Harley Open Belt Primary Guide: Which Kit Should You Buy?
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- In this video I'll help you solve one of the most commonly asked questions about Open Belt Primary Drives on Harley Davidson motorcycles...WHICH KIT SHOULD YOU BUY?
I'll go over all the factors to consider including...
-Which kits fit which model years
-What belt width is right for you
-What additional parts you'll need that don't come in the kit
-Open vs Closed Primary Belt setups
-Engine spline changes over different Harley models
-What kit I purchased and WHY
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Chapters
Intro 0:00-0:37
Question Funnel 0:38-1:15
Question 1 1:16-2:36
Question 2 2:37-4:01
Question 3 4:02-5:14
Question 4 5:15-9:34
A Quick Reminder 9:35-9:56
Question 5 9:57-12:08
Question 6 12:09-14:45
Question 7 14:46-16:11
What Did I Buy? 16:12-18:02
A Lifechanging Hack 18:03-18:47 - Авто та транспорт
I’m no expert and I don’t claim to know it all, but this video is a great starting point for this discussion. If you’ve got some more information to add, please leave it in the comments below. You could help another builder by sharing that info here 🙏🏼🤘🏼
Hi grease I have the same setup as you is there any chance you could link it to me?
The open primary I mean, my inner primary on my 1985 kick start fxst is messed up and I can’t replace it so I need to go open primary
Give this dude a tv show
🙏🏼 🤞🏼
Let's be real though, producers would ruin it. UA-cam is the perfect platform for this type of genuinely useful content.
That’s a good point. If I wasn’t able to do it in the style I like then it wouldn’t be worth it
For real
Had a 11mm phase 3 on my 83 FXWG. Went back to Chain after Starter gear teeth wore down. Was on my FXWG for many years.
I have heard when running a closed primary you can add washers on the screws between the inner a outer primary to create a gap that will allow ventilation
That’s brilliant, hadn’t thought of that 🤘🏼
You can also put washers between the center and rear inspection covers. That’s what I did on my bike about 10 years ago and never had an overheating problem.
Phase 3 of America.....
Absolutely the best belt. Been running a 2 inch Phase 3 belt for 40 years now and it still hasn't broke.
Hands down one of the best video series out there with easy to digest information. Funny enough, im doing a clutch rebuild as we speak. Putting a rivero primo clutch on.
Really appreciate that man! Thank you 🙏🏼 let me know how the install goes 🤘🏼
I agree with your points on the idler gear but, on the flipside, a idler gear would be easier to adjust than the transmission. Even with a adjustable trans plate. Just something worth mentioning.
The thing about the idler gear is that you can only mount it if you have an inner primary. And if you’ve got an inner primary you can’t adjust the trans via the adjustable trans plate anyways.
So it’s an option for closed primary riders only. That being said, idler gear is only available for 11MM belts so if you’re going with an 8MM it won’t be an option.
bdl are great! use on my shovel / kickstart only
I agree, had my BDL two years now never touched or adjusted it after the install
That's exactly what I've got on my to shovelheads 1 1/2 8mm kick only and I love it!
thanks for the information grease ✨
Great video. Very informative. Thanks.
Awesome! Thanks for doing these videos! 🤘
So comprehensive. Great work, my friend!
Thank you Steve 🙏🏼
Awesome video, been putting this off cause I haven’t found all the info I need. Thanks dude
Happy I could help! Be sure to check out the comments section as well there’s been some more good info coming in from other builders 💪🏼🤘🏼
Well done my good man. You answered all the questions I had before I purchased a Belt Drive, and had to find out the answers for myself 😅. We even shared many of the same sentiments such as why the goofy millimeter spacing. Belt drives are great, they are so maintenance free and remove a lot of vibration and jerkiness..
Agreed 100%, it’s one of the best upgrades I’ve made to this bike since owning it. Even kickstarting is easier with the belt. It helps that I love the noise of the dry clutch though, I know some people (see the comments) find it horrible haha
Great video.Lots of great info.
Glad it was helpful 🤘🏼 feel free to let me know if there’s another topic you’d be interested in seeing a video on
Back in the 1970s/early 1980s, I had good luck with Phase 3 belt drives and Karata belt drives. My engines were no bigger than 84 cu. in.. I ran 1 1/2-inch 8mm. belts. I made sure that the pulleys were properly aligned and that the belts were well-ventilated. I ran my belt drives enclosed within steel primary covers. I don't like idlers. Thanks, Grease, for breaking down this subject to its basics. Ride safe.
Thanks for sharing this, I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of companies come and go since then. I heard another viewer say he spoke to BDL directly who told him the 8mm is the most reliable setup and that 8mm doesn’t use the idler gear.
The more I hear the more it’s sounding like 8mm no idler is the best way to start
Hey one other question for you. When you put the belt in your inner primary, did you have to grind away any of the casting lines/bumps for clearance or did it fit in there without issue?
A few people told me they had clearance problems so I’m trying to learn if that’s always an issue or just in rare cases
@@greasesgarage You're welcome. Of course, the materials which the belts are composed of now are a lot better than the earlier products. Gates used to fabricate the earlier belts. They worked very well. I don't know if Gates still makes those belts. Gates made belts for passenger cars and for superchargers on dragster/funny car engines. All the best in 2024. Ride safe.
SPOT ON !
Thanks Kurt!
Thanks, great video, I now know what type of belt drive I would need should I want to change from my chain setup, my next problem is….belt or chain. Thanks again, very informative.
I have 1988 softail with kicker and electric start I bought the primo dry belt clutch kit. Yes you do have to grind some material off the inner primary so the belt doesn't rub and I do not have the idler gear. I haven't needed the idler gear in 10 years works fine without it. Run a jockey shift on mine as well and love it been 15 years now.
15 years is a solid review, glad to hear it!
Great concise video man. A legend!
Thank you!
I love your videos man keep them coming
Thanks Pat! 🙏🏼
You make the best videos with content, editing, sound,just the best BUT BUT BUT 3 inch belts all the way my man!
Haha thank you brotha 🙏🏼 really appreciate that
2'' looks great with a mid controls to
Thanks!
Thank you! I really appreciate this brotha 🙏🏼
Great video brother 🔥😎👊
Thanks brotha!
dude, so much help. thanx man.
🙏🏼🤘🏼
Prepping for a closed primary kit on my '95 Dyna because I have mid controls. Thank you for the info!
Happy to hear it helped!
At 6:58 “Go in underneath, and do the NUTS up” (making that twisting finger & hand motion.
@greasesgarage I thought that was something only my girlfriend did. 😂😂😂😉😳😜🤩😆😆👍🤦🏻♂️🙌
Lmao
Allways use a steel straightedge to check pulley alignment ,for proper shimming . 8mm and 11mm are very close in ratio . no idler gear , bad for belt life ,heats up . great video !
Amen to that. I think the 8mm 1 1/2” kit with no idler gear is about the best option for 90% of chopper guys looking to try a belt primary
Great videos this one made me a subscriber 👍🏼 thank you, it answered a lot of questions
I was leaning towards BDL but now for sure.
I have a question about wet closed primary like I have now,
When I convert to open primary is there any weep holes from the engine or transmission that need to be plugged, this is my first shovel
71 shovel I believe 84 cowpie
As you can probably tell I’m new to this , keep up the great videos , I’m binge watching them now 👍🏼
Happy to hear that!
As for your current setup, no weep holes to plug. Unlike the sportster, the big twin has 3 separate oils…engine, trans and primary. So when you remove the inner and outer primary it’s just one less thing you need to fill, it’s great.
You’ll still have your engine oil and trans oil to change but 2 is better than 3. Especially on those old shovels which tended to have leaky primaries
Ran a BDL enclosed on EVO 5 speed. Inner primary placed on mill table and mounting areas level/even with grinding for belt clearance - outer primary vented. Belt tracks true and cool.
Got it so it is sometimes necessary to mill the primary out. That’s good to know! Did you retain your stock 5 speed clutch? Which kit did you end up buying?
I get a lot of questions on that setup so I’m curious since I don’t have one to show folks
Milling mounting surface ensures engine and transmission are square. Install engine, then inner primary, and transmission to frame last. Running BDL clutch which is the weak link in this setup. Good but plates wear and need replacement sooner than stock.
Thank you for your video. Very clear explanations. I installed a BDL closed belt primary drive on my 1979 shovel electra glide. I'm facing a problem with the starter (pinion engaging only after few starting attempts) but I'm receiving a good support from BDL how to solve the matter. Regarding the ventilation of the primary case, do you think it is sufficient to install 3/8" spacers to the clutch cover and to the inspection cover so air can circulate and heat escape? Thanks for your advise
Glad to hear it! As far as the spacers I think that would work yes, or better yet just remove the covers entirely
Another great, informative video. Thanks grease.
Shovelhead Paul.
Thank you Paul 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
4 inch width belt, got it. Hahah. Another solid vid man
Hahaha a true classic 👌🏼
Hay grease I have four shovel heads and an 88 Softail custom and a 2016 Dyna wide glide and the Yamaha XS650 hardtail bobber I've got belts on two of the shovelheads love them 8 mm with a pro clutch kick only!
Love to hear it man! I really think that for 90% of people watching this video the classic 8mm, 1.5” kickstart only kit is just unbeatable. And for $330ish, why look anywhere else.
Awesome collection too, sounds like you’ve got a ride for every occasion 🤘🏼
Hi Grease, another informative video, I've just bought that exact belt drive for my upcoming chopper build( currently collecting parts until i find the right donor bike) what's the tooth count on your front and rear sprockets? Thanks
Awesome! It’s a great kit and very plug and play. BDL says this kit is a 61 tooth rear and 41 tooth front. I didn’t see anywhere that listed another option for the kit though, I think you’re stuck with those sizes unless you make a special order
I didn’t know an adjustment kit existed 👍
Great vid very well explained to the point..One question ,I guess you don't need the compansator for the front pulley ,just the pulley ..Thanks
That’s correct no compensator needed once you go belt drive 👍🏼👍🏼
@@greasesgarage Thank You .
Mines a BDL 1 1/2. Easy peasy 👍
Glad to hear it! 🤘🏼
thanks for the video G. Before internet, I installed the BDL 8mm x 2"in. kit to my 73 FXE w/ratchet top trans (and dumped the electric start). I don't remember where I bought the trans shaft support bracket(probably JP crap), but I had to shape fabricated spacers to align the clutch basket outward to the motor pulley. Being my first Harley, I spent a lot of frustrated time trying to figure out what could be wrong with my machine, the instructions didn't illustrate an open primary application similar to mine, but eventually I decided to fab the shims and go forward. There's possibly different trans shaft bracket dimensions?? But anyway, I still kick n ride that little bobber beast for fun.
That’s interesting I’ve not heard of that shimming process before. Where did the shims go exactly? So cool you’re still riding it to this day tho man that inspires me to keep this evo for life
Hey grease I've got an 88 Softail custom I put an s&s super e on it what jets are you running on it on your bike main and inermy if you don't mind telling me I appreciate it and love your videos!
Don’t mind at all, I’ve got a whole video showing my jets and recommendations for other bikes here. I’ll have to rewatch to confirm but I believe I’m running 72 main 29.5 pilot on my 80” motor
S&S Super E Carb 101: Jetting, Float Height, Factory Settings
ua-cam.com/video/RyRL8-yESXo/v-deo.html
Are Evo Dyna’s similar enough to a softtail to do a hardtail project on? They seem to be more common in my area, but I heard somewhere that the frames may be different. Looking forward to buying the right bike!
Unfortunately they are not. I hate to say it but it will be much more headache than you need if you try to start with a dyna because the frame is so different.
The softail really is worth waiting for, or a Shovelhead
The ratio is 1.4878... rounded to 1.5 to 1 The motor pulley revolves 1.5 times for every 1 revolution of the clutch pulley.
At first I was running a closed primary, vented belt drive on my shovel. Although it provided an out for hot air from friction, I saw no means for cooler air to get to it. Everything would be hot to the touch after a ride. After deciding to go to an open belt setup, I found that all my components were no hotter than the ambient temperature after a good ride. I can lay my hand on the clutch basket and it be lukewarm at best.
Thanks for sharing this, this is good to know! Out of curiosity, beyond the heat of the parts, did running it closed ever cause any problems or did it just get real warm?
@@greasesgarage It got pretty hot. I didn't run it long enough as a closed primary to find out if it would be a problem though. However, I did see it as a potential problem for longevity. It's a known fact that the road life of a belt doesn't come close to the road life of a chain in an oil bath closed primary. And dry clutches don't get the same cooling as wet clutches. So I went with open belt for functional reasons, and by default went with footclutch, jockey shift, and kickstart.
@SaddleTrampTV the only way to do it brotha! Gotta do all 3 🤘🏼
Hi man! Great videos. Any advice in the clutch? I’m assuming you need a new clutch basket or “dry clutch kit” with it?
This sounds like a good topic for future video. But long story short I used a standard Shovelhead clutch basket with some normal (but new) clutch plates. Nothing special for dry clutch just can’t use a previously soaked plate.
@@greasesgarage thank you! Super helpful!!
I was hoping you would go into what’s inside your clutch basket? Maybe another video is in order for your clutch discs & steels?
That’s a great idea. I could do a video on a full clutch basket removal and reassembly which would show all the parts
Im setting up to run a primo on my 91 evo 5spd. Do you know if the transmission support bracket for a 4spd willbolt up to a 5spd? Cant find one for the 5spd. Thanks for your content.
That’s a good question I’m actually not sure about that I’ll see if I can find out for you
What about hydraulic clutch setup? Do you still need the housing for the dot 4 fluid or switch to a regular clutch cable system?
I haven’t messed with hydraulic clutches so I honestly couldn’t say
Do the belts stretch over time the way chains do? Maybe that's when the idler gear would come into play if you're running a closed belt drive
Not in my experience. From what I’ve gathered it’s there for those who want to change tooth sizes and might end up with a little too much slack due to a smaller gear
I have a 79 shovelhead with a four speed trans electric start. I want to go open but how does the starter parts fit on
So you’ll have the same transmission I do. Actually, the stock photo I used for the section about closed primary setups is showing exactly what you’re planning to do. It shows the starter gear at the top right of the primary, meshing with that ring gear around the clutch basket.
As far as an install goes I don’t have a Shovelhead to film a video with but there may be other videos on UA-cam showing the install
Great video, anyone know if the 'closed primary 1.5" kits' work as open kits as i cant find the 1.5" for running open primary, they all say closed
I don’t want to overstate here because there may be some kits that don’t work but if you look at my kit, the one I leave the part number for at the end of the video, even that kit says “closed only”.
I think they’re just covering their legal bases honestly
@@greasesgarage I thought that might be the case but wasn't sure. Cheers for the reply
With an adjustable transmission plate is there a tension rule for the belt? Tight af or little movement??
Never tight AF, always movement. My personal preference is to be able to twist it beyond 45 degrees but not quite 90
Thank you..just subs from indonesia
Great video as always! I pretty new to the build game but loving it. I have a crate 99 EVO with an Ultima 6 speed on a bobber hardtail. I have been reading that the Mainshaft on the Ultima may be oversized compared to the OEM. Do you know anything about this? I want to run the same BDL-61-41 SK4 set up you have on your EVO. I could just call BDL but thought I would ask here first.
Thanks for checking out the video! I wish I knew more about those ultimas but I can’t say for sure that they’re the same, def best to call either ultima or BDL but ultima should be able to tell you whether it matches OEM
I swapped my stock EVO80 5-speed transmission for an Ultima 6-speed trans about a year ago, and they were identically sized. I'm also running a BDL open belt kit, but mine is a 3" belt. You shouldn't have any issues, unless something about your bike is different.
@Lochlann13 do you have a link on were you bought your kit? I'm running basically the same setup. 1988 evo with a 6speed Ultima kick only
What size chain are you using? I've found that, O-ring chains are pretty wide, making the added transmission bearing support hard to use.
530 o ring chain I believe, I can’t find the receipt for the purchase unfortunately
1.5”. 8mm, Open. Kick only. And that adjustable plate is a life saver. . My kind of dude lol and idk why the different millimeter crap either. Have a 8m on one and 11 on the other cause they dint have a 8 in stock.
The best setup 🙏🏼 and I agree man I just don’t get why it matters. 8mm seems to be the most common option tho so unless it’s outta stock I tell everyone just go 8. Glad to hear yours is working out!
@greasesgarage
Thanks for the video. I appreciate it. Im currently building a 47U with 80ci barrels, 4 speed late Panhead early Shovelhead transmission (case #34703-65) on a 1948 wishbone frame with lowered seat post and I have a set of Karata 1.5" - 13.8 mm open belt drive pulleys. I do need to get the belt. Do you know if 13.8 and 14 mm are interchangable? I also need the clutch package. Any recommendations?
Thanks in advanced!
Hey brotha, so for the belt I’d go straight to karata if they’re still in business and ask them which model belt you should run. Im not familiar with them personally.
As for the clutch I’m running a standard Shovelhead 5 finger clutch hub with drag specialties discs. The discs aren’t specific to dry clutch you just need new plates that haven’t seen any oil
@@greasesgarage Cheers. Will try to get ahold of Karata. I do have a set of new clutch discs in the shop and an old and tired clutch set up. Will see if everything fits togheter before ordering a new one.
Hi Grease, I installed a swap meet 1-1/2 inch closed primary on my 1978 shovelhead had to buy a new belt and need the bearing as belt was too loose, not sure uf I like it or not bike seems to serge at lower speeds and never did with chain drive ?
It could be that your drive ratio is different now with the pulleys that came on it, might be a little more low end torque than you had with the stock ratio. Could be solved by switching your rear or front chain sprockets to compensate. I find those are easier to find alternatives for and easier to change
Without the compensater its gonna surge at slow speeds
I never like or subscribe to any videos. But man I’m gonna build a fatboy chopper with an open primary and a kickstarter. Lol I’ll hit the thumbs up on greases videos!
I truly appreciate this man. Before I started UA-cam I rarely liked or commented on videos except a VERY small few so I’m honored to be in that list for you 🙏🏼
Hey grease I have the same setup of bike as you, rotary trans, kick only evo I’m desperately looking for the open primary setup you have is there any chance you could link it? Please
BDL part 61-41 SK4 is what I’m running. I bought it from Jp cycles but you can buy it from anywhere that sells that part number because I believe it’s outta stock on JP currently
Thank you very much!! So greatly appreciated!
I have a 3 inch belt drive and I am not giving it up for anybody.
Wished I had found this video a week or so ago before I bought a belt drive kit for my 92 FLHTP. Regardless, seems great minds think alike (or was it by pure dumb luck) I seemed to have gone through pretty much the same questing exercise that you offer in this video. Still need to do the install since I'm still sorting out the install instructions. I'm used to the shop manual approach and what came with the kit is a bit lacking imho.
I do have a question if you (or anyone else) is inclined to answer:
My 92 FLHTP is a police touring bike (similar to a 92 FLHTC) and as best as I can tell needs to have the inner primary installed as part of mounting the engine & tranny in the original swing arm frame. Is there a solution/work around for going full open belt primary?
Cheers
Sammy Getty
ps. I'm not building a chopper (or a bobber) just trying to keep the ole scooter as my daily ride without drinking the Motor Company's cool-aid.
Question for the group, the bike im building is a 1962 panhead and 4 speed tranny. All the support brackets say theyre for 1965 and up? Anyone got a link to what i should use for pre 1965?
I’ve heard a few people comment that the panhead doesn’t require this bracket, I can do some digging and try to confirm whether that’s true
@greasesgarage researching more into it. I believe that's correct. Looking at transmission options, the points where the bracket would bolt isnt even there. I believe it isnt needed because of the shorter transmission shaft on the panheads. Looking at videos, people arent using them.
@ZF5foraWhiteGuy mystery solved! Thanks for confirming! Only needed for Shovelheads and evos then
u dont ues and cant ues that bearing suport on 64 and earlyer there main shafts are shorter i tryed a phase 3 miney yrs. ago on a dresser belt was way to tight there was no way to losen up so i toke it off been running chain every since works great !!!!! GREAT VIDEO to help riders HAPPY TRAILS
Thanks for this info I appreciate you sharing 🙏🏼
Yes, that’s why I came to this comment section because when I heard him say you need the support bracket with an open primary, it made no sense to me on my Panhead. So that comment really only applies to shovel ahead and later guess and I wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy..
What about the sportster evo not just the big twin??
That will need its own video as those are a lot less common and the kits do not follow the rules laid out in this video. I’ll need to see if those kits are even available these days.
Evolution industries was the only one I remember hearing about and they were 2,500-3000 bucks.
It’s hard on a sportster because you need to seal the transmission, it’s not a separate engine and trans like it is on the big twin so going open is a lot more costly.
@@greasesgarage Honestly, I'd say it's almost worth waiting and saving up for a used Softail, rather than trying to convert a Sportster to open primary.
@Lochlann13 100% agree. This open primary difficulty is mentioned in my “best first bike for a chopper” video as a con of the sportster. Kickstart conversion is expensive and open primary is even more expensive. We all tend to love both so sometimes it’s worth waiting it out for a big twin for that flexibility down the road
I've been running a BDL 3" Open primary for over 14 years on my 78 flh bobber, kick start only.
And it's been trouble-free the entire time.
I did extend my floor boards, though 1" forward and 1" out just for peace of mind.
Now that I am thinking about it, it's probably time to change the belt again. It's been four years since I put a new one on.
That’s some awesome first hand testimony to hear, thanks man. I hope to get the same lifespan out of mine. Two years now with the same belt and it still looks like it’s fresh outta the box
@greasesgarage
You already know the key to long belt life, I'm sure.
Keep proper tension and keep it clean.
It's amazing how long it will last.
The same goes for the chain and sprockets, I always preferred a quality O-ring chain.
My last one was a Drag Specialties, and it's held up well, only 1.5 years ago, and still appears to be fine as well as the sprockets, no uneven wear at all.
I do have my crankcase vent hose routed over the chain, though, and the fine mist keeps everything from corroding.
But it also does collect dust and road grime.
A WD-40 wash takes care of that, though.
@rjoetting7594 great tips man, this is an excellent list for anybody reading to follow. Take care of your components!
I run a belt drive on my shovel but still have the primary cover. Wanting to open it and run a jockey shift and remove that ugly starter and solenoid.
It’s so much cleaner without it, go for it!
I could use some help man you seem smart but I just don't quite know what to get for mine I wanna do the simple 1.5 inch closed system and i have a 1994 harley sportster 1200cc with a 5 speed tranny. Also I have mid controls 😬 am I screwed or am I in luck. 😅
Anyways thanks for any advice from anyone.
I don’t believe they make these kits for sportsters
So it's gotta be a dyna or bigger huh ? Bummer. I mean I get it it's cause how the sportster tranny is kinda part of the engine in a way.
Ground on the side of the cover, inside was ok.
Thank you 🙏🏼 good to know
4in or bust
Stop it lol
Stick with an inch size we're familiar with on a daily basis! 😎💪
@Thezakwarmannshow hahaha
just divide 61 by 41 and you get 1.487 so the engine will turn 1.487 times to the clutch drums 1 time. The number of teeth on the belt dont matter
Great info thank you!
8mm can't use a tensioner (idler)... There is not enough meat on the back of the belt. 11mm only.... That's straight from BDL. You won't see any 8mm kits with an idler anyway... They also said that 8mm belts are more reliable.
This is excellent info thank you! Read up people, great stuff in the comments
BDL sent me transfer heat kit last week, I believe its something new, I d like to send you a photo.
Greasesgarage@gmail.com
As a big fat american republican gun lover i go big or go home thats mean 4 inch open belt 14mm.