't active anymore unfortunately. They're both geniuses. It's true that Wheal is more centrist and sceptical of the right. I think that's good. It's great that the two could talk freely about this impass, especially considering the Daily Wire itself is explicitly right wing, that shows that the right is way ahead of the left in terms of allowing conversation. I think this criticism of JBP is absolutely valid.
Came here to say exactly this. It started around the 1:00:00 mark, where he is trying to steer the conversation and setup Dr. Peterson, then the “risk” he’d “like to take,” is trying to corner Peterson into admitting that he has something to do with intellectually dishonest people, while he himself is being one. The hypocrisy is palpable. So is his arrogance throughout the entire conversation. Keep trying left. You have a long way to go to get out of your own arrogance and back to intellectual honesty. Maybe try admitting God exists, and go strike up a conversation with Him. Let Him put you back in your rightful place.
If a government official asks your company to comply with something that is immoral and unconstitutional, then by all means, you should 100% NOT COMPLY. The real problem is that most people don't understand what is and isn't immoral and unconstitutional.
That's because in atheism, nothing is immoral, and atheist dogma is now called science. A mere few months ago he was debating atheist and affirming a physically empty tomb. Now he's cast his lot in a large cabal of them for a job as game master or something.
When Jordan describes the effect of anonymity, I can't help but think the proliferation of masks into society during the pandemic must have, by definition, exacerbated this negative quality.
But both Abraham and Moses did not want to do this alone (go out) Abraham chose Lot and Moses got Aaron because of their reluctance to do the thing required alone. I think God chose them because they were not control freaks trying to take over the world. They were humble in His hands. And look at what is ruling or trying to rule us now. God said he would give us the leaders we deserve - time for repentance I think.
The more I have look and tried to find this mythical entity, the more it has eluded me. I don't think this "god" character actually exists. You people are delusional. There is no "god".
God is not reborn. God is Resurrected. It's a marvelous echo of the arc of Christ. As Christ was betrayed, crucified, & resurrected. So too Rationality/Enlightenment principles betrayed & crucified the Logos that gave rise to it in the first place. The reemergence and reintegration of those metanarrative structures is antidotal to so much that's going wrong today. Thank you, Dr Peterson, for your contribution to that process.
The dichotomy that JP articulates at the outset leaves out entirely either the Vedic worldview of the universe as a dance or the Taoist one of flow - so free of the need to guilt trip oneself with which JP wrestles eternally, notwithstanding his hero Jung being so attuned to these ideas
The power of prayer must have been felt by him during that touch and go period. Soon after that Tammy openly speaking about how people's prayers pulled her back from the edge of death
Dr. Jordan Peterson, I want to extend my deep thanks to you for all the enlightening insights I have gained from you on multiple levels ; intellectually, spiritually, and existentially . I’d also like to extend a firm handshake in appreciation for your discerning and sharp insights during the encounter. I’d like to add a brief comment to your discussion, particularly regarding the concept mentioned around 44:17 in the episode. Using the concept of Dabo Vahubo (দাবো বহুব in Bengali) to describe God’s creation might not fully align with the Islamic perspective. In Dabo Vahubo, the world is seen as a joyful, playful expression of the Divine, which can imply a lack of seriousness or purpose. However, from the Qur'anic perspective, the creation of the heavens and the earth is a serious, purposeful act, not merely a play or amusement: بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم "وما خلقنا السماء والأرض وما بينهما لاعبين" In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful "And We did not create the heavens and the earth and what is between them in play." (Surah Al-Anbiya, 21:16) Additionally, based on Platonic philosophy, the term Dabo Vahubo is not appropriate for the Monad or the Transcendent, which represent ultimate seriousness and purpose beyond mere play.. With my deepest respect. 🙏
Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’' - John 14:6 AMP
Wester civilization, USA and progress were build by old Christians and a few young atheist that lather got older and become the present day old Christians. A majority of atheists will create a Sheol on earth that wants the liberty of democracy on steroids, because even old demons want more liberal liberty after all more freedom more chances to do evil.
LOL, no, I'm not going to live by some cryptic words out of an old outdated BOOK. You people actually worship that BOOK, as if it were an idol. That BOOK sucks!!!! It's unreadble, it makes no sense and contradicts itself. One would go crazy hyper-analizing trying to find "messages from god"
@@peterbelanger4094 What do you mean "You people!"? Are you afraid of the free will of others? Should we all be your slaves thinking just like you mien Fuhrer?
@@peterbelanger4094You'll sooner go crazy trying to invent a map of life without any sort of foundation upon which to build your pathway forward. I think that approach lacks both foresight and insight, both of which you can take from ancient wisdom, whether you believe the literal stories or accept them as allegorical.
Adding words that weren't included in the original transcription obscures the point, it doesn't expand upon it. Our sociological contexts ought not be imposed upon the writings of ancient cultures, rather we ought to learn about the culture. The clarity comes with the context.
At around an hour into this what I realized about Wheal, the thing that, however intelligent and serviceably affable he is, all the same instinctively repels me is: he's a snob. He is burdened with an intrinsic, pervasive snobbery, a need to prove who he's superior to, that permeates everyting he says with a sourness, that instantly triggers my antipathy and desire to be nowhere near him. It's like that feeling you get from a person who grins at you with a clownlike exaggerated toothy smile but... there's zero smile in the eyes, even worse, you sense some hidden purpose in that gaze. That's the feeling he gives me.
To me, God's command not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which results in the fall of mankind, means that - to enter the kingdom - we have to return to a state in which we recognize that there is no force called "evil," but only opportunities to learn through "hardship" or obstacles. So, to become like a child, an innocent, means to do away with the notion of evil and recognize that everything in creation is perfect and we, humanity, just has to surrender to the divine, understand that we are of God and then fear falls away
"god" is not even a word that can be defined. I have no idea what people are talking about when they speak it. Some fantasy? Get real children, there is no "god".
I do appreciate Peterson viewing the christian worldview through the lens of psychology. To me, it always seems he views God through the ontologcal premise of being a maximally great being and that He is more of a goal rather than a friend. I always think of the what C.S. Lewis said on morality and I'm paraphrasing here. Morality isn't a quest for individual enlightenment it is instructions for all of humanity. What good does it do to point out a ship is sinking when there are those not in formation with the rest? What good does it do to say an instrument is out of tune when there are some not in harmony with the rest? While those are deep questions on there own. The bigger questions are where are we sailing to? And who are we playing for?
"To me, it always seems he views God through the ontologcal premise of being a maximally great being ". That is false. He believes god is a construct of his listener's imagination and that prayers are answered by something akin to perception alignments, etc.. That came out in his show with Heather and Brett. I am talking about this on UA-cam as much as possible because I spent years listening to him and even debating the merits of stuff against people like Vox Day, and he undid half of his previous character statements. Now he's transitioning to some kind of Atheist Game Master and doing things talking circuits with others about the "game", because they are building entire events and plans where they will be running this game on people without those people knowing they mean their own imagination instead of "El Elyon" or "Allah" who are the creators of the universe and not some imaginary friend or psychological principal that answers prayers via self-talk. I wish I had spent those years listening to "Intelligence for your Life" with John Tesh and Gib Gerard instead. I feel like I was conned. The books and lectures helped me greatly in a time of despair and the American job market, and I will never forget that, but a real Christian would be doing himself and others a real disservice if they let the "game master" peaching god-as-your-imagination doctrine go unrevealed.
I was atheist. One day (March 1995) I say to myself "There's a waste of time to think about God that doesn't exist. We must explain what exists". The next day I became a believer. The universe exists, life exists. What is the goal of life? Ask the first microbe in the universe and you will find the answer. The goal of life is TO BE. The only way to reach the goal is to overcome all the dangers in the universe, the goal is an Almighty being ruling over the universe. Atheism means to give up, atheism means to be against life. Revelation 1:8 explains the goal of life.
Nuh-uh, more like I choose my freedom and right to non-existence rather than look to a concept that the human brain (in our finite wisdom) manifested just because we try to appoint meaning to everything, even when there is none. Ridiculous and I'm completely here for it. Even if there DOES exist a god in the way you zealots imagine, it's not a god who gives a f about you, IT'd be more akin to a force of nature. Which funnily enough, MAKES ACTUAL SENSE- rather than going through your life based off a "promise" (LOL) of INFINITE life when you can't even begin to comprehend the actual distances in time and space, let alone trying to say what will you be doing next week.
@@aheenobarbushenocied9880 you don't really have freedom though. You're just following whatever urges your neural networks developed through evolution + environmental training from childhood. for example, I know a guy who, even in the winter when it's -10 degrees and snowing, goes out to smoke every break. That's freedom? No, he's enslaved by his dopaminergic loop of addiction. He doesn't have the freedom to choose not to do it.
@@aheenobarbushenocied9880 There is no "Right to not existing". In the same way no one asks your opinion to be here on the planet your existence depends only on the desire of the last step of the evolution's chain. . The sooner you stop being a child and become an adult human being the better for you . Are you in favor or against life?
I am always astounded how many people don't seem to understand that Dr. Peterson doesn't "interview" he has conversations and is kind enough to invite us to listen
If I heard correctly Dr Peterson is known for talking 'God'. If my recollection is correct Dr Peterson also supported Palestinian expulsion. If this is correct I would conclude that Dr Peterson doesn't know the ways of justice or the way the Son of Yahuveh taught his followers. But who is the God of this world?
hmmm... conversation? I see and hear more of a lecture...
@@jameseckersley4597some conversations offer more than casual, shallow small talk
@jameseckersley4597 I understood a lecture as being carried out by a singular lecturer. Simply by nature of what it is. So this exercise would have to be described as a dual lecture. (Even though that's somewhat of a novel idea) Since both participants are employing elements of communication that could be described as lecturing.
And also seems to be thrashing out insights as he goes along. It's an investigation. Not a lecture.
Dr. Peterson is really talking about God more and more and I am all fir that!
This is probably the first time I’ve ever seen Jordan outmatched by the hand gestures.
It was a proper battle
Now I can't concentrate on their conversation! 😂😂
Looking forward to that 🤚 😅
I want more of Jamie Wheal! I think Jordan has met his intellectual match. 😊 Thank you for this conversation, both of you.
There's a phenomenal channel that has featured Jamie quite a bit called Rebel Wisdom....I highly recommend the series from there he is a part of called "The War on Sense Making.". You won't be disappointed.
Jamie’s blog posts - pretty much the only things I could tolerate reading at the height of media about “israel v hamas”
His writings are literally just his personal journal entries as he goes through ideas, I love it
St Augustine, Dr of the Church knew: Our hearts are restless until they rest in God, who is truth itself.
May everyone reading this have a blessed day.
@@Hermetic-onewas real and you (like everyone else) took his place by making a present to others in the name of Christ
Jordan you give meaning, hope and wisdom to people who need it .
Thank you.
You’re a blessing to this world
✝️💛
He gets too religious, he loses me on this "god" stuff. I just get angry when people speak of this "god" entity. What do they see that I can't? What am I excluded from that I can't find? I don't think this "god" exists!!!! It's juts a lie people tell themselves to cope with the knowledge of their own mortality. "God" is just a cope.
"God" is fiction.
I hope the appropriate time to have Jamie Wheal back on the podcast is sooner rather than later. Great episode :D
Dearest Dr. Peterson, you spoke very well indeed at the event yesterday. I can’t tell you how happy it made me to see you completely surrounded by people who love you, getting all the hugs, and getting to speak and to listen, all the while looking so well and so healthy. It looked like your day did you all the good in the world, just as I prayed that it might. You needed that.
I was so moved to see you praying the Lord’s Prayer with Russel because the last time I saw you pray that it was in a prayerful video you made when you were so desperately ill, and your face a mask of suffering, but your spirit shining through the brokenness of your body. And now you are well again, thank God again and again for it.
It was a blessed Michaelmas. I did my bit at home to rescue the republic. I brought my kids to church. I took them for a long autumnal walk and we picked flowers and berries and threw rocks in the river. I snuggled them and read to them from their children’s Bible. I made a big pot of chicken soup from scratch to feed them homemade food. And I watched the live stream event all day. I would have liked yo be with you all in person but for now, I was content to be with you in spirit.
With Ruth Anne’s love
The Lord's way is not our (fallen) Way. God being dead is one of the most Sacrilegious things to be ever uttered.
@@JuanCarlosNunez-gu4yzperhaps you should take a break from the comment section, listen, and learn something. And then you won’t be stupid anymore.’
lol, I saw your post on Bret Weinstein's stream. You're an awesome mom!
afringedgentian5426 I always enjoy reading your comments!
@afringedgentian5426 Stupid; you say! Thank you for your (insignificant) response. The true (Word of God) reaches all understanding. And we shall all bow our knee to HIM!
Show me a more engaging public intellectual than Jamie wheal. Love him
This quite literally may be one of the most important discussions I have ever witnessed in the entirety of my life thus far!! Just incredible absolutely incredible
I hope the conversation becomes debate, and eventual resolution that reality does not belong to us 😊
One of the best back and forth eye to eye conversations, I hear thus far on Dr. Petersons Podcast.
Lots of active listening on both sides, and that the guest ask clarifying questions of Dr. Peterson was great.
At times it was hard to tell who‘s podcast it was 😀👍 Fantastic.
Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave.
G.K. Chesterton
JP needs to diversify his view point. It is just 5 pages of stuff just regurgitated in every conversation.
That's upside down and backwards. Christianity has destroyed people ang groups all over the world, most notably the Jews whom it spent 1600 years trying to eliminate. But the Jews have risen again.
@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 to some degree, yes. But he is also seeking to get more facets of the story extracted from other people. And 5 pages is not enough for this story 🙂
@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 the first conversations Peterson does with someone usually are that way. Around an hour fifteen in , the fishing talk was about all I noticed new to him. People like Vervaeke or Pageau who he’s had a few talks with is when the new stuff usually comes out.
Chesterton never disappoints 🙏
Iraqi Christian in Australia, 35 years. Love the reference to the Eluma Ilish Mesopotamian story that Jordan coincides with the birth of Genesis - generally a symbiotic but often a predatory concurrent growth, 11:20
Proud of the contribution of my forebears on civilisational development even though it's not evident much now with the Islamic takeover of the Middle East.
Thanks again 👍🏼
Love the Assyrian people!!❤
@@r.m5883❤️❤️
My dude Jamie! Glad to see you guys talking. Now just need to get Daniel Schmachtenberger on, too
This. Right. Here.
That right there
Haha ohhh yeah !! That guy is really smart to. I love listening to these men
Thought this was one of the least interesting interviews he’s done in awhile
Absolutely!
Only five minutes in and I already have a flood of thoughts. First of all, the title of Jamie’s book makes me smile. It is in reference to the “wise thrush” in Robert Browning’s poem “Home Thoughts From Abroad:” “Lest you think he never can recapture that first, fine, careless rapture!”
And then with regard to the death of God, I do think we moderns don’t realize the extent to which the Great War broke humanity, as a whole. It was the first mechanized war. Through my study of some of the literature of the time period… and I’m not an expert but I studied with professors who were… I saw the societal and spiritual breakdown of our collective psyche, and I don’t think humanity has ever really recovered. Thus, “the death of God” because it seemed there was no sense to be made of such mass catastrophe.
And then when I think of Zarathustra lamenting the death of God, his entire monologue a shriek of centuries of anguish, I think of the two on the road to Emmaus, who were weeping and lamenting the death of God, but God was walking right beside them in the person of Our Lord. And I think that the same applies today. God walks with us even when our eyes are holden and we do not know.
I was reading Robert Frost’s autumnal poem “In Hardwood Groves” to my kids, and I was struck by the thought that the rhythms and patterns of nature are a way to understand the cycles of human history. And so “the death of God” could be the death of the leaves that “must go down past things coming up”. And that is the only way for Resurrection and a new season to come. “However it is in some other world, I know it is this way in ours.”
With Ruth Anne’s love
Great observations, thank you for sharing
@@mactireliath2356 thank you for reading.
Thank you for making this comment. I resonate with the road to Emmaus story. Every time when I think or feel God is not with me or things are not going well, He always shows how He is with me in away I can’t deny. But I never relate Emmaus road story with the Western ( I am not western) idea of “God is dead”, “we are not religious anymore “….even though I believe the West will be Christianised again.
@@visible177your comment blessed my heart. Thank you for reading.
I suppose every generation has it's own version of faith that is adapted to the emotional landscape of their period. Maybe it is up to us Zoomers to return to Christianity, or succumb to something else, that's our choice to make and it depends on our level of desperation and sobriety. I myself believe wholeheartedly in the value of Christianity but have no regular embodied practice because my life has stayed in its busy secular mode. If some natural disaster hit my area, or if my heart were unreconcilably broken I would definitely rely on a stronger faith to get me out of there.
summary of jordan's philosophy:
1. the spirit of adventure
2. the optimal game of maximum participation and maximum duration.
3. an implicit moral order is in the optimal game.
to learn more read his upcoming book "the spirit of adventure and the infinite game"
just roughhousing
That's a great title.
a bit simplistic, but we can start a conversation with that :-)
Haha this was awesome
That's absolutely marvellous. @JordanBPeterson please add that in somewhere 😂
@@namelessbroadcaster
My sense of this ‘implicit moral order’ is that it is not fixed in place. By its nature, as a reflection of our own, it cannot be immutable. It has to evolve slowly, and be held up with equanimity at the same time. That requires great strength, both explicit and implicit. The failure to do so might appear to be a moral failure, but is at its essence a collective failure of will. The spirit necessary to continue to turn that great wheel.
I've read recapture the rapture. It was amazing. I want to listen to Jamie wheel! We already know what Jordan knows and feels. Jamie is one of the few secular voices that is trying to engage spirituality without falling back on monotheisms, such a potentially fertile ground of inquiry, and Jordan just sprinkles weed killer over all of it with his insistence of being the main voice in this discussion. Opposite of what he says around 54:35, probably due to guilty conscience 😅
Yeah, that’s pretty much my main criticism of this podcast is that I leave it feeling like I don’t know enough about what Jamie is all about.
Which is the opposite of how one should feel about an interviewee after an interview.
When he said, why impose ten commandments now, why not just impose the sermon on the mount, I don't want to go and watch any of his other so called lectures. You know what to expect.
The LIGHT that this conversation sheds at this very late hour is profound. I would love to listen to Jordan's exposition on the relationship between true LIGHT, LIFE, and LOVE.
Thoroughly enjoyed this whole conversation and have quite a few more books that have been added to my book list!
My biggest take away is a reminder to have faith that life is fundamentally good and that good cannot be reduced to your emotional state within this hedonic realm, because beneficial things can be painful and harmful things can feel pleasurable.
He is such an intelligent and interesting person to listen to.
Thank you Jordan! Your powerful insight at Rescue the Republic rally nailed it!!!
Sacrifice=the strait and narrow way to LIFE
Power=the wide gate and broad Way to destruction
Matthew 7:13-14, Luke 13:24👏👏👏
Dr. Peterson, I’ve been a long time listener of you. I’ve posted many comments reaching out. How does someone who’s not socially high up have a conversation with you. I don’t ask for a lot in this life, and it would be a blessing the be able to talk. I’ve been on a crazy path of self discovery and growth. I also grew up without a father figure and believe that’s why I gravitate towards you as an ideal. Anyways I know this is another long shot, but worth it. Have a great day Jordan!
You probably won't get audience with him, but perhaps you could ask questions in these comments sections that might bring you closer to the things you are seeking. I would suggest that it has nothing to do with social standing and everything to do with what you are able to offer. If you ask interesting questions, you would be offering him, and anybody who reads these comments, something that could be considered "food for thought", that he might speak to in some way. Don't feel bad, because there are probably hundreds of people with standing, with money, with education etc, that would love to speak with him too. And thousands of people who would love to have a few private counselling sessions with him. I suspect that if you read his books and sit and write a real letter to him, you would do much better than tossing off a quick comment. Good luck in your healing journey!
Dr. Peterson reads and responds to comments. If he hasn’t responded to yours, then I’m afraid you have your answer. You don’t. I’m sorry it isn’t the one you wanted.
Very best luck.
I appreciate Dr Wheal having this conversation. While I don't agree with everything he claims, I was able to learn a lot about centre-leftist psychological thought through what he had to say.
I played this podcast before I slept. Thinking it would help soothe me to sleep while tiring my mind. It did the opposite. Bloody great video.
God never dies it's people's faith that dies, but there's always a resurrection.
"god" is a nonsense word that nobody can define.
The value of every religion is in the esoteric, the exoteric also known as the profane was the religion for the ignorant masses
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@peterbelanger4094 Your faith will return too when you grow up. God will be waiting 🙏
@@FraterL The value of religion is that it brings you closer to God, but your own personal relationship with Him is most important.
Jordan has 100% been shadow banned/limited exposure because the views have plummeted, yet the content has never been better.
As always a brilliant discussion that has left me thinking.
Thank you Dr. Peterson.
Agree with you. The comments board was also very messed up for the first 12 hours. Comments and replies were disappearing in real time, and many were obviously trolls and spammers. There were only 250 comments in 12 hours, and one commenter told me that he could only see my reply through his notifications, but that he couldn't respond to me until nearly 24 hours later. It was really messed up. Fewer than 20% of the comments were really relevant, almost as though the algo bots were deleting the good comments and leaving the rotten ones behind. Even though I've been subbed for about 7 years, without notifications turned on, he never appears in my feed. With them turned on, he appears in my feed, but I never get notifications...And then there was the day that he didn't come up in the search at all...
@@muskratdove that's not jordan being shadow banned, that's jordan's viewers being shadowbanned.
I know I'm shadowbanned by youtube because western leftists will report anyone who doesn't conform to their ideology and when the reports pile up, youtube will automatically flag your account regardless of whether the reports are legit or not.
honestly jordan's content has really deteriorated. It's also really bothering me that he's starting businesses left and right with his daughter, and then with his son... it removes power from what he says and lends strength to the wokies calling him a "grifter".
Plus constantly trying to shoehorn in god/religion in places where it's incredibly forced is frustrating, because to a rational person, the moment you invoke god in your argument, it kind of loses all its power. Despite the fact that the ideas are really great.
@@ysf-d9i well, I totally disagree with your perspective, I really enjoy the content and I am a regular listener. However in saying that, I’m not suggesting your opinion has no merit; just that I don’t share those opinions.
I do have a query and a kind of case to make about your being bothered by him ‘setting up businesses with his children’. My brother has 5 kids and I am starting my own family at the moment. He and i own a pretty successful business together. Since becoming successful enough to have time to look around and think, rather than just ‘doing the work. We have found ourselves brainstorming regularly what businesses we could help the kids create going forward and as we become more successful it’s happening more and more. It seems that (Atleast for us) all we can do when we think long term is project ideas towards his kids (and hopefully soon to be my kids as well). We we are by no means as successful as Jordan, but how else better to continue the family progression and cumulative work than through the willing participation of your children? It’s very easy for us to see that the kids have interests and values that lend themselves to certain environments/businesses and us as parents may be able to share some helpful insight as they move forward (we hope). Because the wolves of the world often eat the young whole without help from their parents.
Jordan is extremely intelligent, and entrepreneurial, so his advice from a business standpoint would be invaluable to anyone, especially his own children who he can help on a personal and more regular basis, with the added motivation of wanting nothing but the best for them. I wish I could get my kids to have discussions about their future with him, that’s for sure. But sadly my and my brothers kids have and will have us 😂😂, just trying our best).
So in conclusion me and my brother are by no means grifters, we are grafters through and through. But I just don’t see how wanting a strong/‘good’ future for your kids, and helping them to create it is a ‘grift’? I can only summise that these people/‘wokies’ calling it a grift, have no children and simply do not understand what it means to have kids and want what is best for them because most ‘wokies’ are immature and self obsessed with a short term view of reality (in my experience with those types). So I think k Jordan simply doesn’t care what the wokies think, I know I absolutely couldn’t give any less of a shit myself 😂.
On the ‘shoe horn in god’ side of things, I believe we are currently in a bit of a societal crisis. And when talking about it, it’s hard not to mention the bible/god, as for thousands of years, that is what held the fabric together as far as I can see, or Atleast in the Old Testament suggested ways to structure society very strongly. When he’s not discussing these things (which isn’t often because it absolutely is his field of expertise). It is barely mentioned, the most recent video posted about string theory… I don’t think mentions god once. Because it’s not relevant in a way he can apply his knowledge. But it’s nothing new for Jordan to be talking about god. Check out his first series about the bible stories on youtube (which he made at his own cost with no idea how popular they would be). But after they performed better than any of her form of religious content on the internet by a wide margin, he would be stupid not to have followed that up as it clearly resonated with millions of people, me being one of them.
Well mate, I hope to continue our discussion, but my time in the waiting room is coming to an end 😂. Lots of love and GOD bless brother, may you bring success for your children as Jordan and I have, and not have people call your a grifter for doing so, when you do ;)!
❤️
lol imagine believing this
I really dig Jamie Wheal and enjoyed all his books. Interesting to see you two talk.
Finally it happened, not even my whining uterus will stop me from watching this tonight. 2 highly, highly intelligent people, getting at it ... What a time to be alive 😍🤩🎉
50:00 - If you had a desire for power, decision making revolving around it would leave wreckage, due to the lack of empathy mentioned above. So if a person always wants to leave you in a wreckage, rats showed that on unfair playing grounds (lost more then 33 percent of the time), makes the behavior not "playful" and the rats stopped playing. Showing that with free will, if your will imposes on others, they won't want to be apart of your reality.
55:00 - Jordan is talking about when people are accepting of others, they worked together and progressed faster. Also how much more significance people find in decisions when found together then by yourself.
58:00 - If you were to love your enemy and be okay with at least hearing their view would give you insight to the polar opposite opinion, if they were playing by the same set of variables.
1:00:00 - Talking about dark triad traits are 5 percent of this representation of people, that have amplified strength through social media platforms and being anonymity. Opens a portal of mass communication through these cracks of society and these negative behaviors. Which is manipulating behaviors, of people who wouldn't normally exude these traits normally.
1:04:00 - Jordan faces the opposite critic that is trying to impose that religion can be confining and also be taken over by these evil traits (which has happened in history). People can relate and push a narrative of these negative behaviors on religions due the opposite contrasts. He also talks about people with lower agreeable personality traits (woman tend to be higher on agreeableness), makes them very exposed to tactics used by dark personalities. It's becoming a massive problem for society due to the learnt traumas being formed on these people, due to the parasitic nature of the behaviors.
1:07:20 - With everyone having a flat playing field where no strengths are highlighted, in society, it can be viewed as offensive to call out "evil" behavior (irony), due sensitivity reasons. (ooooooooo). This creates a messy society that allows criminals to create mass confusion where it's impossible to be held accountable. Since you can't also call it out, how can anyone doing something bad be stopped.
1:10:00 - Also when you don't get stopped in your tracks when you are down a path of temptation, YOU WON'T STOP YOURSELF. (Tea boiling) People usually regulate to good behavior because it has a natural path of lighting others up and creating a positive sense of meaning derived from the reinforcements of expression that others project to you.
1:13:00 - Even though there can be competitive grounds with others, a part of the game is being able to win and lose. It's that playful aspect that makes the game itself attractable. But the game can be ruined when people involve manipulative pseudo behaviors to the game, that grow advantages and then the person justifies a obvious 1 sided game. (DAAAAMMMM). When people find out of manipulative tactics, they will lock onto it very fast and will hold you to that behavior.
1:16:20 - Talking about how in society there are people who bring superior analytical information to the world which is over saturated. Then if someone who comes forward with superior spiritual information should not be taken out. Jordan goes on how its necessary that both of these figures rise to balance each other out. You constantly need this balance and tilt behaviors in either direction when it tips to far on one side.
1:19:00 - Talking in societal decisions, when to take the direction to the other side when things become unbalanced. But now in corporate, CEO to Worker was 30:1 and is now 300:1 pay ratios (10 x uptick, when is it changing). Ideologies also becoming very out of touch and blown to much into direction. one?
1:20:40 - How should these ideologies be approached and when things become to in favor of one side? It's a problem if accumulation of goods becomes more and more scarce and 1 sided. Once you get wealth, that doesn't necessarily means that the person did good things to get that money and knows what to do with that money.
1:23:00 - Jordan getting spicy about how small scale experiments had too much impact on large scale models. And to have a model that accounts for all problems to be well thought out for long term consequence. It's very important to have polarizing approaches to any situation because you should not make policy on biased side of the equation.
1:25:40 - Psychological stability/growth and associated interactions that emerge from those principles should be taken with decision making. Even if you don't necessarily have a inclination to help others, it goes along the lines "treat others how you want to be treated".
1:27:45 - Talking about how greed can absolutely destroy you as a human. If you do not contain the separation of wealth/greed, there is always a price to pay for the source of that perceived wealth (nothing comes free in life, think about the consequences).
1:29:30 - Talking about if you find sanctity in a ideology that ultimately holds you accountable to be noble and good, Jordan can relate to those principles to that as a Christian. Some ideologies only talk about one side of a polarization and if the ideology at least outlines a positive, you don't necessarily have a complete understanding of all the evil.
1:32:50 - If you were to follow more of a intellectual ideology, at least you have to understand that a person who just seeking/projecting painful/negative outcomes, then its important to call them out on that.... (TRUEEEEEEE) Also going on the opposite spectrum if you were to support positive behaviors that hold people to a better standard of living then it brings you in alignment to the same beliefs as a religion.
It doesn't matter how many times intellectuals sliced reality, God's finger prints bleeds through.
What if I don’t want to slice reality. No blood just r e a l i t y
What "finger prints", you speak nonsense. Who/what is this "god" thing you speak of? A silly fantasy?
😂 yea we all know where religion people slide their fingers …… guess god taught them 😂😂😂😂
@peterbelanger4094 If you were as intelligent as Peterson or Dawkins, that would be a lovely conversation to have with you. Unfortunately your question shows you don't have the sophistication to navigate those topics.
@@peterbelanger4094 Believe it or not Woke and DEI are a finger print of God. The problem is they deny God and his set laws and as a result make his finger print their god. And any time you raise only a fraction of truth to the ultimate truth you get a hell like existence.
This conversation has sparked my eagerness, knowing that Jordan is now just one step away from interviewing Daniel Schmachtenberger. It will be one to behold.
Definantly.. through god I released addictions, thankyou Jordan I love this discussion for humanity!!
This conversation is elevated by them both being in the same room.
Peterson is really intelligent if he read and mentioned for the past minutes, Mircea Eliade, a romanian writer and historian that has the most complex explanations for the human spirituality❤ amazing. thank you
He has studied eliade in depth. If you read maps of meaning, he quotes the fuck out of him
Brilliant opportunity to share your experience with another intellectual, drawing out the conversation and the truths underlying thank you
Good morning Jordan and Jamie
Exactly all of this.
Resonates a whole lot with me and my continued challenges of old and indeed bloody brand new. A wee bit unbelievable to me how many situations seem to be repeating both within the micro and macro levels of chaos right now. However strangely grateful for it regardless of its crazy repeating situations. In short.
God knows I require a new mountain to not be pushed to jump from but to perhaps leap from and towards.
After finally leaving my previous nursing post and starting a new nursing role only four weeks ago. I know this new challenge is not for me and sadly a bit of a waste of my time and energy. Soul destroying in all honesty.
Anyways truly grateful for your again shared conversation.
Sanity sensemaking brain gym, indeed.
Thank you.
💜
Can't help thinking this is a discussion about someone they both heard of but have never met. Faith is a gift- Jesus is a person. Many people could describe your parents- but you know your parents in a way none of their descriptions could comprehend.
😂
I prayed to take the sins of this dark world as my own, low and behold it was so powerful and heart felt that it brought Christ back to life. God is good and he saw I was good.
58:34 Good on you, Jamie Wheal, for trying to call Peterson out on how he’s allowing himself to be used by bad actors, and for offering a suggestion of how he could do better. Too bad Peterson wasn’t brave enough to engage you on those statements, but I know he heard them and will be thinking about it. Hopefully he will eventually take your advice. 😊
Another militant atheist expressing the belief that it is all a game and you must persuade people to play the game you want them to play because you are a game master, and your whims are morality, and you are not a real believer. Peterson is sawing his own legs off. People thought he was a bridge from evolutionary psychology to Christianity and he's a black propaganda pusher from evolution dogmatists to Christians. The god of real believers is not a metaphor in their imagination. It is a placeholder for the creator of the universe and too big for their imaginations. They are playing the wrong game and slowly undoing their own progress. Peterson is slowing building his box of irrelevance to place himself in. He is declaring that God is the imagination instead of understanding that God is the great architect of the universe. The recent issues, including this one at 58:34 reveals that he is directly playing a game of feeding people what he believes is a metaphor for purposes of controlling their behavior. What he and this guy fail to realize, is that the people they hate have just as much moral validity as they do if they are right about morality not having a divine origin in the first place. He is now a 'right makes right' preacher. He is a completely different teacher now than he used to be, probably because he is now paid for by Zionists at the daily wire. He of course wants me unmasked here, so his Jewish handlers could make sure I never worked again and had to live in a cardboard box for this insolence. Peterson has turned, genuinely turned.
Agree! “Can we try that?” was a brilliant opener to a beautiful invitation. He set it up with the vision of the crowd and Peterson’s influence with a subtle constructive criticism then calls him out with a direct ask to step up his infinite game. It was beautiful to watch and quite disappointing to see Peterson drop the ball. Maybe he has a blind spot?
Spiriual Optimism and building Promising Philosophy!! Good show 👍 Jordan Peterson x Jamie Wheal
Very raw and intelligent conversation.
I think another perspective is too see the individual in terms of impacting issues upon them and how this wall drives behaviour depending on your status of health and age. Forming a determinism in individualised living that needs reliefs for sustaining to get a continuum, rather than ad hoc effects upon the living society.
Just now realized JPs suit coat has “CLEAN YOUR ROOM” printed all over it🤓
i never noticed it, until this comment. you are right!
Interesting conversation, thank you gentlemen. Wishing you all the best Mr Wheal.
Fantastic, this popped up in my "shorts!" Can't wait to hear this.
God does not need a rebirth. We do.
I've come to understand God as the universe itself without being limited by that. God is reality and truth while also being the fundamental order those things are built upon.
You just want to reappropriate Christianity without having any genuine faith. That's not going to revive people's spirit. We already have that, all of that Christ-consciousness BS, New Age spirituality with a Christian theme, progressive churches, etc. It's not doing anyone any good. We need ACTUAL religion. Actual spirituality. Like, the kind that is all in your face when you walk into a Catholic or Orthodox church or a worship service in an Anglican cathedral or in a traditional Reformed Presbyterian church. Hierarchy, humility, tradition, order, self-denial. That's what we need in this time of moral relativism, selfishness, hedonism and rejection of order in favor of chaos and unlimited freedom.
What beautiful conversations!
27:20 I LOVE YOU Dr. Jordan Peterson ❤
this is great. two brilliant people talking and discussing great topics.Please more of this soon!
I've long wanted to see Jamie Wheal in a conversation with you since watching his videos on Rebel Wisdom.
" - There's no free lunch, even if you are rich."
Loved that!
Outstanding back and forth discussion
What a brilliant man God has blessed the humanity with!!! Thank you God. Thank you Jordan Peterson.
Guest’s first utterance is 6:33 minutes in. So great
Thanks! Jordan, You have made as big of a positive difference in my life as anyone has, other than my two sons. Maybe one day we can actually sit down and enjoy coffee together.😀
Wheal did his best to get Peterson to admit at least partial responsibility for the far right crazies, a favorite tactic of the elite left. Jordan parried him with ease. Jordan's vocabulary has moved to a new level, now combining rigorous, cutting edge scholarship in his field with an ever deeper understanding of the wisdom of the ages. He's the most articulate intellectual in public life today. Wheal talks like an upper class technocrat speaking to members in an ESG corporate boardroom with Klaus Schwab at the head of the table.
😅
"Jordan parried him with ease." xD
I appreciate both JBP and Jamie Wheal, I listened to both for many many years, thanks to that old channel Rebel Wisdom that isn't active anymore unfortunately. They're both geniuses. It's true that Wheal is more centrist and sceptical of the right. I think that's good. It's great that the two could talk freely about this impass, especially considering the Daily Wire itself is explicitly right wing, that shows that the right is way ahead of the left in terms of allowing conversation.
I think this criticism of JBP is absolutely valid.
I agree. Wheal sounded quite elite leftist
Came here to say exactly this. It started around the 1:00:00 mark, where he is trying to steer the conversation and setup Dr. Peterson, then the “risk” he’d “like to take,” is trying to corner Peterson into admitting that he has something to do with intellectually dishonest people, while he himself is being one. The hypocrisy is palpable. So is his arrogance throughout the entire conversation.
Keep trying left. You have a long way to go to get out of your own arrogance and back to intellectual honesty. Maybe try admitting God exists, and go strike up a conversation with Him. Let Him put you back in your rightful place.
If a government official asks your company to comply with something that is immoral and unconstitutional, then by all means, you should 100% NOT COMPLY.
The real problem is that most people don't understand what is and isn't immoral and unconstitutional.
That's because in atheism, nothing is immoral, and atheist dogma is now called science. A mere few months ago he was debating atheist and affirming a physically empty tomb. Now he's cast his lot in a large cabal of them for a job as game master or something.
Shibboleth ❤ adding new language to life is a beautiful thing. Thanks for sharing!
Church; People uniting for and in the highest level of existence; Jesus!
Great to see Jamie on the pod. 14:39
Beautiful discussion! Thank you 🤍
I'm just happy to be here man, why is that not enough?
Thank you Dr Peterson for another excellent video. 😊
Lovely convo - Jamie brought out some great questions that I resonated with
The best conversation you had in a while jordan
My awakening happened 3 years ago🎉
I am not yet, convinced that understanding immutable characteristic of the universe can be directly tethered to the creation of a good social contract
Enjoying listening to you ❤
This is Dr. Peterson's denouement, the clash of the Titans. Brilliant.
I think this interview shows Peterson at his best.
When Jordan describes the effect of anonymity, I can't help but think the proliferation of masks into society during the pandemic must have, by definition, exacerbated this negative quality.
I read this in Jordan’s voice 😂
I can't wait for your new book!!!
Can't wait for the new book!
I really like "watching" Jamie talk
At last, a worthy opponent to Jordan’s hand language.
I love that JP quotes and brings up Mircea Eliade, brilliant man.
Always have Faith in the Creator...
But both Abraham and Moses did not want to do this alone (go out) Abraham chose Lot and Moses got Aaron because of their reluctance to do the thing required alone. I think God chose them because they were not control freaks trying to take over the world. They were humble in His hands. And look at what is ruling or trying to rule us now. God said he would give us the leaders we deserve - time for repentance I think.
I love you Socrates
Thank u dr. Peterson ❤❤❤❤
God is already here, you just haven't been looking for him
The more I have look and tried to find this mythical entity, the more it has eluded me. I don't think this "god" character actually exists.
You people are delusional. There is no "god".
Enjoyed this discussion, going to check out his book Recapture the rapture.
God is not reborn.
God is Resurrected.
It's a marvelous echo of the arc of Christ.
As Christ was betrayed, crucified, & resurrected.
So too Rationality/Enlightenment principles betrayed & crucified the Logos that gave rise to it in the first place.
The reemergence and reintegration of those metanarrative structures is antidotal to so much that's going wrong today.
Thank you, Dr Peterson, for your contribution to that process.
The dichotomy that JP articulates at the outset leaves out entirely either the Vedic worldview of the universe as a dance or the Taoist one of flow - so free of the need to guilt trip oneself with which JP wrestles eternally, notwithstanding his hero Jung being so attuned to these ideas
Wow! Happy to have a listen 🎶
damn Jordan, you look younger every time I see you post a new video
It's crazy to think we were this 🤏🏼 close to losing Jordan back in 2019-2020
I know. I can’t think of it without shuddering and longing to give him an enormous hug.
The power of prayer must have been felt by him during that touch and go period. Soon after that Tammy openly speaking about how people's prayers pulled her back from the edge of death
Dr. Jordan Peterson, I want to extend my deep thanks to you for all the enlightening insights I have gained from you on multiple levels ; intellectually, spiritually, and existentially . I’d also like to extend a firm handshake in appreciation for your discerning and sharp insights during the encounter. I’d like to add a brief comment to your discussion, particularly regarding the concept mentioned around 44:17 in the episode.
Using the concept of Dabo Vahubo (দাবো বহুব in Bengali) to describe God’s creation might not fully align with the Islamic perspective. In Dabo Vahubo, the world is seen as a joyful, playful expression of the Divine, which can imply a lack of seriousness or purpose. However, from the Qur'anic perspective, the creation of the heavens and the earth is a serious, purposeful act, not merely a play or amusement:
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
"وما خلقنا السماء والأرض وما بينهما لاعبين"
In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
"And We did not create the heavens and the earth and what is between them in play."
(Surah Al-Anbiya, 21:16)
Additionally, based on Platonic philosophy, the term Dabo Vahubo is not appropriate for the Monad or the Transcendent, which represent ultimate seriousness and purpose beyond mere play..
With my deepest respect.
🙏
What we need is harmony. Not unity!
Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’'
- John 14:6 AMP
Wester civilization, USA and progress were build by old Christians and a few young atheist that lather got older and become the present day old Christians. A majority of atheists will create a Sheol on earth that wants the liberty of democracy on steroids, because even old demons want more liberal liberty after all more freedom more chances to do evil.
LOL, no, I'm not going to live by some cryptic words out of an old outdated BOOK. You people actually worship that BOOK, as if it were an idol. That BOOK sucks!!!! It's unreadble, it makes no sense and contradicts itself. One would go crazy hyper-analizing trying to find "messages from god"
@@peterbelanger4094 What do you mean "You people!"? Are you afraid of the free will of others? Should we all be your slaves thinking just like you mien Fuhrer?
@@peterbelanger4094You'll sooner go crazy trying to invent a map of life without any sort of foundation upon which to build your pathway forward. I think that approach lacks both foresight and insight, both of which you can take from ancient wisdom, whether you believe the literal stories or accept them as allegorical.
Adding words that weren't included in the original transcription obscures the point, it doesn't expand upon it. Our sociological contexts ought not be imposed upon the writings of ancient cultures, rather we ought to learn about the culture. The clarity comes with the context.
this format really suits me
This is a great conversation and I can not digest this at 1 am and two Georgian cokes. Save )
At around an hour into this what I realized about Wheal, the thing that, however intelligent and serviceably affable he is, all the same instinctively repels me is: he's a snob. He is burdened with an intrinsic, pervasive snobbery, a need to prove who he's superior to, that permeates everyting he says with a sourness, that instantly triggers my antipathy and desire to be nowhere near him. It's like that feeling you get from a person who grins at you with a clownlike exaggerated toothy smile but... there's zero smile in the eyes, even worse, you sense some hidden purpose in that gaze. That's the feeling he gives me.
Gotta remember that sometimes a smile hides the pain and grief a person has inside of them.
Well, he is not that bad but I do think he is a misguided leftist
@@JohnSorrows Sure, of course, and sometimes it hides an agenda. You're stating the absurdly obvious but not intrinsically relevant.
@@kensears5099 good thing you can read minds to know what someone's intention truly are.
@@JohnSorrows I shared an impression, too bad it annoys you so much. I see why you have your name. Cheer up, John.
I am taking notes.✍
To me, God's command not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which results in the fall of mankind, means that - to enter the kingdom - we have to return to a state in which we recognize that there is no force called "evil," but only opportunities to learn through "hardship" or obstacles. So, to become like a child, an innocent, means to do away with the notion of evil and recognize that everything in creation is perfect and we, humanity, just has to surrender to the divine, understand that we are of God and then fear falls away
God has not died.
Or if He has, He's been resurrected.
"god" is not even a word that can be defined. I have no idea what people are talking about when they speak it. Some fantasy? Get real children, there is no "god".
There is no death in an absolute sense....only a spiritual transition..just as men don't literally die..there spiritual changes address😊
Totally right
I do appreciate Peterson viewing the christian worldview through the lens of psychology. To me, it always seems he views God through the ontologcal premise of being a maximally great being and that He is more of a goal rather than a friend.
I always think of the what C.S. Lewis said on morality and I'm paraphrasing here. Morality isn't a quest for individual enlightenment it is instructions for all of humanity. What good does it do to point out a ship is sinking when there are those not in formation with the rest? What good does it do to say an instrument is out of tune when there are some not in harmony with the rest? While those are deep questions on there own. The bigger questions are where are we sailing to? And who are we playing for?
"To me, it always seems he views God through the ontologcal premise of being a maximally great being ". That is false. He believes god is a construct of his listener's imagination and that prayers are answered by something akin to perception alignments, etc.. That came out in his show with Heather and Brett. I am talking about this on UA-cam as much as possible because I spent years listening to him and even debating the merits of stuff against people like Vox Day, and he undid half of his previous character statements. Now he's transitioning to some kind of Atheist Game Master and doing things talking circuits with others about the "game", because they are building entire events and plans where they will be running this game on people without those people knowing they mean their own imagination instead of "El Elyon" or "Allah" who are the creators of the universe and not some imaginary friend or psychological principal that answers prayers via self-talk. I wish I had spent those years listening to "Intelligence for your Life" with John Tesh and Gib Gerard instead. I feel like I was conned. The books and lectures helped me greatly in a time of despair and the American job market, and I will never forget that, but a real Christian would be doing himself and others a real disservice if they let the "game master" peaching god-as-your-imagination doctrine go unrevealed.
Cyndi Dale. I think Jordan could interview her. I’m working in her home. Reading one of her books. She’s the real deal.
This guy is like Jordan Peterson from another universe. Slightly younger but knows how the future might be.
Hi Jordan, Looking forward to a long form interview with Francesca Geno. I hope with you soon.
I was atheist. One day (March 1995) I say to myself "There's a waste of time to think about God that doesn't exist. We must explain what exists".
The next day I became a believer.
The universe exists, life exists. What is the goal of life?
Ask the first microbe in the universe and you will find the answer. The goal of life is TO BE. The only way to reach the goal is to overcome all the dangers in the universe, the goal is an Almighty being ruling over the universe.
Atheism means to give up, atheism means to be against life.
Revelation 1:8 explains the goal of life.
Nuh-uh, more like I choose my freedom and right to non-existence rather than look to a concept that the human brain (in our finite wisdom) manifested just because we try to appoint meaning to everything, even when there is none. Ridiculous and I'm completely here for it. Even if there DOES exist a god in the way you zealots imagine, it's not a god who gives a f about you, IT'd be more akin to a force of nature. Which funnily enough, MAKES ACTUAL SENSE- rather than going through your life based off a "promise" (LOL) of INFINITE life when you can't even begin to comprehend the actual distances in time and space, let alone trying to say what will you be doing next week.
this makes no sense.
Plus, how do you know the bible is right as opposed to the quran or the buddhist scriptures or the hindu scriptures etc etc etc?
@@aheenobarbushenocied9880 you don't really have freedom though. You're just following whatever urges your neural networks developed through evolution + environmental training from childhood.
for example, I know a guy who, even in the winter when it's -10 degrees and snowing, goes out to smoke every break. That's freedom? No, he's enslaved by his dopaminergic loop of addiction. He doesn't have the freedom to choose not to do it.
@@aheenobarbushenocied9880
There is no "Right to not existing". In the same way no one asks your opinion to be here on the planet your existence depends only on the desire of the last step of the evolution's chain.
.
The sooner you stop being a child and become an adult human being the better for you
.
Are you in favor or against life?
@@georgewdc490 A zealot is always an angry zealot. If that's what your "faith" nets you, I will keep me and mine far away from that. Stay mad lil bro