A lot of people aren't happy that i didnt use the exact dictionary example of overextend, the reason i didnt is because the word "extend" has NO USE at all in gaming. its not a known term so i use the words "pushing the advantage" to help people understand a lot easier the fine line between it being a good and bad thing. I think the video is a lot easier to follow because of this and that's what matters when trying to give advice :) Thanks for watching and i hope you guys enjoyed! -w
Your Overwatch Hey Guys, dropped a comment on another video and you didn't notice so I thought I'd drop it here. I'm in the process of writing an overwatch article (probably just for Reddit) about lessons I've learned climbing in Solo queue and how I feel they could help people who are struggling. I was just wondering if you guys could get in touch, if you like, to maybe just pick your brains and maybe through some ideas in. Would be greatly appreciated. Cheers guys. Battle.net - Straydog191
Can you guys's make a video on the support burden? Supports are labeled as the easiest classes to play, and people will even flex support but sometimes I just feel like they don't do it right. When I play support, the first person to die is me, more often than not. Whether it's because my positioning is bad because I have to back up someone else with bad position or even because I just choose it myself, or whether it's because they have a good Genji on the enemy team or that Reaper who flanks every fight who nobody picks up on. I rarely find it hard to keep teammates who are together and properly positioned alive, especially in a dual support line-up (a lot of solo ana+symmetra lately), as long as I'm alive. Anyways, I played mostly support season 1 and half of season 2 and to be frank, I'm kind of tired of it. So I started improving my aim (I played ana and was already working on it) and started playing more DPS characters. Now the thing I notice is that when I play DPS, if we are winning it's almost seemless and I can just shoot things and they die and the team cheers and we wipe them. But then there are games where I have absolutely NO SPACE. There is a pharah in the sky and they say "we have a mccree but he won't shoot the pharah" and it's like I'm shooting her to 20% after about 3-6 seconds of me seeing her and she drops to the ground. Either that or she lands 2 rockets (direct hit+splash or what have you) and I'm critical and have to fall back. When your team pressures you as a DPS player and they don't give you healing until you ask for it, it's just too hard. I mean if I want to extend a bit and do some damage I'm basically on my own until I ask for healing, like I have to win the fight first, survive it, and only THEN do I deserve healing, or at least that's how I feel sometimes. If I'm a dps player I should be able to get heals without having to ask, and thats why I wish you guys would make a video on that. Sure every once and a while is fine, Healers are human too. I started to find a lot of people who get annoyed when you spam the 'x' key ("I need healing") and I tell them, it's just solo queue habits. I personally don't mind at all when someone hits it and typically when I'm heals, they are getting it before the line even comes out. But sometimes they don't and if I need my attention drawn toward them then that's fine and dandy. Too many Reapers in solo queue would rather wraith form to the nearest 75 health pack (usually on the enemy side of the battle due to their terrible flank) when low instead of coming back to me the healer and on the other hand I've had many games where I'm the first to die from poke damage behind a rein shield with a healer right next to me. I know it's my fault for not paying attention to my own health a lot of the times, but I just feel it's not hard to keep everyone topped off from poke damage in those type of fights (note this is usually with Ana/Zen combos). Anyways, I don't know HOW much you guys read comments, but yeah, here you go. TL;DR we need a Video to tell people that when you flex support there is more to it than healing the tanks. You need to keep dps topped off, but you should also be able to help them win the fights that they may want to take.
Sometimes when I chase kills as Lucio I get my kill he has the speed to catch up but the gun is too unreliable. I'm supposedly top 3% with crits and top 2% for overall accuracy with Lucio and even I feel like his gun is too unreliable :(
You guys should use Community Sent Clips and use them to set out either Good or Bad Examples just to connect alittle bit more with the Community it would be great!
In this Overwatch guide, we go through the concept of overextending, when it is bad but also how to implement this controversial tactic. Let us know your experiences of overextending in game and be sure to drop a Like & Subscribe if you enjoyed!
That's interesting, about taking extra ground on control. I'd say that often isn't the case on lower ranks. Oftentimes the deeper chokes on control points are too barren for my low-rank solo-queu teams to keep up with. They always end up overextended or chasing a kill to their spawn.
Your videos have been helping me out recently, got out of gold and climbed 350 SR in a day. Should hopefully get to diamond soon. Also, started playing a lot of Widowmaker lately due to your guide, encouraged me to try her. I'm enjoying her a lot and I've been doing good. You guys are truly an amazing channel. Keep it up guys!
What really sucks is the junkrat that ignores the fact that i, reinhardt, am waiting for the rest of the team and he decides to go to point on his own and dies immediately as a result
Good example of over-extending: when I was playing Attack-Symmetra on Hollywood once, the enemy team had a lot of trouble up until the final point, and ended up finally holding us back. Eventually, they managed to keep us away for a good 4 minutes or so, and had pushed us all the way up to our spawn. Because of this over-extension on their part, I, as Symmetra, managed to sneak around to the payload, jumped on it, and rode it to victory without anyone noticing.
Overextending is such a context sensitive term in so many games. Overwatch definitely has a big gray line at times but typically the numbers of teams help determine the front line location. Cheeky decoy tactics can work in some situations but tend to be more for against disorganized groups, situations that could be heavily capitalized on such as wiping healers, or games with multiple objectives to attack/defend.
pretty sure positive overextending isn't overextending. If my recipe says to cook a steak for 5 minutes and i cook it for 10 and it tastes better, the steak isn't overcooked, is it? please correct me tho if i am wrong.
Darren Fleming according to the recipe it is overcooked. It doesn't mean it's bad it just means that you Haven't followed the recipe and cooked it more ten the recipe said.
I find myself fighting in the back line with Tracer and Winston pretty often but the key thing I do is I try and get back to safe ground when I get challenged. If the entire enemy team is trying to kill me as tracer then I've already done my job and most of the time you don't even have to confirm a kill to make it happen you just need to stay alive and poke at the heroes that are trying to focus on doing their job and not you. That's when you make space for your team to get team wiping ults and take the objective easier. On point as always guys GJ
I have a good example of bad overextending in KoTH, because soloq has no rules really. it was the underground point of Nepal, my team just barely won the team fight, leaving me as Ana, a Zarya and a Winston alive. we capped the point, and the big guys thought it would be a good idea to go 3v6 at the enemy's main entrance... that defeat was the proof of the unlimited capability of stupidity in OW
This actually just happened to me yesterday where my team didnt understand the concept i was trying to convey. its a strategy i learned since gears 1, cod, halo. take the advantage if u know 1 of them is down it doesnt matter how far u go past the object (reasonably of course) that crucial 4v3 past the objective is the difference between 0% and 100%
And this video is a perfect example of why this channel is so much more useful than Unit Lost. So much valuable info presented not as gospel, but as suggestions with technical commentary involved.
i generally count numbers in certain situations to see if overextending is worth it. If we just won a team fight by killing 3 of the enemy team members and they are reeling back to regroup, its probably a good idea to push these last 3 to try confirm a staggered kill. of course if you are chasing 3 alone, then the numbers arent in favour to you. you need to be aware of where the enemy spawns and how much time you have to confirm the stagger kill before they get respawn backups. if you win a team fight with a dva bomb that wipes the enemy team, its probably a bad idea to overextend because the enemy is going to auto regroup by spawning in together.
I've definitely thought about overextending as a strategy, but normally, I don't. If somebody's pushed up too far, then maybe we take them out and confirm the kill if it's within reason. Most of the time, though, if my team will listen, I constantly tell them not to overextend. I feel like I know when it's a good time to do it, but it's more that I don't trust some of the randoms I play with, so I try to play it smart and safe if we can get away with it. Sometimes I do try, though, especially when being held at the choke as the attacking team, but only if I can be apart of the initiation. If I'm healing, and move with the push, then I have to trust my teammates, and one of the biggest issues, at least in lower rank solo queue, as that people don't know how to build proper comps. So, while it is very possible to do it, most of the team has chosen characters that can't properly initiate said push, and of course they won't switch because they think everything's fine, so you have to just bite your tongue and figure something else out.
I overextended once. It was the Cp map with the windmill. As Rein my shield just broke, their hog has been going on mad flanks and giving our healers some issue. So I charged him, I tried to pin him to the blue wall but missed and made it into the Health pack room. $ of their team turned away from the point and my team to deal with me. One Tank being a D.va I was smacking around before I got my charge up. I tried to charge a Genji off the cliff but got the Hog and had D.va out of her mech. We held the point and the hog stopped pulling mad flanks letting us win the game.
Could not agree more. So many times I tried to explain this idea mid game. Most of the time team would rather let the overextending team member die and wait for his respawn before trying again than trying to take advantage of the fight and maybe win it.
I solo queue in high silver. Sometimes you'll get people that are actualy kinda good and actualy communicate (a rare delicacy at this level) but if like 3 or 4 of us start going past a choke when we're on defense and we've wiped the enemy team someone will be like "Fall back, don't over extend." so we all return to the objective. But I usually question why not to just keep pushing them and making sure that they can't get to the point especially if there are fewer flank routes in this area. We're not COMPLETELY incompetent, we know when to fall back if we have to... I feel like this video kind of points that out... man I need a team...
Usually it's the Genji main & Soldier 76 that overextend but get wrecked in my experience. But your point on rushing with them into that mistimed push helps save the player 80% of the time.
I typically play a little more coy, and defensively, so whenever I have someone on my team trying to go off on a mad flank, I'm always so hesitant to bite the bullet and just stick with them. I know it's better to be bad players as a team, than to be a great player on your own, but it just confuses my core programming to purposefully make bad choices.
My friends and I love doing this on control point or as soon as we capture a point on payload maps (though not as far). Pushing the enemy back so that your objective gains points/moves for free is incredibly viable if they don't coordinate and group up. You literally can 100-0 games like this
One of my most proud of overextend was on Eichenwalde, was genji, the other team had just a mercy as a solo healer, i reflected a fire strike and killed her, walked back then realised i took out there only healer, dashed through the choke drew blade and took out 3 DPS well everyone else came behind me dealing with the tanks
Sometimes i over extend in overwatch mostly to see how the enemy reacts if they back off or they chase, those that chase are easy targets to take down. most players in solo queue that chase will end up on the wrong side of the stick as it were, And everyone should know you never chase down a Junkrat that is just asking for trouble.
I had an Anubis on Defense, 2nd point, solo queue (silver rank btw). Our team was largely disorganized but were sticking on the point pretty well, and even though the opponents were largely disorganized as well they were doing a good job of pressing team fights. We'd maybe wipe them with a single man left on the point. At some point I realize an ult combo or something will team kill us, and we would lose. So I'm playing Reaper and I make the decision to over extend to push their spawn point. I'm confirming kills and staggering their respawns, and yeah they pick me off every once in awhile but I go right back at it. The net effect was making our team fights on the point from 6 v 6, to 5 v 4 or 5 v 3, and my team held the point. This is probably not a good choice in upper ranks because the attacking team should just wait, regroup, turn around and kill me and roll the defense 6 v 5, but they didn't have the game sense.
that banner at 4:25 "Regroup means don't poke either" is something i try to always say to my teamates after we lose a fight a point. But at my SR ( 1,6k) it's almost always neglected and i keep seeing solder/Lucio/... trying to poke, getting killed or feeding ennemys ultimate for no reason.
Now I already know that you have made a video on "The toxicity problem" good video by the way but I am more interested in trolls, I find those even harder to win with. I also know that the simplest explanation is to build around their pick such as a rein to compliment a bastion etc. but could you make a video going over all the most common troll picks and what to build around them. (I am also aware that in the "Is Symmetra meta?" you went over that there isn't really anyone that is impossible to win with, that they just have win conditions that are harder to achieve. But I would still love a video going over how to build around the less... common picks, such as Sombra who is considered one of the worst heroes.) I also want to say love the videos, feel that I'm getting better, going to hit diamond pretty soon, thanks.
At the point "overextending" becomes good, it no longer would be called "overextending." By the very definition of the word "overextend," it is a negative. You are merely _extending_ in the instances you describe as positive.
alright so i was playing ana on first point gilbrator we had to payload past the tunnel and our genji was constantly going in alone and dieing without killing anyone and after 2-3 times of him doing this he blames healers for not healing him we told him not to go in alone and fight while we were fighting his words were: "im genji im supposed to go in alone" i wanted to kms after this....
I tend to play with people who do not even group up before running back in... this sort of thing requires too much coordination, and getting them to regroup is usually enough to win a point. =/
I like to just wait until I get ult as a reinhard then move in and go hard usually when my team is away from me. It works out sometimes since they never expect it, or they don't have a rein.
When I played on PS4 with my friends my friend mained rien but kept charging in not pinning anymore than blaming the team for his death/over extension. I was normally a healer so I tried my best to keep him alive.
Any tips for playing on attack? As a solo queuer with 100+ hours of experience it feels like the defending team has a much greater advantage, to the point where they're practically handed victory
I've done many times where i went too far and got creamed but i have also done this well heaps of times. i often as monkey after we win the fight on say capture points right on top of enemy spawn i will often stand right up to the spawn barrier so they have to either deal with me and lose or ignore me get zapped in the back die and loss. a couple of times as tracer i went behind them and found rein and mercy coming out of spawn together so i started shooting rein and had both running around after me for like a couple of minutes. both was very bad for their side and wasted so much time and even know i die i still either won the game straight after or got back there before them
OVERextending is bad and is not what you are talking about. Pushing past the objective to force trickling when you have the *advantage* in numbers is not OVERextending. OVERextending is when you extend (past the objective) TOO MUCH. Overall, I agree with what is said in the vid', but the dictionary butcher needs to stop.
That is just what its called to leave the defensive positions to chase kills to the benefit or detriment of your team. The prefix over- has little to do with it. If maintaining the objective was called extending then perhaps you would have a point, but I have never heard that in a game.
It's only overextending if you lose :P I've been playing a singularly bloody-minded berserker Symmetra recently, with the update giving her so much more bite than she ever had before. I tend to run duos with a buddy playing Zarya, and we've discovered that the two of us, practically unsupported, can roll up entire deathballs more often than either of us believed possible. I've never racked up so many wins in my life as I have with the ZarMetra team core. It IS Quick Play (Boo boo hiss hiss dirty words, I know I know), and there's definite weaknesses in it, but it turns out that sheer bloodthirsty aggression can, in fact, compensate for a skill gap or a disadvantage in some cases. Not all...but enough to be noticeable. ...doesn't really hurt that nobody in QP can aim for scheiss and a madly bouncing bobbing Symmetra is apparently an evil ghost in terms of targeting. I know it's a diminishing-returns strategy in the higher end, but y'know what? It's fun and much like anything else in the game, you do it until it stops working.
About the playing bad on purpose thing. What if I get 4 dps and they don't switch, do I also go dps or should I fill? Or if 5 dps, do I go tank or heal?
Take this advice with a grain of salt. I actually played competitive tonight and the enemy team over extended on Numbani. It was our turn to push the payload. We were at the last section and all of the enemy team chased down 3 of my team. Our team got split up because of this and they left the payload unguarded. It was the easiest push ever for me.
the problem I've noticed is regrouping...people think we've regrouped when it's only like 4 or 5 people then they go in...when team is already a man down
As a healer, I almost always go and help my rein when he overextends. He gets the kills, and my team doesn't lose a tank in the process. Always what I look for in a healer when I play rein too.
that potg :0 and like i already said before.. freedo plays ana like a god. 36 elims gold as ana while keeping his team from dying all the time holyyy shit. the enemy team may have contributed, still he hits a lot of his healing shots and contributed big to the win
STORY TIME: My friend was playing Overwatch as Junkrat and got BOMPed off the Eichenwalde bridge (right before the castle gate, as defense). He has no mine (due to killing a Mercy with it 2 seconds before) and knows he will die. He RIP-Tires while falling and the tire lands onto the wall. While on the wall, it climbs and goes onto the wall parallel to the bridge (on the edge of the pit of death, where he was). The RIP-Tire (with no noise) climbs onto the higher bridge and then drops onto the team, getting 4 kills. He got POTG from it and ended up with 5 kills and a lonely Lucio by himself facing 5 members of the opposing team.
It's really hard to express this point when playing. Like poking just for the sake of it. People take chip damage while they wait for the team and often die for it and I don't know how to express this
I try to extend a bit when the match is almost over, i.e 95% on control point or overtime. It can slow the enemy down enough to win. Also you obviously can't if it's 6v1 :P
[slightly off topic] -- Trickling in and generally separating, spreading out the team widely is a major problem I observe in too many qp teams in my (probably quite a bit lower than average) skill level. As well as going for kills rather than reaching the game's objective. And it's impossible to get them to group up, in payload matches they sometimes fall for hunting down single opponents far behind the payload as bait, even in the end phase. Also, this is a desperate situation for a healer, especially mercy, bc she often ends up being isolated with only one or no team mate and quickly hunted down. Why is this? I'm no more experienced than most of them, even having a worse aim and reaction time than most of them (I'm 57 and ow is my first online shooter). Maybe you could make a video on this weird behaviour?
What about at the very start of a match, when defending, and before the enemy comes out and you're all ready behind the choke, one of your team just runs up and wants to shoot them outside their spawn? And they ignore all your calls to group up? Do you go and take the crappy position with them?
Rebecca Pugh really depends on the character i play, but technically i only have to run faster than them, so i try to attack the enemy too from max range but abandon the suiciders as soon as i see them losing so i can still be in position when the enemy reaches the choke
If anyone ever watched a Harbleu stream, chances are, you've seen him overextent and be successful with it. Lots of people do it confidently when they want to kill someone who's coming from spawn or pick off the enemy as they're not grouped up yet, all walking to a certain position. Nobody groups up in spawn and you can see some people use that greatly to their advantage. But it can also fail horribly, giving the enemy a free 5v6 because you fucked up.
the problem in my games is that people , when i say group as lucio and taxi them a bit, they rush 2/3 into the point and die and this keeps happening. any tips? basicly, when i taxi people as lucio they wont wait 6 they rush to the point and suicide
If anything for myself, I am actually not over extending enough. I don't confirm kills enough, and so they get healed up and give their healer ult, so its almost worse than if i just died. But thats just how I see it.
Is it ok to use a ult like graviton or whole hog to confirm frags on their supports? Teammates have told me I wasted my ult when using whole hog to kill a lucio and zenyatta
Who all saw on worldcup Finland VS. Chinese Taipei? First map, ToA Taimou overextended to kill their reaper (as McCree) and then he got killed, rest of the team got rolled and they lost the map. FeelsBadMan
Only thing im noticing recently are all of these dsp influenced lucios trying to be crazy with the enemy team and dying. lol I dont usually overextend. Occasionally I may make that mistake as rein and make it out alive, but im sure that usually is because my team followed me up.
Kinda sad there was no mention of overextending/flanking to break up a choke. It's a tactic I use in pretty much any game that isn't a complete insta-win by my team. Any map with a choke that is being held, and especially with capture objectives, as long as you can quickly get past the choke (genji, reaper, mei even, sombra, pharah etc etc) and onto an objective or to a strategic point behind the enemy team, you can force them to break up their team or fall back as a team, allowing your team past the choke to a more advantageous spot - and if you play it well you can get away with not dying and even get some kills. It works like 80-90% of the time I do it. Maybe it's not something that works against well-communicating 6-stacks in high diamond and above but in low diamond and high plat it works like a charm. Main thing is, if you're solo, to communicate what you're doing to your team. If you don't tell them explicitly to be ready to push when the enemy falls back etc then it has a way lower success rate because they just zone out/get stuck in that kind of choke rut.
Isnt over extending just a bad version of extending. like you can extend succesfully if you OVERextend thats doing to much right? If i work out to the max and not overdo it its simply working, if i get hurt in the procedd i clearly overworked
5:53 holy shit that Reinhardt play was insane
Now that's BOCAN for ya. Easily the best non-pro rein player I've ever seen
you see it from his perspective at the end of the vid, it's absolutely brutal 6:51
ikr
for a rein main, it's damn satisfying to watch.
extra points for jumping off the cliff at the end haha
I swear it actually made me cum. Shit was hot.
Lmfao Reinhardt going bowling at 5:49
That Rein POTG was sick af
did he jump off the edge at the end of it lol
A lot of people aren't happy that i didnt use the exact dictionary example of overextend, the reason i didnt is because the word "extend" has NO USE at all in gaming. its not a known term so i use the words "pushing the advantage" to help people understand a lot easier the fine line between it being a good and bad thing. I think the video is a lot easier to follow because of this and that's what matters when trying to give advice :) Thanks for watching and i hope you guys enjoyed! -w
Your Overwatch Hey Guys, dropped a comment on another video and you didn't notice so I thought I'd drop it here. I'm in the process of writing an overwatch article (probably just for Reddit) about lessons I've learned climbing in Solo queue and how I feel they could help people who are struggling. I was just wondering if you guys could get in touch, if you like, to maybe just pick your brains and maybe through some ideas in. Would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers guys.
Battle.net - Straydog191
Can you guys's make a video on the support burden? Supports are labeled as the easiest classes to play, and people will even flex support but sometimes I just feel like they don't do it right. When I play support, the first person to die is me, more often than not. Whether it's because my positioning is bad because I have to back up someone else with bad position or even because I just choose it myself, or whether it's because they have a good Genji on the enemy team or that Reaper who flanks every fight who nobody picks up on. I rarely find it hard to keep teammates who are together and properly positioned alive, especially in a dual support line-up (a lot of solo ana+symmetra lately), as long as I'm alive.
Anyways, I played mostly support season 1 and half of season 2 and to be frank, I'm kind of tired of it. So I started improving my aim (I played ana and was already working on it) and started playing more DPS characters. Now the thing I notice is that when I play DPS, if we are winning it's almost seemless and I can just shoot things and they die and the team cheers and we wipe them. But then there are games where I have absolutely NO SPACE. There is a pharah in the sky and they say "we have a mccree but he won't shoot the pharah" and it's like I'm shooting her to 20% after about 3-6 seconds of me seeing her and she drops to the ground. Either that or she lands 2 rockets (direct hit+splash or what have you) and I'm critical and have to fall back. When your team pressures you as a DPS player and they don't give you healing until you ask for it, it's just too hard. I mean if I want to extend a bit and do some damage I'm basically on my own until I ask for healing, like I have to win the fight first, survive it, and only THEN do I deserve healing, or at least that's how I feel sometimes.
If I'm a dps player I should be able to get heals without having to ask, and thats why I wish you guys would make a video on that. Sure every once and a while is fine, Healers are human too. I started to find a lot of people who get annoyed when you spam the 'x' key ("I need healing") and I tell them, it's just solo queue habits. I personally don't mind at all when someone hits it and typically when I'm heals, they are getting it before the line even comes out. But sometimes they don't and if I need my attention drawn toward them then that's fine and dandy. Too many Reapers in solo queue would rather wraith form to the nearest 75 health pack (usually on the enemy side of the battle due to their terrible flank) when low instead of coming back to me the healer and on the other hand I've had many games where I'm the first to die from poke damage behind a rein shield with a healer right next to me. I know it's my fault for not paying attention to my own health a lot of the times, but I just feel it's not hard to keep everyone topped off from poke damage in those type of fights (note this is usually with Ana/Zen combos).
Anyways, I don't know HOW much you guys read comments, but yeah, here you go.
TL;DR we need a Video to tell people that when you flex support there is more to it than healing the tanks. You need to keep dps topped off, but you should also be able to help them win the fights that they may want to take.
it's usually just called "pushing", not "extending", and when you push too far to the point it's bad then it's generally called "overextending"
Sometimes when I chase kills as Lucio I get my kill he has the speed to catch up but the gun is too unreliable. I'm supposedly top 3% with crits and top 2% for overall accuracy with Lucio and even I feel like his gun is too unreliable :(
You guys should use Community Sent Clips and use them to set out either Good or Bad Examples just to connect alittle bit more with the Community it would be great!
Anonymous freedo does that on his own channel
Cringeycrisp Ohh nice thanks mate i didnt know that
In this Overwatch guide, we go through the concept of overextending, when it is bad but also how to implement this controversial tactic. Let us know your experiences of overextending in game and be sure to drop a Like & Subscribe if you enjoyed!
k
Your Overwatch k
Your Overwatch Mkay. Yeah, sure.
Is this considered as chasedowns?
what is a frag?
That rein charge! "I am your shield! And a rhinoceros" A rein-oceros if you will.
Dat Reinhardt charge tho at 5:53
Ryan B It is better shown at 6:53 (PotG). The Firestrike multikill was even more impressive.
True, awesome play either way.
Best part was the suicide
You're talking about pushing, not over extending; over extending is pushing into enemy territory on your own without the resources to do damage.
That's interesting, about taking extra ground on control. I'd say that often isn't the case on lower ranks. Oftentimes the deeper chokes on control points are too barren for my low-rank solo-queu teams to keep up with. They always end up overextended or chasing a kill to their spawn.
Your videos have been helping me out recently, got out of gold and climbed 350 SR in a day. Should hopefully get to diamond soon. Also, started playing a lot of Widowmaker lately due to your guide, encouraged me to try her. I'm enjoying her a lot and I've been doing good. You guys are truly an amazing channel. Keep it up guys!
What really sucks is the junkrat that ignores the fact that i, reinhardt, am waiting for the rest of the team and he decides to go to point on his own and dies immediately as a result
Good example of over-extending: when I was playing Attack-Symmetra on Hollywood once, the enemy team had a lot of trouble up until the final point, and ended up finally holding us back. Eventually, they managed to keep us away for a good 4 minutes or so, and had pushed us all the way up to our spawn. Because of this over-extension on their part, I, as Symmetra, managed to sneak around to the payload, jumped on it, and rode it to victory without anyone noticing.
If overextending is good it's not overextending. Overextending is always a negative term.
Overextending is such a context sensitive term in so many games. Overwatch definitely has a big gray line at times but typically the numbers of teams help determine the front line location. Cheeky decoy tactics can work in some situations but tend to be more for against disorganized groups, situations that could be heavily capitalized on such as wiping healers, or games with multiple objectives to attack/defend.
Not even in the notification squad but here in the first minute
DwarvenKing0 refresh squad
Best squad
DwarvenKing0 true. Notfication squad is for noobs
pretty sure positive overextending isn't overextending. If my recipe says to cook a steak for 5 minutes and i cook it for 10 and it tastes better, the steak isn't overcooked, is it?
please correct me tho if i am wrong.
Darren Fleming according to the recipe it is overcooked. It doesn't mean it's bad it just means that you Haven't followed the recipe and cooked it more ten the recipe said.
I find myself fighting in the back line with Tracer and Winston pretty often but the key thing I do is I try and get back to safe ground when I get challenged. If the entire enemy team is trying to kill me as tracer then I've already done my job and most of the time you don't even have to confirm a kill to make it happen you just need to stay alive and poke at the heroes that are trying to focus on doing their job and not you. That's when you make space for your team to get team wiping ults and take the objective easier. On point as always guys GJ
I have a good example of bad overextending in KoTH, because soloq has no rules really. it was the underground point of Nepal, my team just barely won the team fight, leaving me as Ana, a Zarya and a Winston alive. we capped the point, and the big guys thought it would be a good idea to go 3v6 at the enemy's main entrance... that defeat was the proof of the unlimited capability of stupidity in OW
This actually just happened to me yesterday where my team didnt understand the concept i was trying to convey. its a strategy i learned since gears 1, cod, halo. take the advantage if u know 1 of them is down it doesnt matter how far u go past the object (reasonably of course) that crucial 4v3 past the objective is the difference between 0% and 100%
And this video is a perfect example of why this channel is so much more useful than Unit Lost. So much valuable info presented not as gospel, but as suggestions with technical commentary involved.
it isn't over extending of it is good, it is just extending
i generally count numbers in certain situations to see if overextending is worth it. If we just won a team fight by killing 3 of the enemy team members and they are reeling back to regroup, its probably a good idea to push these last 3 to try confirm a staggered kill. of course if you are chasing 3 alone, then the numbers arent in favour to you.
you need to be aware of where the enemy spawns and how much time you have to confirm the stagger kill before they get respawn backups.
if you win a team fight with a dva bomb that wipes the enemy team, its probably a bad idea to overextend because the enemy is going to auto regroup by spawning in together.
I've definitely thought about overextending as a strategy, but normally, I don't. If somebody's pushed up too far, then maybe we take them out and confirm the kill if it's within reason. Most of the time, though, if my team will listen, I constantly tell them not to overextend. I feel like I know when it's a good time to do it, but it's more that I don't trust some of the randoms I play with, so I try to play it smart and safe if we can get away with it. Sometimes I do try, though, especially when being held at the choke as the attacking team, but only if I can be apart of the initiation. If I'm healing, and move with the push, then I have to trust my teammates, and one of the biggest issues, at least in lower rank solo queue, as that people don't know how to build proper comps. So, while it is very possible to do it, most of the team has chosen characters that can't properly initiate said push, and of course they won't switch because they think everything's fine, so you have to just bite your tongue and figure something else out.
the strategy is excellent, but the dictionary definition of "overextend" is to go to far.
if you push and it works, then you didn't overextend.
I overextended once. It was the Cp map with the windmill. As Rein my shield just broke, their hog has been going on mad flanks and giving our healers some issue. So I charged him, I tried to pin him to the blue wall but missed and made it into the Health pack room. $ of their team turned away from the point and my team to deal with me. One Tank being a D.va I was smacking around before I got my charge up. I tried to charge a Genji off the cliff but got the Hog and had D.va out of her mech. We held the point and the hog stopped pulling mad flanks letting us win the game.
Could not agree more. So many times I tried to explain this idea mid game. Most of the time team would rather let the overextending team member die and wait for his respawn before trying again than trying to take advantage of the fight and maybe win it.
I solo queue in high silver. Sometimes you'll get people that are actualy kinda good and actualy communicate (a rare delicacy at this level) but if like 3 or 4 of us start going past a choke when we're on defense and we've wiped the enemy team someone will be like "Fall back, don't over extend." so we all return to the objective. But I usually question why not to just keep pushing them and making sure that they can't get to the point especially if there are fewer flank routes in this area. We're not COMPLETELY incompetent, we know when to fall back if we have to... I feel like this video kind of points that out... man I need a team...
There's this guy named krusher99 that keeps kicking my ass....there's a legend that he was the first overwatch player ever
Tracer gay
Tracer you finally came out of the closet!
gabriel jimenez that isn't Tracer in the comic, she doesn't have her cronal accelerator
Cin Lives I think blizzard confirmed that the cronal accelerator doesn't have to be on for it to work it just has to be nearby
Usually it's the Genji main & Soldier 76 that overextend but get wrecked in my experience. But your point on rushing with them into that mistimed push helps save the player 80% of the time.
get ready to see a lot of people overextending for the next hours
5:53 laws of physics do not apply to rein's charge.
I typically play a little more coy, and defensively, so whenever I have someone on my team trying to go off on a mad flank, I'm always so hesitant to bite the bullet and just stick with them. I know it's better to be bad players as a team, than to be a great player on your own, but it just confuses my core programming to purposefully make bad choices.
My friends and I love doing this on control point or as soon as we capture a point on payload maps (though not as far). Pushing the enemy back so that your objective gains points/moves for free is incredibly viable if they don't coordinate and group up. You literally can 100-0 games like this
One of my most proud of overextend was on Eichenwalde, was genji, the other team had just a mercy as a solo healer, i reflected a fire strike and killed her, walked back then realised i took out there only healer, dashed through the choke drew blade and took out 3 DPS well everyone else came behind me dealing with the tanks
YO: **says something**
YO: **makes another video saying something completely different**
Sometimes i over extend in overwatch mostly to see how the enemy reacts if they back off or they chase, those that chase are easy targets to take down. most players in solo queue that chase will end up on the wrong side of the stick as it were, And everyone should know you never chase down a Junkrat that is just asking for trouble.
Freedo's Anna skills were on point........cheers mate.
I had an Anubis on Defense, 2nd point, solo queue (silver rank btw). Our team was largely disorganized but were sticking on the point pretty well, and even though the opponents were largely disorganized as well they were doing a good job of pressing team fights. We'd maybe wipe them with a single man left on the point. At some point I realize an ult combo or something will team kill us, and we would lose. So I'm playing Reaper and I make the decision to over extend to push their spawn point. I'm confirming kills and staggering their respawns, and yeah they pick me off every once in awhile but I go right back at it. The net effect was making our team fights on the point from 6 v 6, to 5 v 4 or 5 v 3, and my team held the point. This is probably not a good choice in upper ranks because the attacking team should just wait, regroup, turn around and kill me and roll the defense 6 v 5, but they didn't have the game sense.
I just play for fun so it is neat to have you put terminology on things i see happening.
that banner at 4:25 "Regroup means don't poke either" is something i try to always say to my teamates after we lose a fight a point. But at my SR ( 1,6k) it's almost always neglected and i keep seeing solder/Lucio/... trying to poke, getting killed or feeding ennemys ultimate for no reason.
Now I already know that you have made a video on "The toxicity problem" good video by the way but I am more interested in trolls, I find those even harder to win with. I also know that the simplest explanation is to build around their pick such as a rein to compliment a bastion etc. but could you make a video going over all the most common troll picks and what to build around them. (I am also aware that in the "Is Symmetra meta?" you went over that there isn't really anyone that is impossible to win with, that they just have win conditions that are harder to achieve. But I would still love a video going over how to build around the less... common picks, such as Sombra who is considered one of the worst heroes.) I also want to say love the videos, feel that I'm getting better, going to hit diamond pretty soon, thanks.
At the point "overextending" becomes good, it no longer would be called "overextending." By the very definition of the word "overextend," it is a negative. You are merely _extending_ in the instances you describe as positive.
alright so i was playing ana on first point gilbrator we had to payload past the tunnel
and our genji was constantly going in alone and dieing without killing anyone
and after 2-3 times of him doing this he blames healers for not healing him
we told him not to go in alone and fight while we were fighting
his words were: "im genji im supposed to go in alone"
i wanted to kms after this....
Hey guys, can you talk about duo queue, and how it differs from the solo queue style of play?
Your videos are amazing, keep up the good work!
I tend to play with people who do not even group up before running back in... this sort of thing requires too much coordination, and getting them to regroup is usually enough to win a point. =/
My friend always overextends as Reaper. I sent this video to him as soon as you uploaded it.
I like to just wait until I get ult as a reinhard then move in and go hard usually when my team is away from me. It works out sometimes since they never expect it, or they don't have a rein.
When I played on PS4 with my friends my friend mained rien but kept charging in not pinning anymore than blaming the team for his death/over extension. I was normally a healer so I tried my best to keep him alive.
Any tips for playing on attack? As a solo queuer with 100+ hours of experience it feels like the defending team has a much greater advantage, to the point where they're practically handed victory
I've done many times where i went too far and got creamed but i have also done this well heaps of times. i often as monkey after we win the fight on say capture points right on top of enemy spawn i will often stand right up to the spawn barrier so they have to either deal with me and lose or ignore me get zapped in the back die and loss. a couple of times as tracer i went behind them and found rein and mercy coming out of spawn together so i started shooting rein and had both running around after me for like a couple of minutes. both was very bad for their side and wasted so much time and even know i die i still either won the game straight after or got back there before them
OVERextending is bad and is not what you are talking about. Pushing past the objective to force trickling when you have the *advantage* in numbers is not OVERextending. OVERextending is when you extend (past the objective) TOO MUCH.
Overall, I agree with what is said in the vid', but the dictionary butcher needs to stop.
That is just what its called to leave the defensive positions to chase kills to the benefit or detriment of your team. The prefix over- has little to do with it. If maintaining the objective was called extending then perhaps you would have a point, but I have never heard that in a game.
It's only overextending if you lose :P
I've been playing a singularly bloody-minded berserker Symmetra recently, with the update giving her so much more bite than she ever had before. I tend to run duos with a buddy playing Zarya, and we've discovered that the two of us, practically unsupported, can roll up entire deathballs more often than either of us believed possible. I've never racked up so many wins in my life as I have with the ZarMetra team core.
It IS Quick Play (Boo boo hiss hiss dirty words, I know I know), and there's definite weaknesses in it, but it turns out that sheer bloodthirsty aggression can, in fact, compensate for a skill gap or a disadvantage in some cases. Not all...but enough to be noticeable. ...doesn't really hurt that nobody in QP can aim for scheiss and a madly bouncing bobbing Symmetra is apparently an evil ghost in terms of targeting. I know it's a diminishing-returns strategy in the higher end, but y'know what? It's fun and much like anything else in the game, you do it until it stops working.
Another great video! What is the background music used in your vids?
OH THAT PLAY AT 5:50
If they'd been stunned half a second longer that would have been incredible
About the playing bad on purpose thing. What if I get 4 dps and they don't switch, do I also go dps or should I fill? Or if 5 dps, do I go tank or heal?
Alex Smirnov If 5 DPS, go Ana and ask for a tank. You will more likely get a Rein switch. Or pick Rein and ask for a healer to get a Ana.
Take this advice with a grain of salt. I actually played competitive tonight and the enemy team over extended on Numbani. It was our turn to push the payload. We were at the last section and all of the enemy team chased down 3 of my team. Our team got split up because of this and they left the payload unguarded. It was the easiest push ever for me.
Freedo is playing Ana like he's filming a trickshot video in MW2 lmao
the problem I've noticed is regrouping...people think we've regrouped when it's only like 4 or 5 people then they go in...when team is already a man down
As a healer, I almost always go and help my rein when he overextends. He gets the kills, and my team doesn't lose a tank in the process. Always what I look for in a healer when I play rein too.
that potg :0
and like i already said before.. freedo plays ana like a god. 36 elims gold as ana while keeping his team from dying all the time holyyy shit. the enemy team may have contributed, still he hits a lot of his healing shots and contributed big to the win
Pretty much almost all the time have team mates over extending. Have tried going in with them more and sometimes we actual win because of that
STORY TIME: My friend was playing Overwatch as Junkrat and got BOMPed off the Eichenwalde bridge (right before the castle gate, as defense). He has no mine (due to killing a Mercy with it 2 seconds before) and knows he will die. He RIP-Tires while falling and the tire lands onto the wall. While on the wall, it climbs and goes onto the wall parallel to the bridge (on the edge of the pit of death, where he was). The RIP-Tire (with no noise) climbs onto the higher bridge and then drops onto the team, getting 4 kills. He got POTG from it and ended up with 5 kills and a lonely Lucio by himself facing 5 members of the opposing team.
have you done a video on where to set up? if not can you? because especially on payload It's hard to tell where to setup, and where not to.
It's really hard to express this point when playing. Like poking just for the sake of it. People take chip damage while they wait for the team and often die for it and I don't know how to express this
I try to extend a bit when the match is almost over, i.e 95% on control point or overtime. It can slow the enemy down enough to win.
Also you obviously can't if it's 6v1 :P
[slightly off topic] -- Trickling in and generally separating, spreading out the team widely is a major problem I observe in too many qp teams in my (probably quite a bit lower than average) skill level. As well as going for kills rather than reaching the game's objective. And it's impossible to get them to group up, in payload matches they sometimes fall for hunting down single opponents far behind the payload as bait, even in the end phase.
Also, this is a desperate situation for a healer, especially mercy, bc she often ends up being isolated with only one or no team mate and quickly hunted down.
Why is this? I'm no more experienced than most of them, even having a worse aim and reaction time than most of them (I'm 57 and ow is my first online shooter).
Maybe you could make a video on this weird behaviour?
In the last comp game I played. Two of the members of my team overextended and cost us a 2 minute lead and the entire game
When one or two people go away from the team to chase, that is over extending. When the whole team goes, then you're pushing the enemy into spawn.
What about at the very start of a match, when defending, and before the enemy comes out and you're all ready behind the choke, one of your team just runs up and wants to shoot them outside their spawn? And they ignore all your calls to group up? Do you go and take the crappy position with them?
Rebecca Pugh really depends on the character i play, but technically i only have to run faster than them, so i try to attack the enemy too from max range but abandon the suiciders as soon as i see them losing so i can still be in position when the enemy reaches the choke
That Reinhardt POTG was awesome
freedo played like a god that was beautiful
The problem with trying this in solo queue is that you can't be sure if your team will fall back when the enemy gets a kill :(
I was trying to watch this video but the legend27 keeps kicking my ass.
If anyone ever watched a Harbleu stream, chances are, you've seen him overextent and be successful with it. Lots of people do it confidently when they want to kill someone who's coming from spawn or pick off the enemy as they're not grouped up yet, all walking to a certain position. Nobody groups up in spawn and you can see some people use that greatly to their advantage. But it can also fail horribly, giving the enemy a free 5v6 because you fucked up.
the problem in my games is that people , when i say group as lucio and taxi them a bit, they rush 2/3 into the point and die and this keeps happening. any tips?
basicly, when i taxi people as lucio they wont wait 6 they rush to the point and suicide
If anything for myself, I am actually not over extending enough. I don't confirm kills enough, and so they get healed up and give their healer ult, so its almost worse than if i just died.
But thats just how I see it.
Is doing chip damage without the rest of the team alright, just to get ult charge?
Are freedos favorite chips Fritos?
Crescential mine are :p
UA-cam unsubscribed me from your videos even though I watch you everyday. Feels bad man
Yeah I know spawnkilling is bad but I can't resist to do it when I play as Tracer or Sombra. Only in Quickplay/arcade though
Well Tracer is by nature an over extender, I woudnt go out of my position as healer though to save her.She can save herself or come back for heals.
It's not overextending if it's good, it's just extending.
Is it ok to use a ult like graviton or whole hog to confirm frags on their supports? Teammates have told me I wasted my ult when using whole hog to kill a lucio and zenyatta
Who all saw on worldcup Finland VS. Chinese Taipei? First map, ToA Taimou overextended to kill their reaper (as McCree) and then he got killed, rest of the team got rolled and they lost the map. FeelsBadMan
I think the simplest way to get across the point you want make is this: Only do it if you commit everyone to it.
For the love of god blizzard make these videos mandatory to watch before you're allowed to play comp
Fuckin hell that Reinhardt potg was good. Nice one
On the thumbnail it looks like: "when it is ok to overextend your Overwatch."
Only thing im noticing recently are all of these dsp influenced lucios trying to be crazy with the enemy team and dying. lol
I dont usually overextend. Occasionally I may make that mistake as rein and make it out alive, but im sure that usually is because my team followed me up.
Kinda sad there was no mention of overextending/flanking to break up a choke. It's a tactic I use in pretty much any game that isn't a complete insta-win by my team. Any map with a choke that is being held, and especially with capture objectives, as long as you can quickly get past the choke (genji, reaper, mei even, sombra, pharah etc etc) and onto an objective or to a strategic point behind the enemy team, you can force them to break up their team or fall back as a team, allowing your team past the choke to a more advantageous spot - and if you play it well you can get away with not dying and even get some kills. It works like 80-90% of the time I do it. Maybe it's not something that works against well-communicating 6-stacks in high diamond and above but in low diamond and high plat it works like a charm. Main thing is, if you're solo, to communicate what you're doing to your team. If you don't tell them explicitly to be ready to push when the enemy falls back etc then it has a way lower success rate because they just zone out/get stuck in that kind of choke rut.
Theres always that one guy doing a bastion flank towards the enemy spawn
I've been saying this since the beginning of time thank you guys
Did that Reinhardt just jumped out of the cliff after potg or its just me?
Isnt over extending just a bad version of extending. like you can extend succesfully if you OVERextend thats doing to much right? If i work out to the max and not overdo it its simply working, if i get hurt in the procedd i clearly overworked
Holy shit that POTG was amazing
when your Rein overextends
and then wins the fight for your team
The worst are soldier 76 pro genjis. Had one yesterday that would try and flank and got killed every time and complained to everyone else. Lol
Overextending doesn't work in high rank I'm (3818) Because they'll just use Mei, and RoadHog
true but these guys aren't aiming their advice at high elo
True